where's the reward?

[Peppto]

I am a (curently) 87 warden on the najena server. I took a 7 month break from the game to do things irl. Since I've been back I've made some observations(ones that I'm sure, have been pointed out before but I'm just gonna say it anyways)

When it comes to leveling in this game it's become VERY monotonous. Where is the reward from leveling?? I mean, sure there's the obvious, cash, reaching 90, but seriously, past a certain level in this game(I think it's lvl 22 or so) all reward from lvlin goes down the crapper, repetetive items with repetetive looks none of which is suitable to wear on your character, basically a ton of vender fodder, why not just cut the crap and give you money for all the quests? There's next to no interesting storylines and the FEW socalled cinematics in the game are so bland that if I didn't know better I'd think they hired ben stien to produce them. This game has some wicked grfx particle effects voice actors, potential for some very elaborate scenes, it could make some real mind blowing cinematics on the game grfx alone, but completely fails to do so. (Example: I was almost bored to death watching that 'cinematic' for the panda stoyline, bleh)

It just seems to me that everything is aimed into the grind to get to top lvl, then you can have some real fun but until then it's mostly 'run here' kill 10 of these, run back' 'run here, click this, run back' about 5000 different variations of that with lame reasoning for doing it.

Back before the expantions and even up to the kos(kingdom of sky) expantion, there was some wicked fun to be had, everyone grouped to get things done, allot more of the content was heroic, but from eof(echo's of faydower) on, things have been all about questing to reach top lvl. I know I know, gonna get burned for this at some point, the game IS called everquest, but still, it's lacking in fun factor before top level, if I was somehow stumped and couldnt make it past 89 for some reason( a glitch persay for the sake of argument) I would not feel rewarded in the least for having made it that far, I'd be quite disappointed.

Things that could fix this are:

Crazy good cinematics

Cross server dungeon finder(the ability to get a dungeon group at any level/time)

More mandatory heroic content in the last level stretch of the game(at least until the majority are top level)

A more interesting and elaborate storyline that focuses some of the leveling quests appon reaching a primary goal.

Any more suggestions are welcome.

[sandwarrior]

in before lock

[feldon30]

Kunark's group content was 77-80. TSO' group content was 80-80. SF's group content is 83-90. And it has content that, at level 88-90, can be done by 2-3 people. I consider that an improvement.

[d1anaw]

Peppto@Najena wrote:

I am a (curently) 87 warden on the najena server. I took a 7 month break from the game to do things irl. Since I've been back I've made some observations(ones that I'm sure, have been pointed out before but I'm just gonna say it anyways)

When it comes to leveling in this game it's become VERY monotonous. Where is the reward from leveling?? I mean, sure there's the obvious, cash, reaching 90, but seriously, past a certain level in this game(I think it's lvl 22 or so) all reward from lvlin goes down the crapper, repetetive items with repetetive looks none of which is suitable to wear on your character, basically a ton of vender fodder, why not just cut the crap and give you money for all the quests? There's next to no interesting storylines and the FEW socalled cinematics in the game are so bland that if I didn't know better I'd think they hired ben stien to produce them. This game has some wicked grfx particle effects voice actors, potential for some very elaborate scenes, it could make some real mind blowing cinematics on the game grfx alone, but completely fails to do so. (Example: I was almost bored to death watching that 'cinematic' for the panda stoyline, bleh)

It just seems to me that everything is aimed into the grind to get to top lvl, then you can have some real fun but until then it's mostly 'run here' kill 10 of these, run back' 'run here, click this, run back' about 5000 different variations of that with lame reasoning for doing it.

Back before the expantions and even up to the kos(kingdom of sky) expantion, there was some wicked fun to be had, everyone grouped to get things done, allot more of the content was heroic, but from eof(echo's of faydower) on, things have been all about questing to reach top lvl. I know I know, gonna get burned for this at some point, the game IS called everquest, but still, it's lacking in fun factor before top level, if I was somehow stumped and couldnt make it past 89 for some reason( a glitch persay for the sake of argument) I would not feel rewarded in the least for having made it that far, I'd be quite disappointed.

Things that could fix this are:

Crazy good cinematics

Cross server dungeon finder(the ability to get a dungeon group at any level/time)

More mandatory heroic content in the last level stretch of the game(at least until the majority are top level)

A more interesting and elaborate storyline that focuses some of the leveling quests appon reaching a primary goal.

Any more suggestions are welcome.

I always wonder why people who are so miserable playing the game are playing it anyway. There are other things to do.

[CoLD MeTaL]

d1anaw wrote:

I always wonder why people who are so miserable playing the game are playing it anyway. There are other things to do.

