Character slots

[Raelin]

Yep, this has been discussed before numerous times. Probably beaten to death in fact. But with this new promise of "working together and listening to the players" that was made, I felt it should be brought up one more time perhaps. 7 character slots simply isn't enough in a game as expansive as EQ2, and with its 24 classes. EQ1 had 10-12 slots per server, so it was possible to play everything without having to pay station access or for multiple accounts. Matter of fact, most MMOs out there give 10-12 per server, some even up to 36. (Not mentioning names for what should be obvious reasons, not looking for a flame war) They make sure you can try and play every class, helping people to stick around longer to keep playing and trying things out. At this point, 7 is simply not enough. We should have, at the least, gotten 1 for Sarnaks. Of course, having 12 would be nice, we could at least play 1 of each pair, which would keep people playing even longer. For me personally, I can't, nor would I, pay 30 a month for more character slots. I am sure others feel the same way. If this is truly our game, then why not do something simple like this for the players, to give us more to do and keep us around longer. You won't lose the 2 boxers, they'll keep at it, and overall, you'd have a happier playbase imho.

[Femke]

Other MMO's out there have indeed a number of charters per server. But that means nothing to me. I want to have all my charaters on one server.

You say that most MMO's have 10 or 12 slots. Now I won't claim that I have played all MMO's, but those that I have played have not (UO 6 per servers, Linage II 7 per server, CoV 4 or 5, SWG even less).

For me it is not a problem. 7 is even more then I can play (time). You say that is not a solution for you, but still I have to say if you want more slots get a Station account or buy a second account. But that is only me.

[bigsigh]

I agree 100% with the OP. We NEED more slots. I refuse to pay for another account just so I can play one character that I otherwise have no room to create.

[Wingrider01]

A record, been at least 60 days since this came up...

[Nighrbringer]

Leetha@Antonia Bayle wrote:

Other MMO's out there have indeed a number of charters per server. But that means nothing to me. I want to have all my charaters on one server.

You say that most MMO's have 10 or 12 slots. Now I won't claim that I have played all MMO's, but those that I have played have not (UO 6 per servers, Linage II 7 per server, CoV 4 or 5, SWG even less).

For me it is not a problem. 7 is even more then I can play (time). You say that is not a solution for you, but still I have to say if you want more slots get a Station account or buy a second account. But that is only me.

Ummm

CoH / CoV is 12 per server, with the option to buy additional slots, up to 36 per server.

[Aneova]

I think a new option besides paying an extra 15 bucks would be better for 5 extra character slots (it was 4 before neriak but when base slot amount went to 7 station access holders went from 10 to 12 char slots). Not everyone has all the SOE titles and it used to include the adventure packs with that price but now all the adventure packs come with each expansion (starting with RoK). This does need to change, I think 5 dollars is more then enough to pay for those 5 slots, so how bout it? Isn't it time for a change?

[Wingrider01]

Aneova@Kithicor wrote:

I think a new option besides paying an extra 15 bucks would be better for 5 extra character slots (it was 4 before neriak but when base slot amount went to 7 station access holders went from 10 to 12 char slots). Not everyone has all the SOE titles and it used to include the adventure packs with that price but now all the adventure packs come with each expansion (starting with RoK). This does need to change, I think 5 dollars is more then enough to pay for those 5 slots, so how bout it? Isn't it time for a change?

How about 1 dollar a slot per month?

[Nighrbringer]

Wingrider01 wrote:

Aneova@Kithicor wrote:

I think a new option besides paying an extra 15 bucks would be better for 5 extra character slots (it was 4 before neriak but when base slot amount went to 7 station access holders went from 10 to 12 char slots). Not everyone has all the SOE titles and it used to include the adventure packs with that price but now all the adventure packs come with each expansion (starting with RoK). This does need to change, I think 5 dollars is more then enough to pay for those 5 slots, so how bout it? Isn't it time for a change?

How about 1 dollar a slot per month?

I believe City of Heroes is a $5 one time fee for every slot over 12 on any given server. I could live with that kind of fee structure in EQ2, but there is no way I'm going to pay $15 a month just to finish out my tradeskill classes.

