Consolidation of GU51 items related to swashbucklers.

[Awlis]

another rare poster here.. asking for the effect to be put back to an aoe clicky proc please.. was what was exciting me about gu51.. i didnt see anyone complain about it either.

please please put back the aoe proc.

[CaMCyCaMu]

My first post there. Leave us the clickable blue aoe proc, only this really can personify our class. And give us more and more aoe encounters, thats all what i need as a swashy    Sorry about my bad english  

[OutcastBlade]

Aeralik is prolly laughing at us at this point. LOL I turned the swashies against themselves. LOL! That will show em LOL!

Don't mess with Aeralik LOL!

Aeralik do us a massive favor, and put the AE back on the mythical. Thank you much.

I blew up on Odeius on Flames and then I spent some time rereading all of his input and all of the input of the swashies who I bashed, and I have to offer an apology to everyone here including Odeius. Aeralik every single response you have made to the issues presented has been so off base its scary that you're the guy in charge of balancing us against the other classes when it comes to dps, utility and desirability.

Some of us live and breathe this class. Please consider our input and read it all. Address it all and stop being so vindictive on us.

/roll assassin

/lastname Kozak 

[Raidyen]

Odeius@Guk wrote:

 

1. The change to our Threat transfer is unfair, doesn't directly benefit us and is situational. Every class that had a threat transfer received a replacement that directly benefits them all the time when its up.
   1. Assassins have a proc evade with -8% hate mod they put on themselves.
   2. Wizards and Warlocks have a -% hate mod.
   3. Rangers still have their -% hate mod (ironically its only 5% now so its less then what the assassins get).
   4. Swashbucklers get a hate manipulation ability we cant cast on ourselves and has a 1 minute recast.
2. Swashbucklers have no AE hate decreasers but have been given more AE DPS potential, on top of that swashbucklers have lost another ability that made us desirable and kept us alive on raids. (BTW, Aeralik's own words say that swashbucklers are known for Hate transfer on raids).
3. The temp haste proc (the Spurious Bravado line) still has +5% hate mod on it.
   1. We have no -% hate mod now unless we take the rogue INT line but we always have +5% hate mod yay.
   2. Still no upgrade to this ability so finding the master is almost impossible now.
4. The piercing proc on our epic checks against spell crit, this needs to be changed.
5. Baffle and Hideaway are not sufficient and need to be changed with the hate changes.
   1. Baffle is a 1.6-2.7k threat decrease on a 20s recast timer single target.
   2. Hideaway is a 2.9k -1 hate position on a 1m recast timer single target.
      1. Still no upgrade to this so finding the master is almost impossible now.

Ok i have to assume the Aerlik has the games best interests in mind when he makes changes, so i have some faith that the AoE proc will come back.  Atleast i have to have that mind set or im going to throw something.

That said the rest of the issues that are on this post are dead on.  The key one is the Hate transfer change.  If this was changed into some form of AoE hate maniuplation, even if it is a temp thing it would go a long ways towards solving the first 2 issues that Odeius brought up.

The second major issue is the spell crit problems.  This is an overall game balance issue that needs to be addressed at some point.  I dont expect anything to happen in the short term though.

The minor things like Bravado, Baffle and hideaway are things i am willing to ignore for now if it means we can get some serious time to look at the Swashy Distraction changes.

So please,

1.  change back our Mythical to the AoE.  If you want to add a small debuff to it, thats fine.  If you feel thats going to unbalance the game, and its not worth the trouble to do that in order to make the entire swashy community happy, well then thats your choice, and we will go with it.  But turning it into single target is not the answer.

2.  Please spend a little time looking into the swashy loosing thier hate transfer, and gaining nothing in return.

[Noaani]

Kanolth@Antonia Bayle wrote:

Aeralik is prolly laughing at us at this point. LOL I turned the swashies against themselves. LOL! That will show em LOL!

Don't mess with Aeralik LOL!

IMO a better thing to take from this thread is to not argue so much with your own class, about your own class when changes are on the line.

The easiest way to do this is for some bright person to look at a change, work out what it will do and when, find out how much of an increase it will provide, and post that information in full so that everyone can read it.

No one bothered to do that with your mythical changes, so people whom could not be bothered working it out, or were unable to work it out were posting outright uninformed opinions on it.

Thats never helpful...

