Station Cash? - Page 40

Rast · 12-19-2008, 05:19 PM

Kierva@Befallen wrote:

Atan@Unrest wrote:
Kierva@Befallen wrote:
SOE is currently not removing the aspect of being rewarded for determination. They have not added anything that is more overpowered than what is currently in game. They have not made it so the only way a player can compete is to pay for it. Yes, someone *could* level faster, get achievements faster... and yeah, it kinda stinks... but that doesn't break the game...
Yes, the apparent backsliding on allowing SC gifting has removed the ability to use the SC system to become overpowered or uber twinked via SC. It is now just fluff and minor 'leg up' effects that can be purchased with the swipe of a card.
And I hold to the fact that the underlying assumption in your last statement is that players will use the minor 'leg up'... I, probably foolishly, hold our fellow players to a higher standard than that... I just don't see how we as rational individuals can blame SOE responsible for people actually buying the items... true, SOE added the ability for people to get 'an edge'... but that doesn't mean people have to use it...
For someone to imply that SOE has destroyed the game by giving us that option... assumes that people will use that option... and I don't think they will...

I, unfortunately, don't agree with your optimism... if it is available, people will use it, whether it is legal or not. But then, I became a bit jaded after my time in Shadowbane about the integrity of players... People will, unfortunaly, in most cases take any advantage they can get, whether it is minor or not, if it gives them the feeling of 'winning'.

I really wish your world was more the one we are in, but look at all the people who have actively exploited, used bots, bought plat from RMT vendors, etc... I don't do it, but in this 'give me now mentality' that (at least) the US has, they expect the game handed to them on a silver platter and with their change to boot.

KachikoJa · 12-19-2008, 05:23 PM

Jalathan@Antonia Bayle wrote:

Kierva@Befallen wrote:
Atan@Unrest wrote:
Kierva@Befallen wrote:
SOE is currently not removing the aspect of being rewarded for determination. They have not added anything that is more overpowered than what is currently in game. They have not made it so the only way a player can compete is to pay for it. Yes, someone *could* level faster, get achievements faster... and yeah, it kinda stinks... but that doesn't break the game...
Yes, the apparent backsliding on allowing SC gifting has removed the ability to use the SC system to become overpowered or uber twinked via SC. It is now just fluff and minor 'leg up' effects that can be purchased with the swipe of a card.
And I hold to the fact that the underlying assumption in your last statement is that players will use the minor 'leg up'... I, probably foolishly, hold our fellow players to a higher standard than that... I just don't see how we as rational individuals can blame SOE responsible for people actually buying the items... true, SOE added the ability for people to get 'an edge'... but that doesn't mean people have to use it...
For someone to imply that SOE has destroyed the game by giving us that option... assumes that people will use that option... and I don't think they will...
I, unfortunately, don't agree with your optimism... if it is available, people will use it, whether it is legal or not. But then, I became a bit jaded after my time in Shadowbane about the integrity of players... People will, unfortunaly, in most cases take any advantage they can get, whether it is minor or not, if it gives them the feeling of 'winning'.
I really wish your world was more the one we are in, but look at all the people who have actively exploited, used bots, bought plat from RMT vendors, etc... I don't do it, but in this 'give me now mentality' that (at least) the US has, they expect the game handed to them on a silver platter and with their change to boot.

Sadly, that's not SOE's fault... that's the individual player's fault... and to assume that SOE will ignore that potential cash flow (assuming it does exist) is probably even more naive than my hope that there are gamers who enjoying working towards a goal rather than buying it... course, I won't buy my mythical updates either LOL

Rast · 12-19-2008, 05:24 PM

Kierva@Befallen wrote:

Jalathan@Antonia Bayle wrote:
Atan@Unrest wrote:
Kierva@Befallen wrote:
SOE is currently not removing the aspect of being rewarded for determination. They have not added anything that is more overpowered than what is currently in game. They have not made it so the only way a player can compete is to pay for it. Yes, someone *could* level faster, get achievements faster... and yeah, it kinda stinks... but that doesn't break the game...
Yes, the apparent backsliding on allowing SC gifting has removed the ability to use the SC system to become overpowered or uber twinked via SC. It is now just fluff and minor 'leg up' effects that can be purchased with the swipe of a card.
Ask the PvPers if a no level limit 40% speed pot isn't overpowered or a bonus to AAxp isn't overpower, I think you'll find a different answer to them. These things are game altering to them, they aren't as much to PvE because WE pick when we fight and what we fight (most of the time anyways)
Playing from day one... all I can say is sorry... EQ2 was originally released as a PvE game only... I don't think they should have added PvP at a later date.... not because I hate PvP, but because I think PvP is a different level of complexity that should be included with the original game design...
And still I say... what type of character do you think the players have that buy the 40% run speed potion... once again... if no one bought the potion, it wouldn't matter that it was for sale... so, I guess... I'm sorry that there are people that feel the need to cheat... so they can feel like they're better than someone else...

Oh, personally I agree with you. I don't play on a PvP server and I knew that it was bad news for us PvE folks when they announced it (because nerfs tend to happen just because of PvP and the concept of balance). But that doesn't mean they don't pay their money too.

The whole post is to push the concept that what is fluff to one person can be game breaking for another. To me, as a RPer who has left the raiding community, I find that people consider the appearance armor fluff to be appauling. To me, appearance armor can be as game enhancing as any raid gear. Yes, it may not impact my 'combat ability', but this game is more than just combat to many people.

Giral · 12-19-2008, 05:26 PM

Atan@Unrest wrote:

Kierva@Befallen wrote:
SOE is currently not removing the aspect of being rewarded for determination. They have not added anything that is more overpowered than what is currently in game. They have not made it so the only way a player can compete is to pay for it. Yes, someone *could* level faster, get achievements faster... and yeah, it kinda stinks... but that doesn't break the game...
Yes, the apparent backsliding on allowing SC gifting has removed the ability to use the SC system to become overpowered or uber twinked via SC. It is now just fluff and minor 'leg up' effects that can be purchased with the swipe of a card.

i havent seen one concrete post where Smed actualy states they will never impliment gifting . all i have seen is

we are rethinking our previous thoughts, and we are considering that we might not Ever impliment it

so if anything else Smed is now wording everything with a possibly maybe phrasing so that they have the leeway to add it in at an undetermined date in the future.

its the same with stationcash itself , release it with stuff so obviously designed specificly to be a bunch of junk, and even then the exp,aa,speed potions are already having an impact on the game.

so they release stationcash with junk to get your first dose of poison shoved down your mouth, and slowly they will add the goodstuff, same with Gifting, they will put it on the back burner for now but in 6 months from now when alot of people are burn out and let thier subs run out, and others have had enough of the game and cancel and others leave becuase stationcash items are introduced that imbalance the game, Then Gifting will be implimented to try and offset even more people leaving the game, have to keep the cash coming in somehow, so the more that leave the faster better sc items wil become and the faster gifting will be implimented .

Rast · 12-19-2008, 05:27 PM

Kierva@Befallen wrote:

Jalathan@Antonia Bayle wrote:
Kierva@Befallen wrote:
Atan@Unrest wrote:
Kierva@Befallen wrote:
SOE is currently not removing the aspect of being rewarded for determination. They have not added anything that is more overpowered than what is currently in game. They have not made it so the only way a player can compete is to pay for it. Yes, someone *could* level faster, get achievements faster... and yeah, it kinda stinks... but that doesn't break the game...
Yes, the apparent backsliding on allowing SC gifting has removed the ability to use the SC system to become overpowered or uber twinked via SC. It is now just fluff and minor 'leg up' effects that can be purchased with the swipe of a card.
And I hold to the fact that the underlying assumption in your last statement is that players will use the minor 'leg up'... I, probably foolishly, hold our fellow players to a higher standard than that... I just don't see how we as rational individuals can blame SOE responsible for people actually buying the items... true, SOE added the ability for people to get 'an edge'... but that doesn't mean people have to use it...
For someone to imply that SOE has destroyed the game by giving us that option... assumes that people will use that option... and I don't think they will...
I, unfortunately, don't agree with your optimism... if it is available, people will use it, whether it is legal or not. But then, I became a bit jaded after my time in Shadowbane about the integrity of players... People will, unfortunaly, in most cases take any advantage they can get, whether it is minor or not, if it gives them the feeling of 'winning'.
I really wish your world was more the one we are in, but look at all the people who have actively exploited, used bots, bought plat from RMT vendors, etc... I don't do it, but in this 'give me now mentality' that (at least) the US has, they expect the game handed to them on a silver platter and with their change to boot.
Sadly, that's not SOE's fault... that's the individual player's fault... and to assume that SOE will ignore that potential cash flow (assuming it does exist) is probably even more naive than my hope that there are gamers who enjoying working towards a goal rather than buying it... course, I won't buy my mythical updates either LOL

I agree with you, but then again SOE is preying upon these temptation to bolster their bottom line, KNOWING the nature of their players is to employ this in their gaming. It doesn't take the player off the hook, but if it isn't there the temptation isn't either.

