The Guild Hall Feedback Thread

[troodon]

Ashlian@Mistmoore wrote:

And if you think that "virtually everyone" who has a guild can throw down 1000 plat and the millions of status plus the 100's more plat for any decent listing of amenities along with the millions of more status for those, then you have really, really not been reading the rest of the thread.

You're misreading what I said, intentionally or unintentionally I know not.  I claimed that some people in this thread were asking for a system where "virtually everyone" can afford guild halls that require "little or no effort to maintain."  I did not claim that "virtually everyone who has a guild can throw down 1000 plat".  Next time, if you're going accuse someone of not reading a thread, you might want to make sure you've actually read their post properly before you go ahead and do it.

And I'd like to personally thank Gemblade who, less than an hour ago, provided a perfect example of what I'm talking about.  He thinks that guild halls should be affordable by 'lowbies'.  Ashlian, if something is affordable by lowbies, does it require a good deal of effort for a level 80?  No.  In fact, it requires "little to no effort" for a level 80.  Perhaps my statement was hyperbolic, I have no idea whether or not "virtually everyone" is in a guild with an active level 80 player, but I argue that it was still fairly accurate.  Some people here want guild halls which require "little or no effort [for level 80s] to [obtain] or maintain".

[troodon]

Klumpp@Antonia Bayle wrote:

They simply resent not being able to afford the upkeep on costs that are clearly geared toward raiders/grinders.

This is flat-out untrue.  50g and 50k status per week is not geared towards raiders/grinders.  I can obtain twice those values in an hour, solo.  8 writs in Jarsath Wastes.  From the junk loot you get doing them (and the rare harvest you'll probably get in an hour's worth of shiny collecting) you'll make more than a plat.  I did it this morning.

It gets more complicated when you throw in amenities, of course, but those are meant to be extra things you have to work extra hard for if you want to have them - and their upkeep still isn't high enough that it can be considered "geared toward raiders/grinders".  At least not for the number you can fit into a T1 hall.

Bratface, if someone in your guild isn't willing to devote an hour of their week to obtaining what is required to keep their guild hall active then, I'm sorry, they aren't willing to lift a finger for it.  That's not flaming, that's stating a fact.

Edit to add: Translocator beacon + bank + broker adds 1pp and 60k status to the weekly cost.  So a guild hall with what I'd call the bare essentials would be an hour and a half a week for me to maintain.

[Bratface]

troodon wrote:

Bratface wrote:

Very few, and most of those don't even make sense since people like Kendricke expound about doing things that give the guild status, when its personal status that matters, guild status is ONLY for leveling a guild, you can't spend it. Sure you get it together but it shows how much they are grasping at straws to agrue against a more reasonable pricing stucture.

It's impossible to gain guild status without gaining personal status... x10 as much guild status to be exact.  If Kendricke is giving tips for gaining guild status, he's giving tips for gaining personal status.

Personally I am a former raider and I don't think raiding is all that hard, so those who raid and think they deserve more or better because they raid are a joke to me, I know better. The should take away the status rewards from all raiding aspects of the game, especially since the uber gear is what the raiders say they are entitled to for raiding....

I wouldn't care, personally, if they removed sp from raid mobs.  My guild ground writs up to level 80 and we'd grind writs to a T3 guild hall if we needed to. 

And, as a fellow former raider, raiders do work harder than casual players.  Having to help maintain a strong raidforce, helping to recruit valuable players, having to show up at certain times to do raids that don't benefit you in any way, having to help guildies camp stupid mobs so they can get an idiotic treasured or legendary item that, for some reason, is better for them than most fabled drops.... yeah, that's a little bit harder than doing what I currently do - logging in whenever I want, for however long I want, and doing whatever I want. 

This is my sentiment every time I see anyone, including Rothgar, compare guild halls to mythicals.When you have to pay upkeep on mythicals, or you have to go kill the same mob every week, in order to keep it then you can compare the them, but until then it's apples and oranges.

Firstly, upkeep is payed on mythicals every single time a person dies.  They have to pay the same whether they die fighting a raid mob or if they fall off a cliff in SS.  Secondly, raiding guilds have to pay every single sent, every single sp the same for guild halls as non-raiding guilds - it seems strange that you think the greatest argument against a high cost for guild halls is to require some sort of additional fine for playing with T3 raid equipment.  The two things have nothing in common.

First you misinterpreted my statement which said exactly what you said in response, doing things that earn guild status earn personal status so adding it into the mix is stupid because it doesn't do anything relevant and its the personal status that counts because that is all you can spend, so mentioning the huge amounts of guild status has NO meaning in this discussion.Pompous people spit out such drivel purely to hear themelves babble about something, it makes them feel good for some reason /shrugDon't even compare hard work with raiding, its a joke and one of the biggest flat out lies in this game, raiding is work for a select few who have to think and work, the rest of the people just do what they are told to do and show up when they are told to be somewhere, not hard to do but yet they reward you for showing up and pushing buttons. Raiding is hard for a few people, much like organizing a kegger party, it takes work to throw one but no work to show up and grab a cup and get in line at the tap. Which is the major reason why I refuse to raid, I won't let people ride my coattails anymore. Too much work getting people to do their jobs, easy as they are.When mythicals or any gear has a maintenance on it that requires upkeep just for having it then you can compare them, but anyone can get a mythical and not use it or get it damaged and it will never cost them a thing ever again, ever.

[zhiDarkivel]

troodon wrote:

Klumpp@Antonia Bayle wrote:

They simply resent not being able to afford the upkeep on costs that are clearly geared toward raiders/grinders.

This is flat-out untrue.  50g and 50k status per week is not geared towards raiders/grinders.  I can obtain twice those values in an hour, solo.  8 writs in Jarsath Wastes.  From the junk loot you get doing them (and the rare harvest you'll probably get in an hour's worth of shiny collecting) you'll make more than a plat.  I did it this morning.

It gets more complicated when you throw in amenities, of course, but those are meant to be extra things you have to work extra hard for if you want to have them - and their upkeep still isn't high enough that it can be considered "geared toward raiders/grinders".  At least not for the number you can fit into a T1 hall.

Bratface, if someone in your guild isn't willing to devote an hour of their week to obtaining what is required to keep their guild hall active then, I'm sorry, they aren't willing to lift a finger for it.  That's not flaming, that's stating a fact.

You are correct.  I don't want to lift a finger to MAINTAIN it.  For reasons that have been stated over and over again in this thread and the previous one.

[Odium]

I had an idea (and maybe someone else had it first) about the "Gigglegibber Goblin Gambling Game" Amenity

What if the guild could set the winning jackpot? What if it worked like this......

