Backpacks on Test: Now Bigger. And Strongboxes the same size (But not same weight)

[Yongqi]

I didn't notice if someone posted this or not. but will this change existing boxes/bags that are made to the new size or will it be for newly made items after the patch?

[Mythal_EQ2]

Here's an idea... though I don't know how viable it would be code-wise:

Make backpacks, instead of (or in addition to) the weight reduction, offer larger stack sizes, similar to the Guild Hall supply crate amenity (though obviously not allowing for 20k stacks). This would obviously require some changes in code (if it is at all possible), but would make for some specialization and choice-making in our intentory and bank management.

This way crates, while still weighing more, would get, say 2 or 4 slots more than backpacks, and would be used to carry (or storage) non-stackable items (extra armor pieces, house items, etc).

Backpacks, on the other hand, could be used (even with 2 or 4 less slots) to carry harvestables, potions, crafting supplies etc., if the stack sizes allowed for items in the backpacks were 50% - 100% more than elsewhere (i.e. potion stacks in backpacks would hold between 150 and 200 potions per stack instead of the normal 100).

Again though, this might be a nightmare to code so...

D.

[feldon30]

My solution (to the players):What's done is done, and it would not improve the game in any measurable way to punish people for using strongboxes.Next you'll be asking to hard-cap carry weight to 150 and suddenly make weight matter again in EQ2.Quit trying to come up with ways to make existing players angry. I thought people wanted EQ2 devs to stop nerfing the game?

[Jack Orb]

DominoDev wrote:

This is unfortunately not possible, as sales crates are actually a different item type from strong boxes, so there is no way to just automatically switch strong boxes into sales crates.  It would require running a script over every character on every server to individually remove each strong box and give the equivalent sales crate item.

How about making them switchable through examination in the same way HQ rewards and now mounts can be examined and changed into house items?  Even if they were to become non-container furniture items surely that would be better than rendering them pointless.

[Alvane]

Karrane1 wrote:

I guess I just dont see where all the hate for strongboxes is coming from. Its bad enough that whatever market we had for them will be gone. There isnt much a carpenter sells regularly besides boxes.

Oh, my..... my carpenter regularly sells furniture plus all the other little gems. And there is a repeat biz since peeps get tired of their furniture, so they remake their house or room and buy more furniture. She's also busy with seasonal items for the guild halls, too. She hasn't sold a strongbox in a very very long time.

My tailor doesn't sell many backpacks, neither. Like strongboxes they are a one time sale. Most of my tailor's crafting is in adornments and a few tiers of clothing or some dress clothing. She is probably the least used of my 6 crafters. Even my woodworker gets more biz than my tailor including repeat biz.

[Taylinn]

My biggest problem with the game was space! Over the years, so many things have chnaged, stacking capablity, the ability to increase STR, the size of boxes...ect...ect

The down fall, was some of the classes that I play couldn't carry all the things that I wanted them to. So the largest backpack was used till each toon gained the appropriate STR needed.

Needless to say, from my strongest to my (so-called) weakest toon they all carry 5 redwood strong boxes and 1 wantia artisan satchel and this works fine for me.

To go and change my ability to do what I do would be unfair at this time. Do I feel sorry for those that can't carry the boxes and fell that they are at a disadvantage, sure, but at the same time, the dynamics are in the game to buff up your STR and carry what you want.

From a RP and realistic ppoint of view...well that doesn't work at all...but until we can get a pack horse/mule or a never-ending bag, I deal with it.

I have far too many things to carry around!

[OrcSlayer96]

Maybe we need to look at this in a simpler solution, what if we removed the rare recipe for strongboxes, made the common strongbox of that tier equal to the rare backpack on storage and the common backpack 2 slots less than either of them?  The common strongbox retains its 100 pound weight, but uses common materials.  The rare material backpack yield same storage space but with 20% weight reduction and 5 pounds of weight, the cost is getting the rare for that backpack versus common raws on the strongbox.  The common backpack is 2 slots less than either one and has no weight reduction, but only weighs 5 pounds.  This yields desire for both storage types and nobody has to deal with restrictions of where to place this at.  The player decides how much it is worth having the rare backpack versus the common strongbox or if no rares they may go with the common backpack in inventory till they pickup the rares.  No need for coding on restrictions where to place the storage items or tossing negative run speed on things...

