Now with Weapon DR calculation!: Critical Damage and You.. A guide to critical damage. - Page 2

Skivley101 · 04-17-2007, 01:48 PM

LOL... I was just gona post that info about the dot

__________________________________________________ ________________________________

All Priests have the majority of their heals and spells as 1:1 (DOTs are 1:1) or 4:5 ratio. Thus, they will get almost a flat ~0.30% boost per crit.

__________________________________________________ ________________________________

maybe i noticed it becuz im a priest.....

But on the question of my thread on the weapon dmg mod .....you seemed to miss...my chart was showing about 1.4Xlisted dmg with 444 str ....but then about 2 weeks later i get a 1.83 with 444 str.

But then i think i figured it out ....maybe i never did my first testing with the Black scale maul.

Thanx for this informative thread .... even though its taken me a little time to digest it SMILEY

Elephanton · 04-17-2007, 05:08 PM

Leanan@Venekor wrote:

ElephantonRU wrote:
I'd like to question the statement in the very first post of this thread.
I don't believe the above-quoted is true, and here's why.
My SK has an AOE DOT *spell* with fixed damage, and it always crits for fixed critical damage as well (x 1.3 of original damage), meaning that for spells, critical damage is calculated this way: STRAIGHT DAMAGE * 1.3 RULE, and not what OP states above. Othewise, if the above was true, the damage would vary for every crit.
If you read further in, I do actually state that 1:1 ratio spells, ie: fixed damage, obviously are a straight 1.3x... Same with 4:5 ratio. Anything 3.75:5 ratio and above, will always get a flat 30% bonus, because the lowest number it can hit for is still more then the max.
I can see how my statement could be misinterpreted though. Would you say that the follow up text covers that sufficiently or do you want me to actually change the top statements?

I see, sorry. Most people would only read a summary in bold text, without going into further details. If you mofidy a summary a bit, this would definitely help. Thank you.

bambinu · 05-07-2007, 08:12 PM

Sorry to bother you all. I have read all this post and have been very captivated by the depth of the maths and analysis involved. I think I have got the significance of all the major points except to these following points that I am not sure.

Assuming a linear spread of hits, then 65% of hits will be 2.3 or below. (1.3/2 = 0.65) Thus we have that 65% of crits will do 3 damage, while the other 35% will do 3 to 3.9, with an average of 3.45 ((3+3.9)/2 = 3.45). Thus the average crit will be = 65% * 3 + 35% * 3.45 = 3.1575 ~= 3.16.

From where is the 65% and the other data in the above quote derived?

I was looking at 2 great weapons, both with 4 delay. Grinning Dirk of Horror 24-215 base (avg base 119.5) and Bisected Saber 65-196 base (avg base 130.5).

CrazyPaladin2 was looking for these two weapons. My question is how do u work out the average base dmg as I cannot find it and when I tried to work the solution backwards I got some pretty uneven answers. Thanks for your assistance.

Rokjin · 05-07-2007, 09:07 PM

bambinu wrote:

Assuming a linear spread of hits, then 65% of hits will be 2.3 or below. (1.3/2 = 0.65) Thus we have that 65% of crits will do 3 damage, while the other 35% will do 3 to 3.9, with an average of 3.45 ((3+3.9)/2 = 3.45). Thus the average crit will be = 65% * 3 + 35% * 3.45 = 3.1575 ~= 3.16.
From where is the 65% and the other data in the above quote derived?

The weapon that I am considering there has a damage of 1-3.. Any critical hit that would be less than 3 after being multiplied by 1.3 is brought up to 3. So to figure out at which point a hit is brought up, I take 3 / 1.3 = 2.3. So any hit below 2.3 is adjusted up to 3, right?

Okay, so now we have to figure out what percentage of the hits from 1-3 will be below 2.3. To figure out the percentage, we have to convert that to a 0-1 range. Subtracting 1 from both sides, we get 0-2 and any hit below 1.3 will be adjusted up. So to get 0-1, we have to divide both sides by 2.. This gives us a 0-1 damage range, and 1.3 / 2 = 0.65. So.. 65% of the time the weapon will hit at or below 2.3. Thus 65% of crits will do 3 damage. Since 65% of crits do 3 damage, the other 35% of hits (2.3 - 3 damage) which converts to 3-3.9 crits.

