Guild hall feedback (several merged threads)

[Thicket Tundrabog]

Lol @Bratface

I think YOU take the award for creative accounting .

24 raiders at 2 hours per raid (conservative number probably) gives you 48 played hours. In 48 played hours, my transmuter and adornment makers can earn more than 500 plat. Yes, the earnings are spread out over a month.

I must admit not knowing whether you are intentionally obtuse, or whether you actually don't get it. You DO realize that you're trying to compare the earning speed of 24 versus 1, right?

Side note: I Lol'd on testcopy server. I copied my main, who was also my adornment seller. I sold 120 plat worth of adornments in one day on testcopy. Talk about a hot market!! I'm not going to do anything with the plat though. Testcopy is only for my guild to play with the new guild hall.

[Mikkahl]

Oakthicket@Permafrost wrote:

Side note: I Lol'd on testcopy server. I copied my main, who was also my adornment seller. I sold 120 plat worth of adornments in one day on testcopy. Talk about a hot market!! I'm not going to do anything with the plat though. Testcopy is only for my guild to play with the new guild hall.

After I test copied over a dozen characters (over 2 weeks) to built up 3000 plat, then Jindrack places his Butler on the docks, and he gives you 2000 plat and a zillion status points!   Of course we are not going to do anything with our gobs of plat on Test Copy, because we CAN'T!  I wish we could transfer it back to Live, but (understandbly) that's not allowed!    They only hand it out so we can test the guild hall

[Thicket Tundrabog]

Not sure if it's been mentioned before, but I see a problem with visitor status.

Guildies that are trustees have full ability to collect or move items in the guild hall. Guildies that are visitors can't pick up items but they can move them around. I see this being a problem. For a reasonably large guild, there can easily be one immature person or jerk that thinks it's funny to move stuff around. This would get old really quickly, especially if folks have spent a lot of effort decorating the hall.

IMO, only trustees should be able to move guild hall items.

[Mikkahl]

Visitors can't move things around, but Friends can (but not place or pickup).  This has been a point of argument for many posts now, but I don't see that the devs have been able to give us any better access tools now that it's gone Live.

[gds]

Well, I finished up my Guild Hall Amenity Calculator (version 1.0).   Feel free to use it to help plan out cost of amenities for your Guild Hall.   http://members.shaw.ca/gs-eq2/hallcost.html

Edit:   I only have IE6 / 7 to play with.  If you notice other browsers having issues.  Just PM me with the problem (screen snapshot of issue maybe) and I'll see if I can find a solution.

[Wastura]

Few points: Test.copy is an irrelevant market. Infinite money and resources with periodic sweeps back to zero = completely obtuse (since we're using that buzz word.)

Bought my mythical - takes money to make money, priorities aside, wouldn't have afforded otherwise.

24-1 earning power? That's not the point.

Metal Chests? Not the point either.

Providing new content to keep end-game players interested -> Ding, ding, ding.

Cash purchased guild halls do not provide this and promote massive disparity between both rich vs. poor and well equipped vs. undergeared.

The issue wasn't about metal chests containing plat, it's the type of raw resource they carry.

I don't have the patience for an entire economics lesson but the basics that everyone should know is that it is supply vs. demand.

From this principle, we find that simply the raiders will be richer per person than the non. This is due to a flaw in thinking that the economy works like a real economy from person to person no matter power status so positioned against another of equal wealth.

This thinking falls apart with the realization that, while modelled on real world economy, is vastly different in one respect.

Raw resources are greatly more valueable than produced. Let me explain:

In the real world, if you were given all the plastic, gold, silicon, etc that a computer has, would it be cheaper or more expensive than a fully built computer of the exact same materials? Obviously cheaper whereas one is relatively worthless to a non-producer and the other has labor time invested into it.

Now in the game, yes, the raw materials needed to make a full piece of say a MC T8 chestplate is slightly cheaper than the cost to purchase a fully built one, unless you have an armorer friend willing to make it at cost (or even sometime cheaper if they have the items.) That aside, the MC becomes a mere trinket when compared to the chestplates of VP, CoDestiny or even (for many classes, perhaps all) Maiden's Chamber.

These drops are all raw resources and they are all more valuable than the produced goods of crafters. Therefore, on the whole, raiders, those that have access to these "mines" of raw materials, will have more value per person than the non-raider.

