Open ALL Classes

[Wytie]

Simple answer to this heated discussion..

 Exiles has cookies and cookies > ALL.

 That pretty much sums it up tbh

[Izzypop]

Shadow_Viper wrote:

Izzypop wrote:

There are only 2 ways of changing this.#1) Go Monty Hall on city factions.  Behind door #1 PvP armor that's better than VP gear.  Behind door #2 Upgrade your fabeled epic to a Mythical for a fistfull of PvP tokens.  Behind door #3 Bitter hatred from the bulk of your level 80 raiders as everything they have worked for becomes worthless next to the power of revive zerging each other at the KP docks for tokens.#2) Open all classes to City factions.  There are a lot of exiles who don't want to be exiled, but are stuck being in exile because they want to raid end game content.  Given the choice of raiding with all classes in a city or haven many of them would choose a city instead, and some would stay for the challenge of being the server's underdogs in haven. 

Those are not the only two ways to address the exiled issue. All SOE really needs to do would be.

1) Restrict Exiled players from entering raid zones.

2) Remove the creature comforts from haven, bank, broker, merchants, crafting stations, etc.

3) Permanently ban the accounts of every player who keeps a player in exile for more than 1 week.

The exiled faction should be a brief rest stop when betraying from one city to another(example: Moving from Qeynos to Freeport). Don't listen to SOE when they say exile is a fully recognized faction.  My opinion matters more than SOE's

If you go through with your 1st 2 steps you may as well include my step 3 because they will all quit anyways.Exile is not an original faction when the game launched 4 years ago, but it is a fully recognized faction by SOE.  Exile has just as much of a right to exist as the 2 city factions.If not being present 4 years ago when the game launched=2nd class player why not restrict Fae, frogs, & Sarnaks from entering raid zones?  Better yet go through with your idea, but force all Fae, frogs, & Sarnaks to remain permanently exiled.You know who else was not present 4 years ago when the game went live? City factions.Restrict single alignment city factions of PvP servers from entering raid zones.Spit in the face of your player base, ban everybody's account on pvp servers, & salt the earth while you are at it.As amazingly incompetent as SOE can be even they are not dumb enough to destroy the most successful faction of the PvP servers for having the audacity to succeed where others have failed.   St Jude says "Give up the cause Skree"Players don't like making raids more difficult on themselves.  The problem is not that raiding in a city is impossible.  The problem is making things more difficult on your raid force is the antithesis of successful raiding.  Raiding in a city faction is making things more difficult on your raid force and therefor it is the antithesis of successful raiding.  Giving access to all classes would give exiles the choice of moving to a city without making things more difficult on themselves when raiding.  Given that choice most of exile would go back to a city and haven would once again be the home of the few brave souls who remain in haven for PVP not raidgear.  If your guild doesn't  have what it takes to beat VP getting access to all classes won't get a guild their epics, it will just put you on equal terms with the guilds that can. This is about choice not force.Encourage exiles to leave the hole, don't beat them with the nerfbat until the quit the game.  Make it their choice to leave.Give city factions a fighting chance.  As long as city factions have 1 hand tied behind their back serious raiders who will put in 40 hours a week will pretty much be forced to remain in exile.

[Brimacombe]

     First of all: I roleplay.       I don't run around acting like some freak shoehorned into a boustier from the Ren-fest, but I have personalities for each character that are not simply me+power.  My High Elven Illusionist is intelligent and arrogant.  Shortcut to making a distinct personality to be sure, but I think there need to be more High Elves that play that archetype.  My Gnome Warden is a dirty old man with a thing for heart shaped pillows.  My Wood Elf ranger hates Freeport to the point of losing his goodness over it.  My Kerra Conjuror is a big jerk.  My High Elven monk is having an identity crisis.  Lastly, my Fae Templar is the highest expresssion of good nature and holiness without being a charicature.  I know the lore of the game, and have played since the release of Ruins of Kunark.     The idea of a Paladin and a Necromancer being friends is stupid, and reduces the game to a collection of stats.  I am aware that pvp does this by nature, but some people like immersion.     Clearly, the reason some people want to open all classes is apparent.  It is a spirit of removing anything viewed by them as inconsequential that might stand in their way of loot.  I think powergaming is not an option on a PVP server, but tunnel-vision is bad for you.       The PVP servers are, by nature of the lore, a superior expression of the conflict between Qeynos and Freeport for the future.  There is a certain blind boneheadedness to removing the aspect of good and evil from a server that is so exactly good versus evil it pains me to stress something so ridiculously, blatantly obvious.     The Developers have since the outset of EQ1 striven to provide an alternate reality complete with culture and history.  After nine years, I happily do not see that as changing.  As such, I am not replying to deflect what I feel is a threat to my play-style, Spyder, but to try to explain what is in front of everyone's face.     There is a difference between using fine words and a fine use of words,

[Bloodfa]

Wytie wrote:

Simple answer to this heated discussion..