[Firecracker]

I can't see why some would still want to carry strongboxes around weather they have the strength or not. I know I wouldn't after this change for I mentor a lot. So how many will swap out? A lot will pick backpacks over the boxes for this purpose too. That is why some are here complaining about it. There is no doubt about it that this change goes from one unbalance to another unbalance. I love the change to backpacks but I see this effecting sells for strongboxes even for banks/storage for a lot of players swap out boxes to do certain things so the same desirability will be their but it will be backpacks instead.

Weight of the strongboxes seem to be main factor here with complaints but even if you do reduce it, it will not make them more desirable either after this change but removing two slots from backpacks is not something we want either for we want that option to carry more useless stuff. Reduce the weight of strongboxes or remove two slots from backpacks are not the best way to appease our complaints on this I think. so....

The suggestions you gave Domino are not the best viable choices to fix our complaints on this dilemma so give another one that seems more reasonable perhaps?

[Alenna]

Uxian@Splitpaw wrote:

DominoDev wrote:

This is unfortunately not possible, as sales crates are actually a different item type from strong boxes, so there is no way to just automatically switch strong boxes into sales crates.  It would require running a script over every character on every server to individually remove each strong box and give the equivalent sales crate item.

How about making them switchable through examination in the same way HQ rewards and now mounts can be examined and changed into house items?  Even if they were to become non-container furniture items surely that would be better than rendering them pointless.

We still need the space for storage in banks and house vaults.  I have a provi I'm leveling up and 8 her bank slots are slated for the raws my other toons and some friends have sent her to help her level up and even with the highest level strongbox I'm going to find it hard to hold everything. I use 7 of the shared bank slots for the overflow different raws used by all my other toons for their tradeskill leveling if redwood strongbox(I believe that is the largest in the game so far) wern't there I couldn't do it. not to mention the storage needed for other thing like decorations for the house and master's and equipment for later adventure levels. so what was this about rendering strong boxes pointless.

[OrcSlayer96]

Cinnimon wrote:

I can't see why some would still want to carry strongboxes around weather they have the strength or not. I know I wouldn't after this change for I mentor a lot. So how many will swap out? A lot will pick backpacks over the boxes for this purpose too. That is why some are here complaining about it. There is no doubt about it that this change goes from one unbalance to another unbalance. I love the change to backpacks but I see this effecting sells for strongboxes even for banks/storage for a lot of players swap out boxes to do certain things so the same desirability will be their but it will be backpacks instead.

Weight of the strongboxes seem to be main factor here with complaints but even if you do reduce it, it will not make them more desirable either after this change but removing two slots from backpacks is not something we want either for we want that option to carry more useless stuff. Reduce the weight of strongboxes or remove two slots from backpacks are not the best way to appease our complaints on this I think. so....

The suggestions you gave Domino are not the best viable choices to fix our complaints on this dilemma so give another one that seems more reasonable perhaps?

If this is in response to my last post, you may have misread part of it, i wanted the strongboxes changed so only a common harvest recipe exists(no rare needed to make) that has the same storage capacity as the Rare harvest Backpack(requiring the rare pelt to make).  The common backpack would exist(no rare needed but no weight reduction either) but have 2 less slots then either strongbox or rare backpack.  The rare backpack has 20% weight reduction, so theer is something for everyone...

[Valdaglerion]

This whole thread makes me LOL.

Backpacks and strongboxes will be the same size. It will all come down to price. My 80 mages can easily carry 6 strongboxes. Either set of goods can be stuck in bank, vault or on your toon, so once again it comes to price only. Acknowledged, wood is more plentiful than pelts so tailors should expect to not sell backpacks above certain levels because once you can carry strongboxes they will be just as large and cheaper than packpacks.

Just another good reason to be able to make both. Multi-crafting FTW. . . oh wait, different game . . . .multiple toons FTW!

[Jardon]

The only thing I don't want to see is making boxes bank only or backpacks character only, because I swap boxes between one characters inventory, and the shared bank. I will then switch to another character and swap the box from the shared bank to my inventory.

Since we have no way to transfer then entire contents of once box/backpack to another, I don't want to give up the ability to swap a full box in inventory with the empty box in the shared bank, or the full box in the shared bank  with the empty bank in inventory.

[Trellium]

Artemiz@The Bazaar wrote:

This whole thread makes me LOL.

