Buffing summoners by castrating Rogues... [Removed for Content]?

[Frank Sojourner]

So let me get this straight.  To raid difficult encounters efficiently, most raids run with 2 rogues, a Swash and a Brig.  Of the rogues the Swash is the master of debuffing the offensive capabilities of the mob with a few mit debuffs thrown in.  The Brig is the master of debuffing the defensive capabilities of the mob with a few debuffs that effect the offensive capabilities of  the mob.

Over the years, Brigands have had aspects of the class taken away as we usually had a place in groups and raids because of our ability to significantly raise the dps of the group/raid.  While our main contribution did not show up in our personal dps #'s, people knew that we increased the dps of the party.   

As for giving us more mit debuffs to make up for our lost resistance debuffs.  The question I would have is, How close are raids to the hard cap of debuffing mit now?  If you change the resistance debuff portions of Rake and Dispatch to mit debuffs, while including changing Swash resistance debuffs to mit debuffs, at what point do they become superfluous? Sure, the numbers may look impressive in the examine window but if they don't actually do anything as the mit debuff cap has been hit, what good is it?  If you simply take it away without adding anything back, why thank you for removing half of my raid desirability. 

One of the biggest problems I have with this is that it seems like a reactionary bandaid.  Because why would you add a "Noxious Toxin" to the Brigand's Shadow AA line? If this was a long term, well thought out plan.  FYI, "Noxious Toxin" is an AA that adds a noxious mit debuff to our dmg. poisons.

[Sabutai]

Geothe wrote:

First off.The whole idea of increasing one class's utility by stealing it from another is moronic.And then, having the gall of going down that road, and then making the choice of stealing that utility from a class which does ONLY that is outright moronic.  Optomized raids currently run with 8-9 bards/chanters and 2-3 rogues.  And someone thought that it would be a good idea to transfer utility from one of the lower abundance groups with narrow utility instead of the high abundance groups (chanters/bards) with extremely broad utility?Do they even think things out at all?

But, transfering utility shouldn't even be the solution in the first place... its just an act of apathy.

Creating new utility is the best thing.New debuffs.. no one can debuff double attacks which are evil in raids, that'd be a great debuff to add.a strike through like debuff for spells.. if a spell is resisted, there is an X% chance it would get another "roll" to land.a crit multiplier debuff.  ie instead of critting for 50% damage bonus, the multiplier debuff would make crits hit for 25% more.

making the summoner EoF tree pets (void beast/water pet) no concentration slot pets, which can be up with their regular pets would in and of itself add lots of utility bonus to summoner.

Just get the stupid idea of utility transfer out of your empty heads because its a flawed concept.

the debuff on the necro aa pet currently doesn't stack with any other debuffs in game.  If you have a full debuff raid, there is no reason to even use this.  The only thing currently that works on top of everything is the AE reducer, but then who needs that?

Also why is it do you think that the devs chose to announce this path?  Maybe its due to the fact that its been stated again and again that summoners are supposed to be ON PAR with rogues in terms of utility.  But currently there is nothing that mages bring to the table that will debuff the damage that they do.  So just seems logical to me that a MAGE class will debuff MAGE damage.  The fact that rogues have hoarded this debuff since launch doesn't mean it should remain that way just so you can feel needed in a raid.  Its laughable that people don't understand whatsoever what its like to be a summoner in todays raiding scene.  Get over yourself, most rogues deal tremendous damage and bring debuffs required to kill most of the raiding content.

[Sabutai]

Chath@Antonia Bayle wrote:

I really don't like this solution. Better solutions are to give summoners abilities to counteract raid effects that negate mage damage, such as counters to stuns, stifles, target-lock/wipes, anti-offensive stifles, or just more survivability. A -lot- of raid forces run two healers in mage groups now to healer stack on harder fights, and summoners could be tasked with giving mages hefty resistance to AEs also through a variety of means that'd make having a second healer unnecessary - something similar to illusionist doppelganger that'd stick around for people in the group and suck up AEs, effectively increasing their HP a ton would just be an example.

that's not utility.  There are currently healers who deal with all that stuff.  Resistences currently don't do much in the raiding scene.

[EasternKing]

Sabutai wrote:

Geothe wrote:

So apparently this is the master plan to "fix" things as announced at fanfare:

"To be specific, we [summoners] will be the class to bring to debuff a mob's magical debuffs (along with necros), while swashbucklers and brigands will be switching to only debuff a mob's physical resists"

Is that seriously the only thing you could come up with?Talk about utter laziness.

