Is SOE painting themselves into a corner?

[Gisallo]

Okay I was thinking a head to the next expansion.  While doing so I had the following thing(s) in mind; the life blood of an MMO is new subsribers and old time subscribers rolling new toons.

With this in mind is the shard system going to bite them in the butt?  I am going to assume with the next expansion there will be a level cap rise.  Due to progression issues though Tier 2 shard armor will also basically be a requirement to just begin the grind to 90.  Is a new player not going to find having to farm over 100 shards before moving on from level 80 to 81 daunting.  Will this also not discourage the casual gamer from rolling a new toon and really tbh the serial reroller is the main money generator for these games.

With this in mind I was wondering...come the next expansion are we going to see the "regular" 2 shard quest and the "daily quintuple"?  If this happens are we going to see more angst than we saw with the introduction of the single and 2 shard quest?  Just some random musings.

[Lethe5683]

I hate the shard sysytem especially due to the fact that it compltly limits each class to a particular playstyle and provides no alternate equipment.  Also because there is shard armor they did not bother to put any other reasonably good armor drops in any of the isntances.

[Gaige]

Level 90 treasured will be better than T2 shard armor anyway.  Besides they will implement an easy solo quest path from 80 to 90 that awards good legendary and enough plat to upgrade to adept 3s.

[Novusod]

The level 82 Master Crafted armor will probably be almost as good as T2 shard armor is now. The real challenge for the new player will be grinding the AA.

[nomatterwhat]

I know this is all pure speculation but I would bet a lot of cash that they won't increase the level limit to 90.

They can release fun action packed expansions keeping within the 80 levels they do have.  It'll just invalidate too much, epic weapons / shard armor etc.

Sure they'll introduce more aa's obviously, and a few interesting tweaks.  Can we ever see the day your character can be two professions where you swap one in house?

At the most; maybe they'll increase it to 85.  Personally I always wanted to see a system where they increase it to 83; but those extra levels are only obtainable thru long quest lines (reward: dings you a level) and provides powerful/focused yet not-so-many spell upgrades.  Kind of like the extra 3 levels being the cherry on the top.  That would be cool.  You can do a lot in that system lol, with a OMG look at that item for dinging 83.

[Gaige]

Next expansion will be lvl 90.

[Castonu]

I agree with Gage on this...be looking for level 90.

[Rano]

Id really rather not them increase the level cap...maybe just give us better gear, more dungeons and such, but just keep it at 80.

[Lethe5683]

nomatterwhat wrote:

It'll just invalidate too much, epic weapons / shard armor etc.

Is that a bad thing?

[bks6721]

Lethe5683 wrote:

nomatterwhat wrote:

It'll just invalidate too much, epic weapons / shard armor etc.

Is that a bad thing?

I think so.   Just think of how many SETS of armor there is right now just for this teir.  Can you imagine getting RoK gear, TSO gear then finally the new expansion gear.. all the same level.  I think our current expansion is somewhat hosed.  The gear I have now is leaps ahead of the gear I had a year ago.  Yet its the same level legendary.  Our gear went up a teir but we didn't. If the level cap goes up the MC is gonna have to be rediculously good if they want anyone to buy it.

[Lleren]

Yes SoE has painted themselves into a corner. 

 My expectations for the next expansion

Level 90 Cap, all previous expansions included

50 added to the AA Cap, no new lines. 15/15/20

Mythical Epics the best weapons until mid to late tier raiding , Fabled Epics really tough to beat for casual players.

Moderate difficulty "solo"  questlines to get to 90 ... ,expect most to duo or trio these. at least 3 will have fabled rewards.

82 Mastercrafted at about the values of t2 shard armor, also sets of 87 Mastercrafted at t3 shard armor values

Casual players capping  any 1 of mellee crit, ranged crit, spell  crit, double attack or ranged double attack, the mark of a decent casual raider will be to have all that apply to you capped. 

Tanks breaking 20k hps Self Buffed. 

