How Infamous Are You?

[Emolad]

Because of how horrible you are.

[PeaSy1]

Add fame decay cause if you arent a pvp just a part time ganked why do you deserver a high title? Merge all the servers together soo what if it becomes a exchange server you really think people dont already buy/sell accounts on none exchange ones? Fame decay is by far the best way to change fame if ur not killing you shouldnt keep your title simple soo what if your crafting/raiding/questing you are obviously not a pvper when your doing this huh if you really want ur title go out and get it not hug some title youve been sitting on for months cause you dont pvp anymore.

[Wytie]

Impressionist@Nagafen wrote:

Add fame decay cause if you arent a pvp just a part time ganked why do you deserver a high title? Merge all the servers together soo what if it becomes a exchange server you really think people dont already buy/sell accounts on none exchange ones? Fame decay is by far the best way to change fame if ur not killing you shouldnt keep your title simple soo what if your crafting/raiding/questing you are obviously not a pvper when your doing this huh if you really want ur title go out and get it not hug some title youve been sitting on for months cause you dont pvp anymore.

QFE

Spot on imo

[Wed]

I had an interesting run-in with Nagafen's most famous Shadowknight. He's a level 65 General, and I'm pretty sure half the Freeport population has done an AA run with him at one point or another. Well, to cut a long story short, he decided a 60 minute cooldown on a godspell was worth being one step closer to Master. Funny thing is, he's done the Godspell + PT instant kill to me numerous times. So, I could say, when he does get Master, that he doesn't deserve it. But, like most masters, he's probably a better player than 95% of the population.

So, we have a title system where the people with the highest titles are, quite often, the best players. But this twisted system makes them Godspell/PvP Belt/LoN Evac etc because of its poor design. We need a system that doesn't promote bad PvP practise like our current one does, but that still means people with the highest titles are the best players.

I honestly believe (being able to look at the argument from each point of view, which I'm afraid doesn't appear that everyone can) that fame decay is the best system.

[Ol]

Wedge wrote:

I had an interesting run-in with Nagafen's most famous Shadowknight. He's a level 65 General, and I'm pretty sure half the Freeport population has done an AA run with him at one point or another. Well, to cut a long story short, he decided a 60 minute cooldown on a godspell was worth being one step closer to Master. Funny thing is, he's done the Godspell + PT instant kill to me numerous times. So, I could say, when he does get Master, that he doesn't deserve it. But, like most masters, he's probably a better player than 95% of the population.

So, we have a title system where the people with the highest titles are, quite often, the best players. But this twisted system makes them Godspell/PvP Belt/LoN Evac etc because of its poor design. We need a system that doesn't promote bad PvP practise like our current one does, but that still means people with the highest titles are the best players.

I honestly believe (being able to look at the argument from each point of view, which I'm afraid doesn't appear that everyone can) that fame decay is the best system.

tbh he didnt need to use that godspell. he is a super twink. he probly uses the combo cause its pretty funny to one hit people. I seriously think no one could stop him at his level with his gear and spells. And if you dont like it, grab some god spells of your own. pvp belt and evacs should go, but god spells should stay. they add flavor to the battlefield. a few of them could be nerfed a bit, but for the most part they are good.

[Darkor]

Olik@Nagafen wrote:

Wedge wrote:

I had an interesting run-in with Nagafen's most famous Shadowknight. He's a level 65 General, and I'm pretty sure half the Freeport population has done an AA run with him at one point or another. Well, to cut a long story short, he decided a 60 minute cooldown on a godspell was worth being one step closer to Master. Funny thing is, he's done the Godspell + PT instant kill to me numerous times. So, I could say, when he does get Master, that he doesn't deserve it. But, like most masters, he's probably a better player than 95% of the population.

So, we have a title system where the people with the highest titles are, quite often, the best players. But this twisted system makes them Godspell/PvP Belt/LoN Evac etc because of its poor design. We need a system that doesn't promote bad PvP practise like our current one does, but that still means people with the highest titles are the best players.

I honestly believe (being able to look at the argument from each point of view, which I'm afraid doesn't appear that everyone can) that fame decay is the best system.

tbh he didnt need to use that godspell. he is a super twink. he probly uses the combo cause its pretty funny to one hit people. I seriously think no one could stop him at his level with his gear and spells. And if you dont like it, grab some god spells of your own. pvp belt and evacs should go, but god spells should stay. they add flavor to the battlefield. a few of them could be nerfed a bit, but for the most part they are good.

