Open ALL Classes

[Killque]

Hummelchen wrote:

Killque wrote:

Just Exile. Problem solved.

Sure, if i get to keep my pvp items.

But I thought exile was "easy mode", so why would you need PvP items?

[Hummelch]

Killque wrote:

Hummelchen wrote:

Killque wrote:

Just Exile. Problem solved.

Sure, if i get to keep my pvp items.

But I thought exile was "easy mode", so why would you need PvP items?

To raid PvE, not to pvp. Learn the difference.

[goldfeesh641]

Bloodfang@Nagafen wrote:

Now, on the subject of roleplaying on the PvP servers ... really.  Guys.  I don't know about on Venekor, but on Nagafen, if you want to roleplay, fine.  Don't group up with certain people.  Or stay in the cities.  But I believe I can safely say that any and all roleplaying aspect disappears once you take that portal or step on that boat to Kunark.  Exile alone negates roleplaying.  Or, on a different tack ... it exemplifies roleplaying.  A Paladin and a Shadowknight uniting to fight a dragon that threatens the existence of both their cities?  Sure, and for simple reasons that are intrinsically tied to their individual classes.  The Paladin, being a champion for Good, would want to try to save as many innocents as possible.  Even the most delusional Paladin, while standing next to a Troll Templar, would have to admit that even the most evil can be turned to good, and would have to offer the benefit of the doubt as to whether they all deserved to be put to the sword or given the chance to change their evil ways.  A Shadowknight could simply pull a Machiavelli and justify grouping with a Paladin as using an available tool as a means to an end.  Nobody's asking for them to sit down to tea and discuss politics.  The options are there.  And the implementation is there.  It's even easier to do, if you think about it, now that Guild Housing is looming in the future.  If they could implement exiles as a third option, surely they could come up with a compromise to allow for faction based renegades.  Or missionaries, if you will.

Just curious what you might be talking about here, there are no dragons threatening the fate of Norrath.  Well, okay, Lord Vyemm is planning an invasion but that's... T7?  I mean, if you honestly are worried about him to the point where you have to team up with the enemy... yeah...Maybe a more accurate statement would be "A Paladin and a Shadowknight team up to fight the forces of the void which are after the power of the Greenmist and also to find out more about Age's End, the Norrathian Apocalypse."  Of course, judging by your statements, it takes more than just clicking through the text (you know, you have to READ that stuff too), in order to figure that much out.On a different note: I have to agree with others: if you want the benefits of all classes, just exile, seriously, the mechanic is there, yeah, you won't have all the benefits of PvP'ers NOT exiled... but since when have exiles ever complained about their PvP situation?  If you really really want to powergame as much as you do as to call for a fundamental change in the city histories (at least of the past 500 years), why do you remain in those cities? Just leave, we don't want you.

[Gimet]

Hummelchen wrote:

Bloodfang@Nagafen wrote:

Sorry, I made an honest mistake.  You're on Vox.  I'd mixed you up with the others, my apologies.  That doesn't change the fact that there's pretty much no roleplaying on Nagafen.  In fact, the extent of roleplaying that I have encountered from former Venekor players would be the use of "Ye" in place of you.  So ... my suggestion still stands as a viable alternative.  A damned good one, I think, but I'm biased. ">

And for the record, it doesn't matter to me whether you're on an SE server and buying items or not.  It's kind of a moot point since the introduction of that damned CCG anyway.  I could go out and plunk down $300 for cards and then sell them for plat ingame; that's perfectly legit according to SOE.  They even encourage it.  I simply choose not to.

He isnt on Vox, hes a lvl 35 Monk on Venekor.

Stop talking on the behalf of others. I have a 49 Conjuror on Vox, AND a 33 Fury on Vox. I DO play on Vox.

[Gimet]

Hummelchen wrote:

Gimet@Vox wrote:

Bloodfang@Nagafen wrote:

Read it.  I just disagree with it.  That's the wonderful thing about communication in an open society. " width="15" height="15">  To be completely blunt, and selfish, about the entire subject, I'd be happy if they did it just for Nagafen and left Venekor alone.  You're labelled as a "role playing" server.  Nagafen is not.  People just want to do their own thing.  You think that the exiles, which are a little more numerous every day, did so for the lore?  Or to role play?  Look at every PvE raiding guild on the blue servers ... ohmygodwhatevershallwedothey'reraiding?!?!?!?!?!?! ?!  With all classes?  Against the lore?  The lore which has been changed by the devs in the past?  Blashpemy!!!!  If they did it just for Nagafen, I'd wager there would be a lot of Venekor players suddenly willing to cough up $50 to move one high level toon over as a moneymaker for new toons.  Oooooh, there's a carrot to dangle in front of the coders ... transfers = cash ... and then everybody's happy.  We get what we want, you get non-roleplayers off your server, and then it'll just boil down to guild versus guild bickering, like on all the other servers, and the exile-hate from factions would dissipate. 

For the record, I'm not a RPer (I had PvPer before). " width="15" height="15" /> I just enjoy th eLore of the game and how it's enacted into PvP.