Me, I won't be using it. In fact, I highly doubt I'll be playing the game much longer, as the meer addition of this has me annoyed enough that I almost don't want to play the game. Like I said somewhere (think it was this thread), you can't make someone buy your game, but you can make them not want to buy it.

Yimway · 12-19-2008, 05:36 PM

Giralus wrote:

Atan@Unrest wrote:
Yes, the apparent backsliding on allowing SC gifting has removed the ability to use the SC system to become overpowered or uber twinked via SC. It is now just fluff and minor 'leg up' effects that can be purchased with the swipe of a card.
i havent seen one concrete post where Smed actualy states they will never impliment gifting . all i have seen is
we are rethinking our previous thoughts, and we are considering that we might not Ever impliment it
so if anything else Smed is now wording everything with a possibly maybe phrasing so that they have the leeway to add it in at an undetermined date in the future.
its the same with stationcash itself , release it with stuff so obviously designed specificly to be a bunch of junk, and even then the exp,aa,speed potions are already having an impact on the game.
so they release stationcash with junk to get your first dose of poison shoved down your mouth, and slowly they will add the goodstuff, same with Gifting, they will put it on the back burner for now but in 6 months from now when alot of people are burn out and let thier subs run out, and others have had enough of the game and cancel and others leave becuase stationcash items are introduced that imbalance the game, Then Gifting will be implimented to try and offset even more people leaving the game, have to keep the cash coming in somehow, so the more that leave the faster better sc items wil become and the faster gifting will be implimented .

No, he did not say it in concrete, absolute terms. I don't think you'll find another poster here who has challenged him and SoE more overtly and vehemently as I have on this issue. I brought the whole mythical and plat trading for updates into these forums knowing full well I'd take significant flaming here and in game as a result.

But, the language he is using around the issue now seems fairly specific that they do not intend to allow the system to be used in this manner, and if maybe somehow they can put gifting into the game with some imaginary set of rules that allow it to exist without the P2P exploitable options, then yes, I bet he'd go forward with it. I don't personally see what that option would be, but I'm sure he's just leaving space in case they do find something that they think is failsafe. If/when that day comes, I'll again see what holes I can blast thru it.

Lastly, I continue to push on the LoN RMT gateway. As while he has acknowledged the potential for P2P RMT transactions with SC gifting, and said they don't want that type of system to exist in game, at the same time he refuses to acknowledge it already exists in LoN loot trading, and we collectively should challenge him to hold this same standard to LoN loot cards as he is posturing for on SC gifting. They both enable the same forms of transactions.

I know with 100% fact mythical updates have been bought from our guild that were funded by booster pack purchaces for LoN cards to trade for plat. If trading updates for SC is an unconfortable P2P RMT gateway, the LoN loot card system is exactly the same thing.

Stuge · 12-19-2008, 05:54 PM

Another story on it - http://www.allakhazam.com/story.html?story=16377

I think what gets me the most was the suddenness of it all. Very little warning. They knew it would go over with the community like a kick in the teeth and as such didn't hold it up for scrutiny.

From a personal standpoint, so long as it remains "fluff", I'm fine. As soon as usable gear or real game advantage items hit the Marketplace, that's game over for me. As much as Team Smedlo would have us believe that won't happen, I truly believe that is the eventual end-game planned for this service.

jaguarjp · 12-19-2008, 07:04 PM

Atan@Unrest wrote:

...Lastly, I continue to push on the LoN RMT gateway. As while he has acknowledged the potential for P2P RMT transactions with SC gifting, and said they don't want that type of system to exist in game, at the same time he refuses to acknowledge it already exists in LoN loot trading, and we collectively should challenge him to hold this same standard to LoN loot cards as he is posturing for on SC gifting. They both enable the same forms of transactions.
I know with 100% fact mythical updates have been bought from our guild that were funded by booster pack purchaces for LoN cards to trade for plat. If trading updates for SC is an unconfortable P2P RMT gateway, the LoN loot card system is exactly the same thing.

This is an excellent point. However, I suspect that although Smed has been unusually active in this thread, we might not see anything directly acknowledging the exsistence of RMT facilitated by LoN. Reasons? The same reasons SOE implemented Exchange servers: they want a piece of the RMT action. Discrete servers barely made a dent, so they needed a clever way to present the option to spend extra cash in their subscription-based games to all the servers. It's why LoN won't go away, and why SC won't go away. Didn't a redname say, in this thread, that LoN can be played without ever buying a booster pack? If that isn't insulting, I don't know what is.

When we log into EQ2, we enter into a fantasy world - if anyone expects SOE to spend dollars trying to fight unsanctioned RMT, without also providing a sanctioned form of RMT, that's also high fantasy! What makes it suck so much was that the "official stance" of SOE regarding RMT, for so many years: it was bad for the server economy, etc. etc. Then came Exchange, and SOE's reputation has still not recovered, in my opinion.

So, assuming SC & LoN are here to stay, I don't think there is a single thing that would make more of a positive statement to the playerbase than to allow players the option to transfer to a no-RMT server. Except maybe for Smed to come back to this thread and attempt to provide us with some "executive insight" on how he reconciles the need to make money vs. the need to keep the players of the game happy.

Anesh · 12-20-2008, 12:20 AM

jaguarjp wrote:

So, assuming SC & LoN are here to stay, I don't think there is a single thing that would make more of a positive statement to the playerbase than to allow players the option to transfer to a no-RMT server. Except maybe for Smed to come back to this thread and attempt to provide us with some "executive insight" on how he reconciles the need to make money vs. the need to keep the players of the game happy.

I agree. Again, for the second time; please allow us to transfer to a non-SC server. Up the subscription rate for us who choose to play on the non-SC servers, but just do it, and stop ignoring me.

Wintersborn · 12-20-2008, 03:27 AM

I think most of us agree that since SC is not going to go away then let us !

Please make a new server that will NEVER EVER have any form of RMT, LoN etc.

Hell I dont even care if transfers are allowed, I would start over if it meant no RMT.

Surely this idea has been mentioned enough to get some Dev to address it or at least say "We will think about it".

Jan 2nd is comming up fast (Sub's end) and all those other game boxes are looking good on sale due to the holidays with time off to play em.

Ronin SpoilSpot · 12-20-2008, 08:17 AM

Dear SOE and John SmedleyThank you for a great game. I started playing Everquest 2 at launch, and I still think it is the best MMORPG currently available (i.e., best at matching my taste). There are so many different things to do: Adventuring (for XP or AA), crafting, harvesting, playing the broker, socializing, decorating your house, etc. Other games fall short when compared to the features and finish of EQ2 (e.g., try finding a broker that works as well as the EQ2 one in any other game!)So, it's with a sad heart that I have cancelled my subscription without intend of ever comming back, to EQ2 or any other SOE game. It's not the game. It's the company.The Station Cash introduction was the last straw. I picked, and kept, EQ2 because it did not have 1) PvP and 2) RMT.And to make it clear: To me, RMT means any way to spend more real money to gain in-game advantages over and above the base subscription and official expansions.I know that the Legends of Norrath game/loot card lottery was really the introduction of RMT, but I bit my lip and lived with it. I chose to believe Mr. Smedley when he said that RMT would never come to EQ2, and that LON was not a slippery slope to a cash shop.Now we have RMT and a cash shop. So, yes, I feel betrayed. Betrayed and lied to.Like when they moved people off the test server, something they had said would not happen. And SOE's response was, essentially, "We're so sorry ... that we got caught".No, I'm not even surprised to be lied to any more. No other company has official "We hate SOE" threads for their games on mmorpg.com. (Impressive for a company that relies on word-of-mouth for marketing!)Had it only been the cash shop, I would probably just have left silently. I have no illusions that players can get SOE to change a business decission like this. I actually did expect RMT to be introduced eventually, but not in such an underhanded way.The real kicker was the timing: Right after the release of a new expansion. Had I known before the release that EQ2 would get an item shop, I would not have bought the expansion. I know a lot of other people have said the same. I am sure that SOE knew that there were peoplewho would react like that, and that the timing was no coincidence.So we have a situation where: SOE/Smedley says that there will not be a cash shop, which turns out to be a false statement. They knows that it is no longer true, but does not retract the previousstatement. This is deliberatly done with the intent to keep us misinformed until after the release of the expansion.The players are, ofcourse, relying on this statement in their evaluation of their future interest in EQ2. Believeing that the game will stay RMT-free, they decide to invest in another year's worth of expansion. These people are now in a situation where the money spent on the expansion is wasted.I'm not a lawyer, but that sounds remarkably like the definition of fraud.And it also sounds remarkably like the trick they pulled with the SWG NGE, which was also dumped on an unsuspecting public right after an expansion release. This might not be as grievous a change, but forthe behavior, it's a difference in scale only, not in kind.The best indication of future behavior is past behavior. Or, as the saying goes: Fool me once, shame on you - fool me twice, shame on me.I won't be your fool any more, and if I stayed, I know I would be, probably sooner rather than later./RS

Nuhus · 12-20-2008, 08:34 AM

Stugein@Antonia Bayle wrote:

Another story on it - http://www.allakhazam.com/story.html?story=16377
I think what gets me the most was the suddenness of it all. Very little warning. They knew it would go over with the community like a kick in the teeth and as such didn't hold it up for scrutiny.
From a personal standpoint, so long as it remains "fluff", I'm fine. As soon as usable gear or real game advantage items hit the Marketplace, that's game over for me. As much as Team Smedlo would have us believe that won't happen, I truly believe that is the eventual end-game planned for this service.