Last point; to all the people saying that it is simple for anyone to have the capital to afford these halls. Wise up, you're a get-rich-quick scheme denying solitude.

Yes, everyone could use these methods, however if everyone did, no one would be rich. You double the supply without doubling the demand, you half every participant's cut. There is an indirectly proportionate relationship between supplies and profit when the demand does not fluctuate. I would dare argue that it is even worse than this because as the consumers become supplies, their demands would ease from the market place as well. This is the foundation of the socialized economy which, as history has proven, doesn't work. And now the world is starting to see some of the dangers of laissez-faire, maybe SoE should get on the short bus first and find a happy medium or they will alienate new customers and, failing to provide better "time sinks" to their long term, end game, player base, find themselves in economical turmoil outside the digital world.

[Wilde_Night]

Did we ever get an answer on why we can not place any of the deity alters in guild halls?  This has really bummed out our guild carpenters and interior designers.

[denmom]

Aeviel@Venekor wrote:

Did we ever get an answer on why we can not place any of the deity alters in guild halls?  This has really bummed out our guild carpenters and interior designers.

Taking a guess, they're probably player flagged, as are sales crates.  Since the guild owns the hall and not the player, it'd not work.

[denmom]

I bought our T2 hall in SQ yesterday after GU49 went live, bought the five amenties that we really needed: guild hall beacon, portal to housing, harvest depot, banker, portal druid.  I'm considering the carpet, but only if we find ourselves really needing that.  I dumped all the status I had on my crafters and my main L80, plus a few of my play alts...after paying for the amenities we've enough for a few weeks of upkeep platwise and just shy of 1 mil status.  It'd not be a pain to get either coin or status, so we're not worried on upkeep.The guild hall beacon is a great item...15 mins, can use again.  I've been using it to get back to the hall, use the druid portal to another place, do business, call back.  My daughter and I were running around Antonica, had to go to Windstalker, called to the hall, portaled to the Antonica ring, ran to Windstalker.  This thing makes travel much easier.The harvest depot...now that was an amusing thing.  I cleared out all the raws I had on my crafting mule, wound up with 63 items in the depot.  That was every raw from every tier, the only food raws were a few from T1 (for when someone needed to make an Artisan for Yoru's casserole...still can't commission it...blah) and fish and shrub from T8 that I've yet to move out to my Provi.  A guildee placed all they had on them from harvesting, putting in one that I didn't have, so now we're 64/100.  I deleted my mule for another play alt.We debated the banker for some time, but it really has proven its worth so far.  Call back to the hall, empty bags, head to a house for the broker, use the magic door to get back to the hall, then use the portal druid to head back to where we were.The portal druid is another great thing for us.  We have several Wardens and mages in guild, but now we don't have to log out/log back in from what we were doing to play transport...just head into the hall, use the druid, off you go.Overall I really do like the 10 room hall, really like the atrium and how there's the clear roof to see the sky.Just wanted to give a positive review of the halls...well done, love the music, thumbs up.

[Jesdyr]

Pheep@Unrest wrote:

The portal druid is another great thing for us.  We have several Wardens and mages in guild, but now we don't have to log out/log back in from what we were doing to play transport...just head into the hall, use the druid, off you go.

Squirt, one of our guild druids, changed the name of the Protal NPC to "Squirt II" ... It was kinda funny

[Zkinea]

The mailboxes are defaulted to Friend or above and no individual amenity access ability.

We have chosen to make our members visitors since Friends can move things so currently they can not use the mailbox.

However what we REALLY need is a either a fourth access level to differentiate the public non guilded visitors from the ranks we have marked as visitors or the access level of Friend has to NOT be able to move things. ie. if I make the harvesting depot visitor ranked than the public visitors can also take stuff out of our depot.

[Bratface]

Pheep@Unrest wrote:

Aeviel@Venekor wrote:

Did we ever get an answer on why we can not place any of the deity alters in guild halls?  This has really bummed out our guild carpenters and interior designers.

Taking a guess, they're probably player flagged, as are sales crates.  Since the guild owns the hall and not the player, it'd not work.

Even the MC altars that are tradeable cannot be placed, and those are not flagged to anyone.We need a nonfunctioning altar option, crafted of course, than we can use for decoration.

