EverQuest II’s Sixth Expansion, Sentinel’s Fate, Pre-order Starts Today! - Page 31

Llogwey · 01-13-2010, 04:08 PM

I understand that Kiara has sympathy for us and well I think she does, otherwise I don't think this thread would have been allowed to reach 60 pages but would have been closed quite some time ago On the other hand, leaving a place for people to criticize, put their disapointment and anger is a very good way to contain this disapointment in a single place, if this thread had been close I suppose it would have continued or the problem would have been advertised in MANY more places than simply here... Many players (majority of it) is not aware at all of the international distribution problem ingame. and when I talked to them about it they consider it a shame but are not aware because it is not "such a public" problem as it seems.. it is contained.. in this thread alone... Also many people at SOE , devs who care for international people, are not aware the least of all about this problem and when they learned it some were sad but indeed could do nothing... it's a "boss matters" I think that if you want to be heard by SOE and if you want SOE to begin considering the "weight" the international community may have, someone needs to post in several other places, contact online and real life press to release articles about this fiasco... I don't want to create problems with all of SOE because EQ2 is a greatgame with very good devs working on it, but if there is a threat of "bad publicity" and "counter-advertising" of the BRAND SOE about all their existing and potentially future products... maybe even Smed may consider solving the problem FAST and communicate personnaly... after all, even mister John Smedley may have superiors he has to report to....

(i save this post in case of moderation SMILEY so that I could be able to post it elsewhere it may not be moderated, we never know SMILEY I am only looking for diplomatic, strong but polite ways of letting the community be heard. Because honestly, I don't think cancelling subscription will hurt SOE at all, but an overall possibility of loosing future markets... or having SCE or even Sony Europe hear of this fiasco is another thing...

bradamante · 01-13-2010, 06:45 PM

I'm sad to say I've cancelled 2 accounts today. I think I've waited long enough to get a definitive answer, even if it is to be 'hard luck Europe and tRotW'. I am fairly sure now that the business boys and girls at SOE think that by taking no action, a good enough percentage of EU players will sit back and grumble, but still fork out their hard earned cash for the 23rd. Personally that wouldn't sit right with me given that this is essentially creating a 2nd class service. So I'm off!

I hope the marketing deal with the US retailers creates enough newbies on US servers to warrant the loss of a good number of EU accounts. Personally I know of 4 accounts who won't be back for Sentinel's Fate because of the creation of a two tier customer base.

TBH, personally I wouldn't like to start a game from scratch as complex as EQ2 has become after 5 years, it is too daunting. But maybe that's just me.

The Akulan · 01-13-2010, 07:13 PM

the best marketing resource that Sony Online Entertainment have is in this thread ... put plain and simple, US - happy, satisfied customers (and staff too)

I have seen no evidence of any marketing apart from the efforts of people like Kiara (thanks, very much appreciated) and the newsletter email - nothing at all.

one month to go now ... somebody's finger needs to be well and truly pulled out of where it currently is - NOW is the time to do it before 1/4 - 1/2 of paying customers decide to leave

I have seen other "entertainment" companies go through the levels along this road ...

1. nobody notices the people leaving, everybody wonders why the servers are progressively emptier

2. dissatisfied people make themselves known

3. people leave in disgust at nothing having been done about the situation

4. game servers are cancelled

5. company folds, or needs to have its liabilities covered by a parent company or taken over by someone else (that can run it?)

game over

my best guess has it that we are somewhere between level 2 and level 3 at the moment

StevusX · 01-13-2010, 07:35 PM

Well my wife has just cancelled her own account after reading about the current situation.

It was due for a 6 monthly renewal in March so SOE will lose out on that and a sale of an expansion.

My own account expires in May but i will cancel in the next month or so unless SOE sort out the situation for european customers..

As a guild leader and website administrator for my guild i want to tidy things up and pass over responsibilities before i go.

PS - No, you can't have our stuff cos we are leaving it to our guild

Timaarit · 01-14-2010, 07:57 AM

Well I am not cancelling my account yet. However if as a EU resident I cannot start with the new expansion when it is released, I will make my own conclusions about how much SOE really appreciates their international customers. Current lack of respect for international customers is horrible.

Anyway, I hope SOE will come to their senses and allow dd for international clients on the release day. As a resident of a small country I really dont expect any sort of game store to get the actual package for release.

Rinso2 · 01-14-2010, 08:39 AM

While this issue is of great concern to many EQ2 players, and I pointed out that this would happen on 15th November http://forums.station.sony.com/eq2/...topic_id=462641 - let's put things into some sort of perspective - YOU COULD LIVE IN HAITI!

Bariel · 01-14-2010, 09:04 AM

Quick question for Kiara - can you confirm that the non US servers, Runnyeye, etc, will be patched with the new xpack at the same time as the US servers please? If not, then the debate about retail availability is moot SMILEY

Siskiyou · 01-14-2010, 09:28 AM

Bariel wrote:

Quick question for Kiara - can you confirm that the non US servers, Runnyeye, etc, will be patched with the new xpack at the same time as the US servers please? If not, then the debate about retail availability is moot

Well, tell that to my friends in UK, Scandinavia, France, Germany, Australia, New Zeland, and Nepal. They all play on US English servers.

MrWolfie · 01-14-2010, 09:31 AM

Rinso2 wrote:

While this issue is of great concern to many EQ2 players, and I pointed out that this would happen on 15th November http://forums.station.sony.com/eq2/...topic_id=462641 - let's put things into some sort of perspective - YOU COULD LIVE IN HAITI!

Are they having trouble getting the expansion too?

