LoN NOW affects Gameplay.. thanks SOE - Page 24

Elquinjena · 10-02-2009, 07:37 PM

scruffylookin wrote:

Littlelove@Crushbone wrote: I would appreciate someone explaining to me how this is more of a "Pay for content" than the adventure packs, because I'm not getting it.

simple, the adventure packs was a flat fee and you got the content, this Key is chance loot from LoN cards. You can not simply pay out three bucks for a booster pack and get a key, you get a Chance at getting this Key as loot.It may take a person 30 booster packs to finally get one, depending on how rare that is, while another might only have to buy 2-3 packs, and some might just get in their free boosters.

This is the concern of many players.

What I can see happening in the level chats is this:"Spot open, 100 plat a spot for Special Key Instance". Yes I do see people saying they have open group spots and charging for the chance to go.BUT........the adventure packs were offered first for a small fee and later on, after most people who wanted to pay to play in them, was given out for free with station pass, and later on added to expantion packs. The content was then open to all who wanted to partake of it.There is a good chance that after those who want it badly enough to be First through it have paid out to have the privage of being the first group of players to be through this content, SoE will open it up to the rest of the Pop.

Cadaveria · 10-02-2009, 07:39 PM

Kiara wrote:

Melancholie@Oasis wrote:
is this zone available for players to test on test?
I don't think so... I'll have to check and get back to you on this later.

Just so I understand.... this isnt on test, and is going live in under two weeks? Did I read that wrong? Is it going to Test on the 13th, or is it going live on the 13th?

Littlelove · 10-02-2009, 07:40 PM

Elquinjena wrote:

scruffylookin wrote:
I would appreciate someone explaining to me how this is more of a "Pay for content" than the adventure packs, because I'm not getting it.
simple, the adventure packs was a flat fee and you got the content, this Key is chance loot from LoN cards. You can not simply pay out three bucks for a booster pack and get a key, you get a Chance at getting this Key as loot.It may take a person 30 booster packs to finally get one, depending on how rare that is, while another might only have to buy 2-3 packs, and some might just get in their free boosters.
This is the concern of many players.
What I can see happening in the level chats is this:"Spot open, 100 plat a spot for Special Key Instance". Yes I do see people saying they have open group spots and charging for the chance to go.BUT........the adventure packs were offered first for a small fee and later on, after most people who wanted to pay to play in them, was given out for free with station pass, and later on added to expantion packs. The content was then open to all who wanted to partake of it.There is a good chance that after those who want it badly enough to be First through it have paid out to have the privage of being the first group of players to be through this content, SoE will open it up to the rest of the Pop.

Fixed....I didn't say that

Wingrider01 · 10-02-2009, 07:42 PM

Kiara wrote:

Wingrider01 wrote:
Ok, is there a published go live date for this?
Looking into this. Will come back with an answer as soon as I have it
The planned release date is the 13th of October, but this is subject to change, should gnomes get into the works.

Hey I resemble that remark, us gnomes always improve things SMILEY

Juravael · 10-02-2009, 07:53 PM

testing

Melanchol · 10-02-2009, 07:54 PM

since offering exclusive content with lootz and dev time is acceptable to cater towards LON players, which is a small minority of the player community, I am certain that no one will mind if the shard of love is accessible only by a key drop off of contested Mithaniel Marr. If you want to access the Shard of Love, join an avatar guild. The zone is not required, not essential, so it shouldn't bother anyone that only avatar geared players who are killing the Avatars have a chance to go there. besides, if you're friends with one, they can take you in the zone as a guest, or they can charge you for access. There is no harm in this. right?

In fact, i look forward to a long list of fun "fluff" zones that are only accessible by players that are killing avatars. Everyone that supports this LON plan should have no issues with this idea.

Deveryn · 10-02-2009, 07:55 PM

Quit swearing up a storm at them and nothing will get deleted. Try being civil. SMILEY Civility gets the suggestions and feedback through 100% of the time.

Juravael · 10-02-2009, 07:55 PM

Why aren't my posts being shown... are you deleting them? This is my 5th try

Juravael · 10-02-2009, 07:57 PM

Deveryn@Lucan DLere wrote:

Quit swearing up a storm at them and nothing will get deleted. Try being civil. Civility gets the suggestions and feedback through 100% of the time.

I have not sworn once, everything has been **'d out.

Lasai · 10-02-2009, 08:00 PM

Caethas@Permafrost wrote:

Wow, the last time I posted yesterday it was on page 18, and now here we are on page 45 46. There's no way I'm going to have time to read the almost 30 pages of posts between then and now, but scanning the next couple of pages, it doesn't appear as though anyone has answered my question.For those who demand access without playing LON: what is your justification for claiming that your subscription fee entitles you to *everything* with EQ2? I see it repeated time and time again, but never a logical argument as to why. I get that you don't want to be charged again, but since you can play for free, I don't think that really covers it.You don't get access to every zone without putting in some work, so why is that okay but not playing LON (for free)?As an optional, secondary question: what rewards would you put in for LON for those who do like to play it?

