Parsing the wall

[Dragonir Dread]

I did a comparison with  voldrath ( dont have myth yet) and eagles talon. voldrath on avg was 300 dps higher on just autoattack alone. I ran the wall  and had an avg of 3 k on 8 runs. that with voldrath. I had the parses but dont really know how to load them in here.Ill run some more and save the comparison for you. Next time ill post the stats as well. I lookign to get the choker and compare the parse  once i do. I hope to have myth soon and would love to see the difference. 

[Tommara]

This was an extremely useful thread - I learned a lot not only from the posts, but also parsing the wall.

But a word of caution:  I just had the following conversation with a GM:

GM X tells you, "Greetings, this is GM X. Do you have a moment to talk?"

You tell GM X, "sure "

GM X tells you, "Can you let other people attack the Training wall when they come by? They need it for a quest and you're preventing them from being able to complete it."

You tell GM X, "sure, i didn't see anybody come by nor did they say anything"GM X tells you, "It's fine. Just try to be considerate to those who might need it for their quest"GM X tells you, "Hogging the wall can be considered zone distruption"You tell GM X, "it's annoying that they bothered you before even letting me know anything"GM X tells you, "Tell me about it "

 Edited Note:  This was after 11 tries.  I was experimenting with arrows, and there was plenty of time for someone to hop in between tries, since there were long delays between each try while I wrote down and studied the results, with a long delay after trial 5 when I moved arrows back and forth out of my quiver (ferrite bodkin (piercing) - 1115, 1312, 1103, 1391, 1263; ferrite field point (crushing) - 1552, 1196, 1539, 1266).  This was with Intoxification pre-cast and one cast of Focus Aim, auto-attack and caustic poison only (no particular reason for the buffs/conditions chosen, except that I wanted consistency between trials, but wanted to minimize the time between trials.)  (Only 9 results listed because I threw out the first 2 since they told me that there was large variability, and that I needed to do several trials under consistent conditions and average the results.  So there was a very long delay between the first 2, and the next 5, while I pondered this, and another very long delay while I swapped out arrows before the next 4 trials.)  

I never saw anyone and no one spoke to me until the GM tell.  I could have missed seeing someone while alt-tabbed out looking at ACT results (in which case, they had plenty of opportunity to kill the wall) but I could not have missed a tell - the above conversation with the GM was taken from my log.   I hate using Shout (/shout if you need to use the Wall, just let me know), but in the absence of ESP to determine if someone needs to use the wall for a quest, I don't know what else to do.

[Zizzu]

Dragonir Dread wrote:

I did a comparison with  voldrath ( dont have myth yet) and eagles talon. voldrath on avg was 300 dps higher on just autoattack alone. I ran the wall  and had an avg of 3 k on 8 runs. that with voldrath. I had the parses but dont really know how to load them in here.Ill run some more and save the comparison for you. Next time ill post the stats as well. I lookign to get the choker and compare the parse  once i do. I hope to have myth soon and would love to see the difference. 

Voldrath is the third best bow "dmp wise". It should beat the Epic easily. Check here for other bows and see how the match up:

http://forums.station.sony.com/eq2/...topic_id=440400

[Tobann]

I dont use the wall naymore. My guild has practice dummies, and though they dont have quite as many HP's it seems to work fine for getting an average. Id suggest that if your guild has one.

Buaf Befallen

[Tommara]

Buaf@Befallen wrote:

I dont use the wall naymore. My guild has practice dummies, and though they dont have quite as many HP's it seems to work fine for getting an average. Id suggest that if your guild has one.

Buaf Befallen

Thanks, I'll check that out.

[dbmoreland]

Buaf@Befallen wrote:

I dont use the wall naymore. My guild has practice dummies, and though they dont have quite as many HP's it seems to work fine for getting an average. Id suggest that if your guild has one.

Buaf Befallen

Not sure what wall and dummy you are using but yesterday the training wall in KJ "died" after I hit it for 130K hit points while the training dummy in my guild hall took 200K hit points to "die".