• The jackpot would come out of guild funds
• The jackpot would be set by the guild leader
• The jackpot amount would be held in reserve to ensure the guild can actually pay a winner
• All payments into the game by guild members / visitors are split like this:
  • 70% of the payment goes to the guild Escrow account
  • 30% of the payment goes to wherever the payment goes with regular Goblin Gambling ….(Rothgars account?)
• Members / Visitors to the hall can pay with coin, status points or both (payment in coin and or status goes to guild escrow as above)

Might be a good way to help keep escrow accounts afloat and make the amenity more attractive overall.

[Valirmon]

troodon wrote:

Klumpp@Antonia Bayle wrote:

They simply resent not being able to afford the upkeep on costs that are clearly geared toward raiders/grinders.

This is flat-out untrue.  50g and 50k status per week is not geared towards raiders/grinders.  I can obtain twice those values in an hour, solo.  8 writs in Jarsath Wastes.  From the junk loot you get doing them (and the rare harvest you'll probably get in an hour's worth of shiny collecting) you'll make more than a plat.  I did it this morning.

It gets more complicated when you throw in amenities, of course, but those are meant to be extra things you have to work extra hard for if you want to have them - and their upkeep still isn't high enough that it can be considered "geared toward raiders/grinders".  At least not for the number you can fit into a T1 hall.

Bratface, if someone in your guild isn't willing to devote an hour of their week to obtaining what is required to keep their guild hall active then, I'm sorry, they aren't willing to lift a finger for it.  That's not flaming, that's stating a fact.

Edit to add: Translocator beacon + bank + broker adds 1pp and 60k status to the weekly cost.  So a guild hall with what I'd call the bare essentials would be an hour and a half a week for me to maintain.

Of course T1 halls aren't priced for current raides/grinders.  If they had a lvl 30 guild and were all lvl 50 it would be.

15pp and 600k status a week in DISPOSABLE income is achievable long term only for the elite and grind-happy.  Of course we can do it, but it won't be fun, and we won't be motivated to do it for long just to keep the things we already dropped exorbitant amounts of plat and status for already.  This is doable for those who are already generating huge amounts of plat and status doing what they already enjoy (raiders/grinders).

[freel]

In my humble opinion, the amenities are what make a guild hall worth having. The hall itself is just a fancy residence for guildies to hang out. The amenities are the tools which we can use to make the game experience better. So, to say that they should not be affordable is ... well, silly.Also, I would ask that we look at things from the perspective of a guild just starting out and working its way to affording a Tier 1 hall plus amenities. I think it will be very difficult for them to continue to pay for that hall, level their guild, pay for equipment upgrades, level their tradeskillers, i.e., provide for their personal needs, and still raise money to be able to afford a Tier 2 hall when they are 50. Then they are asked to continue the struggle to perhaps someday afford a Tier 3 hall when they turn 80.Sounds like an awful lot of work and sacrifice to me.

[Bratface]

Klumpp@Antonia Bayle wrote:

The arguments for "small" guilds vs. "large" guilds and who deserves what are moot.

No doubt about it, ALL guilds (at least that I've talked to) feel entitled to the guild halls that they gain access to at the requisite level.  Do they want it for free, or without lifting a finger, as some of the more obtuse posters have condescended?  Of course not.  They simply resent not being able to afford the upkeep on costs that are clearly geared toward raiders/grinders.

We know it's possible.  All the seconds per writ breakdowns don't mean anything.  We know they're possible.  What concerns us is knowing the human nature of the guilds we've run for years, and forecasting (as we've done for all of those years) that people simply will not be motivated to keep pushing for what they already have.  We've seen it already, over and over and over.  How many times do the devs need to repeat their mistakes?  Guild status decay - bad idea.  Putting guild-wide development on the shoulders of a few (patrons) - bad idea.  Outrageous pricing based on "future markets" or "content to come" (pre-decreased housing costs) - bad idea.  And we're revisiting everything here with guild halls?

Learn your lessons and apply them.  Those of us who experienced guild status decay know its demoralizing effects.  Those of us who were around when the 5 room houses were outrageous remember people laughing about the devs' optimism.  Those of us who had to decide who were going to be the guild's patrons remember how frustrating and exhausting it became (rather quickly).

Remember that this is supposed to be fun.  And please remember your own mantra of giving us a goal to strive for, and not something to keep working to keep.

Here is what I don't understand, or maybe I do but it's an ugly thought...People post here because they have a problem with the pricing of guild halls for small and medium guilds, in an effort to have soem understanding by the devs before they make final decisions.So those of us who see some of it as a problem post our concerns and then people start posting about how we shouldn't even have a guild halls yada yada yada....The only reason they are posting is to try to keep guild halls out fo the small and medium guilds hands, no other reason.The gain nothing by posting here, they only come here to try to keep a new item from being enjoyed by anyone that doesn't play the way they do.I think it stinks that they come here with more of the "we're bigger/better than you so you shouldn't have what we can have".If everyone had a guild hall it would take nothing away from them other than their feelings of being better than others.They are just happy that people are goign to struggle or do without a guild hall, that way they can feel superior, there is no other reason to post here against the small and medium guilds and non-raiders. They are not providing feedback about how it will affect them, they are only providing their views on how it should affect us and frankly I don't care what think we should or should not have and the dev's shouldn't either.

[troodon]

Bratface wrote:

First you misinterpreted my statement which said exactly what you said in response, doing things that earn guild status earn personal status so adding it into the mix is stupid because it doesn't do anything relevant and its the personal status that counts because that is all you can spend, so mentioning the huge amounts of guild status has NO meaning in this discussion.

I apologize if I misinterpreted what you said.  You'll have to forgive me for not believing your claim, since it would be a silly mistake on Kindricke's part to add guild status in with personal status when computing his figures, and since a 10% boost to the end total would hardly be worth an attempt at deliberate deception.

Don't even compare hard work with raiding, its a joke and one of the biggest flat out lies in this game, raiding is work for a select few who have to think and work, the rest of the people just do what they are told to do and show up when they are told to be somewhere, not hard to do but yet they reward you for showing up and pushing buttons. Raiding is hard for a few people, much like organizing a kegger party, it takes work to throw one but no work to show up and grab a cup and get in line at the tap.

It really doesn't matter to me whether or not you agree that being a reliable member in a raiding guild is costlier and requires more effort than logging in whenever you want and doing whatever you want.  The reason I was disagreeing with you was because you were using the alleged ease of raiding as an argument for removing SP from raid mobs.  Removing SP from raid mobs would limit SP to writs, guild raids, and heritage quests.  This seems an odd request from someone on the side that keeps asking "will this add fun to the game?"  There's a lot of raids I wasn't very fond of, but most of them sure beat killing 12 cactuses in JW.

