Thanks Devs!!

[Dreadpatch]

With all the continuous whining I still see on the posts for coercer, now regarding the mythical epic weapon, I actually wanted to say thanks!!!  And for those people unhappy still, the changes made to the mythical epic are EXACTLY what people were asking for in the forum, go take a look!! 

 With the GU 46 updates I leveled my coercer to 80, and the changes are fantastic.  I am actually a little resentful that our class can be considered pure dps now, as I feel we should be utility all the way with the chance to do some damage.  OMG!! Appreciate what they did and give it up.

 We were never meant to be a "damage class" as there are many other things we bring to the table inclusing a 78% dps mod that can be applied to more than one toon.  Just be happy with what you have, and let the devs concentrate on some other classes that REALLY need some work.  A good coercer should have enough tools at their fingertips at this point to not be complaining about anything.

[Oriax]

Yep I have to agree with Dreadpatch. I have always liked the Coercer even through all the good and bad changes. Since this last big one in GU46 just simply made the class to be awesome. Now not only do we have crowd control we can also pump out some decent damage (more than I expected really). As in all situations though, especially when there are so many people, not everyone can be pleased.

From what I've seen by reading all the mages forums DPS seems to be the main focus  If everyone would just shut up about DPS all the time, learn to play their class for what it is and work together to take down mobs. Who gives a rats [Removed for Content] in who can do more DPS or kill a mob faster.

[Strange]

Ur still naive Those guildies still aren't really into Coercer lately eventhough Aerlik made some hotfixes last GU45. It helps our DPS and does it make difference in the raiding... Not really because many other players out dps coercer easily, even Illy. Our DPS mean nothing with raiding and our utility aren't good as Illy. Thus they continue seeking Illy to fill in their guildies.Coercer epic's really sucks cuz the proc RARELY working and assist our need, MANA MANA MANA, enough please. Looks like Aerlik's so obsessed with PE that discouraged me to play Coercer as RP. Im not trying to compete with Illy, but be COERCER. Looks like more more like Illy's little sister. Its joke to playing game with incompetent devs.Surely EQ2 will be dried up after several MMOs release coming up this fall, Warhammer, Stargate Worlds, and more. It's their loss.

[Jesdyr]

Strange@Kithicor wrote:

Surely EQ2 will be dried up after several MMOs release coming up this fall, Warhammer, Stargate Worlds, and more. It's their loss.

If you think one item in the game is going to make or break the game as a whole then there is nothing more to say. Why not just leave now ? Some of you raiders complain about everything. The sky is always falling isnt it ?

[Yimway]

Jesdyr@Unrest wrote:

Strange@Kithicor wrote:Some of you raiders complain about everything. The sky is always falling isnt it ?

Cause we're evaluating each new game as it releases.  AoC was not the place to move to.  Warhammer does look really promising.I personally am filling time between raids in Eve, and warhammer beta and I'm 95% sure I'll move on once it releases.  RoK was really the worst expansion I've seen to date between both EQ titles, and really offended me as an MMO fan. 

[Strange]

Don't get me wrong, Im so much fan of EQ and EQ2. Care enough to speak out what's wrong. This game is multi-player based game, which we all seeking usefulness and uniqueness playing per characters. Yea, everybody thinks differently. Noticed Coercer becoming more more Illusion rather than coercing. When I use coercing spells on Epics and mobs resisted/not noticeable due to spell timer on epics. So, we got ourselves drain into DPS, that we're suppose not to be DPS player, if player want do caster dps, they should pick Wizzy, Necro, etc not Coercer. We are crowd control and I dont see any good in our spells with epic mobs. That's why many guilds don't find coercer usefulness.We're spreading our role too thin. Yea we're blast solo/group player cuz we have plenty spells to get ourselves around. Im solo hard core but not able to raiding high ends. I understood their perspective with Coercer, they could invite only a coercer or even better replace with two or three illusion. Aerlik need to change our Wisdom AA tree, cuz not sensible for Coercer, it needs more Stifle, root, daze AA for our role playing to be more of DPS or Stunt specialist. Just thought.

[Illine]

it's not that we are complainingAs said the coercer is a great solo class and I love it.But in a raid setting, we're always wondering our goal. we're meant for MT, Ot groups but usually we end up where there's some place. Tonight on Nexona the raid leader didn't know where to put me. Because they needed to put lots of dps on 2 groups so wasn't for me, then I was in a group with an Illu, then he placed me in the clickers group.my problem is that we're supposed to help aggro and to help regen, but usually there not real need of mana regen, especially with mythicals and other classes help with aggro more (dirge who also has great buffs, swash who usually debuffs the big boss and so helps with aggro and has the dirge buffs). there's no way we can compete with an illu in the mage dps group so we're stuck were there's some room for us.2 coercer in a raid is useless and the game is too much about dps. cc is sometimes important on heroic adds, but there's not many heroic adds. stun, stiffle, daze are quitte limited on epic mobs. And sometimes mobs are even immune because otherwise we're too ubber.the problem of the coercer is that he's a crowd controller more than a dps but SoE unables CC for the hardest mobs and we don't bring the dps an illu will bring (not only personnal dps, but also procs and buffs).no one said the changes weren't great. they were usefull, the problem is more centered around the class focus and the way the game is played. and it's not always going the same way.

