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12-09-2008, 11:57 AM
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#61 |
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Server: Nagafen
Guild: Purity
Rank: Sushi Maker - Alt
Loremaster
Join Date: Mar 2006
Posts: 2,136
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-Arctura- wrote:
Farming bots in KOS is not fighting |
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12-09-2008, 12:07 PM
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#62 |
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Loremaster
Join Date: Nov 2004
Posts: 391
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Disable tracking players period.
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The above post is most likely cynical, sarcastic, offensive, rude, unnecessary, and informative. I apologize for any information gained from said post. It was meant purely to be cynical, sarcastic, offensive, rude, and unnecessary. |
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12-09-2008, 12:12 PM
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#63 |
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Loremaster
Join Date: Nov 2004
Location: Canada
Posts: 1,589
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Faenril@Nagafen wrote:
(( lol I wish more than a good 300-400 kills came from those bots, but sadly I went off and did 2 semesters of school back when pvp was golden, and lost out on alot of chances for both them, and others. |
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12-09-2008, 12:33 PM
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#64 |
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Server: Nagafen
Guild: Purity
Rank: Sushi Maker - Alt
Loremaster
Join Date: Mar 2006
Posts: 2,136
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-Arctura- wrote:
Well jokes and taunting left appart, you told us many times how you hate dying and how it's a mistake in your opinion to eventually engage in a fight with a significant death risk. That's fine you play your class the way it's meant to be played, with some success if we consider KvD and title are indicators for success. Assassins are not meant to rush first in front of the army, they are not meant to be "heroes". Now try for a minute to sit in the shoes of that guy who zones somewhere, sees a scout afk in immunity at his evac/revive spot, reaches his questing spot at the opposite side of the zone, far from any flight path or anything, and gets ganked by said scout (and eventually his friends) 10 minutes later. As Pail rightfully said the scout does not need PC tracking while in immunity. He's not supposed to take part in the pvp while immune, so no need to know ennemy location. Well knowing surroundings while immune is not a problem, but being able to spy ennemy's motion while immune is. Or how do you justify that if you lock me on track and I kill you, you can still know my location after reviving, even if I moved to the other side of the zone in between, and you can keep coming back until you get your kill or I zone away ? |
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12-09-2008, 12:49 PM
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#65 |
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Loremaster
Join Date: Nov 2004
Location: Canada
Posts: 1,589
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Faenril@Nagafen wrote:
(( I never supported track locking. You are absolutely right it isnt fair, and it is a problem. But instead of tinkering with track (which would anger many and benefit few), how about just remove immunity areas outside of innrooms, remove perma-immunity after evac. Im not disputing that track locking from immunity is a bad thing. Right now, like i said, you have a solution, albeit an annoying one, just /camp >playername< and their track lock will be gone. But yeah, remove perma immunity I dont know why people assume I stand around afk for 15 minutes at a revive spot. I have more than 1 evac, and better things to do than sit around wasting my time afk for an evac timer.. .pfft. Ill go hunt in another zone, log to an alt, go quest.. etc. Anyways, Ive heard many scouts do that though, rely on their evac recast timer and hug immunity til its back up, and like i said, if they do away with perma immunity outside of your innroom, that will solve everyones problems And yes, if assassins are playing their class in a true roleplay sense, it is folly to engage in combat period. Assasins only action should revolve around mercilessly slaughtering people who are unawares, using the element of surprise. Anything else is un-assassin-ly. If video-game death was permanent, and killed you IRL, you can bet that 100% of people would be paranoid, hesitant and try to think things through before jumping into a fight in game. Now, i know video-game death does NOT = IRL death, but lets just imagine for a minute something called Roleplaying.. where you put yourself in the shoes of your character.... now you see... If i wanted gung ho crazy killing action where you die, I die, we all die together, Id play GTA4 on XBL, Halo, or one of those games that does not ENCOURAGE stealthy/sneaky/assassinly behavior. (aside from sneak energy sword kills) (and I do play those games often) Trust me, I enjoy pvp with risk, just not in this game So anyways... remove perma immunity! 8-) |
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12-09-2008, 01:01 PM
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#66 |
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Server: Nagafen
Guild: Purity
Rank: Sushi Maker - Alt
Loremaster
Join Date: Mar 2006
Posts: 2,136