Well sure i could work some more.  And to be honest the gym has been gettin more of my free time, but it closes at 9pm.  TV is just useless, 5 min of programming for every 6 min of commercials.

Since heroic 'group' zones have turned into mini raids, and the gear fairy took all the resists off of gear in zones, it does make sense to ask uh 'where's the reward?'

Only people finding upgrades right now are, you guessed it, raiders.

[Reapicheap]

d1anaw wrote:

I always wonder why people who are so miserable playing the game are playing it anyway. There are other things to do.

My curiosity is why are people who are miserable playing a game with a subscription fee still continuing to pay the fee and play?  The only answer I can come up with is masochism.  Either that or their lying about being unhappy with the game and just posting to cause forum drama.  Either way, the answer is the same, drop their account to prevent them form posting.

Just my 2cp.

[Kaita]

Peppto@Najena wrote:

I am a (curently) 87 warden on the najena server. I took a 7 month break from the game to do things irl. Since I've been back I've made some observations(ones that I'm sure, have been pointed out before but I'm just gonna say it anyways)

When it comes to leveling in this game it's become VERY monotonous. Where is the reward from leveling?? I mean, sure there's the obvious, cash, reaching 90, but seriously, past a certain level in this game(I think it's lvl 22 or so) all reward from lvlin goes down the crapper, repetetive items with repetetive looks none of which is suitable to wear on your character, basically a ton of vender fodder, why not just cut the crap and give you money for all the quests? There's next to no interesting storylines and the FEW socalled cinematics in the game are so bland that if I didn't know better I'd think they hired ben stien to produce them. This game has some wicked grfx particle effects voice actors, potential for some very elaborate scenes, it could make some real mind blowing cinematics on the game grfx alone, but completely fails to do so. (Example: I was almost bored to death watching that 'cinematic' for the panda stoyline, bleh)

It just seems to me that everything is aimed into the grind to get to top lvl, then you can have some real fun but until then it's mostly 'run here' kill 10 of these, run back' 'run here, click this, run back' about 5000 different variations of that with lame reasoning for doing it.

Back before the expantions and even up to the kos(kingdom of sky) expantion, there was some wicked fun to be had, everyone grouped to get things done, allot more of the content was heroic, but from eof(echo's of faydower) on, things have been all about questing to reach top lvl. I know I know, gonna get burned for this at some point, the game IS called everquest, but still, it's lacking in fun factor before top level, if I was somehow stumped and couldnt make it past 89 for some reason( a glitch persay for the sake of argument) I would not feel rewarded in the least for having made it that far, I'd be quite disappointed.

Things that could fix this are:

Crazy good cinematics

This isn't Final Fantasy 3,

Cross server dungeon finder(the ability to get a dungeon group at any level/time)

This would be helpful at lowbie levels, And they have said in the past its something they are wanting to do.

More mandatory heroic content in the last level stretch of the game(at least until the majority are top level)

I don't see how "Mandatory" content makes the game more or less fun.

A more interesting and elaborate storyline that focuses some of the leveling quests appon reaching a primary goal.

You don't like helping Pandas?

I'm not sure why you think you need to Rush to 90 then enjoy the content. You can get into the hardest Zones at a minimum level of 85. You have plenty of Heroic zones to explore on your way up to 90.

[Obadiah]

Kaita@Nagafen wrote:

A more interesting and elaborate storyline that focuses some of the leveling quests appon reaching a primary goal.

You don't like helping Pandas?

TBH, the way it's implemented and written, all I want to do is kill pandas. The most ill-concieved quest series time sink ever consisting of 1-quest-at-a-time running all over garbage totally ruined what otherwise might have been a decent bit of lore. Permission to kill a hua-mein without instead being warped across the zone whenever I hit one would constitute a suitable 'reward' IMO.

Although, that DOES make a decent evac.

Ironic that the OP says "from EoF on" when EoF was more focused on low-level content than max level. There was next to nothing for max level toons.

[Carthr]

Peppto@Najena wrote:

 Where is the reward from leveling??

They send it in the mail...  It's a small Jack-in-the-box, that when it pop's out a little flag that reads "PWN'D YOU NOOB" comes out of the dudes mouth..

That's the reward.

[DngrMou]

Carthrax wrote:

Peppto@Najena wrote:

 Where is the reward from leveling??

They send it in the mail...  It's a small Jack-in-the-box, that when it pop's out a little flag that reads "PWN'D YOU NOOB" comes out of the dudes mouth..

That's the reward.

You also get a little swagger in your step.  A sense of accompliment is emailed to the lucky recipients later on.