Not to mention they throw it in our faces that it's such a "sucess". I know they tend to say we are the "vocal minority" but not in regards to suggestions heh. I have some new found respect for Tamat with that article. SMILEY

Dasein · 12-20-2008, 11:19 AM

Ronin SpoilSpot wrote:

And to make it clear: To me, RMT means any way to spend more real money to gain in-game advantages over and above the base subscription and official expansions.

Does spending money on a better computer system provide an in-game advantage? What about dropping a few bucks to get a microphone so you can use voice-chat? I'd think that gives you a much bigger advantage in TSO than a slight boost to your AAXP for a half hour. Of course,

liveja · 12-20-2008, 12:13 PM

Dasein wrote:

Ronin SpoilSpot wrote:
And to make it clear: To me, RMT means any way to spend more real money to gain in-game advantages over and above the base subscription and official expansions.
Does spending money on a better computer system provide an in-game advantage? What about dropping a few bucks to get a microphone so you can use voice-chat?

Does the term "false equation" mean anything to you?

It should, because that's precisely what you're doing here. You're equating an out-of-game purchase made with out-of-game money, to an in-game purchase made with out-of-game money. The two are NOT the same, & it pains me a great deal to see someone as intelligent & articulate as you making that mistake.

I of course assume it's a mistake, & not a rhetorical trick. I'd be disappointed to see you resorting to rhetorical tricks.

Vonotar · 12-20-2008, 12:21 PM

Dasein wrote:

Ronin SpoilSpot wrote:
And to make it clear: To me, RMT means any way to spend more real money to gain in-game advantages over and above the base subscription and official expansions.
Does spending money on a better computer system provide an in-game advantage? What about dropping a few bucks to get a microphone so you can use voice-chat? I'd think that gives you a much bigger advantage in TSO than a slight boost to your AAXP for a half hour. Of course,

You think your such a clever... don't you.

That is entirely different, as far as i'm aware Sony don't get a kickback on your computer purchases (unless your playing on a Vaio!).

We're talking about SoE selling preferencial treatment for cash (which is effective what SC boils down to).

However in the end it doesn't matter if we are being rational, logical or anything else, a portion of the playerbase is very upset with this implementation for one reason or another, so far SoE have done little to address these concerns other than to talk them down and carry on with the rollout of new items.

On a sidenote, Interesting to see that one of the sets of SC armor includes a breastplate that (around six months ago) a dwarf was complaining about seeing whenever they were in Soga mode (those who saw the thread will remember it).

So how long as this SC gear been planned for I wonder?

http://forums.station.sony.com/eq2/...topic_id=427514

Dasein · 12-20-2008, 02:53 PM

Magnamundian wrote:

However in the end it doesn't matter if we are being rational, logical or anything else, a portion of the playerbase is very upset with this implementation for one reason or another, so far SoE have done little to address these concerns other than to talk them down and carry on with the rollout of new items.
On a sidenote, Interesting to see that one of the sets of SC armor includes a breastplate that (around six months ago) a dwarf was complaining about seeing whenever they were in Soga mode (those who saw the thread will remember it).
So how long as this SC gear been planned for I wonder?
http://forums.station.sony.com/eq2/...topic_id=427514

A portion of the playerbase seems perpetually upset with SOE, and will never be happy. The most vocal critics have also decided that SOE cannot be trusted, so anything anyone from SOE says will be dismissed or twisted to be seen in the most negative manner possible. What concerns have not been addressed by SOE, in your view, and how could SOE address them?

As for how long the Station Store has been in planning, I'd say easily for over two years, likely more. Probably about the time the Free Realms business model was developed.

Andok · 12-20-2008, 03:07 PM

Flaye@Mistmoore wrote:

Dasein wrote:
Ronin SpoilSpot wrote:
And to make it clear: To me, RMT means any way to spend more real money to gain in-game advantages over and above the base subscription and official expansions.
Does spending money on a better computer system provide an in-game advantage? What about dropping a few bucks to get a microphone so you can use voice-chat?
Does the term "false equation" mean anything to you?
It should, because that's precisely what you're doing here. You're equating an out-of-game purchase made with out-of-game money, to an in-game purchase made with out-of-game money. The two are NOT the same, & it pains me a great deal to see someone as intelligent & articulate as you making that mistake.
I of course assume it's a mistake, & not a rhetorical trick. I'd be disappointed to see you resorting to rhetorical tricks.

The first guy did say "any way".

Elmoras · 12-20-2008, 03:12 PM

Can anyone tell me if Station Cash is available on ALL servers? I searched and searched and cant find an answer here. If not, then point me to the direction of those that do NOT have it

Loolee · 12-20-2008, 03:27 PM

Elmoras@Everfrost wrote:

Can anyone tell me if Station Cash is available on ALL servers? I searched and searched and cant find an answer here. If not, then point me to the direction of those that do NOT have it

It's everywhere, you can't avoid it.

Anesh · 12-20-2008, 04:01 PM

Dasein wrote:

What concerns have not been addressed by SOE

I still have yet to find an answer to my question asking Smed if can he implement non-SC servers that charge a higher base subscription fee? And if he can't, then why not?

THIS HAS NOT BEEN ADDRESSED.

Giral · 12-20-2008, 05:19 PM

Dasein wrote:

Magnamundian wrote:
However in the end it doesn't matter if we are being rational, logical or anything else, a portion of the playerbase is very upset with this implementation for one reason or another, so far SoE have done little to address these concerns other than to talk them down and carry on with the rollout of new items.
On a sidenote, Interesting to see that one of the sets of SC armor includes a breastplate that (around six months ago) a dwarf was complaining about seeing whenever they were in Soga mode (those who saw the thread will remember it).
So how long as this SC gear been planned for I wonder?
http://forums.station.sony.com/eq2/...topic_id=427514
A portion of the playerbase seems perpetually upset with SOE, and will never be happy. The most vocal critics have also decided that SOE cannot be trusted, so anything anyone from SOE says will be dismissed or twisted to be seen in the most negative manner possible. What concerns have not been addressed by SOE, in your view, and how could SOE address them?
As for how long the Station Store has been in planning, I'd say easily for over two years, likely more. Probably about the time the Free Realms business model was developed.

funny as i am seeing alot of longtime players upset over this , how does that equate to "a portion of the playerbase is perpetualy upset with soe ? "

i was thoroughly enjoying TSO, i have payed to pay since release(as a shadowknight no less : ) i have had my issue's with the game as everyone does on some level.

but to try and lump the majority of people that are against RMT being added to the game after the COE(SMED) had stated " no way shape or from EVER..EVER " is just a load of crap

if anyone can't understand why people are upset about it and why some people have canceled i will say it again

people chose to play a NON RMT (type) Game, people Payed thier Subs with the knowlegde directly from the COE ( Smed) that we would not have RMT on the Normal servers EVER, and was the whole reason for exchange servers

people that have invested alot of time into the game, have friends, family and guildies they have known for 4 or less years need to make a decision suddenly when Stationcash was Slipped onto live servers without any warning, either A ) leave your friends/guildies and everything you Personaly achieved in the game ,, or B ) swallow your pride,morals,ethics, and continue to play a game that has introduced a feature promised to never be there to stay with your friends guildies, and not lose everything you aquired thru actualy Playing the game AND and hope that a Future update sometime in the near or far future will not go to far and you will have to cancel anyway.

........

some of the playerbase left (quietly) some are leaving vocaly,others are staying and being vocal about thier opinion on RMT, some people are staying and canceling if just one item is overboard , others will stay and if a few items negate thier tradeskiller/transmuter/advunture class will leave,,

the community is very divided , and alot of people are uncomfortable and uneasy loging in anymore, some people are ignoring it, but thankfully the world doesnt revolve around the people that just ignore what is going on around them, and you have a minority of people that will buy stationcash items even if it is complete Junk ( like the introductory specialy picked stuff they added with RMT to make it seem like it was all FLuff) ,,

again i have enjoyed palying eq2, and was enjoying it up until last week as Many other people were , the way this was implimented the Fact there are NO servers without it is a farce , it is either Like it or Leave ,,, and thats a realy crappy business aproach no matter how you look at it or want to spin it .

eq2 has turned intoa game with many options and then suddenly RMT is forced apon everyone ? you can pick an exchange server, you can pick a pvp server, you can choose from hundreds of diffrent prsonal settings, etc etc etc , but you can not choose to play on a Sub-based server like you were just lastweek ??? it stanks something fierce.

and to have the Mods telling us " stationcash is a Huge success" is just pathetic ,,, people are leaving, people are afraid to log in, people are afraid of the next SC update, people are afraid of there achievments and accompliments that took them weeks,months and in some cases years , to be negated in a microsecond by a credit card swipe,people blacklisting players,people ading sc users to ignore,guilds banning use of SC,,,,,,<_--- does not sound like a healthy fun game environment to me , or a Huge success .