 Exiles has cookies and cookies > ALL.

 That pretty much sums it up tbh

You [Removed for Content] get cookies?!?!?!

[Wytie]

Bloodfang@Nagafen wrote:

Wytie wrote:

Simple answer to this heated discussion..

 Exiles has cookies and cookies > ALL.

 That pretty much sums it up tbh

You [I cannot control my vocabulary] get cookies?!?!?!

Yep we use dough made from the cremated bodies of zerging city folk, so you can imagine that makes plenty of cookies

[Izzypop]

Psychadeli@Venekor wrote:

     First of all: I roleplay.       I don't run around acting like some freak shoehorned into a boustier from the Ren-fest  Of course not real men wear kilts, drink ale, and bodice dive at the Ren-fest, but I have personalities for each character that are not simply me+power.  My High Elven Illusionist is intelligent and arrogant.  Shortcut to making a distinct personality to be sure, but I think there need to be more High Elves that play that archetype.  My Gnome Warden is a dirty old man with a thing for heart shaped pillows.  My Wood Elf ranger hates Freeport to the point of losing his goodness over it.  My Kerra Conjuror is a big jerk.  My High Elven monk is having an identity crisis.  Lastly, my Fae Templar is the highest expresssion of good nature and holiness without being a charicature.  I know the lore of the game, and have played since the release of Ruins of Kunark.     The idea of a Paladin and a Necromancer being friends is stupid Nobody said they have to be friends, and reduces the game to a collection of stats.  I am aware that pvp does this by nature, but some people like immersion.     Clearly, the reason some people want to open all classes is apparent.  It is a spirit of removing anything viewed by them as inconsequential that might stand in their way of loot.  I think powergaming is not an option on a PVP server Powergaming is the popular option on a PvP server.  Red servers are more MMO than RPG  Anybody who would disagree with me can start by writing an essay on how it is character for them to corpse hump someone's body while hailing a pet named hahpwned, but tunnel-vision is bad for you.       The PVP servers are, by nature of the lore, a superior expression of the conflict between Qeynos and Freeport for the future.  There is a certain blind boneheadedness to removing the aspect of good and evil from a server that is so exactly good versus evil it pains me to stress something so ridiculously, blatantly obvious.     The Developers have since the outset of EQ1 striven to provide an alternate reality complete with culture and history.  After nine years, I happily do not see that as changing.  As such, I am not replying to deflect what I feel is a threat to my play-style, Spyder, but to try to explain what is in front of everyone's face.     There is a difference between using fine words and a fine use of words,

The single alignment factions is a noble PvP experiment, but it has failed.  As long as haven remains an easier way to raid city factions will always be 2nd rate.  The options are few and grim.Do nothing and continue to have haven be the powerhouse faction.SOE likes this because it's the least likely to cause people to quit the gameDestroy haven and loose huge chunk of your most dedicated end game player base.Good luck convincing SOE to loose moneyEnd the single faction raiding experience.It's a noble RP experience, but is it really worth the cost of a terrible faction balance?Looking at the downsides of all options all classes all factions is the lesser of 3 evils.

[Sightless]

Paikis wrote:

No one made it out of the first raid instances (if you exclude the Body Count/Voices/everyone else raiding alliance which has killed everything up to Overking, and Liebegarde who I'm pretty sure were up to Leviathan?) because there is too much dead weight in the raids. Too many people who are too willing to let other people carry the raids. Nobody even bothers to time AEs in the factions, and yet it's having all classes which make exile's able to kill things? No.

This is a gear-based game, and faction players (on venekor) have easier access to better gear than the exiles do. Total count of all VP set gear in haven: 1. It isn't better gear, it isnt all classes, its having more people who can pull their own weight that makes raiding easier in exile.