God spells certainly should not stay. 6k unresistable focus dmg from a final judgment is a no go.

[Ol]

Darkor@Venekor wrote:

Olik@Nagafen wrote:

Wedge wrote:

I had an interesting run-in with Nagafen's most famous Shadowknight. He's a level 65 General, and I'm pretty sure half the Freeport population has done an AA run with him at one point or another. Well, to cut a long story short, he decided a 60 minute cooldown on a godspell was worth being one step closer to Master. Funny thing is, he's done the Godspell + PT instant kill to me numerous times. So, I could say, when he does get Master, that he doesn't deserve it. But, like most masters, he's probably a better player than 95% of the population.

So, we have a title system where the people with the highest titles are, quite often, the best players. But this twisted system makes them Godspell/PvP Belt/LoN Evac etc because of its poor design. We need a system that doesn't promote bad PvP practise like our current one does, but that still means people with the highest titles are the best players.

I honestly believe (being able to look at the argument from each point of view, which I'm afraid doesn't appear that everyone can) that fame decay is the best system.

tbh he didnt need to use that godspell. he is a super twink. he probly uses the combo cause its pretty funny to one hit people. I seriously think no one could stop him at his level with his gear and spells. And if you dont like it, grab some god spells of your own. pvp belt and evacs should go, but god spells should stay. they add flavor to the battlefield. a few of them could be nerfed a bit, but for the most part they are good.

God spells certainly should not stay. 6k unresistable focus dmg from a final judgment is a no go.

Thats why i said to nerf some. those need to be nerfed.

[thephantomposter]

With one of my toons, I never realised I had a title until I lost it, lol. Not very infamous. :0)

[Wed]

Olik@Nagafen wrote:

Wedge wrote:

I had an interesting run-in with Nagafen's most famous Shadowknight. He's a level 65 General, and I'm pretty sure half the Freeport population has done an AA run with him at one point or another. Well, to cut a long story short, he decided a 60 minute cooldown on a godspell was worth being one step closer to Master. Funny thing is, he's done the Godspell + PT instant kill to me numerous times. So, I could say, when he does get Master, that he doesn't deserve it. But, like most masters, he's probably a better player than 95% of the population.

So, we have a title system where the people with the highest titles are, quite often, the best players. But this twisted system makes them Godspell/PvP Belt/LoN Evac etc because of its poor design. We need a system that doesn't promote bad PvP practise like our current one does, but that still means people with the highest titles are the best players.

I honestly believe (being able to look at the argument from each point of view, which I'm afraid doesn't appear that everyone can) that fame decay is the best system.

tbh he didnt need to use that godspell. he is a super twink. he probly uses the combo cause its pretty funny to one hit people. I seriously think no one could stop him at his level with his gear and spells. And if you dont like it, grab some god spells of your own. pvp belt and evacs should go, but god spells should stay. they add flavor to the battlefield. a few of them could be nerfed a bit, but for the most part they are good.

No, he doesn't need to godspell. Just like in our last 1v1 (after he'd godspell/PT'd me) all he needs to do is hit Divine Aura when he's at 15% and I'm at 60%, and after that 10 seconds he back up to 50% or so while I'm a 5.

But, this is semantics. And, if godspells do add flavour, then it's a pretty horrible one.

[Dh]

I can't decide which would make me happier if removed: PVP 10 second parry all attacks belt or Godspell miracles/blessings. You only need these 2 tools to get a high title with the current system.

[Crimson Lord]

Instead of a decay system, remove fame all together...and how about considering a raiding of the cities. Where freeport could take over qeynos and defend it agaisnt qeynos trying to take it back and vice a versa. Exiles would get the option to raid either side.  Or implememnt it in guild halls....

of course that leaves alot of lagging issues with raid on raid pvp, just a thought

[Hospik]

The points addressed in this thread regarding fame are very interesting (also outside of EQ2). Keeping the way fame works outside of games in mind while thinking about the fame mechanism in EQ2 PvP is – in my mind – the only way to go towards a viable solution to the problems.

As stated earlier, its hard being famous without doing anything that deserves fame.

Being known for anything is nice, recognition for achievements is a pretty satisfactory ordeal for most people. Hence, having a PvP title as recognition for achievements equals good times all around. Apparently, this applies regardless of whether or not these achievements have been made “legitimately“ in the eyes of others.

