Upcoming Feature for EQII: Research Assistants!

[Noaani]

Kigneer wrote:

Noaani wrote:

Silken@Butcherblock wrote:

I'd like to see equal value given to those who choose to solo or who choose to craft. 

If your able to craft to get masters without needing to adventure, I want to be able to adventure to get crafter epics and recipes from the crafting instances.

Fairs fair and all, right?

If that would get more level 80 crafters to do their Master's quest -- PERFECT!

Who said anything about crafters?

I want to do it as a level 1 artisan, level 52 adventurer. Is my subscription fee not good enough for SoE any more?

[Kigneer]

Noaani wrote:

Who said anything about crafters?

I want to do it as a level 1 artisan, level 52 adventurer. Is my subscription fee not good enough for SoE any more?

Can't craft unless you're a crafter. No different than you can't throw spells if you're 100% melee.

I want to finish HQs as a level 80 Paladin, level 80 crafter. Is my subscription fee not good enough for SoE any more, too?

[Noaani]

Kigneer wrote:

Can't craft unless you're a crafter. No different than you can't throw spells if you're 100% melee.

You mean just like you can't get master spells if your an adventurer?

[Katanalla]

I'm not really going to search over 100 pages to see if its been mentioned, but if Gfay, Neriak and Gorowyn are getting ones, which low levels still learning the game, or even people's alts, are able to start research on their spells/combat arts... Why not isle of refuge for Qeynos and Freeport? can put one on each island, and give those the chat option to also explain the research stuff to the new people.

[Valanthe]

Katanallama@Mistmoore wrote:

I'm not really going to search over 100 pages to see if its been mentioned, but if Gfay, Neriak and Gorowyn are getting ones, which low levels still learning the game, or even people's alts, are able to start research on their spells/combat arts... Why not isle of refuge for Qeynos and Freeport? can put one on each island, and give those the chat option to also explain the research stuff to the new people.

That would be pointless because you have to be level 20 to take advantage of the feature.

[Davngr1]

Tigerlord001 wrote:

The endless crying never ceases. Congrats to the devs for sticking to their guns on this and going ahead despite the whiny minority.

yes well it is the minority that understand what game balance and risk vs. reward mean.  

[Gnova]

kukubird wrote:

When SWG lost like 90% of their players in a week after the NGE changes, were the devs this stubborn before those changes?

I know everyone was pleading for them to not change the game but they decided they knew best.  Well we all know what that made SWG into.

SOE even stated a few times it was a big mistake after the fact, so why continue with the same policies?

Invoking the token NGE arguement is completey ridiculous.  There is no fundamental change to the game mechanic happening.  The change to procs is more gamechanging than this convenience feature.

I really can't understand why people are up in arms about one spell per account per month.

In the next expansion if the level cap is increased to 90 it would take 2 full years for one character to upgrade their T9 spells to master using the RAs.  About the same timeframe that a new level cap will happen again.  A large percentage of the playerbase have multiple level cap players so they will have to choose upgrades between those characters.

[Gnova]

Davngr1 wrote:

Tigerlord001 wrote:

The endless crying never ceases. Congrats to the devs for sticking to their guns on this and going ahead despite the whiny minority.

yes well it is the minority that understand what game balance and risk vs. reward mean.  

Master aquisition is more a balance between risk vs reward vs luck.

The current system just makes it so that if you have a way to generate plat you can be mastered.  You can harvest rares till your brain bleeds from boredom or mass produce alchemy cure pots.  Where is the risk in that?

If you want to go to a risk vs reward system then change the game mechanic so that T9 masters are aquired by handing in some sort of rune or token that drop off named mobs like the current ones drop masters.  Make them no drop and where you have to be in the zone when the mob dies to be able to loot it.  Have one set of runes for 81-84 spells drop from the easier zones, 85-88 the next tier, and 89-90 the next tier.  The higher tier names would always have a chance of dropping lower tier runes.

After the instance, take your earned rune/token to a broker and choose the spell you want.  That is a true risk vs reward spell system.

[Davngr1]

Gnova wrote:

kukubird wrote:

When SWG lost like 90% of their players in a week after the NGE changes, were the devs this stubborn before those changes?

I know everyone was pleading for them to not change the game but they decided they knew best.  Well we all know what that made SWG into.

SOE even stated a few times it was a big mistake after the fact, so why continue with the same policies?

Invoking the token NGE arguement is completey ridiculous.  There is no fundamental change to the game mechanic happening.  The change to procs is more gamechanging than this convenience feature.

I really can't understand why people are up in arms about one spell per account per month.