When mythicals or any gear has a maintenance on it that requires upkeep just for having it then you can compare them, but anyone can get a mythical and not use it or get it damaged and it will never cost them a thing ever again, ever.

Umm, but you are using the guild hall.  If you weren't using it, there'd be no point in having it.  Would you rather amenities charge you per use, and guild halls per login, rather than a weekly upkeep?

You are correct.  I don't want to lift a finger to MAINTAIN it. You are correct. 

Uh, you just accused a fellow poster of flaming for saying "the outright refusal by some to lift a finger to maintain a guild hall".  Are you going to be intellectually honest and retract one of these statements?  "/

Klumpp@Antonia Bayle wrote:

Of course T1 halls aren't priced for current raides/grinders.  If they had a lvl 30 guild and were all lvl 50 it would be.

15pp and 600k status a week in DISPOSABLE income is achievable long term only for the elite and grind-happy.  Of course we can do it, but it won't be fun, and we won't be motivated to do it for long just to keep the things we already dropped exorbitant amounts of plat and status for already.  This is doable for those who are already generating huge amounts of plat and status doing what they already enjoy (raiders/grinders).

You're talking about a fairly utilitarian T3 guild hall here, right?  Why don't you just satisfy your self with something more modest that you can maintain with sufficient levels of guild motivation? 

[Hirofortis]

You know it is pretty funny to read how many are complaining about hte costs.  Yes, the guild castels are expensive, but heck, if you want something so extravegant then be willing to put out the effort to keep it up.  If your not willing to put forth the effort, get something smaller.  You can still get the amenities on a smaller place and you can still get all 30 of them even in the small 5 room guild house.  You do not need a castle if your not willing to put the effort into it to keep it up.  Sorry, but thats the way it is.  The prices are not that bad, especially since SOE saw fit to make even junk instance named give status.  So unless you just logging in to sit around and do nothing, you can very easily get the status you need.  As far as the money is concerned, if your guild is not willing to put in some miniaml effort to keep up a castle, then get something they are willing to commit to, and if they are not willing to commit to a guild hall then why the heck are you thinking of getting one.  I guess you complain about the cost of your house each week to since it costs money as well.  Or maybe your just a vagabond and never go to your house.  Guild Halls, like houses are extras that have been put in to make your life a bit easier, and if you don't think it will make your life easier due to the minimal costs to keep them, then don't get one.

[freel]

You can't get all 30 amenities if you have a Tier 1 or Tier 2 hall. Only Tier 3 halls are eligible to have 30.I want to make it clear, in case the devs even see my posts among all the bickering back and forth about who should and should not have a guild hall and flames from those who don't have a problem with the affordability ... the proposed lowered prices for the purchase of the halls are fair. Our concern is with the cost and upkeep for the amenities. We don't see a Tier 3 hall in our future. We'd like a Tier 2, which we should be able to afford in six months or so, depending on the costs of what we consider the basic amenities - broker, banker, transportation methods.Again, without the amenities, there is no reason to have a hall except prestige and we don't need that. If we did we wouldn't have decided to forgo updating our cloak at level 60 and saving the money for the guild halls (this decision was made almost a year ago). The cost of amenties will be the deal breaker for our small almost level 70 guild. We are anxious to know if there will be proposed newer prices.Again, thanks to the devs for putting up with all the flaming. I hope you can get the jest of what lower level and small and medium-sized guilds are trying to say. I don't envy you your jobs and understand how very frustrated you must feel that we seem ungrateful for the hard work you did to make the halls. I think most everyone appreciates the new content, even though most don't have a clue what you went through to make this possible, it's just we want to be able to use it and enjoy it. Please.

[Valirmon]

troodon wrote:

*snip*

Klumpp@Antonia Bayle wrote:

Of course T1 halls aren't priced for current raides/grinders.  If they had a lvl 30 guild and were all lvl 50 it would be.

15pp and 600k status a week in DISPOSABLE income is achievable long term only for the elite and grind-happy.  Of course we can do it, but it won't be fun, and we won't be motivated to do it for long just to keep the things we already dropped exorbitant amounts of plat and status for already.  This is doable for those who are already generating huge amounts of plat and status doing what they already enjoy (raiders/grinders).

You're talking about a fairly utilitarian T3 guild hall here, right?  Why don't you just satisfy your self with something more modest that you can maintain with sufficient levels of guild motivation? 

You completely miss the point.  Should my nearly 4 year old, 100+ unique account, level 77 guild have to settle for a T1 or T2 hall because we don't raid or grind?  We (and nearly all those who are trying to give the devs some realistic feedback) resent that it looks like we'll have to.

Everything is scaled to the raider/grinder crowd.  If guild level 30 was the cap, and level 50 for characters, T1 halls would be far out of reach of all but the raiders/grinders.  As it is, thankfully those casual guilds can make up for that with lots of level 80 characters.  Should that be the standard?

[Ojojida]

Freewyn@Crushbone wrote:

You can't get all 30 amenities if you have a Tier 1 or Tier 2 hall. Only Tier 3 halls are eligible to have 30.I want to make it clear, in case the devs even see my posts among all the bickering back and forth about who should and should not have a guild hall and flames from those who don't have a problem with the affordability ... the proposed lowered prices for the purchase of the halls are fair. Our concern is with the cost and upkeep for the amenities. We don't see a Tier 3 hall in our future. We'd like a Tier 2, which we should be able to afford in six months or so, depending on the costs of what we consider the basic amenities - broker, banker, transportation methods.Again, without the amenities, there is no reason to have a hall except prestige and we don't need that. If we did we wouldn't have decided to forgo updating our cloak at level 60 and saving the money for the guild halls (this decision was made almost a year ago). The cost of amenties will be the deal breaker for our small almost level 70 guild. We are anxious to know if there will be proposed newer prices.Again, thanks to the devs for putting up with all the flaming. I hope you can get the jest of what lower level and small and medium-sized guilds are trying to say. I don't envy you your jobs and understand how very frustrated you must feel that we seem ungrateful for the hard work you did to make the halls. I think most everyone appreciates the new content, even though most don't have a clue what you went through to make this possible, it's just we want to be able to use it and enjoy it. Please.