[Chanaluss]

Nightbringer@Everfrost wrote:

Wingrider01 wrote:

Aneova@Kithicor wrote:

I think a new option besides paying an extra 15 bucks would be better for 5 extra character slots (it was 4 before neriak but when base slot amount went to 7 station access holders went from 10 to 12 char slots). Not everyone has all the SOE titles and it used to include the adventure packs with that price but now all the adventure packs come with each expansion (starting with RoK). This does need to change, I think 5 dollars is more then enough to pay for those 5 slots, so how bout it? Isn't it time for a change?

How about 1 dollar a slot per month?

I believe City of Heroes is a $5 one time fee for every slot over 12 on any given server. I could live with that kind of fee structure in EQ2, but there is no way I'm going to pay $15 a month just to finish out my tradeskill classes.

CoH's system is 1 extra character slot per 1 year of vet rewards, plus 4.99 for 1 slot, 9.99 for 2 slots, 19.99 for 5 slots...iirc

i would not be opposed to vet reward character slots =)

[Wingrider01]

Charuthus@Antonia Bayle wrote:

Nightbringer@Everfrost wrote:

Wingrider01 wrote:

Aneova@Kithicor wrote:

I think a new option besides paying an extra 15 bucks would be better for 5 extra character slots (it was 4 before neriak but when base slot amount went to 7 station access holders went from 10 to 12 char slots). Not everyone has all the SOE titles and it used to include the adventure packs with that price but now all the adventure packs come with each expansion (starting with RoK). This does need to change, I think 5 dollars is more then enough to pay for those 5 slots, so how bout it? Isn't it time for a change?

How about 1 dollar a slot per month?

I believe City of Heroes is a $5 one time fee for every slot over 12 on any given server. I could live with that kind of fee structure in EQ2, but there is no way I'm going to pay $15 a month just to finish out my tradeskill classes.

CoH's system is 1 extra character slot per 1 year of vet rewards, plus 4.99 for 1 slot, 9.99 for 2 slots, 19.99 for 5 slots...iirc

i would not be opposed to vet reward character slots =)

Comparision to other games is a mute point, they are not run by SOE.

TANSTAAFL - enterprise level stoarge from EMC, NetApp, IBM is not something you can pick up form the local stores,  redunancy and reliablity costs.

[Chanaluss]

Wingrider01 wrote:

Comparision to other games is a mute point, they are not run by SOE.

TANSTAAFL - enterprise level stoarge from EMC, NetApp, IBM is not something you can pick up form the local stores, redunancy and reliablity costs.

ideas shouldnt be restricted to just those from the same company. if its a good idea for NCNorCal, why cant it be a good idea for SOE?

[erin]

Wingrider01 wrote:

Comparision to other games is a mute point, they are not run by SOE.

TANSTAAFL - enterprise level stoarge from EMC, NetApp, IBM is not something you can pick up form the local stores,  redunancy and reliablity costs.

I won't disagree with you.  However, I would think that player retention is a huge issue for SOE right now.

They go out of their way to reward players coming back (but NOT people who are loyal players without interruption).

How about throwing a bone to the loyal player base for a change?  An extra character slot or 3 wouldn't kill them, and we're willing to pay a reasonable amount for them.

[Wingrider01]

erin wrote:

Wingrider01 wrote:

Comparision to other games is a mute point, they are not run by SOE.

TANSTAAFL - enterprise level stoarge from EMC, NetApp, IBM is not something you can pick up form the local stores,  redunancy and reliablity costs.

I won't disagree with you.  However, I would think that player retention is a huge issue for SOE right now.

They go out of their way to reward players coming back (but NOT people who are loyal players without interruption).

How about throwing a bone to the loyal player base for a change?  An extra character slot or 3 wouldn't kill them, and we're willing to pay a reasonable amount for them.

They never rewarded a retruning player with an extra character slot, why give them to existing players? They already gave out an extra slot also, but tha was because an additional race was added, so by that token, the next time they add a race then they will give out another slot.

hey I am not againt them, bring them on for every single slot they give regular subscriptions, station access will get two, that works consdiering every one of my accounts are station access. I am just not up on the concept of free in a business world.

Reasonable is a concept, in the business world, storage costs, maintanence and consumables are a reoccurring monthly expense, so any additional disk spaces used should be a reoccurring monthly expense to the end user. Website providers do the exact same thing, you get a base usage, go over you get charged additional to cover the extra expenses.