In the next expansion if the level cap is increased to 90 it would take 2 full years for one character to upgrade their T9 spells to master using the RAs.  About the same timeframe that a new level cap will happen again.  A large percentage of the playerbase have multiple level cap players so they will have to choose upgrades between those characters.

   i still can't understand why people are so dense and can't understand it's not fully masterd that matters it's KEY masters taht matter.    it's every class having that GOOd master it's people loosing one of the few ways THAT all players advance their class.    how can you not understand that?    you don't think i want my defilers group ward?   well yes i do but also know that the group ward wont be special anymore, it won't be above and beyond what you need  my defiler won't better because i got that group ward, my defiler will have what all defilers have.. if that's the case just remove master period.  what's the point?

[Deson]

Kigneer wrote:

Noaani wrote:

Who said anything about crafters?

I want to do it as a level 1 artisan, level 52 adventurer. Is my subscription fee not good enough for SoE any more?

Can't craft unless you're a crafter. No different than you can't throw spells if you're 100% melee.

I want to finish HQs as a level 80 Paladin, level 80 crafter. Is my subscription fee not good enough for SoE any more, too?

Just so we're clear, you know what Noaani has been and is saying right? Your replies don't make sense in context of his views unless you are sarcastically playing to his point.

[Necrotherian]

Gnova wrote:

Davngr1 wrote:

yes well it is the minority that understand what game balance and risk vs. reward mean.  

Master aquisition is more a balance between risk vs reward vs luck.

QFE. 

I have been on numerous raids, to include clearing VP, and several  of the TSO raid zones.  In the time since RoK was released, I have spent probably 75-100p on repairs alone, I have faced 200+ named epic mobs (granted not 200 unique named epic mobs, but close), yet in that same time frame, I have been present for exactly 1 T8 Necro Master drop.  And you know what the kicker is? It was one I had already paid 45p for on the broker, so, because there were other necromancers within the raid that didn't already have the spell, I wasn't even allowed to roll on it.

I've faced the risk, Davngr1, now where is the reward?

*Saunters off mumbling something to the effect of, "Risk vs. reward, my left toenail...."*

[SilkenKidden]

Deson wrote:

Kigneer wrote:

Noaani wrote:

Who said anything about crafters?

I want to do it as a level 1 artisan, level 52 adventurer. Is my subscription fee not good enough for SoE any more?

Can't craft unless you're a crafter. No different than you can't throw spells if you're 100% melee.

I want to finish HQs as a level 80 Paladin, level 80 crafter. Is my subscription fee not good enough for SoE any more, too?

Just so we're clear, you know what Noaani has been and is saying right? Your replies don't make sense in context of his views unless you are sarcastically playing to his point.

Not clear at all.  Perhaps Noaani was being sarcastic when she said she wanted to do crafting quests as a level 1 artisan.  Kigneer's response seemed sincere. 

[Necrotherian]

Davngr1 wrote:

   i still can't understand why people are so dense and can't understand it's not fully masterd that matters it's KEY masters taht matter.    it's every class having that GOOd master it's people loosing one of the few ways THAT all players advance their class.    how can you not understand that?    you don't think i want my defilers group ward?   well yes i do but also know that the group ward wont be special anymore, it won't be above and beyond what you need  my defiler won't better because i got that group ward, my defiler will have what all defilers have.. if that's the case just remove master period.  what's the point?

I'm trying to read this with my sarcasm filter off, but for some reason my brain keeps translating this post into the following:

"But Mommy said that I was special!"

Sorry, Davey, I hate to be the one to break it to you, but if you have that spell, it isn't because you are special, it is because you got lucky.

If it bothers you so much, you have a few options.

You can:

1)  Vote with your (or your parent's depending on who is paying for the account) wallet.  If you can't stand to not consider yourself special, the exit door is over there ------->

2)  Stay in the game, and annoy everybody with pointless whining.

3)  Stay in the game, and find another way to be special, without annoying everybody with pointless whining.

Enough of picking on davngr1. (Not that I am, but Dav may interpret my comments as such.)

The rest of this post goes out to the gougers and farmers (not the ones with straw hats and overalls).

You made this "bed", now lie in it, or vacate the room so somebody else can stay here.

[Davngr1]

Necrotherian@Najena wrote:

Davngr1 wrote:

   i still can't understand why people are so dense and can't understand it's not fully masterd that matters it's KEY masters taht matter.    it's every class having that GOOd master it's people loosing one of the few ways THAT all players advance their class.    how can you not understand that?    you don't think i want my defilers group ward?   well yes i do but also know that the group ward wont be special anymore, it won't be above and beyond what you need  my defiler won't better because i got that group ward, my defiler will have what all defilers have.. if that's the case just remove master period.  what's the point?

