Focused Prayers, how it should be. (Heal stance)

[Paikis]

Focused PrayersTarget: SelfCasting: 2.0 secondsRecast: 5.0 secondsDuration: Until CancelledEffects:- Increases Heal Crit Bonus of caster by 5%- Increases the base heal amount of heal spells by 10%- Reduces damage of hostile spells by 25%- Increases casting speed of hostile spells by 20%- Reduces casting speed of Mark of Divinity by 20%- Reduces casting speed of Involuntary Gift by 20%- Reduces casting speed of Healing Fate by 20%You could make the arguement that Mark of Divinity should be excluded from the exclusion of the casting penalty (you get that?) because it has a debuff on it... but to anyone who would say this, I say that you can add the following line to Focused Prayers:- Removes the Divine Mitigation reduction from Mark of Divinity.That's right, you can take it. Remove the debuff from the spell. Go for your life. I don't think anyone would miss it.

A few other things I think would be worth looking into:

1. Glory - Make this trigger off spells as well as combat arts. Is there any reason for it not to?2. Shield of Faith - Make this count as a heal for the purpose of triggering procs. Shaman wards count as heals, why can't this one as well?3. Emergency Reactives - There was some talk about 'fixing' these and I'm all for it. In their current state they are all but useless for PvE. My personal choice would be to make them (very) large direct heals and to reduce their casting time to 5 minutes. Either that or make them complete heals (make it a 100% heal, not just a really big number).4. Unyielding Benediction - Can we let this trigger off spells as well? Or atleast allow it to absorb spell hits.5. Sanctuary - Add charm immunity please. Mystics get it on their Immunities spell.6. Mana Cure - Would be nice if this would store cures of the correct type, maybe give it a max of 5 stored cures and have them trigger instantly when someone recieves that type of detrimental.7. Focused Intervention - Remove the stun or increase the heal trigger by alot. At present this spell just doesn't get cast because the stun is too big of a draw back.

[RingleToo]

All good ideas, I think, except I'd rather not see changes made to Mark of Divinity. I'd like to see Glory and Unyielding Benediction trigger off spells, but I can understand why the devs might not want to do that - concern that the spells would be too powerful sort of thing. No reason not to add charm protection to Sanctuary, and definitely agree about Focused Intervention. The stun penalty is too severe for what the spell does. Not only does the trigger need to be increased but so does the heal amount. The spell is more likely to cause a wipe, because it doesn't do enough while perventing you from doing anything.

[Tehom]

Defiler stance already improves cast time for non-damaging hostile spells, although it's largely irrelevant for us due to curseweaving. I generally think all the heal stances should just follow that model, though.

As to the rest of it, I can't see any real argument to improving templar stoneskin. Templars are pretty balanced right now against other healers (except for druids being so far behind everyone else, of course), so it's hard to really argue any of us need anything significant aside from minor tweaks and fixes.

[Paikis]

We're not asking for improved casting times on our non-damage spells. We're asking for the casting speed PENALTY to not apply to our heal-procs, which happen to be counted as hostile spells because they have to be put on the mobs.

Glory: There is no reason NOT to have this trigger off spells. Lets say we're in a group with a shadowknight tank, and 4 mages? Other than the Shadowknight, we'd really have no one to put glory on... maybe if the necro/conj was using their scout pet it might work. The shadowknight uses a fair number of spells as well, so he'd have a lower number of procs than any of the warriors or brawlers as well.

Mark of Divinity: The only change I suggested was to remove it from the heal-stance penalty. If it costs me the 1k divine debuff to do it, then go ahead and do it.

The Unyielding Benediction change I suggested was mostly PvP based, however it would help alot with PvE if they ever get around to introducing mobs who use non-physical damage as their auto-attacks. Or mobs that are mostly spell damage.

[Tehom]

Yeah, it was more other classes have similar restrictions to the same sort of buffs as Glory which don't make particular sense either. Like there's no reason for Invective not to proc on spells, or fae fires, etc. Those are minor, though, and don't really affect much if you changed em all.