Xagoth · 12-20-2008, 05:53 PM

I am seeing a lot of posts with people wanting a non Station Cash server.

But my question is, why was Station Cash not introduced on a new single server with free transfers?

That way, people that are interested in it could move to it for free and if it was a success they could open up another server.

I just don't see why this was forced on all servers.

Krugus · 12-20-2008, 06:16 PM

Xagoth wrote:

I am seeing a lot of posts with people wanting a non Station Cash server.
But my question is, why was Station Cash not introduced on a new single server with free transfers?
That way, people that are interested in it could move to it for free and if it was a success they could open up another server.
I just don't see why this was forced on all servers.

At this point. Even if they added a non SC server, I just don't see myself as coming back.

I'll be logging in sometime this weekend on both of my accounts and deleting all my characters. SoE is not a company I'm willing to keep paying money to any more.

I'm not ranting, Just stating a fact that SC is the final straw in a long list of lies which is causing me quit and leaving the game and SoE for good.

bleap · 12-20-2008, 10:10 PM

Aneshia@Oasis wrote:

Dasein wrote:
What concerns have not been addressed by SOE
I still have yet to find an answer to my question asking Smed if can he implement non-SC servers that charge a higher base subscription fee? And if he can't, then why not?
THIS HAS NOT BEEN ADDRESSED.

I don't have the answer but if I had to speculate I would he could...BUT would it be profitable? How many people do you know willing to pay more for the game just to escape the SC? Use your veto in a better way. Just quit playing...If enough people do they MAY cancel the project and you can go back to playing..

Guy De Alsace · 12-20-2008, 10:24 PM

Just like to say this has had zero impact on my server from what I have seen. Nobody wants or even cares about SC since the products on offer are insanely overpriced and also available in the game anyway.

Why would anyone want an xp potion when its already way too easy to level?

The rest of the dross on offer is a non-event.

The Radar Rat · 12-20-2008, 10:31 PM

Krugus wrote:

Xagoth wrote:
I am seeing a lot of posts with people wanting a non Station Cash server.
But my question is, why was Station Cash not introduced on a new single server with free transfers?
That way, people that are interested in it could move to it for free and if it was a success they could open up another server.
I just don't see why this was forced on all servers.
At this point. Even if they added a non SC server, I just don't see myself as coming back.
I'll be logging in sometime this weekend on both of my accounts and deleting all my characters. SoE is not a company I'm willing to keep paying money to any more.
I'm not ranting, Just stating a fact that SC is the final straw in a long list of lies which is causing me quit and leaving the game and SoE for good.

Unfortunately the problem is bigger than just SOE , we all know why they dumped this on people without asking first, it's the age old saying "it's easier to get forgiveness than it is to get permission" , which basically is the same reason that advertisers use opt-out advertising instead of opt-in .. if it was opt-in nobody would sign up to it, so they dump it on people and hope that if they do it for long enough people will eventually accept it as normal..

If what ive been reading around the net is acurate though... it's not just SOE thats jumping on the micro-transaction greed-wagon ..

----------------------------

Square-enix are supposed to be considering micro-transactions in the next final fantasy MMO..

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v...xi/SEnewMMO.jpg

----------------------------

someone who was hacking the lich king expansion files found code supporting micro-transactions for World of warcraft..

http://blog.wired.com/games/2008/10...transactio.html

-----------------------------

the next star-wars MMO is supposed to be being based off micro-transactions as well...

http://www.digitalspy.co.uk/gaming/...ansactions.html

-----------------------------

im sure many other companies are also considering it, and it's a real shame to invest so much time and subscription money into an MMO only to be stabbed in the back by the company because at the end of the day.. no matter how much we like the game. the company that created it did so to make as big a profit as they can, and they will put profit before the wishes of the subscribers every time..

bryldan · 12-20-2008, 10:36 PM

Guy De Alsace wrote:

Just like to say this has had zero impact on my server from what I have seen. Nobody wants or even cares about SC since the products on offer are insanely overpriced and also available in the game anyway.
Why would anyone want an xp potion when its already way too easy to level?
The rest of the dross on offer is a non-event.

Ummm aa xp potion offered in game? 40% run speed potion to ALL levels offered in game?

The better question is why even question those that are angry over this?

Why is ANYONE questioning ANYONE that is angry over this? They in turn says it doesnt bother them YET they are ones pretty much defending this decision with SOE. If it doesnt bother them then why are they even bothering to post on the subject? Are they afraid of ppl leaving? Because in the end that will effect the way they play. Afterall less subs = less grouping so in the end it IS going to effect the way they play. The only other option they are here to defend is that they are SOE lackeys and want to get on there good side for some strange demented reason.

Anesh · 12-20-2008, 11:52 PM

bleap wrote:

Aneshia@Oasis wrote:
Dasein wrote:
What concerns have not been addressed by SOE
I still have yet to find an answer to my question asking Smed if can he implement non-SC servers that charge a higher base subscription fee? And if he can't, then why not?
THIS HAS NOT BEEN ADDRESSED.
I don't have the answer but if I had to speculate I would he could...BUT would it be profitable? How am I supposed to know? I don't work in their accounting department. How many people do you know willing to pay more for the game just to escape the SC? I haven't taken a poll, that's SOE's job to keep track of their customor base, not mine. Use your veto in a better way. Just quit playing...If enough people do they MAY cancel the project and you can go back to playing.. I DID quit playing.

I still want an answer.

bleap · 12-21-2008, 01:04 AM

Aneshia@Oasis wrote:

bleap wrote:
Aneshia@Oasis wrote:
Dasein wrote:
What concerns have not been addressed by SOE
I still have yet to find an answer to my question asking Smed if can he implement non-SC servers that charge a higher base subscription fee? And if he can't, then why not?
THIS HAS NOT BEEN ADDRESSED.
I don't have the answer but if I had to speculate I would he could...BUT would it be profitable? How am I supposed to know? I don't work in their accounting department.
It was rhetorical, I didn't think you did. I sure don't.
How many people do you know willing to pay more for the game just to escape the SC? I haven't taken a poll, that's SOE's job to keep track of their customor base, not mine
Would you believe them if they professed to have taken one?I certainly wouldn't have. They claim to have taken a survey to see how the SC would go over...They surveyed a group of sycophants at a fan faire with probably less than 1% of the player base there....
. Use your veto in a better way. Just quit playing...If enough people do they MAY cancel the project and you can go back to playing.. I DID quit playing.
As have I and my husband. We are now playing LoTRO with friends who also have quit EQ2. I won't rule out a return to EQ2 but not as long as they offer SC. The slippery slope has been breached. It's now just time to see how long it takes to get to the bottom.
I still want an answer.

I doubt you will get one here.

Laoch69 · 12-21-2008, 04:39 PM

I had posted, about a year ago, asking if there was ever going to be a one time race change option available, I was asking for a friend of mine, who was wanting to change from a froglok to a kerran. Besides the flaming, from "game altering to, just roll a new guy" there was also a response from SoE, that they had no intention of implementing this type of feature.

Well, guess what, they are thinking of implementing it, but now you get to pay $$ to do so. Not only that, but with speed potions(just one example), Woodworkers get to compete DIRECTLY with SoE and Station Cash.

SoE, do you not see what you are doing to what was a fantastic game?

12-19-2008, 05:19 PM	#1171
Rast General Join Date: Nov 2004 Posts: 1,805	Kierva@Befallen wrote: Atan@Unrest wrote: Kierva@Befallen wrote: SOE is currently not removing the aspect of being rewarded for determination. They have not added anything that is more overpowered than what is currently in game. They have not made it so the only way a player can compete is to pay for it. Yes, someone could level faster, get achievements faster... and yeah, it kinda stinks... but that doesn't break the game... Yes, the apparent backsliding on allowing SC gifting has removed the ability to use the SC system to become overpowered or uber twinked via SC. It is now just fluff and minor 'leg up' effects that can be purchased with the swipe of a card. And I hold to the fact that the underlying assumption in your last statement is that players will use the minor 'leg up'... I, probably foolishly, hold our fellow players to a higher standard than that... I just don't see how we as rational individuals can blame SOE responsible for people actually buying the items... true, SOE added the ability for people to get 'an edge'... but that doesn't mean people have to use it... For someone to imply that SOE has destroyed the game by giving us that option... assumes that people will use that option... and I don't think they will... I, unfortunately, don't agree with your optimism... if it is available, people will use it, whether it is legal or not. But then, I became a bit jaded after my time in Shadowbane about the integrity of players... People will, unfortunaly, in most cases take any advantage they can get, whether it is minor or not, if it gives them the feeling of 'winning'. I really wish your world was more the one we are in, but look at all the people who have actively exploited, used bots, bought plat from RMT vendors, etc... I don't do it, but in this 'give me now mentality' that (at least) the US has, they expect the game handed to them on a silver platter and with their change to boot. __________________ Ancient Council Jalathan T'Varik (90 Paladin) Rhapsodee Windsong (90 Troubador) Garaok (90 Brigand) Tytherian (90 Templar) Shaydroth (51 Illusionist) Raston Roderick (28 Assassin) Saphyrria (21 Warlock) Concordia Discors Jalathe Stoneshield (34 Guardian)