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I would be all for removing any sort of perma immunity outside of your inn room, and relying on other means to protect the weak, like - efficient - guards for instance, but I don't think such a big change would happen now. Especially considering the game evolution in the past few years. Edit since you edited your post too: I have nothing against your playstyle. I think there have to be cowards or "extremely careful" opponents in the pvp environment, it brings some variety, and it's cool to have few ppl to hate in game for their behavior, as when you actually catch them it's so good ... The problem is not you or scouts in general, it's track + immunity mechanics combined. |
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12-09-2008, 07:14 PM
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#67 |
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Server: Venekor
Guild: Exalted
Rank: Officer
Loremaster
Join Date: Jun 2005
Posts: 233
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Faenril@Nagafen wrote:
I would love to pound Skrees face in, Anymore he doesn't leave Freeport w/o an in-combat evac of some sort up
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12-10-2008, 07:21 PM
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#68 |
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Loremaster
Join Date: Dec 2004
Location: australia
Posts: 197
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Faenril@Nagafen wrote:
Things can be changed, take EXILE for example a hand full of posts some over 20pages just to get amenitys in haven, they moved norath and got what they wanted, things can be changed never doubt they cant be.take all classes in q and freeps sides thats not major change..?its just stupid for me to be able to track while immune, then set off to kill the guy 20mins later after i went afk. If your a scout and want to keep this, it means one thing YOU want the EASY kills all the time. and lets face it its easy. SoE fix tracking alltogether and get rid of it and give it to casters with a spell called "Far Seeing eye" or something and give casters the track locking and then watch what happens. see i would not have a problem with this, why should i after all us scouts have had it far to easy. |
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12-10-2008, 10:12 PM
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#69 |
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Loremaster
Join Date: Aug 2007
Posts: 1,199
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They need to disable track period in PvP. There is this ONE person on Venekor who hides a level 2 tracker in immunity up in Moors to track enemy players. That is an exploit, no matter how you try to paint it.
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Doing your own thing isn't good, if it prevents others from doing their own thing. |
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12-11-2008, 02:29 PM
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#70 |
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Loremaster
Join Date: Dec 2004
Posts: 399
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Ok lets say tracking is only 60m which it isnt . but all that means is you only need to get within 60 M to perma track anyone. 60m above them on a flying mount. 60m below them in the water. 60m from a flight tower standing in immunity. or as is common ... just stand at the entrance of the zone .. every player comes thru it ... the boat is there the druid ring is there.. and track lock players as they enter the zone... watch them piuck up quests ... then wait till the little X stops moving.. you know they are fighting mobs... then kill em ... If players fell off track ...when they were over 100 m away ... ok whatever... but they dont. Tracking should be a buff ... lasts 30 seconds... 10 second cooldown ... drops if player enters stealth .. reduced runspeed to 0%. There now it is a skill to help find people . but odds are you will need to stop tracking to catch up to a player... it lasts 30 seconds. and your runspeed is now 0% ... so unless the other player is standing still... you will fall behind..... It is no longer a GPS device ... its a tool for those who think a player is arround here someplace... and will get a 30 second opportunity ..at runspeed 0% to find them .... that is still useful .. but it will end this ..... a 90% runspeed scout ..blazing across the landscape with track window open the whole time ... which is lame... if you want to offer that kind of track ... Start with the tracking i have described then add AA line tier 1 5 points total ..each point adds 3 seconds to track window duration. tier 2 5 points total .. each point adds 10% runspeed while tracking. tier 3 5 points total expands track area by 3% per point/ There now a scout has paid a price to track ... and has made a sacrifice.. and still cant perma lock a player... Noting says fun like escaping a gank grp ... and knowing ... you need to log to your desktop and STOP PLAYING or else you are going to die . because the scout in the group is standing 2000 m away ..watching you run arround.... telling his group ... he is on the bird ... ohhh wait he jumped ... he is swimming through the lake ... wait he is hiding on the ocean floor .... all while standing in immunity . |
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12-11-2008, 03:18 PM
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#71 |
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Loremaster
Join Date: Aug 2007
Posts: 1,199
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Tracking should only allow you to open your track window to see if anyone is around you. It should not allow you to hit the tracking button to get a gold line, direction, et cetera to track another player. Take away that ability, and only allow a person to open up their tracking window to see if others are around, and you've fixed most of the problems.