The change I thought would meaningfully affect balance was asking for stoneskin to be changed, since that's arguably the largest single advantage that templars have, and tinkering with it is probably a bad idea. There -are- a few mobs that are mostly spell damage in terms of spiking out tanks - Ykesha and Gynok's disease-based super-curse, assuming it isn't interrupted. Since those two were major mobs in the expansion, I think there's some justification for thinking they might reuse that model for a mob or two in the expansion.

[Kriptini]

This is the dumbest idea for our heal stance I've ever read.

[Paikis]

Kriptini@Everfrost wrote:

This is the dumbest idea for our heal stance I've ever read.

Comprehension FAIL!

Read it again. This is exactly what just about EVERY thread on the subject has been asking for since it was implimented.

[Sprin]

Paikis wrote:

Kriptini@Everfrost wrote:

This is the dumbest idea for our heal stance I've ever read.

Comprehension FAIL!

Read it again. This is exactly what just about EVERY thread on the subject has been asking for since it was implimented.

I would hate to see SOE reject the idea because you asked Templars to become BETTER heals with their heal stance....  SO i would propose instead:

"Increases casting speed of Hostile Spells.

        - Does not effect Non-Damage Debuffs"

(though this is wrong wording but it what is used currently with SOE not knowing English as a first language... as discussed elsewhere, as Increasing casting speed = faster casting, but hey, what can ya do?)

This way we are not asking for too much, just asking for it NOT to slow down our casts of our healing debuffs... though faster casting would be nice... but the stance doesnt speed up our casting of regular heals, so why would they give us our non damage debuffs faster casting?  I doubt they would...

Just a thought

[Paikis]

OK, since no one seems to be able to read what I wrote in the OP and understand it, i'll spell it out.

Paikis wrote:

Focused PrayersTarget: SelfCasting: 2.0 secondsRecast: 5.0 secondsDuration: Until CancelledEffects:- Increases Heal Crit Bonus of caster by 5%- Increases the base heal amount of heal spells by 10%- Reduces damage of hostile spells by 25%- Increases casting speed of hostile spells by 20%- Reduces casting speed of Mark of Divinity by 20%- Reduces casting speed of Involuntary Gift by 20%- Reduces casting speed of Healing Fate by 20%

The red section was a complete copy+paste from exactly what we have now. The yellow section is undoing the casting speed penalty on those 3 spells. You'll notice that it is a 20% reduction in casting speed (makes them cast faster) Which effectively means that those spells will not take 20% longer to cast, but our nukes will, our stun/daze and mit debuff will.

'Casting speed' is the time it takes to cast something. So if you increase it, then it will take longer to cast. Come on people, this is basic stuff.

[Kriptini]

Paikis wrote:

'Casting speed' is the time it takes to cast something. So if you increase it, then it will take longer to cast. Come on people, this is basic stuff.

Uh, no.

Casting Speed: How fast you cast a spell.

Casting Time: How long it takes to cast a spell.

Increasing your Casting Speed will increase how fast you cast a spell. Decreasing your Casting Speed will decrease how fast you cast a spell.

Increasing your Casting Time will increase how long it takes to cast a spell. Decreasing your Casting Time will decrease how long it takes to cast a spell.

Still don't get it? Let me put it this way:

Two horses are running from Freeport to Nek Forest. The Misty Mustang runs at 50 kilometers per hour, while the Steppes Pony only runs at 20 kilometers per hour. Assuming the horses take parallel paths with no turns or obstacles in the way, and neither of them get tired, which horse will make it to Nek Forest first?

Answer: The Misty Mustang, because it's SPEED is higher than the Steppes Pony. Thus, the higher your speed, the faster you go. Thus, the higher your casting speed, the faster you cast.

