Requesting a 3rd test server for PvErs who copy from live

[Borias]

Kain-UK wrote:

Someone from a PvP server comes in and flames someone from a PvE server just because they don't like the idea of test_copy being switched back and forth... i'm sorry, but that doesn't surprise me.

Personally, I always thought there -were- two different copy servers, one for PvP and one for PvE, so I was very surprised to login and find test_copy had gone PvP. I wouldn't want it on there because I -am- running around documenting stuff to go on the site I help maintain. If people don't like that, well, i'm sorry... but that is my opinion. I don't appreciate being killed to enhance someone elses gaming experience when i'm actually trying to do some work.

So yeah, I would love to see a test_copy and test_copy_pvp. Maybe they can use the old Venekor server for it.

There are plenty of flames also coming from the PVE people, just saying.

I've posted it before, but here it is again- the fix that would basically work for the test copy server.

First- keep it pvp.

Second- implement a very quick and simple way for people to switch factions, so they can group with their guildies that copied over from a blue server.  Faster than exiling.  Something like a NPC only on test outside the gates that does it for you, with no loss of spells.

Third- Any zone that is *currently* under new testing has pvp disabled.  That means if there is a new instance, the zone it is in is disabled.  If there is a new big revamp or quest area, it's disabled for that zone. 

3.1- Any other zone is considered fair game and pvp enabled.  There's no reason to *need* no pvp in zones that have nothing new in them.  You can do all that legwork on your own server.  But real, legitimate new testing areas should be pvp free, and let people run around everywhere else and kill folk.

Fourth- Any new pvp items should be buyable with 1 token, or free, so you can test them immediately.  It's not like you keep the items forever anyways.

Is any of that unreasonable?  Both rulesets can co-exist on copy test, the actual 'pure' testers wouldn't step inside a non testing zone anyways, and they can go everywhere else to pvp and play with that, see if they like it, and test that aspect.

[Alienor]

Fayle@Mistmoore wrote:

I was not aware that the test_copy server was originally the pvp test server.

Well, with that argument we would never had to go through the horrors of LU13 Things change. Originally the US was a colony of UK. (Almost) nobody would insist being it that way again

Anyways, why do we have again keep the regular test server and can't enable /test_copy for this other non-pvp test server?

[Borias]

Alienor wrote:

Fayle@Mistmoore wrote:

I was not aware that the test_copy server was originally the pvp test server.

Well, with that argument we would never had to go through the horrors of LU13 Things change. Originally the US was a colony of UK. (Almost) nobody would insist being it that way again

Anyways, why do we have again keep the regular test server and can't enable /test_copy for this other non-pvp test server?

Check my idea above your post.  I believe it to handle most every need that an actual tester could want, and allow pvp as well, all on the same server.

[Bratface]

Borias@Nagafen wrote:

Alienor wrote:

Fayle@Mistmoore wrote:

I was not aware that the test_copy server was originally the pvp test server.

Well, with that argument we would never had to go through the horrors of LU13 Things change. Originally the US was a colony of UK. (Almost) nobody would insist being it that way again

Anyways, why do we have again keep the regular test server and can't enable /test_copy for this other non-pvp test server?

Check my idea above your post.  I believe it to handle most every need that an actual tester could want, and allow pvp as well, all on the same server.

No need, PvP can be turned off and the problem will be solved. It's only temporary.

[Borias]

Bratface wrote:

Borias@Nagafen wrote:

Alienor wrote:

Fayle@Mistmoore wrote:

I was not aware that the test_copy server was originally the pvp test server.

Well, with that argument we would never had to go through the horrors of LU13 Things change. Originally the US was a colony of UK. (Almost) nobody would insist being it that way again

Anyways, why do we have again keep the regular test server and can't enable /test_copy for this other non-pvp test server?

Check my idea above your post.  I believe it to handle most every need that an actual tester could want, and allow pvp as well, all on the same server.

No need, PvP can be turned off and the problem will be solved. It's only temporary.

Look dude.  I get it, you hate pvp, you dislike pvpers, even when they are trying to fix the problem that's causing you to throw a tantrum all over the boards and take your ball and not play, and you don't like being shown up on the boards.

But try to be constructive here.  Or don't even bother.

But by all means, if you can improve upon my idea, or come up with a 2nd one which allows everyone to do their testing in a way that seems to be wanted by *both* pvp and pve, then go ahead.  Otherwise, please just refrain from trying to fan the flames.

[Karrane1]

I wouldn't mind your ideas Borias.... with one addition. Make the docks PvP free also.. in all areas.. so ppl that are heading to the test zones can get there in one piece Like you said.. Test_Copy isnt there to just run around in.. its to test things out. I would come back to test_copy if these changes took place.