SMILEY

mrsma · 01-14-2010, 10:55 AM

Please forward to the cough, cough Marketing dept.

and this - Which is available from all good bookshops - WORLDWIDE

Costa · 01-14-2010, 11:22 AM

I've been playing EQ2 for a little over 3 years now and have been enjoying it. With all this talk about retail boxes, free items and ability to get into the game 7days before official release i got fairly excited about it. Thats untill i see the posts and enquire that because i live in the UK i have to pay over exagerated prices to get these benefits. Now the free item i don't really care about but the ability to get to 90 before the DD hits is very much a major benefit on a pvp server. Afetr seeing these silly prices to get a box shipped from the US over to the UK i decided i would get an electronic version but then started thinking to my self, why are these costs so high??? Most of the people buying all of these retail boxes or doing digital download already play the game. Why do we need to purchase the previous expansions when we had to do that with TSO. The fact i've purchased all of those updates, game packs and expansions last year dosn't cut it for me to have to purchase it all again now to only get the benefit of 1 expansion.

If SOE wants to look after their existing player base then why not offer the DD as the expansion only to existing players and have the 7day head start. charge us £30 for that if you wish (would be interesting to see how SOE convert that to $'s) but don't force us to pay for items we've purchased twice before in the past and expect us to like it. I for one am not prepared to pay silly money for an expansion that in 6months time i will be at the end of my game as we don't hardcore raid and then sit twiddling my thumbs or have to think about making or leveling up more toons just to give me something to do.

Thank you for turning me away from game SOE major fail on marketing if you ask me on a game that is dieing.

msheaf · 01-14-2010, 11:35 AM

Bazill@Nagafen wrote:

If SOE wants to look after their existing player base then why not offer the DD as the expansion only to existing players and have the 7day head start.

Most likely their deal with Amazon/Gamestop doesn't allow them to do this. Sounds like the preorder deal precludes there doing any king of DD before the seven day head start is up.

Thunderthyze · 01-14-2010, 11:39 AM

The 2009 Game of the Year at MMORPG.com and the 2009 Community of the Year at Tentonhammer were won by a game released 6 years ago.

Ooh....was it EQ2?

Err......no.

Was it an SOE game?

Err.....no.

Was it even an American company that developed it?

Err....no.

Congratulations to CCP and their game EVE Online. Proof positive that by dealing with everyone fairly and equally you can have a great game and a community that backs it.

Bariel · 01-14-2010, 12:01 PM

Siskiyou wrote:

Bariel wrote:
Quick question for Kiara - can you confirm that the non US servers, Runnyeye, etc, will be patched with the new xpack at the same time as the US servers please? If not, then the debate about retail availability is moot
Well, tell that to my friends in UK, Scandinavia, France, Germany, Australia, New Zeland, and Nepal. They all play on US English servers.

Apologies - I meant that the point was moot to me - I did not mean to exclude those non US based people, who play on US servers

Alienor · 01-14-2010, 12:19 PM

Ekum@Everfrost wrote:

Bazill@Nagafen wrote:
If SOE wants to look after their existing player base then why not offer the DD as the expansion only to existing players and have the 7day head start.
Most likely their deal with Amazon/Gamestop doesn't allow them to do this. Sounds like the preorder deal precludes there doing any king of DD before the seven day head start is up.

Additionally we already had that with EoF or RoK and people were confused. I remember also a hell of an uproar about veterans not be treated equally etc. Hence the decision to ship only a all-in-one box.

kahonen · 01-14-2010, 02:23 PM

Has anyone else considered the possibility that this is not a marketing decision?

Remember the hassle in Sanctum of the Scaleborn when KoS was released when everyone was camping the same mobs?

Think back to what a PITA it was in Moors collecting bits for quests around the airship site when TSO was released.

Now, given the fact that many of the dungeon areas in SF are not group instances but free-for-all areas that any number of people can go into, what better way for SOE to slow down one group of player's progress until another group has progressed past the start area? You know, impose a staggered start on the expansion by allowing the first group access on 16th Feb and the rest access (for the sake of argument) a week later.

Don't get me wrong, I'm not supporting this in any way. I've already posted on this thread my frustrations at not being able to start straight away. Just making a suggestion for why this decision may have been made and SOE's reluctance to do anything about changing it.

Seffrid · 01-14-2010, 02:41 PM

I think that's way off-beam, kahonen, not least in relation to Splitpaw where most players are presumably European and are therefore being denied the headstart access.

I think it's a simple case as we've seen so often before of the non-US players being treated like second-class subscribers, no more no less. I doubt the point even occurred to anyone until it was raised by the players, because all too often they simply don't think outside their own borders, and now they don't have a clue how to address it and are therefore staying away from the forum and leaving Kiara to keep us sweet with the "I don't have anything I can tell you" company mantra.

Unfortunately for SOE it isn't working, as is evidenced by the significant number who have either cancelled or have indicated that they will do so if this issue isn't resolved.

Time for either Brenlo or Smed to step up to the line and give us an answer, no doubt about it. I simply can't believe they still haven't done so, it's utterly extraordinary.

Llogwey · 01-14-2010, 03:01 PM

well that's what I somehow meant earlier... maybe Smed is not even aware of the gravity of the problem... or how explosive it is... Kiara job is to be the middleman between SOE bosses and services and us... it works in both way... she relates what the "marketing dpt" says or does not say...but did Kiara talk about this problem to OTHER people than those "assumed to be" the responsible (marketing) I mean... has Kiara gone and talked to Brenlo and Smed telling them "ahem there is a big problem with the international community, I really think you'd better look at this topic"... or did Kiara tell them 'there is a problem with distribution, but I take care of it and with the marketing dpt don't worry"... Put in two words... Kiara... did you warn brenlo and , considering the importance of the matter, Smed himself about the gravity of the problem and about THIS very thread? If Brenlo and Smed are aware of THIS thread and prefer to stay silent until a solution is found ok...at least we know they are aware... personnally... But are they? Did you talk to THE boss, or "only" the marketing dpt? if only the marketing dpt are aware and not the real bosses... then there is a big problem...

