AA Changes

Kroonerr · 02-12-2010, 12:16 PM

With SF launching it sounds like there are some fundamental changes that are going to affect AA selections. Various things I've picked up are:

No longer required to spend 4 AA on "stat" bonuses before proceeding down one of those lines. If you were, for example, spec'd with str-sta-agi trees you could take the 4aa from each line and spend the 12aa somewhere else if you didn't want the stat increases.
Change in Fanaticism to a permanent buff instead of short duration? Sounds like power drain is still a component but is it more, less or the same as before?
Something about Punishment lines being viable? I never did any them so I'm not sure what the negatives were, but what makes them good now?

I'm sure there's more, but this stuff alone probably warrents some changes. What are people's thoughts?

For me, I've gone with a somewhat generic Battle Cleric build to this point, largely following the class write-up here in the forums. I'm just now getting to the point where I have considered respecing with an AA mirror to get more specialized for dps/solo vs healing. Some things I was already considering:

Dropping MA and DA AA's to max out heal crit (currently 5/ and Shield Ally (think it's maybe 6/8 now) to make a stronger Heal spec
Dropping AA's out of the Trauma line and shifting into the Condemn tree and or Punishment tree to boost DPS spec (I haven't max'd points in this tree yet so I have room to grow)

All thoughts appreciated, especially those who have been in Beta and have had a chance to ponder the upcoming changes.

Calain80 · 02-12-2010, 01:54 PM

- But many of the old KOS AA moved from 8 to 10 points to get the same result. You still have a bit more freedom how to split the points. - Yes it is a permanent buff, that buffs haste, reuse and all damage stats (STR, AGI, WIS, INT). The power cost is huge btw. You can reduce it by 50% (by taking enhanced fanaticism), but with the nerf of power procs you will have a hard time if a fight takes longer then one minute. - They all proc much more reliable now and the trigger conditions where eased up a bit. Also the end skill now is a heal proc instead of a taunt proc. I also think about using a solo and a group / raid build again. But I can't really say how it will look like.

Kroonerr · 02-12-2010, 04:46 PM

Does Fanatacism still have the same quick cast and reuse time? Is it feasible to use it like we do now and just click on and click off when you want it? If that aspect is essentially unchanged and all they did was remove the 30 sec timer on it that doesn't bother me.

Keshkin · 02-12-2010, 06:02 PM

Do the changes help or hurt our ability to solo? I love playing in a group, but that isn't always an option due to my schedule.

inhumanus1986 · 02-12-2010, 06:41 PM

Your soloing will skyrocket, it will just take a little adjustment to the new stats and AA to get there.

Soloing now will be based on crit, wisdom and agility/defense in that order. 100% melee crit is now gone, but lets say your healing gear has you at 900 wisdom and 50% heal crit, it will now be the same as having 900 str for your weapons and melee, 900 intelligence for your spells and 50% crit for all three.

Plus to heals now adds plus to heals, combat art damage AND spells.

Fanaticism is just a buff. it stays on until cancelled. It does not penalize your healing anymore and buffs wis, str, agi AND int.

Heretic's demise is now and encounter nuke that also hit for a ton (Expert t8 - 3800).

Punishment spells now use yourself or your friendly target to do damage -

Vengance - Melee attack, w/ AA hits for over 1000

Heresy - Spell attacks, w/ AA hits for over 3000

Repentance - Combat or spell attacks, w/ AA hits for about 2000

and you can add AA that will add AOE heals to all three.

More solo mobs are one and two down arrows w/ groups.

Crit/wis gear is easy to get from easy soloable names in the frontier.

