Epic Weapon changes in GU47.

[RogueSpideyChick]

because of the present state of the game, ive left the game with my guild kkthx. i was just trying to help with input because furies have been getting pushed out slowly because of the changes the game has gone through. a GOOD change to the fury mythical, could POSSIBLY cement furies back in the mage group where they belong.i LOVE my class & wouldnt consider for a second switching to one of my MANY alts.truth is, other healer classes bring more to the group than a fury in it's present state. make a change to our mythical that makes us the most desired healer in the mage group for ALL guilds, no matter the lvl& we HAVE given ideas over & over & over & over since mythicals were introduced for ideas to incorperate to them, but theyve been ignored time & time again.  look earlier in the thread, feithen & i have BOTH given constructive information for ideas, along with other furies.  im not calling for a nerf to ANY class, im asking for a change to the fury mythical to make us the most desired for the mage group hands down, because atm, there isnt a set group really that we belong to when looking at our buffs, stat caps, & present solo stats of the classes in game.

[Sabutai]

Eristher wrote:

Hint for the partisan of killing the baby before its birth, please try to be constructive about YOUR epic, propose good and realistic things in structured and argumented posts, its a waste of time to argue on another class epic-to-be, makes you looks like spoiled children who are afraid of seeing  someone having a new toy they'd like to have too. As i already said, wait to see the changes implemented to your epic, be open-minded as the devs maybe wont change the things the way you would have thought appropriate but it may be even better than hoped for, gives feedback, not destructive post screaming for a nerf that doesnt even concern you.Inquisitors are meant to be in middle of AE, so curing faster is not overpowered, its needed, its just a boost on something we already do, but soon we will be able to do it better without killing anyone else's fun in game. What good raider wouldnt like to see some better survivability added to the raid? Too much hypocrisy and greed in this thread.No need to argue on the desirability of a class over another in raid if changes are implemented, furies are useful, if they think they are not for any reason, does not ask for other classes to be nerfed, but asked to be beefed up, or easier, just rethink the way you play. Leveling from the base is not a good thing, better level from the upside.You think inquis will be OP with this epic? Your opinion, but its a bit presomptuous to judge another people's good from your point of view. Will we be able to beat you on parses? I dont think either, and thats the particualrity of the fury class to be able to do good DPS on lots of situation where inquis just spam heals and cant barely hit the mob with autoattack because they chain cast in middle of AEs. You guys lack some self confidence as a healer because you've spent too much time watching the DPS parse and asking for more DPS since Day one.Once more, furies are useful in raid, you can give the name of some top guild using an inquisitor, better give the name of some top guild not using a fury, its more constructive imo.Stop shooting the medic car please, i dont think we inquis have attacked your epic or your utility.PS: now we have to explain to furies why they are useful.  Next step,we'll have to ask for their epic to be changed, then the next step will be to tell them what spells to use in raid and what casting order they have to do them.Borgrim

dude learn to format, every one of your posts is just painful to even look at, let alone read.

[Eristher]

Yes, sorry, i hate 1 line laconic post about the form and not the ideas debated, i dont think its constructive, so i post big paragraphs of more than 2 lines, its a bit harder to read but so much comfortable to explain things =)/sarcasm offTo RogueSpideyChickInput does not mean useless criticism and jealousy, but i support you on the idea of a change to fury mythical, whatever it could be. And to the templar who thinks he'd rather have a clickie cure, just remember you're not alone in the group generally, 3 healer or even 2 healers in a group casting a 20 secs recast group cure is better than a 15 secs recast clickie for a healer alone in a DPS group and that you have one of the most powerful mythical weapon atm, so you'd better stay where we cant see you before people asks for a nerf to your AE immunity and so on =)Borgrim

[Sabutai]

Eristher wrote:

Yes, sorry, i hate 1 line laconic post about the form and not the ideas debated, i dont think its constructive, so i post big paragraphs of more than 2 lines, its a bit harder to read but so much comfortable to explain things =)/sarcasm offTo RogueSpideyChickInput does not mean useless criticism and jealousy, but i support you on the idea of a change to fury mythical, whatever it could be. And to the templar who thinks he'd rather have a clickie cure, just remember you're not alone in the group generally, 3 healer or even 2 healers in a group casting a 20 secs recast group cure is better than a 15 secs recast clickie for a healer alone in a DPS group and that you have one of the most powerful mythical weapon atm, so you'd better stay where we cant see you before people asks for a nerf to your AE immunity and so on =)Borgrim

well if nobody reads your dribble because its too hard to read, how is that getting your idea across?

[Eristher]

You're the only one complaining, and i have been posting since 10 pages more now on this thread =)Borgrim

[Alarick0]

Eristher wrote:

Hint for the partisan of killing the baby before its birth, please try to be constructive about YOUR epic, propose good and realistic things in structured and argumented posts, its a waste of time to argue on another class epic-to-be, makes you looks like spoiled children who are afraid of seeing  someone having a new toy they'd like to have too. As i already said, wait to see the changes implemented to your epic, be open-minded as the devs maybe wont change the things the way you would have thought appropriate but it may be even better than hoped for, gives feedback, not destructive post screaming for a nerf that doesnt even concern you.Inquisitors are meant to be in middle of AE, so curing faster is not overpowered, its needed, its just a boost on something we already do, but soon we will be able to do it better without killing anyone else's fun in game. What good raider wouldnt like to see some better survivability added to the raid? Too much hypocrisy and greed in this thread.No need to argue on the desirability of a class over another in raid if changes are implemented, furies are useful, if they think they are not for any reason, does not ask for other classes to be nerfed, but asked to be beefed up, or easier, just rethink the way you play. Leveling from the base is not a good thing, better level from the upside.You think inquis will be OP with this epic? Your opinion, but its a bit presomptuous to judge another people's good from your point of view. Will we be able to beat you on parses? I dont think either, and thats the particualrity of the fury class to be able to do good DPS on lots of situation where inquis just spam heals and cant barely hit the mob with autoattack because they chain cast in middle of AEs. You guys lack some self confidence as a healer because you've spent too much time watching the DPS parse and asking for more DPS since Day one.Once more, furies are useful in raid, you can give the name of some top guild using an inquisitor, better give the name of some top guild not using a fury, its more constructive imo.Stop shooting the medic car please, i dont think we inquis have attacked your epic or your utility.PS: now we have to explain to furies why they are useful.  Next step,we'll have to ask for their epic to be changed, then the next step will be to tell them what spells to use in raid and what casting order they have to do them.Borgrim

