Any news of Veeshan?

[lostsandman]

I am new to the lore of EQ2 and been reading this forums to get myself updated.

However I have noticed that in many talk of gods returning, there is hardly any mention of Veeshan or even an avatar. She is god right? What is her current status?

If I understand correctly, all those floating isle (TT, barren sky, bonimer) in KoS were fallen from Plane of Sky? Is Veeshan "dead" or something up in PoS?

[Vaedaer]

as far as I know/remember Veeshan left Norrath around EQlive timeline and hasn't showed her face since D:

[Cusashorn]

Veeshan is a special case when it comes to the Gods. The original Everquest opening movie back in 1999 described and showed Veeshan herself flying through space, breathing on Norrath, and completely terraforming it into the inhabitable planet that it is. She then created the Dragons, left them on the surface, and then flew off into space for reaches unknown.

She has never actually appeared anywhere in the game, nor has she ever gotten directly involved in the affairs of mortals or even the other gods.

The only exception is Kerafyrm, also formerly known as the Sleeper (now The Awakened). As the dragons tell it, they had Veeshan herself provide a spell for the dragons to keep him asleep so he couldn't wreak havoc on Dragonkind or the rest of the planet. It's not stated that she showed up in person (Her physical body is longer than 1/3rd of Norrath itself,) or how she communicated with the dragons, but that is their story, and they're sticking to it. When he finally woke up and rampaged through Skyshrine and the Temple of Veeshan, he ended by flying off into space to pursue Veeshan, and hasn't been heard from since.

It seems apparent that Veeshan is a god, but is she really a god, or just a being of tremendous power who really does have the ability to change planets? She has never returned to Norrath as far as anything has been documented. She doesn't get involved with the other gods. She is supposed to be the God of Sky, but what kind of power does that include? Xegony controls the air, so we can all breathe. Veeshan is just the Sky. You never hear anyone taking her name in vain anytime something falls from it, so what does she do?

[Cyliena]

In EQ1, there were very, very few people that could worship Veeshan. Human Bards and the Drakkin are the ones I can think of offhand--there may have been one other race/class that could.

However, for the most part she has stayed out of the affairs of mortals, as Cusahorn wonderfully explained. In Plane of Sky on EQ1, the only inkling of her presence was the Hand of Veeshan and the Eye of Veeshan. With the Seeds of Destiny expansion, she was seen frozen in space, but the lore behind that is that it is an alternate timeline of events.

I can't think of a single time I've seen reference to Veeshan on EQ2, but I do admit I still have not seen the upper end of the game.

[Cusashorn]

Cyliena@Everfrost wrote:

I can't think of a single time I've seen reference to Veeshan on EQ2, but I do admit I still have not seen the upper end of the game.

Besides locations named after her, namely Veeshan's Peak.

[lostsandman]

Thanks guys for your answers

I am very suprised that there is no mention of her in EQ2 or even in EQ.

Do we know whats happenning in Plane of Sky? From reading here something is very wrong up there.

Also its quite interesting when reading about gods, they (the gods) make no mention of Veeshan. When they are having al ltheir trouble, they hold council and discuss thing but they don't seem to invloel Veeshan.

[Cusashorn]

Drona@Splitpaw wrote:

Thanks guys for your answers

I am very suprised that there is no mention of her in EQ2 or even in EQ.

Do we know whats happenning in Plane of Sky? From reading here something is very wrong up there.

Also its quite interesting when reading about gods, they (the gods) make no mention of Veeshan. When they are having al ltheir trouble, they hold council and discuss thing but they don't seem to invloel Veeshan.

Because she just as likely doesn't want to be involved.

The Plane of Sky's lore is pretty acturally summed up in the Desert of Flame and Kingdom of Sky expansion packs. it physically "Leaked" into Norrath, so now high above Norrath are thousands of floating islands that now exist in Norrath itself.

[Dramadon]

Don't forget, she did physically mark Norrath with her claw. She scarred the ground in Velious making three large canyons. It will be interesting to see if they survived the Rending.

[Cusashorn]

I'd imagine they would. Velious is more rock than ice, so the Great Divide and the two scars on the west side of the continent probably won't have geographically changed all that much.

