Early achievers get no recognition. - Page 2

Yimway · 09-25-2009, 11:12 AM

CoLD MeTaL wrote:

kela wrote:
{0}
I have been a professional developer for more than 20 years, I know exactly what it would entail. You can say "Not cost effective" and you can say "Not worth the funds", but hard/difficult/whatever that is what work is. However customers should be taken care of, and if you are going to be asinine enough to introduce a system like this 5 years after the system has been put in place, you do the freaking work. half-a**ed doesn't even come close to how this was done, speaking as a developer. It's like converting an accoounting system and not making sure the balance sheet is right because it 'would take too much time'.

Cold_Metal, frankly to put this requirement on deploying the feature would have simply taken it off the table and we wouldn't have got it at all.

So would you rather have no feature, or what was delivered?

There was a poll and discussion on this very topic prior to release, and using the metric that it launched with was the overwelming majority opinion for those that participated.

Valdaglerion · 09-25-2009, 11:48 AM

Gungo wrote:

just to be crystal clear on how pathetic people crying about these updates are.
In the 2 days since the patch i have finished EVERY SINGLE POIEVERY SINGLE GENERAL (except slayers)EVERY SINGLE QUEST (except Holiday and 4000 quests)I SOLOED EVERY RAID in t5/t6 including splitpaw (except djinn mster need 3 people at least)EVERY crafting mission (need 1000 Combines)
I did this in 2 days with my server down most of yesterday evening.Working on the dugeons now.

Mind telling us how you exploited the Tradeskill missions to get all 4 of them done in 2 days when it only gives you 1 per day?

On another note - to the OP . . .

During test the question was posed by me concerning quest update mobs. Rothgar stated it was too timely and not efficient to check for all the quest update mobs to cross reference those where AA credit wasnt given. The way they did retro credit was the most effective way they could given the time contraint. I feel your pain and empathize on that one truly but at the end of the day, it will be ok. Not like we are missing out on uber rewards or acknowledgments anyway, most done have rewards /shrug.

CoLD MeTaL · 09-25-2009, 12:16 PM

bryldan wrote:

CoLD MeTaL wrote:
If they did this we would have more ppl complaining/DEMANDING money back from the servers being down a few days would that be reasonable for you to get credit on a few things that takes minutes to go do? In those three days of downtime instead of not playing you could have gone and done everything that you were missing so look at it that way.

Please, processing historical logs can be done offline and then yield an update script of historical information that could be done most likely with no down time at all.

And a lot of these things are raid things that no one wants to go back and do, some requiring access quests that are major camp fests and so NO they cannot be done in a short amount of time. When is the last time anyone wanted to go raid the God King?

You got to think outside the box, which is my point to SOE.

With that being said, I have already accepted what was done (esp since there is no choice) and I go on. I really just wanted to have my say that yet again SOE chose to shaft long time players, and I would prefer that they refrain in the future. (not that anyone cares of course, but hey now I have said it)

Good hunting all.

EDIT: **Does not meet entrance requirements** (Does that mean something to anyone?)

Yimway · 09-25-2009, 12:22 PM

CoLD MeTaL wrote:

And a lot of these things are raid things that no one wants to go back and do, some requiring access quests that are major camp fests and so NO they cannot be done in a short amount of time. When is the last time anyone wanted to go raid the God King?

Um, one of the minor nameds drops 5-12 t6 rares every single time you kill him.

I used a mentor group to kill godking everytime the zone reset for a couple of months.

You no longer need to farm anything to do the zone, the door just opens. Any access quest to do any of these raid zones you've already done if you've killed it before.

The only one I found annoying so far was Darathar, as everyone in the raid must have done the access quest, and you can't zone in people who haven't done it. He was actually a little tough to trio with swash, fury, wizard, the only 3 people I could round up at the time to kill him. But it still died.

As I said before, the only one I don't look forward to repeating is DMP, as well, its annoying even when outleveling it.

Dasein · 09-25-2009, 12:28 PM

CoLD MeTaL wrote:

bryldan wrote:
CoLD MeTaL wrote:
If they did this we would have more ppl complaining/DEMANDING money back from the servers being down a few days would that be reasonable for you to get credit on a few things that takes minutes to go do? In those three days of downtime instead of not playing you could have gone and done everything that you were missing so look at it that way.
Please, processing historical logs can be done offline and then yield an update script of historical information that could be done most likely with no down time at all.
And a lot of these things are raid things that no one wants to go back and do, some requiring access quests that are major camp fests and so NO they cannot be done in a short amount of time. When is the last time anyone wanted to go raid the God King?
You got to think outside the box, which is my point to SOE.
With that being said, I have already accepted what was done (esp since there is no choice) and I go on. I really just wanted to have my say that yet again SOE chose to shaft long time players, and I would prefer that they refrain in the future. (not that anyone cares of course, but hey now I have said it)
Good hunting all.
EDIT: **Does not meet entrance requirements** (Does that mean something to anyone?)

Long term players are not getting shafted - SOE had no obligation to try and backfill achievements for any repeatable content. That they got some in is a bonus, not a failure.

Queen Alexandria · 09-25-2009, 01:28 PM

I totally misunderstood what they meant by retroactive. I thought all the named kills were going to be accounted for reguardless of having AA caped or not. At this point I realize now it would have been better if none of it was retroactive because now I would actually be able to group with folks who do care about achievement and be willing to group and redo some of them just for the sake. As it is now, there are some but still few who don't wish to waste anymore time redoing what they have already done specially if their achievements are accurately updated with the proper kill.