[Geinoch]

Hey is there a way to increase the 1500 items maximum? and the 30 amenities???

Cause 1500 items for this big guildhouse doesn't fill the place a lot =(

[Mikkahl]

Why do the altars have to be non-functional?  What's wrong with functional altars?  But please, just let us place something!

[Oakum]

Mikkahl wrote:

Why do the altars have to be non-functional?  What's wrong with functional altars?  But please, just let us place something!

I agree, let fully functional mastercrafted or fabled alters be placed in a guild hall with friend access. It would be such a good option to let guildies go to the good, neutral, or evil chapel areas and use them, not to mention the fun of people decorating them.

Why cant they be changed to use "friend" instead of being associated with an invidual character?

[Mikkahl]

I thought their use was limited by what god you worship, not by individual character.

[Thicket Tundrabog]

Zkinea@Najena wrote:

The mailboxes are defaulted to Friend or above and no individual amenity access ability.

We have chosen to make our members visitors since Friends can move things so currently they can not use the mailbox.

However what we REALLY need is a either a fourth access level to differentiate the public non guilded visitors from the ranks we have marked as visitors or the access level of Friend has to NOT be able to move things. ie. if I make the harvesting depot visitor ranked than the public visitors can also take stuff out of our depot.

I totally agree. Give us a category where guildies can use the amenties, but not move things around.

[Eveningsong]

Bratface wrote:

Pheep@Unrest wrote:

Aeviel@Venekor wrote:

Did we ever get an answer on why we can not place any of the deity alters in guild halls? This has really bummed out our guild carpenters and interior designers.

Taking a guess, they're probably player flagged, as are sales crates. Since the guild owns the hall and not the player, it'd not work.

Even the MC altars that are tradeable cannot be placed, and those are not flagged to anyone.We need a nonfunctioning altar option, crafted of course, than we can use for decoration.

Actually, while I do want altars mostly for decoration, I also would like to see functioning altars available.  I see us using the guild hall as a meeting area for our groups, and so I've started putting in some of the no-trade items I have which give the hour buffs.  I'd also like to have some functioning altars available so that we can all refresh our diety abilities and buff up before we port out to wherever we plan to adventure.  One person in the Test chat channel pointed out that the raid drop altar she's been holding doesn't really belong to her, it is the guild's property that she holds for them and they want it to be useable by the guild.  Since folks with friend (I think) and trustee access can use altars of the appropriate diety in someone else's house, seems like it should be reasonable to provide the same ability in a guild hall.

[Bratface]

Mikkahl wrote:

Why do the altars have to be non-functional?  What's wrong with functional altars?  But please, just let us place something!

I agree, I personally would prefer them to be usable in guild halls, I made the nonfunctional comment because it seems the devs don't want the functionality in the guild halls for some strange reason.I merely suggested an alternative to the usable ones so we could at least have something we could use for decorating.I want the regular ones to be placed in guild halls, I think not having them in guild halls is stupid, but when has that ever stopped something from being stupid in this game? 

[Doodar]

It would be cool to have all Deity's represented in a room by use of the Altars, or across the whole Guild hall strategically placed.

[chily]

Bratface wrote:

Mikkahl wrote:

Why do the altars have to be non-functional?  What's wrong with functional altars?  But please, just let us place something!

I agree, I personally would prefer them to be usable in guild halls, I made the nonfunctional comment because it seems the devs don't want the functionality in the guild halls for some strange reason.I merely suggested an alternative to the usable ones so we could at least have something we could use for decorating.I want the regular ones to be placed in guild halls, I think not having them in guild halls is stupid, but when has that ever stopped something from being stupid in this game? 

Would love to place fabled in guild hall really

[chily]

A other thing that i saw yesterday about guild hall guards:You can scale them while moving but it doesn't take effect once placed.If you pick the (huge or tiny) guard up you see a scaled body, but after placing it returns to normal of the race.Would be nice to deactive the scaleing of guards since you can't scale em anyway.*edit*The remove amenity only says do you really want to remove this amenty? but no that we get only 50% or purchace price back Annoying only because i played around with the 4 entrance statues till i found the 2 i wanted S, N, E, W isn't the best of all descriptions for those for me somehow A preview in there there fix position would be really nice, for like 1min for free or so. just to see which you will get :/

[Rageincarnate]

So, after having guild halls for a day nowish?  How many have their depots full?