Removing class definining abilites that some classes have had since launch and just giving them to another class to add a bit of utility because you are to apathetic to actually come up with something novel is pathetic.But no, you take the only type of utility the Brigands have and give half of it to other classes.Genious, real genious *rolls eyes)

so you believe that scouts should be the only class that can debuff mobs for mages?   right...

ya cos chanters dont have a magical version dispatched already....

[Sabutai]

EasternKing wrote:

Sabutai wrote:

Geothe wrote:

So apparently this is the master plan to "fix" things as announced at fanfare:

"To be specific, we [summoners] will be the class to bring to debuff a mob's magical debuffs (along with necros), while swashbucklers and brigands will be switching to only debuff a mob's physical resists"

Is that seriously the only thing you could come up with?Talk about utter laziness.

Removing class definining abilites that some classes have had since launch and just giving them to another class to add a bit of utility because you are to apathetic to actually come up with something novel is pathetic.But no, you take the only type of utility the Brigands have and give half of it to other classes.Genious, real genious *rolls eyes)

so you believe that scouts should be the only class that can debuff mobs for mages?   right...

ya cos chanters dont have a magical version dispatched already....

ahhh, easternking the master of the anti-summoner.  Here again to post your thoughts on how to keep another class down?  yay... 

Which debuff are you referring too?  Illusionists don't have anything along those lines and I'm not all that familiar with the coercer side of it.  The illusionist melee debuff is a joke, although has already been brought up here.  Debuffing slash crush pierce does what exactly?  reduces the mobs chance to hit, seriously?  When was that actually a useful debuff?

[Coho1]

I thought summoners wanted more DPS.

[Deson]

Koho@Butcherblock wrote:

I thought summoners wanted more DPS.

We did after we saw what passed for utility on us post LU-13. Devs kept saying no. So, we asked for viable utility on par with rogues. We got this. Not at all what we were looking for. Debuffs could be nice but it doesn't have to come at the expense of others, it doesn't have to be  zero sum.

[Sabutai]

Koho@Butcherblock wrote:

I thought summoners wanted more DPS.

they would be fine with either but since anybody playing an assassin or wizard vehemently states that anybody not of those classes should never touch their parse godliness, this is the bone the devs have decided to throw.

And this isn't a nerf of a class its just a reallocation of utilty.  There is still going to be reasons to take brigands onto raids, despite all this negative backlash, they are still going to be needed to bring a melee defensive debuff aspect to raids.  This just opens up another alternative to diversify the raid force.

[Leisu]

Sabutai wrote:

EasternKing wrote:

Sabutai wrote:

Geothe wrote:

So apparently this is the master plan to "fix" things as announced at fanfare:

"To be specific, we [summoners] will be the class to bring to debuff a mob's magical debuffs (along with necros), while swashbucklers and brigands will be switching to only debuff a mob's physical resists"

Is that seriously the only thing you could come up with?Talk about utter laziness.

Removing class definining abilites that some classes have had since launch and just giving them to another class to add a bit of utility because you are to apathetic to actually come up with something novel is pathetic.But no, you take the only type of utility the Brigands have and give half of it to other classes.Genious, real genious *rolls eyes)

so you believe that scouts should be the only class that can debuff mobs for mages?   right...

ya cos chanters dont have a magical version dispatched already....

ahhh, easternking the master of the anti-summoner.  Here again to post your thoughts on how to keep another class down?  yay... 

Which debuff are you referring too?  Illusionists don't have anything along those lines and I'm not all that familiar with the coercer side of it.  The illusionist melee debuff is a joke, although has already been brought up here.  Debuffing slash crush pierce does what exactly?  reduces the mobs chance to hit, seriously?  When was that actually a useful debuff?

Oh Mr. KnowItAll,

Coercers have this AA ability call Tashiana which is EXACTLY the magical debuff version of dispatch.  You should shouldn't comment on things that you know nothing about.  You just look silly.

[Coho1]

I think a DPS boost is the best fix.  It doesn't nerf anyone and just gives a grp/raid an extra choice.  So instead of an extra wizard they could have a summoner.

