Ninja changes to heroic mobs in Karnors - Page 2

EasternKing · 09-12-2008, 04:03 PM

Svann wrote:

Thread might be more useful if it was discussing whether a change was made and if so whether it was good or bad, rather than a discussion of the intentions or morality of the OP. If the point of the thread is only what the OP said then I think it is off topic for this forum and should be moved.

and why pray tell would a topic about combat mechanics, be in the wrong forums when its in COMBAT and general gameplay discussion?

Noaani · 09-12-2008, 04:17 PM

EasternKing wrote:

Noaani wrote:
Davngr1 wrote:
wiz and conj do have snares and do use them.
We use the spells with snares on them, but not for the snare component. I mage that tries to snare a mob is a mage that needs to be peeled off the floor.
please stop lying, every mage i know makes sure they have a snare on the mob in case there root breaks, thus allowing them much much more time to get it re rooted. or youre going to tell me that mages on your server cannot comprehend how a mob being snared will keep them alive when a root breaks? i mean really, you rock man. keep it up.

I'm lying?

Wizards do not use snares on mobs. We use roots. However, we are lucky enough that when our roots expire or break, they snare the mobs for us.

You obviously do not have a clue what you are talking about when it comes to mages, but thanks for playing.

EasternKing · 09-12-2008, 04:27 PM

Noaani wrote:

EasternKing wrote:
Noaani wrote:
Davngr1 wrote:
wiz and conj do have snares and do use them.
We use the spells with snares on them, but not for the snare component. I mage that tries to snare a mob is a mage that needs to be peeled off the floor.
please stop lying, every mage i know makes sure they have a snare on the mob in case there root breaks, thus allowing them much much more time to get it re rooted. or youre going to tell me that mages on your server cannot comprehend how a mob being snared will keep them alive when a root breaks? i mean really, you rock man. keep it up.
I'm lying?
Wizards do not use snares on mobs. We use roots. However, we are lucky enough that when our roots expire or break, they snare the mobs for us.
You obviously do not have a clue what you are talking about when it comes to mages, but thanks for playing.

so you dont use flames of velious? and keep it on the mob all the time as much as possible?

woolf2k · 09-12-2008, 04:33 PM

as far as I'm concerned...you shouldn't be soloing ANY heroics unless they're gray... so "BRING IT DOWN, BRING IT ALL DOWN!"SOE POWER!

liveja · 09-12-2008, 04:43 PM

EasternKing wrote:

.in my usual travels of solo farming
[snippage]if you wanted to remove solo farmers from KC all you needed to do was go the way of Seb : stun stifle root immunitys, then for the most part it would be good bye solo/duo farmers.

I'm confused. First, you openly say you solo farm (I assume as a Brigand) in KC. Then, you say that if SOE wanted to remove solo farmers from KC, they should give all those mobs stun-stifle-root immunity.

Which is it? You're solo farming KC as a Brigand, but you're complaining that your hit rates suck .... & then saying that SOE should have done something ELSE to get rid of solo farmers??? Seriously, if your goal is to assist SOE in getting rid of solo farmers, then .... I'm sorry, I'm not seeing your point.

I note that stun-stifle-root immunity would most likely adversely affect casters more than it would a Brigand, which is precisely why people correctly said you're advocating a Mage nerf. Was that your point, maybe?

& no, when I solo my Wizzie, I don't snare the mob after I root it; I nuke twice, re-Root, wash-rinse-repeat. My snare spell is something I use solely for the damage it does -- precisely as Noaani said.

jaguarjp · 09-12-2008, 04:57 PM

Flaye@Mistmoore wrote:

EasternKing wrote:
.in my usual travels of solo farming
[snippage]if you wanted to remove solo farmers from KC all you needed to do was go the way of Seb : stun stifle root immunitys, then for the most part it would be good bye solo/duo farmers.
I'm confused. First, you openly say you solo farm (I assume as a Brigand) in KC. Then, you say that if SOE wanted to remove solo farmers from KC, they should give all those mobs stun-stifle-root immunity.
Which is it? You're solo farming KC as a Brigand, but you're complaining that your hit rates suck .... & then saying that SOE should have done something ELSE to get rid of solo farmers??? Seriously, if your goal is to assist SOE in getting rid of solo farmers, then .... I'm sorry, I'm not seeing your point.
I note that stun-stifle-root immunity would most likely adversely affect casters more than it would a Brigand, which is precisely why people correctly said you're advocating a Mage nerf. Was that your point, maybe?
& no, when I solo my Wizzie, I don't snare the mob after I root it; I nuke twice, re-Root, wash-rinse-repeat. My snare spell is something I use solely for the damage it does -- precisely as Noaani said.

Actually, a Brigand needs to have Stun and Root to be able to count on the big back attacks that make up a high percentage of their soloing damage. Think about it: if you're a soloing Brigand, you have aggro. That means the mob is facing you. How to get to the back to stab it? Either stun & jump around, or Root with their one CA that Roots & prevents direction change, and then stab away. Even when snare kiting, a Brigand can rush in for some back attacks, and then dance back out of melee range before taking much damage.

So in the dungeon soloing context, a Brigand would be just as much sunk if they added the Stun-Stifle-Root immunity.

I think the posters who pointed out the OP's remark about wondering if Mage resist rates were also increased to accompany the perceived increase in the rate of CA misses, were on the right track. ; )

Noaani · 09-12-2008, 05:02 PM

EasternKing wrote:

so you dont use flames of velious? and keep it on the mob all the time as much as possible?

With a 24 second recast, and a 4 second duration, whats the point?

As i said, it is used for its damage, not its snare. It is essentially a 6k DD, the 4th largest we have that we can cast from range.

