Brawler Change - Crane Twirl - Page 3

Gungo · 01-15-2009, 05:18 PM

jrolla777 wrote:

i really dont see why brawlers dont get 40%. Guardians are single target tanks, have larger survivabilty than us, yet get 40%

Guardians also have the same auto atk damage as brawlers.The funny thing is paladins who are single target tanks have higher auto atk damage then both brawlers or guards with tso aa's and they also get 40%.

Assassins heck are single target dps and get higher aoe auto atk then brawlers.

Mephetic · 01-17-2009, 12:57 AM

Wow, on test they upgraded Crane Twirl a whopping 1% per aa. Please tell me this is a joke, 24% is still not 40%.......

circusgirl · 01-17-2009, 01:45 AM

Eeeeesh. 24% is better than nothing, but still--why are we being treated differently from the other tanks? I really don't understand why Aerelik can't just comment here and tell us the REASON behind the disparity brawlers, warriors, and crusaders in our AE autoattack, DA, and Crit.

Prodigus · 01-17-2009, 04:23 AM

Any Dev care to comment?

/sigh

Ocello · 01-17-2009, 05:39 AM

/throws hat in

16% AoE auto attack is a very mean joke. WE ARE FIGHTERS. Kinda.

Noaani · 01-17-2009, 08:54 AM

My assumtion with this achievement was that it was set lower than other fighters in order to keep Crane Flock as a viability.

If brawlers had 40% AE attack, having a 16 second buff every 3 minutes that gives 100% is kind of weak, leaving only the DA on Crane Flock.

I can see why it would be made from a developer standpoint, even if I think its a rather poor reason. If this is the case, I say drop it back down to 16% and add a 0.25% flurry chance per point.

Illine · 01-17-2009, 09:45 AM

yeah but then why brawlers have a lower crit ù too? because of the int line end AA???

Huntress Jellica · 01-17-2009, 02:00 PM

Vinka@Antonia Bayle wrote:

Eeeeesh. 24% is better than nothing, but still--why are we being treated differently from the other tanks? I really don't understand why Aerelik can't just comment here and tell us the REASON behind the disparity brawlers, warriors, and crusaders in our AE autoattack, DA, and Crit.

Cynical, easy answer: Because this isn't a thread about assassins. If the thread was centered on his pet class, you bet he'd be in here

More realistic and likely reason: Um.. he's busy.. or maybe because he's making assassins better? I can't really think of a good reason, to be honest! =P

Panzzzzer · 01-17-2009, 05:00 PM

The recent change upping the AoEatk from 16 to 24% is a step in the right direction, but is clearly not enough considering every other fighter classes have 40%... I still can't understand the logic in giving us so little AoEatk...Please give us either 4 or 5% per point so that wis line still stands as a viable option (i already don't take that line in raids anymore tbh, so that'd affect more my group gameplay and you know very well that brawlers are gonna need some helps on this topic)

Dorieon · 01-18-2009, 01:42 PM

Noaani wrote:

My assumtion with this achievement was that it was set lower than other fighters in order to keep Crane Flock as a viability.
If brawlers had 40% AE attack, having a 16 second buff every 3 minutes that gives 100% is kind of weak, leaving only the DA on Crane Flock.
I can see why it would be made from a developer standpoint, even if I think its a rather poor reason. If this is the case, I say drop it back down to 16% and add a 0.25% flurry chance per point.

This is actually an interesting point, but I hope this isn't why we are being shorted.

Crane Twirl has always been underpowered. And now that we finally get it changed to AE auto attack like all the other fighters, they are trying to give us less (alot less) than the 4 other tanks.

I understand that some (maybe alot) of brawlers will stop taking Crane Flock if they had 40% AE auto. However, that reasoning is very poor since there are several end line abilities for many different classes that just aren't part of the 'cookie cutter' aa build because they don't maximize anything. Raiders and other min/maxers will probably skip over Crane Flock (alot of us already are anyway) but alot of the MC and Legendary geared brawlers would probably still take it to help with agro or burst dps that the DA would give them. I could be wrong on that, but I don't think so. I would rather they change Crane Flock to something else and make our AE auto equal to plate tanks.

I think this thread will continue (and people might say we are whining) until Aeralik or someone else posts the reasoning behind giving us less AE auto than plate tanks. Maybe there is a really good reason, but we won't know unless he tells us. And until then all we can do is /feedback and keep arguing our case.

Valenx · 01-18-2009, 02:00 PM

Why not just keep the DMG proc along with the 24% AE Auto atk. So when we auto atk it also has that DMG attatched to it giving us more dps.

circusgirl · 01-18-2009, 07:33 PM

I just don't get it. All we're asking for is to have the same thing every other tank has for the same number of points. Why is the questing and work monks put into gaining AA points worth any less than the work a Guardian, SK, pally, or zerker does for their AA?

Derang · 01-18-2009, 11:48 PM

You know...I just had to throw this random post on here...since devs dont read our feedbacks, lawl and ae auto attack isnt going to get any better, moving on to other aa's?

We are supposed to be dps tanks and well the gods of dual wielding imo...I remember a certain aa in TSO "Dirges" got...