Now the two horses have a second race, but this time, we don't know how fast they're going. We do, however, know that it took the Misty Mustang 10 minutes to get to Nek Forest, while it took the Steppes Pony 25 minutes. So, which horse made it to Nek Forest first?

Answer: The Misty Mustang, because it took LESS TIME for it to get to its destination than the Steppes Pony. Thus, the lower your time, the higher your speed. Thus, the lower your casting time, the faster your spells cast.

[Tehom]

You're right about the definitions of speed versus time, Kriptini, but they've been using the word 'speed' incorrectly instead of 'time' in their descriptions for a while now.

[Crismorn]

My stoneskin and glory is not op'd enough, please make them better. 

- please add a group version of repent and give it > 20 sec re-use so it may compliment my other op'd ward.

- Please do something about me only being able to add 3600 health groupwide as well, this is unacceptable

[Sedenten]

All the healer stances need what was given to defilers--the hostile spell component needs to not affect non-damaging hostile spells (i.e. read:  debuffs).  Your heal-procs are still hostile debuffs, even if you leave off the divine mitigation debuff.  They are cast upon NPC's to force the NPC to heal their enemies, which is the exact same idea as bringing down their mitigations.  I'm in agreement that none of the priests should be penalized for debuffing an NPC at all unless that debuff does damage as well.  Mimic that part of the defiler heal stance and you have exactly what this thread is going for--your primary heal debuffs to not be adversely affected by your healing based stance.

The only other part of your post I disagree with is a change to Unyielding Benediction.  While it would be nice for the stoneskin to also proc off of and block spell effects it is extremely powerful in it's current state.  The same can be said about the Troubador/Dirge stoneskin effects--dirges have a song that procs off physical attacks that can block subsequent physical attacks while troubadors have a song that procs off spell based attacks that can block subsequent spell based attacks.  Of all of the templar abilities, Unyielding Benediction is the one least needing an upgrade.

And I do play a templar as well as defiler, so this has nothing to do with class envy

[Sprin]

Paikis wrote:

OK, since no one seems to be able to read what I wrote in the OP and understand it, i'll spell it out.

Paikis wrote:

Focused PrayersTarget: SelfCasting: 2.0 secondsRecast: 5.0 secondsDuration: Until CancelledEffects:- Increases Heal Crit Bonus of caster by 5%- Increases the base heal amount of heal spells by 10%- Reduces damage of hostile spells by 25%- Increases casting speed of hostile spells by 20%- Reduces casting speed of Mark of Divinity by 20%- Reduces casting speed of Involuntary Gift by 20%- Reduces casting speed of Healing Fate by 20%

The red section was a complete copy+paste from exactly what we have now. The yellow section is undoing the casting speed penalty on those 3 spells. You'll notice that it is a 20% reduction in casting speed (makes them cast faster) Which effectively means that those spells will not take 20% longer to cast, but our nukes will, our stun/daze and mit debuff will.

'Casting speed' is the time it takes to cast something. So if you increase it, then it will take longer to cast. Come on people, this is basic stuff.

LOL you just dont give up... you and SOE are both wrong and you just cant admit it... its very basic...   WE understand that SOE wrote it like that... but that doesnt make it right... you are wrong, and SOE is wrong...   read one of the many basic explanations of this simple error on SOE's part... just give it up man... we all know you are wrong, just admit it and move on..... 

[Paikis]

Ghettoblaster@Nagafen wrote:

LOL you just dont give up... you and SOE are both wrong and you just cant admit it... its very basic...   WE understand that SOE wrote it like that... but that doesnt make it right... you are wrong, and SOE is wrong...   read one of the many basic explanations of this simple error on SOE's part... just give it up man... we all know you are wrong, just admit it and move on..... 

So, if SOE does it wrong, and they ALWAYS do it wrong, and you KNOW that they always do it wrong... how can you stand there and try to tell me that I'm then doing it wrong when I use the exact same words that they do. SOE 'should' use casting time to refer to the time it takes to cast something. But they don't. They say casting speed. You know this is how they do it, why are we having this arguement?