EasternKing · 09-12-2008, 05:06 PM

Flaye@Mistmoore wrote:

EasternKing wrote:
.in my usual travels of solo farming
[snippage]if you wanted to remove solo farmers from KC all you needed to do was go the way of Seb : stun stifle root immunitys, then for the most part it would be good bye solo/duo farmers.
I'm confused. First, you openly say you solo farm (I assume as a Brigand) in KC. Then, you say that if SOE wanted to remove solo farmers from KC, they should give all those mobs stun-stifle-root immunity.
Which is it? You're solo farming KC as a Brigand, but you're complaining that your hit rates suck .... & then saying that SOE should have done something ELSE to get rid of solo farmers??? Seriously, if your goal is to assist SOE in getting rid of solo farmers, then .... I'm sorry, I'm not seeing your point.
I note that stun-stifle-root immunity would most likely adversely affect casters more than it would a Brigand, which is precisely why people correctly said you're advocating a Mage nerf. Was that your point, maybe?
& no, when I solo my Wizzie, I don't snare the mob after I root it; I nuke twice, re-Root, wash-rinse-repeat. My snare spell is something I use solely for the damage it does -- precisely as Noaani said.

as someone already said, brigands utilize stuns and roots to solo, so the change would be just as bad for me as it would for mages.fair enough on the flames of velious thing. must just be something i see wizzys on my server using a fair bit then. damage or not it still helps the mob not reach you to get it rooted again. but im done arguing pointless semantics about which spells a wiz uses for what part of its effect.still no one here addressed the main part of my post, i shouldnt be shocked by it really, after all this is the offical forums.last time trying it : why are green con heroic mobs in the weakest dungeon in RoK harder to hit than mobs of higher levels in other zones, and why are they harder to hit than epic mobs?and to the person im quoting, no i dont belive they should be trying to eliminate solo farming from the game, but if the changes have been made to cut down on solo farming in kc, they could have done it a much better way, and not broken there own con and tiering system to do it. hope that clears that confusion up for you.

EasternKing · 09-12-2008, 05:08 PM

Jaine@Nagafen wrote:

as far as I'm concerned...you shouldn't be soloing ANY heroics unless they're gray... so "BRING IT DOWN, BRING IT ALL DOWN!"SOE POWER!

yeah cos people havent been soloing heroic mobs in eq2 since the game launched, do you actually have anything of worth to contribute to the topic at hand ? or just going to keep spewing out flame bait?

liveja · 09-12-2008, 05:14 PM

EasternKing wrote:

but if the changes have been made to cut down on solo farming in kc

Can we see some actual, irrefutable proof that changes were made, before we speculate as to how they could have been done better?

But OK, I understand the rest of your point, I suppose. It still came across to me as something you wanted to see changing for the detriment of others, & not yourself.

I didn't know Brigands had a Root, other than WTP.

liveja · 09-12-2008, 05:18 PM

jaguarjp wrote:

if you're a soloing Brigand, you have aggro. That means the mob is facing you. How to get to the back to stab it? Either stun & jump around, or Root with their one CA that Roots & prevents direction change.

I'm a Swashy who solos a lot. I have 2 methods of getting back around a mob's rear: Cheap Shot, & Walk The Plank. WTP spins & roots the mob; it lasts about 2 seconds, at most. All Scouts have Cheap Shot; all Rogues have the ability to get WTP.

I'm unaware of any other Root that Brigands may have; do they have one, besides Walk The Plank? If so ... must be nice!

Kiara · 09-12-2008, 05:18 PM

Wow... So here we are, and we've already been asked to be polite in the discussion...But yet people are calling others liars and generally being a little nasty.Let's see if we can make this a little more clear then.Stop flaming each other, stop calling each other names.Discuss the subject all you like, but stop the personal attacks.Please and thank you.

jaguarjp · 09-12-2008, 05:22 PM

Flaye@Mistmoore wrote:

jaguarjp wrote:
if you're a soloing Brigand, you have aggro. That means the mob is facing you. How to get to the back to stab it? Either stun & jump around, or Root with their one CA that Roots & prevents direction change.
I'm a Swashy who solos a lot. I have 2 methods of getting back around a mob's rear: Cheap Shot, & Walk The Plank. WTP spins & roots the mob; it lasts about 2 seconds, at most. All Scouts have Cheap Shot; all Rogues have the ability to get WTP.
I'm unaware of any other Root that Brigands may have; do they have one, besides Walk The Plank? If so ... must be nice!

They sure do! That's why my 60 Swash is now just my broker mule. Brigands get a 6 second root that prevents direction change. On a 1 min recast.

So a Brigand can use Cheap Shot, their 6-second root/ no direction change, their 4 second stun, WTP....

Good times

liveja · 09-12-2008, 05:28 PM

jaguarjp wrote:

So a Brigand can use Cheap Shot, their 6-second root/ no direction change, their 4 second stun, WTP....
Good times

Good times, indeed. Thanx for the correction.

But, I'll keep my beloved Swashy.

Noaani · 09-12-2008, 05:57 PM

Flaye@Mistmoore wrote:

EasternKing wrote:
but if the changes have been made to cut down on solo farming in kc
Can we see some actual, irrefutable proof that changes were made, before we speculate as to how they could have been done better

I've actually been farming KC names on a brawler for the past 2 hours, between posting in this thread and others, there has been no change that I can see.

I find the whole thing amusing tbh.

EasternKing · 09-12-2008, 06:59 PM

Noaani wrote:

Flaye@Mistmoore wrote:
EasternKing wrote:
but if the changes have been made to cut down on solo farming in kc
Can we see some actual, irrefutable proof that changes were made, before we speculate as to how they could have been done better
I've actually been farming KC names on a brawler for the past 2 hours, between posting in this thread and others, there has been no change that I can see.
I find the whole thing amusing tbh.

try on your brig please. thats where im having issues, my main ca's are missing a lot more than they ever have, and im not the only brgand who has noticed this change.i can load up my ACT from before last gu and after it and compile a factual post if i really need to, fact of the matter is im seeing hit rates of 0%-50% on cas that have +90% hit bonus.its great your not seeing anything diff on a brawler, i mean you fight it from the front anyway and always have the full effect of a mobs Defense to deal with, a diff ball game entirely than a Brigand.