I think you hit the nail on the head on several of your points there Borgrim.Also, the Enter button at least after every . ? or ! will make things easier on the eyes

[Judist]

I'd like to suggest some alternatives to the readjustment of "Spirit Feast" on the Mystics weapon. While most guilds only run with 1 mystic, I understand that bringing 2-3 mystics on a raid could trivialize some encounters by allowing this ability to be used quite often. This is usually the reason powerful raidwide buffs of this magnitude often have immunity timers, or are simply changed to groupwide only.I think we can agree that 1 mystic alone wont trivialize any encounter with a buff that has a 5 minute reuse time. So while SF is indeed amazing in its current form, I think any reduction it receives should be looked at carefully. I suggest any of the following:1) Reduce the heal/power restore amount.2) Add a raidwide immunity to spirit feast to prevent immediate re-stacking.3) Have it effect ALL raid players but only those who are close to the mystic.I think any of the above ideas could prevent misuse yet still keep it "mythical" in the terms of abilities. While a nerf in some manner is acknowledged, I'd like to keep this effect raidwide if possible. I fear that if the change occurs in its current form, its downgraded to something a cheap miracle or blessing can do for the group.

[hisawat]

Arica@Kithicor wrote:

truth is, other healer classes bring more to the group than a fury in it's present state. make a change to our mythical that makes us the most desired healer in the mage group for ALL guilds, no matter the lvl

As a lot of us already said, fury can heal a group better (easier and faster). So, fury can bring better survivability to the group than clerics and shamans.  Furthermore, fury can DPS from distance much better.  You guys might have less buffs, but you guys can do what other healers can't do.  You guys should be more confident to yourself.

[Echgar]

Sabutai wrote:

well if nobody reads your dribble because its too hard to read, how is that getting your idea across?

Let's be a little more constructive and on-topic please.As a reminder to everyone, you are welcome to disagree with other posters on the forums, but please keep your comments on-topic, constructive, and courteous.

[Avirodar]

You know Inq's have something that has some use, if furies are complaining.

As stated many times, the group cure clicky is only truly useful on a small handful of encounters. Nice, yes. Gamebreaking, no.

Most high end guilds run with one Inq, if that. If the Inq is in a mage group, it means the melee DPS group (if the raid has one) will miss out. Any healer in the game is capable of keeping a DPS group (scout, mage or hybrid) alive. However, druids can do it so much easier, especially if chokers are involved. Furies can put out both a good heal parse and good DPS parse, at the same time, with significantly greater ease than a cleric.

However, the point of this thread is epic weapons.

Yes, confirmed puts a Inq in a "caster" group... Unless things have changed, they have a templar in the MT group, and another templar in the OT group, and run two caster focused DPS groups to make up the full raid. No real scout group shy of the OT group where a templar gets placed. They want to keep an Inq on hand, but as they do not put it in the MT or OT group, it kind of has to go in a caster/hybrid group by default.  Does this truly reflect a class balance? Not entirely. But if furies are being told to sit because Inqs have a 1.4 proc per minute chance for a few hundred damage, it would not hurt to throw furies some kind of bone. Just keep in mind the DPS+Heal options of a fury vastly exceed that of an inquisitor. 

[Eighty]

I don't post often, and I know this has all been said before, but nothing seems to be getting done so here goes...The swash weapon needs to be changed.The damage over time proc should be direct damage. The Swashbuckler class does not have a single DoT on any CA or AA ability, yet we're the only melee class who's epic procs a DoT. Also, the DoT ruins our ability to mez. Sounds more like tripping over your own feet than "class defining".The increased hate transfer should be a constant effect. Why have it proc after the ranger has already pulled aggro and wiped the raid?The 10% reduction to spell damage, which is lame to begin with, should be attached to one of our CAs and not the end ability of one of the Rogue AA lines. Whats the point in putting this on Traumatic Swipe? Its not "unique" or "class defining" in any way. Also, it forces us to spend 24 AA points just to get this one crappy effect. Sure, maybe most are spec'd that way already, but theres no point in forcing it.This is not even asking for better effects or an increase in damage. This is just what needs to be done in order to fix this weapon.If you want to make something we can actually be excited about (which I thought was the point of epic weapons) more changes need to be made. The best suggestion so far would be removing the wield restrictions from the Rogue Fencer line. This would make a more unique weapon and would fit right in with the Swashbuckler's trademark high auto attack damage. This effect could replace the 10% spell damage reduction or even the +10% CA damage. There are also plenty of other suggestions on the Swashbuckler boards.Epic weapons are supposed to be just that: Epic. As it is right now, the swash weapon is more of a, "meh, I GUESS I'll use it."We want to be proud to wield this blade.

[Subu]

I know there arent many high end berserkers around anymore and thats why you wont hear many complains but pls still look at the suggestions for our epic in the berserker forum.If you can t.ex. just adjust delay and dmg spread it would help a lot.ThxPS: You wouldnt find so many f... complains here if you hadnt made some myths so overpowered. If they all were just "ordinary" it wouldnt be such a huge prob. But if we take the guardian myth. It makes them the best tanks with such a huge difference its no contest anymore. With the free 8% avoidance from sta tree and 60 % autoattack they do more dps than a lot of dps classes and have better avoidance than brawlers.