You were among the people who couldn't make it to VP in faction. I'm curious, did you become a brilliant raid genius the second you exiled? /shakes head

[Wytie]

It always turns to this, exiles vs factions.

Thats the point, the discussion becomes pointless, because everyone will have their very own perspective, which they use to define their opinion and its all relative.......

[Shadow_Viper]

Izzypop wrote:

Shadow_Viper wrote:

Izzypop wrote:

There are only 2 ways of changing this.#1) Go Monty Hall on city factions.  Behind door #1 PvP armor that's better than VP gear.  Behind door #2 Upgrade your fabeled epic to a Mythical for a fistfull of PvP tokens.  Behind door #3 Bitter hatred from the bulk of your level 80 raiders as everything they have worked for becomes worthless next to the power of revive zerging each other at the KP docks for tokens.#2) Open all classes to City factions.  There are a lot of exiles who don't want to be exiled, but are stuck being in exile because they want to raid end game content.  Given the choice of raiding with all classes in a city or haven many of them would choose a city instead, and some would stay for the challenge of being the server's underdogs in haven. 

Those are not the only two ways to address the exiled issue. All SOE really needs to do would be.

1) Restrict Exiled players from entering raid zones.

2) Remove the creature comforts from haven, bank, broker, merchants, crafting stations, etc.

3) Permanently ban the accounts of every player who keeps a player in exile for more than 1 week. 

I think that is a bad idea, no reason for it.

The exiled faction should be a brief rest stop when betraying from one city to another(example: Moving from Qeynos to Freeport). Don't listen to SOE when they say exile is a fully recognized faction.  My opinion matters more than SOE's

I am aware of what SOE says, these are only my opinions and suggestions regarding the issues, nothing more. Where did I state my opinion matters more than SOE's?

Please remember that we all have our own opinions on the matter, no one opinion is more valid than another. Just because you may disagree with one person's opinion is no excuse to make obvious flamebait comments and try to put words in their mouth.

If you go through with your 1st 2 steps you may as well include my step 3 because they will all quit anyways.Exile is not an original faction when the game launched 4 years ago, but it is a fully recognized faction by SOE.  Exile has just as much of a right to exist as the 2 city factions.If not being present 4 years ago when the game launched=2nd class player why not restrict Fae, frogs, & Sarnaks from entering raid zones?  Better yet go through with your idea, but force all Fae, frogs, & Sarnaks to remain permanently exiled.You know who else was not present 4 years ago when the game went live? City factions.Restrict single alignment city factions of PvP servers from entering raid zones.Spit in the face of your player base, ban everybody's account on pvp servers, & salt the earth while you are at it.As amazingly incompetent as SOE can be even they are not dumb enough to destroy the most successful faction of the PvP servers for having the audacity to succeed where others have failed.   St Jude says "Give up the cause Skree"Players don't like making raids more difficult on themselves.  The problem is not that raiding in a city is impossible.  The problem is making things more difficult on your raid force is the antithesis of successful raiding.  Raiding in a city faction is making things more difficult on your raid force and therefor it is the antithesis of successful raiding.  Giving access to all classes would give exiles the choice of moving to a city without making things more difficult on themselves when raiding.  Given that choice most of exile would go back to a city and haven would once again be the home of the few brave souls who remain in haven for PVP not raidgear.  If your guild doesn't  have what it takes to beat VP getting access to all classes won't get a guild their epics, it will just put you on equal terms with the guilds that can. This is about choice not force. My suggestions are not forcing anyone to do anything.Encourage exiles to leave the hole, don't beat them with the nerfbat until the quit the game.  Make it their choice to leave. 

Give city factions a fighting chance.  As long as city factions have 1 hand tied behind their back serious raiders who will put in 40 hours a week will pretty much be forced to remain in exile.

Fact remains that without the option to betray on PVP servers, the exiled faction would've never been added. As I said, in my opinion it should be a brief rest stop between good and evil cities, not a faction for people to use in order to have easier raiding on PVP servers, I think PVP servers are about the added challenge. Combating against other players and raiding without all classes.