T1 DPS breaking 30kdps buffed

Gear Effects that duplicate bardsongs/chanter buffs, and do not stack with them.

Bards/Chanters getting new OMG  buffs, but they are all raidwide.  This is to replace buffs that are no longer as usefull as everyone on the raid is capped.  1 each of   Dirge / Troub/Coercer/Illusionist is seen as optimal

The Rise of the Summoners as the Uber again class of the expansion. 

Rangers make Assassins cry, more then usual that is.

[Faenril]

Next XPac will be the same story as usal, probably with level cap increase. Solo quest content will be trivial for well geared 80 folks (shard gear and higher). It will be moderate difficulty for an 80 in treasured/quested ROK gear. Some ppl will cry how mobs are insanely hard to solo and zomg the sky is falling. Some ppl will cry that it's too easy and all difficulty is gone from this game and zomg the sky is falling. Easily available old gear (MC/quested) will eventually be upgraded to help new players as they approach lvl cap. Mobs will eventually be nerfed. New players who are willing to learn the ropes and put the work will succeed. New players who are not will eventually fail. The sky will not fall. EQ2 will still be running with a subset of its current subscriber base.

[Edit]

Another way to answer the OP:

Was farming a complete EOF legendary set required to start ROK solo progression ? no

Was farming a complete ROK legendary set required to start TSO solo progression ? no

Will farming a complete shard gear set be required to start solo progression ? no

[Zorastiz]

Lethe5683 wrote:

nomatterwhat wrote:

It'll just invalidate too much, epic weapons / shard armor etc.

Is that a bad thing?

In EQ-1 there are 3 versions of EPIC weapons, so it's been done before.

[madha]

Zorastiz@Antonia Bayle wrote:

Lethe5683 wrote:

nomatterwhat wrote:

It'll just invalidate too much, epic weapons / shard armor etc.

Is that a bad thing?

In EQ-1 there are 3 versions of EPIC weapons, so it's been done before.

Im all for this if

1. you dont need your mythical vs 1 to get your fabled vs2

2. vs 1 becomes solo at 90, imagine trying to get groups for chardok at 90

3 vs2 has a vastly different apperance and even wield style compairerd to vs 1, mystic wants a spear dangit

3 just up the stats and dmg rating most mythicals bonus scale and dont need to be changed

As fr shard gear im sure mc will have better stats then t2 armor, and prob have crit mit as well. Only thing you loose out on in set bonuses, wich soe might surpice us and make bonuses a adornment type system where you can attatch the bonus to what ever gear you want =P.

[cronar]

I just wish people would stop with all the moaning and groaning and crying.

If you play the game, it should be about fun. If you are having fun, play it. If it is too much of a chore for you, play something else.

If the thought of leveling up another 10 levels and getting better gear bugs you, quit, as it is obvious you can't hack it playing in an mmo.

I have no pity for people who burn through content and then cry when they hit that virtual brick wall.

Just play.

[RafaelSmith]

With TSO and specifically 'shard gear' SOE has pretty much removed any sense of diversity with the classes and any reason to think about gear selection.

Future expansions will just add more and more shard sets......T5,T6, yada yada.

Everyone within a particular subclass will be geared exactly the same.  Sorta back to the way things were pre T8 when everyone just used mastercrafted for each tier.

I really hate the whole shard gear design.

[nomatterwhat]

Gage wrote:

Next expansion will be lvl 90.

hey at least I said I was specualting, but if you wanna correct me (and others);

--- got link?

I'd be disappointed if they raise the cap.  It's the never ending grind.  I wanna make the best possible toon at max level that I can, not keep getting the reset button hit every other year.  They can add plenty of things to achieve and still keep lvl 80.

[Coho1]

I'd guess they will just increase shard drop rate and maybe trash mob drops in the future.

[Yimway]

The sollution is quite simple really.

The items obtainable via soloing t9 content will be roughly as good as t2 gear of previous content.  So, new people will skip tso shards and zones nearly entirely.

[Valdaglerion]

I would have to say based on their history to look for level cap of 90 coming this November but personally, I would rather them not do it.