Indeed there is always the possibility that SOE weighs the costs... counting how many upset players have or will cancel their account compared to their overall player pool and indeed they do not care about loosing even the whole international community if it's worth the loss... maybe it is... But Kiara assures us of the contrary... Well, I ask for proofs SMILEY I think the community deserves proofs and a proof would be that brenlo at least posts here... otherway Kiara's word will very shortly not be taken seriously at all...

NormalMormon · 01-14-2010, 03:10 PM

Seffrid wrote:

I think that's way off-beam, kahonen, not least in relation to Splitpaw where most players are presumably European and are therefore being denied the headstart access.

I think it's a simple case as we've seen so often before of the non-US players being treated like second-class subscribers, no more no less. I doubt the point even occurred to anyone until it was raised by the players, because all too often they simply don't think outside their own borders, and now they don't have a clue how to address it and are therefore staying away from the forum and leaving Kiara to keep us sweet with the "I don't have anything I can tell you" company mantra.

Unfortunately for SOE it isn't working, as is evidenced by the significant number who have either cancelled or have indicated that they will do so if this issue isn't resolved.

Time for either Brenlo or Smed to step up to the line and give us an answer, no doubt about it. I simply can't believe they still haven't done so, it's utterly extraordinary.

This tbh ^^^

Avirodar · 01-14-2010, 03:29 PM

Seffrid wrote:

Time for either Brenlo or Smed to step up to the line and give us an answer, no doubt about it. I simply can't believe they still haven't done so, it's utterly extraordinary.

Chances are the only reason Brenlo or Smed have not given us an answer, is they know they will be faced with droves of immediate subscription cancellations. So they do what all of SOE does best, hide in the dark and avoid customers in any way possible.Think about it... If someone high up in SOE announced on a public medium "Rest of the world : we dont care one shred about any of you. We knowingly made a deal to benefit Americans, and discriminate against the rest of the world", SOE would be sent flying back into the dark ages from the combination of flaming and cancelled subs.I have no doubt that SOE is in damage control mode, hoping that Feb 23rd comes to pass with minimal casualties to the subscription base. The SOE-EQ2 team deserves to suffer for this one, and I hope they do. Otherwise, they will think they can get away with pulling similar garbage in the future.The fact that 2 full months have passed and all we have been told is "I have no information" by Kiara, is pathetic.Job security must be good in SOE. For now.

andycunny · 01-14-2010, 03:32 PM

and still the silence continues. Do you have any idea what you are doing to the reputation of your company? i have run out of words to explain how .........

absolutely [ˌæbsəˈluːtlɪ]

adv

in an absolute manner, esp completely or perfectly

sentence substitute

yes; certainly; unquestionably

flabbergasted [ˈflæbəˌgɑːstɪd]

adj

Informal overcome with astonishment; amazed; astounded

I am about this entire .....

fiasco [fɪˈæskəʊ]

n pl -cos, -coes

a complete failure, esp one that is ignominious or humiliating

andycunny · 01-14-2010, 03:38 PM

Llogwey wrote:

well that's what I somehow meant earlier... maybe Smed is not even aware of the gravity of the problem... or how explosive it is... Kiara job is to be the middleman between SOE bosses and services and us... it works in both way... she relates what the "marketing dpt" says or does not say...but did Kiara talk about this problem to OTHER people than those "assumed to be" the responsible (marketing) I mean... has Kiara gone and talked to Brenlo and Smed telling them "ahem there is a big problem with the international community, I really think you'd better look at this topic"... or did Kiara tell them 'there is a problem with distribution, but I take care of it and with the marketing dpt don't worry"... Put in two words... Kiara... did you warn brenlo and , considering the importance of the matter, Smed himself about the gravity of the problem and about THIS very thread? If Brenlo and Smed are aware of THIS thread and prefer to stay silent until a solution is found ok...at least we know they are aware... personnally... But are they? Did you talk to THE boss, or "only" the marketing dpt? if only the marketing dpt are aware and not the real bosses... then there is a big problem...
Indeed there is always the possibility that SOE weighs the costs... counting how many upset players have or will cancel their account compared to their overall player pool and indeed they do not care about loosing even the whole international community if it's worth the loss... maybe it is... But Kiara assures us of the contrary... Well, I ask for proofs I think the community deserves proofs and a proof would be that brenlo at least posts here... otherway Kiara's word will very shortly not be taken seriously at all...

Smed knows.

Llogwey · 01-14-2010, 03:44 PM

... but he does not answer... I too wrote to John Smedley directly (i have his email) and he read my mail (reading receipt) but no answer...

Obadiah · 01-14-2010, 04:26 PM

Llogwey wrote:

well that's what I somehow meant earlier... maybe Smed is not even aware of the gravity of the problem... or how explosive it is...

I think everyone is fully aware of it. But I'm not convinced it's really that explosive tbh. Yes, it upsets a lot of people here and quite understandably so, but there's not a peep about it anywhere that matters - i.e. any major gaming site, not an EQ2 site or these forums. Obviously it's not really a big deal, and hey ... it's not like it's the first time a game has done this.

I don't think people should be holding these retailers as blameless as they are either. I'm sure SOE doesn't want to throw any or all of them under the bus, but who is holding whom back from doing what? SOE stands to gain the most from allowing overseas downloads at launch. That's been a true statement from the get-go, and no one knows it more than they do.

It's too bad people put such an emphasis on copies of the game being in stores. So we have to come up with contrived means to attempt to make brick and mortar outlets relevant. It's 2010 for crying out loud, who really cares what's on shelves?