12-19-2008, 05:23 PM	#1172
KachikoJa General Join Date: Nov 2004 Posts: 85	Jalathan@Antonia Bayle wrote: Kierva@Befallen wrote: Atan@Unrest wrote: Kierva@Befallen wrote: SOE is currently not removing the aspect of being rewarded for determination. They have not added anything that is more overpowered than what is currently in game. They have not made it so the only way a player can compete is to pay for it. Yes, someone could level faster, get achievements faster... and yeah, it kinda stinks... but that doesn't break the game... Yes, the apparent backsliding on allowing SC gifting has removed the ability to use the SC system to become overpowered or uber twinked via SC. It is now just fluff and minor 'leg up' effects that can be purchased with the swipe of a card. And I hold to the fact that the underlying assumption in your last statement is that players will use the minor 'leg up'... I, probably foolishly, hold our fellow players to a higher standard than that... I just don't see how we as rational individuals can blame SOE responsible for people actually buying the items... true, SOE added the ability for people to get 'an edge'... but that doesn't mean people have to use it... For someone to imply that SOE has destroyed the game by giving us that option... assumes that people will use that option... and I don't think they will... I, unfortunately, don't agree with your optimism... if it is available, people will use it, whether it is legal or not. But then, I became a bit jaded after my time in Shadowbane about the integrity of players... People will, unfortunaly, in most cases take any advantage they can get, whether it is minor or not, if it gives them the feeling of 'winning'. I really wish your world was more the one we are in, but look at all the people who have actively exploited, used bots, bought plat from RMT vendors, etc... I don't do it, but in this 'give me now mentality' that (at least) the US has, they expect the game handed to them on a silver platter and with their change to boot. Sadly, that's not SOE's fault... that's the individual player's fault... and to assume that SOE will ignore that potential cash flow (assuming it does exist) is probably even more naive than my hope that there are gamers who enjoying working towards a goal rather than buying it... course, I won't buy my mythical updates either LOL __________________

12-19-2008, 05:24 PM	#1173
Rast General Join Date: Nov 2004 Posts: 1,805	Kierva@Befallen wrote: Jalathan@Antonia Bayle wrote: Atan@Unrest wrote: Kierva@Befallen wrote: SOE is currently not removing the aspect of being rewarded for determination. They have not added anything that is more overpowered than what is currently in game. They have not made it so the only way a player can compete is to pay for it. Yes, someone could level faster, get achievements faster... and yeah, it kinda stinks... but that doesn't break the game... Yes, the apparent backsliding on allowing SC gifting has removed the ability to use the SC system to become overpowered or uber twinked via SC. It is now just fluff and minor 'leg up' effects that can be purchased with the swipe of a card. Ask the PvPers if a no level limit 40% speed pot isn't overpowered or a bonus to AAxp isn't overpower, I think you'll find a different answer to them. These things are game altering to them, they aren't as much to PvE because WE pick when we fight and what we fight (most of the time anyways) Playing from day one... all I can say is sorry... EQ2 was originally released as a PvE game only... I don't think they should have added PvP at a later date.... not because I hate PvP, but because I think PvP is a different level of complexity that should be included with the original game design... And still I say... what type of character do you think the players have that buy the 40% run speed potion... once again... if no one bought the potion, it wouldn't matter that it was for sale... so, I guess... I'm sorry that there are people that feel the need to cheat... so they can feel like they're better than someone else... Oh, personally I agree with you. I don't play on a PvP server and I knew that it was bad news for us PvE folks when they announced it (because nerfs tend to happen just because of PvP and the concept of balance). But that doesn't mean they don't pay their money too. The whole post is to push the concept that what is fluff to one person can be game breaking for another. To me, as a RPer who has left the raiding community, I find that people consider the appearance armor fluff to be appauling. To me, appearance armor can be as game enhancing as any raid gear. Yes, it may not impact my 'combat ability', but this game is more than just combat to many people. __________________ Ancient Council Jalathan T'Varik (90 Paladin) Rhapsodee Windsong (90 Troubador) Garaok (90 Brigand) Tytherian (90 Templar) Shaydroth (51 Illusionist) Raston Roderick (28 Assassin) Saphyrria (21 Warlock) Concordia Discors Jalathe Stoneshield (34 Guardian)

12-19-2008, 05:26 PM	#1174
Giral General Join Date: Dec 2004 Posts: 894	Atan@Unrest wrote: Kierva@Befallen wrote: SOE is currently not removing the aspect of being rewarded for determination. They have not added anything that is more overpowered than what is currently in game. They have not made it so the only way a player can compete is to pay for it. Yes, someone could level faster, get achievements faster... and yeah, it kinda stinks... but that doesn't break the game... Yes, the apparent backsliding on allowing SC gifting has removed the ability to use the SC system to become overpowered or uber twinked via SC. It is now just fluff and minor 'leg up' effects that can be purchased with the swipe of a card. i havent seen one concrete post where Smed actualy states they will never impliment gifting . all i have seen is we are rethinking our previous thoughts, and we are considering that we might not Ever impliment it so if anything else Smed is now wording everything with a possibly maybe phrasing so that they have the leeway to add it in at an undetermined date in the future. its the same with stationcash itself , release it with stuff so obviously designed specificly to be a bunch of junk, and even then the exp,aa,speed potions are already having an impact on the game. so they release stationcash with junk to get your first dose of poison shoved down your mouth, and slowly they will add the goodstuff, same with Gifting, they will put it on the back burner for now but in 6 months from now when alot of people are burn out and let thier subs run out, and others have had enough of the game and cancel and others leave becuase stationcash items are introduced that imbalance the game, Then Gifting will be implimented to try and offset even more people leaving the game, have to keep the cash coming in somehow, so the more that leave the faster better sc items wil become and the faster gifting will be implimented . __________________ who's more of a Fool, the fool or the fool who follows the fool. . . Account Terminated as of 12-27-08, RMT=Evil

12-19-2008, 05:27 PM	#1175
Rast General Join Date: Nov 2004 Posts: 1,805	Kierva@Befallen wrote: Jalathan@Antonia Bayle wrote: Kierva@Befallen wrote: Atan@Unrest wrote: Kierva@Befallen wrote: SOE is currently not removing the aspect of being rewarded for determination. They have not added anything that is more overpowered than what is currently in game. They have not made it so the only way a player can compete is to pay for it. Yes, someone could level faster, get achievements faster... and yeah, it kinda stinks... but that doesn't break the game... Yes, the apparent backsliding on allowing SC gifting has removed the ability to use the SC system to become overpowered or uber twinked via SC. It is now just fluff and minor 'leg up' effects that can be purchased with the swipe of a card. And I hold to the fact that the underlying assumption in your last statement is that players will use the minor 'leg up'... I, probably foolishly, hold our fellow players to a higher standard than that... I just don't see how we as rational individuals can blame SOE responsible for people actually buying the items... true, SOE added the ability for people to get 'an edge'... but that doesn't mean people have to use it... For someone to imply that SOE has destroyed the game by giving us that option... assumes that people will use that option... and I don't think they will... I, unfortunately, don't agree with your optimism... if it is available, people will use it, whether it is legal or not. But then, I became a bit jaded after my time in Shadowbane about the integrity of players... People will, unfortunaly, in most cases take any advantage they can get, whether it is minor or not, if it gives them the feeling of 'winning'. I really wish your world was more the one we are in, but look at all the people who have actively exploited, used bots, bought plat from RMT vendors, etc... I don't do it, but in this 'give me now mentality' that (at least) the US has, they expect the game handed to them on a silver platter and with their change to boot. Sadly, that's not SOE's fault... that's the individual player's fault... and to assume that SOE will ignore that potential cash flow (assuming it does exist) is probably even more naive than my hope that there are gamers who enjoying working towards a goal rather than buying it... course, I won't buy my mythical updates either LOL I agree with you, but then again SOE is preying upon these temptation to bolster their bottom line, KNOWING the nature of their players is to employ this in their gaming. It doesn't take the player off the hook, but if it isn't there the temptation isn't either. Me, I won't be using it. In fact, I highly doubt I'll be playing the game much longer, as the meer addition of this has me annoyed enough that I almost don't want to play the game. Like I said somewhere (think it was this thread), you can't make someone buy your game, but you can make them not want to buy it. __________________ Ancient Council Jalathan T'Varik (90 Paladin) Rhapsodee Windsong (90 Troubador) Garaok (90 Brigand) Tytherian (90 Templar) Shaydroth (51 Illusionist) Raston Roderick (28 Assassin) Saphyrria (21 Warlock) Concordia Discors Jalathe Stoneshield (34 Guardian)