[Landiin]

He clearly said he didn't know about Coercers just Illy's.. Maybe you should lean to read better Leisure.. /shrug

[bryldan]

Sabutai wrote:

Geothe wrote:

First off.The whole idea of increasing one class's utility by stealing it from another is moronic.And then, having the gall of going down that road, and then making the choice of stealing that utility from a class which does ONLY that is outright moronic.  Optomized raids currently run with 8-9 bards/chanters and 2-3 rogues.  And someone thought that it would be a good idea to transfer utility from one of the lower abundance groups with narrow utility instead of the high abundance groups (chanters/bards) with extremely broad utility?Do they even think things out at all?

But, transfering utility shouldn't even be the solution in the first place... its just an act of apathy.

Creating new utility is the best thing.New debuffs.. no one can debuff double attacks which are evil in raids, that'd be a great debuff to add.a strike through like debuff for spells.. if a spell is resisted, there is an X% chance it would get another "roll" to land.a crit multiplier debuff.  ie instead of critting for 50% damage bonus, the multiplier debuff would make crits hit for 25% more.

making the summoner EoF tree pets (void beast/water pet) no concentration slot pets, which can be up with their regular pets would in and of itself add lots of utility bonus to summoner.

Just get the stupid idea of utility transfer out of your empty heads because its a flawed concept.

the debuff on the necro aa pet currently doesn't stack with any other debuffs in game.  If you have a full debuff raid, there is no reason to even use this.  The only thing currently that works on top of everything is the AE reducer, but then who needs that?

Also why is it do you think that the devs chose to announce this path?  Maybe its due to the fact that its been stated again and again that summoners are supposed to be ON PAR with rogues in terms of utility.  But currently there is nothing that mages bring to the table that will debuff the damage that they do.  So just seems logical to me that a MAGE class will debuff MAGE damage.  The fact that rogues have hoarded this debuff since launch doesn't mean it should remain that way just so you can feel needed in a raid.  Its laughable that people don't understand whatsoever what its like to be a summoner in todays raiding scene.  Get over yourself, most rogues deal tremendous damage and bring debuffs required to kill most of the raiding content.

The whole point is that there are many more things that SoE im sure could come up with to accomplish this goal without further nerfing rouges. Just as a start i would love to see hearts/shards give more many as they are well below par for much use. Of course that wont do much and more is needed to be actually added to the two classes. Heck you could even give them one of the troubs buffs as they cannot run them all of course.RoR but better version of it? Something to counter mem wipes maybe (since we seem to have a lot of mobs who do this)? Maybe a reducer to aoe dmg buff for the group? Theres plenty of things that can be brought into the game without having to nerf classes.

[Crismorn]

So most guilds are using 4 chanters and 4 bards?  Well re-roll your summoner, brawler or warden and be one of those classes or heck dont raid and just group/solo.

[Sabutai]

Leisure@Butcherblock wrote:

Sabutai wrote:

EasternKing wrote:

Sabutai wrote:

Geothe wrote:

So apparently this is the master plan to "fix" things as announced at fanfare:

"To be specific, we [summoners] will be the class to bring to debuff a mob's magical debuffs (along with necros), while swashbucklers and brigands will be switching to only debuff a mob's physical resists"

Is that seriously the only thing you could come up with?Talk about utter laziness.

Removing class definining abilites that some classes have had since launch and just giving them to another class to add a bit of utility because you are to apathetic to actually come up with something novel is pathetic.But no, you take the only type of utility the Brigands have and give half of it to other classes.Genious, real genious *rolls eyes)

so you believe that scouts should be the only class that can debuff mobs for mages?   right...

ya cos chanters dont have a magical version dispatched already....

ahhh, easternking the master of the anti-summoner.  Here again to post your thoughts on how to keep another class down?  yay... 

Which debuff are you referring too?  Illusionists don't have anything along those lines and I'm not all that familiar with the coercer side of it.  The illusionist melee debuff is a joke, although has already been brought up here.  Debuffing slash crush pierce does what exactly?  reduces the mobs chance to hit, seriously?  When was that actually a useful debuff?

Oh Mr. KnowItAll,

Coercers have this AA ability call Tashiana which is EXACTLY the magical debuff version of dispatch.  You should shouldn't comment on things that you know nothing about.  You just look silly.

learn to read much?