Also, now we're into ad hominem attacks instead of discussing the issue.

[Sprin]

Paikis wrote:

Ghettoblaster@Nagafen wrote:

LOL you just dont give up... you and SOE are both wrong and you just cant admit it... its very basic...   WE understand that SOE wrote it like that... but that doesnt make it right... you are wrong, and SOE is wrong...   read one of the many basic explanations of this simple error on SOE's part... just give it up man... we all know you are wrong, just admit it and move on..... 

So, if SOE does it wrong, and they ALWAYS do it wrong, and you KNOW that they always do it wrong... how can you stand there and try to tell me that I'm then doing it wrong when I use the exact same words that they do. SOE 'should' use casting time to refer to the time it takes to cast something. But they don't. They say casting speed. You know this is how they do it, why are we having this arguement?

Also, now we're into ad hominem attacks instead of discussing the issue.

They dont always use casting speed... in THIS case they use casting speed... and in THIS case, they are wrong..... 

Its an error they have yet to fix... but that doesn't make it correct...

If they called a red cloak "blue" and then kept referring to this red cloak as "blue" does that make SOE right? NO... its still a red cloak....

just as in this case.... no matter how many times they screw up and say "increases casting speed" to mean "Slower casting" they are still wrong...  

That red cloak will never be blue and increasing casting speed will never mean slower casting... common sense and basic understanding of the english language will give you the answer every time..

[Tehom]

Oh, I stand corrected. They do use speed and time correctly in all my defiler spells. Still seems a little silly to belabor such a trivial mistake, though.

[Sprin]

Chath@Antonia Bayle wrote:

Oh, I stand corrected. They do use speed and time correctly in all my defiler spells. Still seems a little silly to belabor such a trivial mistake, though.

yes, in almost ALL other cases, including gear and spells, they use the correct wording... in a few cases.. such as this one, they use it incorrectly...   its just typos.... the vast majority of us don't dispute that... its the few on here that seem to want to defend SOE's wording to the death and tell us how wrong WE are for disputing SOE's wording, and then belittle those of us who are actually right...

I guess talking to a brick wall will always be talking to a brick wall.....

[Paikis]

You're argueing semantics instead of talking about the actual ability.

[Sprin]

Paikis wrote:

You're argueing semantics instead of talking about the actual ability.

No, actually im COUNTER arguing... I posted on here with a suggestion to the topic and you quickly turned it into a "SOE knows everything, even if they are wrong" debate on the miss wording of this spell... now you know you are wrong and are trying to deflect and redirect everyones attention as to who actually started the debate on this thread...

The simple fact remains that SOE knows this stance slows down 3 healing debuffs and doesnt care... maybe they will ninja fix it with the expansion, but I doubt it...

I'm trying to not ask for too much at once... if people keep asking for faster casting on healing spells (including our debuffs) then they are going to ignore everything... that was obviously not what they wanted or they would have "fixed" it by now..

What I would like to see is just the simple phrase that I wrote above:

"Does not affect non damaging debuffs"

under the penalty to our hostile spells..

This is simple, its easy, its what we all want... regardless of if we want MORE... this is INCLUDED in what we all want... so lets start with point A and work our way from there... baby steps

[Paikis]

Ghettoblaster@Nagafen wrote:

What I would like to see is just the simple phrase that I wrote above:

"Does not affect non damaging debuffs"

under the penalty to our hostile spells..

This is simple, its easy, its what we all want... regardless of if we want MORE... this is INCLUDED in what we all want... so lets start with point A and work our way from there... baby steps

So basically you want exactly what I posted in the OP and you've just been wasting time until now. Glad we got that cleared up, thanks.

EDIT: Well actually you want more than what I typed in the OP, because I didn't include Rebuke in mine.