Nagafen peeps...always assuming stuff. You'r eon SE so you must use it. You're on Venekor so you MUST RP.

It's ok to ask, nobody is gonna bite your head off for being curious.

So another T3 Player( yes, i saw you 5 minuts ago standing in qeynos harbour watching us big boys play), who hasnt pvped T8, hasnt raided T8 and hasnt even seen T8, tells us how we should play this game. Thats awesome. Sony could just open the free transfers and all you little T1-5 pvpers can be happy pvping against noone. Enjoy your 100 kills and deaths.

As if End-tier players don't tell US how to play OUR game. People who weren't even involve din lowbie PvP, you end-tier people, are the ones who pushed MOST for PvP exp. And t8 people talk, complain, and brag about how they PvP so much...you all mine as well write a text book about end-tier. Historians were never THERE, but they heard and learned enough about it to explain to people now what's going on and what has happened.

Stop getting so sensitive about the subject matters. Leave you Emotion behind and have  adecent disscussion WITHOUT getting aggravated at people's arguments.

[Bloodfa]

goldfeesh641 wrote:

Bloodfang@Nagafen wrote:

Now, on the subject of roleplaying on the PvP servers ... really.  Guys.  I don't know about on Venekor, but on Nagafen, if you want to roleplay, fine.  Don't group up with certain people.  Or stay in the cities.  But I believe I can safely say that any and all roleplaying aspect disappears once you take that portal or step on that boat to Kunark.  Exile alone negates roleplaying.  Or, on a different tack ... it exemplifies roleplaying.  A Paladin and a Shadowknight uniting to fight a dragon that threatens the existence of both their cities?  Sure, and for simple reasons that are intrinsically tied to their individual classes.  The Paladin, being a champion for Good, would want to try to save as many innocents as possible.  Even the most delusional Paladin, while standing next to a Troll Templar, would have to admit that even the most evil can be turned to good, and would have to offer the benefit of the doubt as to whether they all deserved to be put to the sword or given the chance to change their evil ways.  A Shadowknight could simply pull a Machiavelli and justify grouping with a Paladin as using an available tool as a means to an end.  Nobody's asking for them to sit down to tea and discuss politics.  The options are there.  And the implementation is there.  It's even easier to do, if you think about it, now that Guild Housing is looming in the future.  If they could implement exiles as a third option, surely they could come up with a compromise to allow for faction based renegades.  Or missionaries, if you will.

Just curious what you might be talking about here, there are no dragons threatening the fate of Norrath.  Well, okay, Lord Vyemm is planning an invasion but that's... T7?  I mean, if you honestly are worried about him to the point where you have to team up with the enemy... yeah...Maybe a more accurate statement would be "A Paladin and a Shadowknight team up to fight the forces of the void which are after the power of the Greenmist and also to find out more about Age's End, the Norrathian Apocalypse."  Of course, judging by your statements, it takes more than just clicking through the text (you know, you have to READ that stuff too), in order to figure that much out.On a different note: I have to agree with others: if you want the benefits of all classes, just exile, seriously, the mechanic is there, yeah, you won't have all the benefits of PvP'ers NOT exiled... but since when have exiles ever complained about their PvP situation?  If you really really want to powergame as much as you do as to call for a fundamental change in the city histories (at least of the past 500 years), why do you remain in those cities? Just leave, we don't want you.

It was a hypothetical situation to explain the motivation and justification.  Obviously not an actual in-game scenario.  As for exiling, quite simply, it's not a viable option.  The people I play with didn't exile.  I didn't exile.  See, I'm part of the anti-exile crowd, so that wouldn't really work out too well for me and mine.  Exiles don't complain about their PvP situation because they raid to get the best gear in the game.  That's what they exiled for, the raiding.  Can't really blame them for using the mechanics available in the game.  Nobody in exile contends that PvP gear is better.  In fact they often call it crap.  But it's the best crap that most players here on Nagafen are going to get. 

Now, as for the 'powergame' comment, I assume you mean get the best gear in the game.  Nah, I'm content to get the same gear that anyone in the game can get without having to go through extraordinary means.  And certainly not if it means raiding.  Not my cup of tea, not even before PvP came out.  If it were, I'd be in a raiding guild.  A fundamental change in the city histories?  Fine, they could add in a world event that would make for a bigger threat than the other cities.  I really don't care what they do, how they explain it or justify it.  And if they implemented it to all but the roleplaying servers, or just to Nagafen, it wouldn't matter.  Because if they put it on Nagy, those that want it would go there and shut the hell up about it.  The four people on Nagafen actually roleplaying in North Qeynos would survive.  As for the "just leave, we don't want you", I'll shrug that off, as I've had more people make comments to me ingame that they appreciate that a few of us are at least trying to get some issues changed than people who "don't want" me.  I'm a big boy, I can handle a different point of view without telling somebody else to get lost. " width="15" height="15" />

And finally ... what server are you on?  Just to clarify why, in the ideal situation the change would happen on Nagafen only.  Not that I expect a change like this to happen at all, to be honest, but you never know.  Its wishful thinking, but maybe they'll get tired of the 4 or 5 threads a week that pop up requesting it.  I mean, it happened with Rangers.  It happened with T2 PvP locking, so there's always a chance.