Kiara · 01-14-2010, 04:45 PM

Bariel wrote:

Quick question for Kiara - can you confirm that the non US servers, Runnyeye, etc, will be patched with the new xpack at the same time as the US servers please? If not, then the debate about retail availability is moot

All the servers will patch at the same time. I'll be posting a schedule closer to release day, just so everyone knows what to expect. But the plan is that the servers will be up and ready for folks to begin patching their games by 8am PST.

crunn · 01-14-2010, 04:47 PM

Kurgan@Everfrost wrote:

/snip
It's too bad people put such an emphasis on copies of the game being in stores. So we have to come up with contrived means to attempt to make brick and mortar outlets relevant. It's 2010 for crying out loud, who really cares what's on shelves?

Not me, for many years now i buy the digital download on any game that offers it. Its usualy cheeper, faster and environmentaly friendly. For those that dont offer digital i buy from an online shop. I dont actualy remember the last time i stepped foot in any shop that primaraly sells games/dvd/books/etc

SquirrelMaximus · 01-14-2010, 04:47 PM

Kiara wrote:

Bariel wrote:
Quick question for Kiara - can you confirm that the non US servers, Runnyeye, etc, will be patched with the new xpack at the same time as the US servers please? If not, then the debate about retail availability is moot
All the servers will patch at the same time. I'll be posting a schedule closer to release day, just so everyone knows what to expect. But the plan is that the servers will be up and ready for folks to begin patching their games by 8am PST.

Do we get a proper update yet for us poor sods that happen to live outside the US?

Stuntie · 01-14-2010, 04:49 PM

Kurgan@Everfrost wrote:

Llogwey wrote:
well that's what I somehow meant earlier... maybe Smed is not even aware of the gravity of the problem... or how explosive it is...
I think everyone is fully aware of it. But I'm not convinced it's really that explosive tbh. Yes, it upsets a lot of people here and quite understandably so, but there's not a peep about it anywhere that matters - i.e. any major gaming site, not an EQ2 site or these forums. Obviously it's not really a big deal, and hey ... it's not like it's the first time a game has done this.
I don't think people should be holding these retailers as blameless as they are either. I'm sure SOE doesn't want to throw any or all of them under the bus, but who is holding whom back from doing what? SOE stands to gain the most from allowing overseas downloads at launch. That's been a true statement from the get-go, and no one knows it more than they do.
It's too bad people put such an emphasis on copies of the game being in stores. So we have to come up with contrived means to attempt to make brick and mortar outlets relevant. It's 2010 for crying out loud, who really cares what's on shelves?

So basically you are saying that getting a second rate service with second rate goods is fine? And that we should just 'get over it'.

The retail boxes give 7 days headstart and other pre-order bonuses (depending on box version) that are not available with the Download.

If we could get them WITH the download there would be no argument. But they are restricted to retail boxed copies only. And we can not get the boxes copies without paying double or more for the boxes and having no guarentee of them even arriving on launch day. We have no options that will allow us in game, with the bonuses and headstart. Only the late bonusless download option. And even that is at a higher price than retail boxes generally sell at!

It's not explosive to those in the US as it doesnt affect their options at all. Are you a US customer with those options denied to non US customers - I bet so. Otherwise the issue would be explosive.

More galling that that though, is the total contempt shown by SOE by their total lack of acknowledgement of the situation, and total lack of communication about it (and no, 'waiting for news' for 8 weeks is not communication). It smacks of a "LA LA LA LA I'm not listening! Go way I'm Ignoring you!" attitude, where they think that if you ignore the problem it doesnt exist.

rollando · 01-14-2010, 04:51 PM

SOE are making a very big mistake here. I understand they see EQ2 as an old game and want to reduce their costs at all price, eg by getting rid off their non-US customers.

What they forget is that these customers are also often active on their local MMO-related boards, and that such an attitude from a company is being discussed. A lot.

Someday they'll want to release another game. They'll want customers all around the world, like every successful MMO company working on the American market. It won't be easy with such a terrible reputation...

Stuntie · 01-14-2010, 04:53 PM

Tifs@Splitpaw wrote:

SOE are making a very big mistake here. I understand they see EQ2 as an old game and want to reduce their costs at all price, eg by getting rid off their non-US customers.
What they forget is that these customers are also often active on their local MMO-related boards, and that such an attitude from a company is being discussed. A lot.
Someday they'll want to release another game. They'll want customers all around the world, like every successful MMO company working on the American market. It won't be easy with such a terrible reputation...

There is a saying that I think sums up such circumstances.

You get good service and you tell your friends.You get bad service and you tell everyone.

01-13-2010, 04:08 PM	#901
Llogwey Tester Join Date: Apr 2005 Location: Montpellier FRANCE Posts: 330	I understand that Kiara has sympathy for us and well I think she does, otherwise I don't think this thread would have been allowed to reach 60 pages but would have been closed quite some time ago On the other hand, leaving a place for people to criticize, put their disapointment and anger is a very good way to contain this disapointment in a single place, if this thread had been close I suppose it would have continued or the problem would have been advertised in MANY more places than simply here... Many players (majority of it) is not aware at all of the international distribution problem ingame. and when I talked to them about it they consider it a shame but are not aware because it is not "such a public" problem as it seems.. it is contained.. in this thread alone... Also many people at SOE , devs who care for international people, are not aware the least of all about this problem and when they learned it some were sad but indeed could do nothing... it's a "boss matters" I think that if you want to be heard by SOE and if you want SOE to begin considering the "weight" the international community may have, someone needs to post in several other places, contact online and real life press to release articles about this fiasco... I don't want to create problems with all of SOE because EQ2 is a greatgame with very good devs working on it, but if there is a threat of "bad publicity" and "counter-advertising" of the BRAND SOE about all their existing and potentially future products... maybe even Smed may consider solving the problem FAST and communicate personnaly... after all, even mister John Smedley may have superiors he has to report to.... (i save this post in case of moderation so that I could be able to post it elsewhere it may not be moderated, we never know I am only looking for diplomatic, strong but polite ways of letting the community be heard. Because honestly, I don't think cancelling subscription will hurt SOE at all, but an overall possibility of loosing future markets... or having SCE or even Sony Europe hear of this fiasco is another thing... __________________ Llogwey Greenfire, the lonely Ranger