[The_Cheeseman]

You don't hear much about Veeshan because she is, for all intents and purposes, completely absent. Veeshan has never actually done anything in the history of EQ since depositing her brood on Velious.

I mean, the dragons claim that she provided the power they used to put Kerfyrm ti sleep, but dragons say a lot of stuff that isn't always entirely true (see: Nagafen, Darathar, Trakanon, Wuoshi, etc.). She also supposedly raised Vulak'Aerr to her presence, but this was just basically a hand-wave to make the Vulak encounter in Temple of Veeshan a whole lot harder by creating what may have been the first ring event in EQ (since his loot was pretty obscene for the era).

Worshiping Veeshan is pretty much entirely pointless, as she really hasn't said or done anything since the origin of the world.

[Methrill.Rundran]

In the Claymore questline, Aaryonar mentions her (indirectly) in the dialogue you have in An Audience With Aaryonar: "Ghost? No I am complete. Perhaps not as complete as I once was within the Temple of Veeshan, but I am complete after offering my spirit to the greatness of the Awakened." ... "Long in ages past I stood guard within the Temple of Veeshan deep within the frozen dragon realm of Velious. There is where I stood watch until the temple was assaulted like Norrathians, similar to you." ... "No. Not within the temple. We of the Claws of Veeshan repelled the army of Norrathians and gave chase upon the tundra. It is then I spotted a glint on the horizon, a tower! I flew alone to investigate." ... "It was not of dragon, giant or coldain. As I drew closer, hordes and fiends unlike any I have ever studied or seen appeared from the gate of the tower. With a mighty roar I chose to put them to death in defense of the Claws of Veeshan." During the Deathtoll access quest, Arbiter Selek mentions her (again indirectly): "A surface-dweller who speaks the sacred language of Veeshan? I had heard here ere some who could, but truthfully I did not believe it." ... "What does time matter to a child of Veeshan? I need time to speak with my master. Two of your days should suffice.” ... "My master suggested that I was too harsh with you earlier. You must understand that my life has become much more complicated since the days when my kind served in the temples of Veeshan in the true realm of Sky." ... "Indeed, we were created by the Mother of All Wurms to guard her realm. There is no way I can express to you the bliss of serving the highest purpose a being could ever know. Serving our Mother was an honor I shall never forget." ... "Our Mother has always been above the petty bickering of the lesser gods, choosing to ignore their squabbles and watch over her brood. Though distant, we always knew she was there. But there came a time when her presence could no longer be felt, and our home shuddered and weakened in her absence." ... "I had grown disenchanted with the Awakened and the endless squabbling of its leaders. When my people were first approached by the Prismatic, we thought he could lead us to a destiny nearly as great as when we served our Great Mother, Veeshan.” ... "When Kerafyrm departed and was gone from the Overrealm for some time, the four leaders of the Awakened splintered apart and became locked in a struggle for power. They became as petty as the Ring or the Claws. I fell into despair, thinking all of Veeshan’s children had lost their way." In To Speak the Unspoken, Turadramin mentions her in dialogue too: "I no longer care who takes them as long as they are out of the hands of the Awakened. The followers of Kerafyrm must not be allowed to carry out their plan! Perhaps another dragon can be found who would defy the blasphemers and restore Veeshan’s true ways" ... "You have much to learn before you can accomplish that feat. Seek out allies who share my contempt for those usurpers of Veeshan’s glory who call themselves the Awakened. Perhaps when you have done so, I can tell you more that might be of use. But go now, for I can sense that my voice will soon be silenced once again.” Lord Nagafen mentions her in Serving A New Master: "The draconic laws still stand. I cannot take direct action against another dragon, even though they have betrayed all that the children of Veeshan hold dear. You must strike at them for me.”

[Cyliena]

It just dawned on me while reading Methrill's post... that Veeshan indirectly made another appearance on Norrath in EQ Live, just last year. Unfortunately, it didn't really reveal much about her.. it was basically her avatar testing those who have dwelled on Norrath for the 10 year anniversary (see: Memory in Crystal). Maybe we'll get lucky and her avatar will one day visit the Norrath of EQ II.