[erin]

Wingrider01 wrote:

hey I am not againt them, bring them on for every single slot they give regular subscriptions, station access will get two, that works consdiering every one of my accounts are station access. I am just not up on the concept of free in a business world.

Reasonable is a concept, in the business world, storage costs, maintanence and consumables are a reoccurring monthly expense, so any additional disk spaces used should be a reoccurring monthly expense to the end user. Website providers do the exact same thing, you get a base usage, go over you get charged additional to cover the extra expenses.

You obviously missed my point, player retention is the reason they should do it.

[Raelin]

Wingrider01 wrote:

erin wrote:

Wingrider01 wrote:

Comparision to other games is a mute point, they are not run by SOE.

TANSTAAFL - enterprise level stoarge from EMC, NetApp, IBM is not something you can pick up form the local stores,  redunancy and reliablity costs.

I won't disagree with you.  However, I would think that player retention is a huge issue for SOE right now.

They go out of their way to reward players coming back (but NOT people who are loyal players without interruption).

How about throwing a bone to the loyal player base for a change?  An extra character slot or 3 wouldn't kill them, and we're willing to pay a reasonable amount for them.

They never rewarded a retruning player with an extra character slot, why give them to existing players? They already gave out an extra slot also, but tha was because an additional race was added, so by that token, the next time they add a race then they will give out another slot.

hey I am not againt them, bring them on for every single slot they give regular subscriptions, station access will get two, that works consdiering every one of my accounts are station access. I am just not up on the concept of free in a business world.

Reasonable is a concept, in the business world, storage costs, maintanence and consumables are a reoccurring monthly expense, so any additional disk spaces used should be a reoccurring monthly expense to the end user. Website providers do the exact same thing, you get a base usage, go over you get charged additional to cover the extra expenses.

They added a slot for Arasai, but not one when Sarnaks were added, so there is no "token" to go by. And those games may not be run by SoE, but SoE tries to get people here to play EQ2, then doesn't do a whole lot to keep the people that were here already. There may be a ton of content, but not all of it will be seen by all people. For some, getting to 80 and some shard runs will be it, then they move on to a new character. What happens when they run out? With the way things are going, not everyone can or will fork over 15 more for a few character slots, and they'll just go elsewhere. As is, I have yet to do anything in this game pre 70 without it being me and 5 70+ mentors. Sure, we can blow through everything that way, but it doesn't really give me an opportunity to play the game and experience things. If they had more character slots, maybe we'd see the lower levels pick back up again as they rolled alts to work on, instead of always just grabbing a random level 80 to come mentor with. The game is practically dead pre 70, everyone has their level 80s all leveled up and there are hardly any new people or alts being made. Maybe a simple change like this could give some life to the pre 70 game.

[Wingrider01]

erin wrote:

Wingrider01 wrote:

hey I am not againt them, bring them on for every single slot they give regular subscriptions, station access will get two, that works consdiering every one of my accounts are station access. I am just not up on the concept of free in a business world.

Reasonable is a concept, in the business world, storage costs, maintanence and consumables are a reoccurring monthly expense, so any additional disk spaces used should be a reoccurring monthly expense to the end user. Website providers do the exact same thing, you get a base usage, go over you get charged additional to cover the extra expenses.

You obviously missed my point, player retention is the reason they should do it.

really don;t an extra character slot would retain many players, would suspect that those that are leaving are leaving for a lot other reasons and not a slot.

[Wingrider01]

Raelin@Mistmoore wrote:

Wingrider01 wrote:

erin wrote:

Wingrider01 wrote:

Comparision to other games is a mute point, they are not run by SOE.

TANSTAAFL - enterprise level stoarge from EMC, NetApp, IBM is not something you can pick up form the local stores,  redunancy and reliablity costs.

I won't disagree with you.  However, I would think that player retention is a huge issue for SOE right now.

They go out of their way to reward players coming back (but NOT people who are loyal players without interruption).

How about throwing a bone to the loyal player base for a change?  An extra character slot or 3 wouldn't kill them, and we're willing to pay a reasonable amount for them.

They never rewarded a retruning player with an extra character slot, why give them to existing players? They already gave out an extra slot also, but tha was because an additional race was added, so by that token, the next time they add a race then they will give out another slot.

hey I am not againt them, bring them on for every single slot they give regular subscriptions, station access will get two, that works consdiering every one of my accounts are station access. I am just not up on the concept of free in a business world.