[XFnarX]

Yeah EQ2 has a lot of issues... honestly I can point out numerous ones and why it's failing VS the big boy on the field. (World of Warcraft) It's pretty simple, but it's SoEs and the Devs choice to attack things the way they do. If you don't like it, then go play something else. I have tried every other MMO out there so far and, for a very long time, EQ1 was the only one I'd play until FFXI and EQ2 came out. FFXI turned out to just be a silly hope that it would be an MMO style that lived up to the popular console games but then after OoW in EQ1, EQ2 took my attention and has kept it since. Every other game that I have purchased and tried has failed to keep me amused. If another game comes out and has what EQ2 ia lacking then yes, I will switch, however until that happens why not express my opinion on this game and try to improve it while I'm here? 2cp

[Pyra Shineflame]

Atan@Unrest wrote:

Jesdyr@Unrest wrote:

Strange@Kithicor wrote:Some of you raiders complain about everything. The sky is always falling isnt it ?

Cause we're evaluating each new game as it releases.  AoC was not the place to move to.  Warhammer does look really promising.I personally am filling time between raids in Eve, and warhammer beta and I'm 95% sure I'll move on once it releases.  RoK was really the worst expansion I've seen to date between both EQ titles, and really offended me as an MMO fan. 

I'm going to take whatever you say Atan with a grain of salt as I distinctly remember you threatening and urging everyone to quit when RoK came out.

You are still here. And still complaining. I get you didn't like RoK. Fine, it didn't work out for you so stop moaning about it since you seem deadset on leaving. Geez.

On a relevant note, I personally am pretty so-so over the changes. Coercer for me has always been about adapting to situations then again, maybe since I don't have to fight to keep my position on a raid against an Illu I don't see the big deal.

[Dalema]

The best way to test how balanced a class is is to ask how wanted they are in the raid.

Raid's still want 2-3 Illys and only 1 Coercer.

I'm a ton happier with my Coercer now compared to pre GU45, but that being said, Coercers still aren't on a par with Illusionists, and until they are, I won't be completely happy

[Calm]

I am a very happy coercer.  Our raid force has cleared VP.  We have 2 full time coercer's: me in the MT group and another in the OT group.  Both of us think the recent updates have been great.  I feel like a contributor with everything I offer (which also includes some raid leadership).  Hell, I even liked the RoK expansion.  I may be ignorant to many things in EQ, but I'll second (third, whatever) Dreadpatch's thoughts... thanks Aeralik.

[Rijacki]

In comparison with my parse, I can tell which group our illusionist is in.  If he is next to me (one above or below me), he's in the mage group.  If he's 2 or more below me, he's in the OT group.  Even though his actual DPS has gone up since GU45, I about fell out of my chair when the raid leader was evaluating which would be the better group for him with the comment "since the Illusionist nerf in GU45".  After the "nerf" (*rolls her eyes*), he perceives he is of more benefit in the OT group than the benefit he gets from the mage group.Frankly, before GU45 (and especially in T7), I thought he was a much better illusionist than I think now.Oh.. and in the MT group, it is rare I am below 10th on the parse especially on named (and frequently no less than 5th), even while managing power and all the rest of the coercer-y stuff.  In non-raid grouping, I am frequently the top of the parse.Say what you will about "if you wanted to do damage be a wizard", I -love- coercer and being high on the parse is dern fun, too (wizards cast waaaaay too slow and have nothing to.. umm.. influence their own damage as much as we do).