[Leisu]

Toran@Oasis wrote:

He clearly said he didn't know about Coercers just Illy's.. Maybe you should lean to read better Leisure.. /shrug

So lack of knowledge is a feasible excuse to post whatever?  Sorry officer, I didn't know the speed limit was 70.  My point stands, if you don't know then you probably shouldn't post because it just makes you look silly.

[Sabutai]

bryldan wrote:

Sabutai wrote:

Geothe wrote:

First off.The whole idea of increasing one class's utility by stealing it from another is moronic.And then, having the gall of going down that road, and then making the choice of stealing that utility from a class which does ONLY that is outright moronic.  Optomized raids currently run with 8-9 bards/chanters and 2-3 rogues.  And someone thought that it would be a good idea to transfer utility from one of the lower abundance groups with narrow utility instead of the high abundance groups (chanters/bards) with extremely broad utility?Do they even think things out at all?

But, transfering utility shouldn't even be the solution in the first place... its just an act of apathy.

Creating new utility is the best thing.New debuffs.. no one can debuff double attacks which are evil in raids, that'd be a great debuff to add.a strike through like debuff for spells.. if a spell is resisted, there is an X% chance it would get another "roll" to land.a crit multiplier debuff.  ie instead of critting for 50% damage bonus, the multiplier debuff would make crits hit for 25% more.

making the summoner EoF tree pets (void beast/water pet) no concentration slot pets, which can be up with their regular pets would in and of itself add lots of utility bonus to summoner.

Just get the stupid idea of utility transfer out of your empty heads because its a flawed concept.

the debuff on the necro aa pet currently doesn't stack with any other debuffs in game.  If you have a full debuff raid, there is no reason to even use this.  The only thing currently that works on top of everything is the AE reducer, but then who needs that?

Also why is it do you think that the devs chose to announce this path?  Maybe its due to the fact that its been stated again and again that summoners are supposed to be ON PAR with rogues in terms of utility.  But currently there is nothing that mages bring to the table that will debuff the damage that they do.  So just seems logical to me that a MAGE class will debuff MAGE damage.  The fact that rogues have hoarded this debuff since launch doesn't mean it should remain that way just so you can feel needed in a raid.  Its laughable that people don't understand whatsoever what its like to be a summoner in todays raiding scene.  Get over yourself, most rogues deal tremendous damage and bring debuffs required to kill most of the raiding content.

The whole point is that there are many more things that SoE im sure could come up with to accomplish this goal without further nerfing rouges. Just as a start i would love to see hearts/shards give more many as they are well below par for much use. Of course that wont do much and more is needed to be actually added to the two classes. Heck you could even give them one of the troubs buffs as they cannot run them all of course.RoR but better version of it? Something to counter mem wipes maybe (since we seem to have a lot of mobs who do this)? Maybe a reducer to aoe dmg buff for the group? Theres plenty of things that can be brought into the game without having to nerf classes.

some good points, the heart/shard routine by people who don't play summoners is just played out.  these spells/items have been worthless for almost 2 entire expansions.  The advent of so much power proc gear has rendered these little gems beyond worthless and truly there is absolutely no reason to bring a summoner along just for those.

RoR if I'm not mistaken is a joke of a spell, along the lines of the illusionist reflect shield where it only effects professional spells which pretty much all raid mobs don't use.  Taking useless buffs from a bard to give to a summoner really isn't much of a fix.  Countering memwipes, how is this utility in the fact that you're just going to trivialize raid encounters.  Not to mention the fact that if you gave that ability up the summoner would get stuck in the worst group imaginable.  While getting a raid spot is nice, having fun playing your class doing it would be nice as well.

AE reducer, isn't that called crit mit gear?

[Geothe]

Sabutai wrote:

so you believe that scouts should be the only class that can debuff mobs for mages?   right...

Funny that you dont seem to realize that all mages already debuff mob resistances.Wiz/Conjys debuff elementalWarlock/Necro debuff noxChanters debuff arcane.

Sabutai wrote:

And this isn't a nerf of a class its just a reallocation of utilty.

Its not a nerf?How in your convoluted mind is removing half of the utility a class has not a nerf?Wow.  Just wow.

[Sabutai]

Geothe wrote:

Sabutai wrote:

so you believe that scouts should be the only class that can debuff mobs for mages?   right...

Funny that you dont seem to realize that all mages already debuff mob resistances.Wiz/Conjys debuff elementalWarlock/Necro debuff noxChanters debuff arcane.

Sabutai wrote:

And this isn't a nerf of a class its just a reallocation of utilty.