[Carthr]

And don't forget the chicks really dig lvl 90's... /flex

[Rainmare]

I can tell your prolly somewhat young, with terms like 'crazy good' in your post. I love how you contradict yourself to. you wanted quests to have a storyline...but you hate the Hua Mein line. the whole line is tied into you basically going back and all the things you did before that exposed them, you get rid of. thier races survival depends on the Erudites believing they wiped them out.

people complained about 'mandatory' heroic content. people complained about Epic/heroic mobs in overland zones. hence you don't see it anymore, because the vocal minority yelled the loudest.

and usually, an expansions 'story' IS explained in a questline. a Signature quest line. those being Pristmaic, Godking, Claymore, Soulfire, Fate of Norrath, Ethernaught, and in Sf there are 2 of them, one about Dartain(giving the general overlay of Odus itself) and 'in search of lucan' (raid based that talks about Theer and the Overlord's abduction)

many of the quests in SF tie together with how the erudites do things, how they moved from god worshipping to being devoted to knowledge and 'science'...and the disaster that became of the Farsian Nexus.

Every themed dungeon in TSO had a questline that went through it, talking about the dungeon itself. in RoK most of the lines talked about the strife between the various 'factions' in an area. TG against the Sathirian/Chardok empires, the Kunzar jungle factions vying for attention/protection/recognition from Sebilis, or helping various individuals with ther personal desires. Sel'nok vs Ganak and the interests of the Skorpkis, being the Durus clan against the Skelross.

Then you got the Rime, and thier alliance with Rile to find items of power on Kunark.

and I wager your idea of 'crazy good' cinematics are the entirely CGI type ones you see in Final Fantasy type console games, right? well those cinematics take a LONG time to make. trust me, I've done that kinda work in college. woudl you like to delay an expansion or a game update by 6+ months so you can get 2 or 3 30 second 'crazy good' animations with voice overs? not to mention actors like christopher lee (Lucan) I'm sure are NOT cheap to get into that studio.

[Obadiah]

Rainmare@Oasis wrote:

I can tell your prolly somewhat young, with terms like 'crazy good' in your post. I love how you contradict yourself to. you wanted quests to have a storyline...but you hate the Hua Mein line. the whole line is tied into you basically going back and all the things you did before that exposed them, you get rid of. thier races survival depends on the Erudites believing they wiped them out.

The OP didn't say he hated the Hua Mein storyline, just that the cinematic was dull.

*I* hated that storyline. I'm including the Dartain-Stonebrunt series leading up to it as the same thing. The unprecedented tedium of that series that made the game World of Walking. The port location for Jintu's Gift being strategically placed as far away as possible from quest-givers was the last straw. It's enough to make me want to finish what the Erudites started.

Not to mention it is ridiculous; they aren't hidden at all. You've got what, 25-30 pandas outdoors, clearly visible from above, where the erudite airships and travel discs constantly fly. Yeah, good luck on that hiding thing, fellas. Sure hope no other group of pandas goes and blows the whole thing by not hiding at all ... oh, wait. Drat!

[Qandor]

Seriously though, if you are going to make a cinematic as awful as the panda cinematic with awful music to match, next time just leave it out. Not that any cinematic they have ever done in this game was ever worth the view. They have all been pretty poor to terrible.

[BetaEQ]

d1anaw wrote:

Peppto@Najena wrote:

I am a (curently) 87 warden on the najena server. I took a 7 month break from the game to do things irl. Since I've been back I've made some observations(ones that I'm sure, have been pointed out before but I'm just gonna say it anyways)

When it comes to leveling in this game it's become VERY monotonous. Where is the reward from leveling?? I mean, sure there's the obvious, cash, reaching 90, but seriously, past a certain level in this game(I think it's lvl 22 or so) all reward from lvlin goes down the crapper, repetetive items with repetetive looks none of which is suitable to wear on your character, basically a ton of vender fodder, why not just cut the crap and give you money for all the quests? There's next to no interesting storylines and the FEW socalled cinematics in the game are so bland that if I didn't know better I'd think they hired ben stien to produce them. This game has some wicked grfx particle effects voice actors, potential for some very elaborate scenes, it could make some real mind blowing cinematics on the game grfx alone, but completely fails to do so. (Example: I was almost bored to death watching that 'cinematic' for the panda stoyline, bleh)

It just seems to me that everything is aimed into the grind to get to top lvl, then you can have some real fun but until then it's mostly 'run here' kill 10 of these, run back' 'run here, click this, run back' about 5000 different variations of that with lame reasoning for doing it.