[Paikis]

Sightless wrote:

Paikis wrote:

No one made it out of the first raid instances (if you exclude the Body Count/Voices/everyone else raiding alliance which has killed everything up to Overking, and Liebegarde who I'm pretty sure were up to Leviathan?) because there is too much dead weight in the raids. Too many people who are too willing to let other people carry the raids. Nobody even bothers to time AEs in the factions, and yet it's having all classes which make exile's able to kill things? No.

This is a gear-based game, and faction players (on venekor) have easier access to better gear than the exiles do. Total count of all VP set gear in haven: 1. It isn't better gear, it isnt all classes, its having more people who can pull their own weight that makes raiding easier in exile.

You were among the people who couldn't make it to VP in faction. I'm curious, did you become a brilliant raid genius the second you exiled? /shakes head

How does the skill (or lack of) one single person have any effect on the outcome of a fight which depends on 24 players? When you see the Troubador consistantly in the top 5-6 on the parse, its not my fault the mob wasn't getting killed. That doesn't happen in Exile, there are alot more players on the raids who are actually worth being there. Faction raids are basically a waste of server bandwidth from my experience.

[goldfeesh641]

Eragahn@Nagafen wrote:

Jordin@Nagafen wrote:

The reason the Exiled faction has glowing shiny Mythicals is not all 24 classes. They are just the most hardcore and willing to make the effort, willing to raid 8 straight hours so every single person know their exact role in the encounter. They will set up a near perfect raid force with whom ever shows up to raid. The city factions do not. The city goes into PR with a seriously sub-par raid force and gives new meaning to FAIL. When your raid force goes in with one mage you end up lacking a lot of critical buffs/debuffs. Learn to make a good raid force. Don't bring 12 swashys to the raid. And don't give up after 2 wipes.There are no pity Mythicals. Only ones earned and one ganked.Citys: LEARN TO RAIDExile: Nice work

And I say you're an idiot if you believe that.   There are several raiding guilds in cities.  Now, I can't say anything for Q's because I loathe them and have no clue what Q guilds do.  I do, however, know that my guild (Betrayed) is dedicated to advancing.   You don't have to raid 24/7 to get better, advance, etc.   Yes, you do need learn the raids, etc.  But you also NEED every advantage you can get...like all classes.   If it weren't so, then more city guilds would have been in VP and have mythicals already.

This is the same old song and dance.   Fact is:  Exileds have access to all classes.  Exileds have advanced quicker because of this.   Exileds have advanced easier because of this. 

Give cities access to all classes, and we'll prove that we can advance easier as well.   That is the bottom line.   Just ask that one question.  If cities had access to all classes would it make raiding easier?   If you answer yes to this, then all your arguing is unfounded.  If you answer no to that, then your an idiot.

I highlighted the part that I think is important.  What you're saying is: it's possible, it may be a [Removed for Content], but it's possible.  That, alone, to me, says it's fine as it is.  Sure, exiles have the advantage of all the classes, but it is not the only route to the top, and yeah, it's harder, but you know what? Tough noogies, if you want it "easy" for raiding, go exile.

[Bloodfa]

Big question is: why is it that so many exiled players don't want cities to have the same grouping options?  Loss of a monopoly?  Loss of players back to faction?  Faction players possibly gearing up just the same? 

And any responses mentioning the word "lore" is going to get somebody a fat lip.

[Sorffats]

goldfeesh641 wrote:

Eragahn@Nagafen wrote:

Jordin@Nagafen wrote:

The reason the Exiled faction has glowing shiny Mythicals is not all 24 classes. They are just the most hardcore and willing to make the effort, willing to raid 8 straight hours so every single person know their exact role in the encounter. They will set up a near perfect raid force with whom ever shows up to raid. The city factions do not. The city goes into PR with a seriously sub-par raid force and gives new meaning to FAIL. When your raid force goes in with one mage you end up lacking a lot of critical buffs/debuffs. Learn to make a good raid force. Don't bring 12 swashys to the raid. And don't give up after 2 wipes.There are no pity Mythicals. Only ones earned and one ganked.Citys: LEARN TO RAIDExile: Nice work

And I say you're an idiot if you believe that.   There are several raiding guilds in cities.  Now, I can't say anything for Q's because I loathe them and have no clue what Q guilds do.  I do, however, know that my guild (Betrayed) is dedicated to advancing.   You don't have to raid 24/7 to get better, advance, etc.   Yes, you do need learn the raids, etc.  But you also NEED every advantage you can get...like all classes.   If it weren't so, then more city guilds would have been in VP and have mythicals already.