Pyra Shineflame · 02-16-2010, 03:40 PM

inhumanus1986 wrote:

Your soloing will skyrocket, it will just take a little adjustment to the new stats and AA to get there.
Soloing now will be based on crit, wisdom and agility/defense in that order. 100% melee crit is now gone, but lets say your healing gear has you at 900 wisdom and 50% heal crit, it will now be the same as having 900 str for your weapons and melee, 900 intelligence for your spells and 50% crit for all three.
Plus to heals now adds plus to heals, combat art damage AND spells.
Fanaticism is just a buff. it stays on until cancelled. It does not penalize your healing anymore and buffs wis, str, agi AND int.
Heretic's demise is now and encounter nuke that also hit for a ton (Expert t8 - 3800).
Punishment spells now use yourself or your friendly target to do damage -
Vengance - Melee attack, w/ AA hits for over 1000
Heresy - Spell attacks, w/ AA hits for over 3000
Repentance - Combat or spell attacks, w/ AA hits for about 2000
and you can add AA that will add AOE heals to all three.
More solo mobs are one and two down arrows w/ groups.
Crit/wis gear is easy to get from easy soloable names in the frontier.

Is it just the way I am reading it, but the Punishment spells still seem to use the mob rather than yourself. Given that the end line is "forces enemy to heal allies nearby," in the same way Inquisition works, I don't think Vengeance and such is self target cast. Would be wonderful if it was...

inhumanus1986 · 02-16-2010, 04:49 PM

I could see how my wording would cause confusion. It is cast on the mob, but instead of waiting on the mob to do these actions, it now uses yourself or your friendly target's actions to trigger the effects.

Inhumanus

gl on the expansion...

Pyra Shineflame · 02-16-2010, 10:00 PM

inhumanus1986 wrote:

I could see how my wording would cause confusion. It is cast on the mob, but instead of waiting on the mob to do these actions, it now uses yourself or your friendly target's actions to trigger the effects.
Inhumanus
gl on the expansion...

Oooh, very nice indeed =) Now I can just hope that servers are somewhat stable by the time I get home from work >.<

Kroonerr · 02-17-2010, 10:09 AM

So when I did my respec for my solo/dps build I included the full Punishment line including the end ability. I then went and solo'd my way entirely to level 81 doing the solo quests in the first SF zone (forget the name of it). All I was doing was Condemn to pull, then Vengence, then just melee and CA's to kill things down. With the heal procs coming back off Punishment, I never had to use reactive/direct heals and never once did my health go much below 90%. Mobs being fought were lvl 77-80 even con mobs, so nothing too difficult. Parse data showed that the heal off Punishment was doing 58% of the healing on me with the rest coming from Overflow procs, armor set bonuses, and Thex Mallet proc.

So far I have to say I like the changes to the Punishment line. Will be really curious to see what it's like using them when in a group and the melee/spell/ca procs are triggering much faster. When added to Inquisition this looks like a lot of reverse healing off of the mob which is nice.

Pyra Shineflame · 02-17-2010, 04:44 PM

Hmm, maybe it was just me, but casting Vengeance and Repetance on a training dummy, then whacking on it did nothing to the counter and just spent itself. I hope it works the way stated here in the thread on actual mobs, perhaps it as just the way the dummy is that wasn't causing it to work. For me dps spec, I'm planning on just going Combative healing and punishments, and ignore most of the healing AAs in Shadow (save for the crit) and see how that works out.

Does anyone have any opinion about the usefulness of Inquisition now that it can't be resisted and the max target limit was removed?

Calain80 · 02-18-2010, 05:26 AM

No it is still based on the mob but it still triggers much much better then before. Vengance went from auto attack to any melee attack. (a little bit better, but wasn't that be before) Repentance went from CA to any CA or Spell Attack (maybe also auto attack as it reads "any successful attack" on German servers). It also triggers for almost all script effects (that should be spells or CAs) of a mob. Triggerd even more often then Vengance while fighting most mobs. Heresy went from beneficial spell on target to any successful spell cast. The only problem vs solo mobs was, that a resisted spell is not a successful spell. But it triggers now from spell attacks, buffing, healing and some script effects. So it is still situational, but if you have a caster mob it is great.

