RMT on Non-Station Exchange Servers?

Aragas · 12-09-2008, 01:44 PM

I am waiting to log in before passing final judgement, but lets just say I could not be less excited about today's patch. I have been an Everquest player since 2000. In the last 8 years there have been good decisions and bad, but today is dangerous territory.

If this 'marketplace' essentially equates to RMT on all servers, allowing players to purchase coin, equipment, or other items that go beyond 'fluff', I am done. End of story.

If this system only allows players to purchse house items, pets, and the like, I will likely swallow it as a bitter pill. However, if the marketplace allows people to purchase items that add to their characters strenth, and thereby their ability to 'compete,' I am done.

I am not a hardcore player by any means, but simply purchasing 'power', completely defeats any purpose of an RPG. Would you enjoy a game where you start at the End, and bypass everything else? I wouldn't. And I won't.

Tread carefully SOE

Spyderbite · 12-09-2008, 01:55 PM

Logged in to TestCopy just now..

Not sure if its on Live yet.. logging on to Venekor now to purchase $20 and see how it ticks.

Geothe · 12-09-2008, 02:12 PM

Yep. RMT on Non-Station Servers.The very thing we were promised would NEVER HAPPEN.

Originally Posted by Smed

I've been a regular lurker on this site for a while but I wanted to step in here and dispel something that's just plain not true - I don't have my name highlighted here, but anyone that doubts it's me can email me at jsmedley@soe.sony.com and I'll happily reply.We aren't going to be allowing RMT in any way, shape or form on the non-exchange enabled EQ II servers. Period. End of statement. In any event, I wanted to stop in and at least set the record straight - you aren't going to be seeing RMT allowed on the non-exchange enabled servers. John SmedleyPresident, Sony Online Entertainment

Iari111 · 12-09-2008, 02:13 PM

I am disappointed beyond words in this move of theirs.

It is just one more element of EQ2 that I will pretend doesn't exist (like LoN).

Feedback this issue!

Stratz · 12-09-2008, 02:18 PM

Please remove this garbage from non-SE servers and put your time into fixing things that matter.

Aragas · 12-09-2008, 02:25 PM

This isn't something you can 'pretend' dosn't exist.

Notice all the chatter about people being concerned where all the AA is going to come from to make it to 200points, because it dosn't seem like TSO introduced 60AAs worth of AA content? Now we have AA potions (50% bonus for $10). You think thats a coinsidence?

Think it's a coinsidence the introroduce this right after an otherwise sucessful expantion?

Think it's a coinsidence they didn't introduce this into test to avoid the backlash?

This isnt just Fluff armor graphics, house items, and pets. If you don't see platnium, gear, spells, and other abilities coming in the future through the marketplace, you are blind.

Is this SOEs attempt to milk the last few dollars out of EQ2 and let it die?

I strongly recommend anyone with similar feelings to submit /feedback every day expressing so. My account is active until early January. Its recurring billing, however, has been canceled this morning. I would urge others to consider the same.

Xagoth · 12-09-2008, 03:31 PM

Lunara@Butcherblock wrote:

I am disappointed beyond words in this move of theirs.
It is just one more element of EQ2 that I will pretend doesn't exist (like LoN).
Feedback this issue!

Yeah, I really am at a loss for words at the moment over this.

They can say the items you can purchase will be purely "convenience items", but we all know this is just the beginning.

Howler in Darkness · 12-09-2008, 04:17 PM

Yep as you can see by my other post I am also extremely dissappointed by this. Me and my GF are like going "WHY!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!" and are unsure what to do now... That LOTR MMO is looking better and better. LoN was bad enough but apparently not a big enough money maker for SoE. I like LoN I will admit, it does have its drawbacks on the game, but I think this could potentially destroy this game. They really should have thought this through, and maybe actually asked players what they thought... If your listening Sony, refund everyone NOW before its way to late... The other poster was right, they should be fixing problems with this game not creating new ones!!!

ke'la · 12-09-2008, 04:55 PM

Geothe wrote:

Yep. RMT on Non-Station Servers.The very thing we were promised would NEVER HAPPEN.
Originally Posted by Smed
I've been a regular lurker on this site for a while but I wanted to step in here and dispel something that's just plain not true - I don't have my name highlighted here, but anyone that doubts it's me can email me at jsmedley@soe.sony.com and I'll happily reply.We aren't going to be allowing RMT in any way, shape or form on the non-exchange enabled EQ II servers. Period. End of statement. In any event, I wanted to stop in and at least set the record straight - you aren't going to be seeing RMT allowed on the non-exchange enabled servers. John SmedleyPresident, Sony Online Entertainment

He changed that position when they introduced LoN in the first place. Infact he even said in an interview that noone could ligitamitly say that LoN was not a form of RMT... now you just don't have to go through the motions of buying packs to get similar items... heck they probly are the same items.

And know they will be able to say that thier LoN player numbers are ligitimate players and not EQ2/EQ1 RMTers.

ke'la · 12-09-2008, 04:59 PM

Aragas wrote:

This isn't something you can 'pretend' dosn't exist.
Notice all the chatter about people being concerned where all the AA is going to come from to make it to 200points, because it dosn't seem like TSO introduced 60AAs worth of AA content? Now we have AA potions (50% bonus for $10). You think thats a coinsidence?
Think it's a coinsidence the introroduce this right after an otherwise sucessful expantion?
Think it's a coinsidence they didn't introduce this into test to avoid the backlash?
This isnt just Fluff armor graphics, house items, and pets. If you don't see platnium, gear, spells, and other abilities coming in the future through the marketplace, you are blind.
This is no differant then LoN, other then now the "Virtual Currency" is not Packs of Digital cards, but instead Points. People have said what you have about LoN as well and guess what it has not happened. Yes, there have been one or two overpowered items but those also have been Nerfed.
Is this SOEs attempt to milk the last few dollars out of EQ2 and let it die?
If SoE thought that EQ2 is dieing I doupt they would spend the time implimenting this, in fact adding "Value added service" generally only goes to successful properties... BTW Value Added Service is the marketing term for premiums available for a price.
I strongly recommend anyone with similar feelings to submit /feedback every day expressing so. My account is active until early January. Its recurring billing, however, has been canceled this morning. I would urge others to consider the same.