This I can agree with and is along the lines of the concerns me and our other guilds leaders have. We could stomach the cost of a T3 Hall however unless there are some adjustments for upkeep on the Hall and amenities we would not consider a Guild Hall worth the cost. I'm in a small L54 guild and although some very good suggestions have been presented in regards to earning status and plat the cost would still be just too steep in relation to the plat. We simply just don't spend time harvesting. We're either working writs or quests and you just are not going to generate the necessary additional plat to meet the current cost.

[mezagetu]

It's a simple case of have and have nots.

If a player joins eq2 and they learn about guild halls and say thats cool, the're going to go looking for a guild with a hall (the best if possible).  If a player is in a guild already that doesn't have a guild hall and thinks my guilds never going to make it, theres a chance the'll jump ship an join a guild that does have a guild hall.  The more people who move from small guilds to larger guilds the less likely new players are to join the existing small guilds.

This in the end will leave 3 types of guild on the servers those who don't care, larger guilds with flashy guild halls and anoyed small family/friend guilds looking up getting more and more disgruntled with the hardcore/casual divide.

Not to mention the plat farmers who will branch out in to status farming nows there a nice big thing to spend it on. 

I'm all for a high purchase price with status, but in my opinion a high upkeep cost will increase the divide and detract from all the wonderful work the developers have done on the halls.  Another way round it might be to impose an upkeep when you reach so many amenities, an example might be half the guild hall allotted amenity slots, this then increases with each one you add there after. 

This it's all hypothetical, it may not happen just like everyone may agree at the close of this thread.

Just my point of view don't feel you have to change it.

[Nayawk]

Klumpp@Antonia Bayle wrote

You completely miss the point.  Should my nearly 4 year old, 100+ unique account, level 77 guild have to settle for a T1 or T2 hall because we don't raid or grind?  We (and nearly all those who are trying to give the devs some realistic feedback) resent that it looks like we'll have to.

I think the biggest problem is the definition of 'grind' is it is personal and fluid. Forget raiding, no one thinks non raid guild should suddenly become one. But how much grinding is too much and what counts as grind.

Is 30 mins of a persons time a week a grind? Is any obligation of any kind a grind?

For me neither of those things are, but for others they may well be.  The problem for the devs is they have a draw a line somewhere, there has to be a work reward structure in there, there has to be constant ongoing progression or the game becomes static.  On going costs should/can be the mechanic to bring a guild together, make them a unit rather than 100 plus people who just happen to wear matching jackets.

Also in this 100 account 77 guild example I'm not sure the math adds up. Unless every single person has been buying endless city items then that grind you did to get to 77 must have racked up a vast bottomless pit of personal status. And I'm assuming that the long term goal is to get to 80? Thats personal status right there.  

I'm also not really buying into the idea "we are lvl 70 we have earned 70 and we paid our money up front now we should own it outright"  While I'm not all that happy with real world parallels they have been brought up in this thread to support the no upkeep viewpoint, but there is certainly real world examples against it aswell.  Own a home outright = still have to pay rates based on size/location.

[Bratface]

troodon wrote:

Bratface wrote:

First you misinterpreted my statement which said exactly what you said in response, doing things that earn guild status earn personal status so adding it into the mix is stupid because it doesn't do anything relevant and its the personal status that counts because that is all you can spend, so mentioning the huge amounts of guild status has NO meaning in this discussion.

I apologize if I misinterpreted what you said.  You'll have to forgive me for not believing your claim, since it would be a silly mistake on Kindricke's part to add guild status in with personal status when computing his figures, and since a 10% boost to the end total would hardly be worth an attempt at deliberate deception.

Don't even compare hard work with raiding, its a joke and one of the biggest flat out lies in this game, raiding is work for a select few who have to think and work, the rest of the people just do what they are told to do and show up when they are told to be somewhere, not hard to do but yet they reward you for showing up and pushing buttons. Raiding is hard for a few people, much like organizing a kegger party, it takes work to throw one but no work to show up and grab a cup and get in line at the tap.

It really doesn't matter to me whether or not you agree that being a reliable member in a raiding guild is costlier and requires more effort than logging in whenever you want and doing whatever you want.  The reason I was disagreeing with you was because you were using the alleged ease of raiding as an argument for removing SP from raid mobs.  Removing SP from raid mobs would limit SP to writs, guild raids, and heritage quests.  This seems an odd request from someone on the side that keeps asking "will this add fun to the game?"  There's a lot of raids I wasn't very fond of, but most of them sure beat killing 12 cactuses in JW.

I'd prefer killing the cacti personally, but that's neither here nor there. The reason I mentioned cutting status on raid mobs is because there is a perception that the raiders have too much plat and status saved up and SOE wants to relieve them of this plat and status by making guild halls cost so much. I said remove the status as a way to keep the accued status of raiders from being so high that the rest of us have to pay high prices for everything concerning guild halls.

If you would stop taking my words out of context you might understand my points more clearly.

Repeat, I do not care how much status raiders have, I care that their socio-economic status is being use to set prices for non-raiders, if raiders having too much status is the problem then stop giving so much for raids, simple isn't it?

When mythicals or any gear has a maintenance on it that requires upkeep just for having it then you can compare them, but anyone can get a mythical and not use it or get it damaged and it will never cost them a thing ever again, ever.

Umm, but you are using the guild hall.  If you weren't using it, there'd be no point in having it.  Would you rather amenities charge you per use, and guild halls per login, rather than a weekly upkeep?

What about the mailboxes in our houses that we BUY with status and coin? What about the work order clipboards and other things that we BUY and do not pay upkeep on? I sue them often and they dont' cost me a thing, ever. I have said all along that anologies to fabled gear and mythical weapons is BS, guild houses and items that go in them are not the same.

You are correct.  I don't want to lift a finger to MAINTAIN it. You are correct. 

Uh, you just accused a fellow poster of flaming for saying "the outright refusal by some to lift a finger to maintain a guild hall".  Are you going to be intellectually honest and retract one of these statements?  "/

???? Who are you quoting? You attribute it to me but I never said that.

Not only do you quote me out of context you quote someone else or make up something (I don't know) and claim it is me.....

[Renorsuru]

Nayawk wrote:

Klumpp@Antonia Bayle wrote

You completely miss the point.  Should my nearly 4 year old, 100+ unique account, level 77 guild have to settle for a T1 or T2 hall because we don't raid or grind?  We (and nearly all those who are trying to give the devs some realistic feedback) resent that it looks like we'll have to.

I think the biggest problem is the definition of 'grind' is it is personal and fluid. Forget raiding, no one thinks non raid guild should suddenly become one. But how much grinding is too much and what counts as grind.

Is 30 mins of a persons time a week a grind? Is any obligation of any kind a grind?