"Dual Wield Mastery" which increased the base dmg of auto attack, mmmm who thinks that should be in place of "Combination" the pos monk AA...or rather all of the pos monk AA's

I vote yes! - 2.5 Delay ftl

Panzzzzer · 01-18-2009, 11:54 PM

Valenx@Nagafen wrote:

Why not just keep the DMG proc along with the 24% AE Auto atk. So when we auto atk it also has that DMG attatched to it giving us more dps.

I actually like this idea, they'd let Crane Twirl as it is currently on live servers, but instead of a 16s buff of Crane folk, we'd get permanent 24% aoeatk buff. At least that way the proc would give a logic to us having less aoeatk. Cause right now i can't see no logic at all.............................

Orthureon · 01-19-2009, 03:24 AM

Easy solution, make it 30% AE Autoattack, with damage proc Crane Twirl currently has. And the endline "Crane Flock", make it add 50% AE Autoattack, 50% DA and 25% Flurry Chance.

Junaru · 01-19-2009, 11:34 AM

You guys roll over too easy. This is completely unexceptable change. There is ZERO reason why the Brawlers are getting the shaft and I for one refuse to roll over and be happy they upped it from 16% to 24%.

It's time we started acting like the consumer and not the employee. I for one have been playing this game since day one and have two accounts. The game is starting to show it's age and SOE needs to give reasons to stay with EQ2 and with this kind of treatment I just don't see it. Aion looks like a pretty nice game. Maybe SOE has finally pushed too hard. Maybe it's time SOE learned to treat their "customers" better. Give us 40% or give us a legit reason why. Anything less is just another SOE slap in the face.

mr23sgte · 01-19-2009, 12:53 PM

Brawler's are the DPS Tanks and get less DA, crit and AE auto than every other fighter.....makes perfect sense!

Lets look at the Monk AA's too, while we are @ "adjusting"

Morrolan V · 01-19-2009, 02:24 PM

This is one where I really think we need some explanation of the thinking. On it's face, it looks completely unfair -- it's been said before and should continue to be said -- the nature of mitigation vs avoidance means that plate tanks will always have a significant survivability advantage against top end content. Brawlers should therefore have a significant DPS advantage, and WE DO NOT. The current state of the AA changes will only widen the gap. Please explain this, Aeralik.

Caethre · 01-19-2009, 02:56 PM

On the face of it, the difference between 40% for crusaders and warriors vs just 24% for brawlers does indeed seem imbalanced and even unfair...

An explanation of the rationale behind this seemingly poor balance, especially given brawlers always traditionally having the lesser survivability and the greater DPS, would be appreciated...

circusgirl · 01-19-2009, 11:27 PM

Its bad enough no one with a red name ever bothers to set foot in our forums. Aerelik in the past few weeks has responded to concerns raised by Shadowknights, Guardians, Paladins, even Troubs...but there has been absolutely NOTHING, not a word to us. Please, just make an effort to engage us in the dialogue. Let us know what the reasoning behind this is, because here's a news flash--we don't get it. We don't understand why we only get 24%. If you gave us a reason, like "Oh, its because of Crane Flock" then we'll be happy to share feedback on how to make it comparable to Warrior/Crusador AAs. We want to help test, we want to give good feedback, and we want the classes to be balanced. Let us help! Just fricken TALK to us, because we feel very much ignored.

Noaani · 01-20-2009, 12:26 AM

Junaru wrote:

It's time we started acting like the consumer and not the employee. I for one have been playing this game since day one and have two accounts. The game is starting to show it's age and SOE needs to give reasons to stay with EQ2 and with this kind of treatment I just don't see it. Aion looks like a pretty nice game. Maybe SOE has finally pushed too hard. Maybe it's time SOE learned to treat their "customers" better. Give us 40% or give us a legit reason why. Anything less is just another SOE slap in the face.

If your willing to quit the game over 16% DA, your going to quit the game reguardless.

Posts like this will only prevent them giving a reason, not encourage it.

Sir Longsword · 01-20-2009, 10:27 AM

Noaani wrote:

Junaru wrote:
It's time we started acting like the consumer and not the employee. I for one have been playing this game since day one and have two accounts. The game is starting to show it's age and SOE needs to give reasons to stay with EQ2 and with this kind of treatment I just don't see it. Aion looks like a pretty nice game. Maybe SOE has finally pushed too hard. Maybe it's time SOE learned to treat their "customers" better. Give us 40% or give us a legit reason why. Anything less is just another SOE slap in the face.
If your willing to quit the game over 16% DA, your going to quit the game reguardless.
Posts like this will only prevent them giving a reason, not encourage it.

Um, asking nice hasn't worked either.

Junaru · 01-20-2009, 10:56 AM

Noaani wrote:

Junaru wrote:
It's time we started acting like the consumer and not the employee. I for one have been playing this game since day one and have two accounts. The game is starting to show it's age and SOE needs to give reasons to stay with EQ2 and with this kind of treatment I just don't see it. Aion looks like a pretty nice game. Maybe SOE has finally pushed too hard. Maybe it's time SOE learned to treat their "customers" better. Give us 40% or give us a legit reason why. Anything less is just another SOE slap in the face.
If your willing to quit the game over 16% DA, your going to quit the game reguardless.
Posts like this will only prevent them giving a reason, not encourage it.