Arianah · 12-09-2008, 05:00 PM

I don't know if the people in charge pay as much attention to the forums as I do (and I don't even read every single post and thread), but I can tell you that the majority of us didn't like the idea of LoN in-game rewards, and now this?

Aren't you supposed to be creating a game FOR US, the players? You know... the people who pay you to play this game?

/sigh

Geothe · 12-09-2008, 05:02 PM

kela wrote:

He changed that position when they introduced LoN in the first place. Infact he even said in an interview that noone could ligitamitly say that LoN was not a form of RMT... now you just don't have to go through the motions of buying packs to get similar items... heck they probly are the same items.

Exactly, he lied once, or "changed position".And when he did that last time he also stated, in regards to LoN:

5) This is not some slippery slope towards selling items directly in EQ & EQ II.

And now what did they just do?Oh yes, introduced a method of selling items directly in EQ and EQII.He lied again, or "changed position."So, here he has a history of outright lying on these topics, and he's claiming that these Market items will always be "just fluff". You know, the same claim made with LoN loot items which -also- turned out to be a lie.Great track record going there.Its all BS.

Ronin SpoilSpot · 12-09-2008, 05:07 PM

Geothe quoted:

Originally Posted by Smed

...
In any event, I wanted to stop in and at least set the record straight - you aren't going to be seeing RMT allowed on the non-exchange enabled servers. John SmedleyPresident, Sony Online Entertainment

That's what really hits me, just as it did with LoN, and with moves off the test server, and probably more.

Not that they change their mind, but that they have no compunctions about going back on their word without even a warning.

It would have been so easy for them to say: "We know what we said, but some things have changed and we are now working on adding RMT to EQ2. Stay posted for news."

Instead they waited until we have all bought the expansion ... which I wouldn't have done if I had known it then. Good business strategy, in the short term. Maybe not so good for customer relations in the long run.

I guess it's the good old principle: If people can't bear to hear the truth about what you are doing ... maybe you shouldn't be doing it.

/RS

Tuatha · 12-09-2008, 05:15 PM

Ronin SpoilSpot wrote:

they waited until we have all bought the expansion ... which I wouldn't have done if I had known it then. Good business strategy, in the short term. Maybe not so good for customer relations in the long run.
I guess it's the good old principle: If people can't bear to hear the truth about what you are doing ... maybe you shouldn't be doing it.

QFE

TSR-DanielH · 12-09-2008, 05:48 PM

Aragas wrote:

If this 'marketplace' essentially equates to RMT on all servers, allowing players to purchase coin, equipment, or other items that go beyond 'fluff', I am done. End of story.

All of the items available are fluff items, mostly. The only items that would effect your adventuring would be the potions. Even then, those items will only help you level faster and wont make you stronger than others at max level.

Geothe · 12-09-2008, 05:52 PM

TSR-DanielH wrote:

Aragas wrote:
If this 'marketplace' essentially equates to RMT on all servers, allowing players to purchase coin, equipment, or other items that go beyond 'fluff', I am done. End of story.
All of the items available are fluff items, mostly. The only items that would effect your adventuring would be the potions. Even then, those items will only help you level faster and wont make you stronger than others at max level.

Fluff, mostly. Meaning not all of them are.The potions are far from fluff. They are items that allow someone to spend extra money to advance faster than someone that doesn't have the excess cash to spend. That is FAR FROM "fluff".Appearance items, pets, illusions, house items, those are fluff. Any item that has an effect in combat/tradeskilling isn't... and that is a good share of what you are selling. And that is just for now.Just like LoN was going to be "just fluff" that turned out to be a fat lie. So will this current "fluff" statement.. which is a lie from the very start.

ke'la · 12-09-2008, 06:03 PM

AGeothe wrote:

TSR-DanielH wrote:
Aragas wrote:
If this 'marketplace' essentially equates to RMT on all servers, allowing players to purchase coin, equipment, or other items that go beyond 'fluff', I am done. End of story.
All of the items available are fluff items, mostly. The only items that would effect your adventuring would be the potions. Even then, those items will only help you level faster and wont make you stronger than others at max level.
Fluff, mostly. Meaning not all of them are.The potions are far from fluff. They are items that allow someone to spend extra money to advance faster than someone that doesn't have the excess cash to spend. That is FAR FROM "fluff".Appearance items, pets, illusions, house items, those are fluff. Any item that has an effect in combat/tradeskilling isn't... and that is a good share of what you are selling. And that is just for now.Just like LoN was going to be "just fluff" that turned out to be a fat lie. So will this current "fluff" statement.. which is a lie from the very start.

Um, really consitering the Rate of XP gain in this game sence they lowered the amount needed to level*, I personally consiter XP Pots fluff... heck I have not even used half the ones I got as Vet rewards...

As for LoN items that are not fluff... name one... and no mounts don't count now that you can get one for just buying EQ2 at retail.

*went from level 29.6 or so to 30.6 when they did this.