[KannaWhoopass]

Kitsune wrote:

This whole thing of "id bet every MMO that doesnt ship with PvP enabled from this day forward will fail on the shelf fact." got me looking up Daedelus. http://www.nickyee.com/daedalus/arc...ives/001466.php

Graphs there show 62.5% women strongly prefer PVE, 35.3% men strongly prefer PVE . As for PVP, 5.6% women and 18.3% men strongly prefer PVP. And of the men who prefer PVP most are younger players....as is said below.

"There are 3 main server types in current MMOs - PvE, PvP, and RP. The following are demographic andmotivational differences among players with regard to server type preference. I was most interested in thedifferences between PvE and PvP servers.Overall, female players are significantly more likely to prefer PvE servers while male players prefer PvPservers. There is also a substantial correlation with age - younger players prefer PvP servers (r = .2. Amultiple regression showed that the Competition and Mechanics (min-maxing) motivations are the bestpredictors for PvP server preference (r-squared = .32), as would be expected. Together, this suggeststhat players on PvP servers tend to have a higher proportion of male players and also tend to consist ofyounger players.This has an interesting effect on gender-bending rates. The higher proportion of male players increasesthe chances that a female avatar is being played by a male players. On a normal WoW server whereabout 85% of players are male, there is a 50% chance that a female player is being played by a maleplayer. If we assume that 90% of players are male on a PvP servers, there is an estimated 68% chance(about 2/3) that a female avatar is being played by a male player."

So I think your prediction on all MMOs being PVP or dying on the shelf is waaay off base. Interesting that so many men play female toons too, don't you think?

Like i said any MMO that wants to retain an audience will have PvP as a core component of the game. 

You can quote those things , and i really diont know where the stats come from , and its way off topic , but im sure im right , if MMO's what some of the market share from other games , they will need to incorperate the skill of playing VS a human into the game. No pixelated dragon , troll or game scripted event responds with the speed and varied responses of a human , and that varied response is what keeps a game new , Im a high end raider type , i have killed 99% of Everquest , i would have been gone 2.5 years ago if the PvP servers didn't arrive. 

And if it wasn't forr the rushed game play , untested featuers , and blatant imbalances when it was introduced , i think it could have been much more of a draw to the EQ community that it turned out to be. 

So to segway that back into the original thread, go test it on the server that was the PvP test server , and if you dont want to do that , go play on the blue servers that you are paying to play on , and leave the test server to people who want to aid the SoE staff to develop quality releases.  And in the release on the horizon a significant part of it is PvP updates.  

So get with the program , or go play elsewhere , this isn't a play server it's a testing server ... Go kill your buddy for a couple of hours , and test if you find it fair , unbalanced , do you ever drop that quest item you need by accident in pvp . 

Does being killed at a critical point in a quest line break the quest.  ???

[theriatis]

A simple "No-i-don't-want-to-participate-nor-Test-PvP-Changes" Flag for a player (like the [Removed for Content]-No_Duell Flag) would do the trick. Make that a permanent one (decided the first time you login on the Test Server with a new Toon) and there will be no Misuse then.

Regards, theriatis.

[SumOldMan]

Rijacki wrote:

Idolitor@Nagafen wrote:

Gage wrote:

Idolitor@Nagafen wrote:

But PvP is a game style , and i will argue that it is the future of all MMO's 

You'd lose that argument.

No i wont , id bet every MMO that doesnt ship with PvP enabled from this day forward will fail on the shelf fact.

You can come back and tell me im wrong when any MMO that doesnt feature PvP out of the box , lasts more than 3 months with high membership

Free Realms, jsut to name a recent one. Yes, it has dualing but no free-ranging, multi-person PvP. I don't think you could call it a flop or make the claim it has had less than high membership almost from the day its servers opened. Oh.. and yes, it is for a different 'audience', but you made a pretty broad claim.

Eq2 for another

[Borias]

Karrane1 wrote:

I wouldn't mind your ideas Borias.... with one addition. Make the docks PvP free also.. in all areas.. so ppl that are heading to the test zones can get there in one piece Like you said.. Test_Copy isnt there to just run around in.. its to test things out. I would come back to test_copy if these changes took place.

Hm, KP docks, TS docks, Nek docks, CL docks, and Ant docks are all in immunity.  Think the only other ones missing are EL, Feerrott, Everfrost, Lavastorm(except you can port over and warp to sol eye immune).

Would you need more, if the adjacent zones to new instances were immune?  Example- they are monkeying around with the crucible, so everfrost is pvp_disabled for the duration of the test.  But if they were revamping everfrost as a zone, Permafrost would *not* be, because EF is already an open zone, and disabled.