You need to read my post again. I never said I would quit cause of the weak change. I said as a customer I feel the lack or responce and the unjustified changes would be why I would quit. I've been playing the game since day one without a single laps and the game is starting to show it's age to me. So I'm sure there are a lot of us riding on the edge and the last thing SOE needs to do is ignore their customers.

Do a search as to the one thing people think a company has to do to get/keep their business. It's customer service. We don't require loads of time just a few words or a change to AoE autoattack. For my $30.00 a month I think I deserve that much as do everyone else posting in here looking for answers.

Appollyon · 01-20-2009, 04:51 PM

Junaru wrote:

Noaani wrote:
Junaru wrote:
It's time we started acting like the consumer and not the employee. I for one have been playing this game since day one and have two accounts. The game is starting to show it's age and SOE needs to give reasons to stay with EQ2 and with this kind of treatment I just don't see it. Aion looks like a pretty nice game. Maybe SOE has finally pushed too hard. Maybe it's time SOE learned to treat their "customers" better. Give us 40% or give us a legit reason why. Anything less is just another SOE slap in the face.
If your willing to quit the game over 16% DA, your going to quit the game reguardless.
Posts like this will only prevent them giving a reason, not encourage it.
You need to read my post again. I never said I would quit cause of the weak change. I said as a customer I feel the lack or responce and the unjustified changes would be why I would quit. I've been playing the game since day one without a single laps and the game is starting to show it's age to me. So I'm sure there are a lot of us riding on the edge and the last thing SOE needs to do is ignore their customers.
Do a search as to the one thing people think a company has to do to get/keep their business. It's customer service. We don't require loads of time just a few words or a change to AoE autoattack. For my $30.00 a month I think I deserve that much as do everyone else posting in here looking for answers.

I am in the same boat as you. I have played since day one and I think it’s awful that brawlers can't get a simple fix, and it seems we get ignored for the most part. We are suppose to be the DPS tanks but we get out DPSed by some of the plate tanks and out tanked by some rogues. How are we supposed to compete as viable tanks if we have less survivability and DPS? When I chose to play a monk was because I wanted to do some DPS and be able to tank if I wanted. Right now monks don’t have the survivability that plate tanks have or do enough DPS to make up for that less survivability. I am not at max level but I have been out DPSed by SK's and Zerkers. I know how to play my class (not spamming but timing CA's between Auto Attack ect...) I just don’t feel that’s right and deserves an explanation.

Valenx · 01-21-2009, 09:34 PM

the sad reality about the brawler class is we really serve 0 purpose in this game. So what we get a semi-ok raidwide buff. The bruiser raidwide got a increase by adding the increase to CA dmg while the monk gets nerfed. However, both are easily replaceable in a raid by a true DPS class. 1 DPS class will out parse the measly buff our raidwides gives and the DPS we put out by a truck load. Now I wish I could say that our DPS makes up for it, but that is just not the case.

SOE then has the bright idea to take away a useless DMG proc (crane twrill) and make it an even more useless AE autoatk buff. Ok, so monks get a DMg proc on their OFF stance now...crickets...while the bruiser gets nothing. No self DPS buff, nothing.

I play a monk on a PVP server, so I am always looking for optimum speccing for PVP and PVE alike. With this new change to crane twril this is actually a nerf big time. If I am 1v1 with someone what is a 24% AE autoatk going to do for me in that situation, nothing except pull aggro that I then have to use feign on. What a pain. That is why I have said to just merge the 24% AE with the DMG proc. ( Actually the 24% needs to be more like 35-45% IMHO )

To the DEVS. We know you are kindof paying attention, but seriously increasing 16% to 24% is really a slap in the face. Keep our DMG proc on it to go off everytime we AE autoatk. This not only increases our DPS in PVE, but it also still has a purpose in PVP.

jrolla777 · 01-21-2009, 09:53 PM

I was talking to Obama earlier and he said brawlers should have the same aoe autoattack % at the other 2 archetypes. He said it was despicable that brawlers are treated liek 2nd class citizens.

Turb · 01-22-2009, 10:40 AM

I'm pleased the devs have done *something* by giving us brawlers 24% not 16%.

But the argument is about parity with the plate tank classes. Still 16% to go.