[Lady Shai]

bluedego wrote:

So, after having guild halls for a day nowish?  How many have their depots full?

Not quite near "full" but we have 92/100 on ours atm And we have harvesting junkies who LOVE to go harvest so they have been loving this thing...filling it up

And people are still adding.... I was able to clear out my tradeskillers endless supplies, and get rid of my mule too I love it...we have so many crafters!! Kind of surprised tho, we had to get the work order boards from the TS areas in the cities to use the TS writ givers....they gave us the writs but we couldn't get them to give us the quest till we got the work order boards.  For some reason I didnt think we needed them in the Hall...or would be sold on the merchant there but no worries....

Its just funny to see 19k deklium clusters and 10k belladonna roots there...its a great amenitie and I am glad we got it

BUT....as others have said it would be very nice to

1. Have another access so people cant move things w/out permission
2. Have that access also allow guildies to donate items to guild AND get them back without giving them trustee rights
3. Have altars be able to be placed and used by guildies
4. Have the amenities like the portals etc  NOT be useable by visitors, only guildies. Seems only some are guild only, but others can be used by anyone who visits.
5. Have the raid rally flag guy only be accessed by certain ranks to avoid problems.

[Qandor]

Lady Shai wrote:

And people are still adding.... I was able to clear out my tradeskillers endless supplies, and get rid of my mule too I love it...we have so many crafters!! Kind of surprised tho, we had to get the work order boards from the TS areas in the cities to use the TS writ givers....they gave us the writs but we couldn't get them to give us the quest till we got the work order boards.  For some reason I didnt think we needed them in the Hall...or would be sold on the merchant there but no worries....

You can buy the boards right there in the hall from the rush order NPC. Just right click on the agent and pick buy, it is the only thing he/she sells.

I have 3 basic complaints about halls as of now.

1. I feel the item limit of 1,000 for the T2 halls is too low and I'm certain, although we do not have the T3, that the limit of 1,500 is too low there as well.

2. The fuel vendor buys nothing. I mean he will not even buy fuel back which makes no sense. I know why they did it that way since they did not want to compromise the utilty of the Guild Commodities Exporter but it really hurts not having a merchant that will buy in the crafting area. Can we at least have the fuel merchant buy back fuel and crafted items?

3. I generally reposistion NPC's in the hall until I have a look I like for them, however that look does not seem to stay. Next time I log in or zone into the hall they are often different, their skin color, hairstyle, hair color, etc. have changed. No other guild member is changing them since I had the same thing happen on test when I was there alone. Could we have an option to lock an appearnce in that would hold true permanently, preferrably when even moving the NPC? It is a small but annoying thing.

[chily]

Lady Shai wrote:

Have the amenities like the portals etc  NOT be useable by visitors, only guildies. Seems only some are guild only, but others can be used by anyone who visits.

Set the general access to guild hall to visitor.And set the access for the druid to Friends, this can be done with the house window. Pick the Druid ring in the list and set the needed access to friends.This way only your guild members can use it.You may allso set the right's in the guild window each rank to friend at least.

[Mikkahl]

Chillispike@Splitpaw wrote:

Lady Shai wrote:

Have the amenities like the portals etc  NOT be useable by visitors, only guildies. Seems only some are guild only, but others can be used by anyone who visits.

Set the general access to guild hall to visitor.And set the access for the druid to Friends, this can be done with the house window. Pick the Druid ring in the list and set the needed access to friends.This way only your guild members can use it.You may allso set the right's in the guild window each rank to friend at least.

What they are referring to is the mariner's bells, spires, and magic carpet do NOT have a settable access level, but are available to all Visitors.

That personally doesn't bother me, as it's no cost to the guild if some visitor uses them.  In fact, since our first two newbie guild levels are Visitors (so they can't immediately move stuff or get to the depot) we've set the Druid, banker, broker, teleporter pads, etc. to Visitor access as well.  We may change some of those if it gets to be a problem, but we kind of like being a social gathering area, where we can meet other players and guilds.

[Hajji2]

I'm sure I will repeat points that others have made on this and other threads, but I want to add my voice to them for discussion and possible attention by SOE.