[Zexybeast]

Instead of giving the classes to both factions, why not just remove the exile faction? That way, either side is on roughly the same ground for raiding, which is to say, go roll a blue toon to see the rest of the end-game content. (Q's: /cry Freeport has more DPS! Freep's: Q's have better Templar powah!) Then, go get your PvP gear and fight with that. There will always, to one degree or another, be gear disparity, between those who have time to raid/pvp to get it, and those who don't. Gear matters the most in solo, the least in group pvp.

[Killque]

Hummelchen wrote:

Killque wrote:

Hummelchen wrote:

Killque wrote:

Just Exile. Problem solved.

Sure, if i get to keep my pvp items.

But I thought exile was "easy mode", so why would you need PvP items?

To raid PvE, not to pvp. Learn the difference.

But with easier raiding we get better gear faster making us far superior in the PVP world as well. /roll

[goldfeesh641]

Bloodfang@Nagafen wrote:

goldfeesh641 wrote:

Bloodfang@Nagafen wrote:

Now, on the subject of roleplaying on the PvP servers ... really.  Guys.  I don't know about on Venekor, but on Nagafen, if you want to roleplay, fine.  Don't group up with certain people.  Or stay in the cities.  But I believe I can safely say that any and all roleplaying aspect disappears once you take that portal or step on that boat to Kunark.  Exile alone negates roleplaying.  Or, on a different tack ... it exemplifies roleplaying.  A Paladin and a Shadowknight uniting to fight a dragon that threatens the existence of both their cities?  Sure, and for simple reasons that are intrinsically tied to their individual classes.  The Paladin, being a champion for Good, would want to try to save as many innocents as possible.  Even the most delusional Paladin, while standing next to a Troll Templar, would have to admit that even the most evil can be turned to good, and would have to offer the benefit of the doubt as to whether they all deserved to be put to the sword or given the chance to change their evil ways.  A Shadowknight could simply pull a Machiavelli and justify grouping with a Paladin as using an available tool as a means to an end.  Nobody's asking for them to sit down to tea and discuss politics.  The options are there.  And the implementation is there.  It's even easier to do, if you think about it, now that Guild Housing is looming in the future.  If they could implement exiles as a third option, surely they could come up with a compromise to allow for faction based renegades.  Or missionaries, if you will.

Just curious what you might be talking about here, there are no dragons threatening the fate of Norrath.  Well, okay, Lord Vyemm is planning an invasion but that's... T7?  I mean, if you honestly are worried about him to the point where you have to team up with the enemy... yeah...Maybe a more accurate statement would be "A Paladin and a Shadowknight team up to fight the forces of the void which are after the power of the Greenmist and also to find out more about Age's End, the Norrathian Apocalypse."  Of course, judging by your statements, it takes more than just clicking through the text (you know, you have to READ that stuff too), in order to figure that much out.On a different note: I have to agree with others: if you want the benefits of all classes, just exile, seriously, the mechanic is there, yeah, you won't have all the benefits of PvP'ers NOT exiled... but since when have exiles ever complained about their PvP situation?  If you really really want to powergame as much as you do as to call for a fundamental change in the city histories (at least of the past 500 years), why do you remain in those cities? Just leave, we don't want you.

It was a hypothetical situation to explain the motivation and justification.  Obviously not an actual in-game scenario.  As for exiling, quite simply, it's not a viable option.  The people I play with didn't exile.  I didn't exile.  See, I'm part of the anti-exile crowd, so that wouldn't really work out too well for me and mine.  Exiles don't complain about their PvP situation because they raid to get the best gear in the game.  That's what they exiled for, the raiding.  Can't really blame them for using the mechanics available in the game.  Nobody in exile contends that PvP gear is better.  In fact they often call it crap.  But it's the best crap that most players here on Nagafen are going to get. I still don't fully understand the disparity here, I mean, why won't you exile "Oh, that's not us" Well, then neither are goody-two-shoe classes.  Exiles can fight exiles, so why not move your guild there and just gank the other exiles, sure you'll get smacked around, but you'll be noble AND have both sides' classes!