Noaani · 09-12-2008, 07:13 PM

EasternKing wrote:

try on your brig please. thats where im having issues, my main ca's are missing a lot more than they ever have, and im not the only brgand who has noticed this change.i can load up my ACT from before last gu and after it and compile a factual post if i really need to, fact of the matter is im seeing hit rates of 0%-50% on cas that have +90% hit bonus.its great your not seeing anything diff on a brawler, i mean you fight it from the front anyway and always have the full effect of a mobs Defense to deal with, a diff ball game entirely than a Brigand.

0% hit rate? Why do I not believe that?

Post a continuous sample of 10 encounters, and show me a combat art that was used in each of those encounters that has a 0% hit rate, hell, I have a hard time even believing a 50% hit rate on anything from a brigand.

If what you are saying is actually true (I am putting it down to a bad run on the RNG), then it is not an issue with the mobs in KC, but rather an issue with brigands, or with your specific character. I suggest getting hard facts to post before making any further posts, and also start any similar threads in the future with hard facts.

Soluss2 · 09-12-2008, 08:30 PM

EasternKing wrote:

Noaani wrote:
Davngr1 wrote:
wiz and conj do have snares and do use them.
We use the spells with snares on them, but not for the snare component. I mage that tries to snare a mob is a mage that needs to be peeled off the floor.
please stop lying, every mage i know makes sure they have a snare on the mob in case there root breaks, thus allowing them much much more time to get it re rooted. or youre going to tell me that mages on your server cannot comprehend how a mob being snared will keep them alive when a root breaks? i mean really, you rock man. keep it up.

Please stop posting like you know what you are talking about. There is no casted backup snare. We have a snare that does damage. The snare portion of that damage lasts for 4 seconds and is on a fairly long cooldown. When a root breaks it applies a snare to the mob. It does not always apply the snare to the mob though. It has already been explained to you about our snares.

1 Resisted root on a heroic mob is a dead wizard. You might get lucky and have time to cast your other root but not likely. I have roots resisted 5 times in a row on a normal even con mob......quite often.

Svann · 09-12-2008, 08:39 PM

Soluss2 wrote:

EasternKing wrote:
Noaani wrote:
Davngr1 wrote:
wiz and conj do have snares and do use them.
We use the spells with snares on them, but not for the snare component. I mage that tries to snare a mob is a mage that needs to be peeled off the floor.
please stop lying, every mage i know makes sure they have a snare on the mob in case there root breaks, thus allowing them much much more time to get it re rooted. or youre going to tell me that mages on your server cannot comprehend how a mob being snared will keep them alive when a root breaks? i mean really, you rock man. keep it up.
Please stop posting like you know what you are talking about. There is no casted backup snare. We have a snare that does damage. The snare portion of that damage lasts for 4 seconds and is on a fairly long cooldown. When a root breaks it applies a snare to the mob. It does not always apply the snare to the mob though. It has already been explained to you about our snares.
1 Resisted root on a heroic mob is a dead wizard. You might get lucky and have time to cast your other root but not likely. I have roots resisted 5 times in a row on a normal even con mob......quite often.

Huh? Wizards have 2 roots. A single target and a encounter root. They stack. When one breaks you stop nuking till you can reapply the one that broke.

LygerT · 09-12-2008, 10:29 PM

i was curious so i went in to check it out. for me, nothing is any different than it was the past few weeks i went into the zone solo, the heroics are no harder to hit than they were before, granted i am a zerker and not a brigand.

oops, i probably shouldn't have said my class, now maybe i'll log in one day and find out that the little green men visited the zone and now i can't kill anything anymore... sounds fishy to me, and i think the OP just had a bad luck run streak with the RNG, it's happened to me before too where a mob gets a string of hits and owns me, several times in a row.

Pitt Hammerfi · 09-12-2008, 10:35 PM

OH BOOO HOOOO

SK's in T7 used to be able to solo Yellow triple ups.. Now we can't even solo around Karnors (the supposedly easiest group zone to try solo)

When i go in to Karnors i see mages and many other classes soloing with ease, and it just makes me angry remembering back to the days when SK's could solo at least some heroic content.

I feel cheated, The mobs in karnors (and all T8 heroics) simply hit too hard for our tiny lifetaps to keep up with the damage now.

Bring back our 3% heal AA, and add a new option to increase it to 5% please

Giral · 09-13-2008, 03:57 AM

Pitt Hammerfist wrote:

OH BOOO HOOOO
SK's in T7 used to be able to solo Yellow triple ups.. Now we can't even solo around Karnors (the supposedly easiest group zone to try solo)
When i go in to Karnors i see mages and many other classes soloing with ease, and it just makes me angry remembering back to the days when SK's could solo at least some heroic content.
I feel cheated, The mobs in karnors (and all T8 heroics) simply hit too hard for our tiny lifetaps to keep up with the damage now.
Bring back our 3% heal AA, and add a new option to increase it to 5% please

i feel yah there brother

Davngr1 · 09-13-2008, 07:25 AM

Soluss2 wrote:

1 Resisted root on a heroic mob is a dead wizard. You might get lucky and have time to cast your other root but not likely. I have roots resisted 5 times in a row on a normal even con mob......quite often.

when the mob resist root use your lvl 52 snare. works like charm if you have room to kite

Pitt Hammerfist wrote:

OH BOOO HOOOO
SK's in T7 used to be able to solo Yellow triple ups.. Now we can't even solo around Karnors (the supposedly easiest group zone to try solo)
When i go in to Karnors i see mages and many other classes soloing with ease, and it just makes me angry remembering back to the days when SK's could solo at least some heroic content.
I feel cheated, The mobs in karnors (and all T8 heroics) simply hit too hard for our tiny lifetaps to keep up with the damage now.
Bring back our 3% heal AA, and add a new option to increase it to 5% please

and who can you blame for this? PvP i think it's time re work AA so there is seperate PvP and PvE.

Noaani · 09-13-2008, 08:04 AM

Davngr1 wrote:

when the mob resist root use your lvl 52 snare. works like charm if you have room to kite

If your killing anything worth the effort, you are dead before you are in range for Numbing Cold to work.