This is the same old song and dance.   Fact is:  Exileds have access to all classes.  Exileds have advanced quicker because of this.   Exileds have advanced easier because of this. 

Give cities access to all classes, and we'll prove that we can advance easier as well.   That is the bottom line.   Just ask that one question.  If cities had access to all classes would it make raiding easier?   If you answer yes to this, then all your arguing is unfounded.  If you answer no to that, then your an idiot.

I highlighted the part that I think is important.  What you're saying is: it's possible, it may be a [I cannot control my vocabulary], but it's possible.  That, alone, to me, says it's fine as it is.  Sure, exiles have the advantage of all the classes, but it is not the only route to the top, and yeah, it's harder, but you know what? Tough noogies, if you want it "easy" for raiding, go exile.

I've made bold and highlighted the part I want to expand on.  The point of this is, we don't WANT to go exiled.  We enjoy being a faction.  We enjoy the good vs evil RP that nagafen is.  I want to kill Q's and help my FP brothers and sisters.   I don't want to have more targets in pvp, there are plenty of Q's to kill.   I like having the amenities of the cities; aka: housing WITHIN a city, city faction tools (signets, pvp gear, etc.).   It's my right to have all the things offered to me in the cities AND be able to progress in this game as needed.  I shouldn't be required to join a faction I despise just to advance and progress in the tiers.

[Niou]

goldfeesh641 wrote:

I don't understand these arguments anymore, people are saying "we don't want to exile, cause... well, it's easy..." but also saying "we want the advantage that exiled people have!"  Seriously, if you want top-end raid gear, why NOT exile?  "Because everyone else is doing it and so I shouldn't" is the worst possible excuse I can think of.  You know what? supposedly Exiles won't get guild halls because they HAVE the best of PvP (SOE quote there), so once that comes out, what then, no one gets guild halls? everyone does so its 3 clone sides fighting each other with no one having any class edge in any situation because they all have the same classes?  That, at least to me, is not interesting, its clones fighting clones, and we all know how much episodes II and III of star wars sucked...

QFTIt's real easy to understand, each side has key classes needed for the hardest encounters, exiled pay a price to raid with both. What I don't understand is, what are the factions complaining about? Most of you haven't even been able to form up a serious raid for quite some time. Especially any Q's posting here, you've yet to even reach where leib got to, and yet your complaining about having no mythicals? Being exiled wont give you skill, or dedicated raiders; honestly, learn your place and move on.Araris

[dr4gonUK]

Exiles care more about loot than their fellow players, fact~

[goldfeesh641]

Bloodfang@Nagafen wrote:

Big question is: why is it that so many exiled players don't want cities to have the same grouping options?  Loss of a monopoly?  Loss of players back to faction?  Faction players possibly gearing up just the same? 

And any responses mentioning the word "lore" is going to get somebody a fat lip.

Would you prefer the mentioning of "immersion into the realm of good v evil and the thought that they are enemies"? Honestly, I'd be all for going back to the old system of leveling where you went archetype til 10, then class til 20, then subclass and require certain classes who exile to return to certain classes ("lawful" classes possibly) to create immersion.  Now that idea is extreme and not going to happen, and I realize that, so I'm not pushing for it whatsoever.  However, as far as the arguments stated above, why not ask "Why would SOE do that on release of the game, isn't that the point of an MMO, to get as much mudflationary items in the game that everyone ever can obtain on every server and special rulesets should not get in the way of that."?

[valkyriepc]

AoC has a culture pvp server where all races can group with each other, raid with each other and guild with each other, but cannot attack players of the same race. You can keep the factions on pvp servers the way they are. And keep the attackable the same way it is. All you have to do to fix the issue with those that wish to raid while in a faction is allow each faction to group with each other and function like a pve server, and only allow players to attack players of the opposite faction.

[Vlahkmaak]

With the exception of the insults across factions I generally like the direction this thread has taken.  I believe it demonstrates that all factions should be open to all classes.  I could care less if people want to exile - I just want more grouping options for pvp and pve - especially for raiding.  

[KannaWhoopass]

I have come to the conclusion that PvP has been abandoned as a failed experiment by SoE.

You will never see a red name post here.

You will never see a change of any siginficance that wasnt implemented for the PvE community.