Now, as for the 'powergame' comment, I assume you mean get the best gear in the game.  Nah, I'm content to get the same gear that anyone in the game can get without having to go through extraordinary means.  And certainly not if it means raiding.  Not my cup of tea, not even before PvP came out.  If it were, I'd be in a raiding guild.  A fundamental change in the city histories?  Fine, they could add in a world event that would make for a bigger threat than the other cities.  I really don't care what they do, how they explain it or justify it.  And if they implemented it to all but the roleplaying servers, or just to Nagafen, it wouldn't matter. I'm sorry, but I doubt that SOE is going to worry about catering to a single server whenever the game was not designed originally to maintain a PvP system (it may have been in the thoughts for the future, but whenever they made the mechanics, they definitely gave it minimal thought in a lot of sense!).  Honestly, why do the cities need to raid so much?  VP has been done by individual cities on PvP, sure it's a LOT harder, but that makes it all the more rewarding right?  As far as PvP balance goes, if you're on a PvP server, prepare to get killed, a lot, yes, I know we all say that, but you know what? It's PvP, it's not perfectly balanced, it makes SENSE that certain classes are better than others at it.  "Hey look, that guy is made for nuking the CRAP out of people, I bet he could kill me one on one!" "Really, what class are you?"  "Well, I'm mainly for groups, but I want to solo, so I should be able to be the uberest person out there too!" "Right..." Look, it just doesn't work, imho.  MAYBE once guildhalls are out, allow cross-city GUILD formation and basically slap them as exile, but make them belong to one "city" as a guild, that, to me, is fine, as there are morally flexible people no matter where you go, so long as it's out of the city that is supposedly a "beacon of hope" or whatever, it's fine by me. Because if they put it on Nagy, those that want it would go there and shut the hell up about it.  The four people on Nagafen actually roleplaying in North Qeynos would survive.  As for the "just leave, we don't want you" Didn't relaly mean that as a personal slight, was just saying, if you want to be evil in a good city, "we" (as in Qeynos) don't want you here, I'm sorry, but I can't stand the thought of Antonia saying "You know what, Shadowknights aren't THAT bad, they only slaughter others, care only for themselves, and generally hurt society for their own interests, that is the EXACT kind of person we need in this city..., I'll shrug that off, as I've had more people make comments to me ingame that they appreciate that a few of us are at least trying to get some issues changed than people who "don't want" me.  I'm a big boy, I can handle a different point of view without telling somebody else to get lost. " width="15" height="15" />

And finally ... what server are you on?  Just to clarify why, in the ideal situation the change would happen on Nagafen only.  Not that I expect a change like this to happen at all, to be honest, but you never know.  Its wishful thinking, but maybe they'll get tired of the 4 or 5 threads a week that pop up requesting it.  I mean, it happened with Rangers.  It happened with T2 PvP locking, so there's always a chance.  I play both servers, though mainly Venekor at the moment as I've found people on Naggy tend to automatically point at me and say "YOU'RE A SPY AND YOU'RE GOING TO GET YOUR SECOND ACCOUNT AND GANK ME, I WILL NOT GROUP WITH YOU!!!!!!" Which is annoying, to say the least.

[Vlahkmaak]

Faerie@Venekor wrote:

That thread opened my eyes on one major issue: THERE IS A MAJOR BUG ON PVE SERVERS.On PVE servers, due to a few missing lines of codes, some exploiters, who obviously have no morality, are using the 24 classes daily to clean PVE content, instead of sticking to their faction classes.That's an obvious exploit of a bug in the system on PVE servers, ruining the RP, ignoring the lore of the game, and making the PVE content needlessly trivial.Devs, we all know that PVP servers are your priority, and this bug on PVE servers is only due to a lack of attention for those servers, but please fix the PVE servers as soon as possible. Save the lore and RP from the PVE exploiters !!!

I knew someone else would see this as a bug like I do.

[Vlahkmaak]

Bloodfang@Nagafen wrote:

Sorry, I made an honest mistake.  You're on Vox.  I'd mixed you up with the others, my apologies.  That doesn't change the fact that there's pretty much no roleplaying on Nagafen.  In fact, the extent of roleplaying that I have encountered from former Venekor players would be the use of "Ye" in place of you.  So ... my suggestion still stands as a viable alternative.  A damned good one, I think, but I'm biased. " width="15" height="15" />

And for the record, it doesn't matter to me whether you're on an SE server and buying items or not.  It's kind of a moot point since the introduction of that damned CCG anyway.  I could go out and plunk down $300 for cards and then sell them for plat ingame; that's perfectly legit according to SOE.  They even encourage it.  I simply choose not to.

There is actually next to no role playing on Venekor too.  I made my Venny toons before the server got re labled as RP.  I was here with friends so just decided to stick around unless it got to weird.  There is about 1 FP and 1 Q serious RP guild.  Maybe a few smaller ones - but really no reason to not allow PVP servers the same options as every other PVE server.  I want a templar in my raid force and only 1/3 of the raid force is willing to exile so we are firmly stuck in FP.  I have no desire to leave the rest behind just becuase they disagree with me on what would make an ideal raid force.  Exile is not foreveryone but it seems to be for everyone that wants their mythicals on PVP servers.   I just want what the PVE servers ahve (all classes) + Beast lords.  I want Beast lords too!!

[Spyderbite]

Vlahkmaak@Venekor wrote:

I just want what the PVE servers ahve (all classes) + Beast lords.  I want Beast lords too!!

You just got taken off my 8... (cell phone advertisement reference).

[Shadow_Viper]

Enabling all classes would be a really bad idea, it would completely go against the game's lore. The lore behind PVP is the war between Qeynos and Kelethin VS Freeport, Neriak and Gorowyn(currently), good vs evil.

If someone wants to raid with all classes they have the option to exile or join a PVE server.

Personally, I would feel more proud, and it would be a great accomplishment taking out a difficult encounter with only evil/neutral classes or good/neutral classes.