Anastasie · 09-25-2009, 02:19 PM

I'm definately disappointed about not getting credit for a large number of Raid mobs.

One major question I have about these new Journal Achievements is whether completing them now will prevent you from getting actual Alternate Achievement credit when the new expansion launches. I would hate to run around and get all of these updates (again) only to then not get "real" AA's with the new expansion.

bryldan · 09-25-2009, 02:24 PM

Annelise@Guk wrote:

I'm definately disappointed about not getting credit for a large number of Raid mobs.
One major question I have about these new Journal Achievements is whether completing them now will prevent you from getting actual Alternate Achievement credit when the new expansion launches. I would hate to run around and get all of these updates (again) only to then not get "real" AA's with the new expansion.

I very well doubt that since they will be on seperate logs i am sure. Theres probably now a log that tracks each of those achievements if you have done them or not and also the old log that gives you credit for getting AA for killing any named or visiting any location such and such.....

ke'la · 09-25-2009, 03:10 PM

Zenaide@Mistmoore wrote:

I totally misunderstood what they meant by retroactive. I thought all the named kills were going to be accounted for reguardless of having AA caped or not. At this point I realize now it would have been better if none of it was retroactive because now I would actually be able to group with folks who do care about achievement and be willing to group and redo some of them just for the sake. As it is now, there are some but still few who don't wish to waste anymore time redoing what they have already done specially if their achievements are accurately updated with the proper kill.

Everytime the devs stayed anything about it being Retro they said they would only be able to give you credit for kills that gave you AAxp. So if you didn't know then you where not paying attention to what the Devs where saying.

Aurel · 09-25-2009, 03:30 PM

Zenaide@Mistmoore wrote:

At this point I realize now it would have been better if none of it was retroactive because now I would actually be able to group with folks who do care about achievement and be willing to group and redo some of them just for the sake. As it is now, there are some but still few who don't wish to waste anymore time redoing what they have already done specially if their achievements are accurately updated with the proper kill.

*blink* So... what you're saying is... it's acceptable to get no credit, but if you get some credit, then that's uncool? I can guarantee that if they had done no retro, people would still be complaining that there was no retro... Either way, you have to redo stuff. This way, you have to redo less. I would have thought that was a good thing... *shrug*

[EDIT] Trying to put this in another context...

Boss: Hey, Employee! Look, I know you wrote this document already, but the software has been updated and the file format isn't compatible.Employee: *sobs*Boss: We are able to get some of it to transfer over, but the formatting is off, and some of it is missing. Is that okay?Employee: No, I want to start from scratch!

... *shrug* I guess it just depends on how your brain works.

Ahlana · 09-25-2009, 03:37 PM

Aurelis wrote:

Zenaide@Mistmoore wrote:
At this point I realize now it would have been better if none of it was retroactive because now I would actually be able to group with folks who do care about achievement and be willing to group and redo some of them just for the sake. As it is now, there are some but still few who don't wish to waste anymore time redoing what they have already done specially if their achievements are accurately updated with the proper kill.
*blink* So... what you're saying is... it's acceptable to get no credit, but if you get some credit, then that's uncool? I can guarantee that if they had done no retro, people would still be complaining that there was no retro... Either way, you have to redo stuff. This way, you have to redo less. I would have thought that was a good thing... *shrug*
[EDIT] Trying to put this in another context...
Boss: Hey, Employee! Look, I know you wrote this document already, but the software has been updated and the file format isn't compatible.Employee: *sobs*Boss: We are able to get some of it to transfer over, but the formatting is off, and some of it is missing. Is that okay?Employee: No, I want to start from scratch!
... *shrug* I guess it just depends on how your brain works.

I believe his problem would go more like this

Boss: Hey, Employee! Look, I know you wrote this document already, but the software has been updated and the file format isn't compatible.Employee: *sobs*Boss: We are able to get some of it to transfer over though so that you don't have to start from scratch.Employee: I Guess that is better than nothing, hey Employee2 wanna give me a hand?Employee2: Nah the part that transfered over was the part I already did so my job is done.

Hecula · 09-25-2009, 03:59 PM

Since the system was put in the way it was, I don't have anything further to say about it. I am, however, enjoying myself watching the people who argued for it to be done the way it was done trying to justify a system that rewarded based on luck and incomplete data.

I couldn't count the number of times on launch day I explained to people why they didn't get an achievement for something they killed or did many times long ago and all their buddies and guildmates did. The language filter prevents me from posting most of the replies I got regarding the way it was implemented.

I would love to see the metrics of how many petitions were created for missing achivements.

theriatis · 09-25-2009, 04:30 PM

Hi,

just one more question:

Will at least the Achievements we do now be tracked, so that we get AA for it when the Expansion comes, if you're now sitting at 200 AA ?

(I assume its a No, but can't hurt to ask SMILEY )

Regards, theriatis.

Dasein · 09-25-2009, 05:03 PM

theriatis wrote:

Hi,
just one more question:
Will at least the Achievements we do now be tracked, so that we get AA for it when the Expansion comes, if you're now sitting at 200 AA ?
(I assume its a No, but can't hurt to ask )
Regards, theriatis.

AAXP and achievements are not related. AAXP awards were used to backfill mob kills, but going forward, the two are not related, they just have similar names. Achievements are more closely related to quests (hence the reason they are in the quest journal) while AAXP is tracked like regular XP.