Justification? How about, since launch, every player who bought the game, adventure packs, expansions, whatever gained access to everything included in said purchases at a one time cost. There was a means, ingame, at no extra cost whatsoever, to access everything, furthermore, this access carried over to each and every char you were allowed to create. In addition to that one time purchase, we paid "rent" by subscription to continue to access that content.

Why should I play LoN in any form whatsoever in order to access content in this, separate game. Furthermore, this isnt even about playing LoN, damned few do. It is about purchasing card packs.. the only reason that "free" game exists. You do not get cards that are random drops in purchased booster packs "free". I am opposed to the idea of any content existing in this game that requires a purchased lotto drop in a completely separate game, and excludes paid subcribers to this game.

Also, this content is one time per acquisition/purchase. One char, one time, then you buy it again. and again. and again. If this model carries forward, it becomes a cost per character issue, not cost per acct as the subscription currently is.

As far as what rewards to give LoN players... I don't give a flying fig, no more than I care what blizzard offers thier customers in thier game. I don't play LoN, didn't want it, and could care less about the needs of LoN players... perhaps you could go to THIER boards and discuss it with fellow LoN players about rewards you can earn there, to be used there, I play EQ2.

And, if you mean what rewards LoN players should have here.. why. I get nothing for my participation in Vanguard here, nothing for my participation in SWG here. What makes LoN players special? At least I pay a sub for my other SOE games.

Deveryn · 10-02-2009, 08:01 PM

Glenedhel@Antonia Bayle wrote:

Deveryn@Lucan DLere wrote:
Quit swearing up a storm at them and nothing will get deleted. Try being civil. Civility gets the suggestions and feedback through 100% of the time.
I have not sworn once, everything has been **'d out.

Yeah. The blind rage is still there. You and others need to relax and just wait to see what this doomsday item is.

In the meantime, have a look at what's actually come from LoN packs. You'll see no trend towards anything that will have a significant impact on the gameplay, which is primarily NPC combat.

Juravael · 10-02-2009, 08:01 PM

Anyhow it is obvious that no matter what I say or however I express MY feelings on this matter it will not matter so I am done posting here since it just gets deleted.. reminds me of communism.

The only thing I can say is - This entire concept is unfair to the core playerbase.

Kiara · 10-02-2009, 08:03 PM

Glenedhel@Antonia Bayle wrote:

Anyhow it is obvious that no matter what I say or however I express MY feelings on this matter it will not matter so I am done posting here since it just gets deleted.. reminds me of communism.
The only thing I can say is - This entire concept is unfair to the core playerbase.

Actually... If you read the messages that I sent you explaining why your posts were removed, you would know that you can express your displeasure with no consequence, so long as you refrain from using profanity. And even if it is ***'d out... It's still quite clear what you are saying and that it is profanity.

Juravael · 10-02-2009, 08:03 PM

Deveryn@Lucan DLere wrote:

Glenedhel@Antonia Bayle wrote:
Deveryn@Lucan DLere wrote:
Quit swearing up a storm at them and nothing will get deleted. Try being civil. Civility gets the suggestions and feedback through 100% of the time.
I have not sworn once, everything has been **'d out.
Yeah. The blind rage is still there. You and others need to relax and just wait to see what this doomsday item is.
In the meantime, have a look at what's actually come from LoN packs. You'll see no trend towards anything that will have a significant impact on the gameplay, which is primarily NPC combat.

Blind rage? No. [Removed for Content] off at unfair LON content, yes. I do not play LON and never will. I do play EVERQUEST II and should have access to all content via my two paid subscriptions.

Juravael · 10-02-2009, 08:04 PM

Kiara wrote:

Glenedhel@Antonia Bayle wrote:
Anyhow it is obvious that no matter what I say or however I express MY feelings on this matter it will not matter so I am done posting here since it just gets deleted.. reminds me of communism.
The only thing I can say is - This entire concept is unfair to the core playerbase.
Actually... If you read the messages that I sent you explaining why your posts were removed, you would know that you can express your displeasure with no consequence, so long as you refrain from using profanity. And even if it is ***'d out... It's still quite clear what you are saying and that it is profanity.

I never recieved any "messages".

Elorah · 10-02-2009, 08:06 PM

Glenedhel@Antonia Bayle wrote:

I never recieved any "messages".

Have you looked at your private messages at the top of the forums?

Cal · 10-02-2009, 08:09 PM

Learn to express opinions without the need for Swearing or even bleeped out swearing then. I have certainly expressed my displeasure. I have even stated I quit and the reasons I did so. My posts and many many other's posts have been allowed to go through, because we choose to be civil in the manner in which we express our displeasure. No matter how badly a company does something, there is never a reason or need to use profanity.

Cypernicus · 10-02-2009, 08:09 PM

Gooberguts@Befallen wrote:

Kiara wrote:
Melancholie@Oasis wrote:
is this zone available for players to test on test?
I don't think so... I'll have to check and get back to you on this later.
Just so I understand.... this isnt on test, and is going live in under two weeks? Did I read that wrong? Is it going to Test on the 13th, or is it going live on the 13th?

I don't see why it would be on test. It's not something being offered to eq2 players, it's a reward for LoN players.