As for Crane Flock, well, I don't spec it anyway for the time it's available, but it can be tweaked in other ways as suggested by previous posters. I would personally rather see the reuse timer on it lowered, to make it a viable choice. As it is I'm at 75%+ DA a lot of the time so it's value is marginal at best.

mr23sgte · 01-22-2009, 11:33 AM

Valenx@Nagafen wrote:

the sad reality about the brawler class is we really serve 0 purpose in this game. So what we get a semi-ok raidwide buff. The bruiser raidwide got a increase by adding the increase to CA dmg while the monk gets nerfed. However, both are easily replaceable in a raid by a true DPS class. 1 DPS class will out parse the measly buff our raidwides gives and the DPS we put out by a truck load. Now I wish I could say that our DPS makes up for it, but that is just not the case.
SOE then has the bright idea to take away a useless DMG proc (crane twrill) and make it an even more useless AE autoatk buff. Ok, so monks get a DMg proc on their OFF stance now...crickets...while the bruiser gets nothing. No self DPS buff, nothing.
I play a monk on a PVP server, so I am always looking for optimum speccing for PVP and PVE alike. With this new change to crane twril this is actually a nerf big time. If I am 1v1 with someone what is a 24% AE autoatk going to do for me in that situation, nothing except pull aggro that I then have to use feign on. What a pain. That is why I have said to just merge the 24% AE with the DMG proc. ( Actually the 24% needs to be more like 35-45% IMHO )
To the DEVS. We know you are kindof paying attention, but seriously increasing 16% to 24% is really a slap in the face. Keep our DMG proc on it to go off everytime we AE autoatk. This not only increases our DPS in PVE, but it also still has a purpose in PVP.

Yep thats pretty much how I feel.

ShinGoku · 01-22-2009, 12:38 PM

Hereo@Unrest wrote:

Valenx@Nagafen wrote:
the sad reality about the brawler class is we really serve 0 purpose in this game. So what we get a semi-ok raidwide buff. The bruiser raidwide got a increase by adding the increase to CA dmg while the monk gets nerfed. However, both are easily replaceable in a raid by a true DPS class. 1 DPS class will out parse the measly buff our raidwides gives and the DPS we put out by a truck load. Now I wish I could say that our DPS makes up for it, but that is just not the case.
SOE then has the bright idea to take away a useless DMG proc (crane twrill) and make it an even more useless AE autoatk buff. Ok, so monks get a DMg proc on their OFF stance now...crickets...while the bruiser gets nothing. No self DPS buff, nothing.
I play a monk on a PVP server, so I am always looking for optimum speccing for PVP and PVE alike. With this new change to crane twril this is actually a nerf big time. If I am 1v1 with someone what is a 24% AE autoatk going to do for me in that situation, nothing except pull aggro that I then have to use feign on. What a pain. That is why I have said to just merge the 24% AE with the DMG proc. ( Actually the 24% needs to be more like 35-45% IMHO )
To the DEVS. We know you are kindof paying attention, but seriously increasing 16% to 24% is really a slap in the face. Keep our DMG proc on it to go off everytime we AE autoatk. This not only increases our DPS in PVE, but it also still has a purpose in PVP.
Yep thats pretty much how I feel.

Same here really, just totally disheartened... /doh

Dorieon · 01-22-2009, 02:40 PM

Ok seriously, can we please get a response on this 24% AE auto attack? In our opinions its too low and should be 40% like all the plate tanks. I mean, we share the same auto attack table, AE auto only procs off of the main hand weapon, we hit more often, and they hit harder so it all seems pretty even to me. All we are asking for is a level playing field with plate tanks, or some solid reasoning why it won't work. Obviously none of us understand the mechanics well enough or we are unaware of an upcoming change that would make giving us 40% AE auto overpowered.

Its kind of sad really that we started this thread on 1/7/09 and have been asking for some kind of a response on why our AE auto attack is drastically less but have not heard from a single dev.

This thread however... http://forums.station.sony.com/eq2/...topic_id=441521 ....was started yesterday and has already had three replies from Aeralik.

01-15-2009, 05:18 PM	#61
Gungo Loremaster Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: Crushbone Posts: 5,378	jrolla777 wrote: i really dont see why brawlers dont get 40%. Guardians are single target tanks, have larger survivabilty than us, yet get 40% Guardians also have the same auto atk damage as brawlers.The funny thing is paladins who are single target tanks have higher auto atk damage then both brawlers or guards with tso aa's and they also get 40%. Assassins heck are single target dps and get higher aoe auto atk then brawlers.

01-17-2009, 12:57 AM	#62
Mephetic Server: Permafrost Guild: Defiance Rank: Member Loremaster Join Date: Jan 2008 Posts: 47	Wow, on test they upgraded Crane Twirl a whopping 1% per aa. Please tell me this is a joke, 24% is still not 40%....... __________________

01-17-2009, 04:23 AM	#64
Prodigus Loremaster Join Date: Nov 2004 Location: Florida Posts: 278	Any Dev care to comment? /sigh __________________ More info then you probably care to know lol

01-17-2009, 08:54 AM	#66
Noaani Loremaster Join Date: Mar 2005 Posts: 6,077	My assumtion with this achievement was that it was set lower than other fighters in order to keep Crane Flock as a viability. If brawlers had 40% AE attack, having a 16 second buff every 3 minutes that gives 100% is kind of weak, leaving only the DA on Crane Flock. I can see why it would be made from a developer standpoint, even if I think its a rather poor reason. If this is the case, I say drop it back down to 16% and add a 0.25% flurry chance per point. __________________ The superior man knows what is right. The inferior man knows what will sell. Confucius

01-17-2009, 02:00 PM	#68
Huntress Jellica Loremaster Join Date: Sep 2005 Posts: 309	Vinka@Antonia Bayle wrote: Eeeeesh. 24% is better than nothing, but still--why are we being treated differently from the other tanks? I really don't understand why Aerelik can't just comment here and tell us the REASON behind the disparity brawlers, warriors, and crusaders in our AE autoattack, DA, and Crit. Cynical, easy answer: Because this isn't a thread about assassins. If the thread was centered on his pet class, you bet he'd be in here More realistic and likely reason: Um.. he's busy.. or maybe because he's making assassins better? I can't really think of a good reason, to be honest! =P __________________ This is a filler signature until my boyfriend makes me a better one!