There should be a way to calculate if actions taken by players result in an increase or decrease of fame. At the moment you can gain fame by killing other players with an equal or +1 fame status.

It takes skill – or at least effort – to achieve fame. This should be rewarded. At the moment this is rewarded in the form of a title. 

I think we can all agree on the above statements.

Also stated earlier: recognition of deeds done in recent memory doesn’t apply forever. Achievements made in the past do not guarantee the same kind of recognition today.

I don’t think its possible to have a realistic system of fame where fame is only decreased by something done by someone else (like being killed). A famous athlete will have to keep in shape, a famous singer will have to perform, a notorious social parasite will have to stay in the news, etc. If another athlete is better, the achievements of the lesser athlete might be recognized less, but it doesnt diminish the achievement.

Interesting here is that the scale of fame doesn’t only apply to deeds done, but also by the amount of time this can be kept up. For an athlete being on top of their game for a number of seasons in a row is a far greater achievement than running a single good season. Madonna is a lot more famous at the moment because she maintained her popularity through the decades somehow. If Like a Virgin was her only hit, you guys wouldn’t even know who I’m talking about (remember Vanilla Ice?).

The EQ2 fame system doesn’t really support this kind of recognition at the moment, except when people maintain their titles by running like chickens at the earliest sign of trouble.

Don’t get me wrong though, achievements made in the past do, and should,  get recognized. Even Vanilla Ice’s one hit deserves recognition. Maybe that’s a bad example, but you get my drift.

So how about we make it so that achieving certain levels of fame by exemplary displays of PvP combat are rewarded at the moment, ánd in the future? (Fame Decay vs. Only Lose Fame by Death argument)  simple: split the two.

Reward the achievement of attaining a certain PVP fame title. Reward it by static rewards such as PvP writ tokens, house items, appearance items, player set pre- and suffix titles, Coin, pets, status, you name it. We can go all out on this one and have a practically infinite amount of options. This will enable players to display their skills and previous achievements.

But - to compliment that - keep the Fame titles fixed and decay fame over time. That way, we can see who is currently on top of their PVP game, we can see who is working on PvP rewards NOW, and so the titles actually mean something again. Titles will be something to define the challenge level of a player again.

And at the same time they are a curse to the player. Because they are fixed, it defines them as a threat, players might be afraid of them because it shows they are currently out hunting, and possess a certain amount of theoretical skill.

Other problems mentioned in this thread should be addressed separately. Like ganking and possible unfair skills like miracles and evac.

[Faenril]