Back before the expantions and even up to the kos(kingdom of sky) expantion, there was some wicked fun to be had, everyone grouped to get things done, allot more of the content was heroic, but from eof(echo's of faydower) on, things have been all about questing to reach top lvl. I know I know, gonna get burned for this at some point, the game IS called everquest, but still, it's lacking in fun factor before top level, if I was somehow stumped and couldnt make it past 89 for some reason( a glitch persay for the sake of argument) I would not feel rewarded in the least for having made it that far, I'd be quite disappointed.

Things that could fix this are:

Crazy good cinematics

Cross server dungeon finder(the ability to get a dungeon group at any level/time)

More mandatory heroic content in the last level stretch of the game(at least until the majority are top level)

A more interesting and elaborate storyline that focuses some of the leveling quests appon reaching a primary goal.

Any more suggestions are welcome.

I always wonder why people who are so miserable playing the game are playing it anyway. There are other things to do.

                          Same reason folk's stay married after that first argument or dont just move cause there house is dirty.This isnt Pacman or Pong.The game is shipped and its done.It's allways expanding and changing.The folk's that complain bring that change.Just cause dude isnt drinking the koolaid and drooling over himself how great SOE is. Dosent mean they are miserable in the game.Far from it he is puting in his time to help them improve it.

                         Like the poster I dont see many story line rewards this expansion.From Flawless, Mythical's, Claymore,Soufire,Shadow Odysey chp quest,Ethernaunt's collection,White dragonscale cloak,Dark mail gloves, etc.Thing's that took real time to do and maybe you used for a time.Where you needed a guild or atleast a good group to accomplish.

                          I also hope some instance dungeons are made, similiar to battlegrounds for PVE.

[Rainmare]

the instanced dungeon is the Hole.

there's teh heritage for JoJo...kinda of an interesting story....there's information about the kobolds from digging in the dirt heritage, and I rather liked the story for the paw of opalla (tome of malediction). the Footsteps of Dartain line is the 'ethernaught' type line for this expansion, while 'In search of Lucan' is the 'raid version' of a sig line. the dartain line has some interesting things to learn in it as well.

and I'll wager you haven't gotten all 4 of the runes of fate collection either.

and I don't know about you, ut I never used the white dragonscale cloak, or the dark mail gauntlets...in fact, I haven't used virtually any of the heritage quest rewards except the tinkerer bag, the fishbone earring, and the manastone.

[BetaEQ]

Rainmare@Oasis wrote:

the instanced dungeon is the Hole.

there's teh heritage for JoJo...kinda of an interesting story....there's information about the kobolds from digging in the dirt heritage, and I rather liked the story for the paw of opalla (tome of malediction). the Footsteps of Dartain line is the 'ethernaught' type line for this expansion, while 'In search of Lucan' is the 'raid version' of a sig line. the dartain line has some interesting things to learn in it as well.

and I'll wager you haven't gotten all 4 of the runes of fate collection either.

and I don't know about you, ut I never used the white dragonscale cloak, or the dark mail gauntlets...in fact, I haven't used virtually any of the heritage quest rewards except the tinkerer bag, the fishbone earring, and the manastone.

                        Not sure what you mean.Instance dungeon in the hole isnt cross server.Like Battleground's is.Id like for EQ2 to work out instanced dungeons for PVE that are cross server.

                        Those are just quest to do.The rewards arnt really something youed equip.Though JoJo was used till it was nerfed.Yes I did use cloak and gaunlets on my chanter till I got my 5th or 6th pc from TSO.Seen some healer's also use gaunlet's early on in the expansion.At least you got some use out of it.Then just a quest to do with no reward.

[Peppto]

Ok, I'm just gonna come right out and say it, I know allota people are gonna [Removed for Content] and flame the second I mention the wretched game, but it must be done, because those who have played it recently and seen what there is to come, know exactly what I mean.

Here goes WOW, yes world of warcraft, that game with it craptastic grfx pulled off at least one pretty wicked cool(yes I speak 10 year old, I'm 29 fyi, so sue me, I'ma gamer ) cinematic, and it was using ingame grfx, not CGI, if wow can pull if off, I think eq2 should be able to do 10 fold, that panda thing just [Removed for Content] me off, it was slow, pathetic, boring lacked special effects and a good background scene.