[samejima]

Aeralik wrote:

Dream Scorcher( Defiler )

• This now gives heal crit instead of spell crit.
• Now grants bonuses to both spells and heals.
• Proc should no longer drop when damage is taken

From my perspective this doesn't address any of the issues with our epic. The main problem with our epic is the clicky effect. Yes we are a hybrid class, yes we can do DPS but our primary role is still healing. If you look at the encounters you have designed this expansion you will quickly realize that a defiler hardly has time to DPS. With damage shields being overly abundant a priest shouldn't be attacking the mob on most fights. So why is our clicky effect so counter intuitive?With that being said the 6% spell crit to heal crit an alright change but I personally already sit at 90%+ heal crit on raids. The addition of 8% spell damage brings up the question what is this for? Defilers will hardly ever be put in a mage dps group, unless the raid leader is letting us have some fun. So then really its only for us and the enchanter(if we have one in the group) just seems really useless. The three most important things for a defiler is heal crit, reuse and casting speed, yet we only now get one of those? +heal really isn't to useful either considering a fury on any hard encounters will give us their buff. Overall the only useful effect on our epic is healing shroud. How about our clicky is a mini version of ROA 22% casting recovery recast group wide on a five min recast? Or a debuff opposite of bane of warding, when the mob is damaged it places a ward on the attacker? Or a buff we can place on our self or our target to improve casting speed by 18% and reuse by 6%. Basically ANYTHING would be better than damage seeing as it is detrimental to attack most mobs as a priest.What it seems to boil down to is that defilers are a hybrid class dps/heals but we can't even do close to what a fury can, so the epic tried to balance damage and healing. Only problem is we don't get to DPS much during raids :/ making more than half of our mythical useless. I hope that you can see how designing anything more than our proc giving 8% spell damage would be a complete waste. The epic should reinforce why we are in the raid and further more a tank group, hence a buff a debuff or a heal. Though personally I think we lack some sort of temp buff.

[Snarks]

Borgrim@Runnyeye wrote:

Hint for the partisan of killing the baby before its birth, please try to be constructive about YOUR epic, propose good and realistic things in structured and argumented posts, its a waste of time to argue on another class epic-to-be, makes you looks like spoiled children who are afraid of seeing  someone having a new toy they'd like to have too. As i already said, wait to see the changes implemented to your epic, be open-minded as the devs maybe wont change the things the way you would have thought appropriate but it may be even better than hoped for, gives feedback, not destructive post screaming for a nerf that doesnt even concern you.Inquisitors are meant to be in middle of AE, so curing faster is not overpowered, its needed, its just a boost on something we already do, but soon we will be able to do it better without killing anyone else's fun in game. What good raider wouldnt like to see some better survivability added to the raid? Too much hypocrisy and greed in this thread.No need to argue on the desirability of a class over another in raid if changes are implemented, furies are useful, if they think they are not for any reason, does not ask for other classes to be nerfed, but asked to be beefed up, or easier, just rethink the way you play. Leveling from the base is not a good thing, better level from the upside.You think inquis will be OP with this epic? Your opinion, but its a bit presomptuous to judge another people's good from your point of view. Will we be able to beat you on parses? I dont think either, and thats the particualrity of the fury class to be able to do good DPS on lots of situation where inquis just spam heals and cant barely hit the mob with autoattack because they chain cast in middle of AEs. You guys lack some self confidence as a healer because you've spent too much time watching the DPS parse and asking for more DPS since Day one.Once more, furies are useful in raid, you can give the name of some top guild using an inquisitor, better give the name of some top guild not using a fury, its more constructive imo.Stop shooting the medic car please, i dont think we inquis have attacked your epic or your utility.PS: now we have to explain to furies why they are useful.  Next step,we'll have to ask for their epic to be changed, then the next step will be to tell them what spells to use in raid and what casting order they have to do them.Borgrim

Basically instead of forming a good argument, you are QQing all over this thread Look, I have a pretty solid understanding of the game. I think raiding since tier5 and playing numerous classes along the way have given me the experience necessary to present my opinion in this thread. Inquisitors are beastly healers that can solo heal any fight in the game and can certainly manage curing (Atleast ours can). I think when designing mythicals you need to look at the purpose of a class before you try and fill holes in usefulness. The bard weapons are a good display of this; They buff their respective specialties (Mages/Melee) very well. The mage ones supply better pets to the summoners, better buffs for the enchanters, and better dps for the sorcerers. Similarly, the fighter mythicals give better tanking ability to the guardians and brawlers. So who feels unhappy with their mythical? By in large the most vocal classes have been those who's mythicals do not support their role. Berzerkers wanted tanking ability - not DPS. Paladins wanted survivabilityl - not heal buffs. When some classes get their "purpose" augmented even further, those classes who struggle to define themselves get left in the dust. Concerning the healer epics, I think its easy to see why most people considered the mystic one overpowered. It gave the best DPS buffs to the group and the greatest healing ability. Ignoring the fact that you would be offended if your mythical offered supplemental bonuses to items (like the bloodthirsty choker) which are desirable for a reason, taking into account what I've said already I would design the priest mythicals the following way: Clerics: Templar (Defensive Buffs/Heals) Ability Change: Same Proc: Same "Clicky": permanent buff on single target. Group only. 5% chance to reflect 50% of damage taken on attacker. Inquisitor (Offensive buffs/Heals) Ability Change: All detriments to fanaticism are removed Proc: Same as it is now. "Clicky": 2 minute recast. When weapon is clicked it starts a heroic opportunity (Unique one - like in K'Dal). There are 3 versions. A solo one that gives you 20% casting speed increase for 2 minutes. The trio version requires a Priest, a Scout, and a Mage to progress. This one gives a 2 minute buff that "ticks" a full group cure every 30 seconds. It also grants 10 haste, 10 dps, 10 melee and 5 spell double attack to the group. The last HO requires all 4 archetypes to advance and grants hostile spell immunity to the group for 2 minutes and grants 40% incombat runspeed. This makes the group immune to damage shields of epics (but somehow not immune to aoes or script based spells). The first HO would be the most common (45%), the second one would be the next most common (35%) and the last one would be the least common (20%). Druids Warden (Cures / Heals) Ability Change: Tranquility (cure thingy) becomes group wide. Proc: Procs on beneficial spells. Group takes 10% less elemental damage and resists are increased by 1k "Clicky": Places a 4k ward on the target (group only). The single target regen "fills up" this ward, and nothing else can. It does not dispell when it reaches 0. This way, regens are not being useless even when the tank is at full health. This also balances the awful disparity between regens and wards. Fury (Offensive Buffs[dps]/Heals) Ability Change: Fae Immolation will now proc off any attack, and triggers are increased to 10. Damage is doubled, but each proc has a chance to deal damage to the group. Proc: 100% chance on hostile spell to heal group for 300 and deal 200 damage. 5% chance (1.8) on hostile spell to increase group hostile spell dmg base by 8% for 20 seconds. "Clicky": *Same as it is now - Places buff on target that increases spell/heal relative to amount of your last damage spell* Shaman Mystic (Defensive Buffs/Heals) Ability Change: Single target dps debuff now lowers the targets maximum debuff allowance by an addition 10% dps and haste Proc: On beneficial spell reduces damage taken by 5-10% for 20 seconds. "Clicky": Placed on player. Group only. On successful block, dodge, or parry targets parry is increased by 5% for 10 seconds. Defiler (Offensive Buffs[dps]/Heals)* Ability Change: Bane of Warding now wards attackers (Like Templar Mark line). Proc: Procs off spells. 50% increased spell damage (base). Dispelled when defiler casts a beneficial spell. "Clicky": Raidwide. Single target gains 25% casting speed, 25% recovery and 10% reuse. Defiler shares the same bonus. I believe with these changes I have succeeded in capturing the "vision" of each class with their mythical, as well as providing much needed "smoothing out" and balancing of classes to make them all viable on the complex endgame raid encounters we are seeing. There are also some unique opportunities seized like embracing the under-utilized HO system. *I listed the defiler as Offensive Buffs because this is clearly the vision for the class. Over the last 3 years they have failed to define Defilers correctly. They have become a staple in MT groups because of their HP buffs and Tendrils of Terror. Yet at the same time they give defilers DPS abilities. Its [Removed for Content] poor design, and the mythicals offer a unique chance to correct it.