EasternKing · 09-13-2008, 09:49 AM

ok this is from today in kc, first is rainbrittle, killed me then i killed him merged fight. 2nd parse posted is vorador, killed me twice and then i killed it, highlighted the relevant area's on each picture.

i have tons of stuff like this since last gu got patched in, last picture Comp thrust 6 attacks 3 hits, thats my primary def debuff, it has a 90% bonus to hit at m1, it miss's less on epic mobs.now if no one else, other than the few brigs i speak to have experianced this, then i dunno what to think, all i know is my ca's never ever used to miss the same mobs in KC anything like they do now after the last gu.

Lenefir · 09-13-2008, 10:22 AM

You can't be serious...?!You can't seriously come here and claim melee/scout/brigand/you are nerfed because you hit 1 of 3 hits (33% hit chance), or that you hit 10 of 12 hits (83% hit chance). If you think that is good enough to actually get a dev to look into things then I too would like to show parses of my warlock where I have have 5 of 6 spells resisted in a row (not on the starting root, for those actually wondering how I managed to live through it)!If you really are serious, I think you need to learn some basic statistics before yelling like the world is ending, not to mention trying to drag the whole mage class down with you. Because in the event that something related to your character actually was nerfed somewhere, backing up your cries with fights for a total of 2 minute combat is not going to show anything useful. Oh, yes, except despite your major nerfage you still managed to do 4.3k dps. Want some cheese from my ratonga to comfort you?

EasternKing · 09-13-2008, 10:31 AM

Laniala@Crushbone wrote:

You can't be serious...?!You can't seriously come here and claim melee/scout/brigand/you are nerfed because you hit 1 of 3 hits (33% hit chance), or that you hit 10 of 12 hits (83% hit chance). If you think that is good enough to actially get a dev to look into things then I too would like to show parses of my warlock where I have have 5 of 6 spells resisted in a row (not on the starting root, for those actually wondering how I managed to live through it)!If you really are serious, I think you need to learn some basic statistics before yelling like the world is ending, not to mention trying to drag the whole mage class down with you. Because in the event that something related to your character actually was nerfed somewhere, backing up your cries with fights for a total of 2 minute combat is not going to show anything useful. Oh, yes, except despite your major nerfage you still managed to do 4.3k dps. Want some cheese from my ratonga to comfort you?

grats on reading the thread. i hit more accuratly on orange con epics than i do solo in KC, something had been changed, a primary def debuff with +90% to hit should not be missing anywhere near below 5% on a green con heroic, atm that ca is 0-50% hit rate for me, if you cannot see thats wrong let me help you.as i said i have hours and hours worth of combat logs showing this stuff in KC, it does not need spamming in this thread, if the dev responsible wants to see it i can pm it him nps at allbut to try help you understand some, im a brigand pretty much im 2nd person after the first person engages a mob to hit it, my very first CA is Comp Thrust, now this is a parse from vpeak wings 1+2+3 apart from mobs after silver wing.look very very carefully at COMP thrust and its Attacks / HITS and HIT%

yes thats right, the ca i use first on orange con epic mobs, and im the very first person to land any attack on a mob after its been pulled has a 98% hit rate, it missed 2 times in over an hour of fighting T4 raid contenti goto KC and it miss's nearly every single time i use it first on GREEN CON HEROIC MOBS.can you grasp that something is very wrong yet.

Vumael · 09-13-2008, 10:39 AM

Welcome to EQ buddy. They've been doing Ninja nerfs almost since release of EQ1.

I used to solo Chelsith with ease.... Suddenly a few months ago the names started nuking for between 5-8kish....

***NEVER MENTIONED IN PATCH NOTES***

I can still solo Chelsith, but now it's marginally harder

EasternKing · 09-13-2008, 10:43 AM

Vumael wrote:

Welcome to EQ buddy. They've been doing Ninja nerfs almost since release of EQ1.
I used to solo Chelsith with ease.... Suddenly a few months ago the names started nuking for between 5-8kish....
***NEVER MENTIONED IN PATCH NOTES***
I can still solo Chelsith, but now it's marginally harder

yeah me to, and yes it was never mentioned in notes anywhere that they gave all the yha-lei named a 10sec recast nuke aqua blast, it just makes life harder sure, but like you i still solo them.its just getting old fast, if they dont want people solo'ing heroic mobs they need to make more heroic content thats challenging for people, period.

Vumael · 09-13-2008, 10:47 AM

Yeah, funny thing is I also noticed other "Ninja" changes that they were playing around with Chelsith following that.

Suspicious leashing issues and mobs becoming non-kos temporarily...

My pets aquiring a target at a slightly unusual delay regularly...

and a few other things, but these have since reverted back to normal functionality. I agree entirely though, heroic content should be more challenging.

09-12-2008, 04:03 PM	#31
EasternKing Loremaster Join Date: Mar 2005 Posts: 1,023	Svann wrote: Thread might be more useful if it was discussing whether a change was made and if so whether it was good or bad, rather than a discussion of the intentions or morality of the OP. If the point of the thread is only what the OP said then I think it is off topic for this forum and should be moved. and why pray tell would a topic about combat mechanics, be in the wrong forums when its in COMBAT and general gameplay discussion?