[Gimet]

Shadow_Viper wrote:

Enabling all classes would be a really bad idea, it would completely go against the game's lore. The lore behind PVP is the war between Qeynos and Kelethin VS Freeport, Neriak and Gorowyn(currently), good vs evil.

If someone wants to raid with all classes they have the option to exile or join a PVE server.

Personally, I would feel more proud, and it would be a great accomplishment taking out a difficult encounter with only evil/neutral classes or good/neutral classes.

These people think there's no lore to protect. Let's take what doesn't exist as a purposeful means of "fixing" something. I personally like the way things are. SoE should fix something about raiding efficiency of having Good/Neutral or Evil/Neutral classes versus X mob. Because I KNOW SoE too likes how the classes are right now.

[Grayspirit]

Who gives a [Removed for Content]?

Open up all the classes.

[Paikis]

What Broncas said.

Having all classes wont get you into Veeshan's Peak. It'll make it easier, but not by that much.

[Sightless]

Paikis wrote:

What Broncas said.

Having all classes wont get you into Veeshan's Peak. It'll make it easier, but not by that much.

It seemed to help you guys quite a bit, don't you think? Before exiled, no guild on Venekor made it out of the first raid dungeons, after exile, you've got your first Mythicals.

[Paikis]

No one made it out of the first raid instances (if you exclude the Body Count/Voices/everyone else raiding alliance which has killed everything up to Overking, and Liebegarde who I'm pretty sure were up to Leviathan?) because there is too much dead weight in the raids. Too many people who are too willing to let other people carry the raids. Nobody even bothers to time AEs in the factions, and yet it's having all classes which make exile's able to kill things? No.

This is a gear-based game, and faction players (on venekor) have easier access to better gear than the exiles do. Total count of all VP set gear in haven: 1. It isn't better gear, it isnt all classes, its having more people who can pull their own weight that makes raiding easier in exile.

[Izzypop]

Haven is a faction.Haven is intended to be the underdog faction not the powerhouse faction.  Hardmode, not easymode.  Every disadvantage with no advantage.  Not a faction so powerful and well geared that nobody wants to fight haven, and everybody wants to join instead.  Haven was meant to be more difficult way to play the game for only the hardiest of players.As it stands now Haven is the powerhouse faction of Nagafen .  The bulk of the level 80 high playtime players are in Haven because players value access to all classes more than PvP gear.As long as this remains unchanged and haven is the only faction with access to all classes Haven will always be the top faction.There are only 2 ways of changing this.#1) Go Monty Hall on city factions.  Behind door #1 PvP armor that's better than VP gear.  Behind door #2 Upgrade your fabeled epic to a Mythical for a fistfull of PvP tokens.  Behind door #3 Bitter hatred from the bulk of your level 80 raiders as everything they have worked for becomes worthless next to the power of revive zerging each other at the KP docks for tokens.#2) Open all classes to City factions.  There are a lot of exiles who don't want to be exiled, but are stuck being in exile because they want to raid end game content.  Given the choice of raiding with all classes in a city or haven many of them would choose a city instead, and some would stay for the challenge of being the server's underdogs in haven. 

[Sorffats]

Every exiled says it doesn't make much of a difference raiding with all classes.  Yet they are the only ones with mythicals.   If it doesn't make that much of a difference, then I implore you to reroll new toons all in a city faction and do it.   Such BS from exiled.   They dont' do it, because they've gotten used to the ezmode of exiled.  Kraken even went back to exiled because they couldn't handle it in a city faction...too hard for them, I'd suspect.  Initially, exiled was just a place for PVP ONLY minded individuals to go to get more targets.  That is no longer the reason to go exiled, now the reason to go exiled is to have availability to all classes to make raiding easier.

And before you ezmode jerks get off on your "it takes more than all classes to successfully raid" kick...yeah, we all know it takes more, but it certainly makes it a heck of alot easier to have all the classes.  If it weren't so much easier, then there would be more city factioned guild progressed beyond t2 in RoK.

I say open up all classes to all factions.  I'm not advocating a FFA server, simply put a couple more class trainers in the cities and allow each city to roll any class they want.  I know a few inquisitors that played templars in PVE that would roll templar in a heartbeat if they could be templar in FP.  I bet there are probably an equal amount of people in Q that would roll a brigand if they could stay in their Q guild.   SOE's [Removed for Content] child (exileds) want to have all the glory, and want to keep saying it doesn't make a difference, when it clearly does.   I don't believe exileds would have made it this far without availability of all the classes.   I've said it before, until you reroll in a city then advance to where you are now, you don't have a leg to stand on.

In other words, Broncas and all you other exileds....shut up or put up.

[goldfeesh641]

I don't understand these arguments anymore, people are saying "we don't want to exile, cause... well, it's easy..." but also saying "we want the advantage that exiled people have!"  Seriously, if you want top-end raid gear, why NOT exile?  "Because everyone else is doing it and so I shouldn't" is the worst possible excuse I can think of.  You know what? supposedly Exiles won't get guild halls because they HAVE the best of PvP (SOE quote there), so once that comes out, what then, no one gets guild halls? everyone does so its 3 clone sides fighting each other with no one having any class edge in any situation because they all have the same classes?  That, at least to me, is not interesting, its clones fighting clones, and we all know how much episodes II and III of star wars sucked...