For me neither of those things are, but for others they may well be.  The problem for the devs is they have a draw a line somewhere, there has to be a work reward structure in there, there has to be constant ongoing progression or the game becomes static.  On going costs should/can be the mechanic to bring a guild together, make them a unit rather than 100 plus people who just happen to wear matching jackets.

Also in this 100 account 77 guild example I'm not sure the math adds up. Unless every single person has been buying endless city items then that grind you did to get to 77 must have racked up a vast bottomless pit of personal status. And I'm assuming that the long term goal is to get to 80? Thats personal status right there.  

I'm also not really buying into the idea "we are lvl 70 we have earned 70 and we paid our money up front now we should own it outright"  While I'm not all that happy with real world parallels they have been brought up in this thread to support the no upkeep viewpoint, but there is certainly real world examples against it aswell.  Own a home outright = still have to pay rates based on size/location.

I perhaps fall in the middle some where i dont mind the idea of a small rent but OMG by the time you add a few specials to even a small hall wow does the price add up. Its abit like buying a house then being charged 5 times the purchace cost each week in rent for your own house.

To those that say then dont get them well a hall with out amenities would just be a large empty expensive box and useless.

To those that say you dont want to lift a finger, i know some of the people asking for the rent to be reduced and they have done an obscene amout of work for thier guilds and would have earned millions of status they are not lazy people they just dont like being ripped off. I probably have a mil status left over after houses and things scattered arround my alts but then i like to go round and pay friends rent because there was nothing left to get with status so its half what it could be and i think the rents are crazy.

[Qandor]

Bratface wrote:

Qandor wrote:

I do not disagree and I too have been a bit puzzled about the outright refusal by some to lift a finger to maintain a guild hall. This is especially true in the light of the fact that if they are not in a level 80 guild they would presumably be doing those tasks to raise their guild level anyway or at least have been up to this point. 

Your final paragraph is pretty much spot on and raising the buy in cost and eliminating the upkeep would in fact impact some guilds adveresly. I was not seriously proposing it as my preferred plan. I was more trying to demonstrate that the whole package may have to be viewed in its entirety. I am uncertain that they would eliminate upkeep and not increase buy in costs. For some it could be a case of be careful what you wish for.

See umm maybe you don't see what you are saying as the flaming that it is so I will give you the benefit of the doubt on it. But I will inform you that your remarks are highly insulting to every person who has posted here about the costs of guild halls for small and medium guilds.No one is refusing to "lift a finger" as you put it. People just don't want to have to spend most of their playtime maintaining the guild hall. The goal should be playing the game for enjoyment, not playing to maintain a shiny.I haven't inherited a guild, I worked hard for every single level we have, no matter how many members were playing or when they quit, we kept going and have gotten to level 41 as of last night. You can look at my amount of status and see how much a regular player has when they are simply leveling their guild through normal playing, like HQ's writs etc. Not with the goal of leveling the guild, but because of how we play, our guild reflects our playing and what we have done, we do not play in order to level the guild, it levels because we play.And that is how we like it, we earned our guild level fair and square, we should be able to enjoy a T1 guild hall along with that, and it should be priced accordingly so that others can do the same without having to sacrifice their playstyles.No one is asking for a freebie, but would it hurt to align prices to the regular player instead of the elitist few who think that everything and everyone should play their way or get out.

I have seen numerous pleas for no upkeep to MAINTAIN a guild hall. I have seen no proposals for less upkeep. So yes, anyone who refuses to accept the concept of some upkeep is unwilling to lift a finger to MAINTAIN a guiid hall. So there, I have said it again.

I think if I see elitist one more time I will barf. Do you folks have any other song to sing? I am in a 9 account guild which is less than one year old. The only thing we raid is the fridge. We are as far from being elite as you can get.

[Megera]

My guild was already running around and scrapping together the plat for the purchase, and trying to count up how much status we'd need for the amenities we'd need.  That isn't a problem.  it made us feel a bit faint at the expense but it was something that got everyone going 'we could do this!'but the ammenity rent is making us reconsider.Bottom line - we put in our time and energy to get to 52 as a group.  none of us raid.  all of us do writs of some kind.  many of us have houses which we will probalby have to give up to get a guild hall.  Some of us are thinking that might not be worth it, to have a joint house where we can't actually put our displays, our pets, and make meaningful as a guild without painful rental.  Some people are telling us 'so get a guild hall and no ammenities.' ... what?  So get a tacoshell but dont' put anything in it and call it a taco?  I dun thin' so.  What would be the point of paying the big bucks for something that did nothing more that a hovel in nettleville or longshadow alley could do?See, there's the problem in a nutshell.  Its looking like we're not going to be able to put our personal trophys in there, i don't know if that is true or more nay saying from the detractors.  We almost didn't get to put our crafting stations in - that was a dealbreaker right there, I was mightily peeved with that.  I'm very glad that was changed - its a good start.  keep going.  How about start each tier with a number of free slots - by guild level.  lvl 30, none.  lvl 40, 1.  level 50, 2, lvl 60, 3, lvl 70, 6 and so forth - yes, reward people who've ground their guilds to level with some freebies - you could make it so the bigger buildings have fewer freebies, even, to make them more 'hardcore' or something - they are the luxury rich guy dwellings after all, they don't need any breaks from the city to encourage the guild to have a hall.  (though i dont' really think that's fair but its typical.)Our crafted furniture won't make any difference in the upkeep but we'll be able to put it in the house ...right?  what will and won't we be able to put in?  Are we going to be faced with having to downsize our personal houses and have a tiny hovel in nettleville with scads of L&L and HQ trophies in them because we can't display them in the guild hall, yet can't afford bigger personal housing because it all goes to the guild hall? I am however, hopeful that they will give us *guild* trophies to put in, earned as a guild.  (I'd love to see a giant minotaur head on the wall or a dragon hide rug or something.)  I'm trusting that we won't be bitterly dissappointed by lack of content to put in our halls.  The revamps of carpentry and clothes to please us 'fluff' types (roleplayers or maybe just vain folks) have been great.  but stuff we wont' have to pay for in addition to the ridiculous rent already demanded - not for the hall.  We're perfectly comfortable with the initial cost (after the heart attacks and nosebleeds stopped) especially now that its been lowered.  and we're not asking for a t3 hall - we'll probably start out with t1 and move up if we can afford that ...or move out if we can't. If the game becomes a grind to keep up, we'll just do as we did with EQ1 - move on.  That is what all of us will do eventually - the disgruntled raiders who think it isnt' fair that a nobody guild can get a hall at all, the whiners who think that they should get a hall at lvl 1, and the more reasonable viewpoints between.  We'll move on.  some by just ignoring things we dont' like, some by finding other games to play.so... our worries.