Deveryn · 10-02-2009, 08:11 PM

Lasai wrote:

And, if you mean what rewards LoN players should have here.. why. I get nothing for my participation in Vanguard here, nothing for my participation in SWG here. What makes LoN players special? At least I pay a sub for my other SOE games.

It almost sounds like a good idea to have crossover with other games, but there's the major problem of SWG content not fitting into this world and vice versa. Imagine the uproar, especially on RP servers. Vanguard and EQ crossovers would be pointless.

Who said LoN players were special? You're comparing apples and oranges. MMO vs. card game? What?

Deveryn · 10-02-2009, 08:12 PM

Cypernicus@Nektulos wrote:

Gooberguts@Befallen wrote:
Kiara wrote:
Melancholie@Oasis wrote:
is this zone available for players to test on test?
I don't think so... I'll have to check and get back to you on this later.
Just so I understand.... this isnt on test, and is going live in under two weeks? Did I read that wrong? Is it going to Test on the 13th, or is it going live on the 13th?
I don't see why it would be on test. It's not something being offered to eq2 players, it's a reward for LoN players.

It's a reward for EQ2 players!!!!

To access it, an LoN player will need an EQ2 sub.

Deveryn · 10-02-2009, 08:15 PM

Glenedhel@Antonia Bayle wrote:

Deveryn@Lucan DLere wrote:
Glenedhel@Antonia Bayle wrote:
Deveryn@Lucan DLere wrote:
Quit swearing up a storm at them and nothing will get deleted. Try being civil. Civility gets the suggestions and feedback through 100% of the time.
I have not sworn once, everything has been **'d out.
Yeah. The blind rage is still there. You and others need to relax and just wait to see what this doomsday item is.
In the meantime, have a look at what's actually come from LoN packs. You'll see no trend towards anything that will have a significant impact on the gameplay, which is primarily NPC combat.
Blind rage? No. [Removed for Content] off at unfair LON content, yes. I do not play LON and never will. I do play EVERQUEST II and should have access to all content via my two paid subscriptions.

Yes, it's blind rage because you are angry about something you know nothing about, aside from the facts stated by Kiara and Brenlo, which have been ignored.

The content is not unfair. It never has been. You don't even have to learn the game for a chance at the key. You can just wait for packs to show up in your collection.

Lasai · 10-02-2009, 08:16 PM

Deveryn@Lucan DLere wrote:

Glenedhel@Antonia Bayle wrote:
Deveryn@Lucan DLere wrote:
Quit swearing up a storm at them and nothing will get deleted. Try being civil. Civility gets the suggestions and feedback through 100% of the time.
I have not sworn once, everything has been **'d out.
Yeah. The blind rage is still there. You and others need to relax and just wait to see what this doomsday item is.
In the meantime, have a look at what's actually come from LoN packs. You'll see no trend towards anything that will have a significant impact on the gameplay, which is primarily NPC combat.

That is your definition of gameplay, and a narrow one. My gameplay definately involves collecting, questing for, wearing and displaying items useless in combat. Many people do.. and look at the popularity of fluff instances.. frostfell, the mushroom rings, etc. Gameplay is the whole game, and I can think of a whole slew of full time crafters who would take issue with the "primarily NPC combat" simplification you made. LoN has impacted my gameplay from the very start.

For me, the item in question is not a mystery. It is a key to exclusive content denied to a paid subscriber. That is all I need to know to oppose it. It is the concept of the special instance, not what it contains.

Gaige · 10-02-2009, 08:17 PM

scruffylookin wrote:

People keep disregarding adventure packs as somehow "different." Make no mistake, adventure packs were very literally micro-transactions. When Bloodlines first came out (years ago, mind you), you had to pay 4 bucks to access the zone. And that included the loot. I paid money for bloodlines for absolutely no other reason than the fact that I wanted that vampire illusion. And yet, nobody complained about "microtransactions" then.
To the people that say this is totally different, I don't see it. Adventure packs were literally paying small amounts of money for content and items.

So everytime you wanted to access BLC you had to pay $4.99 to SOE and hope to get a random key? Oh wait, no. You paid $4.99 for a mini-expansion that you can still access today.

Deveryn · 10-02-2009, 08:18 PM

Lasai wrote:

Deveryn@Lucan DLere wrote:
Glenedhel@Antonia Bayle wrote:
Deveryn@Lucan DLere wrote:
Quit swearing up a storm at them and nothing will get deleted. Try being civil. Civility gets the suggestions and feedback through 100% of the time.
I have not sworn once, everything has been **'d out.
Yeah. The blind rage is still there. You and others need to relax and just wait to see what this doomsday item is.
In the meantime, have a look at what's actually come from LoN packs. You'll see no trend towards anything that will have a significant impact on the gameplay, which is primarily NPC combat.
That is your definition of gameplay, and a narrow one. My gameplay definately involves collecting, questing for, wearing and displaying items useless in combat. Many people do.. and look at the popularity of fluff instances.. frostfell, the mushroom rings, etc. Gameplay is the whole game, and I can think of a whole slew of full time crafters who would take issue with the "primarily NPC combat" simplification you made. LoN has impacted my gameplay from the very start.
For me, the item in question is not a mystery. It is a key to exclusive content denied to a paid subscriber. That is all I need to know to oppose it. It is the concept of the special instance, not what it contains.