Deveryn · 09-25-2009, 05:13 PM

theriatis wrote:

Hi,
just one more question:
Will at least the Achievements we do now be tracked, so that we get AA for it when the Expansion comes, if you're now sitting at 200 AA ?
(I assume its a No, but can't hurt to ask )
Regards, theriatis.

They'll probably have enough questing and named mobs to make up for that.

Wingrider01 · 09-25-2009, 05:21 PM

CoLD MeTaL wrote:

kela wrote:
{0}
I have been a professional developer for more than 20 years, I know exactly what it would entail. You can say "Not cost effective" and you can say "Not worth the funds", but hard/difficult/whatever that is what work is. However customers should be taken care of, and if you are going to be asinine enough to introduce a system like this 5 years after the system has been put in place, you do the freaking work. half-a**ed doesn't even come close to how this was done, speaking as a developer. It's like converting an accoounting system and not making sure the balance sheet is right because it 'would take too much time'.

Then they should not have put it in at all, or not count ANY items, period. Personal prefer put it in, and everyone starts fresh

theriatis · 09-25-2009, 06:14 PM

Dasein wrote:

theriatis wrote:
Hi,
just one more question:
Will at least the Achievements we do now be tracked, so that we get AA for it when the Expansion comes, if you're now sitting at 200 AA ?
(I assume its a No, but can't hurt to ask )
Regards, theriatis.
AAXP and achievements are not related. AAXP awards were used to backfill mob kills, but going forward, the two are not related, they just have similar names. Achievements are more closely related to quests (hence the reason they are in the quest journal) while AAXP is tracked like regular XP.

Ok, i now the difference between Achievements and AA and how they are not related... so let me rephrase my question: Will what we do be then tracked (with the help of the new Achievement System), so that the things which would normally give AA will us get us AA when the XPansion comes out ?

Regards, theriatis.

Deveryn · 09-25-2009, 06:45 PM

theriatis wrote:

Dasein wrote:
theriatis wrote:
Hi,
just one more question:
Will at least the Achievements we do now be tracked, so that we get AA for it when the Expansion comes, if you're now sitting at 200 AA ?
(I assume its a No, but can't hurt to ask )
Regards, theriatis.
AAXP and achievements are not related. AAXP awards were used to backfill mob kills, but going forward, the two are not related, they just have similar names. Achievements are more closely related to quests (hence the reason they are in the quest journal) while AAXP is tracked like regular XP.
Ok, i now the difference between Achievements and AA and how they are not related... so let me rephrase my question: Will what we do be then tracked (with the help of the new Achievement System), so that the things which would normally give AA will us get us AA when the XPansion comes out ?
Regards, theriatis.

The answer would still be no. It's extra work that they really don't need to do, since (as I mentioned before) they will have enough AAXP to more than cover the requirements of the next expansion. If you didn't get flagged for a kill after capping AA, how is having the achievement going to help? There are those who did get credit that have the achievement. There's no way for them to tell who to award AAXP to. While people find it unfair that they don't get certain achievements, it's even more unfair to have other people get a head start like that when the expansion rolls around. A person should not start off an expansion with a 20 AA lead because of an error in a system that has no real impact on the game and progression.

As for the other achievement system complaints, just deal with it already. SMILEY The game was not designed with this system in mind, so it's not going to be anywhere near perfect. Be happy with everything they *did* count.

Valdaglerion · 09-25-2009, 07:49 PM

Deveryn@Lucan DLere wrote:

theriatis wrote:
Hi,
just one more question:
Will at least the Achievements we do now be tracked, so that we get AA for it when the Expansion comes, if you're now sitting at 200 AA ?
(I assume its a No, but can't hurt to ask )
Regards, theriatis.
They'll probably have enough questing and named mobs to make up for that.

That question was asked specifically during Testing too and the answer was "No, there is no escrow system for AA XP. When the level cap is raised for AA with the new expansion you will have to go back and killed any named mobs again you have not received AA XP for."

Dunce123 · 09-25-2009, 08:25 PM

Might be i bug, but is anyone else not getting Credit for levels.

I have a lvl 80 toon but only have credit for lvl 10,20,30,70, 80. Only 50 points in general

Seems the whole counting past credit needed some more testing.

Crismorn · 09-25-2009, 08:32 PM

Calm down guys its not like this achievment thing means anything at all.

1. There is no useful item reward for doing this

2. There is no bonus aa reward for doing this

3. No gear reward worth using

Its basically just a dumb time sink for people that will in no way increase your character

Bregdania · 09-25-2009, 10:04 PM

I do find it ironic that you can have Master Crafters who have 0/1000 items crafted! Let alone ones that are capable of making the Shard armor and have not been credited with the achievement for the quests.

Ah well /shrug ... as people have said - what does it matter as far as the journal achievements are concerned - which brings me to the point - if you can't do it right - why bother with the journal achievements at all.

OH thats right - there are people out there that are capped to 80/80 with 200 aa's and need something else to do until the expansion.

ok /irony switched off now. All in all I like quite a lot of stuff that has been presented so I'll think about that instead.

Queen Alexandria · 09-25-2009, 10:05 PM

Cop: Sorry you got mugged, we were however able to recover 15 dollars out of the 20,000 that was in your briefcase. Victim: Thats terrible! It took me almost 5 years to save up that much money. Cop: I'm sorry, but we just don't have the time to search the entire city for the mugger. You should probably start saving up again. Anyways, we should go grab a donut, you should pick up the tab since you still have 15 bucks left.