01-17-2009, 01:45 AM	#63
circusgirl Loremaster Join Date: Dec 2004 Posts: 1,424	Eeeeesh. 24% is better than nothing, but still--why are we being treated differently from the other tanks? I really don't understand why Aerelik can't just comment here and tell us the REASON behind the disparity brawlers, warriors, and crusaders in our AE autoattack, DA, and Crit.

01-17-2009, 05:39 AM	#65
Ocello Loremaster Join Date: Mar 2007 Location: East TN Posts: 464	/throws hat in 16% AoE auto attack is a very mean joke. WE ARE FIGHTERS. Kinda.

01-17-2009, 09:45 AM	#67
Illine Server: Storms Guild: Apocalypse Rank: Honorifique Loremaster Join Date: Feb 2005 Location: storms Posts: 870	yeah but then why brawlers have a lower crit ù too? because of the int line end AA???

01-17-2009, 05:00 PM	#69
Panzzzzer Loremaster Join Date: Sep 2005 Posts: 72	The recent change upping the AoEatk from 16 to 24% is a step in the right direction, but is clearly not enough considering every other fighter classes have 40%... I still can't understand the logic in giving us so little AoEatk...Please give us either 4 or 5% per point so that wis line still stands as a viable option (i already don't take that line in raids anymore tbh, so that'd affect more my group gameplay and you know very well that brawlers are gonna need some helps on this topic) __________________

01-18-2009, 01:42 PM	#70
Dorieon Server: Guk Guild: Despair Rank: Member Loremaster Join Date: Jun 2007 Posts: 171	Noaani wrote: My assumtion with this achievement was that it was set lower than other fighters in order to keep Crane Flock as a viability. If brawlers had 40% AE attack, having a 16 second buff every 3 minutes that gives 100% is kind of weak, leaving only the DA on Crane Flock. I can see why it would be made from a developer standpoint, even if I think its a rather poor reason. If this is the case, I say drop it back down to 16% and add a 0.25% flurry chance per point. This is actually an interesting point, but I hope this isn't why we are being shorted. Crane Twirl has always been underpowered. And now that we finally get it changed to AE auto attack like all the other fighters, they are trying to give us less (alot less) than the 4 other tanks. I understand that some (maybe alot) of brawlers will stop taking Crane Flock if they had 40% AE auto. However, that reasoning is very poor since there are several end line abilities for many different classes that just aren't part of the 'cookie cutter' aa build because they don't maximize anything. Raiders and other min/maxers will probably skip over Crane Flock (alot of us already are anyway) but alot of the MC and Legendary geared brawlers would probably still take it to help with agro or burst dps that the DA would give them. I could be wrong on that, but I don't think so. I would rather they change Crane Flock to something else and make our AE auto equal to plate tanks. I think this thread will continue (and people might say we are whining) until Aeralik or someone else posts the reasoning behind giving us less AE auto than plate tanks. Maybe there is a really good reason, but we won't know unless he tells us. And until then all we can do is /feedback and keep arguing our case.

01-18-2009, 02:00 PM	#71
Valenx Server: Nagafen Loremaster Join Date: Apr 2007 Posts: 45	Why not just keep the DMG proc along with the 24% AE Auto atk. So when we auto atk it also has that DMG attatched to it giving us more dps.

01-18-2009, 07:33 PM	#72
circusgirl Loremaster Join Date: Dec 2004 Posts: 1,424	I just don't get it. All we're asking for is to have the same thing every other tank has for the same number of points. Why is the questing and work monks put into gaining AA points worth any less than the work a Guardian, SK, pally, or zerker does for their AA?

01-18-2009, 11:48 PM	#73
Derang General Join Date: Feb 2008 Posts: 79	You know...I just had to throw this random post on here...since devs dont read our feedbacks, lawl and ae auto attack isnt going to get any better, moving on to other aa's? We are supposed to be dps tanks and well the gods of dual wielding imo...I remember a certain aa in TSO "Dirges" got... "Dual Wield Mastery" which increased the base dmg of auto attack, mmmm who thinks that should be in place of "Combination" the pos monk AA...or rather all of the pos monk AA's I vote yes! - 2.5 Delay ftl

01-18-2009, 11:54 PM	#74
Panzzzzer Loremaster Join Date: Sep 2005 Posts: 72	Valenx@Nagafen wrote: Why not just keep the DMG proc along with the 24% AE Auto atk. So when we auto atk it also has that DMG attatched to it giving us more dps. I actually like this idea, they'd let Crane Twirl as it is currently on live servers, but instead of a 16s buff of Crane folk, we'd get permanent 24% aoeatk buff. At least that way the proc would give a logic to us having less aoeatk. Cause right now i can't see no logic at all............................. __________________

01-19-2009, 03:24 AM	#75
Orthureon Loremaster Join Date: Jan 2006 Posts: 1,073	Easy solution, make it 30% AE Autoattack, with damage proc Crane Twirl currently has. And the endline "Crane Flock", make it add 50% AE Autoattack, 50% DA and 25% Flurry Chance. __________________ NAGAFEN Server DAEMIEN 92 Shadowknight XEOS 92 Ranger EXILON 92 Inquisitor.