Geothe · 12-09-2008, 06:11 PM

kela wrote:

[stuff]

Try working your way to 200 AAs with a lvl 80 toon, when the new quests run out at around 160-65 AA and tell me that gaining 50% more AA that whole time is just fluff.

As for other non-flull LoN loot items.There are cloaks with clicky effect increasing combat damage by X amount for durations.FAR from fluff.So, more lies from SoE. Imagine that.

warstomp · 12-09-2008, 06:13 PM

thanks SOE for ripping us off even more and gutting us for more money......just a load of crap

Tuatha · 12-09-2008, 06:17 PM

Smedley, John wrote:

Thanks for the email - RMT is one player selling to another. If you look at the context of that statement it was about the launch of Station Exchange which allows players to sell to each other. I am not trying to parse words here - that's really what I meant. What we have done is put microtransactions into the game. We have also made sure to not put things in that unbalance the game in any way.I hope you will keep an open mind and look at it and how it impacts the game.

That's the reply I got when I mailed him about this, sigh.

Banditman · 12-09-2008, 06:26 PM

There are two possibly results of this:

1. The items turn into less than fluff, and become a "surcharge" for playing the game. In this case, I'll vote with my dollars and go elsewhere. There are a number of games out there that would love my business and don't require any sort of "surcharge" for play aside from the monthly fee.

2. The items remain fluff, and the revenue generated from this allows SOE to add more developers to the team, thus enhancing my enjoyment of the game. I continue to vote with my dollars by remaining a customer, and not giving a crap if the dude standing over there has glowy red crap around his hands.

The second these items become more than fluff items, SOE loses my respect and my patronage.

Spyderbite · 12-09-2008, 06:29 PM

Banditman wrote:

1. The items turn into less than fluff, and become a "surcharge" for playing the game. In this case, I'll vote with my dollars and go elsewhere. There are a number of games out there that would love my business and don't require any sort of "surcharge" for play aside from the monthly fee.

3. Said company's see thousands of players dumping money into the game beyond the monthly subscriptions and you're forced to pay or quit gaming all together while millions of others fall in behind you with new subscriptions.

Always easy to see the dark side it is. mhmm..

Rijacki · 12-09-2008, 06:36 PM

Zeemeermin wrote:

Smedley, John wrote:
Thanks for the email - RMT is one player selling to another. If you look at the context of that statement it was about the launch of Station Exchange which allows players to sell to each other. I am not trying to parse words here - that's really what I meant. What we have done is put microtransactions into the game. We have also made sure to not put things in that unbalance the game in any way.I hope you will keep an open mind and look at it and how it impacts the game.
That's the reply I got when I mailed him about this, sigh.

They are spinning RMT (real money transfers or real money transactions) into a very small definition in order to continue to make a claim it doesn't exist on non-Exchange servers.

Is real money being spent for in-game items? yes = RMT

Is that real money spent on in-game items going to SOE? This is the part they're spinning and claiming can't be RMT 'cause the game company is the one selling the in-game items DIRECTLY to players, not players (or those with player accounts) selling to players.

Earlier this year Smed did say they were working to convin.. err coerce the MMO players of today into a microtransaction + subscription model of game play. This is phase II. Phase I was LoN.

danmuntz · 12-09-2008, 06:47 PM

I'd be more content getting a +90 day account time bonus for buying TSO, like I've gotten on EVERY other expansion. This is a BAD move and just moves this game a little further onto the downslope of failure.

Mihos · 12-09-2008, 08:11 PM

TSR-DanielH wrote:

Aragas wrote:
If this 'marketplace' essentially equates to RMT on all servers, allowing players to purchase coin, equipment, or other items that go beyond 'fluff', I am done. End of story.
All of the items available are fluff items, mostly. The only items that would effect your adventuring would be the potions. Even then, those items will only help you level faster and wont make you stronger than others at max level.

You guys really don't get it do you? Everything in this game is fluff, obtaining it is the reason people grind through repetative broken quest to get the reward. First, you take something a ton of people want like a unicorn mount and put it exclusivly on a HORRIBLE out of game fircken card (the unicorn mount would have probably made the most popular questline in game), then you take the rest of what could have been a decent reward for completing a quest and ask us just to write you a @#%^@%# check for it... you guys have lost your mind and have no idea what you are doing any more. Is there even a single person who plays games work there? This goes beyond bad ideas and goes straight to incompantancy.

Arianah · 12-09-2008, 08:47 PM

Mihos wrote:

You guys really don't get it do you? Everything in this game is fluff, obtaining it is the reason people grind through repetative broken quest to get the reward. First, you take something a ton of people want like a unicorn mount and put it exclusivly on a HORRIBLE out of game fircken card (the unicorn mount would have probably made the most popular questline in game), then you take the rest of what could have been a decent reward for completing a quest and ask us just to write you a @#%^@%# check for it... you guys have lost your mind and have no idea what you are doing any more. Is there even a single person who plays games work there? This goes beyond bad ideas and goes straight to incompantancy.

Aye, this is EverQuest (II), not EverBuy....

Ealthina · 12-09-2008, 08:50 PM

This is beyond reproach and disgusting.