[Alarick0]

I would have to say that the entire Inquisitor community who has made countless posts on the several different forums knows the inner workings of their class better than you do Snarks.While you do have a solid understanding of the game, you do not have a solid understanding of Inquisitors.The simple fact that you say the proc should stay as it is proves that.It's only useful on one encounter, Pawbuster, and if you need help with that encounter, you obviously do not have your mythical.Please stop calling for the nerf bat, and let us finally have something useful on our mythical.

[kw]

Luceus@Everfrost wrote:

Good change to the Inq's, but please, please take a better look at the Brigand changes, and the brigand mythical in general.  Casting speed is useless, especially since it's usually near 'capped' with a bard and sailwind.  We get an increase in rear-only attacks which is a grand total of 4 CA's (5 if counting master strike). The dmg proc (Havoc's Fury) seems to do less than our Rogue counterpartsMost raid mobs are pretty well capped at attack speed reduction, but if not then I do like that proc. And finally our debuffs go from destroying a mobs defense to destroying a mobs defense a tad more.  Where is the class defining proc?   Or why no mod like other classes get?   Here is a list of epics that actually change the mechanics of a spell or AA line:Troub/ Dirge- Raidwide procMystics - Spirit TapWarlock - changes group spells to single target - good for RoKWizard - Double attackNecro / Conjy - New hardcore petsCoercer - adds mental damage to tanks taunts, mana flow groupwideAssassins - multiple target damageIllu - Rapidity, removes concentrationGuard - riposte immune, AA increase (tower shield)Inq - group curesSk - another form of rescueTemplar - aegolism into groupwide buff + increasing what it doesFury - raidwide buffWhat I would be thrilled with is remove the 'empty off hand' requirement from the wisdom line. We'll basically just be getting some double attack and lunge reversal.  And we can't put all our points in there anyway because it's almost essential to have STR/AGI maxed already. Just a suggestion, hopefully you read this

ROFL, warlock's epic is good for RoK? I'm sure u've never played warlock and never used warlock' epic.

Warlock has 3 encouter AEs, which are affected by my epic. but just only ONE of that AE is useful.

• Amageddon - always useful on single target, whenever clicky on or not 
• Radiation - totally useless on single target, too low damage, too long casting, although clicky buff on.
• Absolution - Although buff on, (damage per casting time) is lower than any other single DD amd DoT.

As u see, only Amageddon is used on single target, no matter clicky on or not. That is, clicky improves our dps very very a bit on single target by only modified Apocalypse damage. ppl who don't know warlock think our clikcy is very good for single target. However, it's not true!. Our clicky buff is not totally useful, but close to useless. Ask to other warlock in ur guild, whether they cast Radiation or Absolution on single target while clicky on. Most of warlock will say they cast only Amageddon. If some warlock says they cast Absolution, they are one of two types, who don't know his class well, or who have high casting time modifier and very low reuse time modifier.

And warlock proc buff is funny too. warlock are dpser, but our proc focus on survival , not dps. It's ok if  that proc works well. However, I just found I can't cast AE fully on grp mobs without pally's amend.  Warlock with epic should cast AE in same order as without epic. If not, u die anyway. Yeah.. u can not die with full nuke of AE. but u must know it's up to ur luck.  As u know, all of grp encounter(except grp mob in PR(tier1)) in RoK raid die in 5-10 sec, How many proc triggers in 10 sec? rofl. it's totally up to ur luck!.  If  grp encounter dehate proc is clicky having 30sec reuse. it'll be more useful. Yeah. I know it is hard to put two clicky effect in one item.. but anyway it's not impossible. buff can be clicked by examining epic dehate can be used by using epic.

Anyway, I want to suggest Dev should examine our epic more closely. Warlock epic does not work like as other thinks. It looks enough good at a glance.  But if u use it, u'll find it's not. our epic should be changed, not only dumbfire, but also clicky.

[Maveric_LOL]

Where is the +shield effectivness/ +block / +parry on the paladin epic?. Its on all of the other fighter epics IN ADDITION to their effects, why do paladins get none? We dont need a higher dps weapon, we are asking for a slightly better tanking weapon.

 If you dont want to add +shield effectivness/ +block / +parry because we get 10% dmg reduction & heal return thats fine but at least give us a nice effect that modifies an AA/spell like some of the other epics, we have been campaigning for ages to have the 50% limitation on Divine Aura removed and the timer lowered, or to have our death save ancient teaching modified, seriously a death save thats up for 3 miniutes hasnt been scaled for level at all, stifles on termination and has a 30 miniute recast? come on...