Taking the average of those two numbers.. the average of 3 is ofcourse 3.. and the average of 3-3.9 is (3+3.9) / 2 which gives 3.45.

So, 65% of the time it will hit for 3, the other 35% for 3.45.. which works out to ~3.16 on average.

bambinu wrote:

I was looking at 2 great weapons, both with 4 delay. Grinning Dirk of Horror 24-215 base (avg base 119.5) and Bisected Saber 65-196 base (avg base 130.5).
CrazyPaladin2 was looking for these two weapons. My question is how do u work out the average base dmg as I cannot find it and when I tried to work the solution backwards I got some pretty uneven answers. Thanks for your assistance.

The avg base of 119.5 and 130.5 quoted? That's easy.. like any other average.. add the min to the max, divide by 2.. So for GDoH, (24 + 215) / 2 = 119.5. Same for Bisected Saber.

bambinu · 05-08-2007, 04:23 AM

Thanks for the detailed answer. I seem to have got all the maths involved now.

Grimwell · 07-06-2007, 08:55 PM

At the authors request, I'm removing the sticky from this thread as it's out of date.

Zygwen · 07-06-2007, 10:25 PM

Grimwell wrote:

At the authors request, I'm removing the sticky from this thread as it's out of date.

Um, as far as I know, the formulas he posted are still valid. I have not seen any post by devs stating that the combat system is going through another overhaul that would change these formulas. If someone knows for sure that this information is out of date could you kindly point me to where it was stated. Thanks

Dimgl · 07-09-2007, 01:10 AM

Zygwen wrote:

Grimwell wrote:
At the authors request, I'm removing the sticky from this thread as it's out of date.
Um, as far as I know, the formulas he posted are still valid. I have not seen any post by devs stating that the combat system is going through another overhaul that would change these formulas. If someone knows for sure that this information is out of date could you kindly point me to where it was stated. Thanks

It's not out of date actually. I'm not the author, but speaking on his behalf (I'm his GM and RL friend.) He can't speak on the boards atm because his account has already went out of service. Grimwell may have misunderstood- We wanted all of our guides unstickied because we didn't want them to age to the point where they contained out of date information. As of right now it may be up to date, but with the author(s) taking extended game breaks, you never know when the information become a pile of misinformation which lead others to bad decisions. That is why we had all of our guides unstickied.

Saurine · 08-06-2007, 02:29 PM

I am all messed up on how Crist realy work. Maybe information overload, but maybe one of you brainiacks can figure it out and help me with it. Bow (wind shaped bow) { Unbuffed } Base Damage: 217 - 652 Actual Damage: 625 - 1,874 Actual Delay 4.1 Proc Percent:21.0% Procs Per Minute: 1.7 { Buffed } Base Damage: 373 - 1,119 Actual Damage: 1,073 - 3,218 Actual Delay 3.1 Proc Percent:21.0% Procs Per Minute: 1.7 My different ranged crits. Unbuffed: 31% Focus Aim: 76% Trueshot: 41% Focus Aim+Trueshot: 86% With that info what would my crits be like according to the above mentioned post. Thnx, Saurine

jarlaxle8 · 08-07-2007, 10:55 AM

Saurine wrote:

I am all messed up on how Crist realy work. Maybe information overload, but maybe one of you brainiacks can figure it out and help me with it. Bow (wind shaped bow) { Unbuffed } Base Damage: 217 - 652 Actual Damage: 625 - 1,874 Actual Delay 4.1 Proc Percent:21.0% Procs Per Minute: 1.7 { Buffed } Base Damage: 373 - 1,119 Actual Damage: 1,073 - 3,218 Actual Delay 3.1 Proc Percent:21.0% Procs Per Minute: 1.7 My different ranged crits. Unbuffed: 31% Focus Aim: 76% Trueshot: 41% Focus Aim+Trueshot: 86% With that info what would my crits be like according to the above mentioned post. Thnx, Saurine