Backpacks and strongboxes will be the same size. It will all come down to price. My 80 mages can easily carry 6 strongboxes. Either set of goods can be stuck in bank, vault or on your toon, so once again it comes to price only. Acknowledged, wood is more plentiful than pelts so tailors should expect to not sell backpacks above certain levels because once you can carry strongboxes they will be just as large and cheaper than packpacks.

As others said ... weight is no issue until you mentor. If you ever mentor to the lower levels you might as well use backpacks. People who already have strongboxes will likely switch them out for backpacks since mentoring for quests is becoming common. People who have no gear and are building up may as well buy only backpacks. Since it doesn't matter which you use in the bank slots, it comes down to "do I ever swap a bag at a time?". If so then backpacks win handily, otherwise it's a draw.

The "safe" choice is to go backpacks since they aren't at all hobbled with weight. Pricing will likely be the same unless the strongboxes get dumped from inventory, in which case the market for them collapses until they are bought up again.

[Purr]

I still think the easiest (while not the most realistic way, if there is something like that at all in any RPG) would be to reduce the strongbox weight to the weight of a bag or set them both to 10. That we are able to carry 6 containers (no matter if backpack or strongbox) is everything but realistic anyway. Simple solutions are sometimes the best.

Would I like something fancier? Some of the ideas here are sure nice, but how easy to implement are they? And nothing prevents them from being implemented later if they are good.

Purr~

[RandomStream]

Surely the solution is simple.  Get rid of Backpacks.  Make strongboxes light enough for anyone to carry.

Tailor's don't need backpacks, they make a stack of items that have to be replaced every tier. However Carpenters do need strongboxes it is the only item they make that all players want.  Even they are buy once and use till the next tier is added.  (OK a lot of players want Vendor Crates but not all.  As for home deocorating, most players who are heavily into that aspect of the game have their own carpenters)

As to the economic argument, it's irrelevent for any player with a level 80 toon.  10 gold is small change, and most days you can get redwood strongboxes for 7or 8 gold. (Runnyeye prices).  Why do people sell tier 8 items for 2 gold profit.  I don't know.  Doing a  city writ pays more per item plus faction and status.  But people do it!   Which leaves you with some interesting questions about economics. Or is it philanthropy? Hopefully when City Tokens arrive doing writs will be more attractive. But....

[Alenna]

Yongqi wrote:

I didn't notice if someone posted this or not. but will this change existing boxes/bags that are made to the new size or will it be for newly made items after the patch?

on test it is existing bags/and boxes.

[Leucippus]

Another 2 copper opinion

(1) For the existing tiers, just make the bags and boxes equivalent. Really, the weight of the boxes does not mean much in this game. Yeah weight means something to some classes, but removing it from existing strongboxes would not affect the game much, if at all.

(2) For the new tier 9 coming up, bags inventory only, strongboxes bank slot and the like only. Just outright "fix" this situation. As long at all the tier 9 items hold more than the previous tiers, the situation will correct itself.

(3) For the quested bags, have them give a bonus to the "Ample Harvest" or "Bountiful Harvest" feature. For that matter, use that feature as a way to give flavor to different bags.

(4) Have the storage container on the broker affect: (a) the commission (b) the sort order for equal priced items, after commission of course; so, say, for two items of equal price, the one in the strongbox would always appear before one in a bag on the broker, or some other similar arrangement.

I suppose a summary could be, currently (i) weight, (ii) weight reduction, (iii) size, and (iv) broker commission distinguish bags and boxes.

Change that situation to: (i) weight, (ii) weight reduction, (iii) size, (iv) broker commission, (v) "Ample Harvest" bonus, (vi) broker sort order, (vii) allowed usage, and (viii) legacy considerations; i.e. T1-T8 boxes and bags.

 -Leucippus

[Deson]

Right now since non-rare salescrate isn't an option, I'm suggesting equalizing weight of existing boxes and bags and just removing the strong box recipe come expansion time.  Replace it with specialty boxes for harvests, armor etc. like sales crates making them ideal for long term storage of items like appearance items, alt item storage, harvests etc. and situational in inventory. If you aren't inclined to get rid of strong boxes, then the boxes= bags is tolerable but I'm not keen on duplicate items that do the exact same thing.