[Huntress Jellica]

Danean@Guk wrote:

Buaf@Befallen wrote:

I dont use the wall naymore. My guild has practice dummies, and though they dont have quite as many HP's it seems to work fine for getting an average. Id suggest that if your guild has one.

Buaf Befallen

Not sure what wall and dummy you are using but yesterday the training wall in KJ "died" after I hit it for 130K hit points while the training dummy in my guild hall took 200K hit points to "die".

Aye, the training dummies definitely have more hit points. =)

[Tommara]

OK,I checked it out.

Getting the training dummies is an issue for small guilds, primarily because of the amenities cap (they need to eliminate the cap, and just use the cost of amenities as a limiter).  My level 53 guild is only allowed 15 amenities, although we can easily afford more given time (we currently have 12), but yet we're too few to raise the amenity limit anytime soon.  I'm pretty sure my guild leader would go along with the training dummies, I just don't really want to have to ask, since the latest amenities we've obtained were things I requested.  It's time for me to be quiet (yes, I can do that sometimes!  really!), and listen for what other people want, and help them obtain it.

So the practice dummy option is really only available to people in guilds, and there's likely other amenities that are more generally useful (number 1 is transportation). 

And of course, players without guilds really do need a place to practice without having to worry about being reported to a GM.  It's that important.

[Huntress Jellica]

It would be nice if the devs would add a second or even third wall to KJ. Having only one is a bit silly.

Until your guild is able to get the training dummies, maybe you could see if any friends of yours are in a guild that has them. I'm sure they wouldn't mind you popping in to set one up to practice every now and then.

[hieronym]

I recommend taking the results from hitting the wall with a very large pinch of salt. Ungrouped you wont see much of an increase yet grouped you will. Example I was messing about parsing with a training dummy using different bow, no poison, no focus, differnt AA builds etc etc and the difference was nothing. I then raided later in the evening and I was doing a lot more than usual in the same group im usually in. If I kept changing my AA and setup expecting to see big changes Id still be at the dummy now! reason doing extra damage was TSO end points!

just a thought...

[Tommara]

hieronymus wrote:

I recommend taking the results from hitting the wall with a very large pinch of salt. Ungrouped you wont see much of an increase yet grouped you will. Example I was messing about parsing with a training dummy using different bow, no poison, no focus, differnt AA builds etc etc and the difference was nothing. I then raided later in the evening and I was doing a lot more than usual in the same group im usually in. If I kept changing my AA and setup expecting to see big changes Id still be at the dummy now! reason doing extra damage was TSO end points!

just a thought...

I don't understand your point.  The entire point of parsing the wall (or training dummy if you have one) is to isolate against the variabilities in group play, so you can figure out changes that you alone can make to improve your dps.

[Vuz]

Got bored before raid, so I figured I'd participate in this. Please note I completed this test in 11 minutes, including downtime.

AA's: 177Str: 1027Int: 471DPS Mod: 42Haste Mod: 84Ranged Double Attack: 52%Melee Double Attack: 12%Ranged Crit: 77%Melee Crit: 27%Bow: Eagle's Talon (Mythical)Ammo: ferrite field point arrows

[Safana.]

Using bloody reminder as first ca followed by autoattack and using bit more roped shot could increase the parse imo.

[Vuz]

Well, I don't have AA's into Roped Shot, so it seems like I'm using it less than I should be, I just don't have the shortened recast, but I do agree on using Bloody Reminder earlier, sort of a bad habit tbh.

That brings me to another point, we should also state how many AA's we have, I'll go ahead and edit my post.

[Vuz]

After rearranging a few combat arts and pickin up a few new pieces of gear, I figured I'd parse the wall again for a little comparison.

AA's: 179Str: 1051Int: 512DPS Mod: 53Haste Mod: 84Ranged Double Attack: 55%Melee Double Attack: 14%Ranged Crit: 82%Melee Crit: 41%Bow: Eagle's Talon (Mythical)Ammo: ferrite field point arrows

I'd like to thank Safanah for pointing out the Bloody Reminder tip as well.