OK. So we are changing fame system woot. My thoughts on the issue...A lot of stuff repeated from other posts but I wished a "standalone" post...I try to keep it structured but it's not so easy 1) What are we fixing ? What's our aim ?If we are changing fame system for a - hopefully - better system, maybe it's a good idea to summarize what's wrong with current system first, to decide if changes are needed at all, and what we should achieve with these changes - FAME SYSTEM DOES NOT PROMOTE FAIR FIGHTS OR FIGHTS AGAINST THE ODDS. IT ENCOURAGES RUNNING AWAY.  Because the death penalty is huge when you die and fame is involved. Ppl who "play to win" (fame) won't fight if there are significant chances they may die/loose fame. The reward vs risk is simply not worth it.  On top of that the higher your title the harder it gets to earn/recover fame, as ppl protect their title, so the more protective YOU become with your title. This is an endless circle.  So high titled players often have the reputation to be cowards, and as a matter of fact we see daily that high titled players run/evac a lot when fame is involved.  This is not a very "realistic" mechanic, as typically those who are famous in real life earned their fame by doing great accomplishments, winning against the odds.  Examples: beating the champion when you are a rookie, David vs Goliath, beating an army bigger than yours because you are a great strategist ...    In EQ2 there is a contradiction that most "famous" ppl are those who tend to escape from battle.  This results in less pvp overall (how many times a 6 man group evacced from your 6 man group not to risk fame ?).  - FAME SYSTEM DOES NOT REFLECT SKILL.  There are countless ways to exploit the fame system, and countless ways to fight "dirty" to earn fame.  When I see a player with a high title, I think this player got his title due to one or a mix of the following reasons:  *he has higher than usual skills at the game.  *he has more knowledge than the average about the game (which gear/clickies to use in pvp).  *he has better gear (raid guild ?).  *he plays a "fame system friendly" class. (classes with tools to pick their fights, ways to kill fast, stop runners, run fast and escape have an innate advantage).  *he is often/always in a (solid?) group.  *he spends loot on godspells/blessings.  *he spends cash on LoN items.  *he carries lots of evac, and never leaves immunity without one.  *he will never engage in a fair fight and only look for gank opportunities, or will only engage with all his timers up (including godspells, pvp belt ...).  *he bought fame from other players or farmed alts.  *he leeched fame.  *he exploits or at least takes advantage of stinky game mechanics (choker, safehouse in the air, warping, hiding under the world, feeding a dead alt/friend with grouped with a low title toon...).  *the list goes on...  So as we can see, while some high titled players show skill at the game, there are so many ways to earn fame with almost no skill involved that you can't assume someone is good because he has a title (which might be the orignial purpose of titles ?).  We MAY want a fame system that reflects more player skills at the game ?  - FAME SYSTEM IS A SOURCE OF FRUSTRATION.  This relates strongly to the death penalty.  You earned well desserved fame in a 1:1 or 6:6, and 5 minutes later you get ganked/jumped in a fight and loose fame to scrubs simply because they had numbers over you.  How many times did this happen to you ?  When I loose fame I do not get mad because I got deranked. Loosing/being outplayed is part of the game... I do get [Removed for Content] off though when I give fame or a writ update to people who do not desserve it, who did not earn it.  I do get [Removed for Content] because in an unfair fight (ie 1 vs 6), I lost as much as I would earn from a fair fight that would take me some hard work to win.  The idea of giving a reward to ppl who don't work for it makes me upset. Apparently I'm not the only one.  When it comes to fame, like with writs, the risk vs reward is completely borked currently. The less risks you take the more you get rewarded by the fame system.  While it may sound funny to some ppl, it really gets old after a while and I know some ppl who left the game because they grew tired of this insane system.  Loosing players is of course detrimental to PVP.  2) Why is the fame system this way ?   It's interesting to try to guess/remember why the designers made the system this way.   Maybe there are good reasons for this non sense and we just fail to see them after all ?     - DEATH PENALTY:   One argument in favor of death penalty is that it adds depth to the pvp and makes it more exciting. There is more fun/adrenaline when you know you may loose something valuable if you die. Without it PVP = brainless killing.   Some also argue that skill is measured by survival: anyone can kill stuff, but surviving takes skill. I would agree on that if surviving in EQ2 was not trivialized by a few items/abilities/mechanics (evac, track, immunity, level ranges...). Survival in EQ2 takes very little skill if you are devoted to it. In a game where you would have to rely completely on the environment/awareness to survive, then I would agree.   Death penalty is one way to prevent everyone from eventually getting overseer. If there was no way to loose fame, then everyone would reach the top eventually, killing the purpose of a fame/title system.   Death penalty prevents some exploiting/farming. Without a death penalty friends of opposite alignement could farm each other all the way up to overseer. raids could zerg each other with the same result. THIS IS A KILLING ARGUMENT IN FAVOR OF DEATH PENALTY IMO.    - LADDER SYSTEM:   A lot of ppl wonder why a general does not get fame from hunter and vice versa...   I guess the original idea was that in order to progress to the next rank, you would have to kill players of comparable skill, or at least equally difficult to kill as you, this way it's not trivial to get a high title.   If one got fame from any kill, then it would be easier to exploit the fame system: farm an untitled friend toon from opposite faction up to overseer. Farm only untitled bots and evac from anybody else...   If hunters could derank generals, under current system some generals would even run/evac from hunters, leading to less pvp than now ! 3) Conclusion/New fame system requirements/features:Ideally we are looking for a system which:a) promotes fighting instead of running/hiding in town or instances. More PvP for the win !b) reflects more accurately player's skills. That's a tricky part !c) does not punish "loosers" too badly, as frustrating customers is not good for business.d) is hard to exploit (alt/friend farming).e) prevents everyone from hitting the top easily. (ie raid zerging each other at docks).f) should be kept simple, to see it implemented Current system fails on a) b) c) and succeeds on d) e) f).4) Proposed solutions:Here is a mix of proposed solutions so far, and their pros and cons IMO:a) EVERY KILL TRIGGERS A FAME TRANSFER, THE AMOUNT DEPENDING OF TITLES INVOLVED (hunter vs general thing):+ makes sense. Realistic.- encourages running and leeching. People will only engage against a higher title, as they have little to earn and a lot to loose from a lower title.I do not see that working with a death penalty based system. Would work/make sense under a fame decay/kill count system.b) KILLING YIELDS MORE FAME THAN DYING TAKES AWAY:+ less frustration.- trivially exploitable. Everyone ends overseer if put in current system as is. There is a very good reason currently if total earned fame = total fame loss in a fame transfer.