I'm trying to read this with my sarcasm filter off, but for some reason my brain keeps translating this post into the following:

"But Mommy said that I was special!"

Sorry, Davey, I hate to be the one to break it to you, but if you have that spell, it isn't because you are special, it is because you got lucky.

If it bothers you so much, you have a few options.

You can:

1)  Vote with your (or your parent's depending on who is paying for the account) wallet.  If you can't stand to not consider yourself special, the exit door is over there ------->

2)  Stay in the game, and annoy everybody with pointless whining.

3)  Stay in the game, and find another way to be special, without annoying everybody with pointless whining.

Enough of picking on davngr1. (Not that I am, but Dav may interpret my comments as such.)

The rest of this post goes out to the gougers and farmers (not the ones with straw hats and overalls).

You made this "bed", now lie in it, or vacate the room so somebody else can stay here.

 meh..   see  =(  

 you interpreted my *dumming* down my point so dense people could understand, as if i really where that slow.

   well i guess even when i explain my point in *3rd grade* it still falls on deaf ears..  clearly you're blinded by the thaugt of having your master spell and this makes it impossible to understand that it will not be a master spell anymore.  i will  be a spell. everyone will be expected to have it and content will eventually be balanced with those masters in mind. 

  it's not the fact that i purchased many masters that upsets me about them being given away it's the fact that looting or bartering for that great master won't mean nothing anymore. 

  i'm really sorry you're too self absorbed in your childish self-seeking ways to understand what the game is loosing.

      I'm sure the next bright idea you will simply love is when devs decided to give away raid gear, coin,quest updates, skys the limit!  just imagine logging in, logging out, logging in 1 month later *rinse & repeat* and having a well geard toon with masters!  magic!  move over hello kitty island!  this game will be cralling with todlers.. or at least people with the intellengence of them  :

[Dreyco]

Gnova wrote:

Davngr1 wrote:

Tigerlord001 wrote:

The endless crying never ceases. Congrats to the devs for sticking to their guns on this and going ahead despite the whiny minority.

yes well it is the minority that understand what game balance and risk vs. reward mean.  

Master aquisition is more a balance between risk vs reward vs luck.

The current system just makes it so that if you have a way to generate plat you can be mastered.  You can harvest rares till your brain bleeds from boredom or mass produce alchemy cure pots.  Where is the risk in that?

If you want to go to a risk vs reward system then change the game mechanic so that T9 masters are aquired by handing in some sort of rune or token that drop off named mobs like the current ones drop masters.  Make them no drop and where you have to be in the zone when the mob dies to be able to loot it.  Have one set of runes for 81-84 spells drop from the easier zones, 85-88 the next tier, and 89-90 the next tier.  The higher tier names would always have a chance of dropping lower tier runes.

After the instance, take your earned rune/token to a broker and choose the spell you want.  That is a true risk vs reward spell system.

That's actually a really cool idea.  Or better yet, make them available for purchase off the void shard merchants (Or similar).

[Deson]

Silken@Butcherblock wrote:

Deson wrote:

Kigneer wrote:

Noaani wrote:

Who said anything about crafters?

I want to do it as a level 1 artisan, level 52 adventurer. Is my subscription fee not good enough for SoE any more?

Can't craft unless you're a crafter. No different than you can't throw spells if you're 100% melee.

I want to finish HQs as a level 80 Paladin, level 80 crafter. Is my subscription fee not good enough for SoE any more, too?

Just so we're clear, you know what Noaani has been and is saying right? Your replies don't make sense in context of his views unless you are sarcastically playing to his point.

Not clear at all.  Perhaps Noaani was being sarcastic when she said she wanted to do crafting quests as a level 1 artisan.  Kigneer's response seemed sincere. 

Noanni was being sarcastic that's why I had to ask.

[Davngr1]

Dreyco wrote:

Gnova wrote:

Davngr1 wrote:

Tigerlord001 wrote:

The endless crying never ceases. Congrats to the devs for sticking to their guns on this and going ahead despite the whiny minority.

yes well it is the minority that understand what game balance and risk vs. reward mean.  

Master aquisition is more a balance between risk vs reward vs luck.

The current system just makes it so that if you have a way to generate plat you can be mastered.  You can harvest rares till your brain bleeds from boredom or mass produce alchemy cure pots.  Where is the risk in that?

If you want to go to a risk vs reward system then change the game mechanic so that T9 masters are aquired by handing in some sort of rune or token that drop off named mobs like the current ones drop masters.  Make them no drop and where you have to be in the zone when the mob dies to be able to loot it.  Have one set of runes for 81-84 spells drop from the easier zones, 85-88 the next tier, and 89-90 the next tier.  The higher tier names would always have a chance of dropping lower tier runes.