[Leucippus]

Another 2 copper

For tier 9 anyway:

(1) Strongboxes are house vault only

(2) Salesman's crates are broker only, would need some non rare ones though

(3) Bags are inventory only

-Leucippus

[Karrane1]

I dont understand why anyone feels the need to lock strongboxes to the bank. I dont understand why anyone feels the need to penalize someone for using strongboxes over bags. Great!! Tailors will be able to make big bags for ppl that want them. I am happy for them. But I dont think any bags or boxes should be limited to where you can use them. I exchange boxes from my vault or from the shared bank all the time when I am crafting, esp on my carpenter. It would be a huge inconvience to have to juggle things around because I cant put that box in my inventory. My 2 copper: Leave everything alone... let tailors make their new bags.. let capenters make their strongboxes.. and let everyone decide for themselves what they want to use for whatever reason. And PLZ dont remove our recipe for the strongboxes !!! Lets just add insult to injury 8(

[Gungo]

Best solution: Just remove ALL strongboxes from the game and replace them with the new supercrafted backpacks. After this change there is NO point to strong boxes. They basically become higher weight backpacks without weight reduction mods. Remove the recipes for strong boxes. Just make backpacks the default carry item. It will actually make sense lore wise and most carpenters already say strongboxes dont sell anyway so who cares. Someday in the future if you think you need a bank box then go ahead and recreate new bank storage boxes. I am sure you can think of a ton of new ideas for them.

[Gungo]

Karrane1 wrote:

I dont understand why anyone feels the need to lock strongboxes to the bank. I dont understand why anyone feels the need to penalize someone for using strongboxes over bags. Great!! Tailors will be able to make big bags for ppl that want them. I am happy for them. But I dont think any bags or boxes should be limited to where you can use them. I exchange boxes from my vault or from the shared bank all the time when I am crafting, esp on my carpenter. It would be a huge inconvience to have to juggle things around because I cant put that box in my inventory. My 2 copper: Leave everything alone... let tailors make their new bags.. let capenters make their strongboxes.. and let everyone decide for themselves what they want to use for whatever reason. And PLZ dont remove our recipe for the strongboxes !!! Lets just add insult to injury 8(

Mostly because boxes/bags have been [Removed for Content]'d since release. The lower level recipes are almost completely universally useless. A lvl 1 toon runs around with a tier 8 or tier 9 bags/boxes with no consequence. Since pre-dof 90% of the players base used strongboxes instead of bags because bags were smaller, more expensive and were worse then strongboxes. Domino eventually added WR to rare bags but that did nothing to change status qou. Now bags will be the same size or larger, have virtually no weight and offer a 10% wr. Boxes are now completely useless from level 1-90. Whats the point of strongboxes again? There would be absolutely No inconvience if boxes just disappeared and magically all your supplies were moved into equivilant backpacks. In actuality you end up making out because instead of having a strong box you now have all your supplies in 10% weight reduction bags that have no weight. If anyone can find a single reason why i should use strongboxes over backpacks I will love to hear it, but at this point they are not worth using at all; even in tier 9 the new strongboxes are already useless.

[Leiv]

DominoDev wrote:

As Meirril pointed out here, it's likely that the price of strong boxes/ease of gathering material will still give them a slight advantage, as pelts are generally a bit harder to find and more in demand than wood.  Also, given that nobody except a couple of mage classes has any use for weight reduction now, I don't think that really gives backpacks any advantage (and strong boxes are still totally fine for a bank anyway).  

On nagafen as of today:

Ie, wood is about 100 times more expensive than pelts. (though, compared to fuel price it can basically be ignored anyhow)

Why would anyone buy a strongbox?

Still think the idea of having strongboxes larger than bags but too heavy to carry around is basically sound. Give the strongboxes the same percentual increase in size as the bags but make them a thousand times more heavy.

[Calthine]

Leiv@Venekor wrote:

Why would anyone buy a strongbox?

The thing is that, since launch, the question has been "why buy a backpack?"  Ballancing on this was mentioned ages and ages ago by Beghn or Friznick (I'd have to look it up), but they then made weight a reletively useless stat in the game and it never happened.

It's just reballancing.  It'll settle out.

[Svetty]

Calthine wrote:

It's just reballancing.  It'll settle out.

How will it settle out?

They are making backpacks more desirable and strongboxes less thus removing them as a way for carpenters to earn money.  Why exactly will anyone want strongboxes for anything once they make the changes to the backpacks? 