First off, the halls are very impressive, good job to the designers on that score!Two problems I forsee (so far):Note that I use the term "world items" below to mean any item brought from the game world into the hall, such as crafted, quested or status-faction items.

1) These top end halls are immense (at least 40 times the square footage of the largest player residence, and the item limit is only 3 times the unmodified max player housing limit (1500)? Unless people REALLY space out the items in each room, guilds will end up with a modicum of fully decorated rooms, and a large number of vacant rooms.  This needs to be increased...I understand that the zone shard may have limitations on the number of items it can hold and process, but for buildings of this scale 1500 is not enough.

2) Permissions are insufficient.  The old 3-level system worked for player residences, but are not suitable for guild halls.  As it stands in order for a member to be able to add world items to a hall, they must be a trustee (which includes the ability to add other trustees, as well as nearly full administrative access to the hall). This is unacceptable for several reasons, not the least of which is that a person with trustee access can effectively screw the guild, whether intentionally or not, by moving, deleting or otherwise removing amenities that the guild has paid for.  The system needs to be revamped so that each type of item can be given a different set of permissions to allow people to place world items but not have administrative control of the hall's contents. Leadership needs a way to lock down amenities to prevent people (think real-world here, people do this every day just for laughs) from moving brokers, strategists, etc or changing their names to some idiotic name.  The same applies to the internal portal system...there needs to be a level of control that does not get delegated with the ability to place world items. Members could change the portal locations, or even remove the system altogether by use of the Collect Portals option, which would mean having to completely redeploy and name them all over again (we have had this happen twice already).

I hope that these issues are addressed soon, as we are seriously considering restricting placement access to one or two people in the guild until the permission system is corrected just to save ourselves the trouble of having to constantly police the amenities.

[maphrodite]

One thing i would love to see is either merge some of the amenties like the fuel merchant and the export commodities so that one npc will sell and buy stuff

Another thing our guild reached lvl 30 and we had bugetted to 10 amenties then when we finally got the guild hall we could only get 5 as we are a tradeskilling guild we went for the supply depot and the hirelings and the rush order npc which maxed us out we would of also liked the recipe merchant ( also could be merged with the fuel merchant) and cos we have toons from both sides the teleportation beacon and and the port to send back to the members house. So can the amenties in the t1 guild halls be upped to 10 pls as this would help us no end.

my thinking on that was that t1 would get 10 t2 would get 20 and t3 would get 30 i dont see why t1 only got 5 if people are willing to put the effort in to keep them then they are happy to pay what ever the up-keep is per week.

 Also i would like to see the scrolls and statues actually reduce the rent status as it seems silly these were given as a reward for the harvesting the supplies for the building of the guild halls but cant be used in reducing the cost

one other thing i would love to see is that once you have a guild hall that you automaticly get the call to guild hall as this would again save on an amenty to slot

[Elygron]

maphrodite wrote:

One thing i would love to see is either merge some of the amenties like the fuel merchant and the export commodities so that one npc will sell and buy stuff

Another thing our guild reached lvl 30 and we had bugetted to 10 amenties then when we finally got the guild hall we could only get 5 as we are a tradeskilling guild we went for the supply depot and the hirelings and the rush order npc which maxed us out we would of also liked the recipe merchant ( also could be merged with the fuel merchant) and cos we have toons from both sides the teleportation beacon and and the port to send back to the members house. So can the amenties in the t1 guild halls be upped to 10 pls as this would help us no end.

my thinking on that was that t1 would get 10 t2 would get 20 and t3 would get 30 i dont see why t1 only got 5 if people are willing to put the effort in to keep them then they are happy to pay what ever the up-keep is per week.

 Also i would like to see the scrolls and statues actually reduce the rent status as it seems silly these were given as a reward for the harvesting the supplies for the building of the guild halls but cant be used in reducing the cost

one other thing i would love to see is that once you have a guild hall that you automaticly get the call to guild hall as this would again save on an amenty to slot

If you level your guild higher you can get up to 15 slots in the t1 hall (i think you need to be guild level 50 to have the full access to all 15) - i think its with level 35 that you get 2 more slots - so keep making that tasks to level.

Concerning the rent and status reduction i dont think it should happen since you would see big halls with 1500 statues and thats not a good idea in my opinion *G*