I do believe that, overall, Veeshan does not care what happens upon Norrath. In most instances, it seems to be those influenced most by her mark on the lands that are the ones mentioned (children of Veeshan, etc).

[The_Cheeseman]

In my opinion, if Veeshan had any interest in the future of her brood on Norrath, she'd have already done something by now. Since the time of EQ1, we've seen:

Lord Nagafen rebel against draconic law and mate with Lady Vox, spawning a clutch of prismatic eggs. Then Darathar used the Harness to command the Drakota to slay Lady Vox, and nearly kill Nagafen. In retaliation, Nagafen employed us to kill Darathar.

Dragon Count: -2 (Darathar, Lady Vox)

Kerafyrm claim divinity and steal members from both the Claws of Veeshan and the Ring of Scale to worship him in creating the Cult of the Awakened. All of whom are now dead by our hands at the request of Nagafen.

Dragon Count: -4/5 (Lord Vyemm, Harla Dar, Gorenaire, and Talendor. Possibly also Venekor).

The soul of Tarinax claimed by the void, and his remains used by Kerafyrm to guard his toybox.

Dragon Count: -1 (Tarinax)

Wuoshi, guardian of the Bloom of Growth, slain by the PCs, presumably for phat loots.

Dragon Count: -1 (Wuoshi)

Trakanon, released from the Curse of Sebilis, claiming leadership of the Ring of Scale (probably by force) and then attempting to claim the Chelsith Stone from the PCs. We end up slaughtering the entire Ring of Scale during our assault on Veeshan's Peak in order to slay Trakanon. Khalan Dar also died at some point before our assault on the fortress.

Dragon Count: -8 (Druushk, Hoshkar, Nexona, Phara Dar, Khalan Dar, Silverwing, Xygoz, and Trakanon)

And that's only counting "storyline relevant" dragons whose deaths are integral to the unfolding plot of the game. Heck, before long there won't be any dragons left!

[shadowscale]

... thia post got very depressing.... *crys*

its not fair... always forced to kill them like that to actualy do anything. and dont forget about the frostfell dragon, will be offing him eventualy to...

really its like someone at SoE has something agaist dragons... almost dreading the return to velious. althogh might be a nice time for a twist of things and let us ally with them like in EQ1. would be a good way to bring in a prophit of veeshan as well.

[Rainmare]

The Dragons mostly bring it on themselves, and you forgot about Nagafen's quote.

'draconic law still stands, I cannot take action against another dragon directly'

which is why Darathar used the Harness. that way the Drakota do the deed, rendinger him blameless. he didn't lift a talon.

the law against the mating of opposing elements was never, ever, mentioned before except by the high priest, who then basically backed down on it at the birth of Kerafyrm. and it was only after the disaster of Kerafyrm, that the Claws seperated Vox and Naggy, fearing a second incident.

Venekor we go after to free teh frogloks (the first time) and the second time simply because we found him back up to his saem tricks in KoS with the frogloks there. he just doesn't learn.

Trakanon was misguided. he assumed that He was the one to possess the Chelsith stone, not us in the prophecy. we come for the last medallion he has, and he tried to take the rest of the stone from us. we won.

to get to Trak, we had to defeat the Ring. they could have let us pass, but dragons just aren't that friendly to 'lessers'.

not to mention, just becuase for game/raid reasons we killed the Ring and Trak, that they are actually 'dead' by lore terms. Same for Woushi.

just becuase you have the trophy that says he's dead don't mean he really is. we got the trophy for killing Mayong. but we all know he's still very much undead and around.

[Rezikai]

Rainmare@Oasis wrote:

The Dragons mostly bring it on themselves, and you forgot about Nagafen's quote.

'draconic law still stands, I cannot take action against another dragon directly'

which is why Darathar used the Harness. that way the Drakota do the deed, rendinger him blameless. he didn't lift a talon.

the law against the mating of opposing elements was never, ever, mentioned before except by the high priest, who then basically backed down on it at the birth of Kerafyrm. and it was only after the disaster of Kerafyrm, that the Claws seperated Vox and Naggy, fearing a second incident.