[Walford]

Tommara wrote:

OK,I checked it out.

Getting the training dummies is an issue for small guilds, primarily because of the amenities cap (they need to eliminate the cap, and just use the cost of amenities as a limiter).  My level 53 guild is only allowed 15 amenities, although we can easily afford more given time (we currently have 12), but yet we're too few to raise the amenity limit anytime soon.  I'm pretty sure my guild leader would go along with the training dummies, I just don't really want to have to ask, since the latest amenities we've obtained were things I requested.  It's time for me to be quiet (yes, I can do that sometimes!  really!), and listen for what other people want, and help them obtain it.

So the practice dummy option is really only available to people in guilds, and there's likely other amenities that are more generally useful (number 1 is transportation). 

And of course, players without guilds really do need a place to practice without having to worry about being reported to a GM.  It's that important.

I will look into providing space and dummies for you, Tommara.. and for any others on AB who would like to have some access (subject to availability. some conditions may apply. you may need to sign a waiver  do not swallow). 

Please watch for more on this thread   might be a few days.

If you cannot wait, send an ingame mail to Canul, or PM me here.  we are level 80 guild, and proud to be here from the Beta...  kickin' it old school...

Canul

[Safana.]

For bragging purpose only! 

[StealthM0]

Yew just gave me an awesome way to show dem devz how bad we are unbalanced. We need assassin parses on this same wall. I bet it drops quicker with more dps. *)

http://forums.station.sony.com/eq2/...topic_id=446133

[Vuz]

Safanah@Everfrost wrote:

For bragging purpose only! 

I think we should all use the wall to keep comparisons much more balanced, training dummies have a bit more HP, and most everyone knows, Rangers do better on longer fights. I almost used the dummies, but wanted consistency in the tests. Maybe that's just me though.

[Safana.]

Flossie@Nektulos wrote:

I think we should all use the wall to keep comparisons much more balanced, training dummies have a bit more HP, and most everyone knows, Rangers do better on longer fights. I almost used the dummies, but wanted consistency in the tests. Maybe that's just me though.

Orly?!

[Vuz]

Safanah@Everfrost wrote:

Flossie@Nektulos wrote:

I think we should all use the wall to keep comparisons much more balanced, training dummies have a bit more HP, and most everyone knows, Rangers do better on longer fights. I almost used the dummies, but wanted consistency in the tests. Maybe that's just me though.

Orly?!

Lol I guess that aint bad since 10 fights took you 20 minutes. You got Shower of Arrows in on each fight, along with 8 Stealth Fires, and even got 2 Sniper Arrows in, not bad at all. So like, arent we supposed  to use minimal downtime so its more realistic? Rather than 2 minutes between fights. YA RLY.

To sum it up, Im sure we could all do loads better if we waited for our CAs to refresh for each fight.

[Safana.]

My point was, that rangers dont do better on longer fights - we just dont look as good as some other classes on super short fights, because we dont have many big hitters like others.

Anyway, happy now?

P.S.: And i just noticed after posting i was running vitality breach from farming

[Zizzu]

Saf, I suggest posting what gear you have on so that everyone can see. As most people should know, you have probably the best ranger gear in game and you can give most rangers and idea of what to shoot for.

As for the parse, do you think using sniper is a legit test for the real thing? (just a question btw) The cast time is very long and the reuse timer is even longer. Plus, it will skew any parse since it can be use right off the bat without the long casting penalty. I suggest not using it and give us a more pratical parse. That's just me. 

As for longer fights, Saf is correct. We really don't have "big" CAs like Wizards or Assassins and are dependant on our Auto attack to do the most damage. It's a sad state when I'm switching some of my gear to heavy proc items like Reinforced Void Brute Shackle (GVB stuff) to compensate for the gap between myself and other high end dps classes.

[dbmoreland]

One of the nice things about Safanah is that he does not need to post his equipment. His profile is open to anyone to look at (unlike many of the "high end" rangers out there). And yes he has the very best ranger gear available.