How are you denied? Everyone has to pay the same money for a shot at it, if they don't get it in the free packs. There's also a chance, if you have any friends, that you'll be able to access that zone.

Juravael · 10-02-2009, 08:20 PM

Calse wrote :

No matter how badly a company does something, there is never a reason or need to use profanity.

I strongly disagree. When a company screws you over and will not work with you to correct the problem then there is ample reason to use profanity, just as there would be with anyone. I could use an example from this very afternoon when Dish Network sent a wireless modem via UPS but had the wrong address so I never recieved it and thus was told that I would now have to wait until Monday morning at the earliest. They kept telling me to call UPS and UPS kept telling me to call Dish Network.. so yes a lot of profanity got used over the phone this afternoon and my wireless modem got delivered within two hours.

Melanchol · 10-02-2009, 08:20 PM

I'm certain that all these LoN supporters will have no issue with SOE making all access keys for Frostfell, Moonlight Enchantments, Nights of the Dead, and all the other "fluff" zones available only to those players who loot the key off of Anashti Sul, or Ykesha. It's ok to make "fluff" content exclusive. It is especially OK if the "fluff" content has loot and items that are highly sought after and useful in game.

Lasai · 10-02-2009, 08:20 PM

Gage wrote:

scruffylookin wrote:
People keep disregarding adventure packs as somehow "different." Make no mistake, adventure packs were very literally micro-transactions. When Bloodlines first came out (years ago, mind you), you had to pay 4 bucks to access the zone. And that included the loot. I paid money for bloodlines for absolutely no other reason than the fact that I wanted that vampire illusion. And yet, nobody complained about "microtransactions" then.
To the people that say this is totally different, I don't see it. Adventure packs were literally paying small amounts of money for content and items.
So everytime you wanted to access BLC you had to pay $4.99 to SOE and hope to get a random key? Oh wait, no. You paid $4.99 for a mini-expansion that you can still access today.

4.99 per char as well.. Adv. Packs were acct based. LoN items are char based.

Gaige · 10-02-2009, 08:22 PM

Cypernicus@Nektulos wrote:

I don't see why it would be on test. It's not something being offered to eq2 players, it's a reward for LoN players.

You don't see why an EQ2 instance full of EQ2 content would be on the EQ2 test server?

Lasai · 10-02-2009, 08:22 PM

Deveryn@Lucan DLere wrote:

Lasai wrote:
And, if you mean what rewards LoN players should have here.. why. I get nothing for my participation in Vanguard here, nothing for my participation in SWG here. What makes LoN players special? At least I pay a sub for my other SOE games.
It almost sounds like a good idea to have crossover with other games, but there's the major problem of SWG content not fitting into this world and vice versa. Imagine the uproar, especially on RP servers. Vanguard and EQ crossovers would be pointless.
Who said LoN players were special? You're comparing apples and oranges. MMO vs. card game? What?

Snip quoting is bad, mmmkay, I never said that.. someone asked what items LoN players should have here, and I responded.

Melanchol · 10-02-2009, 08:24 PM

I'm certain that all these LoN supporters will have no problems with SOE spending DEV time to create an exclusive "fluff" zone that they can manually hand out access to their in game friends. The zone isn;t required. it's not necessary.... but only people on SOE DEV friends list will be granted access to this exclusive content developed by developers who were taken off projects fixing the game or working on the expansion in order to make this exclusive zone for themselevs and for their friends. All LoN exclusive zone supporters should have no problem with this, because it doesn;t effect their gameplay.

10-02-2009, 07:37 PM	#691
Elquinjena Huntress Join Date: Nov 2004 Posts: 266	scruffylookin wrote: Littlelove@Crushbone wrote: I would appreciate someone explaining to me how this is more of a "Pay for content" than the adventure packs, because I'm not getting it. simple, the adventure packs was a flat fee and you got the content, this Key is chance loot from LoN cards. You can not simply pay out three bucks for a booster pack and get a key, you get a Chance at getting this Key as loot.It may take a person 30 booster packs to finally get one, depending on how rare that is, while another might only have to buy 2-3 packs, and some might just get in their free boosters. This is the concern of many players. What I can see happening in the level chats is this:"Spot open, 100 plat a spot for Special Key Instance". Yes I do see people saying they have open group spots and charging for the chance to go.BUT........the adventure packs were offered first for a small fee and later on, after most people who wanted to pay to play in them, was given out for free with station pass, and later on added to expantion packs. The content was then open to all who wanted to partake of it.There is a good chance that after those who want it badly enough to be First through it have paid out to have the privage of being the first group of players to be through this content, SoE will open it up to the rest of the Pop. __________________ Antonia Bayle Server - EQII Legion of Kithicor

10-02-2009, 07:39 PM	#692
Cadaveria Server: Befallen Loremaster Join Date: Dec 2005 Location: Seattle, WA Posts: 122	Kiara wrote: Melancholie@Oasis wrote: is this zone available for players to test on test? I don't think so... I'll have to check and get back to you on this later. Just so I understand.... this isnt on test, and is going live in under two weeks? Did I read that wrong? Is it going to Test on the 13th, or is it going live on the 13th? __________________