Since were doing this type of comparisons we should all agree to having our own take on things. I feel more like I got robbed than anything else. You feel like you got lucky from something that is just bad luck, but its not... they had control over implementing this and this is the result.

You might not be upset but, a lot are. Why does it always have to be the lesser of two evils?

Kendricke · 09-25-2009, 10:17 PM

Ranncor@Befallen wrote:

Many years of professional experience in the field qualifies me since you asked.

"Also, I am a scientist."

Aurel · 09-25-2009, 10:35 PM

*boggles*

... I don't understand how getting a whole new system of achievements and things to play with is comparable to getting mugged and losing money. /: However, to each his own. To me, it's like having typed up a document, it getting outdated, and having to patch it back together. *shrug* I guess the different perception on the answer to the basic fundamental question, "Is this fun ((though I like to type documents / organize information)) or is this getting punched and left in the back of an alley?" is why there is conflict in opinion here. Me, I had an opinion, I voted, and this is the result. Que sera sera.

Gungo · 09-25-2009, 11:55 PM

Artemiz@The Bazaar wrote:

Gungo wrote:
just to be crystal clear on how pathetic people crying about these updates are.
In the 2 days since the patch i have finished EVERY SINGLE POIEVERY SINGLE GENERAL (except slayers)EVERY SINGLE QUEST (except Holiday and 4000 quests)I SOLOED EVERY RAID in t5/t6 including splitpaw (except djinn mster need 3 people at least)EVERY crafting mission (need 1000 Combines)
I did this in 2 days with my server down most of yesterday evening.Working on the dugeons now.
Mind telling us how you exploited the Tradeskill missions to get all 4 of them done in 2 days when it only gives you 1 per day?
On another note - to the OP . . .
During test the question was posed by me concerning quest update mobs. Rothgar stated it was too timely and not efficient to check for all the quest update mobs to cross reference those where AA credit wasnt given. The way they did retro credit was the most effective way they could given the time contraint. I feel your pain and empathize on that one truly but at the end of the day, it will be ok. Not like we are missing out on uber rewards or acknowledgments anyway, most done have rewards /shrug.

Easy 1 in journal (over 24 hour duration) 1 when live update hits, 1 next day (24 hours), and 24 hours after that. = 2 days

Gungo · 09-25-2009, 11:58 PM

Zenaide@Mistmoore wrote:

Gungo wrote:
just to be crystal clear on how pathetic people crying about these updates are.
In the 2 days since the patch i have finished EVERY SINGLE POIEVERY SINGLE GENERAL (except slayers)EVERY SINGLE QUEST (except Holiday and 4000 quests)I SOLOED EVERY RAID in t5/t6 including splitpaw (except djinn mster need 3 people at least)EVERY crafting mission (need 1000 Combines)
I did this in 2 days with my server down most of yesterday evening.Working on the dugeons now.
Grats dude. You want to join me in therapy? Thats a lot of gaming in two days.

Naw Seems you need all the time you can get. I was "lucky" i caught a cold and took the day off work.

Gungo · 09-26-2009, 12:32 AM

Now for actual feedback instead of crying....

Gannos Voidwhisper in Forsaken City is an acheivement NPC that was missed in the Named update.It has a PH and a 45 min respawn timer. It took 6 spawns before I was able to spawn him today. The placeholder a Forsaken Reseacher needs to be removed.

found another 45 min PH named.Lieunant Gordak in Soleusk EyePh is flamelord.

Queen Alexandria · 09-26-2009, 02:34 AM

I got quite a few done today but I am still dreading having to revisit all the KoS raid mobs.

Rothgar · 09-26-2009, 02:56 AM

Hey guys, this is nothing new. We have multiple quests in the game that require you hail the same guy or kill the same mob. For example, if I were to complete Trakanon access and then decide to do my Mythical, I don't automatically get updates for the epic kills, I'd have to do them again. At the request of 78% of the player-base we decided to give you credit for tracked AA kills, but at the start of this whole thing, we weren't even going to do that. Yes, this isn't a foolproof system, but its what you guys asked for. We even took a vote on it.

As with anything else in the game if this system has no value to you, you don't have to do it. This is a game and its supposed to be fun. We're trying to give you more fun things to do. If going back and revisiting some of those encounters isn't fun for you, we don't expect you to do it.

09-25-2009, 11:12 AM	#31
Yimway Loremaster Join Date: Apr 2005 Posts: 9,707	CoLD MeTaL wrote: kela wrote: {0} I have been a professional developer for more than 20 years, I know exactly what it would entail. You can say "Not cost effective" and you can say "Not worth the funds", but hard/difficult/whatever that is what work is. However customers should be taken care of, and if you are going to be asinine enough to introduce a system like this 5 years after the system has been put in place, you do the freaking work. half-a**ed doesn't even come close to how this was done, speaking as a developer. It's like converting an accoounting system and not making sure the balance sheet is right because it 'would take too much time'. Cold_Metal, frankly to put this requirement on deploying the feature would have simply taken it off the table and we wouldn't have got it at all. So would you rather have no feature, or what was delivered? There was a poll and discussion on this very topic prior to release, and using the metric that it launched with was the overwelming majority opinion for those that participated. __________________