And for everyone's information(all the flamers and trolls) the guy 3 posts before this one was right on the money.(please read it before posting)

For those who have mentioned the hole, ya.. the infamous 'hole grinds' tbh I wouldn't mind doing that even, but everyone is so hopped up on the BG's that I've found it near imposible the last couple times I've been on with my 87 warden, to get a hole group, and when a healer cant get a group, ya know something needs tweeking (used to be that I couldnt even log my templar without getting an invite, if not from friends then from random people) I truely do not believe the grouping situation will improve untill we either get the cross server dungeon thing going, or trash the BG's, and I'm pretty sure that one aint gonna happen, lol. (oh, small fyi, I love pvp, but in small doses, cant stand grinding bg's)

Another thing, tied to that cinematic in wow(which btw, for those that havn't seen it, was something like a reanactment of the wicked big war in the second lord of the rings movie)anywho, it was tied into the whole storyline for the lich king, who happens to be the main enemy you are trying to beat, so much lore, storylines, quests, dungeons and raids were built around achieving a common goal(defeating the lich king) 

I have not seen anything like that in eq2, ever, the quests mostly involve stuff like, 'can you run over to the other side of the map, it appears I'm [yet another] clumsy oaf who droped a buncha crap over there and you need to pick it up, I will reward you with default treasured item even though nobody in their right mind on the face of norrath actually uses treasured items anymore'  and I'm thinking, GEE wow, THX! I can get [default treasured item] Just for doing that.. /faint.

In closing I'd just like to say, I think that pretty much makes my point, the oh so common thing I just decribed does not infuse me with great exitement at the thought of renewing my sub next month.

Edit: I forgot to mention what's coming in wow's next expantion(meant to mention a couple thingd as an example of what wow puts into it's expantions that eq2 does not) In the next wow expantion they are redoing the entire oldworld content, all of it, it's going to be ripped assunder by a great dragon, that is the kinda thing I do not see in eq2, at most they will move some mobs around in an update, nothing too epic about that.

But as a real final closing word, the thing eq2 has been slacking on bigtime since the implementation of voice emotes, is FUN CONTENT, sorry to say, but eq2 could lean allot from wow in that department,  I ran a raid in wow where I got to drive a tank through it (it was actually much more detailed then that, but that was the jest of it) I love this game, the grfx are sweet, the race/class selection cannot be beat(litterally, I have not seen another game do it) but it's gotten rough around the edges, less grind more fun, kk thx.

[d1anaw]

Peppto@Najena wrote:

Ok, I'm just gonna come right out and say it, I know allota people are gonna [Removed for Content] and flame the second I mention the wretched game, but it must be done, because those who have played it recently and seen what there is to come, know exactly what I mean.

Here goes WOW, yes world of warcraft, that game with it craptastic grfx pulled off at least one pretty wicked cool(yes I speak 10 year old, I'm 29 fyi, so sue me, I'ma gamer ) cinematic, and it was using ingame grfx, not CGI, if wow can pull if off, I think eq2 should be able to do 10 fold, that panda thing just [Removed for Content] me off, it was slow, pathetic, boring lacked special effects and a good background scene.

And for everyone's information(all the flamers and trolls) the guy 3 posts before this one was right on the money.(please read it before posting)

For those who have mentioned the hole, ya.. the infamous 'hole grinds' tbh I wouldn't mind doing that even, but everyone is so hopped up on the BG's that I've found it near imposible the last couple times I've been on with my 87 warden, to get a hole group, and when a healer cant get a group, ya know something needs tweeking (used to be that I couldnt even log my templar without getting an invite, if not from friends then from random people) I truely do not believe the grouping situation will improve untill we either get the cross server dungeon thing going, or trash the BG's, and I'm pretty sure that one aint gonna happen, lol. (oh, small fyi, I love pvp, but in small doses, cant stand grinding bg's)

Another thing, tied to that cinematic in wow(which btw, for those that havn't seen it, was something like a reanactment of the wicked big war in the second lord of the rings movie)anywho, it was tied into the whole storyline for the lich king, who happens to be the main enemy you are trying to beat, so much lore, storylines, quests, dungeons and raids were built around achieving a common goal(defeating the lich king) 

I have not seen anything like that in eq2, ever, the quests mostly involve stuff like, 'can you run over to the other side of the map, it appears I'm [yet another] clumsy oaf who droped a buncha crap over there and you need to pick it up, I will reward you with default treasured item even though nobody in their right mind on the face of norrath actually uses treasured items anymore'  and I'm thinking, GEE wow, THX! I can get [default treasured item] Just for doing that.. /faint.

In closing I'd just like to say, I think that pretty much makes my point, the oh so common thing I just decribed does not infuse me with great exitement at the thought of renewing my sub next month.

Edit: I forgot to mention what's coming in wow's next expantion(meant to mention a couple thingd as an example of what wow puts into it's expantions that eq2 does not) In the next wow expantion they are redoing the entire oldworld content, all of it, it's going to be ripped assunder by a great dragon, that is the kinda thing I do not see in eq2, at most they will move some mobs around in an update, nothing too epic about that.