Smed · 12-09-2008, 09:02 PM

Geothe wrote:

Yep. RMT on Non-Station Servers.The very thing we were promised would NEVER HAPPEN.
Originally Posted by Smed
I've been a regular lurker on this site for a while but I wanted to step in here and dispel something that's just plain not true - I don't have my name highlighted here, but anyone that doubts it's me can email me at jsmedley@soe.sony.com and I'll happily reply.We aren't going to be allowing RMT in any way, shape or form on the non-exchange enabled EQ II servers. Period. End of statement. In any event, I wanted to stop in and at least set the record straight - you aren't going to be seeing RMT allowed on the non-exchange enabled servers. John SmedleyPresident, Sony Online Entertainment

To put it simply - I absolutely said that, and stand by it. Allowing RMT transactions (i.e. player to player sales) is not happening on the non Live Gamer servers. That was specifically what was being discussed. I guess I can see how that quote can be taken out of context, but the truth is that discussion was specifically around when we launched Station Exchange and that is what I meant. I consider RMT to be player to player stuff and what we're doing here to be microtransactions because we are directly selling things. But I certainly don't mean to split hairs.

I don't think that changes the fact that us adding this is a move that not everyone is going to be happy with. I think we're being careful to make sure nothing is game imbalancing. We aren't trying to put things in here that people "have to have". The idea was fun and convienence. Level up an alt quicker.. that kind of thing.

Is this a slippery slope? I don't think so but only because you the players will simply not let it ever be a slippery slope.

We intend to do a lot of cool stuff with Station Cash. I just posted in my blog with some of the future plans. i would only ask that you please see how it's going to be used and see what you think after a few days or weeks.

Here's a link to the blog

http://stationblog.wordpress.com/

Smed

TheSpin · 12-09-2008, 09:10 PM

I would much rather pay a little more each month, remove station cash, and replace it with quests that give access to things that are planned to be available on station cash.

The thing that really bothers me is that the limited resources EQ2 already has are now being spent on designing items for station cash rather than on things that actually improve the game that I already pay for. I pay 15 dollars a month gladly because I feel like a little bit of my 15 dollars is going towards making a better game. Now I have to wonder if my 15 dollars will be going towards developing armor with a cool graphic that will only be available on station cash.

Smed · 12-09-2008, 09:17 PM

Banditman wrote:

There are two possibly results of this:
1. The items turn into less than fluff, and become a "surcharge" for playing the game. In this case, I'll vote with my dollars and go elsewhere. There are a number of games out there that would love my business and don't require any sort of "surcharge" for play aside from the monthly fee.
2. The items remain fluff, and the revenue generated from this allows SOE to add more developers to the team, thus enhancing my enjoyment of the game. I continue to vote with my dollars by remaining a customer, and not giving a crap if the dude standing over there has glowy red crap around his hands.
The second these items become more than fluff items, SOE loses my respect and my patronage.

Our intention is certainly #2.

Everyone should realize that we love making great games here at SOE, and everyday we come to work and get to make great games. But we also have the business side of things to consider. I personally use microtransactions in other games. Magic Online for example and I play a lot of casual stuff. I'm also a heavy Battlefield 2 player and plan on playing Battlefield Heroes. That's going to be a microtransaction game... and I will absolutely pay money.. quite happily. But both of those games were designed with microtransactions in mind.

Now personally I would not choose to buy items in an MMORPG because earning them is part of what's fun about playing them in the first place. I do not consider that a "grind". However I know a LOT of people that disagree with that statement and regularly buy gold in many games.

So in the end it comes down to personal choice. I completely respect the opinion that this is a slippery slope on the road to a dark place. I believe in the end this is going to be a giant non-issue because you will see this more and more as time goes on in many games from many companies and I also think that if we handle it right and make sure we don't unbalance the game.. everyone can be happy.

I just saw a great post on shacknews about how the new Star Wars MMO is going to be microtransaction based.

http://www.shacknews.com/onearticle.x/56292

To me that's exciting.. even if I don't ever buy a single thing. It's exciting because it opens up new possibilities for us as an industry. I also think that we as players are going to be presented with different ways to pay for games like this.

For example.. would you like a game where you didn't have to pay a subscription fee at all? I believe that with microtransactions that is likely to happen. A small percentage of the players will spend a dramatic amount of money and could literally give a lot of "free" gameplay to a lot of other people.. thereby opening up online games to a lot more people. I understand that we're adding this to a live game and that is the real issue here.

Smed

12-09-2008, 02:12 PM	#3
Geothe Loremaster Join Date: Nov 2004 Posts: 2,098	Yep. RMT on Non-Station Servers.The very thing we were promised would NEVER HAPPEN. Originally Posted by Smed I've been a regular lurker on this site for a while but I wanted to step in here and dispel something that's just plain not true - I don't have my name highlighted here, but anyone that doubts it's me can email me at jsmedley@soe.sony.com and I'll happily reply.We aren't going to be allowing RMT in any way, shape or form on the non-exchange enabled EQ II servers. Period. End of statement. In any event, I wanted to stop in and at least set the record straight - you aren't going to be seeing RMT allowed on the non-exchange enabled servers. John SmedleyPresident, Sony Online Entertainment __________________ Smed: We aren't going to be allowing RMT in any way, shape or form on the non-exchange enabled EQ II servers. Period. End of statement. Smed: 5) This [LoN] is not some slippery slope towards selling items directly in EQ & EQ II. Lie #3: Station Cash. Enough Said.

12-09-2008, 03:31 PM	#7
Xagoth Loremaster Join Date: Nov 2004 Location: Oasis Posts: 81	Lunara@Butcherblock wrote: I am disappointed beyond words in this move of theirs. It is just one more element of EQ2 that I will pretend doesn't exist (like LoN). Feedback this issue! Yeah, I really am at a loss for words at the moment over this. They can say the items you can purchase will be purely "convenience items", but we all know this is just the beginning.