01-19-2009, 11:34 AM	#76
Junaru Loremaster Join Date: Nov 2004 Posts: 1,471	You guys roll over too easy. This is completely unexceptable change. There is ZERO reason why the Brawlers are getting the shaft and I for one refuse to roll over and be happy they upped it from 16% to 24%. It's time we started acting like the consumer and not the employee. I for one have been playing this game since day one and have two accounts. The game is starting to show it's age and SOE needs to give reasons to stay with EQ2 and with this kind of treatment I just don't see it. Aion looks like a pretty nice game. Maybe SOE has finally pushed too hard. Maybe it's time SOE learned to treat their "customers" better. Give us 40% or give us a legit reason why. Anything less is just another SOE slap in the face. __________________

01-19-2009, 12:53 PM	#77
mr23sgte Loremaster Join Date: Nov 2004 Location: Florida Posts: 450	Brawler's are the DPS Tanks and get less DA, crit and AE auto than every other fighter.....makes perfect sense! Lets look at the Monk AA's too, while we are @ "adjusting"

01-19-2009, 02:24 PM	#78
Morrolan V Loremaster Join Date: Dec 2004 Posts: 624	This is one where I really think we need some explanation of the thinking. On it's face, it looks completely unfair -- it's been said before and should continue to be said -- the nature of mitigation vs avoidance means that plate tanks will always have a significant survivability advantage against top end content. Brawlers should therefore have a significant DPS advantage, and WE DO NOT. The current state of the AA changes will only widen the gap. Please explain this, Aeralik.

01-19-2009, 02:56 PM	#79
Caethre Loremaster Join Date: Dec 2004 Posts: 1,167	On the face of it, the difference between 40% for crusaders and warriors vs just 24% for brawlers does indeed seem imbalanced and even unfair... An explanation of the rationale behind this seemingly poor balance, especially given brawlers always traditionally having the lesser survivability and the greater DPS, would be appreciated... __________________ Countess Felishanna Silorielenwe [92/320 Templar\|92 Sage](Koada`Dal) Lady Lorianna Ardinwena [92/320 Monk\|92 Carpenter](Koada`Dal) Lady Suzanna Narinyaare [92/320 Conjuror\|92 Woodworker](Koada`Dal) Lady Annaelisa Lorinfinlinde [92/320 Fury\|92 Tailor](Koada`Dal) Lady Silvianna [92/320 Illusionist\|92 Jeweler](Koada`Dal) Jennianna [92/320 Dirge\|92 Weaponsmith](Koada`Dal) Aurielle [92/320 Wizard\|92 Alchemist](Koada`Dal) Valerianna [92/320 Guardian\|92 Armourer](Koada`Dal) Sarahanna [92/320 Swashbuckler\|92 Provisioner](Koada`Dal) Katherianna [92/286 Beserker\|92 Sage](Koada`Dal) Guildleader of The True Path - A roleplay-based guild (level 77) on Antonia Bayle

01-19-2009, 11:27 PM	#80
circusgirl Loremaster Join Date: Dec 2004 Posts: 1,424	Its bad enough no one with a red name ever bothers to set foot in our forums. Aerelik in the past few weeks has responded to concerns raised by Shadowknights, Guardians, Paladins, even Troubs...but there has been absolutely NOTHING, not a word to us. Please, just make an effort to engage us in the dialogue. Let us know what the reasoning behind this is, because here's a news flash--we don't get it. We don't understand why we only get 24%. If you gave us a reason, like "Oh, its because of Crane Flock" then we'll be happy to share feedback on how to make it comparable to Warrior/Crusador AAs. We want to help test, we want to give good feedback, and we want the classes to be balanced. Let us help! Just fricken TALK to us, because we feel very much ignored.

01-20-2009, 12:26 AM	#81
Noaani Loremaster Join Date: Mar 2005 Posts: 6,077	Junaru wrote: It's time we started acting like the consumer and not the employee. I for one have been playing this game since day one and have two accounts. The game is starting to show it's age and SOE needs to give reasons to stay with EQ2 and with this kind of treatment I just don't see it. Aion looks like a pretty nice game. Maybe SOE has finally pushed too hard. Maybe it's time SOE learned to treat their "customers" better. Give us 40% or give us a legit reason why. Anything less is just another SOE slap in the face. If your willing to quit the game over 16% DA, your going to quit the game reguardless. Posts like this will only prevent them giving a reason, not encourage it. __________________ The superior man knows what is right. The inferior man knows what will sell. Confucius