After the instance, take your earned rune/token to a broker and choose the spell you want.  That is a true risk vs reward spell system.

That's actually a really cool idea.  Or better yet, make them available for purchase off the void shard merchants (Or similar).

it's not really that great of an idea since it will still lead to all classes having all their key masters and thus defeats the purpose of having those heals/spells/ca's be masters in the first place.  right now you don't need masters to play they but they are avalailabe to those that get lucky or choose to barter for them.    that's how it should stay for current tier masters period.

  i guess they can add a master exchange but it can't be something that allows you to choose the master you want it's needs to be random and limited to once a month per account. 

   RA's are needed but not to steal spell proggression but instead to fix broken spell proggression that some classes have been forced to deal with.

[Noaani]

Gnova wrote:

Master aquisition is more a balance between risk vs reward vs luck.

I would say its more a function of time spent and luck.

I have absolutly no issues with removing the luck portion of that totally from the game when it comes to masters, but removing both the luck portion and the time spent portion = w.t.f?

[Noaani]

Deson wrote:

Silken@Butcherblock wrote:

Deson wrote:

Kigneer wrote:

Noaani wrote:

Who said anything about crafters?

I want to do it as a level 1 artisan, level 52 adventurer. Is my subscription fee not good enough for SoE any more?

Can't craft unless you're a crafter. No different than you can't throw spells if you're 100% melee.

I want to finish HQs as a level 80 Paladin, level 80 crafter. Is my subscription fee not good enough for SoE any more, too?

Just so we're clear, you know what Noaani has been and is saying right? Your replies don't make sense in context of his views unless you are sarcastically playing to his point.

Not clear at all.  Perhaps Noaani was being sarcastic when she said she wanted to do crafting quests as a level 1 artisan.  Kigneer's response seemed sincere. 

Noanni was being sarcastic that's why I had to ask.

/sigh

Sarcasm that goes unnoticed = fail...

though in my defense, I think Kigneer just wasn't reading the posts that lead up to that point...

[kukubird]

So people for the RA-

You will not mind when all key masters are had by every class and evvery player for zero effort correct?

My question to you becomes, why have a master tier when everyone has the masters or gets them for just having an account?

If a game was to come out and they had all these tiers and progression, but had an npc that handed out the end game tiers for just having an active account, would that be fine?

I know some will argue, but it just doesn't make sense.  I am going to try and keep posts to one idea per post as people will take a post with 30 valid points against the RA and pick on one point, trash it,  and say see! the RA is a great idea!

[Wingrider01]

Noaani wrote:

Gnova wrote:

Master aquisition is more a balance between risk vs reward vs luck.

I would say its more a function of time spent and luck.

I have absolutly no issues with removing the luck portion of that totally from the game when it comes to masters, but removing both the luck portion and the time spent portion = w.t.f?

How is the time spent portion removed - 28-30 days for the spell, seems like a "time spent" senario to me. You claim you have no problem with remove the luck part, good they did, and they did NOT remove the time spent, in factr it really appears that it is longer in most cases.

By the way, what Confucious saying are you butchering(least it looks like it is supposed to be a Confuscious says modification), can't find any reference to it in either the Analects of Confucious or The Golden rule.

[Kigneer]

Noaani wrote:

/sigh

Sarcasm that goes unnoticed = fail...

though in my defense, I think Kigneer just wasn't reading the posts that lead up to that point...

You do know sarcasm doesn't play well online, right? Half the problem communicating with you is due to it.

Secondly, what I stated is a common theme of mine -- like getting folks to group to do quests to complete them (especially HQs with x2 and x4 raid endings), not just nitpick details to death and whine about any changes. Progress will come sooner than later, kicking or screaming, it will come.

And off this forum, the RA is a big hit, especially for those with masters that are rare or priced beyond reach (not everyone has a main with 5000 plat).

[Kigneer]

Gnova wrote:

There is no fundamental change to the game mechanic happening.  The change to procs is more gamechanging than this convenience feature.

Amen!

Proc changes are worse than someone getting one master a month by ANY stretch of the imagination. Folks won't miss a master a month loss in sales (those spells sit in the crate for months as it is, and impulse buyers will always be around -- you know the ones who'll pay 4+pp per loam????), as much as that little extra that keeps a raid/group from wiping -- daily.

RA is probably one of the few good features the devs came out with that the majority will be happy about. Make them no-trade, and the balance will be struck.