09-12-2008, 04:17 PM	#32
Noaani Loremaster Join Date: Mar 2005 Posts: 6,077	EasternKing wrote: Noaani wrote: Davngr1 wrote: wiz and conj do have snares and do use them. We use the spells with snares on them, but not for the snare component. I mage that tries to snare a mob is a mage that needs to be peeled off the floor. please stop lying, every mage i know makes sure they have a snare on the mob in case there root breaks, thus allowing them much much more time to get it re rooted. or youre going to tell me that mages on your server cannot comprehend how a mob being snared will keep them alive when a root breaks? i mean really, you rock man. keep it up. I'm lying? Wizards do not use snares on mobs. We use roots. However, we are lucky enough that when our roots expire or break, they snare the mobs for us. You obviously do not have a clue what you are talking about when it comes to mages, but thanks for playing. __________________ The superior man knows what is right. The inferior man knows what will sell. Confucius

09-12-2008, 04:27 PM	#33
EasternKing Loremaster Join Date: Mar 2005 Posts: 1,023	Noaani wrote: EasternKing wrote: Noaani wrote: Davngr1 wrote: wiz and conj do have snares and do use them. We use the spells with snares on them, but not for the snare component. I mage that tries to snare a mob is a mage that needs to be peeled off the floor. please stop lying, every mage i know makes sure they have a snare on the mob in case there root breaks, thus allowing them much much more time to get it re rooted. or youre going to tell me that mages on your server cannot comprehend how a mob being snared will keep them alive when a root breaks? i mean really, you rock man. keep it up. I'm lying? Wizards do not use snares on mobs. We use roots. However, we are lucky enough that when our roots expire or break, they snare the mobs for us. You obviously do not have a clue what you are talking about when it comes to mages, but thanks for playing. so you dont use flames of velious? and keep it on the mob all the time as much as possible?

09-12-2008, 04:43 PM	#35
liveja General Join Date: Sep 2005 Location: Foster's Home For Imaginary Friends Posts: 4,793	EasternKing wrote: .in my usual travels of solo farming [snippage]if you wanted to remove solo farmers from KC all you needed to do was go the way of Seb : stun stifle root immunitys, then for the most part it would be good bye solo/duo farmers. I'm confused. First, you openly say you solo farm (I assume as a Brigand) in KC. Then, you say that if SOE wanted to remove solo farmers from KC, they should give all those mobs stun-stifle-root immunity. Which is it? You're solo farming KC as a Brigand, but you're complaining that your hit rates suck .... & then saying that SOE should have done something ELSE to get rid of solo farmers??? Seriously, if your goal is to assist SOE in getting rid of solo farmers, then .... I'm sorry, I'm not seeing your point. I note that stun-stifle-root immunity would most likely adversely affect casters more than it would a Brigand, which is precisely why people correctly said you're advocating a Mage nerf. Was that your point, maybe? & no, when I solo my Wizzie, I don't snare the mob after I root it; I nuke twice, re-Root, wash-rinse-repeat. My snare spell is something I use solely for the damage it does -- precisely as Noaani said. __________________

09-12-2008, 04:57 PM	#36
jaguarjp Loremaster Join Date: Jun 2008 Posts: 207	Flaye@Mistmoore wrote: EasternKing wrote: .in my usual travels of solo farming [snippage]if you wanted to remove solo farmers from KC all you needed to do was go the way of Seb : stun stifle root immunitys, then for the most part it would be good bye solo/duo farmers. I'm confused. First, you openly say you solo farm (I assume as a Brigand) in KC. Then, you say that if SOE wanted to remove solo farmers from KC, they should give all those mobs stun-stifle-root immunity. Which is it? You're solo farming KC as a Brigand, but you're complaining that your hit rates suck .... & then saying that SOE should have done something ELSE to get rid of solo farmers??? Seriously, if your goal is to assist SOE in getting rid of solo farmers, then .... I'm sorry, I'm not seeing your point. I note that stun-stifle-root immunity would most likely adversely affect casters more than it would a Brigand, which is precisely why people correctly said you're advocating a Mage nerf. Was that your point, maybe? & no, when I solo my Wizzie, I don't snare the mob after I root it; I nuke twice, re-Root, wash-rinse-repeat. My snare spell is something I use solely for the damage it does -- precisely as Noaani said. Actually, a Brigand needs to have Stun and Root to be able to count on the big back attacks that make up a high percentage of their soloing damage. Think about it: if you're a soloing Brigand, you have aggro. That means the mob is facing you. How to get to the back to stab it? Either stun & jump around, or Root with their one CA that Roots & prevents direction change, and then stab away. Even when snare kiting, a Brigand can rush in for some back attacks, and then dance back out of melee range before taking much damage. So in the dungeon soloing context, a Brigand would be just as much sunk if they added the Stun-Stifle-Root immunity. I think the posters who pointed out the OP's remark about wondering if Mage resist rates were also increased to accompany the perceived increase in the rate of CA misses, were on the right track. ; ) __________________ "...We will not have this thread on the forums..." ~Kiara, 07/27/2009 20:59:52

09-12-2008, 04:33 PM	#34
woolf2k Loremaster Join Date: Nov 2004 Posts: 845	as far as I'm concerned...you shouldn't be soloing ANY heroics unless they're gray... so "BRING IT DOWN, BRING IT ALL DOWN!"SOE POWER!

09-12-2008, 05:02 PM	#37
Noaani Loremaster Join Date: Mar 2005 Posts: 6,077	EasternKing wrote: so you dont use flames of velious? and keep it on the mob all the time as much as possible? With a 24 second recast, and a 4 second duration, whats the point? As i said, it is used for its damage, not its snare. It is essentially a 6k DD, the 4th largest we have that we can cast from range. __________________ The superior man knows what is right. The inferior man knows what will sell. Confucius

09-12-2008, 05:06 PM	#38
EasternKing Loremaster Join Date: Mar 2005 Posts: 1,023	Flaye@Mistmoore wrote: EasternKing wrote: .in my usual travels of solo farming [snippage]if you wanted to remove solo farmers from KC all you needed to do was go the way of Seb : stun stifle root immunitys, then for the most part it would be good bye solo/duo farmers. I'm confused. First, you openly say you solo farm (I assume as a Brigand) in KC. Then, you say that if SOE wanted to remove solo farmers from KC, they should give all those mobs stun-stifle-root immunity. Which is it? You're solo farming KC as a Brigand, but you're complaining that your hit rates suck .... & then saying that SOE should have done something ELSE to get rid of solo farmers??? Seriously, if your goal is to assist SOE in getting rid of solo farmers, then .... I'm sorry, I'm not seeing your point. I note that stun-stifle-root immunity would most likely adversely affect casters more than it would a Brigand, which is precisely why people correctly said you're advocating a Mage nerf. Was that your point, maybe? & no, when I solo my Wizzie, I don't snare the mob after I root it; I nuke twice, re-Root, wash-rinse-repeat. My snare spell is something I use solely for the damage it does -- precisely as Noaani said. as someone already said, brigands utilize stuns and roots to solo, so the change would be just as bad for me as it would for mages.fair enough on the flames of velious thing. must just be something i see wizzys on my server using a fair bit then. damage or not it still helps the mob not reach you to get it rooted again. but im done arguing pointless semantics about which spells a wiz uses for what part of its effect.still no one here addressed the main part of my post, i shouldnt be shocked by it really, after all this is the offical forums.last time trying it : why are green con heroic mobs in the weakest dungeon in RoK harder to hit than mobs of higher levels in other zones, and why are they harder to hit than epic mobs?and to the person im quoting, no i dont belive they should be trying to eliminate solo farming from the game, but if the changes have been made to cut down on solo farming in kc, they could have done it a much better way, and not broken there own con and tiering system to do it. hope that clears that confusion up for you.