12-09-2008, 04:17 PM	#8
Howler in Darkness Loremaster Join Date: Nov 2004 Location: Spokane, Wa Posts: 3	Yep as you can see by my other post I am also extremely dissappointed by this. Me and my GF are like going "WHY!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!" and are unsure what to do now... That LOTR MMO is looking better and better. LoN was bad enough but apparently not a big enough money maker for SoE. I like LoN I will admit, it does have its drawbacks on the game, but I think this could potentially destroy this game. They really should have thought this through, and maybe actually asked players what they thought... If your listening Sony, refund everyone NOW before its way to late... The other poster was right, they should be fixing problems with this game not creating new ones!!! __________________ Mulder-"How would this happen?" Scully-"The birds and the bees and the monkey babies, Mulder."

12-09-2008, 04:55 PM	#9
ke'la Loremaster Join Date: Dec 2004 Posts: 5,445	Geothe wrote: Yep. RMT on Non-Station Servers.The very thing we were promised would NEVER HAPPEN. Originally Posted by Smed I've been a regular lurker on this site for a while but I wanted to step in here and dispel something that's just plain not true - I don't have my name highlighted here, but anyone that doubts it's me can email me at jsmedley@soe.sony.com and I'll happily reply.We aren't going to be allowing RMT in any way, shape or form on the non-exchange enabled EQ II servers. Period. End of statement. In any event, I wanted to stop in and at least set the record straight - you aren't going to be seeing RMT allowed on the non-exchange enabled servers. John SmedleyPresident, Sony Online Entertainment He changed that position when they introduced LoN in the first place. Infact he even said in an interview that noone could ligitamitly say that LoN was not a form of RMT... now you just don't have to go through the motions of buying packs to get similar items... heck they probly are the same items. And know they will be able to say that thier LoN player numbers are ligitimate players and not EQ2/EQ1 RMTers. __________________

12-09-2008, 04:59 PM	#10
ke'la Loremaster Join Date: Dec 2004 Posts: 5,445	Aragas wrote: This isn't something you can 'pretend' dosn't exist. Notice all the chatter about people being concerned where all the AA is going to come from to make it to 200points, because it dosn't seem like TSO introduced 60AAs worth of AA content? Now we have AA potions (50% bonus for $10). You think thats a coinsidence? Think it's a coinsidence the introroduce this right after an otherwise sucessful expantion? Think it's a coinsidence they didn't introduce this into test to avoid the backlash? This isnt just Fluff armor graphics, house items, and pets. If you don't see platnium, gear, spells, and other abilities coming in the future through the marketplace, you are blind. This is no differant then LoN, other then now the "Virtual Currency" is not Packs of Digital cards, but instead Points. People have said what you have about LoN as well and guess what it has not happened. Yes, there have been one or two overpowered items but those also have been Nerfed. Is this SOEs attempt to milk the last few dollars out of EQ2 and let it die? If SoE thought that EQ2 is dieing I doupt they would spend the time implimenting this, in fact adding "Value added service" generally only goes to successful properties... BTW Value Added Service is the marketing term for premiums available for a price. I strongly recommend anyone with similar feelings to submit /feedback every day expressing so. My account is active until early January. Its recurring billing, however, has been canceled this morning. I would urge others to consider the same. __________________

12-09-2008, 01:44 PM	#1
Aragas Lord Join Date: Sep 2008 Posts: 19	I am waiting to log in before passing final judgement, but lets just say I could not be less excited about today's patch. I have been an Everquest player since 2000. In the last 8 years there have been good decisions and bad, but today is dangerous territory. If this 'marketplace' essentially equates to RMT on all servers, allowing players to purchase coin, equipment, or other items that go beyond 'fluff', I am done. End of story. If this system only allows players to purchse house items, pets, and the like, I will likely swallow it as a bitter pill. However, if the marketplace allows people to purchase items that add to their characters strenth, and thereby their ability to 'compete,' I am done. I am not a hardcore player by any means, but simply purchasing 'power', completely defeats any purpose of an RPG. Would you enjoy a game where you start at the End, and bypass everything else? I wouldn't. And I won't. Tread carefully SOE

12-09-2008, 01:55 PM	#2
Spyderbite Server: Venekor Guild: Dark Vengeance Rank: Member Loremaster Join Date: Oct 2006 Location: Connecticut Posts: 4,262	Logged in to TestCopy just now.. Not sure if its on Live yet.. logging on to Venekor now to purchase $20 and see how it ticks.

12-09-2008, 02:13 PM	#4
Iari111 Loremaster Join Date: Jan 2005 Location: AZ Posts: 159	I am disappointed beyond words in this move of theirs. It is just one more element of EQ2 that I will pretend doesn't exist (like LoN). Feedback this issue!

12-09-2008, 02:18 PM	#5
Stratz Server: Mistmoore Guild: Gothic Angels Rank: Member Loremaster Join Date: Jul 2005 Posts: 5	Please remove this garbage from non-SE servers and put your time into fixing things that matter.

12-09-2008, 02:25 PM	#6
Aragas Lord Join Date: Sep 2008 Posts: 19	This isn't something you can 'pretend' dosn't exist. Notice all the chatter about people being concerned where all the AA is going to come from to make it to 200points, because it dosn't seem like TSO introduced 60AAs worth of AA content? Now we have AA potions (50% bonus for $10). You think thats a coinsidence? Think it's a coinsidence the introroduce this right after an otherwise sucessful expantion? Think it's a coinsidence they didn't introduce this into test to avoid the backlash? This isnt just Fluff armor graphics, house items, and pets. If you don't see platnium, gear, spells, and other abilities coming in the future through the marketplace, you are blind. Is this SOEs attempt to milk the last few dollars out of EQ2 and let it die? I strongly recommend anyone with similar feelings to submit /feedback every day expressing so. My account is active until early January. Its recurring billing, however, has been canceled this morning. I would urge others to consider the same.