The unending list of obvious flaws in the current state shows this more than if at login there was a logo stating "We dont care"

They would rather make card games , which im sure is a refreshig change for them as the results are easy to predict .

Every time they spam system message me that there is a LoN tournament i laugh at them.

Way to advertise yer granny poker , to a population leaving because the game they pay to play is broken.

I swear its like the blind leading the stupid.

Dont hold your breath !! 

[Warr]

Bloodfang@Nagafen wrote:

Big question is: why is it that so many exiled players don't want cities to have the same grouping options?  Loss of a monopoly?  Loss of players back to faction?  Faction players possibly gearing up just the same? 

And any responses mentioning the word "lore" is going to get somebody a fat lip.

That wouldn't make sense. Exiles are the ones who wanted it the most. Exiles wanted it so badly, they decided to do something about it instead of waiting on something to be done.Its the transition going back under the current ruleset and the lack of pvp freedom that we would have a problem with.

[Sprin]

Warren@Venekor wrote:

Bloodfang@Nagafen wrote:

Big question is: why is it that so many exiled players don't want cities to have the same grouping options?  Loss of a monopoly?  Loss of players back to faction?  Faction players possibly gearing up just the same? 

And any responses mentioning the word "lore" is going to get somebody a fat lip.

That wouldn't make sense. Exiles are the ones who wanted it the most. Exiles wanted it so badly, they decided to do something about it instead of waiting on something to be done.Its the transition going back under the current ruleset and the lack of pvp freedom that we would have a problem with.

There really is a simple explanation to all this... Full PVP gear + Mythicals / other raid drops = pwned exiles = exiles go back to cities cuz getting pwned in the face = no more exiles....  Sony doesnt want no exiles for some strange reason = will never happen...   case closed...

[Vindicare]

Winnter@Nagafen wrote:

There really is a simple explanation to all this... Full PVP gear + Mythicals / other raid drops = pwned exiles = exiles go back to cities cuz getting pwned in the face = no more exiles....  Sony doesnt want no exiles for some strange reason = will never happen...   case closed...

The "strange reason" is that the current Exile system works well enough on the blue servers, and they simply don't care at all about the PvP servers or their ruleset and balancing anymore. There is pretty much only one PvP server left - one of many servers, making the PvP crowd a ridiculous minority for SOE. And since EQ2 (and basically SOE as a whole, considering that by now they pretty much don't have a single healthy MMO to earn their millions) is in enough trouble the way it is, they surely have other priorities than balancing issues of a total minority on a special ruleset server. 2 1/2 years ago PvP was announced and meant to be a big deal, reviving EQ2 and all. But it failed (in terms of numbers), so it pretty much is SOE's unwanted child now.

[Jacquotte]

people have been raiding just fine through T5, T6, T7 (with T5/6 pre-pvp, still people have raided that after kosrelease) with a split class set, why do you suddenly want rangers running around freeport?

 i think it ruins the immersion and idea of war between good and evil to have all classes on both sides

are you wanting this because you cant succesfully raid T8?

or

 because of a lack of population (exile having their own sacred blue-server)?

[Faenril]

Corvena@Venekor wrote:

people have been raiding just fine through T5, T6, T7 (with T5/6 pre-pvp, still people have raided that after kosrelease) with a split class set, why do you suddenly want rangers running around freeport?

 i think it ruins the immersion and idea of war between good and evil to have all classes on both sides

are you wanting this because you cant succesfully raid T8?

or

 because of a lack of population (exile having their own sacred blue-server)?

Simple question to all the lore defenders/RPers (since you don't want to hear the "but it's like this on PVE servers" argument):Do you think Exiles fit the lore in their current state ?Does it fit the lore that Exiles build guilds of hundreds of players ? From lore perspective I would assume exiling means being banned from society.Does it fit the lore that there are all crafting facilities in their cave ?I don't want to nerf exiles fyi, just asking how do you feel they stand from lore perspective, since lore seems to be the holy grail...And to answer your question why ppl want all classes, at least from my point of view:1) T8 raids are harder than T7, at least KOS T72) The disparity between top raid gear and average group instance gear is wider, especially considering mythicals. There was nothing comparable to mythicals in tier 7. Ppl want their mythical for different reasons.3) T8 pvp sucks bad, so people look for another thing to do. When pvp sucks and you can't raid successfully, what's left ? lowbie twinking ? oh wait ...