01-13-2010, 07:35 PM	#904
StevusX Loremaster Join Date: Apr 2005 Posts: 116	Well my wife has just cancelled her own account after reading about the current situation. It was due for a 6 monthly renewal in March so SOE will lose out on that and a sale of an expansion. My own account expires in May but i will cancel in the next month or so unless SOE sort out the situation for european customers.. As a guild leader and website administrator for my guild i want to tidy things up and pass over responsibilities before i go. PS - No, you can't have our stuff cos we are leaving it to our guild __________________ â€¢ Lord Grimheart Grumpytoes â€¢ Guild Leader, Ascended Heroes, Runnyeye â€¢ Templar, Tailor, Tinker

01-14-2010, 09:04 AM	#907
Bariel Loremaster Join Date: Nov 2004 Posts: 22	Quick question for Kiara - can you confirm that the non US servers, Runnyeye, etc, will be patched with the new xpack at the same time as the US servers please? If not, then the debate about retail availability is moot __________________

01-14-2010, 09:28 AM	#908
Siskiyou Loremaster Join Date: Jun 2008 Location: Coos Bay, Oregon, USA Posts: 103	Bariel wrote: Quick question for Kiara - can you confirm that the non US servers, Runnyeye, etc, will be patched with the new xpack at the same time as the US servers please? If not, then the debate about retail availability is moot Well, tell that to my friends in UK, Scandinavia, France, Germany, Australia, New Zeland, and Nepal. They all play on US English servers. __________________

01-14-2010, 09:31 AM	#909
MrWolfie Loremaster Join Date: Nov 2004 Location: Agent of Chaos Guildhall, North Qeynos, Splitpaw. Posts: 1,239	Rinso2 wrote: While this issue is of great concern to many EQ2 players, and I pointed out that this would happen on 15th November http://forums.station.sony.com/eq2/...topic_id=462641 - let's put things into some sort of perspective - YOU COULD LIVE IN HAITI! Are they having trouble getting the expansion too? __________________

01-13-2010, 06:45 PM	#902
bradamante Loremaster Join Date: Mar 2005 Location: UK Posts: 12	I'm sad to say I've cancelled 2 accounts today. I think I've waited long enough to get a definitive answer, even if it is to be 'hard luck Europe and tRotW'. I am fairly sure now that the business boys and girls at SOE think that by taking no action, a good enough percentage of EU players will sit back and grumble, but still fork out their hard earned cash for the 23rd. Personally that wouldn't sit right with me given that this is essentially creating a 2nd class service. So I'm off! I hope the marketing deal with the US retailers creates enough newbies on US servers to warrant the loss of a good number of EU accounts. Personally I know of 4 accounts who won't be back for Sentinel's Fate because of the creation of a two tier customer base. TBH, personally I wouldn't like to start a game from scratch as complex as EQ2 has become after 5 years, it is too daunting. But maybe that's just me.

01-13-2010, 07:13 PM	#903
The Akulan Loremaster Join Date: Jan 2006 Location: North Wales, UK Posts: 21	the best marketing resource that Sony Online Entertainment have is in this thread ... put plain and simple, US - happy, satisfied customers (and staff too) I have seen no evidence of any marketing apart from the efforts of people like Kiara (thanks, very much appreciated) and the newsletter email - nothing at all. one month to go now ... somebody's finger needs to be well and truly pulled out of where it currently is - NOW is the time to do it before 1/4 - 1/2 of paying customers decide to leave I have seen other "entertainment" companies go through the levels along this road ... 1. nobody notices the people leaving, everybody wonders why the servers are progressively emptier 2. dissatisfied people make themselves known 3. people leave in disgust at nothing having been done about the situation 4. game servers are cancelled 5. company folds, or needs to have its liabilities covered by a parent company or taken over by someone else (that can run it?) game over my best guess has it that we are somewhere between level 2 and level 3 at the moment

01-14-2010, 07:57 AM	#905
Timaarit Loremaster Join Date: Feb 2005 Posts: 1,462	Well I am not cancelling my account yet. However if as a EU resident I cannot start with the new expansion when it is released, I will make my own conclusions about how much SOE really appreciates their international customers. Current lack of respect for international customers is horrible. Anyway, I hope SOE will come to their senses and allow dd for international clients on the release day. As a resident of a small country I really dont expect any sort of game store to get the actual package for release.

01-14-2010, 08:39 AM	#906
Rinso2 Lord Join Date: Jan 2008 Location: United Kingdom Posts: 3	While this issue is of great concern to many EQ2 players, and I pointed out that this would happen on 15th November http://forums.station.sony.com/eq2/...topic_id=462641 - let's put things into some sort of perspective - YOU COULD LIVE IN HAITI!