I would much rather them completely remove the cap on the AA trees and focus more on...

1. Fixing the broken mechanics (make the game more playable and take more use of the GPUs for rendering)
2. Increasing the number of quests at the higher levels and making them more intersting (thinking along the lines of DoF questing)
3. Multi-housing options on a single toon
4. Multi-classing for tradeskill professions. No reason this shouldnt be done. Make tradeskilling completely skill based and allow them all on a single toon if you want to skill them up.
5. Balance out the roles a bit better for certain classes based on their archetype and begin a consolidation in archetypes (fighter, priest, mage, scout). They have gotten so specific now with scripts, mobs and instances that you cant have a mage you need a chanter which makes the content more obscure for some classes. The abilities need to be looked into more heavily to make the game more versatile and fun again.

As for gear progression, there really isnt any when it comes to level cap increases. How many people did the Prismatic 1 line before doing Claymore? Or did Claymore before SoD? SoD before Epic? etc. One is not dependent on the preceeding which nullifies progression in a way anway. It becomes less about progression and more about power leveling to level cap and THEN spending time on the last tier only.

Its the whole thing of people saying their toons are mastered when in fact they only have T8 masters and everything from T1 - 80 is app IV and a1 mostly. How about adding in advantages for people to spend time knowing their primary toons inside and out with the opportunity to constantly advance those toons? Losing AA, XP, etc is a frustration point I think many of us could do without.

[LygerT]

you will also have the decay system for tiered gear, after most of you have seen links to the current avatar gear and endgame drops you can understand they have nowhere to go but to nerf that gear and make it undesirable as you get to the new level cap. personally the fact that they overpowered the gear so much and forced the future decay system on the rest of the players is what irks me the most. i hated the thought of the decay system.

[Keikoku]

nomatterwhat wrote:

Gage wrote:

Next expansion will be lvl 90.

hey at least I said I was specualting, but if you wanna correct me (and others);

--- got link?

I'd be disappointed if they raise the cap.  It's the never ending grind.  I wanna make the best possible toon at max level that I can, not keep getting the reset button hit every other year.  They can add plenty of things to achieve and still keep lvl 80.

Honestly, I maybe the only one here, I was really upset that they didn't raise level cap last time.  I hadn't been max level very long before TSO came out, but I knew I didn't want to be max level another year.  What's left for those of us who are max level?  Roll a new toon?  I'm sorry, I'm not much of an alt person.  I like to build my main character.  It's only been recently(about a month) that I joined a raiding guild.  But I'll be damned if I'm gonna sit around another expansion that doesn't increase the level cap.  I'm fairly bored, and would like to see this happen.

[feldon30]

Lethe5683 wrote:

I hate the shard sysytem especially due to the fact that it compltly limits each class to a particular playstyle and provides no alternate equipment.  Also because there is shard armor they did not bother to put any other reasonably good armor drops in any of the isntances.

Your posts just boggle the mind. I still do not understand what your preferred playstyle is an an ASSASSIN. Out of the 24 classes, this is the most rigid, clear-cut, role-defined class in the game.

If you REALLY want flexibility, STOP PLAYING THE ASSASSIN. Roll a Mystic, or a Troubador, or a Warden or some other class that has choices.

If you want creativity, quit playing a class that, by its very definition, has one purpose in the universe -- killing enemies with stealth.

[feldon30]

Gaylon@Mistmoore wrote:

Everyone within a particular subclass will be geared exactly the same.  Sorta back to the way things were pre T8 when everyone just used mastercrafted for each tier.

When 70 was the cap, I assure you most people were not using MC. MC wasn't as buffed up as it is now.

[erin]

Lyger@Mistmoore wrote:

you will also have the decay system for tiered gear, after most of you have seen links to the current avatar gear and endgame drops you can understand they have nowhere to go but to nerf that gear and make it undesirable as you get to the new level cap. personally the fact that they overpowered the gear so much and forced the future decay system on the rest of the players is what irks me the most. i hated the thought of the decay system.