01-20-2009, 10:27 AM	#82
Sir Longsword Loremaster Join Date: Nov 2004 Posts: 181	Noaani wrote: Junaru wrote: It's time we started acting like the consumer and not the employee. I for one have been playing this game since day one and have two accounts. The game is starting to show it's age and SOE needs to give reasons to stay with EQ2 and with this kind of treatment I just don't see it. Aion looks like a pretty nice game. Maybe SOE has finally pushed too hard. Maybe it's time SOE learned to treat their "customers" better. Give us 40% or give us a legit reason why. Anything less is just another SOE slap in the face. If your willing to quit the game over 16% DA, your going to quit the game reguardless. Posts like this will only prevent them giving a reason, not encourage it. Um, asking nice hasn't worked either. __________________ 81 Paladin 88 Guardian 85 Assassin 84 Illusionist 80 Warlock 80 Templar Blackburrow server

01-20-2009, 10:56 AM	#83
Junaru Loremaster Join Date: Nov 2004 Posts: 1,471	Noaani wrote: Junaru wrote: It's time we started acting like the consumer and not the employee. I for one have been playing this game since day one and have two accounts. The game is starting to show it's age and SOE needs to give reasons to stay with EQ2 and with this kind of treatment I just don't see it. Aion looks like a pretty nice game. Maybe SOE has finally pushed too hard. Maybe it's time SOE learned to treat their "customers" better. Give us 40% or give us a legit reason why. Anything less is just another SOE slap in the face. If your willing to quit the game over 16% DA, your going to quit the game reguardless. Posts like this will only prevent them giving a reason, not encourage it. You need to read my post again. I never said I would quit cause of the weak change. I said as a customer I feel the lack or responce and the unjustified changes would be why I would quit. I've been playing the game since day one without a single laps and the game is starting to show it's age to me. So I'm sure there are a lot of us riding on the edge and the last thing SOE needs to do is ignore their customers. Do a search as to the one thing people think a company has to do to get/keep their business. It's customer service. We don't require loads of time just a few words or a change to AoE autoattack. For my $30.00 a month I think I deserve that much as do everyone else posting in here looking for answers. __________________

01-20-2009, 04:51 PM	#84
Appollyon Loremaster Join Date: Nov 2004 Posts: 22	Junaru wrote: Noaani wrote: Junaru wrote: It's time we started acting like the consumer and not the employee. I for one have been playing this game since day one and have two accounts. The game is starting to show it's age and SOE needs to give reasons to stay with EQ2 and with this kind of treatment I just don't see it. Aion looks like a pretty nice game. Maybe SOE has finally pushed too hard. Maybe it's time SOE learned to treat their "customers" better. Give us 40% or give us a legit reason why. Anything less is just another SOE slap in the face. If your willing to quit the game over 16% DA, your going to quit the game reguardless. Posts like this will only prevent them giving a reason, not encourage it. You need to read my post again. I never said I would quit cause of the weak change. I said as a customer I feel the lack or responce and the unjustified changes would be why I would quit. I've been playing the game since day one without a single laps and the game is starting to show it's age to me. So I'm sure there are a lot of us riding on the edge and the last thing SOE needs to do is ignore their customers. Do a search as to the one thing people think a company has to do to get/keep their business. It's customer service. We don't require loads of time just a few words or a change to AoE autoattack. For my $30.00 a month I think I deserve that much as do everyone else posting in here looking for answers. I am in the same boat as you. I have played since day one and I think it’s awful that brawlers can't get a simple fix, and it seems we get ignored for the most part. We are suppose to be the DPS tanks but we get out DPSed by some of the plate tanks and out tanked by some rogues. How are we supposed to compete as viable tanks if we have less survivability and DPS? When I chose to play a monk was because I wanted to do some DPS and be able to tank if I wanted. Right now monks don’t have the survivability that plate tanks have or do enough DPS to make up for that less survivability. I am not at max level but I have been out DPSed by SK's and Zerkers. I know how to play my class (not spamming but timing CA's between Auto Attack ect...) I just don’t feel that’s right and deserves an explanation.

01-21-2009, 09:34 PM	#85
Valenx Server: Nagafen Loremaster Join Date: Apr 2007 Posts: 45	the sad reality about the brawler class is we really serve 0 purpose in this game. So what we get a semi-ok raidwide buff. The bruiser raidwide got a increase by adding the increase to CA dmg while the monk gets nerfed. However, both are easily replaceable in a raid by a true DPS class. 1 DPS class will out parse the measly buff our raidwides gives and the DPS we put out by a truck load. Now I wish I could say that our DPS makes up for it, but that is just not the case. SOE then has the bright idea to take away a useless DMG proc (crane twrill) and make it an even more useless AE autoatk buff. Ok, so monks get a DMg proc on their OFF stance now...crickets...while the bruiser gets nothing. No self DPS buff, nothing. I play a monk on a PVP server, so I am always looking for optimum speccing for PVP and PVE alike. With this new change to crane twril this is actually a nerf big time. If I am 1v1 with someone what is a 24% AE autoatk going to do for me in that situation, nothing except pull aggro that I then have to use feign on. What a pain. That is why I have said to just merge the 24% AE with the DMG proc. ( Actually the 24% needs to be more like 35-45% IMHO ) To the DEVS. We know you are kindof paying attention, but seriously increasing 16% to 24% is really a slap in the face. Keep our DMG proc on it to go off everytime we AE autoatk. This not only increases our DPS in PVE, but it also still has a purpose in PVP.