12-09-2008, 05:00 PM	#11
Arianah Loremaster Join Date: May 2006 Posts: 406	I don't know if the people in charge pay as much attention to the forums as I do (and I don't even read every single post and thread), but I can tell you that the majority of us didn't like the idea of LoN in-game rewards, and now this? Aren't you supposed to be creating a game FOR US, the players? You know... the people who pay you to play this game? /sigh

12-09-2008, 05:02 PM	#12
Geothe Loremaster Join Date: Nov 2004 Posts: 2,098	kela wrote: He changed that position when they introduced LoN in the first place. Infact he even said in an interview that noone could ligitamitly say that LoN was not a form of RMT... now you just don't have to go through the motions of buying packs to get similar items... heck they probly are the same items. Exactly, he lied once, or "changed position".And when he did that last time he also stated, in regards to LoN: 5) This is not some slippery slope towards selling items directly in EQ & EQ II. And now what did they just do?Oh yes, introduced a method of selling items directly in EQ and EQII.He lied again, or "changed position."So, here he has a history of outright lying on these topics, and he's claiming that these Market items will always be "just fluff". You know, the same claim made with LoN loot items which -also- turned out to be a lie.Great track record going there.Its all BS. __________________ Smed: We aren't going to be allowing RMT in any way, shape or form on the non-exchange enabled EQ II servers. Period. End of statement. Smed: 5) This [LoN] is not some slippery slope towards selling items directly in EQ & EQ II. Lie #3: Station Cash. Enough Said.

12-09-2008, 05:07 PM	#13
Ronin SpoilSpot Loremaster Join Date: Nov 2004 Posts: 90	Geothe quoted: Originally Posted by Smed ... In any event, I wanted to stop in and at least set the record straight - you aren't going to be seeing RMT allowed on the non-exchange enabled servers. John SmedleyPresident, Sony Online Entertainment That's what really hits me, just as it did with LoN, and with moves off the test server, and probably more. Not that they change their mind, but that they have no compunctions about going back on their word without even a warning. It would have been so easy for them to say: "We know what we said, but some things have changed and we are now working on adding RMT to EQ2. Stay posted for news." Instead they waited until we have all bought the expansion ... which I wouldn't have done if I had known it then. Good business strategy, in the short term. Maybe not so good for customer relations in the long run. I guess it's the good old principle: If people can't bear to hear the truth about what you are doing ... maybe you shouldn't be doing it. /RS __________________ No RMT in EQ2! Quit 2008-12-12.

12-09-2008, 05:15 PM	#14
Tuatha Server: Everfrost Guild: Cheese Pirate Rank: Dairy Manager Loremaster Join Date: Feb 2005 Location: Norway Posts: 209	Ronin SpoilSpot wrote: they waited until we have all bought the expansion ... which I wouldn't have done if I had known it then. Good business strategy, in the short term. Maybe not so good for customer relations in the long run. I guess it's the good old principle: If people can't bear to hear the truth about what you are doing ... maybe you shouldn't be doing it. QFE __________________

12-09-2008, 05:48 PM	#15
TSR-DanielH Customer Service Join Date: May 2008 Posts: 5,593	Aragas wrote: If this 'marketplace' essentially equates to RMT on all servers, allowing players to purchase coin, equipment, or other items that go beyond 'fluff', I am done. End of story. All of the items available are fluff items, mostly. The only items that would effect your adventuring would be the potions. Even then, those items will only help you level faster and wont make you stronger than others at max level. __________________ Daniel H Technical Support Representative Sony Online Entertainment

12-09-2008, 05:52 PM	#16
Geothe Loremaster Join Date: Nov 2004 Posts: 2,098	TSR-DanielH wrote: Aragas wrote: If this 'marketplace' essentially equates to RMT on all servers, allowing players to purchase coin, equipment, or other items that go beyond 'fluff', I am done. End of story. All of the items available are fluff items, mostly. The only items that would effect your adventuring would be the potions. Even then, those items will only help you level faster and wont make you stronger than others at max level. Fluff, mostly. Meaning not all of them are.The potions are far from fluff. They are items that allow someone to spend extra money to advance faster than someone that doesn't have the excess cash to spend. That is FAR FROM "fluff".Appearance items, pets, illusions, house items, those are fluff. Any item that has an effect in combat/tradeskilling isn't... and that is a good share of what you are selling. And that is just for now.Just like LoN was going to be "just fluff" that turned out to be a fat lie. So will this current "fluff" statement.. which is a lie from the very start. __________________ Smed: We aren't going to be allowing RMT in any way, shape or form on the non-exchange enabled EQ II servers. Period. End of statement. Smed: 5) This [LoN] is not some slippery slope towards selling items directly in EQ & EQ II. Lie #3: Station Cash. Enough Said.

12-09-2008, 06:03 PM	#17
ke'la Loremaster Join Date: Dec 2004 Posts: 5,445	AGeothe wrote: TSR-DanielH wrote: Aragas wrote: If this 'marketplace' essentially equates to RMT on all servers, allowing players to purchase coin, equipment, or other items that go beyond 'fluff', I am done. End of story. All of the items available are fluff items, mostly. The only items that would effect your adventuring would be the potions. Even then, those items will only help you level faster and wont make you stronger than others at max level. Fluff, mostly. Meaning not all of them are.The potions are far from fluff. They are items that allow someone to spend extra money to advance faster than someone that doesn't have the excess cash to spend. That is FAR FROM "fluff".Appearance items, pets, illusions, house items, those are fluff. Any item that has an effect in combat/tradeskilling isn't... and that is a good share of what you are selling. And that is just for now.Just like LoN was going to be "just fluff" that turned out to be a fat lie. So will this current "fluff" statement.. which is a lie from the very start. Um, really consitering the Rate of XP gain in this game sence they lowered the amount needed to level, I personally consiter XP Pots fluff... heck I have not even used half the ones I got as Vet rewards... As for LoN items that are not fluff... name one... and no mounts don't count now that you can get one for just buying EQ2 at retail. went from level 29.6 or so to 30.6 when they did this. __________________