01-14-2010, 10:55 AM	#910
mrsma General Join Date: Sep 2007 Location: England - London Posts: 331	Please forward to the cough, cough Marketing dept. and this - Which is available from all good bookshops - WORLDWIDE __________________

01-14-2010, 11:22 AM	#911
Costa Server: Nagafen Guild: Black Rose Rank: Officer's Alts Loremaster Join Date: Dec 2008 Location: UK Posts: 297	I've been playing EQ2 for a little over 3 years now and have been enjoying it. With all this talk about retail boxes, free items and ability to get into the game 7days before official release i got fairly excited about it. Thats untill i see the posts and enquire that because i live in the UK i have to pay over exagerated prices to get these benefits. Now the free item i don't really care about but the ability to get to 90 before the DD hits is very much a major benefit on a pvp server. Afetr seeing these silly prices to get a box shipped from the US over to the UK i decided i would get an electronic version but then started thinking to my self, why are these costs so high??? Most of the people buying all of these retail boxes or doing digital download already play the game. Why do we need to purchase the previous expansions when we had to do that with TSO. The fact i've purchased all of those updates, game packs and expansions last year dosn't cut it for me to have to purchase it all again now to only get the benefit of 1 expansion. If SOE wants to look after their existing player base then why not offer the DD as the expansion only to existing players and have the 7day head start. charge us £30 for that if you wish (would be interesting to see how SOE convert that to $'s) but don't force us to pay for items we've purchased twice before in the past and expect us to like it. I for one am not prepared to pay silly money for an expansion that in 6months time i will be at the end of my game as we don't hardcore raid and then sit twiddling my thumbs or have to think about making or leveling up more toons just to give me something to do. Thank you for turning me away from game SOE major fail on marketing if you ask me on a game that is dieing. __________________

01-14-2010, 11:35 AM	#912
msheaf Tester Join Date: Dec 2004 Posts: 213	Bazill@Nagafen wrote: If SOE wants to look after their existing player base then why not offer the DD as the expansion only to existing players and have the 7day head start. Most likely their deal with Amazon/Gamestop doesn't allow them to do this. Sounds like the preorder deal precludes there doing any king of DD before the seven day head start is up.

01-14-2010, 11:39 AM	#913
Thunderthyze Loremaster Join Date: Sep 2005 Location: Old South Wales Posts: 2,050	The 2009 Game of the Year at MMORPG.com and the 2009 Community of the Year at Tentonhammer were won by a game released 6 years ago. Ooh....was it EQ2? Err......no. Was it an SOE game? Err.....no. Was it even an American company that developed it? Err....no. Congratulations to CCP and their game EVE Online. Proof positive that by dealing with everyone fairly and equally you can have a great game and a community that backs it. __________________

01-14-2010, 12:01 PM	#914
Bariel Loremaster Join Date: Nov 2004 Posts: 22	Siskiyou wrote: Bariel wrote: Quick question for Kiara - can you confirm that the non US servers, Runnyeye, etc, will be patched with the new xpack at the same time as the US servers please? If not, then the debate about retail availability is moot Well, tell that to my friends in UK, Scandinavia, France, Germany, Australia, New Zeland, and Nepal. They all play on US English servers. Apologies - I meant that the point was moot to me - I did not mean to exclude those non US based people, who play on US servers __________________

01-14-2010, 12:19 PM	#915
Alienor Loremaster Join Date: Sep 2005 Posts: 1,393	Ekum@Everfrost wrote: Bazill@Nagafen wrote: If SOE wants to look after their existing player base then why not offer the DD as the expansion only to existing players and have the 7day head start. Most likely their deal with Amazon/Gamestop doesn't allow them to do this. Sounds like the preorder deal precludes there doing any king of DD before the seven day head start is up. Additionally we already had that with EoF or RoK and people were confused. I remember also a hell of an uproar about veterans not be treated equally etc. Hence the decision to ship only a all-in-one box.

01-14-2010, 02:23 PM	#916
kahonen Loremaster Join Date: Jan 2005 Posts: 320	Has anyone else considered the possibility that this is not a marketing decision? Remember the hassle in Sanctum of the Scaleborn when KoS was released when everyone was camping the same mobs? Think back to what a PITA it was in Moors collecting bits for quests around the airship site when TSO was released. Now, given the fact that many of the dungeon areas in SF are not group instances but free-for-all areas that any number of people can go into, what better way for SOE to slow down one group of player's progress until another group has progressed past the start area? You know, impose a staggered start on the expansion by allowing the first group access on 16th Feb and the rest access (for the sake of argument) a week later. Don't get me wrong, I'm not supporting this in any way. I've already posted on this thread my frustrations at not being able to start straight away. Just making a suggestion for why this decision may have been made and SOE's reluctance to do anything about changing it.

01-14-2010, 02:41 PM	#917
Seffrid Loremaster Join Date: Nov 2004 Posts: 583	I think that's way off-beam, kahonen, not least in relation to Splitpaw where most players are presumably European and are therefore being denied the headstart access. I think it's a simple case as we've seen so often before of the non-US players being treated like second-class subscribers, no more no less. I doubt the point even occurred to anyone until it was raised by the players, because all too often they simply don't think outside their own borders, and now they don't have a clue how to address it and are therefore staying away from the forum and leaving Kiara to keep us sweet with the "I don't have anything I can tell you" company mantra. Unfortunately for SOE it isn't working, as is evidenced by the significant number who have either cancelled or have indicated that they will do so if this issue isn't resolved. Time for either Brenlo or Smed to step up to the line and give us an answer, no doubt about it. I simply can't believe they still haven't done so, it's utterly extraordinary.