01-21-2009, 09:53 PM	#86
jrolla777 Loremaster Join Date: Nov 2004 Posts: 243	I was talking to Obama earlier and he said brawlers should have the same aoe autoattack % at the other 2 archetypes. He said it was despicable that brawlers are treated liek 2nd class citizens. __________________ Mancy the Monk

01-22-2009, 10:40 AM	#87
Turb General Join Date: Nov 2004 Posts: 1,117	I'm pleased the devs have done something by giving us brawlers 24% not 16%. But the argument is about parity with the plate tank classes. Still 16% to go. As for Crane Flock, well, I don't spec it anyway for the time it's available, but it can be tweaked in other ways as suggested by previous posters. I would personally rather see the reuse timer on it lowered, to make it a viable choice. As it is I'm at 75%+ DA a lot of the time so it's value is marginal at best. __________________

01-22-2009, 11:33 AM	#88
mr23sgte Loremaster Join Date: Nov 2004 Location: Florida Posts: 450	Valenx@Nagafen wrote: the sad reality about the brawler class is we really serve 0 purpose in this game. So what we get a semi-ok raidwide buff. The bruiser raidwide got a increase by adding the increase to CA dmg while the monk gets nerfed. However, both are easily replaceable in a raid by a true DPS class. 1 DPS class will out parse the measly buff our raidwides gives and the DPS we put out by a truck load. Now I wish I could say that our DPS makes up for it, but that is just not the case. SOE then has the bright idea to take away a useless DMG proc (crane twrill) and make it an even more useless AE autoatk buff. Ok, so monks get a DMg proc on their OFF stance now...crickets...while the bruiser gets nothing. No self DPS buff, nothing. I play a monk on a PVP server, so I am always looking for optimum speccing for PVP and PVE alike. With this new change to crane twril this is actually a nerf big time. If I am 1v1 with someone what is a 24% AE autoatk going to do for me in that situation, nothing except pull aggro that I then have to use feign on. What a pain. That is why I have said to just merge the 24% AE with the DMG proc. ( Actually the 24% needs to be more like 35-45% IMHO ) To the DEVS. We know you are kindof paying attention, but seriously increasing 16% to 24% is really a slap in the face. Keep our DMG proc on it to go off everytime we AE autoatk. This not only increases our DPS in PVE, but it also still has a purpose in PVP. Yep thats pretty much how I feel.

01-22-2009, 12:38 PM	#89
ShinGoku Loremaster Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: UK Posts: 627	Hereo@Unrest wrote: Valenx@Nagafen wrote: the sad reality about the brawler class is we really serve 0 purpose in this game. So what we get a semi-ok raidwide buff. The bruiser raidwide got a increase by adding the increase to CA dmg while the monk gets nerfed. However, both are easily replaceable in a raid by a true DPS class. 1 DPS class will out parse the measly buff our raidwides gives and the DPS we put out by a truck load. Now I wish I could say that our DPS makes up for it, but that is just not the case. SOE then has the bright idea to take away a useless DMG proc (crane twrill) and make it an even more useless AE autoatk buff. Ok, so monks get a DMg proc on their OFF stance now...crickets...while the bruiser gets nothing. No self DPS buff, nothing. I play a monk on a PVP server, so I am always looking for optimum speccing for PVP and PVE alike. With this new change to crane twril this is actually a nerf big time. If I am 1v1 with someone what is a 24% AE autoatk going to do for me in that situation, nothing except pull aggro that I then have to use feign on. What a pain. That is why I have said to just merge the 24% AE with the DMG proc. ( Actually the 24% needs to be more like 35-45% IMHO ) To the DEVS. We know you are kindof paying attention, but seriously increasing 16% to 24% is really a slap in the face. Keep our DMG proc on it to go off everytime we AE autoatk. This not only increases our DPS in PVE, but it also still has a purpose in PVP. Yep thats pretty much how I feel. Same here really, just totally disheartened... /doh

01-22-2009, 02:40 PM	#90
Dorieon Server: Guk Guild: Despair Rank: Member Loremaster Join Date: Jun 2007 Posts: 171	Ok seriously, can we please get a response on this 24% AE auto attack? In our opinions its too low and should be 40% like all the plate tanks. I mean, we share the same auto attack table, AE auto only procs off of the main hand weapon, we hit more often, and they hit harder so it all seems pretty even to me. All we are asking for is a level playing field with plate tanks, or some solid reasoning why it won't work. Obviously none of us understand the mechanics well enough or we are unaware of an upcoming change that would make giving us 40% AE auto overpowered. Its kind of sad really that we started this thread on 1/7/09 and have been asking for some kind of a response on why our AE auto attack is drastically less but have not heard from a single dev. This thread however... http://forums.station.sony.com/eq2/...topic_id=441521 ....was started yesterday and has already had three replies from Aeralik.