[Andric_D]

AE proc + reduced agro control + no ae detaunt isthe problem - The AE itself is fantastic if it was on live now but with our increased agro problems the AE in a multi mob encounter situation is not ideal. The prefered solution is imo to keep the ae - blue clicky or encounter - but give us the controls to manipulate at least our own level of hate to the encounter. As it is after the hate changes and our inate hate building potential agro management will be the major limitation on our use/surviability and overall dps. Lots commenting on the AE obviously havent tried test and the ammount of hate gain with hurricane, proc, ae abil;ities and debuffs is very significant and our test agro management tools are woefully lacking.

[Xivain]

meh i think our ae proc should've never been removed in the first place.. iirc we are meant to be an aoe class hence hurricane..

[Nefariouzx]

Aeralik, plz give us back the AE proc, or at least let us know that we aren't getting it back....

[Katanalla]

Yarr I'm just sitting in my chair hoping to just get aoe proc again.

... Its like gasoline, you complain about 1.44 gasoline, then it goes up to 4.08, you complain even more, then it goes down to 1.56, then back up and settles at 2.02 and people are happy to pay it.... Hint: look at post 2000 election - post 2008 election on that reference. I don't know where I was going with that in all honesty

Anyway, I would be more than happy with just the AoE proc if its either that or having 115ish crit mod in raid all the time hehe. And if it affects your decision you're my favorite Dev named Aeralik

By the way, posts in this thread are odd... Like I'm expecting a group hug within the hour to come out of this.

[Madacius]

First time posting..just wanted to say i hope we can get the proc changed back to a toggled blue aoe...hell..even a permanent blue aoe proc at this point after all the confusion and changes made.  Cant let a few people who have no clue ruin such a good thing for the majority.  Blue aoe ftw = P

[DngrMou]

Madacius wrote:

First time posting..just wanted to say i hope we can get the proc changed back to a toggled blue aoe...hell..even a permanent blue aoe proc at this point after all the confusion and changes made.  Cant let a few people who have no clue ruin such a good thing for the majority.  Blue aoe ftw = P

Same suggestion to you....read through this thread, before you start accusing people of having no clue.

[Mizou]

i have never complained about a not existing temp proc - i just asked why. i was happy when Aeralik changed it to a clicky cause this was always the thoughts of many swashys ive heared. so yeah ok i didnt get an answer why no temp buff but i think from the view of all swashys where ever we are it was totaly worth to get that aoe proc since we are aoe dps with alot single target debuffs.

i still think predator / rogue tso endability should have been switched but i can live with this.

i still think our myth swipe effect needs to be changed to lungbleed and the tso swathy swipe [Removed for Content] also added to lungbleed. (this would make an insane debuff i know but - but !! swipe is still used by brig AND swash)

or tell me why this all is like it is currently

i can aggree with the wants / needs on swarthy line + spurious bravado hateincrease (i just want an answer here: ist it such an insane buff so u need a disadvantage for us on it ? if so i can live with it)

hideaway realy needs an upgrade

thats all i can add here.

Mizou

[Daron]

Aeralik

I will love you long-time if you change it back.

[Morinehtar]

I love the blue AoE proc on our myth, it gave us something really unique and class defining (and we are an AoE class after all). That really had me all exited and biting my nails waiting for GU 51. Aeralik, the majority of the community will really love you if we get the AoE proc back.

[Ansis]

Agree.

All these changes to blue aoe, encounter, no aoe, shows one thing.

Devs know what they want to do with assassins but they have no idea what to do with swashys ...

[BaronVonPitviper]

To Whom it May Concern,

I wish to formally comment on my desire to see the swashy epic weapon upgraded. In particular, I agree with may of the other posters here that the blue area of effect proc is the addition that would be the best for us. I definately do not want a green encounter effect proc. That would be totally undesireable. It's a cool idea to have the DD proc click on or click off depending on your situtation, but in all honesty I dont mind what you decide upon.

As for the temporary buff that some were looking for, I don't mind what it ends up being; as I feel every last little bit of anything helps. Whether it's + MC, +piercing skill, DA, DPS, accuracy, -/+ threat, slow target(s), +power/hp tap, +in combat movement speed, or anything else you guys dream up is fine with me. I'm not a min/max player so anything would be super cool.

In essence, if the development team takes away the blue ae proc it's a deal breaker. That course of action would be viewed as a betrayal between SoE development and the swashbuckler community. It would go against the very essence of our class and pretty much would scream that the development team has some sort of spite towards the class as a whole. Personally, I might even hold a grudge so strongly and use this opportunity to step away from the game and find some other hobbies to persue.

Thank you for reading.