Reasonable is a concept, in the business world, storage costs, maintanence and consumables are a reoccurring monthly expense, so any additional disk spaces used should be a reoccurring monthly expense to the end user. Website providers do the exact same thing, you get a base usage, go over you get charged additional to cover the extra expenses.

They added a slot for Arasai, but not one when Sarnaks were added, so there is no "token" to go by. And those games may not be run by SoE, but SoE tries to get people here to play EQ2, then doesn't do a whole lot to keep the people that were here already. There may be a ton of content, but not all of it will be seen by all people. For some, getting to 80 and some shard runs will be it, then they move on to a new character. What happens when they run out? With the way things are going, not everyone can or will fork over 15 more for a few character slots, and they'll just go elsewhere. As is, I have yet to do anything in this game pre 70 without it being me and 5 70+ mentors. Sure, we can blow through everything that way, but it doesn't really give me an opportunity to play the game and experience things. If they had more character slots, maybe we'd see the lower levels pick back up again as they rolled alts to work on, instead of always just grabbing a random level 80 to come mentor with. The game is practically dead pre 70, everyone has their level 80s all leveled up and there are hardly any new people or alts being made. Maybe a simple change like this could give some life to the pre 70 game.

Ahh, that's it, forgot is was for the winged ones, the frogloks where in the game just not unlocked at realease.

Sorry still don't believe that extra slots will entice a player to stay, the guild members that I know left for real life concerns or disagreements with things inside game, or burn out, not one mentioned it was becauase of not having enough slots to create another character. 

Never said it was a "token" it was an example, that was the only time they gave out a slot, not referenced as a strict rule they shoould give out a slot, should have added "they MIGHT decide"

The RAF program is a lot better for bringing new players in, the ROI is a lot better on this then additional slots.

[madha]

Wingrider01 wrote:

Raelin@Mistmoore wrote:

Ahh, that's it, forgot is was for the winged ones, the frogloks where in the game just not unlocked at realease.

Sorry still don't believe that extra slots will entice a player to stay, the guild members that I know left for real life concerns or disagreements with things inside game, or burn out, not one mentioned it was becauase of not having enough slots to create another character. 

Never said it was a "token" it was an example, that was the only time they gave out a slot, not referenced as a strict rule they shoould give out a slot, should have added "they MIGHT decide"

The RAF program is a lot better for bringing new players in, the ROI is a lot better on this then additional slots.

Correction froglocs where not in game at release nor wher they unlockable they added the world event to unlock them awhile aftyer launch when they could fix their armor issues.

Noone ever leaves because they dont have enough toon slots thats just silly why get 6 toons to 80 and stop playing casue you cant grind another toon to 80.

Doesnt matter to me if they add more slots fix the LS revamp and release the stuff allrdy.

[Spyderbite]

erin wrote:

However, I would think that player retention is a huge issue for SOE right now.

Why? Besides the claims of people who post on the interwebs, where are the numbers showing that people are running off in droves? Not saying its not happening. I just haven't seen it myself. Sometimes, when I read some of these cries of doom, I feel like I'm playing a different game cause not even half the claims of mass exodus are ocurring on my server.

Coincidentally, these types of veiled threats often coincide with requests for free stuff or services. Granted.. it sounds much more polite than "Add this now or I quit".

Wish I could do this at my bank. "I don't know.. you guys seem to have a lot of customers closing their accounts. It'd probably be in your best interest to bump my interest rate up to 50% regardless of whether it will crush your business model or not."

As for more character slots. Personally, I find 12 (w/Station Pass and not including test or EU) slots plenty. As for the cost; I think bumping everyone's monthly subscription a $1 would cover the overhead for things such as database upkeep/expansion. Its definitely not something I would give away for free though. Perhaps even a one time $10 or $15 purchase on Station Cash and then $1/month subscription bump for 5 more slots.

[Wingrider01]

madhatr wrote:

Wingrider01 wrote:

Raelin@Mistmoore wrote:

Ahh, that's it, forgot is was for the winged ones, the frogloks where in the game just not unlocked at realease.

Sorry still don't believe that extra slots will entice a player to stay, the guild members that I know left for real life concerns or disagreements with things inside game, or burn out, not one mentioned it was becauase of not having enough slots to create another character. 