09-12-2008, 05:08 PM	#39
EasternKing Loremaster Join Date: Mar 2005 Posts: 1,023	Jaine@Nagafen wrote: as far as I'm concerned...you shouldn't be soloing ANY heroics unless they're gray... so "BRING IT DOWN, BRING IT ALL DOWN!"SOE POWER! yeah cos people havent been soloing heroic mobs in eq2 since the game launched, do you actually have anything of worth to contribute to the topic at hand ? or just going to keep spewing out flame bait?

09-12-2008, 05:14 PM	#40
liveja General Join Date: Sep 2005 Location: Foster's Home For Imaginary Friends Posts: 4,793	EasternKing wrote: but if the changes have been made to cut down on solo farming in kc Can we see some actual, irrefutable proof that changes were made, before we speculate as to how they could have been done better? But OK, I understand the rest of your point, I suppose. It still came across to me as something you wanted to see changing for the detriment of others, & not yourself. I didn't know Brigands had a Root, other than WTP. __________________

09-12-2008, 05:18 PM	#41
liveja General Join Date: Sep 2005 Location: Foster's Home For Imaginary Friends Posts: 4,793	jaguarjp wrote: if you're a soloing Brigand, you have aggro. That means the mob is facing you. How to get to the back to stab it? Either stun & jump around, or Root with their one CA that Roots & prevents direction change. I'm a Swashy who solos a lot. I have 2 methods of getting back around a mob's rear: Cheap Shot, & Walk The Plank. WTP spins & roots the mob; it lasts about 2 seconds, at most. All Scouts have Cheap Shot; all Rogues have the ability to get WTP. I'm unaware of any other Root that Brigands may have; do they have one, besides Walk The Plank? If so ... must be nice! __________________

09-12-2008, 05:18 PM	#42
Kiara Community Relations Join Date: Jul 2008 Posts: 4,359	Wow... So here we are, and we've already been asked to be polite in the discussion...But yet people are calling others liars and generally being a little nasty.Let's see if we can make this a little more clear then.Stop flaming each other, stop calling each other names.Discuss the subject all you like, but stop the personal attacks.Please and thank you.

09-12-2008, 05:22 PM	#43
jaguarjp Loremaster Join Date: Jun 2008 Posts: 207	Flaye@Mistmoore wrote: jaguarjp wrote: if you're a soloing Brigand, you have aggro. That means the mob is facing you. How to get to the back to stab it? Either stun & jump around, or Root with their one CA that Roots & prevents direction change. I'm a Swashy who solos a lot. I have 2 methods of getting back around a mob's rear: Cheap Shot, & Walk The Plank. WTP spins & roots the mob; it lasts about 2 seconds, at most. All Scouts have Cheap Shot; all Rogues have the ability to get WTP. I'm unaware of any other Root that Brigands may have; do they have one, besides Walk The Plank? If so ... must be nice! They sure do! That's why my 60 Swash is now just my broker mule. Brigands get a 6 second root that prevents direction change. On a 1 min recast. So a Brigand can use Cheap Shot, their 6-second root/ no direction change, their 4 second stun, WTP.... Good times __________________ "...We will not have this thread on the forums..." ~Kiara, 07/27/2009 20:59:52

09-12-2008, 05:28 PM	#44
liveja General Join Date: Sep 2005 Location: Foster's Home For Imaginary Friends Posts: 4,793	jaguarjp wrote: So a Brigand can use Cheap Shot, their 6-second root/ no direction change, their 4 second stun, WTP.... Good times Good times, indeed. Thanx for the correction. But, I'll keep my beloved Swashy. __________________

09-12-2008, 05:57 PM	#45
Noaani Loremaster Join Date: Mar 2005 Posts: 6,077	Flaye@Mistmoore wrote: EasternKing wrote: but if the changes have been made to cut down on solo farming in kc Can we see some actual, irrefutable proof that changes were made, before we speculate as to how they could have been done better I've actually been farming KC names on a brawler for the past 2 hours, between posting in this thread and others, there has been no change that I can see. I find the whole thing amusing tbh. __________________ The superior man knows what is right. The inferior man knows what will sell. Confucius

09-12-2008, 06:59 PM	#46
EasternKing Loremaster Join Date: Mar 2005 Posts: 1,023	Noaani wrote: Flaye@Mistmoore wrote: EasternKing wrote: but if the changes have been made to cut down on solo farming in kc Can we see some actual, irrefutable proof that changes were made, before we speculate as to how they could have been done better I've actually been farming KC names on a brawler for the past 2 hours, between posting in this thread and others, there has been no change that I can see. I find the whole thing amusing tbh. try on your brig please. thats where im having issues, my main ca's are missing a lot more than they ever have, and im not the only brgand who has noticed this change.i can load up my ACT from before last gu and after it and compile a factual post if i really need to, fact of the matter is im seeing hit rates of 0%-50% on cas that have +90% hit bonus.its great your not seeing anything diff on a brawler, i mean you fight it from the front anyway and always have the full effect of a mobs Defense to deal with, a diff ball game entirely than a Brigand.