Kroonerr · 02-18-2010, 02:57 PM

Zulaika@Antonia Bayle wrote:

Hmm, maybe it was just me, but casting Vengeance and Repetance on a training dummy, then whacking on it did nothing to the counter and just spent itself. I hope it works the way stated here in the thread on actual mobs, perhaps it as just the way the dummy is that wasn't causing it to work.

Yep didn't work for me on a training dummy either. Works in the "real world" though.

Loki_d20 · 02-23-2010, 05:12 PM

inhumanus1986 wrote:

Your soloing will skyrocket, it will just take a little adjustment to the new stats and AA to get there.
Soloing now will be based on crit, wisdom and agility/defense in that order. 100% melee crit is now gone, but lets say your healing gear has you at 900 wisdom and 50% heal crit, it will now be the same as having 900 str for your weapons and melee, 900 intelligence for your spells and 50% crit for all three.

I'm coming back anew to the game after a long time away. Are you saying that for gear we should focus on wisdom gear to increase our melee and spell damage now? Is it a whichever is greater calculation or otherwise? Is there a link you can provide that explains this in some detail?

Pyra Shineflame · 02-23-2010, 07:17 PM

I don't quite know what you mean by "greater calculation" but wisdom is now our primary stat, yes. Strength now does nothing but adjust how much junk we can carry, all damage is based on wisdom. What you should be looking for gear wise is any and all wisdom heavy items. In the higher levels, critical, potency, spell reuse, spell cast modifiers, not necessarily in that order is what you should be hunting for.

02-12-2010, 12:16 PM	#1
Kroonerr Champion Join Date: Oct 2009 Posts: 50	With SF launching it sounds like there are some fundamental changes that are going to affect AA selections. Various things I've picked up are: No longer required to spend 4 AA on "stat" bonuses before proceeding down one of those lines. If you were, for example, spec'd with str-sta-agi trees you could take the 4aa from each line and spend the 12aa somewhere else if you didn't want the stat increases. Change in Fanaticism to a permanent buff instead of short duration? Sounds like power drain is still a component but is it more, less or the same as before? Something about Punishment lines being viable? I never did any them so I'm not sure what the negatives were, but what makes them good now? I'm sure there's more, but this stuff alone probably warrents some changes. What are people's thoughts? For me, I've gone with a somewhat generic Battle Cleric build to this point, largely following the class write-up here in the forums. I'm just now getting to the point where I have considered respecing with an AA mirror to get more specialized for dps/solo vs healing. Some things I was already considering: Dropping MA and DA AA's to max out heal crit (currently 5/ and Shield Ally (think it's maybe 6/8 now) to make a stronger Heal spec Dropping AA's out of the Trauma line and shifting into the Condemn tree and or Punishment tree to boost DPS spec (I haven't max'd points in this tree yet so I have room to grow) All thoughts appreciated, especially those who have been in Beta and have had a chance to ponder the upcoming changes.

02-16-2010, 03:40 PM	#6
Pyra Shineflame Loremaster Join Date: Sep 2005 Posts: 538	inhumanus1986 wrote: Your soloing will skyrocket, it will just take a little adjustment to the new stats and AA to get there. Soloing now will be based on crit, wisdom and agility/defense in that order. 100% melee crit is now gone, but lets say your healing gear has you at 900 wisdom and 50% heal crit, it will now be the same as having 900 str for your weapons and melee, 900 intelligence for your spells and 50% crit for all three. Plus to heals now adds plus to heals, combat art damage AND spells. Fanaticism is just a buff. it stays on until cancelled. It does not penalize your healing anymore and buffs wis, str, agi AND int. Heretic's demise is now and encounter nuke that also hit for a ton (Expert t8 - 3800). Punishment spells now use yourself or your friendly target to do damage - Vengance - Melee attack, w/ AA hits for over 1000 Heresy - Spell attacks, w/ AA hits for over 3000 Repentance - Combat or spell attacks, w/ AA hits for about 2000 and you can add AA that will add AOE heals to all three. More solo mobs are one and two down arrows w/ groups. Crit/wis gear is easy to get from easy soloable names in the frontier. Is it just the way I am reading it, but the Punishment spells still seem to use the mob rather than yourself. Given that the end line is "forces enemy to heal allies nearby," in the same way Inquisition works, I don't think Vengeance and such is self target cast. Would be wonderful if it was... __________________ "Blood! Sweet blood, death and decay!"