Yor Wind Shaped Bow has a ratio between High-Damage and Low-Damage of 3:1. That's the same ratio as the OP gave in his example, so the damage rating gain would be 58% for 100% crits. For you different crit chances you would get:

Unbuffed: 31% x 58% = 18.0 % DR gain Focus Aim: 76% x 58% = 44.1 % DR gain Trueshot: 41% x 58% = 23.8 % DR gain Focus+True: 86% x 58% = 49.9 %DR gain

The DR is calculated like this (if you didn't know): (High-Damage+Low-Damage)/Delay.

If you want to know how much the damage is of 1 crit hit, it's between High-Damage+1 and High-Damage x 1.3.

The values you gave for unbuffed and buffed are a bit strange btw. Unhasted delay on Wind Shaped would be 7 seconds.

Saurine · 08-07-2007, 04:18 PM

All that was from doing /weapon stat. First one is with no buffs on at all. The second one is after I buffed for DPS mode I.E. your constant effect buffs.

Saurine Lonewolf

Krontak · 08-08-2007, 12:42 PM

Shame this is getting unstickied. Is it true the author really doesn't want this info posted anymore? Its a great resource.

Grimwell · 10-26-2007, 02:28 PM

The original author of this thread is back on the game and has requested a sticky! I'm all about that since it's awesome and I'd like to see it maintained.

Rokjin · 01-06-2008, 02:38 PM

Just a note that I have edited the first two posts, added some clarification that delay has no effect on min:max ratio and added a weapon dr calculation example.

FightGame · 04-05-2008, 06:05 PM

For clarification, the OP means 30%, not 0.30%. If it really was 0.30% I don't think anybody would care about crits heh

Iron · 09-09-2008, 02:18 PM

FightGame wrote:

For clarification, the OP means 30%, not 0.30%. If it really was 0.30% I don't think anybody would care about crits heh

He means 0.30% per point of critical hit bonus. So at 100% crit bonus I'd be 30%, if I'm not mistaken.

SkyBee · 05-01-2009, 06:28 PM

Very awesome thread.

I hope this all still stands true with the new "crit bonus" stat introduced with the TSO content. I figure that 1.3 was the default crit bonus and the "crit bonus" stat is a buff to the 1.3. Am I reading this correctly, is the new "crit bonus" stat a percent buff of the 1.3?

theriatis · 03-19-2010, 07:30 AM

Hi,

with the new Expansion i heard rumors that Crit has been changed to be effective at 100% against any Mob (no more getting Crit to 140% to have it effective on a Lvl 95 Mob).

As i heard also the opposite (you still need 130-140% Crit to net 100% Crit against a Lvl 95 Mob) could someone tell me which version is true ?

Regards, Theriatis.

Jesdyr · 03-19-2010, 10:56 AM

theriatis wrote:

could someone tell me which version is true ?

No need to Necro a post that is 3 years old ... There is a thread already about such things releated to changes put in with SF.

04-17-2007, 01:48 PM	#31
Skivley101 Loremaster Join Date: Sep 2005 Location: @ the desk Posts: 1,051	LOL... I was just gona post that info about the dot __________________________________________________ ________________________________ All Priests have the majority of their heals and spells as 1:1 (DOTs are 1:1) or 4:5 ratio. Thus, they will get almost a flat ~0.30% boost per crit. __________________________________________________ ________________________________ maybe i noticed it becuz im a priest..... But on the question of my thread on the weapon dmg mod .....you seemed to miss...my chart was showing about 1.4Xlisted dmg with 444 str ....but then about 2 weeks later i get a 1.83 with 444 str. But then i think i figured it out ....maybe i never did my first testing with the Black scale maul. Thanx for this informative thread .... even though its taken me a little time to digest it __________________ Barbarian~ LvL 75 Warden ,LvL 75 Provisioner, LvL 101 smak talker