12-09-2008, 06:11 PM	#18
Geothe Loremaster Join Date: Nov 2004 Posts: 2,098	kela wrote: [stuff] Try working your way to 200 AAs with a lvl 80 toon, when the new quests run out at around 160-65 AA and tell me that gaining 50% more AA that whole time is just fluff. As for other non-flull LoN loot items.There are cloaks with clicky effect increasing combat damage by X amount for durations.FAR from fluff.So, more lies from SoE. Imagine that. __________________ Smed: We aren't going to be allowing RMT in any way, shape or form on the non-exchange enabled EQ II servers. Period. End of statement. Smed: 5) This [LoN] is not some slippery slope towards selling items directly in EQ & EQ II. Lie #3: Station Cash. Enough Said.

12-09-2008, 06:13 PM	#19
warstomp Loremaster Join Date: Nov 2004 Posts: 22	thanks SOE for ripping us off even more and gutting us for more money......just a load of crap

12-09-2008, 06:17 PM	#20
Tuatha Server: Everfrost Guild: Cheese Pirate Rank: Dairy Manager Loremaster Join Date: Feb 2005 Location: Norway Posts: 209	Smedley, John wrote: Thanks for the email - RMT is one player selling to another. If you look at the context of that statement it was about the launch of Station Exchange which allows players to sell to each other. I am not trying to parse words here - that's really what I meant. What we have done is put microtransactions into the game. We have also made sure to not put things in that unbalance the game in any way.I hope you will keep an open mind and look at it and how it impacts the game. That's the reply I got when I mailed him about this, sigh. __________________

12-09-2008, 06:26 PM	#21
Banditman Loremaster Join Date: Nov 2004 Posts: 7,459	There are two possibly results of this: 1. The items turn into less than fluff, and become a "surcharge" for playing the game. In this case, I'll vote with my dollars and go elsewhere. There are a number of games out there that would love my business and don't require any sort of "surcharge" for play aside from the monthly fee. 2. The items remain fluff, and the revenue generated from this allows SOE to add more developers to the team, thus enhancing my enjoyment of the game. I continue to vote with my dollars by remaining a customer, and not giving a crap if the dude standing over there has glowy red crap around his hands. The second these items become more than fluff items, SOE loses my respect and my patronage. __________________

12-09-2008, 06:29 PM	#22
Spyderbite Server: Venekor Guild: Dark Vengeance Rank: Member Loremaster Join Date: Oct 2006 Location: Connecticut Posts: 4,262	Banditman wrote: 1. The items turn into less than fluff, and become a "surcharge" for playing the game. In this case, I'll vote with my dollars and go elsewhere. There are a number of games out there that would love my business and don't require any sort of "surcharge" for play aside from the monthly fee. 3. Said company's see thousands of players dumping money into the game beyond the monthly subscriptions and you're forced to pay or quit gaming all together while millions of others fall in behind you with new subscriptions. Always easy to see the dark side it is. mhmm..

12-09-2008, 06:36 PM	#23
Rijacki Tester Join Date: Nov 2004 Posts: 7,842	Zeemeermin wrote: Smedley, John wrote: Thanks for the email - RMT is one player selling to another. If you look at the context of that statement it was about the launch of Station Exchange which allows players to sell to each other. I am not trying to parse words here - that's really what I meant. What we have done is put microtransactions into the game. We have also made sure to not put things in that unbalance the game in any way.I hope you will keep an open mind and look at it and how it impacts the game. That's the reply I got when I mailed him about this, sigh. They are spinning RMT (real money transfers or real money transactions) into a very small definition in order to continue to make a claim it doesn't exist on non-Exchange servers. Is real money being spent for in-game items? yes = RMT Is that real money spent on in-game items going to SOE? This is the part they're spinning and claiming can't be RMT 'cause the game company is the one selling the in-game items DIRECTLY to players, not players (or those with player accounts) selling to players. Earlier this year Smed did say they were working to convin.. err coerce the MMO players of today into a microtransaction + subscription model of game play. This is phase II. Phase I was LoN. __________________

12-09-2008, 06:47 PM	#24
danmuntz Loremaster Join Date: Dec 2005 Posts: 95	I'd be more content getting a +90 day account time bonus for buying TSO, like I've gotten on EVERY other expansion. This is a BAD move and just moves this game a little further onto the downslope of failure. __________________

12-09-2008, 08:11 PM	#25
Mihos Loremaster Join Date: Nov 2004 Posts: 211	TSR-DanielH wrote: Aragas wrote: If this 'marketplace' essentially equates to RMT on all servers, allowing players to purchase coin, equipment, or other items that go beyond 'fluff', I am done. End of story. All of the items available are fluff items, mostly. The only items that would effect your adventuring would be the potions. Even then, those items will only help you level faster and wont make you stronger than others at max level. You guys really don't get it do you? Everything in this game is fluff, obtaining it is the reason people grind through repetative broken quest to get the reward. First, you take something a ton of people want like a unicorn mount and put it exclusivly on a HORRIBLE out of game fircken card (the unicorn mount would have probably made the most popular questline in game), then you take the rest of what could have been a decent reward for completing a quest and ask us just to write you a @#%^@%# check for it... you guys have lost your mind and have no idea what you are doing any more. Is there even a single person who plays games work there? This goes beyond bad ideas and goes straight to incompantancy. __________________