10-02-2009, 07:40 PM	#693
Littlelove Server: Crushbone Guild: Witness Protection Program Rank: Leader Loremaster Join Date: Feb 2006 Posts: 110	Elquinjena wrote: scruffylookin wrote: I would appreciate someone explaining to me how this is more of a "Pay for content" than the adventure packs, because I'm not getting it. simple, the adventure packs was a flat fee and you got the content, this Key is chance loot from LoN cards. You can not simply pay out three bucks for a booster pack and get a key, you get a Chance at getting this Key as loot.It may take a person 30 booster packs to finally get one, depending on how rare that is, while another might only have to buy 2-3 packs, and some might just get in their free boosters. This is the concern of many players. What I can see happening in the level chats is this:"Spot open, 100 plat a spot for Special Key Instance". Yes I do see people saying they have open group spots and charging for the chance to go.BUT........the adventure packs were offered first for a small fee and later on, after most people who wanted to pay to play in them, was given out for free with station pass, and later on added to expantion packs. The content was then open to all who wanted to partake of it.There is a good chance that after those who want it badly enough to be First through it have paid out to have the privage of being the first group of players to be through this content, SoE will open it up to the rest of the Pop. Fixed....I didn't say that

10-02-2009, 07:42 PM	#694
Wingrider01 Loremaster Join Date: Nov 2004 Posts: 5,999	Kiara wrote: Wingrider01 wrote: Ok, is there a published go live date for this? Looking into this. Will come back with an answer as soon as I have it The planned release date is the 13th of October, but this is subject to change, should gnomes get into the works. Hey I resemble that remark, us gnomes always improve things __________________ Fixing computer issues, one SOC7 at a time. Yes Jim, the user has experienced the dreaded PICNIC error

10-02-2009, 07:55 PM	#697
Deveryn Server: Lucan DLere Guild: Fourth Wall Rank: Emperor Loremaster Join Date: Jun 2008 Posts: 1,302	Quit swearing up a storm at them and nothing will get deleted. Try being civil. Civility gets the suggestions and feedback through 100% of the time. __________________

10-02-2009, 07:53 PM	#695
Juravael Loremaster Join Date: Nov 2004 Posts: 997	testing

10-02-2009, 07:54 PM	#696
Melanchol Server: Oasis Guild: Paradise Lost Rank: Friends and Family General Join Date: Nov 2004 Posts: 226	since offering exclusive content with lootz and dev time is acceptable to cater towards LON players, which is a small minority of the player community, I am certain that no one will mind if the shard of love is accessible only by a key drop off of contested Mithaniel Marr. If you want to access the Shard of Love, join an avatar guild. The zone is not required, not essential, so it shouldn't bother anyone that only avatar geared players who are killing the Avatars have a chance to go there. besides, if you're friends with one, they can take you in the zone as a guest, or they can charge you for access. There is no harm in this. right? In fact, i look forward to a long list of fun "fluff" zones that are only accessible by players that are killing avatars. Everyone that supports this LON plan should have no issues with this idea.

10-02-2009, 07:55 PM	#698
Juravael Loremaster Join Date: Nov 2004 Posts: 997	Why aren't my posts being shown... are you deleting them? This is my 5th try

10-02-2009, 07:57 PM	#699
Juravael Loremaster Join Date: Nov 2004 Posts: 997	Deveryn@Lucan DLere wrote: Quit swearing up a storm at them and nothing will get deleted. Try being civil. Civility gets the suggestions and feedback through 100% of the time. I have not sworn once, everything has been **'d out.

10-02-2009, 08:00 PM	#700
Lasai Loremaster Join Date: Sep 2005 Location: my own basement Posts: 1,295	Caethas@Permafrost wrote: Wow, the last time I posted yesterday it was on page 18, and now here we are on page 45 46. There's no way I'm going to have time to read the almost 30 pages of posts between then and now, but scanning the next couple of pages, it doesn't appear as though anyone has answered my question.For those who demand access without playing LON: what is your justification for claiming that your subscription fee entitles you to everything with EQ2? I see it repeated time and time again, but never a logical argument as to why. I get that you don't want to be charged again, but since you can play for free, I don't think that really covers it.You don't get access to every zone without putting in some work, so why is that okay but not playing LON (for free)?As an optional, secondary question: what rewards would you put in for LON for those who do like to play it? Justification? How about, since launch, every player who bought the game, adventure packs, expansions, whatever gained access to everything included in said purchases at a one time cost. There was a means, ingame, at no extra cost whatsoever, to access everything, furthermore, this access carried over to each and every char you were allowed to create. In addition to that one time purchase, we paid "rent" by subscription to continue to access that content. Why should I play LoN in any form whatsoever in order to access content in this, separate game. Furthermore, this isnt even about playing LoN, damned few do. It is about purchasing card packs.. the only reason that "free" game exists. You do not get cards that are random drops in purchased booster packs "free". I am opposed to the idea of any content existing in this game that requires a purchased lotto drop in a completely separate game, and excludes paid subcribers to this game. Also, this content is one time per acquisition/purchase. One char, one time, then you buy it again. and again. and again. If this model carries forward, it becomes a cost per character issue, not cost per acct as the subscription currently is. As far as what rewards to give LoN players... I don't give a flying fig, no more than I care what blizzard offers thier customers in thier game. I don't play LoN, didn't want it, and could care less about the needs of LoN players... perhaps you could go to THIER boards and discuss it with fellow LoN players about rewards you can earn there, to be used there, I play EQ2. And, if you mean what rewards LoN players should have here.. why. I get nothing for my participation in Vanguard here, nothing for my participation in SWG here. What makes LoN players special? At least I pay a sub for my other SOE games. __________________ Never try to teach a pig to whistle. It only frustrates you and annoys the pig.