[Snarks]

Alarick0 wrote:

I would have to say that the entire Inquisitor community who has made countless posts on the several different forums knows the inner workings of their class than you do Snarks.While you do have a solid understanding of the game, you do not have a solid understanding of Inquisitors.The simple fact that you say the proc should stay as it is proves that.It's only useful on one encounter, Pawbuster, and if you need help with that encounter, you obviously do not have your mythical.Please stop calling for the nerf bat, and let us finally have something useful on our mythical.

I think the inquisitor community whining about how the group cure clickie sucks more than proves that this collective knows the inner workings of their class less than I do.You, especially, clearly know very little about your class.Of course not every proc is going to be useful at all times. You don't know what fights are going to be coming in the next expansion (Or later in this one). The mythical as a whole is extremely powerful as I listed it. If you are so blind with hatred for your past mythical that no fragment of it can remain the same then I cannot help you.What would make you happy? An effect that raises verdict trigger to 99% so that your guild can actually clear content?Get out of my face

[MrCartoon69]

Any chance illus could get a damage proc on the weapon and some sort of power drain back that was all taken away a while ago?

[Alarick0]

I'm not the only with these views on the Inquisitor mythical.Maybe if you spent a fraction of the  time that the entire Inquisitor community has spent playing the class you would actually understand how bad the mythical in it's old form is.Run ACT, do some testing, and you will see that it's junk as it is now, before the changes.Saying that the mythical will be useful in new encounters yet to be released to the game is total BS, any large new content is still months away at best.Mind your own business and mind your own class before you embarrass yourself further.

[Snarks]

Alarick0 wrote:

I'm not the only with these views on the Inquisitor mythical.Maybe if you spent a fraction of the  time that the entire Inquisitor community has spent playing the class you would actually understand how bad the mythical in it's old form is.Run ACT, do some testing, and you will see that it's junk as it is now, before the changes.Saying that the mythical will be useful in new encounters yet to be released to the game is total BS, any large new content is still months away at best.Mind your own business and mind your own class before you embarrass yourself further.

please go read my post again before spouting more irrelevant nonsense its obvious you must have read only 2 words out of the whole thing and drawn some emotionally driven conclusion lol

[Alarick0]

I read you post just fine Snark, and i still believe that the Inquisitor community knows what's better for our class than you do.

[hisawat]

Snarkq@Unrest wrote:

Clerics: Templar (Defensive Buffs/Heals) Ability Change: Same Proc: Same "Clicky": permanent buff on single target. Group only. 5% chance to reflect 50% of damage taken on attacker. Inquisitor (Offensive buffs/Heals) Ability Change: All detriments to fanaticism are removed Proc: Same as it is now. "Clicky": 2 minute recast. When weapon is clicked it starts a heroic opportunity (Unique one - like in K'Dal). There are 3 versions. A solo one that gives you 20% casting speed increase for 2 minutes. The trio version requires a Priest, a Scout, and a Mage to progress. This one gives a 2 minute buff that "ticks" a full group cure every 30 seconds. It also grants 10 haste, 10 dps, 10 melee and 5 spell double attack to the group. The last HO requires all 4 archetypes to advance and grants hostile spell immunity to the group for 2 minutes and grants 40% incombat runspeed. This makes the group immune to damage shields of epics (but somehow not immune to aoes or script based spells). The first HO would be the most common (45%), the second one would be the next most common (35%) and the last one would be the least common (20%). Druids Warden (Cures / Heals) Ability Change: Tranquility (cure thingy) becomes group wide. Proc: Procs on beneficial spells. Group takes 10% less elemental damage and resists are increased by 1k "Clicky": Places a 4k ward on the target (group only). The single target regen "fills up" this ward, and nothing else can. It does not dispell when it reaches 0. This way, regens are not being useless even when the tank is at full health. This also balances the awful disparity between regens and wards. Fury (Offensive Buffs[dps]/Heals) Ability Change: Fae Immolation will now proc off any attack, and triggers are increased to 10. Damage is doubled, but each proc has a chance to deal damage to the group. Proc: 100% chance on hostile spell to heal group for 300 and deal 200 damage. 5% chance (1. on hostile spell to increase group hostile spell dmg base by 8% for 20 seconds. "Clicky": *Same as it is now - Places buff on target that increases spell/heal relative to amount of your last damage spell* Shaman Mystic (Defensive Buffs/Heals) Ability Change: Single target dps debuff now lowers the targets maximum debuff allowance by an addition 10% dps and haste Proc: On beneficial spell reduces damage taken by 5-10% for 20 seconds. "Clicky": Placed on player. Group only. On successful block, dodge, or parry targets parry is increased by 5% for 10 seconds. Defiler (Offensive Buffs[dps]/Heals)* Ability Change: Bane of Warding now wards attackers (Like Templar Mark line). Proc: Procs off spells. 50% increased spell damage (base). Dispelled when defiler casts a beneficial spell. "Clicky": Raidwide. Single target gains 25% casting speed, 25% recovery and 10% reuse. Defiler shares the same bonus. I believe with these changes I have succeeded in capturing the "vision" of each class with their mythical, as well as providing much needed "smoothing out" and balancing of classes to make them all viable on the complex endgame raid encounters we are seeing. There are also some unique opportunities seized like embracing the under-utilized HO system. *I listed the defiler as Offensive Buffs because this is clearly the vision for the class. Over the last 3 years they have failed to define Defilers correctly. They have become a staple in MT groups because of their HP buffs and Tendrils of Terror. Yet at the same time they give defilers DPS abilities. Its [Removed for Content] poor design, and the mythicals offer a unique chance to correct it.

As an inquisitor, I like your idea basically, but not the proc staying same.Good post.