Its not a nerf?How in your convoluted mind is removing half of the utility a class has not a nerf?Wow.  Just wow.

correct me if I'm wrong but those mage classes you just listed reduce resistances, correct?  So name me a mage class that reduces the mitigation of all spells?

I don't see this as a nerf because its not going to remove the overall utility of the class.  If the idea they are taking is making dispatch half as useful but bringing in another class to compensate for it, it just increases the usefulness of another class.  It doesn't diminish the need for brigands to be in raids, they're still needed to provide the melee portion of the debuff, it just adds another class to help raid dps instead of putting every egg in 1 basket.

[Leisu]

Illine@Storms wrote:

well it will do something to enhanters as well since .. at least coercers have 2 "all magic resist" debuffs. Illus debuff martial skill (crush, slash and pierce)

With AAs we have a spell cast time debuff, coercers debuff int too.

so what are gonna be the new conju/necro debuffs to not overlap with ours??

Sabutai wrote:

learn to read much?

I'm just fine, how about you?

[Leisu]

Sabutai wrote:

correct me if I'm wrong but those mage classes you just listed reduce resistances, correct?  So name me a mage class that reduces the mitigation of spells?

Wow....just wow....

[Sabutai]

Leisure@Butcherblock wrote:

Illine@Storms wrote:

well it will do something to enhanters as well since .. at least coercers have 2 "all magic resist" debuffs. Illus debuff martial skill (crush, slash and pierce)

With AAs we have a spell cast time debuff, coercers debuff int too.

so what are gonna be the new conju/necro debuffs to not overlap with ours??

Sabutai wrote:

learn to read much?

I'm just fine, how about you?

yea I looked it up, says debuffs magical mitigation...so genius care to explain which is magic?   Oh, thats right its just arcane spells, and its an AA ability not a spell or skill, AND it has nothing to do with the proposed change....thanks for playing.

[Sabutai]

Leisure@Butcherblock wrote:

Sabutai wrote:

correct me if I'm wrong but those mage classes you just listed reduce resistances, correct?  So name me a mage class that reduces the mitigation of all spells?

Wow....just wow....

still waiting for an answer, or do you just reply with 1 liners that have no bearing on the conversation?

[Geothe]

Sabutai wrote:

yea I looked it up, says debuffs magical mitigation...so genius care to explain which is magic?   Oh, thats right its just arcane spells

ROFLMAO.You are truelly clueless man.

Why dont you come back to the thread when you actually have a clue.

[EasternKing]

Sabutai wrote:

Geothe wrote:

Sabutai wrote:

so you believe that scouts should be the only class that can debuff mobs for mages?   right...

Funny that you dont seem to realize that all mages already debuff mob resistances.Wiz/Conjys debuff elementalWarlock/Necro debuff noxChanters debuff arcane.

Sabutai wrote:

And this isn't a nerf of a class its just a reallocation of utilty.

Its not a nerf?How in your convoluted mind is removing half of the utility a class has not a nerf?Wow.  Just wow.

correct me if I'm wrong but those mage classes you just listed reduce resistances, correct?  So name me a mage class that reduces the mitigation of all spells?

I don't see this as a nerf because its not going to remove the overall utility of the class.  If the idea they are taking is making dispatch half as useful but bringing in another class to compensate for it, it just increases the usefulness of another class.  It doesn't diminish the need for brigands to be in raids, they're still needed to provide the melee portion of the debuff, it just adds another class to help raid dps instead of putting every egg in 1 basket.

so in your deluded world, we can give Sanctuary to druids, wards to druids, roa to scouts, Jcap to tanks, ToS to brawlers, hmm what would i like on my brig, lets see some aoes for starters BIG ones, id like some heals, direct and hots, id love some wards too, from bards id like accuracy buffs, db attack buffs, crit mod buffs,you know just spread the buffs and stuff about , it is in no way shape or form going to detract from the class's losing them abilitys.

see what i did there? your idea is dumb, period, the dev who thought of this is also ...well you can guess what i think about them.

[Landiin]

Can I have a complete heal ?

[Sabutai]

Geothe wrote:

Sabutai wrote:

yea I looked it up, says debuffs magical mitigation...so genius care to explain which is magic?   Oh, thats right its just arcane spells

ROFLMAO.You are truelly clueless man.

Why dont you come back to the thread when you actually have a clue.