With guild halls it should be easy to warp around.  I'm sure someone can copy over some plat and make open access to bells, rings, and wizzie ports.

[Alienor]

Borias@Nagafen wrote:

Check my idea above your post.  I believe it to handle most every need that an actual tester could want, and allow pvp as well, all on the same server.

*Nod* Yes, sounds reasonable to me. What about immunity in the SS/Moors landing zones? Or if I want to test/check sth in Fens or Veksar, how do I get there in one piece ? Even easier might be to implement the "I'm PVE, don't hurt me" flag as suggested, but somehow I doubt either will happen  At least this topic is much more entertaining than the RA thread *g*

[Borias]

Well, the dropship zone is completely pvp immune(unless you kill mobs there, which breaks it), except for the itty bitty part you wizzie portal into, but you can walk 3 feet and you're gtg.

The SS part isn't, but I'd like to think that someone could just transfer a guild over/buy a hall, and make public druid rings/bells for everyone to use.

Fens isn't bad.  Take the bell to Kylong, you can make the bird in immunity, to fens, have a 8 second run to the zoneline.  Then it's a bird, a jump and a swim to Veksar.  It's extremely rare to get pvp'd on the way to there, I think I've seen it maybe 1 time.

Whats sth?

[Wilde_Night]

Gungo wrote:

You are completely wrong.

Yea you do realize the DEVS are the ones who said the Test_copy server was the TEST_PVP server. In fact it was the test pvp server because for like 2 years after pvp came out (DOF) there was always 2 test servers test and test_pvp. Then one day people asked for a copy server and test_pvp was changed to Test_copy for 1 live update (eof beta). Then it went back to test_pvp and then it went back to test_copy for over a year. There was like no PVP dev. The they got Ohlin who made a bunch of changes and they reflagged test_Copy to PVP. Then you came to the board to cry.

Actually, real PvP was not an option until the release of Kingdom of Sky.

[Alienor]

No idea where the most dangerous spots are on a pvp server... Veksar was just an example. "sth" is my abbrevation of "something". Anyway, if I feel I am more busy with reviving than doing actual business I still can test the stuff on live

[Wingrider01]

Idolitor@Nagafen wrote:

It's a test server .... 

Not the play with my buddies server ... 

Not the im upset cause my guildies are now evil server ... 

Go test PvP mechanics , or dont . it's up to you 

But it's the assumption that the server is there for you to PLAY on that is flawed.

But PvP is a game style , and i will argue that it is the future of all MMO's , so if you want to help everquest 

go test PvP mechanics and help solve bug issues , and feedback on what you like and don't like 

The quests can be tested on the other server ...with me ..the other server ...

This server is being used atm to test PvP , imagine that a test server , being used to test new PvP gear 

a new PvP token system , new PvP clickable items , and with the priest of discord lots of new possibilities to test. 

So at least pretend you want to test something that cant just as easily be done on the OTHER server .... 

Good points, some things you missed though - YOU want to test PVP mechanics, great more power to you, test to your hearts convent and file a multitude of /bug reports to assist the developers in makeing YOUR play style more to YOUR liking, now since PVE players would like to do the EXACT SAME THING for their play style, give them the ability to do so without being attacked or being able to attack those that believer in the alternate lifestyle. Resepct and coopreation goes both ways here. Have never attacked anyone on the alternate lifestyle server yet, but have been attacked multiple times by pvp orientated players while trying to test something.

You are 100 percent incorrect in your statement "This server is being used atm to test PvP , imagine that a test server , being used to test new PvP gear" The server is being used to test BOTH facets of the GU changes, not just the PVP changes, so give us the ability to test both one the dame server, not a hard thing since they have the basis for it in eq1. It is not possible to test some of the changes from the GU without a form of test copy. Great will happily go to the other server, as along as the ability to test copy there is given to the pve testers also, if not then it cannot be tested effectively and is a invalid environment and will not effectively test anything.

Again I disagree with the comment that pvp is a playstle and is the future of all onlie games, it maybe your future but if it comes down to that I will stop playing online games completely. Not everyone enjoys that alternate life style.

The more accurate version of your statement 'So at least pretend you want to test something that cant just as easily be done on the OTHER server .... "

"So at least pretend you want to test something and leave those that want to test the PVE changes alone, especially when asked politely...."

That fits better 

[Froed20]

Maroger wrote:

Fayle@Mistmoore wrote:

I was not aware that the test_copy server was originally the pvp test server. Perhaps they should enable test_copy for both servers and permanently enable the pvp funtion for the current test_copy, that way both mechanics are constantly being tested, people know exactly what server they're getting into, and two ENTIRELY different worlds of playstyles are not butting heads with each other.  This kind of stuff only detracts from the true purpose of a test server, which is to test the new mechanics of the game.  Tossing PVP and PVE together is like releasing freshwater fish into the ocean... It just doesn't work very well, and it just causes a big mess.