02-16-2010, 10:00 PM	#8
Pyra Shineflame Loremaster Join Date: Sep 2005 Posts: 538	inhumanus1986 wrote: I could see how my wording would cause confusion. It is cast on the mob, but instead of waiting on the mob to do these actions, it now uses yourself or your friendly target's actions to trigger the effects. Inhumanus gl on the expansion... Oooh, very nice indeed =) Now I can just hope that servers are somewhat stable by the time I get home from work >.< __________________ "Blood! Sweet blood, death and decay!"

02-17-2010, 04:44 PM	#10
Pyra Shineflame Loremaster Join Date: Sep 2005 Posts: 538	Hmm, maybe it was just me, but casting Vengeance and Repetance on a training dummy, then whacking on it did nothing to the counter and just spent itself. I hope it works the way stated here in the thread on actual mobs, perhaps it as just the way the dummy is that wasn't causing it to work. For me dps spec, I'm planning on just going Combative healing and punishments, and ignore most of the healing AAs in Shadow (save for the crit) and see how that works out. Does anyone have any opinion about the usefulness of Inquisition now that it can't be resisted and the max target limit was removed? __________________ "Blood! Sweet blood, death and decay!"

02-18-2010, 02:57 PM	#12
Kroonerr Champion Join Date: Oct 2009 Posts: 50	Zulaika@Antonia Bayle wrote: Hmm, maybe it was just me, but casting Vengeance and Repetance on a training dummy, then whacking on it did nothing to the counter and just spent itself. I hope it works the way stated here in the thread on actual mobs, perhaps it as just the way the dummy is that wasn't causing it to work. Yep didn't work for me on a training dummy either. Works in the "real world" though.

02-12-2010, 01:54 PM	#2
Calain80 Loremaster Join Date: Dec 2004 Posts: 1,309	- But many of the old KOS AA moved from 8 to 10 points to get the same result. You still have a bit more freedom how to split the points. - Yes it is a permanent buff, that buffs haste, reuse and all damage stats (STR, AGI, WIS, INT). The power cost is huge btw. You can reduce it by 50% (by taking enhanced fanaticism), but with the nerf of power procs you will have a hard time if a fight takes longer then one minute. - They all proc much more reliable now and the trigger conditions where eased up a bit. Also the end skill now is a heal proc instead of a taunt proc. I also think about using a solo and a group / raid build again. But I can't really say how it will look like.

02-12-2010, 04:46 PM	#3
Kroonerr Champion Join Date: Oct 2009 Posts: 50	Does Fanatacism still have the same quick cast and reuse time? Is it feasible to use it like we do now and just click on and click off when you want it? If that aspect is essentially unchanged and all they did was remove the 30 sec timer on it that doesn't bother me.

02-12-2010, 06:02 PM	#4
Keshkin Server: Unrest Loremaster Join Date: Nov 2004 Posts: 12	Do the changes help or hurt our ability to solo? I love playing in a group, but that isn't always an option due to my schedule.