09-12-2008, 07:13 PM	#47
Noaani Loremaster Join Date: Mar 2005 Posts: 6,077	EasternKing wrote: try on your brig please. thats where im having issues, my main ca's are missing a lot more than they ever have, and im not the only brgand who has noticed this change.i can load up my ACT from before last gu and after it and compile a factual post if i really need to, fact of the matter is im seeing hit rates of 0%-50% on cas that have +90% hit bonus.its great your not seeing anything diff on a brawler, i mean you fight it from the front anyway and always have the full effect of a mobs Defense to deal with, a diff ball game entirely than a Brigand. 0% hit rate? Why do I not believe that? Post a continuous sample of 10 encounters, and show me a combat art that was used in each of those encounters that has a 0% hit rate, hell, I have a hard time even believing a 50% hit rate on anything from a brigand. If what you are saying is actually true (I am putting it down to a bad run on the RNG), then it is not an issue with the mobs in KC, but rather an issue with brigands, or with your specific character. I suggest getting hard facts to post before making any further posts, and also start any similar threads in the future with hard facts. __________________ The superior man knows what is right. The inferior man knows what will sell. Confucius

09-12-2008, 08:30 PM	#48
Soluss2 Loremaster Join Date: Mar 2007 Posts: 196	EasternKing wrote: Noaani wrote: Davngr1 wrote: wiz and conj do have snares and do use them. We use the spells with snares on them, but not for the snare component. I mage that tries to snare a mob is a mage that needs to be peeled off the floor. please stop lying, every mage i know makes sure they have a snare on the mob in case there root breaks, thus allowing them much much more time to get it re rooted. or youre going to tell me that mages on your server cannot comprehend how a mob being snared will keep them alive when a root breaks? i mean really, you rock man. keep it up. Please stop posting like you know what you are talking about. There is no casted backup snare. We have a snare that does damage. The snare portion of that damage lasts for 4 seconds and is on a fairly long cooldown. When a root breaks it applies a snare to the mob. It does not always apply the snare to the mob though. It has already been explained to you about our snares. 1 Resisted root on a heroic mob is a dead wizard. You might get lucky and have time to cast your other root but not likely. I have roots resisted 5 times in a row on a normal even con mob......quite often.

09-12-2008, 08:39 PM	#49
Svann Loremaster Join Date: Apr 2005 Posts: 331	Soluss2 wrote: EasternKing wrote: Noaani wrote: Davngr1 wrote: wiz and conj do have snares and do use them. We use the spells with snares on them, but not for the snare component. I mage that tries to snare a mob is a mage that needs to be peeled off the floor. please stop lying, every mage i know makes sure they have a snare on the mob in case there root breaks, thus allowing them much much more time to get it re rooted. or youre going to tell me that mages on your server cannot comprehend how a mob being snared will keep them alive when a root breaks? i mean really, you rock man. keep it up. Please stop posting like you know what you are talking about. There is no casted backup snare. We have a snare that does damage. The snare portion of that damage lasts for 4 seconds and is on a fairly long cooldown. When a root breaks it applies a snare to the mob. It does not always apply the snare to the mob though. It has already been explained to you about our snares. 1 Resisted root on a heroic mob is a dead wizard. You might get lucky and have time to cast your other root but not likely. I have roots resisted 5 times in a row on a normal even con mob......quite often. Huh? Wizards have 2 roots. A single target and a encounter root. They stack. When one breaks you stop nuking till you can reapply the one that broke.

09-12-2008, 10:29 PM	#50
LygerT Loremaster Join Date: Jun 2006 Location: las vegas, NV Posts: 2,144	i was curious so i went in to check it out. for me, nothing is any different than it was the past few weeks i went into the zone solo, the heroics are no harder to hit than they were before, granted i am a zerker and not a brigand. oops, i probably shouldn't have said my class, now maybe i'll log in one day and find out that the little green men visited the zone and now i can't kill anything anymore... sounds fishy to me, and i think the OP just had a bad luck run streak with the RNG, it's happened to me before too where a mob gets a string of hits and owns me, several times in a row.

09-12-2008, 10:35 PM	#51
Pitt Hammerfi General Join Date: Nov 2004 Location: Melbourne Posts: 710	OH BOOO HOOOO SK's in T7 used to be able to solo Yellow triple ups.. Now we can't even solo around Karnors (the supposedly easiest group zone to try solo) When i go in to Karnors i see mages and many other classes soloing with ease, and it just makes me angry remembering back to the days when SK's could solo at least some heroic content. I feel cheated, The mobs in karnors (and all T8 heroics) simply hit too hard for our tiny lifetaps to keep up with the damage now. Bring back our 3% heal AA, and add a new option to increase it to 5% please __________________ www.advancedws.com.au

09-13-2008, 03:57 AM	#52
Giral General Join Date: Dec 2004 Posts: 894	Pitt Hammerfist wrote: OH BOOO HOOOO SK's in T7 used to be able to solo Yellow triple ups.. Now we can't even solo around Karnors (the supposedly easiest group zone to try solo) When i go in to Karnors i see mages and many other classes soloing with ease, and it just makes me angry remembering back to the days when SK's could solo at least some heroic content. I feel cheated, The mobs in karnors (and all T8 heroics) simply hit too hard for our tiny lifetaps to keep up with the damage now. Bring back our 3% heal AA, and add a new option to increase it to 5% please i feel yah there brother __________________ who's more of a Fool, the fool or the fool who follows the fool. . . Account Terminated as of 12-27-08, RMT=Evil