/salute

[Noaani]

TBh I am half expecting Aeralik to jump in and say "HAHA, early April Fools! I didn't change the effect on your mythical, you still have a clicky blue AE proc. Now stop complaining!"

That would just be too funny...

[Drayas]

Yet another swash coming out of the woodwork to add my voice to those that want the AOE clicky back. Please, Aeralik reconsider the latest change.

Sleepyowl the Swashie

[DngrMou]

Suggestion for the SoH, and Swarthy Disorder mess too.  Leave Swarthy Disorder as it is....if you must nerf it, reduce it...don't eliminate it.....if that won't work, (sigh)....make it a de hate effect, instead of a transfer.  Incorporate the New n' Improved Swarthy Disorder effects, (the ones on test), into SoH, and change the hate position swap so that it occurs based on class type of your target, and their position on the hate list relative to the swashbuckler:

If target is fighter, and if target occupies a position on the hate list LOWER than caster....hate position swap.

If target is other than fighter, and if target occupies a position on the hate list HIGHER than caster....hate position swap.

Followed by the hate/de hate proc effects on Swarthy Disorder, (on test).....non conditional, of course.

Reduce the SoH immunity to 60 seconds, and recast to 30 seconds.

[Froed20]

Lol... put it in, take it out... I kinda feel sorry for Aer.  Still,I have to say that the problem that was encountered with the ae effect was remedied by making it a clicky.  I like the ae damage... I just think that there should be an extra component to it like the other mythicals.  Most of them have some kind of class-changing or class-defining feature that brings them up to a new step of awesomeness.  And for the amount of hell you trudge through to get them, it's pretty warrented imho.  Our job as a class (post hate-transfer) is still to dps and debuff.  Our ae dps is a great feature that is reflected in the ae clicky.  The debuff mechanism should be reflected as well.  Since you have recently added a new component to the game in the terms of crit mitigation, maybe it could be a proc that lowers the mob's ability to crit, or lower's their crit damage.  Just another suggestion to toss on the pile of growing suggestions.

[Puppydog]

I have never posted before as well, and am normally not one to complain about development, but in this case I felt the need to post my opinion. The aoe on our mythical really had me excited; now I'm really kinda bummed out. Is there any chance you can change it back to the blue aoe? I have always played a swash as my main, and I'd really hate to see this happen.

As for a "temp" buff. We really dont need one. The blue aoe rocked. Maybe attach an small aoe deagro to the aoe proc? Nothing big, just a little something to help with agro in the face of our transfer going away.

As for swarthy disorder line and SoH, leave em as is for all I care. I dont want to ask for too much and risk being OP. I find a few uses for SoH anyway.

Just as a side note (not asking for any changes on this), with all the tank changes, is there anything happening to the swash in terms of tanking? I occasionally tank instances when tanks are short, just curious to know if that will even be possible now. With all the tanking swash aa options, seems like tanking should be possible. Thanks for reading!

[Raidyen]

I took these ideas from the many posts out there.  I do not claim any of these ideas as my own, Just trying to expand a bit on what the OP started.  I am only going to focus the ideas into the Epic proc, and the Swarthy Distraction lines.  While we do have some other concerns including detaunts, buffs, and spell crit, these are things that are effecting more then just the swashbuckler class, and will have to be dealt with at a later time.

 

Based on what the Dev's have done for the Paladin over the last 2 weeks after they took away thier class defining ability (amends), i would hope swashbucklers would get the same consideration since we also are loosing a class defining ability (swarthy disorder)

 

Solutions to Swashbuckler epic. 

 

1.  Blue AoE that can be toggled on/off  (its current form on test)

 

2.  Blue AoE that can be toggled on/off

Reduce its damage by 5-10%

Add in an AoE threat reduction proc that lasts for 10 seconds, similar to a Baffle effect.  Could be a proc, or could just be when the epic procs the dmg, it also procs a 1500 point threat reduction on anything it hit.  This would make up a little bit for loosing our hate transfer completely, and not getting some form of hate reduction with the fighter changes like all the other scout classes got.

  

3.  Blue AoE that can be toggled on/off

Reduce its damage by 15-20%

Add in an effect that lasts 10 seconds.  The effect could be any of the following.

             Debuff Crit chance %

             Debuff Crit amount %

             Debuff Crit Mitigation %  (not sure if enough raid mobs with crit mit if any would make this worth it)

            Grants a 5-10% increase to all Swashy debuffs.