No. Does not work.c) KILL COUNT BASED TITLES - NO FAME LOSS ON DEATH:+ encourage pvp, running is pointless.- pure kill count based title would encourage huge scale pvp farming.- obvious advantage to exiles.  Would have to be based on % of top ranked players on leaderboards (per class), but even this way it would favor groups/raids.

Why not if we can prevent massive zergs for famez. Otherwise it's not working.d) FAME DECAY (ONLY WHEN ONLINE OF COURSE) / TITLE UPKEEP with "PVP STATUS" - NO FAME LOSS ON DEATH:+ encourages pvp.+ kinda makes sense. You have to "defend" title. No pvp title if you don't actively pvp.+ compatible with almost all the other ideas proposed.- How is mass zerging prevented ?- How is friend/alt farming prevented ? ("I have an overseer friend and we kill each other daily to maintain our title").- Has to be tuned differently for exiles/city factions.e) TITLES VISIBILITY SHOULD BE TOGGLEABLE:+ does not hurt anyone ?

Under current system It should only affect the client side: I can hide my title and others title on my screen, but others can see my title if they are interested in fame. Otherwise titled ppl will run from those who "hide" their title.f) IT SHOULD BE POSSIBLE TO TURN OFF FAME SYSTEM INDIVIDUALLY (ONE REMAINS UNTITLED AND NEVER TAKES PART IN FAME TRANSACTIONS):+ don't make me take part in that fame comedy (tragedy ?) if I don't feel like it !+ does not hurt anyone ?Why not, I don't see a problem with that.g) TITLES SHOULD BE KEPT FOREVER ONCE YOU EARN THEM, BUT YOUR "FAME COUNTER" SHOULD STILL WORK AS USUAL IN THE BACKGROUND:+ I don't see a problem with that+ Less running of high titled pplWhy not, but should ppl earn/loose fame depending on their "displayed"/former title or their actual one ? (if so others have to know this actual title...). h) FAME EXCHANGED SHOULD BE BASED ON PARTY SIZE INVOLVED+ better than encounter locking (against pvp spirit and exploitable by dual boxing).- ?

Should be based on something like the squared ratio of party size:If 6 kill 1, solo looses 1/6th fame, and group shares 1/6 fame (=1/36 each). If 1 kill 1 If duo kills 1, solo looses 1/2 fame, duo get 1/4 fame each.If 6 kill 6, each dead loose 1 fame, each winner earn 1.Fame loss should cap to 1 though otherwise a solo who wipes a group/raid engaged in pve would earn exponential amount of fame.5) Final wordCurrent fame system has obvious issues, but death penaly makes it difficult to exploit by farming.Fame decay concept is appealing to me. I like the idea that you don't stay overseer forever while sitting afk at docks or raiding (no pvp notoriety for killing e-dragons sorry). But if a fame decay system was implemented, how would the farming be prevented ? I see no easy way.Maybe leaving fame system untouched and adjusting some mechanics that interact closely with the fame system, would be sufficient. At least it would be great steps forward. For instance:- "cheap" ways to earn/protect fame: exploits, in combat evac ...- "I win" buttons / miracles.- risk vs reward.

[tullebukk]

Ive  been reading through this thread a few times and theres a lot of good ideas here.

I would say tho, my personal favourite is to place a NPC in every city where you can drop off your title and you can choose to not gain/lose/not be a part of the fame system at all. It would be easy and simple to put in the game, and would please both sides.

The worst idea, atleast on Nagafen is where you gain and lose fame to everyone in any fame-range.  I love to run around solo. I dont have tracking, I dont see if there is 1 or 10 ppl around hiding. Would it be fair for me to drop a lot of fame when I get zerged by 10 hunters? I dont think so. In a fair 1v1 vs a hunter, yes..  But when you get set up or zerged by a lot of players? No.. Its not fair at all. It would completely kill the solo pvp.  I also think that would just encourage the massive zerg on KP docks more than before.