04-17-2007, 05:08 PM	#32
Elephanton General Join Date: Sep 2006 Posts: 985	Leanan@Venekor wrote: ElephantonRU wrote: I'd like to question the statement in the very first post of this thread. I don't believe the above-quoted is true, and here's why. My SK has an AOE DOT spell with fixed damage, and it always crits for fixed critical damage as well (x 1.3 of original damage), meaning that for spells, critical damage is calculated this way: STRAIGHT DAMAGE * 1.3 RULE, and not what OP states above. Othewise, if the above was true, the damage would vary for every crit. If you read further in, I do actually state that 1:1 ratio spells, ie: fixed damage, obviously are a straight 1.3x... Same with 4:5 ratio. Anything 3.75:5 ratio and above, will always get a flat 30% bonus, because the lowest number it can hit for is still more then the max. I can see how my statement could be misinterpreted though. Would you say that the follow up text covers that sufficiently or do you want me to actually change the top statements? I see, sorry. Most people would only read a summary in bold text, without going into further details. If you mofidy a summary a bit, this would definitely help. Thank you.

05-07-2007, 08:12 PM	#33
bambinu Lord Join Date: Feb 2006 Posts: 23	Sorry to bother you all. I have read all this post and have been very captivated by the depth of the maths and analysis involved. I think I have got the significance of all the major points except to these following points that I am not sure. Assuming a linear spread of hits, then 65% of hits will be 2.3 or below. (1.3/2 = 0.65) Thus we have that 65% of crits will do 3 damage, while the other 35% will do 3 to 3.9, with an average of 3.45 ((3+3.9)/2 = 3.45). Thus the average crit will be = 65% * 3 + 35% * 3.45 = 3.1575 ~= 3.16. From where is the 65% and the other data in the above quote derived? I was looking at 2 great weapons, both with 4 delay. Grinning Dirk of Horror 24-215 base (avg base 119.5) and Bisected Saber 65-196 base (avg base 130.5). CrazyPaladin2 was looking for these two weapons. My question is how do u work out the average base dmg as I cannot find it and when I tried to work the solution backwards I got some pretty uneven answers. Thanks for your assistance.

05-07-2007, 09:07 PM	#34
Rokjin Loremaster Join Date: Nov 2005 Posts: 511	bambinu wrote: Assuming a linear spread of hits, then 65% of hits will be 2.3 or below. (1.3/2 = 0.65) Thus we have that 65% of crits will do 3 damage, while the other 35% will do 3 to 3.9, with an average of 3.45 ((3+3.9)/2 = 3.45). Thus the average crit will be = 65% * 3 + 35% * 3.45 = 3.1575 ~= 3.16. From where is the 65% and the other data in the above quote derived? The weapon that I am considering there has a damage of 1-3.. Any critical hit that would be less than 3 after being multiplied by 1.3 is brought up to 3. So to figure out at which point a hit is brought up, I take 3 / 1.3 = 2.3. So any hit below 2.3 is adjusted up to 3, right? Okay, so now we have to figure out what percentage of the hits from 1-3 will be below 2.3. To figure out the percentage, we have to convert that to a 0-1 range. Subtracting 1 from both sides, we get 0-2 and any hit below 1.3 will be adjusted up. So to get 0-1, we have to divide both sides by 2.. This gives us a 0-1 damage range, and 1.3 / 2 = 0.65. So.. 65% of the time the weapon will hit at or below 2.3. Thus 65% of crits will do 3 damage. Since 65% of crits do 3 damage, the other 35% of hits (2.3 - 3 damage) which converts to 3-3.9 crits. Taking the average of those two numbers.. the average of 3 is ofcourse 3.. and the average of 3-3.9 is (3+3.9) / 2 which gives 3.45. So, 65% of the time it will hit for 3, the other 35% for 3.45.. which works out to ~3.16 on average. bambinu wrote: I was looking at 2 great weapons, both with 4 delay. Grinning Dirk of Horror 24-215 base (avg base 119.5) and Bisected Saber 65-196 base (avg base 130.5). CrazyPaladin2 was looking for these two weapons. My question is how do u work out the average base dmg as I cannot find it and when I tried to work the solution backwards I got some pretty uneven answers. Thanks for your assistance. The avg base of 119.5 and 130.5 quoted? That's easy.. like any other average.. add the min to the max, divide by 2.. So for GDoH, (24 + 215) / 2 = 119.5. Same for Bisected Saber. __________________ Braznak, Swashy of Venekor, Darkshine Initiative Leanan Sidhe, Retired, Venekor Rokkah Shineteeths, Retired, Antonia Bayle