12-09-2008, 08:47 PM	#26
Arianah Loremaster Join Date: May 2006 Posts: 406	Mihos wrote: You guys really don't get it do you? Everything in this game is fluff, obtaining it is the reason people grind through repetative broken quest to get the reward. First, you take something a ton of people want like a unicorn mount and put it exclusivly on a HORRIBLE out of game fircken card (the unicorn mount would have probably made the most popular questline in game), then you take the rest of what could have been a decent reward for completing a quest and ask us just to write you a @#%^@%# check for it... you guys have lost your mind and have no idea what you are doing any more. Is there even a single person who plays games work there? This goes beyond bad ideas and goes straight to incompantancy. Aye, this is EverQuest (II), not EverBuy....

12-09-2008, 08:50 PM	#27
Ealthina Loremaster Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: Spellbound Posts: 477	This is beyond reproach and disgusting.

12-09-2008, 09:02 PM	#28
Smed Senior Staff Join Date: Nov 2004 Posts: 22	Geothe wrote: Yep. RMT on Non-Station Servers.The very thing we were promised would NEVER HAPPEN. Originally Posted by Smed I've been a regular lurker on this site for a while but I wanted to step in here and dispel something that's just plain not true - I don't have my name highlighted here, but anyone that doubts it's me can email me at jsmedley@soe.sony.com and I'll happily reply.We aren't going to be allowing RMT in any way, shape or form on the non-exchange enabled EQ II servers. Period. End of statement. In any event, I wanted to stop in and at least set the record straight - you aren't going to be seeing RMT allowed on the non-exchange enabled servers. John SmedleyPresident, Sony Online Entertainment To put it simply - I absolutely said that, and stand by it. Allowing RMT transactions (i.e. player to player sales) is not happening on the non Live Gamer servers. That was specifically what was being discussed. I guess I can see how that quote can be taken out of context, but the truth is that discussion was specifically around when we launched Station Exchange and that is what I meant. I consider RMT to be player to player stuff and what we're doing here to be microtransactions because we are directly selling things. But I certainly don't mean to split hairs. I don't think that changes the fact that us adding this is a move that not everyone is going to be happy with. I think we're being careful to make sure nothing is game imbalancing. We aren't trying to put things in here that people "have to have". The idea was fun and convienence. Level up an alt quicker.. that kind of thing. Is this a slippery slope? I don't think so but only because you the players will simply not let it ever be a slippery slope. We intend to do a lot of cool stuff with Station Cash. I just posted in my blog with some of the future plans. i would only ask that you please see how it's going to be used and see what you think after a few days or weeks. Here's a link to the blog http://stationblog.wordpress.com/ Smed

12-09-2008, 09:10 PM	#29
TheSpin Loremaster Join Date: Dec 2004 Posts: 2,587	I would much rather pay a little more each month, remove station cash, and replace it with quests that give access to things that are planned to be available on station cash. The thing that really bothers me is that the limited resources EQ2 already has are now being spent on designing items for station cash rather than on things that actually improve the game that I already pay for. I pay 15 dollars a month gladly because I feel like a little bit of my 15 dollars is going towards making a better game. Now I have to wonder if my 15 dollars will be going towards developing armor with a cool graphic that will only be available on station cash.

12-09-2008, 09:17 PM	#30
Smed Senior Staff Join Date: Nov 2004 Posts: 22	Banditman wrote: There are two possibly results of this: 1. The items turn into less than fluff, and become a "surcharge" for playing the game. In this case, I'll vote with my dollars and go elsewhere. There are a number of games out there that would love my business and don't require any sort of "surcharge" for play aside from the monthly fee. 2. The items remain fluff, and the revenue generated from this allows SOE to add more developers to the team, thus enhancing my enjoyment of the game. I continue to vote with my dollars by remaining a customer, and not giving a crap if the dude standing over there has glowy red crap around his hands. The second these items become more than fluff items, SOE loses my respect and my patronage. Our intention is certainly #2. Everyone should realize that we love making great games here at SOE, and everyday we come to work and get to make great games. But we also have the business side of things to consider. I personally use microtransactions in other games. Magic Online for example and I play a lot of casual stuff. I'm also a heavy Battlefield 2 player and plan on playing Battlefield Heroes. That's going to be a microtransaction game... and I will absolutely pay money.. quite happily. But both of those games were designed with microtransactions in mind. Now personally I would not choose to buy items in an MMORPG because earning them is part of what's fun about playing them in the first place. I do not consider that a "grind". However I know a LOT of people that disagree with that statement and regularly buy gold in many games. So in the end it comes down to personal choice. I completely respect the opinion that this is a slippery slope on the road to a dark place. I believe in the end this is going to be a giant non-issue because you will see this more and more as time goes on in many games from many companies and I also think that if we handle it right and make sure we don't unbalance the game.. everyone can be happy. I just saw a great post on shacknews about how the new Star Wars MMO is going to be microtransaction based. http://www.shacknews.com/onearticle.x/56292 To me that's exciting.. even if I don't ever buy a single thing. It's exciting because it opens up new possibilities for us as an industry. I also think that we as players are going to be presented with different ways to pay for games like this. For example.. would you like a game where you didn't have to pay a subscription fee at all? I believe that with microtransactions that is likely to happen. A small percentage of the players will spend a dramatic amount of money and could literally give a lot of "free" gameplay to a lot of other people.. thereby opening up online games to a lot more people. I understand that we're adding this to a live game and that is the real issue here. Smed