But as a real final closing word, the thing eq2 has been slacking on bigtime since the implementation of voice emotes, is FUN CONTENT, sorry to say, but eq2 could lean allot from wow in that department,  I ran a raid in wow where I got to drive a tank through it (it was actually much more detailed then that, but that was the jest of it) I love this game, the grfx are sweet, the race/class selection cannot be beat(litterally, I have not seen another game do it) but it's gotten rough around the edges, less grind more fun, kk thx.

It seems to me, that the best way to solve your "problem" is to go play WOW. If it is so "not fun" for you, then why play? The whole point of GAMES is entertainment, not a lifestyle. If it's not fun, don't play. Play something else, get a life, do something else. It makes no sense to do something that makes you unhappy if you don't have to in order to put a roof over your head or food on your table. Everything can be improved. Nothing is perfect. Some things that are done are liked by people some are not. It doesn't mean everything should change to accomodate the idiocyncries of some. If you don't like something, don't do it. It's really not complicated. When you continue to do things you hate, then you are just complaining for the sake of complaining.

[Wingrider01]

CoLD MeTaL wrote:

d1anaw wrote:

I always wonder why people who are so miserable playing the game are playing it anyway. There are other things to do.

Well sure i could work some more.  And to be honest the gym has been gettin more of my free time, but it closes at 9pm.  TV is just useless, 5 min of programming for every 6 min of commercials.

Since heroic 'group' zones have turned into mini raids, and the gear fairy took all the resists off of gear in zones, it does make sense to ask uh 'where's the reward?'

Only people finding upgrades right now are, you guessed it, raiders.

kind of interesting comment, gear on most of my characters was obtained from the single group instances and the vendor armor, some of it is raid from both current and previous tiers. Have a couple of characters that have done very little raiding at all (not one of the desired raid classes) and they do pretty decent in single group instances and solo - not one bit of raid gear. The group and solo gear have been upgrade to what they where using prior

Not quite sure what you mean about "mini raids" never heard of the term - unless you are speaking of the X2 raid zones, other then that all instances can only have 6 in the group, so would not classiy them as a "mini-raid", would be interesting in seeing your validation on this subject.

[Rijacki]

Wingrider01 wrote:

CoLD MeTaL wrote:

d1anaw wrote:

I always wonder why people who are so miserable playing the game are playing it anyway. There are other things to do.

Well sure i could work some more.  And to be honest the gym has been gettin more of my free time, but it closes at 9pm.  TV is just useless, 5 min of programming for every 6 min of commercials.

Since heroic 'group' zones have turned into mini raids, and the gear fairy took all the resists off of gear in zones, it does make sense to ask uh 'where's the reward?'

Only people finding upgrades right now are, you guessed it, raiders.

kind of interesting comment, gear on most of my characters was obtained from the single group instances and the vendor armor, some of it is raid from both current and previous tiers. Have a couple of characters that have done very little raiding at all (not one of the desired raid classes) and they do pretty decent in single group instances and solo - not one bit of raid gear. The group and solo gear have been upgrade to what they where using prior

Not quite sure what you mean about "mini raids" never heard of the term - unless you are speaking of the X2 raid zones, other then that all instances can only have 6 in the group, so would not classiy them as a "mini-raid", would be interesting in seeing your validation on this subject.

Going on his past posts about the TSO heroic instances, his designation of mini-raids are anything that's not a simple tank and spank. If a Named fight requires you to do anything other than stand and hit it (i.e. click a button at a specific time, joust in-out for AEs, cure curses/detrimentals, stop fighting a certain times, etc), it's a "mini-raid".

[simbul316]

Peppto@Najena wrote

Cross server dungeon finder(the ability to get a dungeon group at any level/time)

Just to comment on this factor, as good of an idea as it seems on paper, it takes a lot out of the game.  For me, one of the main draws to any MMO is the social aspect of the game.  Implementing a dungeon finder will take a lot of the social aspect out of the game.  No one would need to chat anymore, and things would just become a dungeon grind.  I have seen it happen, and while at first it was great, the novelty wore off and it killed the game for me. 

[Edavi]

The fact of the matter is the game doesnt start until level 90.  It gets fun at 90.  Level 89 is no different than level 15, they both suck.

My GF just started playing, she leveled a toon to the mid 30s and then got tired of the same thing over and over.  I cant blame her.  She said all she wants is to be able to play with me and lots of people.  That really isnt an option at level 30.  So were in the process of PLing a toon for her so she can actually start the game.