[Eristher]

Snarkq@Unrest wrote:

Basically instead of forming a good argument, you are QQing all over this threadWow, starting with a personal attack is so wise and mature, good start. Look, I have a pretty solid understanding of the game. I think raiding since tier5 and playing numerous classes along the way have given me the experience necessary to present my opinion in this thread.Nice idea, why didnt you tried it earlier? It would have been more constructive. But dont start boasting with your experience, i think lots of people here are playing for long enough to know what their class need, and some people takes a longer time to understand than others Inquisitors are beastly healers that can solo heal any fight in the game and can certainly manage curing (Atleast ours can).Oho, a try at personnal attack, fun. I have never said we cant, but that this version of our epic would make things easier on the less interesting aspect of our  job, i mean chain clicking cure because we are alone. But as i have said, and i'm sure i'm not the only one, with 3 healers/curers in group, why would a templar be reduced to be the healer bot of the group when they can share the burden of curing with other group healers. I think when designing mythicals you need to look at the purpose of a class before you try and fill holes in usefulness. The bard weapons are a good display of this; They buff their respective specialties (Mages/Melee) very well. The mage ones supply better pets to the summoners, better buffs for the enchanters, and better dps for the sorcerers. Similarly, the fighter mythicals give better tanking ability to the guardians and brawlers.100% agree on this point. So who feels unhappy with their mythical?Mmmmh, inquis and i dont think you dare say its not deserved. By in large the most vocal classes have been those who's mythicals do not support their role. Berzerkers wanted tanking ability - not DPS. Paladins wanted aggro control - not heal buffs. When some classes get their "purpose" augmented even further, those classes who struggle to define themselves get left in the dust. As we inquis do. We are offered a good opportunity to have some defining ability for us, but a handful of people with superior knowledge of the game think the opposite. Concerning the healer epics, I think its easy to see why most people considered the mystic one overpowered. It gave the best DPS buffs to the group and the greatest healing ability. Maybe in your opinion its overpowered, but i never saw any problem when someone gets something cool to help the. Nice for them, and imo its a good thing for the raid they are in. Why arent you happy to see some good things for other people ? Ignoring the fact that you would be offended if your mythical offered supplemental bonuses to items (like the bloodthirsty choker) which are desirable for a reason, taking into account what I've said already I would design the priest mythicals the following way:The thing is that it was not proposed to us, you're the only one saying such thing as offering inquis some 10 DPS increase proc on spell and CA like if we were a living choker that heal too, but thats on another forum and you got replied but did not listened. Clerics: Templar (Defensive Buffs/Heals) Ability Change: Same Proc: Same "Clicky": permanent buff on single target. Group only. 5% chance to reflect 50% of damage taken on attacker.Ok, so you're saying to devs: please dont change anything on my epic you did a good job on it but the others epics effects are not good, i know better on every healing classes job so listen to me. Good strategy. Inquisitor (Offensive buffs/Heals) Ability Change: All detriments to fanaticism are removedNot bad, was proposed but not accepted by SOE already. Proc: Same as it is now.Why not, we got used to have a useless proc and i didnt even asked to change it. "Clicky": 2 minute recast. When weapon is clicked it starts a heroic opportunity (Unique one - like in K'Dal). There are 3 versions. A solo one that gives you 20% casting speed increase for 2 minutes. The trio version requires a Priest, a Scout, and a Mage to progress. This one gives a 2 minute buff that "ticks" a full group cure every 30 seconds. It also grants 10 haste, 10 dps, 10 melee and 5 spell double attack to the group. The last HO requires all 4 archetypes to advance and grants hostile spell immunity to the group for 2 minutes and grants 40% incombat runspeed. This makes the group immune to damage shields of epics (but somehow not immune to aoes or script based spells). The first HO would be the most common (45%), the second one would be the next most common (35%) and the last one would be the least common (20%). So in your opinion we should have a Epic Heroic Opportunity? Not bad, but why does the triggered effect are close to what you templars already have on your epic, except that you dont need another specific class to activate it, just need a simple casting of a beneficial spell? Except of course that we can only have one effect at the same time whereas your epic gives you the ability to choose when you want some effect to be active, or even keep up the self AE immune and casting speed bonus up all the time. So we should be happy to have a effect we doesnt even know in advance what it will be? Really reliable, not speaking of when you dont have the necessary class in group ( which was a problem of our previous clickie), and that they may not complete the HO in time because its none of their business. I dont think that asking inquis to be happy with a clickie which is highly dependant on other people good will and rapidity is a good thing. I agree that the trio and quatuor version are nice but as i said too highly dependant on others group members, and imo most of the time we would have a solo OP finished which is a diminished version of your Impenetrable Faith proc you can keep up all the time and makes you stun immune at the same time. In the better case: we can ask the raid leader to always gives us the good classes in our group, even if some other group lacks what those classes could gives them when you lack people, ask those group member to bow to our will and keeps on checking the HO wheel to pop to allow us to use our epic for some crazy buff they have 45% or 20% to activate that you think is less overpowered than a clickie group cure . So if the good OP doesnt procs, they have been checking all the fight long for nothing and our click would have been useless for them.It would only makes inquis booted from raids because of unreliability, too high demand on cooperation from other classes and lead the melee DPS scout class to have a templar in their group because he more or less offers the same thing but reliably and with more survivability for the group without asking them to help the inquis in doing his job.  I wont comment on your others propositions, i'm not so presomptuous as to tell people that i know better their job than they do, or than the devs do, so i'll let others classes comment if they feel the need to. I believe with these changes I have succeeded in capturing the "vision" of each class with their mythical, as well as providing much needed "smoothing out" and balancing of classes to make them all viable on the complex endgame raid encounters we are seeing. There are also some unique opportunities seized like embracing the under-utilized HO system.Ok, so if its so amazing why not applying it to templars mythical and let us have something we inquis all agree on saying its useful.Thanks for playing, try again.Borgrim

[Snarks]

Borgrim@Runnyeye wrote:

Snarkq@Unrest wrote:

Basically instead of forming a good argument, you are QQing all over this threadWow, starting with a personal attack is so wise and mature, good start. Theres nothing personal about it. This is what you are doing. Look, I have a pretty solid understanding of the game. I think raiding since tier5 and playing numerous classes along the way have given me the experience necessary to present my opinion in this thread.Nice idea, why didnt you tried it earlier? It would have been more constructive. But dont start boasting with your experience, i think lots of people here are playing for long enough to know what their class need, and some people takes a longer time to understand than othersI'm pointing this out only because defensive inquisitors like yourself refuse to have a conversation and are being completely unreasonable. I don't think many of the inquisitors stating opinions in this thread have a concrete grasp on designing items for this game and the questions that need to be asked (And answered). Inquisitors are beastly healers that can solo heal any fight in the game and can certainly manage curing (Atleast ours can).Oho, a try at personnal attack, fun. I have never said we cant, but that this version of our epic would make things easier on the less interesting aspect of our  job, i mean chain clicking cure because we are alone. But as i have said, and i'm sure i'm not the only one, with 3 healers/curers in group, why would a templar be reduced to be the healer bot of the group when they can share the burden of curing with other group healers.Again, nothing personal. curing = less interesting? They already combined them. Basically I am hearing that you want a complete e-zmode experience with the game. The  curing IS THE HARD PART of almost all end game encounters (Like avatars, tangrin, and Trak'Anon). Trivializing this in turn trivializes the encounter. Its like you don't even realize this. Also when do you have 3 healers in a group, this is confusing to me. We average 6 healers per raid..? I think when designing mythicals you need to look at the purpose of a class before you try and fill holes in usefulness. The bard weapons are a good display of this; They buff their respective specialties (Mages/Melee) very well. The mage ones supply better pets to the summoners, better buffs for the enchanters, and better dps for the sorcerers. Similarly, the fighter mythicals give better tanking ability to the guardians and brawlers.100% agree on this point. There is nothing intuitive about INQUISITOR=GROUP CURE. This is very poor design. If you disagree on this, then we do not agree. So who feels unhappy with their mythical?Mmmmh, inquis and i dont think you dare say its not deserved.This was a Rhetorical question. The people that are unhappy with their mythical are those that do not fill a gap. Curing does not fill a gap for inquisitors. Unless you are extremely lazy or a very poor healer. WHy are high end raiding inquisitors saying No to this change? It's not just me, obviously. Because they want something intuitive and cool, not something e-zmode. By in large the most vocal classes have been those who's mythicals do not support their role. Berzerkers wanted tanking ability - not DPS. Paladins wanted aggro control - not heal buffs. When some classes get their "purpose" augmented even further, those classes who struggle to define themselves get left in the dust. As we inquis do. We are offered a good opportunity to have some defining ability for us, but a handful of people with superior knowledge of the game think the opposite.There is nothing "defining" about a group cure. If you think this is defining, then you raid with the wrong people. Plain and simple. Defining would be spirit tap. Master 2 pets. Flurry attacks. Theres a massive difference here. Concerning the healer epics, I think its easy to see why most people considered the mystic one overpowered. It gave the best DPS buffs to the group and the greatest healing ability. Maybe in your opinion its overpowered, but i never saw any problem when someone gets something cool to help the. Nice for them, and imo its a good thing for the raid they are in. Why arent you happy to see some good things for other people ? This is the problem with your argument. You never strive for balance. The problem with the mystic mythical is that it DEVALUED YOUR CLASS. You can't see this?This line alone should make me completely give up talking to you, but alas..: Ignoring the fact that you would be offended if your mythical offered supplemental bonuses to items (like the bloodthirsty choker) which are desirable for a reason, taking into account what I've said already I would design the priest mythicals the following way:The thing is that it was not proposed to us, you're the only one saying such thing as offering inquis some 10 DPS increase proc on spell and CA like if we were a living choker that heal too, but thats on another forum and you got replied but did not listened. I can't even decipher this. I like to think I read and communicate in understandable english, but this is beyond my capacity. Clerics: Templar (Defensive Buffs/Heals) Ability Change: Same Proc: Same "Clicky": permanent buff on single target. Group only. 5% chance to reflect 50% of damage taken on attacker.Ok, so you're saying to devs: please dont change anything on my epic you did a good job on it but the others epics effects are not good, i know better on every healing classes job so listen to me. Good strategy.Look down at my inquisitor brainstorming(key word btw). Then look at the templar epic. Unneeded group hit point bonus. Unneeded haste. Unneeded stun immunity. All the templar mythical really gives is casting haste. I find myself not using the templar mythical from time to time, because its just not that good. I'm sorry you seem to think its some godly gift from the heavens, but I assure you it is not. For the sake of my argument though, I thought it best to leave it be. I did change the clicky though, because it is complete garbage. Inquisitor (Offensive buffs/Heals) Ability Change: All detriments to fanaticism are removedNot bad, was proposed but not accepted by SOE already. Proc: Same as it is now.Why not, we got used to have a useless proc and i didnt even asked to change it. "Clicky": 2 minute recast. When weapon is clicked it starts a heroic opportunity (Unique one - like in K'Dal). There are 3 versions. A solo one that gives you 20% casting speed increase for 2 minutes. The trio version requires a Priest, a Scout, and a Mage to progress. This one gives a 2 minute buff that "ticks" a full group cure every 30 seconds. It also grants 10 haste, 10 dps, 10 melee and 5 spell double attack to the group. The last HO requires all 4 archetypes to advance and grants hostile spell immunity to the group for 2 minutes and grants 40% incombat runspeed. This makes the group immune to damage shields of epics (but somehow not immune to aoes or script based spells). The first HO would be the most common (45%), the second one would be the next most common (35%) and the last one would be the least common (20%). So in your opinion we should have a Epic Heroic Opportunity? Not bad, but why does the triggered effect are close to what you templars already have on your epic, except that you dont need another specific class to activate it, just need a simple casting of a beneficial spell?The idea here is that an inquisitor can achieve the same effect as the templar -most- of the time. The rest of the time, a much more powerful alternative is offered. This makes it vastly superior to the templar mythical.  Except of course that we can only have one effect at the same time whereas your epic gives you the ability to choose when you want some effect to be active, or even keep up the self AE immune and casting speed bonus up all the time. So we should be happy to have a effect we doesnt even know in advance what it will be? Really reliable, not speaking of when you dont have the necessary class in group ( which was a problem of our previous clickie), and that they may not complete the HO in time because its none of their business.The idea behind epics is that you are supposed to be cooperating with your raid to accomplish something. I fail to grasp the mentality that a mythical should be completely selfish. If you don't have the necessary class in the group then I guess it could be coded to not allow those opportunities. But I like to think that the group loses out on not having a certain archetype (Albeit very rarely given the % chance). There are 6 fighters each feeling they deserve a raid spot. Most guilds need 2 at maximum. I think this is a unique way to approach solving this problem. I dont think that asking inquis to be happy with a clickie which is highly dependant on other people good will and rapidity is a good thing. I agree that the trio and quatuor version are nice but as i said too highly dependant on others group members, and imo most of the time we would have a solo OP finished which is a diminished version of your Impenetrable Faith proc you can keep up all the time and makes you stun immune at the same time. I think you are very ovverrating the Templar proc. Like I said, i don't even use it some times. Not to mention 20 self casting haste absolutely and without question pales in comparison to the rest of the inquisitor mythical I proposed.In the better case: we can ask the raid leader to always gives us the good classes in our group, even if some other group lacks what those classes could gives them when you lack people, ask those group member to bow to our will and keeps on checking the HO wheel to pop to allow us to use our epic for some crazy buff they have 45% or 20% to activate that you think is less overpowered than a clickie group cure . So if the good OP doesnt procs, they have been checking all the fight long for nothing and our click would have been useless for them.The point of all this is to create an intuitive and dynamic raid environment that should be more fun for you to play in than a "click my epic every 15 seconds and zzz" kind of fight. Are you really lazy or something? I think all designers should strive to make their players thing and react to encounters in a way that is a least tedius as possible.It would only makes inquis booted from raids because of unreliability, too high demand on cooperation from other classes and lead the melee DPS scout class to have a templar in their group because he more or less offers the same thing but reliably and with more survivability for the group without asking them to help the inquis in doing his job.  I wont comment on your others propositions, i'm not so presomptuous as to tell people that i know better their job than they do, or than the devs do, so i'll let others classes comment if they feel the need to.I guarantee you the raid would not get so frustrated at the fantastic mythical that they would just boot the inquisitor. Thats absolutely ridiculous. Even without your mythical inquisitors are flat out one of the best healing classes (Certainly above both druids). You are exaggerating your plight so bad how can you expect me to take you seriously? I believe with these changes I have succeeded in capturing the "vision" of each class with their mythical, as well as providing much needed "smoothing out" and balancing of classes to make them all viable on the complex endgame raid encounters we are seeing. There are also some unique opportunities seized like embracing the under-utilized HO system.Ok, so if its so amazing why not applying it to templars mythical and let us have something we inquis all agree on saying its useful.You do realize that there was no inquis agreement on the click cure right? In fact some of the inquisitors that raid significantly harder encounters than you (And require more skill/attention -NO OFFENSE PLEASE-) were against this idea. You are drawing innacurate conclusions to serve your own strange mission to make your class as easy as possible to play. I can only help but wonder why this is?Thanks for playing, try again.Thanks for playing, try again.BorgrimSnarkq