[Bloodfa]

Corvena@Venekor wrote:

people have been raiding just fine through T5, T6, T7 (with T5/6 pre-pvp, still people have raided that after kosrelease) with a split class set, why do you suddenly want rangers running around freeport?

 i think it ruins the immersion and idea of war between good and evil to have all classes on both sides

are you wanting this because you cant succesfully raid T8?

or

 because of a lack of population (exile having their own sacred blue-server)?

People in factions can raid successfully in T5-T7.  With T8 toons and T8 gear.  As far as ruining immersion, what does?  Paladins fighting Paladins?  Because here's a little picture for ya: it already happens when exiles fight good classes.  And Shadowknights fighting Necros when exiles fight against evil characters.  It already happens.  And if exiles stroll into a city, it'll be Rangers fighting Templars.  So how does the immersion sit then?

I don't raid.  I don't ever plan on doing so.  I know plenty of people who do, however.  And if the ability to mix & match were given to cities like it is to exiles, some of those raiders may come back.  Leave Haven alone, so that those who want to stay can stay, but open it up so that factions can hope to regain some players.  Those players willing to let the servers continue to slowly asphyxiate themselves rather than change things due to an already broken 'lore' seem more than willing to cut off their noses to spite their faces.  To look around and say things are fine than to change and hope for the game to grow, I have to wonder.  What tier are you in?  The end-game one?  The one that is suppossed to be the one you strive for?  Because that's where it becomes severely unbalanced.

And unfortunately, I concur with the "they don't care" crowd.  This is a wish list, and hope only goes so far.  So I'm done with this thread. 

[Paikis]

Bloodfang@Nagafen wrote:

Leave Haven alone, so that those who want to stay can stay, but open it up so that factions can hope to regain some players. 

I don't think ANYONE disagrees with this line right here. the reason you see so many exiles saying no to your ideas 9not you personally) is that almost every solution to the 'exile problem' involves the words remove exile raiding capability. If you leave us alone, i'm pretty sure we'd get behind a push to give you guys all classes. Then maybe you'd see that its not all classes that let you raid succesfully, its dedication and good players.

[Vlahkmaak]

Paikis wrote:

Bloodfang@Nagafen wrote:

Leave Haven alone, so that those who want to stay can stay, but open it up so that factions can hope to regain some players. 

I don't think ANYONE disagrees with this line right here. the reason you see so many exiles saying no to your ideas 9not you personally) is that almost every solution to the 'exile problem' involves the words remove exile raiding capability. If you leave us alone, i'm pretty sure we'd get behind a push to give you guys all classes. Then maybe you'd see that its not all classes that let you raid succesfully, its dedication and good players.

I am not looking to hurt exiles.  I want exile faction left alone.  I don't care if exiles are a third faction, intended or not.   I don't care if exile are given PVP gear.  All I care about is having the same raiding options as blue servers, and the introduction of Beastlords for PVP servers.  If Blue servers, bound by the same lore as we are, with the exception that they cannot kill each other outside duels, were forced to raid with the current sytem we are forced to raid with SOE would change something immediately.

I have heard, not sure if it is true, that all t8 raid encounters were developed so city only factions can kill them.   I am not sure if this is true or not.  I believe opening up all classes to both cities will freshen up the game and possibly bring in new blood.   I am not looking at a POOF your and inqy now Chafay (or Torro) NPC.  We expect a lil work to be put into this option.  Is there some fat on my raid force that is not pulling its weight, yhea, possibly, I'd like to trim it and repllace it with a Templar, monk, and maybe a swashy or ranger.  I believe people might throw more effort behind a new class.  Also, population on venny sucks, recruiting suxxor, finding classes needed is very ahrd to impossible - everyone wants to exile becuase exiles seem to ahve a better hance at aquiring mythicals either earned or bought.  I see guilds on Naggy moving at the same snail pace we are.  Yhes, we have fewer hours than exiles.  We work 40+ hours per week, family time and all that, when we form up and raid we try to get 3-4 solid hours at it 3-4x per week.  We are not less dedicated, we have less time.  It is harder to bring 24 of all the right classes to a raid consistently.  We need a larger population to pull from and a larger class option to pull from.  Servers need to be merged and classes need to be opened up IMO.   Whether t8 raids were designed for single faction I really don't know but I beilieve, as do others in my guild, replacing a inqy with a templar would be a big difference on heals and functionality. 