            Grants a 5-10% increase to Hurricane Procs

 

Solutions to the Swarthy Distraction line. (minor)

 

1. Turn it back into a hate transfer, with a reduced value.
2. Leave it in its current form, but allow it to be cast on the swashbuckler.
3. Make the hate reduction Value higher then that hate gain value.
4. Make it a buff that is always on, with the effect it currently has.  However make it a proc of 2.9 per minute.

 

Swarthy Distraction line, (major)

1.  Change it into a blue AoE snap and hate gain for the tank  

 

(Up to 8 enemies within 15 meters of the caster will change targets to the swashbucklers target for 6 seconds.  OR, hate will increase by X amount to the swashbucklers target.)

 

2. Change it into a temporary hate transfer effect.  20 Second duration, 20% of swashbucklers hate is transferred to target.

 

 

Anyway just thought I would organize things a little more clearly.  Assuming this thread doesnt get locked, lets see if we can get some calm discussions going about real Solutions that the dev team can do fairly easily, and that wont make our class overpowered.  We all know what the problems are at this point.

[jam3]

Drayas wrote:

Yet another swash coming out of the woodwork to add my voice to those that want the AOE clicky back. Please, Aeralik reconsider the latest change.

Sleepyowl the Swashie

i dont want anything esle other than the aoe proc, i dont need some intricate proc with hate for me and someone esle ete etc i just want my AOE

[Magooo]

So Aeralik is a genious. Instead of addressing ANY of the items on the original post, he changes the one thing we had all agreed was a good thing and turned our attention away from the issues.

From reading the post here it appears the plan worked perfectly. He can put the Blue clicky AoE back and we will all be happy to have NOTHING addressed.

Great.

[SantiagoDraco]

Wow, I think I'm late to the party...

I'm blown away.  The blue AOE clickable effect is NOW a single proc of some sort?  With what, crit?  

I know it's painful to go back and forth but how in the heck did this change occur when everyone was pretty much thrilled with you changing it to blue aoe clicky?   Where did things go wrong?

Please change it back and be done with it.  Thanks.

[DngrMou]

Puppydog wrote:

As for swarthy disorder line and SoH, leave em as is for all I care. I dont want to ask for too much and risk being OP. I find a few uses for SoH anyway.

I don't think we need fear coming out of this over powered.  You find little use for SoH in it's current form, most of us, I believe, feel the same way.  Since we're not always going to be grouped with 'real' tanks, what then?  We still need to have some aggro management capabilities, (something that we can use more often than once every two minutes), since there has been no discussion at all if these changes will also be applied to other classes that can tank too.  Most notably us, and brigs.

If I no longer have Swarthy Disorder available to me in it's current form, groups with other than the officially approved tank classes are going to be very slow.  DPS control is going to be rather farcical......hit mob, long pause.  Hit mob, long pause.  Hit mob, cast SD, (woo hoo!), hit mob three times, long pause.  Let's just hope we don't also have an assassin in the group, or any serious caster dps.

This is supposed to be a fighter rebalancing, they should focus their changes where they're needed...on fighters.  When I get a flat tire, I don't blame the other 3 perfectly fine tires, and change them, I change the flat one.

[Emerix]

The only buff effect i would like is flurry.

I have 80+ crit self buffed with mostly instance gear ..100+ haste anyway as a swashy and with enough adorns DPS is at 50+ aswell. The only thing that would really help would be flurry really.

Since we won't get that anyway please do give us the AE back.

toggle-able Blue AE Proc is what i would love personally.

That would actually bring swashys back to where we were in EOF . Awesome in AE fights. The only scout class able to put out a lot of AE dps. The warlock of scouts.

I like that thought.

[Daron]

Aeralik, you feel like responding anytime this year??

[HanssDam]

Daron@Najena wrote:

Aeralik, you feel like responding anytime this year??

Devs have a workfree weekend too, you know?

[Ofhel]

When I first saw the changes to our mythical I was pretty pleased. A blue aoe proc, something that I thought were befitting to a swashie; dashing about, striking your opponents all around you. A small chance that you'd get some unwanted adds in a few rare cases, but nothing that couldnt be avoided if you were carefull.

Next thing I saw it changed to a green aoe; a change that was very disapointing indeed...

Luckily, Aeralik listened to peoples concerns about this and changed it back to blue, and made it toggable. Perfect, couldn't be better.

Now I see to my great disapointment that it have been changed to a single taget DD & MC, and for no apearant good reason... Please change it back to toggeable blue aoe, I was happy with that, and i suspect quite a few others were as well.