09-25-2009, 11:48 AM	#32
Valdaglerion Loremaster Join Date: Nov 2006 Posts: 3,870	Gungo wrote: just to be crystal clear on how pathetic people crying about these updates are. In the 2 days since the patch i have finished EVERY SINGLE POIEVERY SINGLE GENERAL (except slayers)EVERY SINGLE QUEST (except Holiday and 4000 quests)I SOLOED EVERY RAID in t5/t6 including splitpaw (except djinn mster need 3 people at least)EVERY crafting mission (need 1000 Combines) I did this in 2 days with my server down most of yesterday evening.Working on the dugeons now. Mind telling us how you exploited the Tradeskill missions to get all 4 of them done in 2 days when it only gives you 1 per day? On another note - to the OP . . . During test the question was posed by me concerning quest update mobs. Rothgar stated it was too timely and not efficient to check for all the quest update mobs to cross reference those where AA credit wasnt given. The way they did retro credit was the most effective way they could given the time contraint. I feel your pain and empathize on that one truly but at the end of the day, it will be ok. Not like we are missing out on uber rewards or acknowledgments anyway, most done have rewards /shrug.

09-25-2009, 12:16 PM	#33
CoLD MeTaL Loremaster Join Date: Apr 2005 Posts: 3,217	bryldan wrote: CoLD MeTaL wrote: If they did this we would have more ppl complaining/DEMANDING money back from the servers being down a few days would that be reasonable for you to get credit on a few things that takes minutes to go do? In those three days of downtime instead of not playing you could have gone and done everything that you were missing so look at it that way. Please, processing historical logs can be done offline and then yield an update script of historical information that could be done most likely with no down time at all. And a lot of these things are raid things that no one wants to go back and do, some requiring access quests that are major camp fests and so NO they cannot be done in a short amount of time. When is the last time anyone wanted to go raid the God King? You got to think outside the box, which is my point to SOE. With that being said, I have already accepted what was done (esp since there is no choice) and I go on. I really just wanted to have my say that yet again SOE chose to shaft long time players, and I would prefer that they refrain in the future. (not that anyone cares of course, but hey now I have said it) Good hunting all. EDIT: Does not meet entrance requirements (Does that mean something to anyone?) __________________

09-25-2009, 12:22 PM	#34
Yimway Loremaster Join Date: Apr 2005 Posts: 9,707	CoLD MeTaL wrote: And a lot of these things are raid things that no one wants to go back and do, some requiring access quests that are major camp fests and so NO they cannot be done in a short amount of time. When is the last time anyone wanted to go raid the God King? Um, one of the minor nameds drops 5-12 t6 rares every single time you kill him. I used a mentor group to kill godking everytime the zone reset for a couple of months. You no longer need to farm anything to do the zone, the door just opens. Any access quest to do any of these raid zones you've already done if you've killed it before. The only one I found annoying so far was Darathar, as everyone in the raid must have done the access quest, and you can't zone in people who haven't done it. He was actually a little tough to trio with swash, fury, wizard, the only 3 people I could round up at the time to kill him. But it still died. As I said before, the only one I don't look forward to repeating is DMP, as well, its annoying even when outleveling it. __________________

09-25-2009, 12:28 PM	#35
Dasein Loremaster Join Date: Nov 2004 Posts: 2,847	CoLD MeTaL wrote: bryldan wrote: CoLD MeTaL wrote: If they did this we would have more ppl complaining/DEMANDING money back from the servers being down a few days would that be reasonable for you to get credit on a few things that takes minutes to go do? In those three days of downtime instead of not playing you could have gone and done everything that you were missing so look at it that way. Please, processing historical logs can be done offline and then yield an update script of historical information that could be done most likely with no down time at all. And a lot of these things are raid things that no one wants to go back and do, some requiring access quests that are major camp fests and so NO they cannot be done in a short amount of time. When is the last time anyone wanted to go raid the God King? You got to think outside the box, which is my point to SOE. With that being said, I have already accepted what was done (esp since there is no choice) and I go on. I really just wanted to have my say that yet again SOE chose to shaft long time players, and I would prefer that they refrain in the future. (not that anyone cares of course, but hey now I have said it) Good hunting all. EDIT: Does not meet entrance requirements (Does that mean something to anyone?) Long term players are not getting shafted - SOE had no obligation to try and backfill achievements for any repeatable content. That they got some in is a bonus, not a failure. __________________ Troll Lord Casywdian

09-25-2009, 01:28 PM	#36
Queen Alexandria Loremaster Join Date: Nov 2004 Posts: 221	I totally misunderstood what they meant by retroactive. I thought all the named kills were going to be accounted for reguardless of having AA caped or not. At this point I realize now it would have been better if none of it was retroactive because now I would actually be able to group with folks who do care about achievement and be willing to group and redo some of them just for the sake. As it is now, there are some but still few who don't wish to waste anymore time redoing what they have already done specially if their achievements are accurately updated with the proper kill. __________________

09-25-2009, 02:19 PM	#37
Anastasie Loremaster Join Date: Dec 2005 Posts: 850	I'm definately disappointed about not getting credit for a large number of Raid mobs. One major question I have about these new Journal Achievements is whether completing them now will prevent you from getting actual Alternate Achievement credit when the new expansion launches. I would hate to run around and get all of these updates (again) only to then not get "real" AA's with the new expansion.

09-25-2009, 02:24 PM	#38
bryldan Loremaster Join Date: May 2006 Posts: 692	Annelise@Guk wrote: I'm definately disappointed about not getting credit for a large number of Raid mobs. One major question I have about these new Journal Achievements is whether completing them now will prevent you from getting actual Alternate Achievement credit when the new expansion launches. I would hate to run around and get all of these updates (again) only to then not get "real" AA's with the new expansion. I very well doubt that since they will be on seperate logs i am sure. Theres probably now a log that tracks each of those achievements if you have done them or not and also the old log that gives you credit for getting AA for killing any named or visiting any location such and such.....