10-02-2009, 08:01 PM	#701
Deveryn Server: Lucan DLere Guild: Fourth Wall Rank: Emperor Loremaster Join Date: Jun 2008 Posts: 1,302	Glenedhel@Antonia Bayle wrote: Deveryn@Lucan DLere wrote: Quit swearing up a storm at them and nothing will get deleted. Try being civil. Civility gets the suggestions and feedback through 100% of the time. I have not sworn once, everything has been **'d out. Yeah. The blind rage is still there. You and others need to relax and just wait to see what this doomsday item is. In the meantime, have a look at what's actually come from LoN packs. You'll see no trend towards anything that will have a significant impact on the gameplay, which is primarily NPC combat. __________________

10-02-2009, 08:01 PM	#702
Juravael Loremaster Join Date: Nov 2004 Posts: 997	Anyhow it is obvious that no matter what I say or however I express MY feelings on this matter it will not matter so I am done posting here since it just gets deleted.. reminds me of communism. The only thing I can say is - This entire concept is unfair to the core playerbase.

10-02-2009, 08:03 PM	#703
Kiara Community Relations Join Date: Jul 2008 Posts: 4,359	Glenedhel@Antonia Bayle wrote: Anyhow it is obvious that no matter what I say or however I express MY feelings on this matter it will not matter so I am done posting here since it just gets deleted.. reminds me of communism. The only thing I can say is - This entire concept is unfair to the core playerbase. Actually... If you read the messages that I sent you explaining why your posts were removed, you would know that you can express your displeasure with no consequence, so long as you refrain from using profanity. And even if it is ***'d out... It's still quite clear what you are saying and that it is profanity.

10-02-2009, 08:03 PM	#704
Juravael Loremaster Join Date: Nov 2004 Posts: 997	Deveryn@Lucan DLere wrote: Glenedhel@Antonia Bayle wrote: Deveryn@Lucan DLere wrote: Quit swearing up a storm at them and nothing will get deleted. Try being civil. Civility gets the suggestions and feedback through 100% of the time. I have not sworn once, everything has been **'d out. Yeah. The blind rage is still there. You and others need to relax and just wait to see what this doomsday item is. In the meantime, have a look at what's actually come from LoN packs. You'll see no trend towards anything that will have a significant impact on the gameplay, which is primarily NPC combat. Blind rage? No. [Removed for Content] off at unfair LON content, yes. I do not play LON and never will. I do play EVERQUEST II and should have access to all content via my two paid subscriptions.

10-02-2009, 08:04 PM	#705
Juravael Loremaster Join Date: Nov 2004 Posts: 997	Kiara wrote: Glenedhel@Antonia Bayle wrote: Anyhow it is obvious that no matter what I say or however I express MY feelings on this matter it will not matter so I am done posting here since it just gets deleted.. reminds me of communism. The only thing I can say is - This entire concept is unfair to the core playerbase. Actually... If you read the messages that I sent you explaining why your posts were removed, you would know that you can express your displeasure with no consequence, so long as you refrain from using profanity. And even if it is ***'d out... It's still quite clear what you are saying and that it is profanity. I never recieved any "messages".

10-02-2009, 08:06 PM	#706
Elorah Loremaster Join Date: Mar 2005 Posts: 3,200	Glenedhel@Antonia Bayle wrote: I never recieved any "messages". Have you looked at your private messages at the top of the forums? __________________

10-02-2009, 08:09 PM	#707
Cal General Join Date: Aug 2008 Posts: 66	Learn to express opinions without the need for Swearing or even bleeped out swearing then. I have certainly expressed my displeasure. I have even stated I quit and the reasons I did so. My posts and many many other's posts have been allowed to go through, because we choose to be civil in the manner in which we express our displeasure. No matter how badly a company does something, there is never a reason or need to use profanity. __________________ Calse Raid Leader of Element

10-02-2009, 08:09 PM	#708
Cypernicus Server: Nektulos Guild: The Watchers Rank: (Probationary) Loremaster Join Date: May 2007 Posts: 45	Gooberguts@Befallen wrote: Kiara wrote: Melancholie@Oasis wrote: is this zone available for players to test on test? I don't think so... I'll have to check and get back to you on this later. Just so I understand.... this isnt on test, and is going live in under two weeks? Did I read that wrong? Is it going to Test on the 13th, or is it going live on the 13th? I don't see why it would be on test. It's not something being offered to eq2 players, it's a reward for LoN players.