I don't see why they simply cannot have an immunity flag for non-PVP players the way they did in EQ1 to stop this ganking so that the PVE players can test the content.

Surely they can change the color of our names and give us an immunity flag so that we don't have to be involved with PVPers.

The reason I say they should seperate the servers entirely is because when you test something you need the conditions and rulesets to be as close to the intended outcome as possible.  PVP and PVE are different rulesets.  Some things work differently.  Moreover, there is no option to turn your pvp flag off in the real pvp servers that I'm aware of.  When the Pvpers  come in to test stuff for their server, they need to have the conditions as close to what their real conditions are in every day life, or the results can be skewed.  Call me crazy, but how can they test their stuff when the majority of the players they come across are carrying an immunity flag?  It's just like how it is for us pve'rs... we need to test stuff in our realm of knowledge that affects our rulesets.  Having two conflicting rulesets present at the same time can have unintended effects that will alter the results of your testing. 

Alienor wrote:

Fayle@Mistmoore wrote:

I was not aware that the test_copy server was originally the pvp test server.

Well, with that argument we would never had to go through the horrors of LU13 Things change. Originally the US was a colony of UK. (Almost) nobody would insist being it that way again

It's not an argument, I really was unaware of it.  I just saw the test_copy server and felt that rather than trying to level yet another toon as I've done more times than I care for on the real servers, that I'd just copy my toon over.  Honestly, to even get on test its like you have to jump through a bunch of hoops.  Unfortunately, the last one there was invisible, lit on fire, and had a group of five pvpers waiting at the other end when I logged in.  I laugh about it now because it was actually kinda funny, but they really ought to have had some kind of warning when you /testcopy add.

[KannaWhoopass]

You guys lost me at the request for a flag where you can avoid testing content. 

And preventing PvP in new areas to an expansion , is another way of NOT testing PvP changes. 

And there is a whole other server with No PvP ruleset where PvE Exclusive testing can and is being done. 

So ill stop bickering with people who are less interested in testing new mechanics , and more interested in playing with friends on a test server , and getting sneak prieviews for blogs and wiki content sites.

[Gaige]

Idolitor@Nagafen wrote:

You guys lost me at the request for a flag where you can avoid testing content. 

Why would PvErs want to test PvP things?  Not only that, why would YOU want us too, we'd be terrible at it.  We have no idea what we're looking for.

A way to disable PvP if you copied from a PvE server is the best solution, so everyone can do what they're trying to do on test.

As for "playing with friends" how is anyone from PvE going to be able to test the new raid zone with PvP enabled?

[Froed20]

Idolitor@Nagafen wrote:

You guys lost me at the request for a flag where you can avoid testing content. 

And preventing PvP in new areas to an expansion , is another way of NOT testing PvP changes. 

And there is a whole other server with No PvP ruleset where PvE Exclusive testing can and is being done. 

So ill stop bickering with people who are less interested in testing new mechanics , and more interested in playing with friends on a test server , and getting sneak prieviews for blogs and wiki content sites.

The other test server requires you to level from 1-80, though it's a little faster than normal.  Still, being that my current toon is already 80 with most of my spells and a good set of armor that can jump into the new content and actually function correctly, I'd rather use that toon then have to re-level AGAIN. As far testing the pvp mechanics go, as the above poster put it, do you REALLY want our feedback?  Because we have no clue in hell what we are doing or looking for, nor do we know much about how to defend ourselves against people who live daily in those servers.  I could jump in right now, test something, and not even know it was added in to be tested because I have no freaking clue what is already implimented, what is new, what is working as intended, and what isn't.  That's not very good feedback to recieve, and it just creates a mess for the devs who will have to sort the garbage feedback from the real feedback.

[Wingrider01]

Gage wrote:

Idolitor@Nagafen wrote:

You guys lost me at the request for a flag where you can avoid testing content. 

Why would PvErs want to test PvP things?  Not only that, why would YOU want us too, we'd be terrible at it.  We have no idea what we're looking for.

A way to disable PvP if you copied from a PvE server is the best solution, so everyone can do what they're trying to do on test.

As for "playing with friends" how is anyone from PvE going to be able to test the new raid zone with PvP enabled?

QFE - this makes the second time I have agreed with Gage over the last few years. Implement the EQ1 method of PVE/PVP on the same server

[Kiara]

We'll not have anymore of the threads addressing the Test-Copy server and its status as either PvP or PvE.

Thank you.