09-25-2009, 03:10 PM	#39
ke'la Loremaster Join Date: Dec 2004 Posts: 5,445	Zenaide@Mistmoore wrote: I totally misunderstood what they meant by retroactive. I thought all the named kills were going to be accounted for reguardless of having AA caped or not. At this point I realize now it would have been better if none of it was retroactive because now I would actually be able to group with folks who do care about achievement and be willing to group and redo some of them just for the sake. As it is now, there are some but still few who don't wish to waste anymore time redoing what they have already done specially if their achievements are accurately updated with the proper kill. Everytime the devs stayed anything about it being Retro they said they would only be able to give you credit for kills that gave you AAxp. So if you didn't know then you where not paying attention to what the Devs where saying. __________________

09-25-2009, 03:30 PM	#40
Aurel Book Goddess Join Date: Mar 2006 Location: The Bazaar Posts: 669	Zenaide@Mistmoore wrote: At this point I realize now it would have been better if none of it was retroactive because now I would actually be able to group with folks who do care about achievement and be willing to group and redo some of them just for the sake. As it is now, there are some but still few who don't wish to waste anymore time redoing what they have already done specially if their achievements are accurately updated with the proper kill. blink So... what you're saying is... it's acceptable to get no credit, but if you get some credit, then that's uncool? I can guarantee that if they had done no retro, people would still be complaining that there was no retro... Either way, you have to redo stuff. This way, you have to redo less. I would have thought that was a good thing... shrug [EDIT] Trying to put this in another context... Boss: Hey, Employee! Look, I know you wrote this document already, but the software has been updated and the file format isn't compatible.Employee: sobsBoss: We are able to get some of it to transfer over, but the formatting is off, and some of it is missing. Is that okay?Employee: No, I want to start from scratch! ... shrug I guess it just depends on how your brain works. __________________

09-25-2009, 03:37 PM	#41
Ahlana Loremaster Join Date: Dec 2004 Posts: 2,238	Aurelis wrote: Zenaide@Mistmoore wrote: At this point I realize now it would have been better if none of it was retroactive because now I would actually be able to group with folks who do care about achievement and be willing to group and redo some of them just for the sake. As it is now, there are some but still few who don't wish to waste anymore time redoing what they have already done specially if their achievements are accurately updated with the proper kill. blink So... what you're saying is... it's acceptable to get no credit, but if you get some credit, then that's uncool? I can guarantee that if they had done no retro, people would still be complaining that there was no retro... Either way, you have to redo stuff. This way, you have to redo less. I would have thought that was a good thing... shrug [EDIT] Trying to put this in another context... Boss: Hey, Employee! Look, I know you wrote this document already, but the software has been updated and the file format isn't compatible.Employee: sobsBoss: We are able to get some of it to transfer over, but the formatting is off, and some of it is missing. Is that okay?Employee: No, I want to start from scratch! ... shrug I guess it just depends on how your brain works. I believe his problem would go more like this Boss: Hey, Employee! Look, I know you wrote this document already, but the software has been updated and the file format isn't compatible.Employee: sobsBoss: We are able to get some of it to transfer over though so that you don't have to start from scratch.Employee: I Guess that is better than nothing, hey Employee2 wanna give me a hand?Employee2: Nah the part that transfered over was the part I already did so my job is done. __________________

09-25-2009, 03:59 PM	#42
Hecula Loremaster Join Date: Nov 2004 Posts: 422	Since the system was put in the way it was, I don't have anything further to say about it. I am, however, enjoying myself watching the people who argued for it to be done the way it was done trying to justify a system that rewarded based on luck and incomplete data. I couldn't count the number of times on launch day I explained to people why they didn't get an achievement for something they killed or did many times long ago and all their buddies and guildmates did. The language filter prevents me from posting most of the replies I got regarding the way it was implemented. I would love to see the metrics of how many petitions were created for missing achivements.

09-25-2009, 04:30 PM	#43
theriatis Loremaster Join Date: Nov 2004 Posts: 927	Hi, just one more question: Will at least the Achievements we do now be tracked, so that we get AA for it when the Expansion comes, if you're now sitting at 200 AA ? (I assume its a No, but can't hurt to ask ) Regards, theriatis. __________________ If you're laughing at my (english) grammar, just try writing in my language; i need a good laugh now and then, too

09-25-2009, 05:03 PM	#44
Dasein Loremaster Join Date: Nov 2004 Posts: 2,847	theriatis wrote: Hi, just one more question: Will at least the Achievements we do now be tracked, so that we get AA for it when the Expansion comes, if you're now sitting at 200 AA ? (I assume its a No, but can't hurt to ask ) Regards, theriatis. AAXP and achievements are not related. AAXP awards were used to backfill mob kills, but going forward, the two are not related, they just have similar names. Achievements are more closely related to quests (hence the reason they are in the quest journal) while AAXP is tracked like regular XP. __________________ Troll Lord Casywdian