I'm sorry which part of what I wrote is untrue?  magical debuffs include divine and mental, or do the cure buttons on your screen cause you too much thought process?

[Geothe]

Time to inform the clueless then.Magical damage refers to all spell damage... cause spells are magic!

Arcane refers to damage types of magic, mental, divine.Noxious refers to damage types poison and diseaseElemental refers to damage types cold and heat.So when a spell description says "decreases magical resistances by 3k"it reduces all spell mit by 3k.

[Tehom]

Sabutai wrote:

Chath@Antonia Bayle wrote:

I really don't like this solution. Better solutions are to give summoners abilities to counteract raid effects that negate mage damage, such as counters to stuns, stifles, target-lock/wipes, anti-offensive stifles, or just more survivability. A -lot- of raid forces run two healers in mage groups now to healer stack on harder fights, and summoners could be tasked with giving mages hefty resistance to AEs also through a variety of means that'd make having a second healer unnecessary - something similar to illusionist doppelganger that'd stick around for people in the group and suck up AEs, effectively increasing their HP a ton would just be an example.

that's not utility.  There are currently healers who deal with all that stuff.  Resistences currently don't do much in the raiding scene.

I'm sorry, I should have clarified - I didn't mean resistance as literally your X resist to Y damage type. I meant just some mechanic so mages don't flatline to any physical AE unless they're in groups with a cleric and shaman stacked together. I think if you could have a summoner instead of a second healer, they'd be a -lot- more desired as a raid slot, because any raid wants to maximize their dps - they only have second healers because of the strong encouragement to keep mages from being one-shotted. As to the other abilities I listed, there's actually a lot of them that don't have specific counters to them. Like things that do target-locks/wipes that can't be cured on Uktap or other mobs don't have an existing ability to fix that, and there's nothing that prevents disruption from mob reactive effects when nuking them. Anything that fills those roles would give summoners a valid role.

My point is more that if people could use summoners instead of a second healer who they stack in specifically for group survivability, they'd do it in a heartbeat for the increased dps.

[Deson]

Chath@Antonia Bayle wrote:

Sabutai wrote:

Chath@Antonia Bayle wrote:

I really don't like this solution. Better solutions are to give summoners abilities to counteract raid effects that negate mage damage, such as counters to stuns, stifles, target-lock/wipes, anti-offensive stifles, or just more survivability. A -lot- of raid forces run two healers in mage groups now to healer stack on harder fights, and summoners could be tasked with giving mages hefty resistance to AEs also through a variety of means that'd make having a second healer unnecessary - something similar to illusionist doppelganger that'd stick around for people in the group and suck up AEs, effectively increasing their HP a ton would just be an example.

that's not utility.  There are currently healers who deal with all that stuff.  Resistences currently don't do much in the raiding scene.

I'm sorry, I should have clarified - I didn't mean resistance as literally your X resist to Y damage type. I meant just some mechanic so mages don't flatline to any physical AE unless they're in groups with a cleric and shaman stacked together. I think if you could have a summoner instead of a second healer, they'd be a -lot- more desired as a raid slot, because any raid wants to maximize their dps - they only have second healers because of the strong encouragement to keep mages from being one-shotted. As to the other abilities I listed, there's actually a lot of them that don't have specific counters to them. Like things that do target-locks/wipes that can't be cured on Uktap or other mobs don't have an existing ability to fix that, and there's nothing that prevents disruption from mob reactive effects when nuking them. Anything that fills those roles would give summoners a valid role.

My point is more that if people could use summoners instead of a second healer who they stack in specifically for group survivability, they'd do it in a heartbeat for the increased dps.

For necros at least, there's plenty of franchise lore and background that supports it being a psuedo healer. Vanguard took the EQ1 concept so far that it made a whole class so surely there's something that can be drawn from there. It's pretty clear from the RA and renaming that EQ2 devs have no problem grabbing concepts from other games so why not its own franchise and Vanguard?

[Geothe]

Sabutai wrote:

correct me if I'm wrong but those mage classes you just listed reduce resistances, correct?  So name me a mage class that reduces the mitigation of all spells?

Almost missed this little gem.You claim that only scouts debuff mobs for mages.I reply showing your utter ignorance (again) by informing you that mages do infact debuff their damage types.And now are you actually under the delusional thought that these mage debuffs dont reduce the mitigation against their damage types?