• We wont' be able to afford the halls upkeep. (Probably just fretting - i think the rent isn't too horrible for the t1)
• we won't be able to place objects we already have there that have meaning for the guild - hq trophies for instance.
• We wont' be able to afford any ammenities - just a big hall with nothing in it. (this is a very real consideration.  Please don't tell me how we could do it - just accept we're dismayed.)
• There won't be anything to put in the halls aside from ammenities that we couldnt' just put in our regular houses.
• That if we have another summer like we had this year, with 6 players unable to connect for various reasons at various times and unable to grind  (remember we're a 6 active person guild) we will lose access to our stuff and if we're storing the harvests there, you know thats going to hurt the ones who tradeskill for status.
• We will lose members who run off to big guilds who can afford the stuff we can't. (Not likely for my guild really, we're all rl friends, but there are always a few who are all about the bling.  We have taken in people though that we told up front it was fine if they wanted to leave for a raiding guild once they were of level to do so.  Now it will be harder to watch them go.  But we'll always have their donated status. )
• Somehow this is going to become a 'have and have nots' kind of thing and we'll have to endure people saying 'you mean you don't have a guild hall with _list unaffordable amenity here_?  what a bunch of noobs, hahahaha!  here's a copper, i'm sure you'll need it.'  (based on something that actually happened.)

I'm trying not to be as bitterly negative about teh whole thing.  Show us more roleplay potential, reassure us that we're not going to have to give up every bit of our spare time to grind boringly and turn our game into a chore.  We just need reassurance other than 'you can afford it! and if you can't, it sucks to be you!' which is the general feel i get so far. and i for one don't object to paying for the ammenities so much as i am horrified at the cost of them.  By all means - especially the ones that require an NPC - that as a rp feel to it and i am for that in spades, one would have to pay for the services.  but a harvest depot should be a one time purchase and not a rental.  same for other things that are just objects that you place.  Yes, NPCs, maybe even the Farseas mail to the island (though norrathian mail should work if its in town unless farseas mail allows you to do something different from regular mail.) and other things that are services, not objects. 

[Aenielle]

Rothgar wrote:

 Also we are introducing item scaling which should decrease the number of items necessary to make custom decorations and room features.

Stop the presses!

Item scaling?

Meaning scalable chairs?

Meaning there might be a miniscule, far off chance that we could actually get a sitting animation somewhere around 2014?

Nah, not likely, but one can always hope  

[Valirmon]

Nayawk wrote:

Klumpp@Antonia Bayle wrote

You completely miss the point.  Should my nearly 4 year old, 100+ unique account, level 77 guild have to settle for a T1 or T2 hall because we don't raid or grind?  We (and nearly all those who are trying to give the devs some realistic feedback) resent that it looks like we'll have to.

I think the biggest problem is the definition of 'grind' is it is personal and fluid. Forget raiding, no one thinks non raid guild should suddenly become one. But how much grinding is too much and what counts as grind.

Is 30 mins of a persons time a week a grind? Is any obligation of any kind a grind?

For me neither of those things are, but for others they may well be.  The problem for the devs is they have a draw a line somewhere, there has to be a work reward structure in there, there has to be constant ongoing progression or the game becomes static.  On going costs should/can be the mechanic to bring a guild together, make them a unit rather than 100 plus people who just happen to wear matching jackets.

Also in this 100 account 77 guild example I'm not sure the math adds up. Unless every single person has been buying endless city items then that grind you did to get to 77 must have racked up a vast bottomless pit of personal status. And I'm assuming that the long term goal is to get to 80? Thats personal status right there.  

I'm also not really buying into the idea "we are lvl 70 we have earned 70 and we paid our money up front now we should own it outright"  While I'm not all that happy with real world parallels they have been brought up in this thread to support the no upkeep viewpoint, but there is certainly real world examples against it aswell.  Own a home outright = still have to pay rates based on size/location.

Nobody's in our guild to be in a "unit".  That's a decidedly raid guild mentality, and not at all conducive to our idea of entertainment.

The math adds up fine, as you'd have seen 20-30 pages ago when I broke it all down as Rothgar asked.  We're not all level 80 (maybe 1/4 of us), it's taken us nearly 4 years to get where we are (meaning we're not all the same people, and lots of personal status has come and gone from attrition), and we're a RP guild on the RP server (so we're probably more inclined to spend our personal status on the fluff that "units" won't).

And buy it or not, the general sentiment is that we feel entitled.  Certainly not for free, but within the bounds of reality, without being expected to forsake our fundamental priorities and values for the sake of guild hall maintenance.  15pp and 600k status a week in disposable income would require a complete retooling of our guild, moving from casual, RL-first, RP to something more akin to "unit", which we abhor.

[Bratface]

Qandor wrote:

Bratface wrote:

Qandor wrote:

I do not disagree and I too have been a bit puzzled about the outright refusal by some to lift a finger to maintain a guild hall. This is especially true in the light of the fact that if they are not in a level 80 guild they would presumably be doing those tasks to raise their guild level anyway or at least have been up to this point. 

Your final paragraph is pretty much spot on and raising the buy in cost and eliminating the upkeep would in fact impact some guilds adveresly. I was not seriously proposing it as my preferred plan. I was more trying to demonstrate that the whole package may have to be viewed in its entirety. I am uncertain that they would eliminate upkeep and not increase buy in costs. For some it could be a case of be careful what you wish for.

See umm maybe you don't see what you are saying as the flaming that it is so I will give you the benefit of the doubt on it. But I will inform you that your remarks are highly insulting to every person who has posted here about the costs of guild halls for small and medium guilds.No one is refusing to "lift a finger" as you put it. People just don't want to have to spend most of their playtime maintaining the guild hall. The goal should be playing the game for enjoyment, not playing to maintain a shiny.I haven't inherited a guild, I worked hard for every single level we have, no matter how many members were playing or when they quit, we kept going and have gotten to level 41 as of last night. You can look at my amount of status and see how much a regular player has when they are simply leveling their guild through normal playing, like HQ's writs etc. Not with the goal of leveling the guild, but because of how we play, our guild reflects our playing and what we have done, we do not play in order to level the guild, it levels because we play.And that is how we like it, we earned our guild level fair and square, we should be able to enjoy a T1 guild hall along with that, and it should be priced accordingly so that others can do the same without having to sacrifice their playstyles.No one is asking for a freebie, but would it hurt to align prices to the regular player instead of the elitist few who think that everything and everyone should play their way or get out.