Venekor we go after to free teh frogloks (the first time) and the second time simply because we found him back up to his saem tricks in KoS with the frogloks there. he just doesn't learn.

Trakanon was misguided. he assumed that He was the one to possess the Chelsith stone, not us in the prophecy. we come for the last medallion he has, and he tried to take the rest of the stone from us. we won.

to get to Trak, we had to defeat the Ring. they could have let us pass, but dragons just aren't that friendly to 'lessers'.

not to mention, just becuase for game/raid reasons we killed the Ring and Trak, that they are actually 'dead' by lore terms. Same for Woushi.

just becuase you have the trophy that says he's dead don't mean he really is. we got the trophy for killing Mayong. but we all know he's still very much undead and around.

Correct, just becauce we "slay" them in the game as raids doesnt mean they're actually dead, unless the lore/story says we do, like Darathar and the "ghost" text of Gorenaire, after we kill her. As far as I know the rest are still alive in the lore of the game... hell Trakanon LIVED as undead for the better part of the last millenia, im sure a simple slaying of his body for the medalion didnt do much except tick him off.

[shadowscale]

Rainmare@Oasis wrote:

The Dragons mostly bring it on themselves.

yah but its SoE makeing them that way with the typical stero type... they could add friendlyer ones if they chose to.

tired of dragon slaying all the time... i miss the dragons in EQ1 you could ally with rather then just kill.

[Morghus]

There are some very strange inconsistencies with Trakanon in general though. First of all we are never told how he became living flesh and blood once again, or how he took control of the ring of scale.

Second, we are told through the Shadow Odyssey line that his lair was plundered but not that he was specifically killed.

Also, despite having to kill all of the Ring of Scale to get access to him, when he dies he says that the Ring will avenge him. Really odd thing to say if they are all dead, let alone when you are implied to have taken control by force.

Also, to add to the list of possibly dead dragons we have.

Siyamak and Barakah, two draconic lovers who were cursed by the Djinn Master so that when one was in draconic form the other was always in their humanoid form. We kill them to access and kill the Djinn Master which is somewhat ironic.

Talendor, has his ghost come out just like Gorenaire.

Chel'drak is killed to free Zeb's memories, although it is iffy if you can really consider him an actual dragon. He seemed happy enough to be killed though...considering his duties finished.

I would be somewhat amused if a dragon lore and legend were released eventually, I mean we would technically have enough parts lying around for that.

[shadowscale]

Morghus wrote:

Siyamak and Barakah, two draconic lovers who were cursed by the Djinn Master so that when one was in draconic form the other was always in their humanoid form. We kill them to access and kill the Djinn Master which is somewhat ironic.

this was probably the most depressing one of all really. im just glad you dident have to kill them in pedistle of sky for the scale.

[The_Cheeseman]

I agree that not all raid kills are "storyline" kills, but since Trak and the Ring of scale had to die to finish the primary questline of that expansion, I was under the impression that their deaths were canon. In every other primary questline, the kills we made actually happened. Even in the case of Mayong in Swords of Destiny--when he appears at the end of Kunark, he references the fact that he let us win an faked his own death. I guess nothing is stopping Trakanon from reappearing and claiming the same, but I doubt that he foresaw such a situation, judging by how egotistical he was.

[Dramadon]

I've always looked at it as Dragons are very hard to kill. Even when we "kill" him, we don't necessarily actually kill them. They are smart and ancient creatures and they don't survive that long (given their nature for meddling with each other) unless they are smart and have contingencies. Unless there is a statement in game saying a Dragon is dead (like Vox) I always think there is a possibility they will come back.

[Rainmare]

Trakanon is actually the most likely to forsee it, as he was gifted with that particular ability. Mayong never talks about faking his death, simply that he allowed us to defeat him as it would futher his own goals.

I seriously doubt any of the Ring are truly 'dead'. honestly, I'd find it much easier to consider the Cult of the Awakened all dead before any of the ring of scale.

the only dragon directly linked to a major story arc we know for sure that we slay is Darathar...and I beleive Barahkah and Siymak...though we really put them out of thier misery rather then just a slay them for loots thing. we subdue them both to get the scales we need...but they are still bound to the Djinn Master and we need to defeat them for good in the pedestal of sky I think it was to confront him. they were the last line of defense.