12-19-2008, 05:36 PM	#1176
Yimway Loremaster Join Date: Apr 2005 Posts: 9,707	Giralus wrote: Atan@Unrest wrote: Yes, the apparent backsliding on allowing SC gifting has removed the ability to use the SC system to become overpowered or uber twinked via SC. It is now just fluff and minor 'leg up' effects that can be purchased with the swipe of a card. i havent seen one concrete post where Smed actualy states they will never impliment gifting . all i have seen is we are rethinking our previous thoughts, and we are considering that we might not Ever impliment it so if anything else Smed is now wording everything with a possibly maybe phrasing so that they have the leeway to add it in at an undetermined date in the future. its the same with stationcash itself , release it with stuff so obviously designed specificly to be a bunch of junk, and even then the exp,aa,speed potions are already having an impact on the game. so they release stationcash with junk to get your first dose of poison shoved down your mouth, and slowly they will add the goodstuff, same with Gifting, they will put it on the back burner for now but in 6 months from now when alot of people are burn out and let thier subs run out, and others have had enough of the game and cancel and others leave becuase stationcash items are introduced that imbalance the game, Then Gifting will be implimented to try and offset even more people leaving the game, have to keep the cash coming in somehow, so the more that leave the faster better sc items wil become and the faster gifting will be implimented . No, he did not say it in concrete, absolute terms. I don't think you'll find another poster here who has challenged him and SoE more overtly and vehemently as I have on this issue. I brought the whole mythical and plat trading for updates into these forums knowing full well I'd take significant flaming here and in game as a result. But, the language he is using around the issue now seems fairly specific that they do not intend to allow the system to be used in this manner, and if maybe somehow they can put gifting into the game with some imaginary set of rules that allow it to exist without the P2P exploitable options, then yes, I bet he'd go forward with it. I don't personally see what that option would be, but I'm sure he's just leaving space in case they do find something that they think is failsafe. If/when that day comes, I'll again see what holes I can blast thru it. Lastly, I continue to push on the LoN RMT gateway. As while he has acknowledged the potential for P2P RMT transactions with SC gifting, and said they don't want that type of system to exist in game, at the same time he refuses to acknowledge it already exists in LoN loot trading, and we collectively should challenge him to hold this same standard to LoN loot cards as he is posturing for on SC gifting. They both enable the same forms of transactions. I know with 100% fact mythical updates have been bought from our guild that were funded by booster pack purchaces for LoN cards to trade for plat. If trading updates for SC is an unconfortable P2P RMT gateway, the LoN loot card system is exactly the same thing. __________________

12-19-2008, 05:54 PM	#1177
Stuge General Join Date: May 2005 Posts: 283	Another story on it - http://www.allakhazam.com/story.html?story=16377 I think what gets me the most was the suddenness of it all. Very little warning. They knew it would go over with the community like a kick in the teeth and as such didn't hold it up for scrutiny. From a personal standpoint, so long as it remains "fluff", I'm fine. As soon as usable gear or real game advantage items hit the Marketplace, that's game over for me. As much as Team Smedlo would have us believe that won't happen, I truly believe that is the eventual end-game planned for this service. __________________ Stugein - <Mediocrity>, Antonia Bayle <Gnobrin> it's maaaaaaaagic! * Gnobrin/#EQ2 throws magic powder <Gnobrin> ::rainbow:: Time to Be Bad - Complete Qeynos/Kelethin-to-Freeport Betrayal Guide

12-19-2008, 07:04 PM	#1178
jaguarjp Loremaster Join Date: Jun 2008 Posts: 207	Atan@Unrest wrote: ...Lastly, I continue to push on the LoN RMT gateway. As while he has acknowledged the potential for P2P RMT transactions with SC gifting, and said they don't want that type of system to exist in game, at the same time he refuses to acknowledge it already exists in LoN loot trading, and we collectively should challenge him to hold this same standard to LoN loot cards as he is posturing for on SC gifting. They both enable the same forms of transactions. I know with 100% fact mythical updates have been bought from our guild that were funded by booster pack purchaces for LoN cards to trade for plat. If trading updates for SC is an unconfortable P2P RMT gateway, the LoN loot card system is exactly the same thing. This is an excellent point. However, I suspect that although Smed has been unusually active in this thread, we might not see anything directly acknowledging the exsistence of RMT facilitated by LoN. Reasons? The same reasons SOE implemented Exchange servers: they want a piece of the RMT action. Discrete servers barely made a dent, so they needed a clever way to present the option to spend extra cash in their subscription-based games to all the servers. It's why LoN won't go away, and why SC won't go away. Didn't a redname say, in this thread, that LoN can be played without ever buying a booster pack? If that isn't insulting, I don't know what is. When we log into EQ2, we enter into a fantasy world - if anyone expects SOE to spend dollars trying to fight unsanctioned RMT, without also providing a sanctioned form of RMT, that's also high fantasy! What makes it suck so much was that the "official stance" of SOE regarding RMT, for so many years: it was bad for the server economy, etc. etc. Then came Exchange, and SOE's reputation has still not recovered, in my opinion. So, assuming SC & LoN are here to stay, I don't think there is a single thing that would make more of a positive statement to the playerbase than to allow players the option to transfer to a no-RMT server. Except maybe for Smed to come back to this thread and attempt to provide us with some "executive insight" on how he reconciles the need to make money vs. the need to keep the players of the game happy. __________________ "...We will not have this thread on the forums..." ~Kiara, 07/27/2009 20:59:52

12-20-2008, 12:20 AM	#1179
Anesh Server: Oasis Guild: Crimson Knights Rank: Silver Knight General Join Date: Jun 2006 Posts: 83	jaguarjp wrote: So, assuming SC & LoN are here to stay, I don't think there is a single thing that would make more of a positive statement to the playerbase than to allow players the option to transfer to a no-RMT server. Except maybe for Smed to come back to this thread and attempt to provide us with some "executive insight" on how he reconciles the need to make money vs. the need to keep the players of the game happy. I agree. Again, for the second time; please allow us to transfer to a non-SC server. Up the subscription rate for us who choose to play on the non-SC servers, but just do it, and stop ignoring me.

12-20-2008, 03:27 AM	#1180
Wintersborn Loremaster Join Date: Nov 2004 Posts: 92	I think most of us agree that since SC is not going to go away then let us ! Please make a new server that will NEVER EVER have any form of RMT, LoN etc. Hell I dont even care if transfers are allowed, I would start over if it meant no RMT. Surely this idea has been mentioned enough to get some Dev to address it or at least say "We will think about it". Jan 2nd is comming up fast (Sub's end) and all those other game boxes are looking good on sale due to the holidays with time off to play em. __________________ More solo content and Item variations please.

12-20-2008, 08:17 AM	#1181
Ronin SpoilSpot Loremaster Join Date: Nov 2004 Posts: 90	Dear SOE and John SmedleyThank you for a great game. I started playing Everquest 2 at launch, and I still think it is the best MMORPG currently available (i.e., best at matching my taste). There are so many different things to do: Adventuring (for XP or AA), crafting, harvesting, playing the broker, socializing, decorating your house, etc. Other games fall short when compared to the features and finish of EQ2 (e.g., try finding a broker that works as well as the EQ2 one in any other game!)So, it's with a sad heart that I have cancelled my subscription without intend of ever comming back, to EQ2 or any other SOE game. It's not the game. It's the company.The Station Cash introduction was the last straw. I picked, and kept, EQ2 because it did not have 1) PvP and 2) RMT.And to make it clear: To me, RMT means any way to spend more real money to gain in-game advantages over and above the base subscription and official expansions.I know that the Legends of Norrath game/loot card lottery was really the introduction of RMT, but I bit my lip and lived with it. I chose to believe Mr. Smedley when he said that RMT would never come to EQ2, and that LON was not a slippery slope to a cash shop.Now we have RMT and a cash shop. So, yes, I feel betrayed. Betrayed and lied to.Like when they moved people off the test server, something they had said would not happen. And SOE's response was, essentially, "We're so sorry ... that we got caught".No, I'm not even surprised to be lied to any more. No other company has official "We hate SOE" threads for their games on mmorpg.com. (Impressive for a company that relies on word-of-mouth for marketing!)Had it only been the cash shop, I would probably just have left silently. I have no illusions that players can get SOE to change a business decission like this. I actually did expect RMT to be introduced eventually, but not in such an underhanded way.The real kicker was the timing: Right after the release of a new expansion. Had I known before the release that EQ2 would get an item shop, I would not have bought the expansion. I know a lot of other people have said the same. I am sure that SOE knew that there were peoplewho would react like that, and that the timing was no coincidence.So we have a situation where: SOE/Smedley says that there will not be a cash shop, which turns out to be a false statement. They knows that it is no longer true, but does not retract the previousstatement. This is deliberatly done with the intent to keep us misinformed until after the release of the expansion.The players are, ofcourse, relying on this statement in their evaluation of their future interest in EQ2. Believeing that the game will stay RMT-free, they decide to invest in another year's worth of expansion. These people are now in a situation where the money spent on the expansion is wasted.I'm not a lawyer, but that sounds remarkably like the definition of fraud.And it also sounds remarkably like the trick they pulled with the SWG NGE, which was also dumped on an unsuspecting public right after an expansion release. This might not be as grievous a change, but forthe behavior, it's a difference in scale only, not in kind.The best indication of future behavior is past behavior. Or, as the saying goes: Fool me once, shame on you - fool me twice, shame on me.I won't be your fool any more, and if I stayed, I know I would be, probably sooner rather than later./RS __________________ No RMT in EQ2! Quit 2008-12-12.