[Crismorn]

If Templars dont give at least 5000 health groupwide next xpac Im gonna have to quit, this is unacceptable

[Sprin]

Paikis wrote:

Ghettoblaster@Nagafen wrote:

What I would like to see is just the simple phrase that I wrote above:

"Does not affect non damaging debuffs"

under the penalty to our hostile spells..

This is simple, its easy, its what we all want... regardless of if we want MORE... this is INCLUDED in what we all want... so lets start with point A and work our way from there... baby steps

So basically you want exactly what I posted in the OP and you've just been wasting time until now. Glad we got that cleared up, thanks.

EDIT: Well actually you want more than what I typed in the OP, because I didn't include Rebuke in mine.

There you go again...  trying to take credit where credit isnt yours...

 no, you asked for their cast times to be reduced by 20%, and in my first post, the one after which you derailed your own thread... I posted that I didnt want them to reject a "fix" based on the fact that we are asking for our healing debuffs to be cast faster...

Here, in case you cant find it from all your derailments...:

Ghettoblaster@Nagafen wrote:

Paikis wrote:

Kriptini@Everfrost wrote:

This is the dumbest idea for our heal stance I've ever read.

Comprehension FAIL!

Read it again. This is exactly what just about EVERY thread on the subject has been asking for since it was implimented.

I would hate to see SOE reject the idea because you asked Templars to become BETTER heals with their heal stance....  SO i would propose instead:

"Increases casting speed of Hostile Spells.

        - Does not effect Non-Damage Debuffs"

(though this is wrong wording but it what is used currently with SOE not knowing English as a first language... as discussed elsewhere, as Increasing casting speed = faster casting, but hey, what can ya do?)

This way we are not asking for too much, just asking for it NOT to slow down our casts of our healing debuffs... though faster casting would be nice... but the stance doesnt speed up our casting of regular heals, so why would they give us our non damage debuffs faster casting?  I doubt they would...

Just a thought

 

 

[Paikis]

Paikis wrote:

Effects:- Increases Heal Crit Bonus of caster by 5%- Increases the base heal amount of heal spells by 10%- Reduces damage of hostile spells by 25%- Increases casting speed of hostile spells by 20% <- Makes debuffs slower by 20%.- Reduces casting speed of Mark of Divinity by 20% <- Makes debuff faster by 20%- Reduces casting speed of Involuntary Gift by 20% <- makes debuff faster by 20%- Reduces casting speed of Healing Fate by 20% <- makes debuff faster by 20%

Are you thick? Get your tongue off the window and actually READ what I wrote. I'll spell it out in bright red pretty colors for you.

The first line 'Increases casting speed of hostile spells by 20%' will make all your debuffs cast slower by 20%.The second, third and forth line will make those 3 debuffs cast faster by 20%, negating the penalty applied on the first line.

End result: All your hostile spells, nukes, stun, daze and armor debuff will cast 20% slower, but our reactive heals (mark, gift and healing fate) will still cast at their normal speed.

[Sprin]

Paikis wrote:

Paikis wrote:

Effects:- Increases Heal Crit Bonus of caster by 5%- Increases the base heal amount of heal spells by 10%- Reduces damage of hostile spells by 25%- Increases casting speed of hostile spells by 20% <- Makes debuffs slower by 20%.- Reduces casting speed of Mark of Divinity by 20% <- Makes debuff faster by 20%- Reduces casting speed of Involuntary Gift by 20% <- makes debuff faster by 20%- Reduces casting speed of Healing Fate by 20% <- makes debuff faster by 20%

Are you thick? Get your tongue off the window and actually READ what I wrote. I'll spell it out in bright red pretty colors for you.

The first line 'Increases casting speed of hostile spells by 20%' will make all your debuffs cast slower by 20%.The second, third and forth line will make those 3 debuffs cast faster by 20%, negating the penalty applied on the first line.

End result: All your hostile spells, nukes, stun, daze and armor debuff will cast 20% slower, but our reactive heals (mark, gift and healing fate) will still cast at their normal speed.