Link?

If this is true I will be seriously looking for a new game fairly quickly.  No I'm not rage quitting, but any sort of gear decay system is a massive turn off for me, and generally I don't play games that use it.

[Gisallo]

Faenril@Nagafen wrote:

[Edit]

Another way to answer the OP:

Was farming a complete EOF legendary set required to start ROK solo progression ? no

Was farming a complete ROK legendary set required to start TSO solo progression ? no

Will farming a complete shard gear set be required to start solo progression ? no

You and a few others I think miss one thing.  Crit Mit.   My friends and I are pretty much assuming that Crit mit (at least some minor level of it) is going to creep its way into every corner of the game because of the ease of acquireing shards.  Whether it be Relic armor or VP set pieces, Prismatics, Claymore, SoD etc, these items were not basically required by the game to survive some types of encounters.  even just 20% crit mit can quite literally be the difference between life and death in the new x2 zone as an example.  This is admittedly part of my equation.

[Gisallo]

Lyger@Mistmoore wrote:

you will also have the decay system for tiered gear, after most of you have seen links to the current avatar gear and endgame drops you can understand they have nowhere to go but to nerf that gear and make it undesirable as you get to the new level cap. personally the fact that they overpowered the gear so much and forced the future decay system on the rest of the players is what irks me the most. i hated the thought of the decay system.

Oh I do to.  I think this is their lazy way of dealing with gear inflation.  "Well we can't nerf the gear for those tiers without nerfing the content, god thats a lot of work.  Lets just make the content come T9 not continue with the same progression AND make the gear from T8 "decay" so we can also change the progression of gear as well."  This is at least how I read it.

[Rijacki]

erin wrote:

Lyger@Mistmoore wrote:

you will also have the decay system for tiered gear, after most of you have seen links to the current avatar gear and endgame drops you can understand they have nowhere to go but to nerf that gear and make it undesirable as you get to the new level cap. personally the fact that they overpowered the gear so much and forced the future decay system on the rest of the players is what irks me the most. i hated the thought of the decay system.

Link?

If this is true I will be seriously looking for a new game fairly quickly.  No I'm not rage quitting, but any sort of gear decay system is a massive turn off for me, and generally I don't play games that use it.

Only players have speculated about a 'decay' system.

In TSO beta and then on Test for a while, the devs were toying with expanding and making more transparent the difference in using, as an example, level 69 gear against a level 82 target vs using level 77 gear vs the same level 82 target. The gear wouldn't "decay" but gear far below the level of the target would be reduced in its effects, sort of like a diminishing returns effect. It would, though, make a level 45 charm utterly worthless vs a level 85 epic target while still being greatly effective vs a level 55 target.

However, it, like the fighter changes, has been put back on the drawing board for more redesign since it ended up being more confusing and fed more alarmist responses than any benefits it engendered. Calling it a 'decay' is one such alamist response borne out of a lack of understand for the concept and/or execution.

[Bratface]

Lethe5683 wrote:

I hate the shard sysytem especially due to the fact that it compltly limits each class to a particular playstyle and provides no alternate equipment.  Also because there is shard armor they did not bother to put any other reasonably good armor drops in any of the isntances.

Now that's funny because I see lots of choices for my toons, my priests have melee options and healer options, in fact I think my toons have a greater number of options since TSO and I don't have to farm zones for drops that don't drop, I can just aquire the currancy of the realm (shards) and BUY what I want instead of killing a mob over and over again hoping it finally drops the drop I want.

I often wonder if you even play the same game as the rest of us since your experience is so opposite from most other people.

[Tibis_Heartseeker]

In EQ1, people thought that equipment was getting 'too powerful' when they saw top-end Velious gear, and top-end Luclin gear, and top-end Planes of Power gear.

If the next expansion expands the level cap up to 90, then I'm sure they'll find room for some bigger numbers and maybe even add interesting new effects for old maxed-out numbers (eg, at 81+, double attack chances over 100% might allow for a triple attack, and so on).