[dr4gonUK]

Day1 pvp server. No exile faction.

I was waiting for them to sort out the betrayal quest for ages. So i could go to Qeynos where i had been playing for the previous 18 months on pve server. It wasnt a big thing on pve server.

So imagine my suprise when the new betrayal quest had suddenly turned into a ballacher BRAND NEW FACTION! Why SOE made the new faction i will never know. All they had to do was leave the old quest in. Whoever came up with the idea wasnt in touch with the mainstream. People were prepared to take the handicap because we/both factions knew we were in the same boat from Day1.

LEVEL PLAYING FEILD.

Q was stronger heals, FP was bigger spike damage.

Exile faction is a copout. On SOE's part, not the players. Path of least resistance. Was there malice aforethought on SOE's part to make raiding harder on pvp servers? ANd then a renege on introducing Exile faction. I do know that exile faction is a big part of why we lost so many players to aoc.

[KatrinaDeath]

The reason the Exiled faction has glowing shiny Mythicals is not all 24 classes. They are just the most hardcore and willing to make the effort, willing to raid 8 straight hours so every single person know their exact role in the encounter. They will set up a near perfect raid force with whom ever shows up to raid. The city factions do not. The city goes into PR with a seriously sub-par raid force and gives new meaning to FAIL. When your raid force goes in with one mage you end up lacking a lot of critical buffs/debuffs. Learn to make a good raid force. Don't bring 12 swashys to the raid. And don't give up after 2 wipes.There are no pity Mythicals. Only ones earned and one ganked.Citys: LEARN TO RAIDExile: Nice work

[goldfeesh641]

I have to agree, while it is somewhat more difficult for city factions to raid (due to lack of classes) that is NOT the only reason exiles can do the raids, and the other reasons consist of options completely open to the cities, they just need to learn some discipline, imho.

[Sorffats]

Jordin@Nagafen wrote:

The reason the Exiled faction has glowing shiny Mythicals is not all 24 classes. They are just the most hardcore and willing to make the effort, willing to raid 8 straight hours so every single person know their exact role in the encounter. They will set up a near perfect raid force with whom ever shows up to raid. The city factions do not. The city goes into PR with a seriously sub-par raid force and gives new meaning to FAIL. When your raid force goes in with one mage you end up lacking a lot of critical buffs/debuffs. Learn to make a good raid force. Don't bring 12 swashys to the raid. And don't give up after 2 wipes.There are no pity Mythicals. Only ones earned and one ganked.Citys: LEARN TO RAIDExile: Nice work

And I say you're an idiot if you believe that.   There are several raiding guilds in cities.  Now, I can't say anything for Q's because I loathe them and have no clue what Q guilds do.  I do, however, know that my guild (Betrayed) is dedicated to advancing.   You don't have to raid 24/7 to get better, advance, etc.   Yes, you do need learn the raids, etc.  But you also NEED every advantage you can get...like all classes.   If it weren't so, then more city guilds would have been in VP and have mythicals already.

This is the same old song and dance.   Fact is:  Exileds have access to all classes.  Exileds have advanced quicker because of this.   Exileds have advanced easier because of this. 

Give cities access to all classes, and we'll prove that we can advance easier as well.   That is the bottom line.   Just ask that one question.  If cities had access to all classes would it make raiding easier?   If you answer yes to this, then all your arguing is unfounded.  If you answer no to that, then your an idiot.

[Warr]

Zexybeast@Venekor wrote:

Instead of giving the classes to both factions, why not just remove the exile faction? That way, either side is on roughly the same ground for raiding, which is to say, go roll a blue toon to see the rest of the end-game content. (Q's: /cry Freeport has more DPS! Freep's: Q's have better Templar powah!) Then, go get your PvP gear and fight with that. There will always, to one degree or another, be gear disparity, between those who have time to raid/pvp to get it, and those who don't. Gear matters the most in solo, the least in group pvp.