[Ashr]

Just to clarify...   VA does not have more hours in the day...  we all operate under the same time system.. 24 hours in a day.  We all work 40 hours a week, and you know what...  we raid for 3 hours a night, 4 days a week, if that.  Until recently it was more like 2 hours a night with 3 on sunday.here is the difference:  For the past 3 weeks we have had 26 people at 100% attendance, and 4 or 5 at 80%.  Yes 26... that means we had people on stand by to rotate out as needed. 

[Vlahkmaak]

That was aimed towards the crown claiming city factions are weak cause we dont raid 8 hours a day - not VA.  However, in addition to having people there, ready to go, and all that, you ahve more options for raiding than we do.  I am only looking to level the options not weaken the encounters.  I don't expet having a templar is going to propell us outta t2 by the weekend but I do expect it is gonna move us faster. 

[Sorffats]

Vlahkmaak@Venekor wrote:

Paikis wrote:

Bloodfang@Nagafen wrote:

Leave Haven alone, so that those who want to stay can stay, but open it up so that factions can hope to regain some players. 

I don't think ANYONE disagrees with this line right here. the reason you see so many exiles saying no to your ideas 9not you personally) is that almost every solution to the 'exile problem' involves the words remove exile raiding capability. If you leave us alone, i'm pretty sure we'd get behind a push to give you guys all classes. Then maybe you'd see that its not all classes that let you raid succesfully, its dedication and good players.

I am not looking to hurt exiles.  I want exile faction left alone.  I don't care if exiles are a third faction, intended or not.   I don't care if exile are given PVP gear.  All I care about is having the same raiding options as blue servers, and the introduction of Beastlords for PVP servers.  If Blue servers, bound by the same lore as we are, with the exception that they cannot kill each other outside duels, were forced to raid with the current sytem we are forced to raid with SOE would change something immediately.

I have heard, not sure if it is true, that all t8 raid encounters were developed so city only factions can kill them.   I am not sure if this is true or not.  I believe opening up all classes to both cities will freshen up the game and possibly bring in new blood.   I am not looking at a POOF your and inqy now Chafay (or Torro) NPC.  We expect a lil work to be put into this option.  Is there some fat on my raid force that is not pulling its weight, yhea, possibly, I'd like to trim it and repllace it with a Templar, monk, and maybe a swashy or ranger.  I believe people might throw more effort behind a new class.  Also, population on venny sucks, recruiting suxxor, finding classes needed is very ahrd to impossible - everyone wants to exile becuase exiles seem to ahve a better hance at aquiring mythicals either earned or bought.  I see guilds on Naggy moving at the same snail pace we are.  Yhes, we have fewer hours than exiles.  We work 40+ hours per week, family time and all that, when we form up and raid we try to get 3-4 solid hours at it 3-4x per week.  We are not less dedicated, we have less time.  It is harder to bring 24 of all the right classes to a raid consistently.  We need a larger population to pull from and a larger class option to pull from.  Servers need to be merged and classes need to be opened up IMO.   Whether t8 raids were designed for single faction I really don't know but I beilieve, as do others in my guild, replacing a inqy with a templar would be a big difference on heals and functionality. 

I, for one, believe that exileds weren't meant to be a faction, but basically forced into a faction and SOE decided to expand it as such at that time.   Now that it is a faction, I no longer advocate for "no guilds, raids, groups, etc" for exileds.   But I do, however, believe that the fields need to be evened up.    City factions need to be given incentive to compete with exileds.  As it stands, we can't compete with them on the pvp battlefield because of the gear that they can so much more easily obtain via raiding (primarily mythicals).  Yes, we have pvp gear, and it is the best that any city factioned guild can obtain currently, but still doesn't compare to the gear you get in the higher tiered t8 raid zones.   The stats and resists are higher from the gear in the higher tiered raid zones.  And when you combine several of those pieces of gear together, those stats get much higher exponentially. And it really isn't just the gear (except for mythicals, we all want and need our mythicals primarily to compete), but we do want to see the content and experience it.   And the reason for quoting the above poster is really for one point.  I don't want to replace an inq with a temp, but instead I want to have both just like exileds do.