I have seen numerous pleas for no upkeep to MAINTAIN a guild hall. I have seen no proposals for less upkeep. So yes, anyone who refuses to accept the concept of some upkeep is unwilling to lift a finger to MAINTAIN a guiid hall. So there, I have said it again.

I think if I see elitist one more time I will barf. Do you folks have any other song to sing? I am in a 9 account guild which is less than one year old. The only thing we raid is the fridge. We are as far from being elite as you can get.

Elitism is in how you think, not what you do. There are no elite players here, just people who think they are....If you haven't seen posts (mine and others) recommending sliding scales of costs, NOT NO COSTS, depending on guild hall tier then you haven't really been keeping up have you?You cannot find one of MY posts that ever says this should all be free, I think I was one of the very first, back in the beginning to say that the prices were TOO STEEP and could we lower them for the T1 and T2 guild halls since those are the ones small and medium guilds will be using most likely. Mind you I said reduce, not remove.Other trolls here have posted straw man arguments about mythicals and fabled gear in comparison to guild halls and amenities, THESE POSTS are what I am arguing against because its a total waste of time and have no meaning. I never said they should all be free etc, but I will not agree with people who claim that wanting a guild hall, even a T1 guild hall is equivalent to wanting a mythical for free.And sir you have still to explain why you made up quotes and attributed them to me in your past post. It seems to me that you are arguing with me about something that I really don't disagree with, but you don't actually read my posts so you don't really know. You are just arguing to argue?

[Rothgar]

Lodrelhai wrote:

Some further clarification on the supply depot/crafting table relationship please?1) If you have recipe components on your character, and the same recipe components in the supply depot, which will the crafting table draw from first?It'll consume from the depot first.2) Currently when looking at a recipe, the tooltip will display all components needed and how much of each component you have.  When at a guild hall crafting table, will this display show only the components on you, or will it count the amount in the supply depot as well?My plan is to have it show whats in your inventory plus whats in the supply depot, but I've not gotten that far yet.  And some other questions  I asked about 10 pages back or so, but I think got missed in the other arguments:1) Currently in houses you cannot pay upkeep from inside the house.  Will we have this ability in guild halls?Yes, you should be able to pay from within.2) I notice a Far Seas Express Mailbox on the amenities list - does this mean the Norrathian Express Boxes currently available will not be useable in the guild hall?There is a special mailbox amenity that you can use to get normal mail.  Its very cheap.3) Same question with the Uniform Mannequins - does this mean we won't be able to place the player-crafted ones in the guild hall?The uniform mannequin amenity is something special.  It allows you to change the armor appearance of your guild hall hirelings.  The player crated armor dummies don't do this but you'll still be able to place them in the guild hall.4) This has been asked by someone else, but I never saw an answer.  If a guild has enough coin/status in escrow to pay for the hall's upkeep, but not for all of the amenities, will the hall still be accessible but the amenities unusable, or will the guild be locked out until everything is paid for?   a) If the hall is accessible, can whoever's paying the rent decide which amenities will not be paid that week?   b) If the hall is locked, will people who use the Call of Guild Hall or in-house teleporter just fail to teleport, or will they be dumped somewhere in the middle of a possibly-hostile city?There is only one upkeep price for the guild hall.  It is the total of the guildhall upkeep + all amenities.  You can either afford to pay that week or you can't.  There's no paying for half of it.I'd have to check with Jindrack on 4b.  I believe at the moment it will port you into the guild hall and then dump you out if the upkeep isn't paid.  I'd like to have it fail the cast altogether but that means we'd have to load the house from the database to check the current status of rent if the house weren't already loaded.

[denmom]

I'd like to offer a suggestion.Buying the halls outright.  No upkeep.Buying the amenities and having upkeep on them.Before I get yelled at, shouted down, or any other of what's flying around these posts...for the record, my guild is looking at a 323p, 14, 750, 000 status purchase for a Tier 2 hall in SQ with 5 amenties: Harvesting Supply Depot, Gathering Hireling, Guild Hall Banker, Guild Translocation Beacon, Mariner's Bell: Kunark.Our weekly upkeep would be 3p 96g, 182, 500 status.I'll be donating 8, 628, 404 status (accumulated on 12 toons total) when we reach L50 and can get the hall.  I've already donated the 250p for base cost, others have chipped in and we sit currently at 290p.  Just need 33p more.We can do this.  There's 5 of us definite on chipping in, one of us who'll do so when he can.  We blinked at the upkeep but have already decided on writ nights, HQ days, etc to keep up the status.  We're bad altoholics and have several thru the tiers.I'm not saying the above to strut out the [Removed for Content] of a L47 small family guild.  I'm saying the above so that others can see that this small guild is willing to shoulder the upkeep of hall and amenities.My suggestion for buying outright and for paying upkeep on the amenities only is given as one that could be a good one for all guilds...small, medium, large, casual, raiding, bit of both, whatever type.

[Rothgar]

Dethdlr@Kithicor wrote:

Rothgar wrote:

People can take whatever they want out of it.  If you think someone would abuse it you can set the access level so that only certain members can use it.   Your own tradeskill tables will be able to consume materials from the supply depot.

Rothgar wrote:

Given our current time constraints, I don't think usage limitations and logging are going to be possible for the supply depot.

I've been skimming the 52 pages of this thread so if this has already been suggested, my appologies.

Would it be possible at least to set two permissions for members/ranks for the Supply Depot?  Can Withdraw and Can Use?

 Can Withdraw: The current plan.  Can pull anything out of the depot they want and do whatever they like with it.  If you need to craft something in SoS for a HQ for example, you could pull raws out.  I'm sure there are plenty of other reasons as well.

 Can Use: Allows you to craft using the raws from the supply depot but wouldn't let you withdraw items directly. 

This would keep some of the concerns down about a disgruntled guild member grabbing loads of items from the supply depot and then dropping guild.  Would also allow recruits to craft using the depot without the fear of them heading off with loads of raws. 

For that matter, you could make Can Use based on rank and Can Withdraw based on player kind of like Guild Recruiter is now if that were easier to implement.  I'd prefer it based on rank personally.  Some method to differentiate between those that can USE the raws vs. those that can TAKE the raws would seem to take care of some of the concerns and doesn't sound like it would be too horrendous of a task to implement, but then again, I don't code for you guys so who know.

 Thanks for all the great work happening relating to guild halls.  I can't wait.