[Noaani]

Wingrider01 wrote:

How is the time spent portion removed - 28-30 days for the spell, seems like a "time spent" senario to me.

If it were the player spending time, sure... thing is, its not.

Players do not use up any of their time in order to get the RA, past what it takes to target the RA itself and press "H". Waiting, even if its for 30 days, is not time spent.

[Noaani]

Kigneer wrote:

Secondly, what I stated is a common theme of mine

Does it have its own theme music?

[Shareana]

Let's keep this thread on topic please....

To debate an issue is a wonderful thing....  To argue and insult....  not so much a wonderful thing...  lol 

Happy posting!

[Lodrelhai]

Wingrider01 wrote:

Noaani wrote:

Gnova wrote:

Master aquisition is more a balance between risk vs reward vs luck.

I would say its more a function of time spent and luck.

I have absolutly no issues with removing the luck portion of that totally from the game when it comes to masters, but removing both the luck portion and the time spent portion = w.t.f?

How is the time spent portion removed - 28-30 days for the spell, seems like a "time spent" senario to me. You claim you have no problem with remove the luck part, good they did, and they did NOT remove the time spent, in factr it really appears that it is longer in most cases.

By the way, what Confucious saying are you butchering(least it looks like it is supposed to be a Confuscious says modification), can't find any reference to it in either the Analects of Confucious or The Golden rule.

I believe Nooani means time spent working towards the goal.  The RA is not "time spent" because you don't have to choose between getting the RA upgrades or accomplishing some other goal - the only "time spent" is the time it takes to hail the NPC twice.  Currently you choose between farming for that master you want, or crafting, or writ-grinding, or questing, or running dungeons where masters are less likely but there's a really awesome gear piece you want, etc.  You have to prioritize.  Then luck factors in when either the RNG blesses you with that master while not actively seeking it, or (more commonly) refuses to give you what you're looking for despite weeks or even months of grinding.

Remove that luck factor, and Masters become effort=reward.  Remove the effort, and Masters become standard fare - which also tends to makes them minimum requirements.

[Davngr1]

Lodrelhai wrote:

Wingrider01 wrote:

Noaani wrote:

Gnova wrote:

Master aquisition is more a balance between risk vs reward vs luck.

I would say its more a function of time spent and luck.

I have absolutly no issues with removing the luck portion of that totally from the game when it comes to masters, but removing both the luck portion and the time spent portion = w.t.f?

How is the time spent portion removed - 28-30 days for the spell, seems like a "time spent" senario to me. You claim you have no problem with remove the luck part, good they did, and they did NOT remove the time spent, in factr it really appears that it is longer in most cases.

By the way, what Confucious saying are you butchering(least it looks like it is supposed to be a Confuscious says modification), can't find any reference to it in either the Analects of Confucious or The Golden rule.

I believe Nooani means time spent working towards the goal.  The RA is not "time spent" because you don't have to choose between getting the RA upgrades or accomplishing some other goal - the only "time spent" is the time it takes to hail the NPC twice.  Currently you choose between farming for that master you want, or crafting, or writ-grinding, or questing, or running dungeons where masters are less likely but there's a really awesome gear piece you want, etc.  You have to prioritize.  Then luck factors in when either the RNG blesses you with that master while not actively seeking it, or (more commonly) refuses to give you what you're looking for despite weeks or even months of grinding.

Remove that luck factor, and Masters become effort=reward.  Remove the effort, and Masters become standard fare - which also tends to makes them minimum requirements.

QFE     

[Wingrider01]

Noaani wrote:

Wingrider01 wrote:

How is the time spent portion removed - 28-30 days for the spell, seems like a "time spent" senario to me.

If it were the player spending time, sure... thing is, its not.

Players do not use up any of their time in order to get the RA, past what it takes to target the RA itself and press "H". Waiting, even if its for 30 days, is not time spent.

Interesting theory there. as a player I am still spending time inthe game, just not having to scrap and suffer through raids hoping to get that one luck drop of a master I can actually use, or trying to collect enough PP to pay those that farm the masters for fun and profit. Guess it is just a differnet throery on the definition of time in life.

[Gaige]

Wingrider01 wrote:

Guess you have a superior definition of time, does einstien know this?

If you get sentenced to 30 days in jail but you actually only have to go to the jail and say hi to the admitting officer and then you can leave and spend the 30 days of your sentence elsewhere doing whatever you want only to return to the jail at the end of the 30 days to sign out with the admitting officer, did you spend 30 days in jail?

You can hail the RA and spend 30 days logged out of EQ2 watching That 70's Show reruns and return when the time is up and get your master.  You aren't spending that time towards the master at all.  You're doing things you would've done anyway and gaining a master.