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Doing your own thing isn't good, if it prevents others from doing their own thing. |
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12-11-2008, 06:48 PM
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#72 |
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Loremaster
Join Date: May 2006
Posts: 704
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I'll go a step further. Disable tracking for ANY pvp target. Disable tracking in zones where you're able to place a flag. OR give tracking to everyone via tinkering. |
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12-14-2008, 04:34 AM
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#73 |
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Server: Nagafen
Guild: Fallen Knights
Rank: Recruit
Seer
Join Date: Apr 2008
Posts: 99
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The better solution would be to give all classes track on pvp server... maybe excluding sk's maybe a reduced version that doesnt allow you to track npc's for quests and names to my mind this would improve the pvp and pve expiriance of all non scout classes on pvp servers, boost the confidence of alot of classes to head out into the game and increase the amount of pvp out there Yes you can learn to live without track but it does effect how much fun you can get in the game. Tracks to important to pvp to limit it just to the scouts and its not like scouts will lose there central importance in the pvp world by give track to others. It'll just balance things out a bit. |
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12-16-2008, 11:36 AM
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#74 |
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Mouse Betrayer!
Join Date: Mar 2006
Posts: 2,579
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Plane@Nagafen wrote:
I just dont see that working out.. Just removed the ability of totems to work WITH track. This would re-focus the importance of different scouts having the natural ability to track other hidden players. You could still use totems to see around you with, but they wouldnt change tracks ability to track hidden players. TBH this is how it really should have been from the start. Totems would work for targeting/seeing players around your view range but wouldnt show on track unless your classes hidden ability allowed you to see those things without totems and was hidden. Example : Pred's could see mages(on track) that were invis as long as the pred was in stealth : Rouges could see other scouts (on track) that were stealthed as long as they were stealth'd And mages could give any scout the ability to track other mages invis'd without having to stealth. T2 twink pvp was like this, because those player wernt high enough level for to be able to use totems yet, some considered this some of the purest pvp there ever was.. Minus the ganking of non twinks of course. I would be much happier with that tbh but its even more highly unlikely.
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12-16-2008, 06:46 PM
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#75 |
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Loremaster
Join Date: Dec 2004
Location: australia
Posts: 197
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Soe just be fair to everyone, that PAYS you money to play the game. trackign while in water, in the air while immune after death "locking" and the BIG red X moving on my map, noone should have to /camp to get rid of track locking, thats zone disrution and not alowed by SOE rules just read them. |
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12-17-2008, 04:18 AM
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#76 |
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Philosopher
Join Date: Dec 2008
Posts: 3
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I don't think SOE should completely disable tracking in immunity. I think the tracking range should be cut down a bit as the scout should not be able to track a large portion of the zone as they do now. Disabling tracking in immunity will not solve the popping out of immunity and killing problems. I have seen all sorts of classes with see stealth and invis totems attack something, pop out of immunity, and bum rush in to kill me. Last night, a shadowknight attacked something to break immunity only to put harm touch to my face. With the vision totems you can see anything around for quite a distance. In fact you can see everyone around you and strategically break immunity to dice up the solo caster, or nuke the solo tank. Any class can unfairly take advantage of immunity to gain the upper hand. Getting rid of track in immunity is not the answer. Since the release of EQ2 scout classes have been weakened drastically. It used to be assassins were one of the most played classes. They would go around and decap for thousands of damage, call and wait for decap timer to count down. Now you see very few assassins. For a while there were a ton of furys and wardens around. In fact, while there was lvl locking, you couldn't go to any lowby zone without running into furys everywhere. Harm touch is a main pvp damage tool now, so you see a ton of Shadowknights around. You also see a ton of rangers due to the damage changes with the bow and their super run speed. Eventually a bunch of people will complain to the point SOE will eventually nerf Harmtouch a bit and they will probably nerf the powerful bow attacks some. Who knows? which class is the powerhouse for pvp seems to go in cycles. The element of surprise is a key for success in pvp as a scout. With the extreme use of Vision totems, the scout classes have lost that element