Venekor we've 'killed' twice now, and there was a note by I think rothgar that we might even see him a third time, soethign about him fleeing the Halls of Seeing.

from a lore standpoint, any of the Ring is more then enough to handle 24 adventurers. hell any of the Ring is probably enough to handle Nagafen, and he can incenerate us on a whim. these are VERY old, VERY powerful dragons. and the stereotype isn't as bad as it seems. honestly we provoke them, and they respond as anyone who beleive they are superior does.

if a cat tries to claw you, what do you do? hug it and say good kitty, or kick it away from you rather harshly? we invaded Veeshaan's Peak, looking for the medallion in Trak's claws. they responded in kind to invaders of thier home, same way they respond to it when the Sebillisian and Sathirian Empires try it.

Other then the 'phat lewt' idea....there's no reason whatsoever for us to go after Woushi. except for Tunarains that talked to him, and got the definate feeling he was up to no good with the Bloom during the deity line.

Venekor deserves what he gets for enslaving the frogloks. your liberating them by kicking his scaley rear.

Aiden is a conjuration of Najena's, that gets Void Touched. nto really a 'true' dragon.

Zarrakon..we have no idea about his story other then he's a dragon MAyong turned to vampirism and uses as a gaurdain to a 'greater power' then it.

Tarinax..his soul is is OoLS, his remains reanimated in Deathtoll. more a golem like construct then a real dragon.

Harla Dar/Gorenaire/Talendor/Vyemn...we kill them becuase they are a threat to Norrath, as part of the Cult of the Awakened. while Gore/Talendor/Harla are realtively harmless, waiting for Kera to return, Vyemn is definately out to wage war and 'reclaim' norrath in honor of Kerafyrm.

and Eq1...yes, you could 'ally' with the Temple. but if you pay attention to the text, you aren't even remotely considered an equal ally. your considered useful cannonfodder. utterly, completely expendable and a dime a dozen. they test your loyaty and willingness to follow orders, but other then that they could care less about you. they think of you the same way the WW2 military considered carrier pigeons. useful, dependable to a point...but also completely expendable. they'd sooner let a thousand adventurers die then lose 1 drakota...and certainly a hundred thousand before a dragon dared to chip a talon in a fight.

[Morghus]

The major issue in my opinion with 'lore' of this sort in regards to individual NPCs seems to be a disconnect of expansion to expansion lore aside from a few things like the ever present void storyline. In general, we the players do not know of the confirmed fates and are given very shallow insights to the motives of individuals most of the time unless they are somehow deemed 'worthy of plot' even if said character would in most cases be a major power in the game world.

Several expansions later, we still do not know for sure if we finally killed Venekor in Halls of Seeing, or if Barakah and Siyamak ever broke free of their curse or are simply dead. We do not know anything at all about what the issue with Wuoshi was, nor do we truly know if Trakanon is permanently dead this time.

We do not know if Overking Selrach, the son of the previous Overking is truly dead after we killed him, we do not know if Venril is gone, we literally learn nothing and are left to assume in either direction. These potentially big name NPCs typically have little dialogue, and are simply there to attatch a name to a raid/heroic target mostly. Nothing is ever explored, elaborated, or even attempted to be made interesting as of late.

Even Anashti, the major figure of this expansion has little of relevance to say when you confront/defeat her. Characters like Mayong, Nagafen, Antonia/Lucan however get a great deal of exposition and development while other characters tend to be forgotten the moment their given expansion passes by.

A great disservice to waste and woefully utilize such characters in my opinion. Even Garanel from Unrest has more characterization/player interaction than many recent characters that should have been of greater significance.