[Strange]

Exactly, that's my issue here, so obsessed with DMG DMG DMG. What's unique in it? What's the fun to be coercer? I love idea being crowd controller. Only able to CC with solo and group and yet not raiding. Got really bored with Coercer from raiding so easily. When we got wipe out, I couldn't contribute any CC or prevent from raid turmoil. Usually swallow into wiping, we should be able to calm and weaken the epics, so healer may take the situation back such as rez MT, etc. Not what I have seen with raiding.I agreed completely with Earar about our situation stuck in place where the Devs rather leave it alone and following the wind goes. Not really healthy when it comes to "no idea" what they're doing with the classes. A lot of classes are unbalancing, losing signification role playing with EQ2. Really sadden me, but doesn't take me away from playing EQ2 easily Of course still playing my Main, Coercer to the Void

[Melli]

AvatarJay wrote:

Exactly, that's my issue here, so obsessed with DMG DMG DMG. What's unique in it? What's the fun to be coercer? I love idea being crowd controller. Only able to CC with solo and group and yet not raiding. Got really bored with Coercer from raiding so easily. When we got wipe out, I couldn't contribute any CC or prevent from raid turmoil. Usually swallow into wiping, we should be able to calm and weaken the epics, so healer may take the situation back such as rez MT, etc. Not what I have seen with raiding.I agreed completely with Earar about our situation stuck in place where the Devs rather leave it alone and following the wind goes. Not really healthy when it comes to "no idea" what they're doing with the classes. A lot of classes are unbalancing, losing signification role playing with EQ2. Really sadden me, but doesn't take me away from playing EQ2 easily Of course still playing my Main, Coercer to the Void

If all you're doing on raids is damage, then yes, you should have rolled a wizzie.  There is MUCH more to playing a raiding coercer than that.  Granted, we just cleared the second wing of VP and got a ton of mythicals, so some of it may change when power stops being as much of an issue - but I do way more on raids than just pump out damage.  We have so many tools at our disposal that can make or break a fight, and some of my favorite fights to date (like Nexona) have required that I use pretty much every tool at my disposal.  Fights like that make it all worth it.That being said, we're still sub-par to illusionists in many ways - utility, crowd control, dps.  We need one more skill that is less situational than most of what we have to really make us qualify for something other than MT (and occassionally OT) group.  Everything we have really puts us in that MT group slot and no where else - thought snap, coercive healing, mana ward are really only needed there.  TC and IA fit into any group in the raid and are highly desirable.

[Rijacki]

AvatarJay wrote:

Exactly, that's my issue here, so obsessed with DMG DMG DMG. What's unique in it? What's the fun to be coercer? I love idea being crowd controller. Only able to CC with solo and group and yet not raiding. Got really bored with Coercer from raiding so easily. When we got wipe out, I couldn't contribute any CC or prevent from raid turmoil. Usually swallow into wiping, we should be able to calm and weaken the epics, so healer may take the situation back such as rez MT, etc. Not what I have seen with raiding.I agreed completely with Earar about our situation stuck in place where the Devs rather leave it alone and following the wind goes. Not really healthy when it comes to "no idea" what they're doing with the classes. A lot of classes are unbalancing, losing signification role playing with EQ2. Really sadden me, but doesn't take me away from playing EQ2 easily Of course still playing my Main, Coercer to the Void

Why not be able to do damage while also keeping power up, throwing out CC when/if needed, add buffs to particular people, debuff a bit, etc?If you want to be a one-note nelly and -only- CC, ghods.. that would be boooooring. I want to do a bit of a lot of things and keep hopping about and thinking about what I am doing and how what I am doing is helping others.Oh.. and the reason for the diminished effect of CC in raiding.... if a coercer (or anyone else) could "stun-lock" an epic encounter, it would be boring and would take zero risk for anyone else.While it's not possible to totally incapacitate an epic encounter with CC: it is possible to "save the day" by timing your channeling to prevent a wipe from lack of power for the healers, it is possible to help other debuffers stick their debuffs by tossing tashiana and the right time, it is possible to reduce -some- damage by stun or daze or stifle, it is possible to keep the hate square on the MT so everyone else can unleash, etc.

[Snikey]

Rijacki wrote:it is possible to help other debuffers stick their debuffs by tossing tashiana and the right time

Could you explain? I was under the impression the Tash only effected mitigation, which inturn only effected damage absorbsion. I was under the impression that only debuffing wisdom and buffing casters' spell skills were the only way to help with outright resists.

[XFnarX]

um... resists are based off of "resistance" check for that particular spell type. Example: Most Defiler debuffs are Disease and Poison based. Thus debuff those resists will help them land. Resistance checks aren't only for damage they are also for... and hold on to your hat for this shocker... RESISTS!!! [Removed for Content]

[Rijacki]

In GU45, Tashiana was changed from a mental only debuff  to an all magicial types debuff that is a lot harder for the target to resist than most other debuffs from other casts and a lot harder to resist than damage spells.When it was mental only it would help only mental-based spells land better: anyone (such as coercers) doing mental damage, taunts (according to most), and other mental-based hostile spells.Now that it is all magical types, it helps -anyone- casting a debuff or even a damage spell.  When Aeralik changed it, he specifically said it was made harder to resist so that a coercer casting Tash would make it easier for all other classes to cast their debuffs in order for the resists on a target to be lowered and all spell casters to do more damage.