07-06-2007, 10:25 PM	#37
Zygwen Loremaster Join Date: Nov 2004 Posts: 277	Grimwell wrote: At the authors request, I'm removing the sticky from this thread as it's out of date. Um, as far as I know, the formulas he posted are still valid. I have not seen any post by devs stating that the combat system is going through another overhaul that would change these formulas. If someone knows for sure that this information is out of date could you kindly point me to where it was stated. Thanks __________________ Evalin, lvl 90 Swashbuckler Joannax, lvl 90 Troubador Sacrifice Oasis

05-08-2007, 04:23 AM	#35
bambinu Lord Join Date: Feb 2006 Posts: 23	Thanks for the detailed answer. I seem to have got all the maths involved now.

07-06-2007, 08:55 PM	#36
Grimwell Community Relations Join Date: Jan 2007 Location: San Diego, CA Posts: 1,062	At the authors request, I'm removing the sticky from this thread as it's out of date.

07-09-2007, 01:10 AM	#38
Dimgl General Join Date: Oct 2005 Location: Atlanta, GA Posts: 381	Zygwen wrote: Grimwell wrote: At the authors request, I'm removing the sticky from this thread as it's out of date. Um, as far as I know, the formulas he posted are still valid. I have not seen any post by devs stating that the combat system is going through another overhaul that would change these formulas. If someone knows for sure that this information is out of date could you kindly point me to where it was stated. Thanks It's not out of date actually. I'm not the author, but speaking on his behalf (I'm his GM and RL friend.) He can't speak on the boards atm because his account has already went out of service. Grimwell may have misunderstood- We wanted all of our guides unstickied because we didn't want them to age to the point where they contained out of date information. As of right now it may be up to date, but with the author(s) taking extended game breaks, you never know when the information become a pile of misinformation which lead others to bad decisions. That is why we had all of our guides unstickied.

08-06-2007, 02:29 PM	#39
Saurine Loremaster Join Date: Nov 2004 Posts: 4	I am all messed up on how Crist realy work. Maybe information overload, but maybe one of you brainiacks can figure it out and help me with it. Bow (wind shaped bow) { Unbuffed } Base Damage: 217 - 652 Actual Damage: 625 - 1,874 Actual Delay 4.1 Proc Percent:21.0% Procs Per Minute: 1.7 { Buffed } Base Damage: 373 - 1,119 Actual Damage: 1,073 - 3,218 Actual Delay 3.1 Proc Percent:21.0% Procs Per Minute: 1.7 My different ranged crits. Unbuffed: 31% Focus Aim: 76% Trueshot: 41% Focus Aim+Trueshot: 86% With that info what would my crits be like according to the above mentioned post. Thnx, Saurine