[shadowscale]

Rainmare@Oasis wrote:

and Eq1...yes, you could 'ally' with the Temple. but if you pay attention to the text, you aren't even remotely considered an equal ally. your considered useful cannonfodder. utterly, completely expendable and a dime a dozen. they test your loyaty and willingness to follow orders, but other then that they could care less about you. they think of you the same way the WW2 military considered carrier pigeons. useful, dependable to a point...but also completely expendable. they'd sooner let a thousand adventurers die then lose 1 drakota...and certainly a hundred thousand before a dragon dared to chip a talon in a fight.

if i remember correctly... skyshrine and the claws of veeshan were rather nice for being dragons. even letting you into the testing hall of the temple of veeshan. and they give out armor. some of them even shared some jokes. sure they dident all like outsiders but they seemed rather tolerent. they even had an area set up for smaller races to do buesnes and lodgeing. and they LOVED bards.

[Cyliena]

shadowscale wrote:

Rainmare@Oasis wrote:

and Eq1...yes, you could 'ally' with the Temple. but if you pay attention to the text, you aren't even remotely considered an equal ally. your considered useful cannonfodder. utterly, completely expendable and a dime a dozen. they test your loyaty and willingness to follow orders, but other then that they could care less about you. they think of you the same way the WW2 military considered carrier pigeons. useful, dependable to a point...but also completely expendable. they'd sooner let a thousand adventurers die then lose 1 drakota...and certainly a hundred thousand before a dragon dared to chip a talon in a fight.

if i remember correctly... skyshrine and the claws of veeshan were rather nice for being dragons. even letting you into the testing hall of the temple of veeshan. and they give out armor. some of them even shared some jokes. sure they dident all like outsiders but they seemed rather tolerent. they even had an area set up for smaller races to do buesnes and lodgeing. and they LOVED bards.

Nothing like a good ol' bard song hitting a KOS person too close to the door to wipe the entire raid...

CoV were difficult to get faction with, but once you climbed in their ranks, they were actually quite cordial. And, in the North Temple of Veeshan, the dragons there sent you on quests that involved killing other dragons and dragonkin.

Here, I dug up some dialogue from Yelinak giving a quest, to show how the dragons treated those who had gained their loyalty. I fear I don't see where they treated us like fodder....

You say, 'Hail, Lord Yelinak' Lord Yelinak says 'Young mortal, I welcome you here, though quite reluctantly. I fear I may seem haughty or arrogant, and for that I apologize, however, young one, my trust is not an easy commodity to gain these days. There was a time when I would have welcomed you to these chambers and to my council with great honor, for the dragon kin speak fondly of your deeds toward them. However, the times do unfortunately change. Ages ago, like you, young Kragen Morshire presented himself. He too had earned the trust of the dragon kin and as such, I accepted his counsel. In the end, young one, his true nature shone through and my trust he betrayed. Perhaps you wish to prove yourself more worthy of my trust than he? You say, 'I wish to prove my worth' Lord Yelinak says 'Then as agreed, young mortal, I will grant you one chance to prove your worth in my eyes. The Storm King Tormax sits on a throne carved from the skull of one of our fallen within the city of Kael, which disgraces the mighty children of Veeshan. His life alone is a blight upon the children of Veeshan. Should you be a true patriot to our cause, I seek of you but one task. Should you succeed in this task, not only will your actions offset the balance of this war in our favor, but will surely take a step in driving the vileness of the giants from our noble lands. Bring me, young one, the head of Tormax, and then we shall speak further.

[The_Cheeseman]

I can assure you that, regardless of your faction with the Claws of Veeshan, nobody was welcome in the North wing of the Temple of Veeshan. Lord Yelinak, whose conversation you posted, lived in Skyshrine, not the Temple of Veeshan. The North wing was forbidden to all non-dragons, no matter who you thought you were, and Aaryonar was more than capable of kicking your non-scaly booties out if you chose the wrong door.

[Cyliena]

The_Cheeseman wrote:

I can assure you that, regardless of your faction with the Claws of Veeshan, nobody was welcome in the North wing of the Temple of Veeshan. Lord Yelinak, whose conversation you posted, lived in Skyshrine, not the Temple of Veeshan. The North wing was forbidden to all non-dragons, no matter who you thought you were, and Aaryonar was more than capable of kicking your non-scaly booties out if you chose the wrong door.