09-13-2008, 07:25 AM	#53
Davngr1 Loremaster Join Date: Nov 2005 Posts: 2,179	Soluss2 wrote: 1 Resisted root on a heroic mob is a dead wizard. You might get lucky and have time to cast your other root but not likely. I have roots resisted 5 times in a row on a normal even con mob......quite often. when the mob resist root use your lvl 52 snare. works like charm if you have room to kite Pitt Hammerfist wrote: OH BOOO HOOOO SK's in T7 used to be able to solo Yellow triple ups.. Now we can't even solo around Karnors (the supposedly easiest group zone to try solo) When i go in to Karnors i see mages and many other classes soloing with ease, and it just makes me angry remembering back to the days when SK's could solo at least some heroic content. I feel cheated, The mobs in karnors (and all T8 heroics) simply hit too hard for our tiny lifetaps to keep up with the damage now. Bring back our 3% heal AA, and add a new option to increase it to 5% please and who can you blame for this? PvP i think it's time re work AA so there is seperate PvP and PvE. __________________

09-13-2008, 08:04 AM	#54
Noaani Loremaster Join Date: Mar 2005 Posts: 6,077	Davngr1 wrote: when the mob resist root use your lvl 52 snare. works like charm if you have room to kite If your killing anything worth the effort, you are dead before you are in range for Numbing Cold to work. __________________ The superior man knows what is right. The inferior man knows what will sell. Confucius

09-13-2008, 09:49 AM	#55
EasternKing Loremaster Join Date: Mar 2005 Posts: 1,023	ok this is from today in kc, first is rainbrittle, killed me then i killed him merged fight. 2nd parse posted is vorador, killed me twice and then i killed it, highlighted the relevant area's on each picture.i have tons of stuff like this since last gu got patched in, last picture Comp thrust 6 attacks 3 hits, thats my primary def debuff, it has a 90% bonus to hit at m1, it miss's less on epic mobs.now if no one else, other than the few brigs i speak to have experianced this, then i dunno what to think, all i know is my ca's never ever used to miss the same mobs in KC anything like they do now after the last gu.

09-13-2008, 10:22 AM	#56
Lenefir Loremaster Join Date: Mar 2005 Posts: 63	You can't be serious...?!You can't seriously come here and claim melee/scout/brigand/you are nerfed because you hit 1 of 3 hits (33% hit chance), or that you hit 10 of 12 hits (83% hit chance). If you think that is good enough to actually get a dev to look into things then I too would like to show parses of my warlock where I have have 5 of 6 spells resisted in a row (not on the starting root, for those actually wondering how I managed to live through it)!If you really are serious, I think you need to learn some basic statistics before yelling like the world is ending, not to mention trying to drag the whole mage class down with you. Because in the event that something related to your character actually was nerfed somewhere, backing up your cries with fights for a total of 2 minute combat is not going to show anything useful. Oh, yes, except despite your major nerfage you still managed to do 4.3k dps. Want some cheese from my ratonga to comfort you?

09-13-2008, 10:31 AM	#57
EasternKing Loremaster Join Date: Mar 2005 Posts: 1,023	Laniala@Crushbone wrote: You can't be serious...?!You can't seriously come here and claim melee/scout/brigand/you are nerfed because you hit 1 of 3 hits (33% hit chance), or that you hit 10 of 12 hits (83% hit chance). If you think that is good enough to actially get a dev to look into things then I too would like to show parses of my warlock where I have have 5 of 6 spells resisted in a row (not on the starting root, for those actually wondering how I managed to live through it)!If you really are serious, I think you need to learn some basic statistics before yelling like the world is ending, not to mention trying to drag the whole mage class down with you. Because in the event that something related to your character actually was nerfed somewhere, backing up your cries with fights for a total of 2 minute combat is not going to show anything useful. Oh, yes, except despite your major nerfage you still managed to do 4.3k dps. Want some cheese from my ratonga to comfort you? grats on reading the thread. i hit more accuratly on orange con epics than i do solo in KC, something had been changed, a primary def debuff with +90% to hit should not be missing anywhere near below 5% on a green con heroic, atm that ca is 0-50% hit rate for me, if you cannot see thats wrong let me help you.as i said i have hours and hours worth of combat logs showing this stuff in KC, it does not need spamming in this thread, if the dev responsible wants to see it i can pm it him nps at allbut to try help you understand some, im a brigand pretty much im 2nd person after the first person engages a mob to hit it, my very first CA is Comp Thrust, now this is a parse from vpeak wings 1+2+3 apart from mobs after silver wing.look very very carefully at COMP thrust and its Attacks / HITS and HIT% yes thats right, the ca i use first on orange con epic mobs, and im the very first person to land any attack on a mob after its been pulled has a 98% hit rate, it missed 2 times in over an hour of fighting T4 raid contenti goto KC and it miss's nearly every single time i use it first on GREEN CON HEROIC MOBS.can you grasp that something is very wrong yet.

09-13-2008, 10:39 AM	#58
Vumael Loremaster Join Date: Dec 2004 Posts: 135	Welcome to EQ buddy. They've been doing Ninja nerfs almost since release of EQ1. I used to solo Chelsith with ease.... Suddenly a few months ago the names started nuking for between 5-8kish.... *NEVER MENTIONED IN PATCH NOTES* I can still solo Chelsith, but now it's marginally harder

09-13-2008, 10:43 AM	#59
EasternKing Loremaster Join Date: Mar 2005 Posts: 1,023	Vumael wrote: Welcome to EQ buddy. They've been doing Ninja nerfs almost since release of EQ1. I used to solo Chelsith with ease.... Suddenly a few months ago the names started nuking for between 5-8kish.... *NEVER MENTIONED IN PATCH NOTES* I can still solo Chelsith, but now it's marginally harder yeah me to, and yes it was never mentioned in notes anywhere that they gave all the yha-lei named a 10sec recast nuke aqua blast, it just makes life harder sure, but like you i still solo them.its just getting old fast, if they dont want people solo'ing heroic mobs they need to make more heroic content thats challenging for people, period.

09-13-2008, 10:47 AM	#60
Vumael Loremaster Join Date: Dec 2004 Posts: 135	Yeah, funny thing is I also noticed other "Ninja" changes that they were playing around with Chelsith following that. Suspicious leashing issues and mobs becoming non-kos temporarily... My pets aquiring a target at a slightly unusual delay regularly... and a few other things, but these have since reverted back to normal functionality. I agree entirely though, heroic content should be more challenging.