Never said it was a "token" it was an example, that was the only time they gave out a slot, not referenced as a strict rule they shoould give out a slot, should have added "they MIGHT decide"

The RAF program is a lot better for bringing new players in, the ROI is a lot better on this then additional slots.

Correction froglocs where not in game at release nor wher they unlockable they added the world event to unlock them awhile aftyer launch when they could fix their armor issues.

Noone ever leaves because they dont have enough toon slots thats just silly why get 6 toons to 80 and stop playing casue you cant grind another toon to 80.

Doesnt matter to me if they add more slots fix the LS revamp and release the stuff allrdy.

Get 6 to 80 you still have a 7th slot to work on

Frogloks where advertised as in the game originally, the unlock routines where delayed because of the armor issues

[Gilasil]

I can't believe the extra storage would be a big deal.  If there's 200,000 accounts and each character requires 10K (and remember, most of the character info is transmitted to the client so it can't be all that much) we're looking at 2 GB spread across all servers if every single account fills that slot.  Considering that their total disk storage is easily in the terrabytes that's down in the noise.

That said, I see no reason for them to give away something for free.

They could do something like give away an extra character slot with their next expansion, let people buy one (hopefully just a one time fee but whatever), or something else.

I agree with Spyderbyte that too often people "forecast" doom and gloom when they're trying to wheedle something out of SoE.  Hopefully SoE sees through that cheep tactic.  After all THEY know their subscription numbers (the managers probably get monthly reports if not more frequent).  If you say people are leaving in droves and that's why they need to do this; and the SoE managers know for a fact that people are NOT leaving in droves, that kind of cuts the legs out frm under your argument.

[Wingrider01]

Gilasil wrote:

I can't believe the extra storage would be a big deal.  If there's 200,000 accounts and each character requires 10K (and remember, most of the character info is transmitted to the client so it can't be all that much) we're looking at 2 GB spread across all servers if every single account fills that slot.  Considering that their total disk storage is easily in the terrabytes that's down in the noise.

That said, I see no reason for them to give away something for free.

They could do something like give away an extra character slot with their next expansion, let people buy one (hopefully just a one time fee but whatever), or something else.

I agree with Spyderbyte that too often people "forecast" doom and gloom when they're trying to wheedle something out of SoE.  Hopefully SoE sees through that cheep tactic.  After all THEY know their subscription numbers (the managers probably get monthly reports if not more frequent).  If you say people are leaving in droves and that's why they need to do this; and the SoE managers know for a fact that people are NOT leaving in droves, that kind of cuts the legs out frm under your argument.

you are forgetting quite a  few things that are tied to a single character slot, suspect it takes a lot more the 10k.

Monthly reoccuring for additonal slots is the logical way to go, covers all bases for ROI.

Free is free, if it is a item given away with an expansion or handed out, it still consumes storage space. If they gave it out to those that purchased the expansion, those that do not buy the expansion would be screaming bloody murder about it. Not to mention returing players screaming that they are forced to buy the expansion just to play.

 I still have not seen any supporting documentation that "people are leaving in droves" becasue of character slots, just pure speculation. As I mentioned the ones that left from the guild I belong to cited burn out, or real life changes, never once did anyone that left state that they where leaving becasue they could not create all the characters they wanted to.

[erin]

Wingrider01 wrote:

 I still have not seen any supporting documentation that "people are leaving in droves" becasue of character slots,

Nor has anyone claimed that .  I said that for player retention, another character slot might be a good idea.  I never said people are leaving BECAUSE of lack of slots.  Simply that another char slot might encourage people to try out another class or race and might retain them that extra month or two to make it worthwhile for SOE to do this.  Might not.

[Nightho]

Someone earlier on mentioned extra slots as vet rewards, I think that's a really cool idea.

"We see you've played for years, you have several 80's, maybe you'd like to try another class? Hmm but your out of char slots... well for being such a loyal player we'll give you a couple more slots free! Go make that fighter you've been wanting but didn't have the room for."

As for station, the only reason I would pay that much is if I played one of the other games offered on station. Which I don't. Shouldn't have to pay double the normal sub for a couple more char slots in one game.

[Thunderthyze]

$tation Ca$h.