My apologies, I meant to say west.... north was the Guardians of Veeshan, who were overtly crabby.

edit: And yes, Yelinak was indeed in Skyshrine, but a dragon none-the-less. The other dragons did not speak down much to you, either, once you had enough faction. If anything, they were blatantly quick to the point with the task they were sending you on.

[The_Cheeseman]

Cyliena@Everfrost wrote:

The_Cheeseman wrote:

I can assure you that, regardless of your faction with the Claws of Veeshan, nobody was welcome in the North wing of the Temple of Veeshan. Lord Yelinak, whose conversation you posted, lived in Skyshrine, not the Temple of Veeshan. The North wing was forbidden to all non-dragons, no matter who you thought you were, and Aaryonar was more than capable of kicking your non-scaly booties out if you chose the wrong door.

My apologies, I meant to say west.... north was the Guardians of Veeshan, who were overtly crabby.

Indeed, "crabby" is a nice way of putting it. Just going NEAR the door to the North wing, while en-route to West wing or the Halls of Testing, could get you curb-stomped by an angry drake!

Doesn't prevent the Temple of Veeshan from being just about the best raid zone ever designed, though!

[Rainmare]

read between the lines there. basically it's 'yes, you've proven yourself an ally, but I don't trust you fully yet, so go and kill the leader of the giants and bring me his head. this will tip the war definately in our favor and we won't have to do a dang thing'

the dragons are cordial and polite, but it's very clear that you are the lesser, and you are just swords in thier hands. Dr. Lecter was cordial and polite too, did that make him any less a monster?

the dragons have always considered the 'mortal races' as thier lessers, with VERY few exceptions. Xygoz for example shows a very definate interest in Eylee, Yelniak is at least more open to 'lesser' council. and Siymak and Barakah both seemed to want to be aroudn mortal races which is what led to thier cladestine bargain with the Djinn Master.

Most other dragons if they deem to speak to you and not kill you on sight, see the other races as little more then pawns on the board. peices to be moved, used, and discarded as needed. Nagafen is rather blatant about it, Darathar tried to be sneaky...and Woushi is so full of disdain that it's dripping off him when you talk to him in the tunare deity line.

[shadowscale]

Rainmare@Oasis wrote:

read between the lines there. basically it's 'yes, you've proven yourself an ally, but I don't trust you fully yet, so go and kill the leader of the giants and bring me his head. this will tip the war definately in our favor and we won't have to do a dang thing'

they have been fighting a stalemate for awhile, its not like the dragons artn trying. and the reason Yelinak dosent trust you is becaus the last one to actualy gain his trust turnd on him, and might be the reaon he lost his mate. there are dragons in skyshrine that are rather friendly.

the dragons are cordial and polite, but it's very clear that you are the lesser, and you are just swords in thier hands. Dr. Lecter was cordial and polite too, did that make him any less a monster?

no more a monster then what any race is capable of, dragons being intellegent, means they can be both good or bad.

the dragons have always considered the 'mortal races' as thier lessers, with VERY few exceptions. Xygoz for example shows a very definate interest in Eylee, Yelniak is at least more open to 'lesser' council. and Siymak and Barakah both seemed to want to be aroudn mortal races which is what led to thier cladestine bargain with the Djinn Master.

this part is true, but had siymak and barakah not had that isse with the Djinn master then it seem they would have been friendlyer to mortals then they are now.

Most other dragons if they deem to speak to you and not kill you on sight, see the other races as little more then pawns on the board. peices to be moved, used, and discarded as needed. Nagafen is rather blatant about it, Darathar tried to be sneaky...and Woushi is so full of disdain that it's dripping off him when you talk to him in the tunare deity line.

added my own thoghts in blue.

in the end they are all ending up bad or raid targets becaus SoE is makeing them that way. every expantion has had a killable dragon. it... gets boring after awhile... lot of unused potentol. after all even D&D has the metalics as their good versions.

another thing. the frostfell dragon atleast has made it rather clear that we are basicly the bad guys invadeing and he hasent even done anything. enslave the goblins? why do the goblins get to be good but not the dragons? anything with intellgence is bound to have exeptions to what everyone beleaves they are.

... i need to stop wrighting stuff when sleep deprived, ramble to much on odd topics...