But thats just my 2cp's!

[IcterusGalbula]

Kerec@Venekor wrote:

I'd support the notion of keeping your title once you get it.  No matter how you get it (real fights, farming alts, etc.) at least maybe it'll stop people from running to preserve their precious title, and if that happens, the few players left on the servers get more pvp action.

My goodness!  Farming alts to gain a title!  That is brilliant!  I never thought of that.  LOL!

BTW, a few days ago I saw a level 11 slayer.  I did not realize it was still possible to get a slayer title before level 12.

I wonder if he farmed his alts!  LOL!

[Kurindor_Mythecnea]

Kaily@Nagafen wrote:

Ive  been reading through this thread a few times and theres a lot of good ideas here.

I would say tho, my personal favourite is to place a NPC in every city where you can drop off your title and you can choose to not gain/lose/not be a part of the fame system at all. It would be easy and simple to put in the game, and would please both sides.

The worst idea, atleast on Nagafen is where you gain and lose fame to everyone in any fame-range.  I love to run around solo. I dont have tracking, I dont see if there is 1 or 10 ppl around hiding. Would it be fair for me to drop a lot of fame when I get zerged by 10 hunters? I dont think so. In a fair 1v1 vs a hunter, yes..  But when you get set up or zerged by a lot of players? No.. Its not fair at all. It would completely kill the solo pvp.  I also think that would just encourage the massive zerg on KP docks more than before.

But thats just my 2cp's!

My suggestions would circumvent a scenario like the one you mentioned.

[Ol]

It might help if it took more kills to reach/lose the title. that way its not such a big deal to die. this could help prevent all the people who run unless the odds are on their side.

[Twinbladed]

I bet alot of you people with high titles wouldnt want to lose fame to a hunter. That would just make you look dumb. The only people with high titles are either grouped or evac and only try fights they know they can win. So yea of course kaily would say something like that. I think its PvP you put a fame system in an your supose to be some bad .... and you get your head stomp by a group i giess your just not as bad as you title says are you?

[Kujino]

rothgar in my opinion we need merged severely the population has declined to a point where u can barely even find pvp at any tier besides t2 and t8. As far as the vox being a livegamer server...i have no idea what to say to that...as far as i can see most people dont even buy stuff on vox and hardly any toons are moved...so doesnt seem like its truly that important to people. Hopefully you'll find a fix for it =) 

-kujino

[Spyderbite]

I got a "Hunter" title the other night.. And, I don't want it.

[Beagest]

Seliri@Nagafen wrote:

Kaily@Nagafen wrote:

Ive  been reading through this thread a few times and theres a lot of good ideas here.

I would say tho, my personal favourite is to place a NPC in every city where you can drop off your title and you can choose to not gain/lose/not be a part of the fame system at all. It would be easy and simple to put in the game, and would please both sides.

The worst idea, atleast on Nagafen is where you gain and lose fame to everyone in any fame-range.  I love to run around solo. I dont have tracking, I dont see if there is 1 or 10 ppl around hiding. Would it be fair for me to drop a lot of fame when I get zerged by 10 hunters? I dont think so. In a fair 1v1 vs a hunter, yes..  But when you get set up or zerged by a lot of players? No.. Its not fair at all. It would completely kill the solo pvp.  I also think that would just encourage the massive zerg on KP docks more than before.

But thats just my 2cp's!

My suggestions would circumvent a scenario like the one you mentioned.

when can we expect you in t8 seliri

[Natthan]

Twelve@Nagafen wrote:

Seliri@Nagafen wrote:

Kaily@Nagafen wrote:

Ive  been reading through this thread a few times and theres a lot of good ideas here.

I would say tho, my personal favourite is to place a NPC in every city where you can drop off your title and you can choose to not gain/lose/not be a part of the fame system at all. It would be easy and simple to put in the game, and would please both sides.

The worst idea, atleast on Nagafen is where you gain and lose fame to everyone in any fame-range.  I love to run around solo. I dont have tracking, I dont see if there is 1 or 10 ppl around hiding. Would it be fair for me to drop a lot of fame when I get zerged by 10 hunters? I dont think so. In a fair 1v1 vs a hunter, yes..  But when you get set up or zerged by a lot of players? No.. Its not fair at all. It would completely kill the solo pvp.  I also think that would just encourage the massive zerg on KP docks more than before.