comments in red

[Traxor]

mr23sgte wrote:

Glad to see nothings changed

Did you forget about the Monks??

QFE sir, QFE

[Traxor]

Snarkq@Unrest wrote:

Inquisitor (Offensive buffs/Heals) Ability Change: All detriments to fanaticism are removed Proc: Same as it is now. "Clicky": 2 minute recast. When weapon is clicked it starts a heroic opportunity (Unique one - like in K'Dal). There are 3 versions. A solo one that gives you 20% casting speed increase for 2 minutes. The trio version requires a Priest, a Scout, and a Mage to progress. This one gives a 2 minute buff that "ticks" a full group cure every 30 seconds. It also grants 10 haste, 10 dps, 10 melee and 5 spell double attack to the group. The last HO requires all 4 archetypes to advance and grants hostile spell immunity to the group for 2 minutes and grants 40% incombat runspeed. This makes the group immune to damage shields of epics (but somehow not immune to aoes or script based spells). The first HO would be the most common (45%), the second one would be the next most common (35%) and the last one would be the least common (20%).

And btw snark.Thats the most inventive directional push anyone has come up with on this entire thread. I applaud you.great brainstorming.

[Snarks]

nvm dont want to get off topic

[Eristher]

Just one thing before you start again trying to convince people you are right, who is the inquisitor who said he doesnt agree on the clickie group cure ? We are only trying to defend something we'd like to see implemented against you and a few others people who feels nice enough to show us the way in our everyday healing job.I wont quote your whole argumentation, it would take too long a post for that, but you seems really passionate about class balance, and yes chain clicking my cure on some fights is not really what is the more fun in an inquis job, but you dont want to understand, thats why this group cure clickie can be really cool for us, its situational because we dont always need to spam cure and it allows us on some fight to use our class defining ability Devotion we cant use when we need to chain cure.But i like you "i know better than everyone else" attitude, brings some fun in the debate, even if its counter productive.Borgrim

[Snarks]

Borgrim@Runnyeye wrote:

Just one thing before you start again trying to convince people you are right, who is the inquisitor who said he doesnt agree on the clickie group cure ? We are only trying to defend something we'd like to see implemented against you and a few others people who feels nice enough to show us the way in our everyday healing job.I wont quote your whole argumentation, it would take too long a post for that, but you seems really passionate about class balance, and yes chain clicking my cure on some fights is not really what is the more fun in an inquis job, but you dont want to understand, thats why this group cure clickie can be really cool for us, its situational because we dont always need to spam cure and it allows us on some fight to use our class defining ability Devotion we cant use when we need to chain cure.But i like you "i know better than everyone else" attitude, brings some fun in the debate, even if its counter productive.Borgrim

I won't even try to hide it. I am always right. It's a hard burden to bear, but I think I do it with grace.I'm sorry but regardless of whether or not legions of inquisitor scrubs want e-z mode healing (I can keep a group topped off, cured, and myself stifled!), its just a very poor design direction. Inquisitors are more than just healing. They should be about buffing dps and BARELY BEING ABLE TO SOLO HEAL A GROUP. If an inquisitor can solo heal a group easy, then what is the point of druids? shamans? sure the best inquisitors should be able to solo heal a group, but this would make it possible by just slapping my [Removed for Content] on the keyboard (which is quite large and unwieldy btw). If you want to buff DPS, you cant also heal like a pro. Its just silly to have 24 classes and give one the ability to do that. Sorry.If you can't understand why, then you really need to re-evaluate your actual interest in the design integrity of this game.