EQ1 was a fantastic game.  The more EQ2 strays from EQ1 the worse it gets.  Of course that is my optinion, but the game just gets easier and easier and easier and easier.  Every patch is making SOMETHING easier than it was.  I personally blame WoW.

it makes every level trivial and boring until you reach the top.  sigh, I miss that game, but I got bored one day and resubbed my eq1.  Guess what, they made it easy mode too.

[Brigh]

CoLD MeTaL wrote:

d1anaw wrote:

I always wonder why people who are so miserable playing the game are playing it anyway. There are other things to do.

Well sure i could work some more.  And to be honest the gym has been gettin more of my free time, but it closes at 9pm.  TV is just useless, 5 min of programming for every 6 min of commercials. Commercials? What commercials? (a certain..."easy tv" torrent/magnet site)

Since heroic 'group' zones have turned into mini raids, and the gear fairy took all the resists off of gear in zones, it does make sense to ask uh 'where's the reward?'

Only people finding upgrades right now are, you guessed it, raiders.

[Reapicheap]

simbul316 wrote:

Peppto@Najena wrote

Cross server dungeon finder(the ability to get a dungeon group at any level/time)

Just to comment on this factor, as good of an idea as it seems on paper, it takes a lot out of the game.  For me, one of the main draws to any MMO is the social aspect of the game.  Implementing a dungeon finder will take a lot of the social aspect out of the game.  No one would need to chat anymore, and things would just become a dungeon grind.  I have seen it happen, and while at first it was great, the novelty wore off and it killed the game for me. 

You'd think that might be the case, but honestly, it doesn't happen that way.  If anything, people become more social, and if you find someone on another server who's particularly good at playing, you can actually chat with them using:

/t ({game.}){server}.{name} {msg}

(Where {game.} is another game, like EQ, though this is just for chat, not invites to group, cause that would be wierd.  Channels already work like this, and you can /join another servers version of a channel (not the globals) the same way, too.)

What they need to do in addition to that is make it so you can selectively invite people from other servers to group for an instance, thus increasing yourpotential social interactions without requiring people to switch servers, re-roll, etc, unless they really want to.  It's less disruptive, and th options stay open for more traditional character moves while allowing people from all over the game community to interact with one another socially in instances.

Really, a cross-server LFG tool is a good thing for social interaction.  You get to meet new friends and you can stay in touch with them after you've finished the dungeon.  It what we call a win-win.

[simbul316]

If you could actually chat cross server/game, that would be cool.  The experience i had was that you couldn't even chat with people from other servers unless you were currently in the group.  That added additional anonymity, made it so people didn't care what they said or did, cause they most likely wouldn't see you again.  That would be my only concern.  Being able to find a group almost instantly would rock, as long as it didn't come at the expense of the community

[Peppto]

Believe me, it'd liven up the social aspect of the game regardless, cuz sittin around shouting lfg till ur toon is blue in the face sure as hell aint social, but very common unless you're one of the lucky ones to be in a guild of folks that will do anything they can to help you level, and the closest guild I was in, said they would but never did.(speaking in terms of the past few expantions, before that, things were a little more lively, but as the solo questing improved and the heroc content was phased outta the picture and pushed into the dungeons/instances, 'social' kinda went down the crapper)

That is why mandatory heroic content in the last stretch of the game would improve the social aspect of the game, back when the oldworld was all there was and in order to hit 50, you had to fight through buttloads of heroc mobs, everyone grouped, solo was merely a thing to do if you were waitin for a friend to loggon or somesuch, now it's the other way around, grouping is something you do if you just happen to be holding the lucky number when they call out the group raffle(right class/lvl) don't get me wrong, the option to solo should still be there, some people cant stand to group all the time, or just dont have the time. But last I checked, this was an mmo, not a single player game, I personally don't pay 15 bux a month to play solo.

And on that note, necros need a major tuneup, I'm hearing left and right about it being a 'solo class' now, why on earth does a solo class exist in an mmo, what's the point.. boost this class and give it some winnning dps,  the uber raid necros can go on all they want about how the necro class can dps with the best of them, but that isnt what I'm hearing from the majority, I've seen a guardian crank out 20k dps on the rok expantion, that don't mean that hardly anyone else is capable of that. On a realistic non hardcore 5-6 year necro vet player standard, the necro is horrid dps compared to the other dps classes out there and that makes me sad, cuz I used to be able to top the parse on my necro before lifeburn was even around, now it's not the case.