10-02-2009, 08:11 PM	#709
Deveryn Server: Lucan DLere Guild: Fourth Wall Rank: Emperor Loremaster Join Date: Jun 2008 Posts: 1,302	Lasai wrote: And, if you mean what rewards LoN players should have here.. why. I get nothing for my participation in Vanguard here, nothing for my participation in SWG here. What makes LoN players special? At least I pay a sub for my other SOE games. It almost sounds like a good idea to have crossover with other games, but there's the major problem of SWG content not fitting into this world and vice versa. Imagine the uproar, especially on RP servers. Vanguard and EQ crossovers would be pointless. Who said LoN players were special? You're comparing apples and oranges. MMO vs. card game? What? __________________

10-02-2009, 08:12 PM	#710
Deveryn Server: Lucan DLere Guild: Fourth Wall Rank: Emperor Loremaster Join Date: Jun 2008 Posts: 1,302	Cypernicus@Nektulos wrote: Gooberguts@Befallen wrote: Kiara wrote: Melancholie@Oasis wrote: is this zone available for players to test on test? I don't think so... I'll have to check and get back to you on this later. Just so I understand.... this isnt on test, and is going live in under two weeks? Did I read that wrong? Is it going to Test on the 13th, or is it going live on the 13th? I don't see why it would be on test. It's not something being offered to eq2 players, it's a reward for LoN players. It's a reward for EQ2 players!!!! To access it, an LoN player will need an EQ2 sub. __________________

10-02-2009, 08:15 PM	#711
Deveryn Server: Lucan DLere Guild: Fourth Wall Rank: Emperor Loremaster Join Date: Jun 2008 Posts: 1,302	Glenedhel@Antonia Bayle wrote: Deveryn@Lucan DLere wrote: Glenedhel@Antonia Bayle wrote: Deveryn@Lucan DLere wrote: Quit swearing up a storm at them and nothing will get deleted. Try being civil. Civility gets the suggestions and feedback through 100% of the time. I have not sworn once, everything has been **'d out. Yeah. The blind rage is still there. You and others need to relax and just wait to see what this doomsday item is. In the meantime, have a look at what's actually come from LoN packs. You'll see no trend towards anything that will have a significant impact on the gameplay, which is primarily NPC combat. Blind rage? No. [Removed for Content] off at unfair LON content, yes. I do not play LON and never will. I do play EVERQUEST II and should have access to all content via my two paid subscriptions. Yes, it's blind rage because you are angry about something you know nothing about, aside from the facts stated by Kiara and Brenlo, which have been ignored. The content is not unfair. It never has been. You don't even have to learn the game for a chance at the key. You can just wait for packs to show up in your collection. __________________

10-02-2009, 08:16 PM	#712
Lasai Loremaster Join Date: Sep 2005 Location: my own basement Posts: 1,295	Deveryn@Lucan DLere wrote: Glenedhel@Antonia Bayle wrote: Deveryn@Lucan DLere wrote: Quit swearing up a storm at them and nothing will get deleted. Try being civil. Civility gets the suggestions and feedback through 100% of the time. I have not sworn once, everything has been **'d out. Yeah. The blind rage is still there. You and others need to relax and just wait to see what this doomsday item is. In the meantime, have a look at what's actually come from LoN packs. You'll see no trend towards anything that will have a significant impact on the gameplay, which is primarily NPC combat. That is your definition of gameplay, and a narrow one. My gameplay definately involves collecting, questing for, wearing and displaying items useless in combat. Many people do.. and look at the popularity of fluff instances.. frostfell, the mushroom rings, etc. Gameplay is the whole game, and I can think of a whole slew of full time crafters who would take issue with the "primarily NPC combat" simplification you made. LoN has impacted my gameplay from the very start. For me, the item in question is not a mystery. It is a key to exclusive content denied to a paid subscriber. That is all I need to know to oppose it. It is the concept of the special instance, not what it contains. __________________ Never try to teach a pig to whistle. It only frustrates you and annoys the pig.

10-02-2009, 08:17 PM	#713
Gaige Loremaster Join Date: Nov 2004 Location: Arizona Posts: 9,500	scruffylookin wrote: People keep disregarding adventure packs as somehow "different." Make no mistake, adventure packs were very literally micro-transactions. When Bloodlines first came out (years ago, mind you), you had to pay 4 bucks to access the zone. And that included the loot. I paid money for bloodlines for absolutely no other reason than the fact that I wanted that vampire illusion. And yet, nobody complained about "microtransactions" then. To the people that say this is totally different, I don't see it. Adventure packs were literally paying small amounts of money for content and items. So everytime you wanted to access BLC you had to pay $4.99 to SOE and hope to get a random key? Oh wait, no. You paid $4.99 for a mini-expansion that you can still access today. __________________