That's the one thing I would consider utilising it for.

[Wingrider01]

erin wrote:

Wingrider01 wrote:

 I still have not seen any supporting documentation that "people are leaving in droves" becasue of character slots,

Nor has anyone claimed that .  I said that for player retention, another character slot might be a good idea.  I never said people are leaving BECAUSE of lack of slots.  Simply that another char slot might encourage people to try out another class or race and might retain them that extra month or two to make it worthwhile for SOE to do this.  Might not.

You yourself indicated in two posts the "player retention" is important, this is indicating a implied statement that people are leaving because they are not enough characters slots available. Would like to see how you came up with the thought that an extra character slot will cause a player that is upset with the way their class is being handled or the fact that a key point in their class defination would stay if they where given a extra character slot.

Player retention is content and class success not character slots.

[Nighrbringer]

Wingrider01 wrote:

Comparision to other games is a mute point, they are not run by SOE.

TANSTAAFL - enterprise level stoarge from EMC, NetApp, IBM is not something you can pick up form the local stores,  redunancy and reliablity costs.

It is not a mute point. Companies other than SOE are competing for my subscription money.

[scruffylookin]

I agree with others here that it would be a superb vet reward. It just makes perfect sense. Who's most likely to have all their slots filled, mixed with the feeling of running out of things to do with their high level toons? Vets.

And it would help with newer players, and there would be more alts to adventure with in the lowbie levels.

For me personally, levels 1 through 60 are the most fun levels in the game. You never run out of choices and you never run out of things to do. It also moves at a really fun pace at those levels. My wife and I are total altaholics, and we would absolutely adore an extra slot or two.

[erin]

Wingrider01 wrote:

erin wrote:

Wingrider01 wrote:

 I still have not seen any supporting documentation that "people are leaving in droves" becasue of character slots,

Nor has anyone claimed that .  I said that for player retention, another character slot might be a good idea.  I never said people are leaving BECAUSE of lack of slots.  Simply that another char slot might encourage people to try out another class or race and might retain them that extra month or two to make it worthwhile for SOE to do this.  Might not.

You yourself indicated in two posts the "player retention" is important, this is indicating a implied statement that people are leaving because they are not enough characters slots available. Would like to see how you came up with the thought that an extra character slot will cause a player that is upset with the way their class is being handled or the fact that a key point in their class defination would stay if they where given a extra character slot.

Player retention is content and class success not character slots.

You are reading a cause and effect into my statements that's just not there. I'll freely admit that I obviously wasn't clear enough though.

I was simply saying that a) player retention is important to SOE (I would hope anyway) and b) more character slots might lead to more player retention, therefore c) more character slots might contribute to more player retention.  Nothing more or less than that was intended.

I never ever meant to (or thought) to imply that people are leaving over this issue.  are they?  Yes, in very small numbers, but there's far more people leaving over bigger issues.

Frankly, if there was another game that appealed to me at all, I would have left recently over the rewards given to returning players.  That was a big pile of crap.  I've been a loyal subscriber since launch and I got squat for it.  They get everything I have (assuming they are returning and not just new) AND then some.  Big steaming pile of crap.  Yes I'm still irritated by it.

Preferential treatment for your returning players over the people who've been paying you steadily for years?

Yeah that's the type of attitude from the company that makes me keep an eye out for the next best thing.  And I'm generally the type that once I leave, I don't come back.  So player retention should be heavy on their minds, but I doubt that it is.

Extra character slots would be an incentive that might make me reconsider.  And no this isn't intended as a "give me free char slots or I'm leaving" type post, I don't do that. When I leave, I leave.  They should be trying to think of ways to make me (and the many like me) stay.

[Tinrae]

I have two accounts with SoE, but it wasn't for more character slots so much as I wanted the option to drag around a healer or buffer if I ever needed. In fact, across my two accounts I have only seven characters with little inclination to create more because I don't have the time to spend on maxing all seven out.

Despite that, on Guild Wars I believe I had a total of 20something slots, the majority of which I had purchased at a one-time fee of $10 a pop when they finally offered that option to their playerbase. I wanted a stable of specifically-geared PvE & PvP toons there so I didn't think twice about the cost.

I'm positive lots of players here would also make purchases if a similarly styled offer was available here, especially since the XP revamp encourages players to create more alts.