[Obadiah]

Peppto@Najena wrote:

Believe me, it'd liven up the social aspect of the game regardless, cuz sittin around shouting lfg till ur toon is blue in the face sure as hell aint social, but very common unless you're one of the lucky ones to be in a guild of folks that will do anything they can to help you level, and the closest guild I was in, said they would but never did.(speaking in terms of the past few expantions, before that, things were a little more lively, but as the solo questing improved and the heroc content was phased outta the picture and pushed into the dungeons/instances, 'social' kinda went down the crapper)

That is why mandatory heroic content in the last stretch of the game would improve the social aspect of the game, back when the oldworld was all there was and in order to hit 50, you had to fight through buttloads of heroc mobs, everyone grouped, solo was merely a thing to do if you were waitin for a friend to loggon or somesuch, now it's the other way around, grouping is something you do if you just happen to be holding the lucky number when they call out the group raffle(right class/lvl) don't get me wrong, the option to solo should still be there, some people cant stand to group all the time, or just dont have the time. But last I checked, this was an mmo, not a single player game, I personally don't pay 15 bux a month to play solo.

And on that note, necros need a major tuneup, I'm hearing left and right about it being a 'solo class' now, why on earth does a solo class exist in an mmo, what's the point.. boost this class and give it some winnning dps,  the uber raid necros can go on all they want about how the necro class can dps with the best of them, but that isnt what I'm hearing from the majority, I've seen a guardian crank out 20k dps on the rok expantion, that don't mean that hardly anyone else is capable of that. On a realistic non hardcore 5-6 year necro vet player standard, the necro is horrid dps compared to the other dps classes out there and that makes me sad, cuz I used to be able to top the parse on my necro before lifeburn was even around, now it's not the case.

Necros have the DPS capacity, the problem is they are "high maintenance" DPS. If you could get the same DPS from another class ... and not have to constantly heal it ... well, I guess I'd take the other class. That sums them up IMO. But even when they were top-notch DPS in KoS, there were bad Necros. Summoners just aren't the easiest to play., and Necros are more dependant on others than Conjurors.

People tend to lose sight of how much of their DPS comes from other people. Always love the self-congratulating tank that fails to acknowledge that 25% of his DPS was me. The totals themselves mean very little, and don't tell you a thing about the player IMO.

The reason grouping sort of went out the window is that level makes such a difference. Challenging content means content that's >90. Level 85 toons can enter the zones ... but they then get carried through by the level 89-90s. Anything <90 is easy, and gets duoed or even soloed before long. So there's very little of it. There has to be a solo path to get people to 90 ASAP. It sucks. TBH, while I don't generally enjoy BGs anymore, it's a great way for 80-89 toons to all group together.  An equivalent in the PVE world would be cool; and no ... scaling instances and making them drop garbage when scaled doesn't count.

I agree with you, but I don't know what the solution is. I know what it's NOT. It's NOT making the final, climactic quest in a trio of difficult heroic zones a pile of garbage that allows groups to totally roadblock themselves and violates years of established mechanics.

I don't like WoW, but I have to admit some of those fights are pretty fun. The biggest difference to me is ... when they do something funky or different and totally off-the-wall, whether you love it or hate it ... it WORKS.

[Peppto]

Well from what you are saying with the having to heal necros in order for them to get good dps, sounds like you're talking about lifeburn(cuz lich don't take that much life, the healers group heals should cover it easy, even with a choker) and, the thing is, necro's should not be so dependant on a spell that has a 5-15 min reuse, tbh I don't remember how long it is, been a while since I used my necro, but it's long enough that you're not gonna be using it on every fight, and enough dmg that you're not gonna be throwing it off first thing at a raid encounter, therefore, you gotta have more to fall back on then the 'easy button'.

And as I stated not allota necros nowadays are skilled enough or possess the right gear to pull off steady dps. And yes, some of the dps does come from other classes in the group, your bard's and chanters namely, but there's where things go downhill once again and I get back to one of the original points of this post. It's hard enough to get groups nowadays, nevermind being picky about classes, the last group I joined did not even have a chanter or a bard, and to me that is an oddity, as with TSO I would not have even wasted my time with a group that did not at the least possess one of those classes if not both.

I'm not saying to add a buncha lower lvl dungeons, at least not originally, I merely meant to make it more like it was in tier5, however, some more lower dungeons would be nice, in wow, you can pretty much start running the latest tiers dungeons at lvl 70, then they got heroic versions of all the dungeons for 80, at least then the lvl 70 crowd wasnt totally left on the sidelines, and the dungeons offered decent gear for leveling, solo or otherwise, also it eliminates the scaling issue you just mentioned, as heroic is top lvl's only, period.