02-12-2010, 06:41 PM	#5
inhumanus1986 Loremaster Join Date: Sep 2005 Posts: 103	Your soloing will skyrocket, it will just take a little adjustment to the new stats and AA to get there. Soloing now will be based on crit, wisdom and agility/defense in that order. 100% melee crit is now gone, but lets say your healing gear has you at 900 wisdom and 50% heal crit, it will now be the same as having 900 str for your weapons and melee, 900 intelligence for your spells and 50% crit for all three. Plus to heals now adds plus to heals, combat art damage AND spells. Fanaticism is just a buff. it stays on until cancelled. It does not penalize your healing anymore and buffs wis, str, agi AND int. Heretic's demise is now and encounter nuke that also hit for a ton (Expert t8 - 3800). Punishment spells now use yourself or your friendly target to do damage - Vengance - Melee attack, w/ AA hits for over 1000 Heresy - Spell attacks, w/ AA hits for over 3000 Repentance - Combat or spell attacks, w/ AA hits for about 2000 and you can add AA that will add AOE heals to all three. More solo mobs are one and two down arrows w/ groups. Crit/wis gear is easy to get from easy soloable names in the frontier.

02-16-2010, 04:49 PM	#7
inhumanus1986 Loremaster Join Date: Sep 2005 Posts: 103	I could see how my wording would cause confusion. It is cast on the mob, but instead of waiting on the mob to do these actions, it now uses yourself or your friendly target's actions to trigger the effects. Inhumanus gl on the expansion...

02-17-2010, 10:09 AM	#9
Kroonerr Champion Join Date: Oct 2009 Posts: 50	So when I did my respec for my solo/dps build I included the full Punishment line including the end ability. I then went and solo'd my way entirely to level 81 doing the solo quests in the first SF zone (forget the name of it). All I was doing was Condemn to pull, then Vengence, then just melee and CA's to kill things down. With the heal procs coming back off Punishment, I never had to use reactive/direct heals and never once did my health go much below 90%. Mobs being fought were lvl 77-80 even con mobs, so nothing too difficult. Parse data showed that the heal off Punishment was doing 58% of the healing on me with the rest coming from Overflow procs, armor set bonuses, and Thex Mallet proc. So far I have to say I like the changes to the Punishment line. Will be really curious to see what it's like using them when in a group and the melee/spell/ca procs are triggering much faster. When added to Inquisition this looks like a lot of reverse healing off of the mob which is nice.

02-18-2010, 05:26 AM	#11
Calain80 Loremaster Join Date: Dec 2004 Posts: 1,309	No it is still based on the mob but it still triggers much much better then before. Vengance went from auto attack to any melee attack. (a little bit better, but wasn't that be before) Repentance went from CA to any CA or Spell Attack (maybe also auto attack as it reads "any successful attack" on German servers). It also triggers for almost all script effects (that should be spells or CAs) of a mob. Triggerd even more often then Vengance while fighting most mobs. Heresy went from beneficial spell on target to any successful spell cast. The only problem vs solo mobs was, that a resisted spell is not a successful spell. But it triggers now from spell attacks, buffing, healing and some script effects. So it is still situational, but if you have a caster mob it is great.

02-23-2010, 05:12 PM	#13
Loki_d20 Loremaster Join Date: Jan 2005 Location: behind you Posts: 111	inhumanus1986 wrote: Your soloing will skyrocket, it will just take a little adjustment to the new stats and AA to get there. Soloing now will be based on crit, wisdom and agility/defense in that order. 100% melee crit is now gone, but lets say your healing gear has you at 900 wisdom and 50% heal crit, it will now be the same as having 900 str for your weapons and melee, 900 intelligence for your spells and 50% crit for all three. I'm coming back anew to the game after a long time away. Are you saying that for gear we should focus on wisdom gear to increase our melee and spell damage now? Is it a whichever is greater calculation or otherwise? Is there a link you can provide that explains this in some detail?

02-23-2010, 07:17 PM	#14
Pyra Shineflame Loremaster Join Date: Sep 2005 Posts: 538	I don't quite know what you mean by "greater calculation" but wisdom is now our primary stat, yes. Strength now does nothing but adjust how much junk we can carry, all damage is based on wisdom. What you should be looking for gear wise is any and all wisdom heavy items. In the higher levels, critical, potency, spell reuse, spell cast modifiers, not necessarily in that order is what you should be hunting for. __________________ "Blood! Sweet blood, death and decay!"