I have no qualms if they make backpacks larger but do not do it to the detriment of strongboxes.  An option would be to make the backpacks larger but not as large as strongboxes so they will be more desirable as items to carry around but not so desirable as to completely make strongboxes obsolete.

Having faith in the devs is great and all but when that faith becomes blind devotion it is a bad thing.  When you lose the ability to think critically in regards to how their proposed changes will affect the game we pay to play then you need to take a step back and re-evaluate your position. 

[Xalmat]

Having strongboxes be bank only was something that was originally planned for EQ2 at launch. Unfortunately they couldn't get the code for making strongboxes bank only working, and just left it as is.

Perhaps the best solution is either to make Strong Boxes weigh significantly less than they do, or make bags = boxes minus two slots. It will still be win/win for tailors compared to now.

One concern I have is that other bags are suddenly going to reduce in value. I can see the following bags no longer worth the time or money to acquire, at least at level 90 (and perhaps even at level 80):

* Bag of Sewn Evil Eye* Bag of the Tinkerers* Box of Nil Space* Wantia Artisan's Satchel* Large Collector's Pouch* Huge Collector's Pouch* Dirby's Work Satchel* Any and every low level quested backpack or bag.

Keep in mind, carpenters have many, many more items that sell than tailors besides just boxes and bags. The market for tailor goods at high levels is limited: Once players outlevel mastercrafted gear and acquire gear upgrades, tailored armor ceases to be useful. On the other hand there's always a market for even level 1 carpenter furniture.

[Svetty]

Xalmat wrote:

Keep in mind, carpenters have many, many more items that sell than tailors besides just boxes and bags. The market for tailor goods at high levels is limited: Once players outlevel mastercrafted gear and acquire gear upgrades, tailored armor ceases to be useful. On the other hand there's always a market for even level 1 carpenter furniture.

That is dependant on what server you play on, actually.

[Deson]

Xalmat wrote:

Perhaps the best solution is either to make Strong Boxes weigh significantly less than they do, or make bags = boxes minus two slots. It will still be win/win for tailors compared to now.

Not really because only mages worry about weight.  If nothing else is to be done, bags= boxes in every way is just the best solution since everything else has a clear loser and the only people worried about weight post 30 are mages.

[Meirril]

Svetlanavera@Nagafen wrote:

Xalmat wrote:

Keep in mind, carpenters have many, many more items that sell than tailors besides just boxes and bags. The market for tailor goods at high levels is limited: Once players outlevel mastercrafted gear and acquire gear upgrades, tailored armor ceases to be useful. On the other hand there's always a market for even level 1 carpenter furniture.

That is dependant on what server you play on, actually.

I've spent more plat on furniture for one house than I have for bags and boxes for every toon I have since launch. Heck, I think I tipped the carpenter more that how much I've spent on bags and boxes. Saying the only thing a carpenter sells is boxes just means you arn't good at finding a customer. Developing a reputation as an interior decorator means people come looking for you instead of just plopping random peices of furniture on the broker and hoping someone doesn't undercut you.

[Svetty]

Meirril wrote:

Svetlanavera@Nagafen wrote:

Xalmat wrote:

Keep in mind, carpenters have many, many more items that sell than tailors besides just boxes and bags. The market for tailor goods at high levels is limited: Once players outlevel mastercrafted gear and acquire gear upgrades, tailored armor ceases to be useful. On the other hand there's always a market for even level 1 carpenter furniture.

That is dependant on what server you play on, actually.

I've spent more plat on furniture for one house than I have for bags and boxes for every toon I have since launch. Heck, I think I tipped the carpenter more that how much I've spent on bags and boxes. Saying the only thing a carpenter sells is boxes just means you arn't good at finding a customer. Developing a reputation as an interior decorator means people come looking for you instead of just plopping random peices of furniture on the broker and hoping someone doesn't undercut you.

I never said it was just about plopping things down on the broker and I never said that boxes are the ONLY thing a carpenter sells.  I did say that each market on the different servers is different because they are.  Nagafen doesn't have much of a market for decorating.  I am still leveling my carpenter up so I haven't been pushing to change that much yet.  

I am just pointing out that no one can make over reaching statements that carpenter's goods sell wonderfully everywhere unless you have played on every server.

spelling is good...