But thats just my 2cp's!

My suggestions would circumvent a scenario like the one you mentioned.

when can we expect you in t8 seliri

Never, Its too scary to play max level for him I think he said a bit back complaining about the removal of level locking.

[Twinbladed]

Drop you title off, thats stupid especially comming from a title hogger.

Fame should be taken from anyone. If your gonna run arround with a high title then play to the standards of your title ortherwise your not proven anything. Honestly If you a dreadnaught or higher I think you should be able to own whole groups at a time. Anyone with a title high than champ cant say that accidently got it. Then you get the idea to drop your title off no way I think everyone should be able to gank fame from you. You cant kill the player or players then your not as good as your title.

Figure's some of the name in here who agree to drop there title off are the main ones who got 20 evacs and roll x4 everytime you see them.

[Wed]

Spartis@Nagafen wrote:

Drop you title off, thats stupid especially comming from a title hogger.

Fame should be taken from anyone. If your gonna run arround with a high title then play to the standards of your title ortherwise your not proven anything. Honestly If you a dreadnaught or higher I think you should be able to own whole groups at a time. Anyone with a title high than champ cant say that accidently got it. Then you get the idea to drop your title off no way I think everyone should be able to gank fame from you. You cant kill the player or players then your not as good as your title.

Figure's some of the name in here who agree to drop there title off are the main ones who got 20 evacs and roll x4 everytime you see them.

One of the most non-sensical posts I've ever read before.

[Azekah1]

IcterusGalbula wrote:

BTW, a few days ago I saw a level 11 slayer.  I did not realize it was still possible to get a slayer title before level 12.

I wonder if he farmed his alts!  LOL!

You can get slayer from nontitled players : )

[Cyst]

Sightless wrote:

Rothgar wrote:

Peak@Nagafen wrote:

Let's not turn this into a flamefest just to get locked please...

Agreed.  Lets try to keep this thread constructive so something good can come out of it.  Save the fighting for the battlefields.

Darkor, I certainly understand your concerns with the population and in my opinion we need to solve that issue first.  Hopefully after the holidays we will start talking about options.

The problem with fame are the people who do anyting to attain it, then run to keep it. People buy fame, run in full groups killing solo's, duo's, et cetera, or they wait till someone is engaged with a mob, and take the easy kill. It is far easier for a scout to keep fame because of track+evac than it is for a Guardian who is running around solo.

Anyone can get a high title if they hide in the city until they have a full group to go out with, or they're a scout. So we need to find a way to award people for actually fighting, instead of the gank fest the servers have become. After playing EQ1, Dark Age of Camelot, and on a PvP enabled Neverwinter Nights server I can think of many ways to award people for actually fighting.

I implore you to look deep into the desires here, and do not award those here who're afraid of losing their titles.

This is why I think any lower title, say a Hunter should be able to take fame from an Overseer. After all shouldn't an Overseer be good enough to never lose to a Hunter? Titles are too safe, and mean nothing. Make them mean something by putting in...

1. Fame Decay - So they have to earn fame to keep their title.
2. Allow for fame loss by any lower title - A Hunter should be able to take fame from an Overseer.

Win, win situation. PROVE YOURSELF through your exploits, and fights. Not by ganking and running your entire characters career.

I would like to add to this. I remember a tank in Dark Age of Camelot when people started hitting the high levels, and spent a lot of time fighting for the realms that everyone looked up to, and everyone feared. No one cared about his deaths, no one cared about how many people he killed, and he did not have a title.

What everyone knew was that this guy would fight any odds, he stood tall, and he fought. He took his wins, and he took his losses, but he did win most of his encounters, or put up a showing that even when he would lose, people were like wow, that was fun, and thanked him for such a good, honorable fight.

That my friends is INFAMY. Infamy is how you present yourself, never will it ever be, nor should it be about a title. Everquest II has created a system that causes unfriendly game play, and that is what they need to fix first.

The only way to counter some of thes unfriendly practices, you do things like help prevent hunters from getting farmed for writ updates, from people with nothing to lose to them is by making them dangerous, and you do this by allowing any lower titled  player the chance to take fame from a higher titled player.