10-02-2009, 08:18 PM	#714
Deveryn Server: Lucan DLere Guild: Fourth Wall Rank: Emperor Loremaster Join Date: Jun 2008 Posts: 1,302	Lasai wrote: Deveryn@Lucan DLere wrote: Glenedhel@Antonia Bayle wrote: Deveryn@Lucan DLere wrote: Quit swearing up a storm at them and nothing will get deleted. Try being civil. Civility gets the suggestions and feedback through 100% of the time. I have not sworn once, everything has been **'d out. Yeah. The blind rage is still there. You and others need to relax and just wait to see what this doomsday item is. In the meantime, have a look at what's actually come from LoN packs. You'll see no trend towards anything that will have a significant impact on the gameplay, which is primarily NPC combat. That is your definition of gameplay, and a narrow one. My gameplay definately involves collecting, questing for, wearing and displaying items useless in combat. Many people do.. and look at the popularity of fluff instances.. frostfell, the mushroom rings, etc. Gameplay is the whole game, and I can think of a whole slew of full time crafters who would take issue with the "primarily NPC combat" simplification you made. LoN has impacted my gameplay from the very start. For me, the item in question is not a mystery. It is a key to exclusive content denied to a paid subscriber. That is all I need to know to oppose it. It is the concept of the special instance, not what it contains. How are you denied? Everyone has to pay the same money for a shot at it, if they don't get it in the free packs. There's also a chance, if you have any friends, that you'll be able to access that zone. __________________

10-02-2009, 08:20 PM	#715
Juravael Loremaster Join Date: Nov 2004 Posts: 997	Calse wrote : No matter how badly a company does something, there is never a reason or need to use profanity. I strongly disagree. When a company screws you over and will not work with you to correct the problem then there is ample reason to use profanity, just as there would be with anyone. I could use an example from this very afternoon when Dish Network sent a wireless modem via UPS but had the wrong address so I never recieved it and thus was told that I would now have to wait until Monday morning at the earliest. They kept telling me to call UPS and UPS kept telling me to call Dish Network.. so yes a lot of profanity got used over the phone this afternoon and my wireless modem got delivered within two hours.

10-02-2009, 08:20 PM	#716
Melanchol Server: Oasis Guild: Paradise Lost Rank: Friends and Family General Join Date: Nov 2004 Posts: 226	I'm certain that all these LoN supporters will have no issue with SOE making all access keys for Frostfell, Moonlight Enchantments, Nights of the Dead, and all the other "fluff" zones available only to those players who loot the key off of Anashti Sul, or Ykesha. It's ok to make "fluff" content exclusive. It is especially OK if the "fluff" content has loot and items that are highly sought after and useful in game.

10-02-2009, 08:20 PM	#717
Lasai Loremaster Join Date: Sep 2005 Location: my own basement Posts: 1,295	Gage wrote: scruffylookin wrote: People keep disregarding adventure packs as somehow "different." Make no mistake, adventure packs were very literally micro-transactions. When Bloodlines first came out (years ago, mind you), you had to pay 4 bucks to access the zone. And that included the loot. I paid money for bloodlines for absolutely no other reason than the fact that I wanted that vampire illusion. And yet, nobody complained about "microtransactions" then. To the people that say this is totally different, I don't see it. Adventure packs were literally paying small amounts of money for content and items. So everytime you wanted to access BLC you had to pay $4.99 to SOE and hope to get a random key? Oh wait, no. You paid $4.99 for a mini-expansion that you can still access today. 4.99 per char as well.. Adv. Packs were acct based. LoN items are char based. __________________ Never try to teach a pig to whistle. It only frustrates you and annoys the pig.

10-02-2009, 08:22 PM	#718
Gaige Loremaster Join Date: Nov 2004 Location: Arizona Posts: 9,500	Cypernicus@Nektulos wrote: I don't see why it would be on test. It's not something being offered to eq2 players, it's a reward for LoN players. You don't see why an EQ2 instance full of EQ2 content would be on the EQ2 test server? __________________

10-02-2009, 08:22 PM	#719
Lasai Loremaster Join Date: Sep 2005 Location: my own basement Posts: 1,295	Deveryn@Lucan DLere wrote: Lasai wrote: And, if you mean what rewards LoN players should have here.. why. I get nothing for my participation in Vanguard here, nothing for my participation in SWG here. What makes LoN players special? At least I pay a sub for my other SOE games. It almost sounds like a good idea to have crossover with other games, but there's the major problem of SWG content not fitting into this world and vice versa. Imagine the uproar, especially on RP servers. Vanguard and EQ crossovers would be pointless. Who said LoN players were special? You're comparing apples and oranges. MMO vs. card game? What? Snip quoting is bad, mmmkay, I never said that.. someone asked what items LoN players should have here, and I responded. __________________ Never try to teach a pig to whistle. It only frustrates you and annoys the pig.

10-02-2009, 08:24 PM	#720
Melanchol Server: Oasis Guild: Paradise Lost Rank: Friends and Family General Join Date: Nov 2004 Posts: 226	I'm certain that all these LoN supporters will have no problems with SOE spending DEV time to create an exclusive "fluff" zone that they can manually hand out access to their in game friends. The zone isn;t required. it's not necessary.... but only people on SOE DEV friends list will be granted access to this exclusive content developed by developers who were taken off projects fixing the game or working on the expansion in order to make this exclusive zone for themselevs and for their friends. All LoN exclusive zone supporters should have no problem with this, because it doesn;t effect their gameplay.