09-25-2009, 05:13 PM	#45
Deveryn Server: Lucan DLere Guild: Fourth Wall Rank: Emperor Loremaster Join Date: Jun 2008 Posts: 1,302	theriatis wrote: Hi, just one more question: Will at least the Achievements we do now be tracked, so that we get AA for it when the Expansion comes, if you're now sitting at 200 AA ? (I assume its a No, but can't hurt to ask ) Regards, theriatis. They'll probably have enough questing and named mobs to make up for that. __________________

09-25-2009, 05:21 PM	#46
Wingrider01 Loremaster Join Date: Nov 2004 Posts: 5,999	CoLD MeTaL wrote: kela wrote: {0} I have been a professional developer for more than 20 years, I know exactly what it would entail. You can say "Not cost effective" and you can say "Not worth the funds", but hard/difficult/whatever that is what work is. However customers should be taken care of, and if you are going to be asinine enough to introduce a system like this 5 years after the system has been put in place, you do the freaking work. half-a**ed doesn't even come close to how this was done, speaking as a developer. It's like converting an accoounting system and not making sure the balance sheet is right because it 'would take too much time'. Then they should not have put it in at all, or not count ANY items, period. Personal prefer put it in, and everyone starts fresh __________________ Fixing computer issues, one SOC7 at a time. Yes Jim, the user has experienced the dreaded PICNIC error

09-25-2009, 06:14 PM	#47
theriatis Loremaster Join Date: Nov 2004 Posts: 927	Dasein wrote: theriatis wrote: Hi, just one more question: Will at least the Achievements we do now be tracked, so that we get AA for it when the Expansion comes, if you're now sitting at 200 AA ? (I assume its a No, but can't hurt to ask ) Regards, theriatis. AAXP and achievements are not related. AAXP awards were used to backfill mob kills, but going forward, the two are not related, they just have similar names. Achievements are more closely related to quests (hence the reason they are in the quest journal) while AAXP is tracked like regular XP. Ok, i now the difference between Achievements and AA and how they are not related... so let me rephrase my question: Will what we do be then tracked (with the help of the new Achievement System), so that the things which would normally give AA will us get us AA when the XPansion comes out ? Regards, theriatis. __________________ If you're laughing at my (english) grammar, just try writing in my language; i need a good laugh now and then, too

09-25-2009, 06:45 PM	#48
Deveryn Server: Lucan DLere Guild: Fourth Wall Rank: Emperor Loremaster Join Date: Jun 2008 Posts: 1,302	theriatis wrote: Dasein wrote: theriatis wrote: Hi, just one more question: Will at least the Achievements we do now be tracked, so that we get AA for it when the Expansion comes, if you're now sitting at 200 AA ? (I assume its a No, but can't hurt to ask ) Regards, theriatis. AAXP and achievements are not related. AAXP awards were used to backfill mob kills, but going forward, the two are not related, they just have similar names. Achievements are more closely related to quests (hence the reason they are in the quest journal) while AAXP is tracked like regular XP. Ok, i now the difference between Achievements and AA and how they are not related... so let me rephrase my question: Will what we do be then tracked (with the help of the new Achievement System), so that the things which would normally give AA will us get us AA when the XPansion comes out ? Regards, theriatis. The answer would still be no. It's extra work that they really don't need to do, since (as I mentioned before) they will have enough AAXP to more than cover the requirements of the next expansion. If you didn't get flagged for a kill after capping AA, how is having the achievement going to help? There are those who did get credit that have the achievement. There's no way for them to tell who to award AAXP to. While people find it unfair that they don't get certain achievements, it's even more unfair to have other people get a head start like that when the expansion rolls around. A person should not start off an expansion with a 20 AA lead because of an error in a system that has no real impact on the game and progression. As for the other achievement system complaints, just deal with it already. The game was not designed with this system in mind, so it's not going to be anywhere near perfect. Be happy with everything they did count. __________________

09-25-2009, 07:49 PM	#49
Valdaglerion Loremaster Join Date: Nov 2006 Posts: 3,870	Deveryn@Lucan DLere wrote: theriatis wrote: Hi, just one more question: Will at least the Achievements we do now be tracked, so that we get AA for it when the Expansion comes, if you're now sitting at 200 AA ? (I assume its a No, but can't hurt to ask ) Regards, theriatis. They'll probably have enough questing and named mobs to make up for that. That question was asked specifically during Testing too and the answer was "No, there is no escrow system for AA XP. When the level cap is raised for AA with the new expansion you will have to go back and killed any named mobs again you have not received AA XP for."

09-25-2009, 08:25 PM	#50
Dunce123 Loremaster Join Date: Sep 2008 Posts: 56	Might be i bug, but is anyone else not getting Credit for levels. I have a lvl 80 toon but only have credit for lvl 10,20,30,70, 80. Only 50 points in general Seems the whole counting past credit needed some more testing.

09-25-2009, 08:32 PM	#51
Crismorn Loremaster Join Date: May 2006 Location: Vancouver Posts: 2,840	Calm down guys its not like this achievment thing means anything at all. 1. There is no useful item reward for doing this 2. There is no bonus aa reward for doing this 3. No gear reward worth using Its basically just a dumb time sink for people that will in no way increase your character

09-25-2009, 10:04 PM	#52
Bregdania Server: Najena Loremaster Join Date: Aug 2007 Posts: 303	I do find it ironic that you can have Master Crafters who have 0/1000 items crafted! Let alone ones that are capable of making the Shard armor and have not been credited with the achievement for the quests. Ah well /shrug ... as people have said - what does it matter as far as the journal achievements are concerned - which brings me to the point - if you can't do it right - why bother with the journal achievements at all. OH thats right - there are people out there that are capped to 80/80 with 200 aa's and need something else to do until the expansion. ok /irony switched off now. All in all I like quite a lot of stuff that has been presented so I'll think about that instead.