[Kurindor_Mythecnea]

Natthan@Venekor wrote:

Twelve@Nagafen wrote:

Seliri@Nagafen wrote:

Kaily@Nagafen wrote:

Ive  been reading through this thread a few times and theres a lot of good ideas here.

I would say tho, my personal favourite is to place a NPC in every city where you can drop off your title and you can choose to not gain/lose/not be a part of the fame system at all. It would be easy and simple to put in the game, and would please both sides.

The worst idea, atleast on Nagafen is where you gain and lose fame to everyone in any fame-range.  I love to run around solo. I dont have tracking, I dont see if there is 1 or 10 ppl around hiding. Would it be fair for me to drop a lot of fame when I get zerged by 10 hunters? I dont think so. In a fair 1v1 vs a hunter, yes..  But when you get set up or zerged by a lot of players? No.. Its not fair at all. It would completely kill the solo pvp.  I also think that would just encourage the massive zerg on KP docks more than before.

But thats just my 2cp's!

My suggestions would circumvent a scenario like the one you mentioned.

when can we expect you in t8 seliri

Never, Its too scary to play max level for him I think he said a bit back complaining about the removal of level locking.

I was gonna get my full set of level 70 Fabled token gear so I could have some variety in appearance (having about 600 tokens atm), but I'm pretty sure their nerf to level locking won't allow me to complete a full set. With GU# 51, it seems their excellence at reducing the avenues of gameplay into linear paths is quite fantastic, though I do jest. I don't have enough time (whether spotty or consistent) for devoting myself to gearing out well at top tier though, so I don't foresee my hitting 80 within the next 7 months. Lol. =]

[zorros]

The nerf to lvl locking was the best thing ever to happen to eq2 imo. I can remember you on darathar lvl locked in the 20s and nearly impossible to kill. Whats the fun in that?

You will however have to lvl if abit slower but i can asure you it will happen one day unless you quit . Then you will become foder for all the well geared 80s, have no title and be on a lvl playing field to everyone else.

[Portbott]

Spartis@Nagafen wrote:

I bet alot of you people with high titles wouldnt want to lose fame to a hunter. That would just make you look dumb. The only people with high titles are either grouped or evac and only try fights they know they can win. So yea of course kaily would say something like that. I think its PvP you put a fame system in an your supose to be some bad .... and you get your head stomp by a group i giess your just not as bad as you title says are you?

Uhh - I don't only fight people that I "know" I will against to [Removed for Content] fame. I fight people I know I'll win against but that's how you're supposed to play PvP. Why would I want to fight someone if I know I'm going to lose?

[Kurindor_Mythecnea]

Bebop@Nagafen wrote:

The nerf to lvl locking was the best thing ever to happen to eq2 imo. I can remember you on darathar lvl locked in the 20s and nearly impossible to kill. Whats the fun in that?

You will however have to lvl if abit slower but i can asure you it will happen one day unless you quit . Then you will become foder for all the well geared 80s, have no title and be on a lvl playing field to everyone else.

Psh, I will buy collections and instantly be 80 once I have my lebbil 70 Faybild uhpeerense set. Then, with all of my eses and hombres, I will attend great raids and endure a goodly has-ing of phantaztick e-kwipmentz, a point from which I will proceed with the perusal of wins for make victory in Phreepourts. Not only that, but once I'm 70, just in case collections dont do the trick, I will have every HQ on the last step, REDDEIGH TEW KUMPLEETZ FOR MAKE HAS-ING OF LEBBIL EIGHDEE!!!! ROARGO! However, a time such as this shan't come to pass for 7+ months, provided the end of times has yet to begin. lol. n_n

I was also never on Darathar, as I was but a youngin of Nagafen since May of 06. Low tier PvP is and was a prime aspect of pursuit in the EQ2 experience until confused sheep thought it was best to destroy dynamic content with engaging longevity, all to sate the whims of carebear PvE players and attempt to appeal to the masses in a ploy that failed horribly, hurting population more than helping.

Failing to consider the maximization of content utilization had by the once present alternative known as (true) level locking, it is understandable that you feel the worst thing that happened to EQ2 is the "best thing." Competitive group vs group and raid vs raid encounter were ultimately commonplace in the prime age of EQ2 (which is no longer), as at that time, Legendary/Fabled drops were meaningful and MC wasn't OP in these level ranges.

Woe unto those who feel themselves to have a panacea, and in imprudence, perpetuate diaspora. :'[