01-14-2010, 03:01 PM	#918
Llogwey Tester Join Date: Apr 2005 Location: Montpellier FRANCE Posts: 330	well that's what I somehow meant earlier... maybe Smed is not even aware of the gravity of the problem... or how explosive it is... Kiara job is to be the middleman between SOE bosses and services and us... it works in both way... she relates what the "marketing dpt" says or does not say...but did Kiara talk about this problem to OTHER people than those "assumed to be" the responsible (marketing) I mean... has Kiara gone and talked to Brenlo and Smed telling them "ahem there is a big problem with the international community, I really think you'd better look at this topic"... or did Kiara tell them 'there is a problem with distribution, but I take care of it and with the marketing dpt don't worry"... Put in two words... Kiara... did you warn brenlo and , considering the importance of the matter, Smed himself about the gravity of the problem and about THIS very thread? If Brenlo and Smed are aware of THIS thread and prefer to stay silent until a solution is found ok...at least we know they are aware... personnally... But are they? Did you talk to THE boss, or "only" the marketing dpt? if only the marketing dpt are aware and not the real bosses... then there is a big problem... Indeed there is always the possibility that SOE weighs the costs... counting how many upset players have or will cancel their account compared to their overall player pool and indeed they do not care about loosing even the whole international community if it's worth the loss... maybe it is... But Kiara assures us of the contrary... Well, I ask for proofs I think the community deserves proofs and a proof would be that brenlo at least posts here... otherway Kiara's word will very shortly not be taken seriously at all... __________________ Llogwey Greenfire, the lonely Ranger

01-14-2010, 03:10 PM	#919
NormalMormon Loremaster Join Date: Jun 2005 Posts: 38	Seffrid wrote: I think that's way off-beam, kahonen, not least in relation to Splitpaw where most players are presumably European and are therefore being denied the headstart access. I think it's a simple case as we've seen so often before of the non-US players being treated like second-class subscribers, no more no less. I doubt the point even occurred to anyone until it was raised by the players, because all too often they simply don't think outside their own borders, and now they don't have a clue how to address it and are therefore staying away from the forum and leaving Kiara to keep us sweet with the "I don't have anything I can tell you" company mantra. Unfortunately for SOE it isn't working, as is evidenced by the significant number who have either cancelled or have indicated that they will do so if this issue isn't resolved. *Time for either Brenlo or Smed to step up to the line and give us an answer, no doubt about it. I simply can't believe they still haven't done so, it's utterly extraordinary.* This tbh ^^^

01-14-2010, 03:29 PM	#920
Avirodar Server: Oasis Guild: Tyranny Rank: Champion Loremaster Join Date: Dec 2005 Posts: 2,035	Seffrid wrote: Time for either Brenlo or Smed to step up to the line and give us an answer, no doubt about it. I simply can't believe they still haven't done so, it's utterly extraordinary. Chances are the only reason Brenlo or Smed have not given us an answer, is they know they will be faced with droves of immediate subscription cancellations. So they do what all of SOE does best, hide in the dark and avoid customers in any way possible.Think about it... If someone high up in SOE announced on a public medium "Rest of the world : we dont care one shred about any of you. We knowingly made a deal to benefit Americans, and discriminate against the rest of the world", SOE would be sent flying back into the dark ages from the combination of flaming and cancelled subs.I have no doubt that SOE is in damage control mode, hoping that Feb 23rd comes to pass with minimal casualties to the subscription base. The SOE-EQ2 team deserves to suffer for this one, and I hope they do. Otherwise, they will think they can get away with pulling similar garbage in the future.The fact that 2 full months have passed and all we have been told is "I have no information" by Kiara, is pathetic.Job security must be good in SOE. For now. __________________ Templar of Oasis

01-14-2010, 03:32 PM	#921
andycunny Loremaster Join Date: Oct 2005 Posts: 80	and still the silence continues. Do you have any idea what you are doing to the reputation of your company? i have run out of words to explain how ......... absolutely [ˌæbsəˈluːtlɪ] adv in an absolute manner, esp completely or perfectly sentence substitute yes; certainly; unquestionably flabbergasted [ˈflæbəˌgɑːstɪd] adj Informal overcome with astonishment; amazed; astounded I am about this entire ..... fiasco [fɪˈæskəʊ] n pl -cos, -coes a complete failure, esp one that is ignominious or humiliating __________________

01-14-2010, 03:38 PM	#922
andycunny Loremaster Join Date: Oct 2005 Posts: 80	Llogwey wrote: well that's what I somehow meant earlier... maybe Smed is not even aware of the gravity of the problem... or how explosive it is... Kiara job is to be the middleman between SOE bosses and services and us... it works in both way... she relates what the "marketing dpt" says or does not say...but did Kiara talk about this problem to OTHER people than those "assumed to be" the responsible (marketing) I mean... has Kiara gone and talked to Brenlo and Smed telling them "ahem there is a big problem with the international community, I really think you'd better look at this topic"... or did Kiara tell them 'there is a problem with distribution, but I take care of it and with the marketing dpt don't worry"... Put in two words... Kiara... did you warn brenlo and , considering the importance of the matter, Smed himself about the gravity of the problem and about THIS very thread? If Brenlo and Smed are aware of THIS thread and prefer to stay silent until a solution is found ok...at least we know they are aware... personnally... But are they? Did you talk to THE boss, or "only" the marketing dpt? if only the marketing dpt are aware and not the real bosses... then there is a big problem... Indeed there is always the possibility that SOE weighs the costs... counting how many upset players have or will cancel their account compared to their overall player pool and indeed they do not care about loosing even the whole international community if it's worth the loss... maybe it is... But Kiara assures us of the contrary... Well, I ask for proofs I think the community deserves proofs and a proof would be that brenlo at least posts here... otherway Kiara's word will very shortly not be taken seriously at all... Smed knows. __________________

01-14-2010, 03:44 PM	#923
Llogwey Tester Join Date: Apr 2005 Location: Montpellier FRANCE Posts: 330	... but he does not answer... I too wrote to John Smedley directly (i have his email) and he read my mail (reading receipt) but no answer... __________________ Llogwey Greenfire, the lonely Ranger