Amenities do not have permissions that will show up in the permissions list of the guild window.  That would be a huge number of permissions plus it would be dynamically changing depending on the amenities you owned.Instead, each amenity has the ability to have a "can use" permission set on it.  There is only one level of permission for each amenity.  You can use it, or you can't.  So in the case of the supply depot, if a member can't use it, they wont be able to craft from it or withdraw from it.  This is so you can make sure non-guildies, alts, recruits, or whoever can br locked from the supply depot.  Some amenities do not have a use permission because it doesnt make sense.  In the case of amenities that have 'admin' capability, this is based on members who have Trustee access to the guild hall.  So for example, the mendor has an admin ability to modify the percentage that the guild pays for.  This is done by a trustee.  However, the permission to repair is based on the "can use" permission on the amenity tab.Clear as mud?    Hopefully it'll make more sense when you see the user-interface.

[Rothgar]

Fizzletop@Splitpaw wrote:

Rothgar wrote:

 Also we are introducing item scaling which should decrease the number of items necessary to make custom decorations and room features.

Stop the presses!

Item scaling?

Meaning scalable chairs?

Meaning there might be a miniscule, far off chance that we could actually get a sitting animation somewhere around 2014?

Nah, not likely, but one can always hope  

Not the same thing.  We've always had the ability to scale items ourselves.  After all, thats how we have shrink/grow spells and items.  But now we're giving YOU the ability to scale items.   It really has nothing to do with creating sit animations, sorry.  Maybe one day though...

[Qandor]

Bratface wrote:

Qandor wrote:

Bratface wrote:

Qandor wrote:

I do not disagree and I too have been a bit puzzled about the outright refusal by some to lift a finger to maintain a guild hall. This is especially true in the light of the fact that if they are not in a level 80 guild they would presumably be doing those tasks to raise their guild level anyway or at least have been up to this point. 

Your final paragraph is pretty much spot on and raising the buy in cost and eliminating the upkeep would in fact impact some guilds adveresly. I was not seriously proposing it as my preferred plan. I was more trying to demonstrate that the whole package may have to be viewed in its entirety. I am uncertain that they would eliminate upkeep and not increase buy in costs. For some it could be a case of be careful what you wish for.

See umm maybe you don't see what you are saying as the flaming that it is so I will give you the benefit of the doubt on it. But I will inform you that your remarks are highly insulting to every person who has posted here about the costs of guild halls for small and medium guilds.No one is refusing to "lift a finger" as you put it. People just don't want to have to spend most of their playtime maintaining the guild hall. The goal should be playing the game for enjoyment, not playing to maintain a shiny.I haven't inherited a guild, I worked hard for every single level we have, no matter how many members were playing or when they quit, we kept going and have gotten to level 41 as of last night. You can look at my amount of status and see how much a regular player has when they are simply leveling their guild through normal playing, like HQ's writs etc. Not with the goal of leveling the guild, but because of how we play, our guild reflects our playing and what we have done, we do not play in order to level the guild, it levels because we play.And that is how we like it, we earned our guild level fair and square, we should be able to enjoy a T1 guild hall along with that, and it should be priced accordingly so that others can do the same without having to sacrifice their playstyles.No one is asking for a freebie, but would it hurt to align prices to the regular player instead of the elitist few who think that everything and everyone should play their way or get out.

I have seen numerous pleas for no upkeep to MAINTAIN a guild hall. I have seen no proposals for less upkeep. So yes, anyone who refuses to accept the concept of some upkeep is unwilling to lift a finger to MAINTAIN a guiid hall. So there, I have said it again.

I think if I see elitist one more time I will barf. Do you folks have any other song to sing? I am in a 9 account guild which is less than one year old. The only thing we raid is the fridge. We are as far from being elite as you can get.

Elitism is in how you think, not what you do. There are no elite players here, just people who think they are....If you haven't seen posts (mine and others) recommending sliding scales of costs, NOT NO COSTS, depending on guild hall tier then you haven't really been keeping up have you?You cannot find one of MY posts that ever says this should all be free, I think I was one of the very first, back in the beginning to say that the prices were TOO STEEP and could we lower them for the T1 and T2 guild halls since those are the ones small and medium guilds will be using most likely. Mind you I said reduce, not remove.Other trolls here have posted straw man arguments about mythicals and fabled gear in comparison to guild halls and amenities, THESE POSTS are what I am arguing against because its a total waste of time and have no meaning. I never said they should all be free etc, but I will not agree with people who claim that wanting a guild hall, even a T1 guild hall is equivalent to wanting a mythical for free.And sir you have still to explain why you made up quotes and attributed them to me in your past post. It seems to me that you are arguing with me about something that I really don't disagree with, but you don't actually read my posts so you don't really know. You are just arguing to argue?

I think you are a bit confused.

I attributed no quote to you. Perhaps you should take your own advice and read.

Maybe its that huge font. Just wondering, do words carry more weight when you use a big font?

Sliding scale doesn't work too well. Big guilds will buy small halls to get amenities cheaper. It's all about the amenities for many folks. They could care less about decorating. Not to mention the fact that a mender is a mender. Why would one mender be cheaper than another? Same goes for most any of the amenities. Or are you proposing a tax based on guild size? You cannot have different prices for identical items.

[Rothgar]

Bratface wrote:

If you haven't seen posts (mine and others) recommending sliding scales of costs, NOT NO COSTS, depending on guild hall tier then you haven't really been keeping up have you?You cannot find one of MY posts that ever says this should all be free, I think I was one of the very first, back in the beginning to say that the prices were TOO STEEP and could we lower them for the T1 and T2 guild halls since those are the ones small and medium guilds will be using most likely. Mind you I said reduce, not remove.

I'm trying to stay out of the whole upkeep argument for now, but I did just want to comment on one thing you said.   It really doesn't seem fair to change amenity prices depending on the guild hall tier.  This would punish a guild that wants to buy a larger guild hall.  And before you say that its fair because the amenities would be used by more people, there's nothing keeping a small guild of very active players from buying the biggest guild hall.  So punishing this small guild of hard workers because they want to move up from a T1 to a T2 or a T3 hall just isn't fair.  This is why the base price and upkeep of the halls are higher as you move up.  Also we really don't want to encourage people to buy lower tier guild halls because they can get the amenities cheaper.

[Pitt Hammerfi]

How about items you place in your house that effect upkeep and status costs

I know the fabled chest house item, reduces rent by or status 10% i think, better make sure that doesnt work in the guild halls

[troodon]

Bratface wrote:

???? Who are you quoting? You attribute it to me but I never said that.

Not only do you quote me out of context you quote someone else or make up something (I don't know) and claim it is me.....

I'm sorry, I confused you with another poster.  My mistake.