for the most part. If you completely do away with tracking or nerf track too much, to go with the loss of surprise what do you have left. Definately not a scout, but a tank with more dps. One last thing, SOE added immunity in all the zones, origionally, because too many people complained about not having any sort of immunity. There is nothing worse than dieing the second you zone in or revive because there is nothing protecting you. I remember the pvp meyhem on the nek docks and ts docks before immunity. It was an absolute gank fest. Nobody could use the docks without the threat of impending doom. There woud be gank squads waiting to kill you the second you zoned or revived. So be careful when you say you want to remove immunity. It was put there because of so many complaints. Regardless of the changes that sony makes, there will be people who develope cheap tactics and misuse the system to get titles or infamy increases. It is pvp and pvp involves fighting against real human intelligence. So misuse of the system and cheap tactics are what you should expect in dealing with title greedy people. |
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12-17-2008, 04:36 AM
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#77 |
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Philosopher
Join Date: Dec 2008
Posts: 3
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I agree with Pail when they say totems should not effect tracking at all, as it would set some good limits. If you are a preditor you should be able to track invis only; likewise, if you are a rogue, you should track stealth only! Totems should not change what a particular type of scout can track. Totems should not make a stealth tracker suddenly an expert at tracking invis. This would be a great step in fixing track. As i said before, limit the tracking range a bit too. One particular scout should not be able to track every single thing in the zone, via use of totems. Giving everyone track or taking pvp track away completely would be a bad thing to as it takes away from the scouts identity. Tracking and stealth and the element of surprise is a special element of the scout and separates them from being a mere fighter or tank. An assassin shouldn't see a rogue comming and a rogue shouldn't see a caster comming. Everyone who has stealth or invis should have some sort of ability to hide or remain inconspicuous. |
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12-17-2008, 08:01 PM
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#78 |
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Loremaster
Join Date: Dec 2004
Location: australia
Posts: 197
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The thing is why do a half baked job might as well fix it alltogether and get rid of it in immunity. there is no need for it at all. The red X on the map is not tracking thats painting a X on every none scouts back, no matter where you are in the zone from the immune area, i think someone said all we need is a "xxx is south and above you" message and that would mean you would have to venture out and really track and look for them, that would bring that eliment back to the game. unless everyone wants a WOW style game, just keep pushing SoE for change that makes the game easyer then it is now but i dont think everyone wants that but its the direction this game is heading in. SoE plz fix Tracking in a way it brings back something to the game and not just a big old red X that can track someone nomattter where you are in the zone |
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12-17-2008, 09:26 PM
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#79 |
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Loremaster
Join Date: Jun 2008
Posts: 1,254
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Trinkets wrote:
And if you're a bard you can't track anything. Thanks for that. Track everything in the zone? In RoK I could almost always spot players with my eyes long before they registered on track. Same deal with TSO really. Track range has been gimped so many times its not even funny.
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 Kaelas, Necromancer Valindor, Templar Paikis, Troubador Ashk, Berserker Mirbolt, Shadowknight |
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12-18-2008, 02:39 AM
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#80 |
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Loremaster
Join Date: Nov 2004
Posts: 1,064
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Paikis wrote:
Bards could still track people who are not steathed or invis if that change were to go into effect. What the game could really use is a large revamp on the entire tracking, stealth, and see stealth/invis system. Factors like totems, see invis exc should increase the range of tracking and los to hidden characters instead of completely negate the stealth/invis. They should also stack so a ranger with butterfly, class see invis, and see invis cast from a mage would have a great spotting range on invis characters, but only a butterfly for see stealth. Water and rain should negate tracking, but other factors like snow on the ground should increase tracking range. Some classes should be easier to track than others ie Plate tanks should be very easy to track, and druids should be very difficult. SOE could do a lot with the system to make it more detailed and fun if we had a PvP dev give the situation a little bit of love.
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I have gotten him to engage me 1, Yes 1 time ever and right before he died he disappeared from Swiftriders in PoF by the carpet to out of Swift and half way to the next zone line north :-S