01-14-2010, 04:26 PM	#924
Obadiah Loremaster Join Date: Nov 2004 Posts: 2,154	Llogwey wrote: well that's what I somehow meant earlier... maybe Smed is not even aware of the gravity of the problem... or how explosive it is... I think everyone is fully aware of it. But I'm not convinced it's really that explosive tbh. Yes, it upsets a lot of people here and quite understandably so, but there's not a peep about it anywhere that matters - i.e. any major gaming site, not an EQ2 site or these forums. Obviously it's not really a big deal, and hey ... it's not like it's the first time a game has done this. I don't think people should be holding these retailers as blameless as they are either. I'm sure SOE doesn't want to throw any or all of them under the bus, but who is holding whom back from doing what? SOE stands to gain the most from allowing overseas downloads at launch. That's been a true statement from the get-go, and no one knows it more than they do. It's too bad people put such an emphasis on copies of the game being in stores. So we have to come up with contrived means to attempt to make brick and mortar outlets relevant. It's 2010 for crying out loud, who really cares what's on shelves? __________________

01-14-2010, 04:45 PM	#925
Kiara Community Relations Join Date: Jul 2008 Posts: 4,359	Bariel wrote: Quick question for Kiara - can you confirm that the non US servers, Runnyeye, etc, will be patched with the new xpack at the same time as the US servers please? If not, then the debate about retail availability is moot All the servers will patch at the same time. I'll be posting a schedule closer to release day, just so everyone knows what to expect. But the plan is that the servers will be up and ready for folks to begin patching their games by 8am PST.

01-14-2010, 04:47 PM	#926
crunn Loremaster Join Date: Nov 2004 Posts: 135	Kurgan@Everfrost wrote: /snip It's too bad people put such an emphasis on copies of the game being in stores. So we have to come up with contrived means to attempt to make brick and mortar outlets relevant. It's 2010 for crying out loud, who really cares what's on shelves? Not me, for many years now i buy the digital download on any game that offers it. Its usualy cheeper, faster and environmentaly friendly. For those that dont offer digital i buy from an online shop. I dont actualy remember the last time i stepped foot in any shop that primaraly sells games/dvd/books/etc

01-14-2010, 04:47 PM	#927
SquirrelMaximus Loremaster Join Date: Nov 2006 Posts: 4	Kiara wrote: Bariel wrote: Quick question for Kiara - can you confirm that the non US servers, Runnyeye, etc, will be patched with the new xpack at the same time as the US servers please? If not, then the debate about retail availability is moot All the servers will patch at the same time. I'll be posting a schedule closer to release day, just so everyone knows what to expect. But the plan is that the servers will be up and ready for folks to begin patching their games by 8am PST. Do we get a proper update yet for us poor sods that happen to live outside the US?

01-14-2010, 04:49 PM	#928
Stuntie Loremaster Join Date: Nov 2004 Posts: 64	Kurgan@Everfrost wrote: Llogwey wrote: well that's what I somehow meant earlier... maybe Smed is not even aware of the gravity of the problem... or how explosive it is... I think everyone is fully aware of it. But I'm not convinced it's really that explosive tbh. Yes, it upsets a lot of people here and quite understandably so, but there's not a peep about it anywhere that matters - i.e. any major gaming site, not an EQ2 site or these forums. Obviously it's not really a big deal, and hey ... it's not like it's the first time a game has done this. I don't think people should be holding these retailers as blameless as they are either. I'm sure SOE doesn't want to throw any or all of them under the bus, but who is holding whom back from doing what? SOE stands to gain the most from allowing overseas downloads at launch. That's been a true statement from the get-go, and no one knows it more than they do. It's too bad people put such an emphasis on copies of the game being in stores. So we have to come up with contrived means to attempt to make brick and mortar outlets relevant. It's 2010 for crying out loud, who really cares what's on shelves? So basically you are saying that getting a second rate service with second rate goods is fine? And that we should just 'get over it'. The retail boxes give 7 days headstart and other pre-order bonuses (depending on box version) that are not available with the Download. If we could get them WITH the download there would be no argument. But they are restricted to retail boxed copies only. And we can not get the boxes copies without paying double or more for the boxes and having no guarentee of them even arriving on launch day. We have no options that will allow us in game, with the bonuses and headstart. Only the late bonusless download option. And even that is at a higher price than retail boxes generally sell at! It's not explosive to those in the US as it doesnt affect their options at all. Are you a US customer with those options denied to non US customers - I bet so. Otherwise the issue would be explosive. More galling that that though, is the total contempt shown by SOE by their total lack of acknowledgement of the situation, and total lack of communication about it (and no, 'waiting for news' for 8 weeks is not communication). It smacks of a "LA LA LA LA I'm not listening! Go way I'm Ignoring you!" attitude, where they think that if you ignore the problem it doesnt exist. __________________ Cheers Stuntie.

01-14-2010, 04:51 PM	#929
rollando Loremaster Join Date: Nov 2004 Posts: 123	SOE are making a very big mistake here. I understand they see EQ2 as an old game and want to reduce their costs at all price, eg by getting rid off their non-US customers. What they forget is that these customers are also often active on their local MMO-related boards, and that such an attitude from a company is being discussed. A lot. Someday they'll want to release another game. They'll want customers all around the world, like every successful MMO company working on the American market. It won't be easy with such a terrible reputation...

01-14-2010, 04:53 PM	#930
Stuntie Loremaster Join Date: Nov 2004 Posts: 64	Tifs@Splitpaw wrote: SOE are making a very big mistake here. I understand they see EQ2 as an old game and want to reduce their costs at all price, eg by getting rid off their non-US customers. What they forget is that these customers are also often active on their local MMO-related boards, and that such an attitude from a company is being discussed. A lot. Someday they'll want to release another game. They'll want customers all around the world, like every successful MMO company working on the American market. It won't be easy with such a terrible reputation... There is a saying that I think sums up such circumstances. You get good service and you tell your friends.You get bad service and you tell everyone. __________________ Cheers Stuntie.