12-20-2008, 08:34 AM	#1182
Nuhus Loremaster Join Date: Nov 2004 Posts: 1,480	Stugein@Antonia Bayle wrote: Another story on it - http://www.allakhazam.com/story.html?story=16377 I think what gets me the most was the suddenness of it all. Very little warning. They knew it would go over with the community like a kick in the teeth and as such didn't hold it up for scrutiny. From a personal standpoint, so long as it remains "fluff", I'm fine. As soon as usable gear or real game advantage items hit the Marketplace, that's game over for me. As much as Team Smedlo would have us believe that won't happen, I truly believe that is the eventual end-game planned for this service. Not to mention they throw it in our faces that it's such a "sucess". I know they tend to say we are the "vocal minority" but not in regards to suggestions heh. I have some new found respect for Tamat with that article. __________________ SOE will kill off EQ2 before it would naturally die.. 11/10/2004-9/19/2010 - for me

12-20-2008, 11:19 AM	#1183
Dasein Loremaster Join Date: Nov 2004 Posts: 2,847	Ronin SpoilSpot wrote: And to make it clear: To me, RMT means any way to spend more real money to gain in-game advantages over and above the base subscription and official expansions. Does spending money on a better computer system provide an in-game advantage? What about dropping a few bucks to get a microphone so you can use voice-chat? I'd think that gives you a much bigger advantage in TSO than a slight boost to your AAXP for a half hour. Of course, __________________ Troll Lord Casywdian

12-20-2008, 12:13 PM	#1184
liveja General Join Date: Sep 2005 Location: Foster's Home For Imaginary Friends Posts: 4,793	Dasein wrote: Ronin SpoilSpot wrote: And to make it clear: To me, RMT means any way to spend more real money to gain in-game advantages over and above the base subscription and official expansions. Does spending money on a better computer system provide an in-game advantage? What about dropping a few bucks to get a microphone so you can use voice-chat? Does the term "false equation" mean anything to you? It should, because that's precisely what you're doing here. You're equating an out-of-game purchase made with out-of-game money, to an in-game purchase made with out-of-game money. The two are NOT the same, & it pains me a great deal to see someone as intelligent & articulate as you making that mistake. I of course assume it's a mistake, & not a rhetorical trick. I'd be disappointed to see you resorting to rhetorical tricks. __________________

12-20-2008, 12:21 PM	#1185
Vonotar Server: Butcherblock Loremaster Join Date: May 2006 Posts: 1,697	Dasein wrote: Ronin SpoilSpot wrote: And to make it clear: To me, RMT means any way to spend more real money to gain in-game advantages over and above the base subscription and official expansions. Does spending money on a better computer system provide an in-game advantage? What about dropping a few bucks to get a microphone so you can use voice-chat? I'd think that gives you a much bigger advantage in TSO than a slight boost to your AAXP for a half hour. Of course, You think your such a clever... don't you. That is entirely different, as far as i'm aware Sony don't get a kickback on your computer purchases (unless your playing on a Vaio!). We're talking about SoE selling preferencial treatment for cash (which is effective what SC boils down to). However in the end it doesn't matter if we are being rational, logical or anything else, a portion of the playerbase is very upset with this implementation for one reason or another, so far SoE have done little to address these concerns other than to talk them down and carry on with the rollout of new items. On a sidenote, Interesting to see that one of the sets of SC armor includes a breastplate that (around six months ago) a dwarf was complaining about seeing whenever they were in Soga mode (those who saw the thread will remember it). So how long as this SC gear been planned for I wonder? http://forums.station.sony.com/eq2/...topic_id=427514

12-20-2008, 02:53 PM	#1186
Dasein Loremaster Join Date: Nov 2004 Posts: 2,847	Magnamundian wrote: However in the end it doesn't matter if we are being rational, logical or anything else, a portion of the playerbase is very upset with this implementation for one reason or another, so far SoE have done little to address these concerns other than to talk them down and carry on with the rollout of new items. On a sidenote, Interesting to see that one of the sets of SC armor includes a breastplate that (around six months ago) a dwarf was complaining about seeing whenever they were in Soga mode (those who saw the thread will remember it). So how long as this SC gear been planned for I wonder? http://forums.station.sony.com/eq2/...topic_id=427514 A portion of the playerbase seems perpetually upset with SOE, and will never be happy. The most vocal critics have also decided that SOE cannot be trusted, so anything anyone from SOE says will be dismissed or twisted to be seen in the most negative manner possible. What concerns have not been addressed by SOE, in your view, and how could SOE address them? As for how long the Station Store has been in planning, I'd say easily for over two years, likely more. Probably about the time the Free Realms business model was developed. __________________ Troll Lord Casywdian

12-20-2008, 03:07 PM	#1187
Andok Loremaster Join Date: Aug 2006 Location: San Diego, CA Posts: 1,039	Flaye@Mistmoore wrote: Dasein wrote: Ronin SpoilSpot wrote: And to make it clear: To me, RMT means any way to spend more real money to gain in-game advantages over and above the base subscription and official expansions. Does spending money on a better computer system provide an in-game advantage? What about dropping a few bucks to get a microphone so you can use voice-chat? Does the term "false equation" mean anything to you? It should, because that's precisely what you're doing here. You're equating an out-of-game purchase made with out-of-game money, to an in-game purchase made with out-of-game money. The two are NOT the same, & it pains me a great deal to see someone as intelligent & articulate as you making that mistake. I of course assume it's a mistake, & not a rhetorical trick. I'd be disappointed to see you resorting to rhetorical tricks. The first guy did say "any way".

12-20-2008, 03:12 PM	#1188
Elmoras Server: Everfrost Seer Join Date: Mar 2008 Posts: 58	Can anyone tell me if Station Cash is available on ALL servers? I searched and searched and cant find an answer here. If not, then point me to the direction of those that do NOT have it __________________

12-20-2008, 03:27 PM	#1189
Loolee Loremaster Join Date: Nov 2004 Location: Florida Posts: 757	Elmoras@Everfrost wrote: Can anyone tell me if Station Cash is available on ALL servers? I searched and searched and cant find an answer here. If not, then point me to the direction of those that do NOT have it It's everywhere, you can't avoid it.

12-20-2008, 04:01 PM	#1190
Anesh Server: Oasis Guild: Crimson Knights Rank: Silver Knight General Join Date: Jun 2006 Posts: 83	Dasein wrote: What concerns have not been addressed by SOE I still have yet to find an answer to my question asking Smed if can he implement non-SC servers that charge a higher base subscription fee? And if he can't, then why not? THIS HAS NOT BEEN ADDRESSED.

12-20-2008, 05:19 PM	#1191
Giral General Join Date: Dec 2004 Posts: 894	Dasein wrote: Magnamundian wrote: However in the end it doesn't matter if we are being rational, logical or anything else, a portion of the playerbase is very upset with this implementation for one reason or another, so far SoE have done little to address these concerns other than to talk them down and carry on with the rollout of new items. On a sidenote, Interesting to see that one of the sets of SC armor includes a breastplate that (around six months ago) a dwarf was complaining about seeing whenever they were in Soga mode (those who saw the thread will remember it). So how long as this SC gear been planned for I wonder? http://forums.station.sony.com/eq2/...topic_id=427514 A portion of the playerbase seems perpetually upset with SOE, and will never be happy. The most vocal critics have also decided that SOE cannot be trusted, so anything anyone from SOE says will be dismissed or twisted to be seen in the most negative manner possible. What concerns have not been addressed by SOE, in your view, and how could SOE address them? As for how long the Station Store has been in planning, I'd say easily for over two years, likely more. Probably about the time the Free Realms business model was developed. funny as i am seeing alot of longtime players upset over this , how does that equate to "a portion of the playerbase is perpetualy upset with soe ? " i was thoroughly enjoying TSO, i have payed to pay since release(as a shadowknight no less : ) i have had my issue's with the game as everyone does on some level. but to try and lump the majority of people that are against RMT being added to the game after the COE(SMED) had stated " no way shape or from EVER..EVER " is just a load of crap if anyone can't understand why people are upset about it and why some people have canceled i will say it again people chose to play a NON RMT (type) Game, people Payed thier Subs with the knowlegde directly from the COE ( Smed) that we would not have RMT on the Normal servers EVER, and was the whole reason for exchange servers people that have invested alot of time into the game, have friends, family and guildies they have known for 4 or less years need to make a decision suddenly when Stationcash was Slipped onto live servers without any warning, either A ) leave your friends/guildies and everything you Personaly achieved in the game ,, or B ) swallow your pride,morals,ethics, and continue to play a game that has introduced a feature promised to never be there to stay with your friends guildies, and not lose everything you aquired thru actualy Playing the game AND and hope that a Future update sometime in the near or far future will not go to far and you will have to cancel anyway. ........ some of the playerbase left (quietly) some are leaving vocaly,others are staying and being vocal about thier opinion on RMT, some people are staying and canceling if just one item is overboard , others will stay and if a few items negate thier tradeskiller/transmuter/advunture class will leave,, the community is very divided , and alot of people are uncomfortable and uneasy loging in anymore, some people are ignoring it, but thankfully the world doesnt revolve around the people that just ignore what is going on around them, and you have a minority of people that will buy stationcash items even if it is complete Junk ( like the introductory specialy picked stuff they added with RMT to make it seem like it was all FLuff) ,, again i have enjoyed palying eq2, and was enjoying it up until last week as Many other people were , the way this was implimented the Fact there are NO servers without it is a farce , it is either Like it or Leave ,,, and thats a realy crappy business aproach no matter how you look at it or want to spin it . eq2 has turned intoa game with many options and then suddenly RMT is forced apon everyone ? you can pick an exchange server, you can pick a pvp server, you can choose from hundreds of diffrent prsonal settings, etc etc etc , but you can not choose to play on a Sub-based server like you were just lastweek ??? it stanks something fierce. and to have the Mods telling us " stationcash is a Huge success" is just pathetic ,,, people are leaving, people are afraid to log in, people are afraid of the next SC update, people are afraid of there achievments and accompliments that took them weeks,months and in some cases years , to be negated in a microsecond by a credit card swipe,people blacklisting players,people ading sc users to ignore,guilds banning use of SC,,,,,,<_--- does not sound like a healthy fun game environment to me , or a Huge success . __________________ who's more of a Fool, the fool or the fool who follows the fool. . . Account Terminated as of 12-27-08, RMT=Evil