With this sort of thinking, you may as well just remove raid zones from PvP servers all together. If a PvP Server exists for pvp only, eleminate raid zones and instances, and make is so that the only gear available are the pvp items. Have quests only give coin and experience. Why would someone have to make 2 identical characters and level them both up and have to play with 2 different sets of people if they want to experience end game content and pvp as well. Thats just stupid.Actually no, why not take it one step further? Remove leveling from PvP. Create a character on pvp, instantly be level 80 with your full set of pvp gear and be released into RoK and have at it, why waste all that time leveling and stupid pve content? How many people would actually play on a server like that?People want to be able to PvP and PvE with their same character. One could argue that there could be a parallel PvE server for each PvP server, simillar to copying your character over to test, that would allow you to have a PvE version of your character and guild and a PvP version of your character and guild, so that when it was raid time everyone could /camp Character.PVE and raid to their hearts content and then switch back to their pvp version. Raided gear would be restricted to the .PVE character and PvP would be restricted to the .PvP charcter, every other aspect of the game other than specific gear items would update on both servers at the same time. But thats a bit extreme.Or without going that route, with them disabling certain abilities while in pvp, certain gear could be disabled while in pvp. If you were wearing your raid gear and got caught in a pvp fight, it would act as if that item was empty and you were running around half naked. You'd have to make [I cannot control my vocabulary] sure while running around you've got the right gear on. Personally I'm not sure how I would react to this situation, it gets a bit too controlling and restrictive and I think I'd probably just end up quitting.So I'd agree that logically the only option would be to open up all classes to each faction. It would help some of the more casual raid organizations with some of the fights, but if you aren't dedicated enough or organized enough as a collective, a few extra classes aren't going to save your [I cannot control my vocabulary].The reason exile on pvp servers is so successful isn't only because we have all classes, its the mentality and unity that being an exiled on a pvp server creates. If you exile, you're either 100% dedicated to your character and your guild, or you're about to quit the game so you exile and say [I cannot control my vocabulary] it i'm killing all ya'll [I cannot control my vocabulary]! The weak get weeded out leaving only those who are willing to put in the time to get what they need to do done. You get unified and get to know everyone in your guild a lot more, and get closer to those people more than you ever would have while in a city faction, joining random pick up groups to complete zones. A random pick up group in a city could get deep down in sebilis, one corner away from the last named outside of Venri's lair and having a scout get feared and pull 5 extra yellow ^^^ mobs on you and getting slaughtered. On the flipside of that, being exiled, you know your group, you start to catch on to how the other people think, you can trust that when that assassin gets feared and pulls those extra 5 mobs, your enchanter(s) can mez them successfully without missing a beat and never having a single mez get broken. That is how exile has become the "powerhouse faction," dedication and trust of the other players, and knowing those players so well, you know what they're about to do without them even having to say a word. With a city guild, certain group slots (heroic or epic) can be "outsourced" to the general population to get CrappyDruidA to take the 6th spot and heal for a CoA run and not being able to get past the 6th named because the druid doesn't know how to cure or pulls random adds, or is nuking when he should be healing, we've all been in that group. On the other hand in (venekor) exile, you've got your guild and thats it. And of your guild, you have whoever is currently online at the time. You decide to run CoA with a Bruiser, Swash, and an Illusionist who is boxing a Warden and essentially 3 man CoA and clear it. These are the key situations that you really learn what kind of players those people are. Tests their limits as well as your own, bringing you closer as a group. That is where exile triumphs over the city.On the other subject, I feel bad saying it because so many quests you see its obvious that the devs really put a lot into coming up with the dialog and story lines, but I could really care less about the lore of this game. I did my Soulfire/prismatic/fabled and almost have my mythical, could not tell you one bit about the story lines of any of them and I don't care. If i wanted an epic story i'd go read a book. Same reason i could never play any Final Fantasy games, I don't play video games to read a digital book.The idea of having Venekor having both PvP and PvE abilities while Nagafen limited to just PvP only (or reverse it, whatever) might have been a possibility had it been implemented when the game was launched, but if you ask me, a PvP-Only tagged server would have gone down in flames a lot faster than a PvP-RP tagged server.So when you (not you as in zexy, but you as a general population... <3 zexy) get rolled by that exile group that has their mythicals and you start complaining about being OP, you're [I cannot control my vocabulary] right they were OP and they deserve to be. I'm sorry you're not able to put in the time and dedication for whatever reason (work family school life) to be as powerful as you can be in this game. The game to you is something casual that you do in your spare time, you get out what you put in, maybe its YOU that should be on the blue server. You might be playing the wrong type of game all together. " goldfeesh641 wrote:

I don't understand these arguments anymore, people are saying "we don't want to exile, cause... well, it's easy..." but also saying "we want the advantage that exiled people have!"  Seriously, if you want top-end raid gear, why NOT exile?

QFF'nT For real, its not like there's a lock on your character saying "SORRY! You're not allowed to exile!" You want all classes? The door is there, do something about it, walk through it. Think about it, why not exile? What does the city provide to you that you can't do while exiled. You get signets, status titles, pvp gear, and cheaper prices. Big deal. Raid mobs drop plat, kill more raid mobs, earn more plat, so that evens that out.  People keep opening one door yelling "Go raid on a blue server you easymode wannabees!" while they walk accross the hall and open the other door and yell "[I cannot control my vocabulary] you SOE let us do what exile can do so we don't have to give up our status items!' The only reason I can think of not to is the lore of good vs evil, but you've got to ask yourself at what point do you let the lore ruin the fun of the game? As for the hating on exiles, tell me, why?  The Negatives: 1) We took the dive to be able to raid as the game was intended and you're sitting in a city with a raid handicap stuck on Mob XYZ. That's a form of jealousy. 2) You lost some of the best raiders and groupmates that used to be part of your raid force when you were too scared to exile. Thats being bitter.3) We spend a lot of time in raid zones so you don't see us that often. The Positives: 1) We give you more pvp targets. Thats why you are here right? Its not for the raiding. 2) We help give you your pvp gear. Even if we don't want to. " /> 3) We spend a lot of time in raid zones. So you won't get slaughtered by that mythical carrying scout constantly as opposed to that 5 pvp piece geared scout who camps the kp dock all day so he can get his 6th piece. Answer me this. If soe were to allow you to keep your PvP gear when you exiled, would you do it? Don't just give me a crap answer that you didn't even think about. Really think about it. You could fight anyone who is not grouped with you as long as they're within the level limits of the zone. Is that not why you play on a pvp server, for the pvp? There's your chance to have the ultimate pvp experience. If you say yes, then you're no better than those of us who "sold out" to get the raid gear, look in a mirror and see who's selling out by staying in a city so they can keep their pvp gear and half of the potential pvp.