What I find interesting about his last parse is the range, from a low of 7K to a high of 14K. Seems the random number generator has a big influence on even the very best rangers out there.

[Safana.]

@Zizzu: Well of course sniper arrow makes the parse better because you can start with it. But if you can use it, why wont you do it? I would not do when i would only link one single parse, but thats why I did 10, you can see the sniper one, where everything was up was the highest and then it went down a bit. From my current gear I wear most of the time, when im running around and doing whatever i only changed void bane bracelet and cloak. I could even use choker, but that would result in longer downtimes for regen.

@Danean: Since I'm at rather low ranged double attack while solo (50%) that hurts sometimes. I used potion and flashstone to get to 58%. And when im unlucky on bp proc and double attacks that results in a parse with only single attacks - even less when something does not crit.

[Zizzu]

Safanah@Everfrost wrote:

@Zizzu: Well of course sniper arrow makes the parse better because you can start with it. But if you can use it, why wont you do it? I would not do when i would only link one single parse, but thats why I did 10, you can see the sniper one, where everything was up was the highest and then it went down a bit. From my current gear I wear most of the time, when im running around and doing whatever i only changed void bane bracelet and cloak. I could even use choker, but that would result in longer downtimes for regen.

I agree using sniper in normal conditiions, but I'm guessing you were using at begining of every test (which would eliminate the cast time since ACT does not start until the first hit)?? No matter I guess.

Yep on the GVB gear also. I do the same.

[dbmoreland]

Safanah@Everfrost wrote:

@Danean: Since I'm at rather low ranged double attack while solo (50%) that hurts sometimes. I used potion and flashstone to get to 58%. And when im unlucky on bp proc and double attacks that results in a parse with only single attacks - even less when something does not crit.

My point exactly, the random number generator effects us all. I have exactly the same issues that result in a wide range for me as well. When the procs, das and crits go off the numbers are good, then they do not, they aren't. And we had nothing to do with it. It was all the RNG. Which is another reason why for any real comparison we need at least 10 samples in order to "smooth out" the RNG "bias".

[StealthM0]

An assassin has contacted me privately and submitted a wall parse using the criteria we have set up. Soon as I have their permission I will post the images. I need to edit out the name of course I don't want any kind of flaming on this. They may even come here themselves. They were going to post it on here, but do not want to be involved in any type of flame.

I will say this. The difference is not much at all. And it actually looks like poison procs less for them according to the wall parse. Soon as I have permission to post it I will edit the name out and put it up to compare.

[EQ2Magroo]

I'm getting about 6.5k parses against the wall at the moment since getting my mythical. That's starting with Sniper Shot and hitting Bloody Reminder ASAP.

My gear is T2 void armor/jewelry and just got the T3 hands (see profile). Ranged Crit is 67% and RDA is 47%.

I don't really have any items that proc damage, but I can see that these would add quite a lot of DPS overall if I was ever lucky enough to get some

There's no way I can get my Quick Shot to proc for anything near 1700 like Safanah though. I'm guessing this shows the benefit of having the Master and a very high crit % ? Or is it that down to something like plus CA dmg buff ?

[Safana.]

Stealthmode@Antonia Bayle wrote:

I will say this. The difference is not much at all. And it actually looks like poison procs less for them according to the wall parse. Soon as I have permission to post it I will edit the name out and put it up to compare.

No intention to flame, but if an assassin can't totally destroy a ranger on kunzar jungle wall parses he should go and play another class, seriously. Assassins can spike so high on short parses and the wall absolutly benefits them.

So it just comes down to how long you wait. Their high DPS is up approx every minute (concealment, fatal followup for example) so it would be up like 5 times out of 10 giving an assassin with my gear like 5 parses with 10-15k DPS if not much more.

Adeyia@Antonia Bayle wrote:

There's no way I can get my Quick Shot to proc for anything near 1700 like Safanah though. I'm guessing this shows the benefit of having the Master and a very high crit % ? Or is it that down to something like plus CA dmg buff ?

Master, ranged crit, ranged crit bonus, combat art damage, base combat art damage.