LOL! OMG dude, did you actually think that thats what you said in your OP?  Do you honestly think that your OP says what you have written in red in this post?  Man, LOLZORS

lol i dont know if you are trying to backpedal or if you are really that clueless TBH... im starting to think the second...

there is no "negating the first effect" in this game... I guess you were wanting people to read your mind when you started creating things the game has never seen before...

The way your OP reads is that you want All hostile spells to cast slower then normal and you want the mark , gift, and fate to cast faster then normal...

I think you have a basic comprehension problem, sorta like the whole Casting speed / casting time thing...  You'll get it soon... keep trying....

LOL

[Paikis]

Ghettoblaster@Nagafen wrote:

LOL! OMG dude, did you actually think that thats what you said in your OP?  Do you honestly think that your OP says what you have written in red in this post?  Man, LOLZORS

lol i dont know if you are trying to backpedal or if you are really that clueless TBH... im starting to think the second...

there is no "negating the first effect" in this game... I guess you were wanting people to read your mind when you started creating things the game has never seen before...

The way your OP reads is that you want All hostile spells to cast slower then normal and you want the mark , gift, and fate to cast faster then normal...

I think you have a basic comprehension problem, sorta like the whole Casting speed / casting time thing...  You'll get it soon... keep trying....

LOL

Wrong. Heal stance makes Mark cast 20% slower, myth proc makes it 20% faster. Go test it. You can quite easily negate this effect in the exact way I said in my OP.

L2P

[Sprin]

Paikis wrote:

Ghettoblaster@Nagafen wrote:

LOL! OMG dude, did you actually think that thats what you said in your OP?  Do you honestly think that your OP says what you have written in red in this post?  Man, LOLZORS

lol i dont know if you are trying to backpedal or if you are really that clueless TBH... im starting to think the second...

there is no "negating the first effect" in this game... I guess you were wanting people to read your mind when you started creating things the game has never seen before...

The way your OP reads is that you want All hostile spells to cast slower then normal and you want the mark , gift, and fate to cast faster then normal...

I think you have a basic comprehension problem, sorta like the whole Casting speed / casting time thing...  You'll get it soon... keep trying....

LOL

Wrong. Heal stance makes Mark cast 20% slower, myth proc makes it 20% faster. Go test it. You can quite easily negate this effect in the exact way I said in my OP.

L2P

Negating effects from one item to another isnt what you were "asking" for... Negating efects WITHIN the same item / spell is what you were asking... and its just silly...

You essentiall asked for them to say on an item "+5 Spell crit.... -5 Spell Crit" ...  Thats silliness

Adding an effect and then taking it away in the same spell is not how it works... They would just not add it...

Just as they wouldnt say "Slows hostile Spells.... Speeds them back up to normal...." in the same spell / item

Silliness

You have always and will always read on a spell / item effect what their effect is to the normal (or your current) effect now... 

[Paikis]

What I am asking for is for the casting penalty to be applied to everything except Mark, Gift and Healing Fate. You're turning this into a 2 page bichfest over how I chose to word it? Are you serious? Get out, and make sure the door hits you on the way out.

[Sprin]

Paikis wrote:

What I am asking for is for the casting penalty to be applied to everything except Mark, Gift and Healing Fate. You're turning this into a 2 page bichfest over how I chose to word it? Are you serious? Get out, and make sure the door hits you on the way out.

Your wording was massive fail and only you were able to comprehend it... then you rage when people dont understand it... cuz its in your own little language, so nobody can possibly understand the jibberish...   you have nobody but yourself to blame..

so you sir turned this into a 2 page fest because you fail at basic English skills in multiple ways...

And how do you expect anyone to change something when you word it so poorly that nobody can comprehend it...

You dont listen to reason, you dont admit you are wrong, and you dont change what you know now to be incorrect... so nobody will listen to you... just a little FYI...

[bks6721]

**deleted**  had a reading comp failure