08-07-2007, 10:55 AM	#40
jarlaxle8 General Join Date: Apr 2005 Posts: 512	Saurine wrote: I am all messed up on how Crist realy work. Maybe information overload, but maybe one of you brainiacks can figure it out and help me with it. Bow (wind shaped bow) { Unbuffed } Base Damage: 217 - 652 Actual Damage: 625 - 1,874 Actual Delay 4.1 Proc Percent:21.0% Procs Per Minute: 1.7 { Buffed } Base Damage: 373 - 1,119 Actual Damage: 1,073 - 3,218 Actual Delay 3.1 Proc Percent:21.0% Procs Per Minute: 1.7 My different ranged crits. Unbuffed: 31% Focus Aim: 76% Trueshot: 41% Focus Aim+Trueshot: 86% With that info what would my crits be like according to the above mentioned post. Thnx, Saurine Yor Wind Shaped Bow has a ratio between High-Damage and Low-Damage of 3:1. That's the same ratio as the OP gave in his example, so the damage rating gain would be 58% for 100% crits. For you different crit chances you would get: Unbuffed: 31% x 58% = 18.0 % DR gain Focus Aim: 76% x 58% = 44.1 % DR gain Trueshot: 41% x 58% = 23.8 % DR gain Focus+True: 86% x 58% = 49.9 %DR gain The DR is calculated like this (if you didn't know): (High-Damage+Low-Damage)/Delay. If you want to know how much the damage is of 1 crit hit, it's between High-Damage+1 and High-Damage x 1.3. The values you gave for unbuffed and buffed are a bit strange btw. Unhasted delay on Wind Shaped would be 7 seconds. __________________

08-07-2007, 04:18 PM	#41
Saurine Loremaster Join Date: Nov 2004 Posts: 4	All that was from doing /weapon stat. First one is with no buffs on at all. The second one is after I buffed for DPS mode I.E. your constant effect buffs. Saurine Lonewolf

08-08-2007, 12:42 PM	#42
Krontak Loremaster Join Date: Nov 2004 Posts: 438	Shame this is getting unstickied. Is it true the author really doesn't want this info posted anymore? Its a great resource. __________________

10-26-2007, 02:28 PM	#43
Grimwell Community Relations Join Date: Jan 2007 Location: San Diego, CA Posts: 1,062	The original author of this thread is back on the game and has requested a sticky! I'm all about that since it's awesome and I'd like to see it maintained.

01-06-2008, 02:38 PM	#44
Rokjin Loremaster Join Date: Nov 2005 Posts: 511	Just a note that I have edited the first two posts, added some clarification that delay has no effect on min:max ratio and added a weapon dr calculation example. __________________ Braznak, Swashy of Venekor, Darkshine Initiative Leanan Sidhe, Retired, Venekor Rokkah Shineteeths, Retired, Antonia Bayle

04-05-2008, 06:05 PM	#45
FightGame Loremaster Join Date: Sep 2005 Posts: 548	For clarification, the OP means 30%, not 0.30%. If it really was 0.30% I don't think anybody would care about crits heh __________________

09-09-2008, 02:18 PM	#46
Iron Server: Crushbone Historian Join Date: Sep 2008 Posts: 2	FightGame wrote: For clarification, the OP means 30%, not 0.30%. If it really was 0.30% I don't think anybody would care about crits heh He means 0.30% per point of critical hit bonus. So at 100% crit bonus I'd be 30%, if I'm not mistaken.

05-01-2009, 06:28 PM	#47
SkyBee Loremaster Join Date: Jan 2007 Posts: 148	Very awesome thread. I hope this all still stands true with the new "crit bonus" stat introduced with the TSO content. I figure that 1.3 was the default crit bonus and the "crit bonus" stat is a buff to the 1.3. Am I reading this correctly, is the new "crit bonus" stat a percent buff of the 1.3?

03-19-2010, 07:30 AM	#48
theriatis Loremaster Join Date: Nov 2004 Posts: 927	Hi, with the new Expansion i heard rumors that Crit has been changed to be effective at 100% against any Mob (no more getting Crit to 140% to have it effective on a Lvl 95 Mob). As i heard also the opposite (you still need 130-140% Crit to net 100% Crit against a Lvl 95 Mob) could someone tell me which version is true ? Regards, Theriatis. __________________ If you're laughing at my (english) grammar, just try writing in my language; i need a good laugh now and then, too

03-19-2010, 10:56 AM	#49
Jesdyr Server: Unrest Guild: Curmudgeons Rank: Senior Officer Loremaster Join Date: Jan 2007 Posts: 3,710	theriatis wrote: could someone tell me which version is true ? No need to Necro a post that is 3 years old ... There is a thread already about such things releated to changes put in with SF.