09-25-2009, 10:05 PM	#53
Queen Alexandria Loremaster Join Date: Nov 2004 Posts: 221	Cop: Sorry you got mugged, we were however able to recover 15 dollars out of the 20,000 that was in your briefcase. Victim: Thats terrible! It took me almost 5 years to save up that much money. Cop: I'm sorry, but we just don't have the time to search the entire city for the mugger. You should probably start saving up again. Anyways, we should go grab a donut, you should pick up the tab since you still have 15 bucks left. Since were doing this type of comparisons we should all agree to having our own take on things. I feel more like I got robbed than anything else. You feel like you got lucky from something that is just bad luck, but its not... they had control over implementing this and this is the result. You might not be upset but, a lot are. Why does it always have to be the lesser of two evils? __________________

09-25-2009, 10:17 PM	#54
Kendricke Loremaster Join Date: Nov 2004 Posts: 4,032	Ranncor@Befallen wrote: Many years of professional experience in the field qualifies me since you asked. "Also, I am a scientist." __________________ * -Opinions expressed in this post do not represent any current or past employers.

09-25-2009, 10:35 PM	#55
Aurel Book Goddess Join Date: Mar 2006 Location: The Bazaar Posts: 669	boggles ... I don't understand how getting a whole new system of achievements and things to play with is comparable to getting mugged and losing money. /: However, to each his own. To me, it's like having typed up a document, it getting outdated, and having to patch it back together. shrug I guess the different perception on the answer to the basic fundamental question, "Is this fun ((though I like to type documents / organize information)) or is this getting punched and left in the back of an alley?" is why there is conflict in opinion here. Me, I had an opinion, I voted, and this is the result. Que sera sera. __________________

09-25-2009, 11:55 PM	#56
Gungo Loremaster Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: Crushbone Posts: 5,378	Artemiz@The Bazaar wrote: Gungo wrote: just to be crystal clear on how pathetic people crying about these updates are. In the 2 days since the patch i have finished EVERY SINGLE POIEVERY SINGLE GENERAL (except slayers)EVERY SINGLE QUEST (except Holiday and 4000 quests)I SOLOED EVERY RAID in t5/t6 including splitpaw (except djinn mster need 3 people at least)EVERY crafting mission (need 1000 Combines) I did this in 2 days with my server down most of yesterday evening.Working on the dugeons now. Mind telling us how you exploited the Tradeskill missions to get all 4 of them done in 2 days when it only gives you 1 per day? On another note - to the OP . . . During test the question was posed by me concerning quest update mobs. Rothgar stated it was too timely and not efficient to check for all the quest update mobs to cross reference those where AA credit wasnt given. The way they did retro credit was the most effective way they could given the time contraint. I feel your pain and empathize on that one truly but at the end of the day, it will be ok. Not like we are missing out on uber rewards or acknowledgments anyway, most done have rewards /shrug. Easy 1 in journal (over 24 hour duration) 1 when live update hits, 1 next day (24 hours), and 24 hours after that. = 2 days

09-25-2009, 11:58 PM	#57
Gungo Loremaster Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: Crushbone Posts: 5,378	Zenaide@Mistmoore wrote: Gungo wrote: just to be crystal clear on how pathetic people crying about these updates are. In the 2 days since the patch i have finished EVERY SINGLE POIEVERY SINGLE GENERAL (except slayers)EVERY SINGLE QUEST (except Holiday and 4000 quests)I SOLOED EVERY RAID in t5/t6 including splitpaw (except djinn mster need 3 people at least)EVERY crafting mission (need 1000 Combines) I did this in 2 days with my server down most of yesterday evening.Working on the dugeons now. Grats dude. You want to join me in therapy? Thats a lot of gaming in two days. Naw Seems you need all the time you can get. I was "lucky" i caught a cold and took the day off work.

09-26-2009, 12:32 AM	#58
Gungo Loremaster Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: Crushbone Posts: 5,378	Now for actual feedback instead of crying.... Gannos Voidwhisper in Forsaken City is an acheivement NPC that was missed in the Named update.It has a PH and a 45 min respawn timer. It took 6 spawns before I was able to spawn him today. The placeholder a Forsaken Reseacher needs to be removed. found another 45 min PH named.Lieunant Gordak in Soleusk EyePh is flamelord.

09-26-2009, 02:34 AM	#59
Queen Alexandria Loremaster Join Date: Nov 2004 Posts: 221	I got quite a few done today but I am still dreading having to revisit all the KoS raid mobs. __________________

09-26-2009, 02:56 AM	#60
Rothgar Developer Join Date: Nov 2006 Location: San Diego Posts: 2,273	Hey guys, this is nothing new. We have multiple quests in the game that require you hail the same guy or kill the same mob. For example, if I were to complete Trakanon access and then decide to do my Mythical, I don't automatically get updates for the epic kills, I'd have to do them again. At the request of 78% of the player-base we decided to give you credit for tracked AA kills, but at the start of this whole thing, we weren't even going to do that. Yes, this isn't a foolproof system, but its what you guys asked for. We even took a vote on it. As with anything else in the game if this system has no value to you, you don't have to do it. This is a game and its supposed to be fun. We're trying to give you more fun things to do. If going back and revisiting some of those encounters isn't fun for you, we don't expect you to do it.