12-20-2008, 05:53 PM	#1192
Xagoth Loremaster Join Date: Nov 2004 Location: Oasis Posts: 81	I am seeing a lot of posts with people wanting a non Station Cash server. But my question is, why was Station Cash not introduced on a new single server with free transfers? That way, people that are interested in it could move to it for free and if it was a success they could open up another server. I just don't see why this was forced on all servers.

12-20-2008, 06:16 PM	#1193
Krugus Loremaster Join Date: Dec 2004 Posts: 75	Xagoth wrote: I am seeing a lot of posts with people wanting a non Station Cash server. But my question is, why was Station Cash not introduced on a new single server with free transfers? That way, people that are interested in it could move to it for free and if it was a success they could open up another server. I just don't see why this was forced on all servers. At this point. Even if they added a non SC server, I just don't see myself as coming back. I'll be logging in sometime this weekend on both of my accounts and deleting all my characters. SoE is not a company I'm willing to keep paying money to any more. I'm not ranting, Just stating a fact that SC is the final straw in a long list of lies which is causing me quit and leaving the game and SoE for good.

12-20-2008, 10:10 PM	#1194
bleap Loremaster Join Date: Sep 2006 Posts: 582	Aneshia@Oasis wrote: Dasein wrote: What concerns have not been addressed by SOE I still have yet to find an answer to my question asking Smed if can he implement non-SC servers that charge a higher base subscription fee? And if he can't, then why not? THIS HAS NOT BEEN ADDRESSED. I don't have the answer but if I had to speculate I would he could...BUT would it be profitable? How many people do you know willing to pay more for the game just to escape the SC? Use your veto in a better way. Just quit playing...If enough people do they MAY cancel the project and you can go back to playing..

12-20-2008, 10:24 PM	#1195
Guy De Alsace Loremaster Join Date: Apr 2005 Location: England Posts: 1,902	Just like to say this has had zero impact on my server from what I have seen. Nobody wants or even cares about SC since the products on offer are insanely overpriced and also available in the game anyway. Why would anyone want an xp potion when its already way too easy to level? The rest of the dross on offer is a non-event.

12-20-2008, 10:31 PM	#1196
The Radar Rat Loremaster Join Date: Dec 2004 Posts: 4	Krugus wrote: Xagoth wrote: I am seeing a lot of posts with people wanting a non Station Cash server. But my question is, why was Station Cash not introduced on a new single server with free transfers? That way, people that are interested in it could move to it for free and if it was a success they could open up another server. I just don't see why this was forced on all servers. At this point. Even if they added a non SC server, I just don't see myself as coming back. I'll be logging in sometime this weekend on both of my accounts and deleting all my characters. SoE is not a company I'm willing to keep paying money to any more. I'm not ranting, Just stating a fact that SC is the final straw in a long list of lies which is causing me quit and leaving the game and SoE for good. Unfortunately the problem is bigger than just SOE , we all know why they dumped this on people without asking first, it's the age old saying "it's easier to get forgiveness than it is to get permission" , which basically is the same reason that advertisers use opt-out advertising instead of opt-in .. if it was opt-in nobody would sign up to it, so they dump it on people and hope that if they do it for long enough people will eventually accept it as normal.. If what ive been reading around the net is acurate though... it's not just SOE thats jumping on the micro-transaction greed-wagon .. ---------------------------- Square-enix are supposed to be considering micro-transactions in the next final fantasy MMO.. http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v...xi/SEnewMMO.jpg ---------------------------- someone who was hacking the lich king expansion files found code supporting micro-transactions for World of warcraft.. http://blog.wired.com/games/2008/10...transactio.html ----------------------------- the next star-wars MMO is supposed to be being based off micro-transactions as well... http://www.digitalspy.co.uk/gaming/...ansactions.html ----------------------------- im sure many other companies are also considering it, and it's a real shame to invest so much time and subscription money into an MMO only to be stabbed in the back by the company because at the end of the day.. no matter how much we like the game. the company that created it did so to make as big a profit as they can, and they will put profit before the wishes of the subscribers every time..

12-20-2008, 10:36 PM	#1197
bryldan Loremaster Join Date: May 2006 Posts: 692	Guy De Alsace wrote: Just like to say this has had zero impact on my server from what I have seen. Nobody wants or even cares about SC since the products on offer are insanely overpriced and also available in the game anyway. Why would anyone want an xp potion when its already way too easy to level? The rest of the dross on offer is a non-event. Ummm aa xp potion offered in game? 40% run speed potion to ALL levels offered in game? The better question is why even question those that are angry over this? Why is ANYONE questioning ANYONE that is angry over this? They in turn says it doesnt bother them YET they are ones pretty much defending this decision with SOE. If it doesnt bother them then why are they even bothering to post on the subject? Are they afraid of ppl leaving? Because in the end that will effect the way they play. Afterall less subs = less grouping so in the end it IS going to effect the way they play. The only other option they are here to defend is that they are SOE lackeys and want to get on there good side for some strange demented reason.

12-20-2008, 11:52 PM	#1198
Anesh Server: Oasis Guild: Crimson Knights Rank: Silver Knight General Join Date: Jun 2006 Posts: 83	bleap wrote: Aneshia@Oasis wrote: Dasein wrote: What concerns have not been addressed by SOE I still have yet to find an answer to my question asking Smed if can he implement non-SC servers that charge a higher base subscription fee? And if he can't, then why not? THIS HAS NOT BEEN ADDRESSED. I don't have the answer but if I had to speculate I would he could...BUT would it be profitable? How am I supposed to know? I don't work in their accounting department. How many people do you know willing to pay more for the game just to escape the SC? I haven't taken a poll, that's SOE's job to keep track of their customor base, not mine. Use your veto in a better way. Just quit playing...If enough people do they MAY cancel the project and you can go back to playing.. I DID quit playing. I still want an answer.

12-21-2008, 01:04 AM	#1199
bleap Loremaster Join Date: Sep 2006 Posts: 582	Aneshia@Oasis wrote: bleap wrote: Aneshia@Oasis wrote: Dasein wrote: What concerns have not been addressed by SOE I still have yet to find an answer to my question asking Smed if can he implement non-SC servers that charge a higher base subscription fee? And if he can't, then why not? THIS HAS NOT BEEN ADDRESSED. I don't have the answer but if I had to speculate I would he could...BUT would it be profitable? How am I supposed to know? I don't work in their accounting department. It was rhetorical, I didn't think you did. I sure don't. How many people do you know willing to pay more for the game just to escape the SC? I haven't taken a poll, that's SOE's job to keep track of their customor base, not mine Would you believe them if they professed to have taken one?I certainly wouldn't have. They claim to have taken a survey to see how the SC would go over...They surveyed a group of sycophants at a fan faire with probably less than 1% of the player base there.... . Use your veto in a better way. Just quit playing...If enough people do they MAY cancel the project and you can go back to playing.. I DID quit playing. As have I and my husband. We are now playing LoTRO with friends who also have quit EQ2. I won't rule out a return to EQ2 but not as long as they offer SC. The slippery slope has been breached. It's now just time to see how long it takes to get to the bottom. I still want an answer. I doubt you will get one here.

12-21-2008, 04:39 PM	#1200
Laoch69 Loremaster Join Date: Nov 2004 Location: Vancouver, BC Posts: 189	I had posted, about a year ago, asking if there was ever going to be a one time race change option available, I was asking for a friend of mine, who was wanting to change from a froglok to a kerran. Besides the flaming, from "game altering to, just roll a new guy" there was also a response from SoE, that they had no intention of implementing this type of feature. Well, guess what, they are thinking of implementing it, but now you get to pay $$ to do so. Not only that, but with speed potions(just one example), Woodworkers get to compete DIRECTLY with SoE and Station Cash. SoE, do you not see what you are doing to what was a fantastic game? __________________