[Disarray]

Warren, did the quote on your signature come from a Poison The Well song?

[Warr]

Yeah it is from two PTW songs. The siggy is clickable. " />The original plan when i made it, since i'm playing two exiled characters from Qeynos was going to say:"Dear Antonia,I could never swallow your false ideals of a lifeless happy ending.         <- "An Artist's Rendering of Me"Sincerely Yours, I've disowned us."               <- "Slice Paper Wrists"So that it would look like a letter written to the queen, but I couldn't figure out an easier way to get it all to fit with the layout i was coming up with so i had to cut it out some.

[Shadow_Viper]

Izzypop wrote:

There are only 2 ways of changing this.#1) Go Monty Hall on city factions.  Behind door #1 PvP armor that's better than VP gear.  Behind door #2 Upgrade your fabeled epic to a Mythical for a fistfull of PvP tokens.  Behind door #3 Bitter hatred from the bulk of your level 80 raiders as everything they have worked for becomes worthless next to the power of revive zerging each other at the KP docks for tokens.#2) Open all classes to City factions.  There are a lot of exiles who don't want to be exiled, but are stuck being in exile because they want to raid end game content.  Given the choice of raiding with all classes in a city or haven many of them would choose a city instead, and some would stay for the challenge of being the server's underdogs in haven. 

Those are not the only two ways to address the exiled issue. All SOE really needs to do would be.

1) Restrict Exiled players from entering raid zones.

2) Remove the creature comforts from haven, bank, broker, merchants, crafting stations, etc.

The exiled faction should be a brief rest stop when betraying from one city to another(example: Moving from Qeynos to Freeport).

[Brightspring]

Shadow_Viper wrote:

Izzypop wrote:

There are only 2 ways of changing this.#1) Go Monty Hall on city factions.  Behind door #1 PvP armor that's better than VP gear.  Behind door #2 Upgrade your fabeled epic to a Mythical for a fistfull of PvP tokens.  Behind door #3 Bitter hatred from the bulk of your level 80 raiders as everything they have worked for becomes worthless next to the power of revive zerging each other at the KP docks for tokens.#2) Open all classes to City factions.  There are a lot of exiles who don't want to be exiled, but are stuck being in exile because they want to raid end game content.  Given the choice of raiding with all classes in a city or haven many of them would choose a city instead, and some would stay for the challenge of being the server's underdogs in haven. 

Those are not the only two ways to address the exiled issue. All SOE really needs to do would be.

1) Restrict Exiled players from entering raid zones.

2) Remove the creature comforts from haven, bank, broker, merchants, crafting stations, etc.

The exiled faction should be a brief rest stop when betraying from one city to another(example: Moving from Qeynos to Freeport).

That really wouldn't be fair to those of us who exiled intending to remain exiled.  Forcing us back into the cities would mean that we lose all our spells.  I know.  Cry me a river.  But we exiled & got those adept 3s and masters not intending to go back.  I suppose SOE could allow us one time only to keep all our spells, but exile was obviously intended as a viable third faction, not a waypoint between Freeport & Qeynos.  Why else would there be a guild registrar in Haven?

I'm probably a rarity in that I didn't exile so I could raid.  I exiled because my FP guild became inactive shortly after the introduction of PvP writs & I had been in VA's Qeynos guild for quite a while.  I raid because I have to in order to get gear.

Barring exiles from raiding would mean that we were essentially unplayable in PvP.  Not only would we not be able to get PvP gear but we would no longer be able to even get raid gear.  I don't agree with the assertion that gear is unimportant in group PvP.  In an even fight, gear is crucial.  Sure if you're rolling those well-geared soloes it may not matter as much.  But in a 6 on 6, every small advantage matters.  Isn't that why everyone's so annoyed that exiles can raid?

Perhaps a better solution would be to restrict the classes allowed in a raid on a PvP server.  No more coercers mingling with paladins.  Just allow single-faction raids, even if you're exiled.  Oh, and don't allow anyone who's wearing PvP or city faction gear to enter a raid zone (and no swapping it in after you zone in there).  No signets of ethereal form or any of that, either.

My point is that every faction has its advantages & disadvantages.  I think anyone who claims exiles don't have an advantage when it comes to forming their raids is deluding himself.  It's no accident that the most successful raid guilds on Venekor & Nagafen are all exiled.  But if you believe that raid gear > PvP gear, take the plunge & join us in Haven.