i have a question

[Davngr1]

my main is a necromancer. he was my first toon and my funnest, i learned the game with him.  for the most part i soloed him to T5 then found out grouping was a much funner option and that is how i got him to T6. my necro is currently lvl 80  with 136 AA

i dont want to make this another *my toon got nerfed post* so instead im making it a *please tell me what purpose my toon serves in raids/groups now?* post

yes im aware summoners have a HP/mana conversion item (heart/shard) but i just cant seem to feel like that's enough to secure a raid/group spot.

so that is my question, when  SoE dev's where developing the RoK summoner what was to be our role in raid/groups? 

thank's for your post in advance.

[DizzyGee]

DPS (and hearts)

[Davngr1]

Omage@Permafrost wrote:

DPS (and hearts)

ok,   but summoner dps is no where near what it was in T7 and in fact it's so low that i have seen parses where a necro with a mythincal pet was out parsed by a monk.  and summoner hp/mana convertion items are almost completely useless when compared to real utility classes.  so if the raid wants DPS  the invite another pred/rouge/sorc  if they want utility they invite a chanter/bard.  because you see summoners are not great epic dps anymore.   so there has to be something im missing here, anyone out there kown what im missing?

[Rattfa]

Davngr1 wrote:

i have seen parses where a necro with a mythincal pet was out parsed by a monk.

I LOL'd

[Davngr1]

Rattface@Nagafen wrote:

Davngr1 wrote:

i have seen parses where a necro with a mythincal pet was out parsed by a monk.

I LOL'd

I /cry    when i saw it  

[Drewz]

You just need gear/and/or proper group setup for necros to do good dps.  The necromancer in my guild is pretty consistantly in the top 5 of the parse.And those hearts really do help.

[Thunderthyze]

Davngr1 wrote:

Rattface@Nagafen wrote:

Davngr1 wrote:

i have seen parses where a necro with a mythincal pet was out parsed by a monk.

I LOL'd

I /cry    when i saw it  

Monks everywhere are dancing in the streets.

[bryldan]

Ya necros still do pretty good dps. Granted it is not like they were in t7 but still justifies them a spot in any raid with what they contribute to the raid. Hearts are very important to most named encounters in this game especially since some of them can last over 10 mins.

[Davngr1]

Drewzor wrote:

You just need gear/and/or proper group setup for necros to do good dps.  The necromancer in my guild is pretty consistantly in the top 5 of the parse.And those hearts really do help.

and yes i come in around top 5 but that is with all the buffs and a flawless spell flow, but guess what... utillity classes are right behind me if not beating me.  they not only bring their personal dps, they bring dps for their group as well.   do heart/shards bring dps to a raid?  even if you transform those hp/mana convertion points into CA/spell dmg it still wont amount to a small fraction of what dmg procs/auto attack mods from real utillity classes bring.

[Davngr1]

bryldan wrote:

Ya necros still do pretty good dps. Granted it is not like they were in t7 but still justifies them a spot in any raid with what they contribute to the raid. Hearts are very important to most named encounters in this game especially since some of them can last over 10 mins

 thre are so many regen items/gear in game and other classes that bring more regen,  equal personal dmg, better group buffs and raid wide buffs.   in that ten min encouter would you rather 2 healers and the tank get 10% mana regen..  or only one healer and the tank got 10% mana regen?

[Davngr1]

Holymoly@Runnyeye wrote:

Davngr1 wrote:

Rattface@Nagafen wrote:

Davngr1 wrote:

i have seen parses where a necro with a mythincal pet was out parsed by a monk.

I LOL'd

I /cry    when i saw it  

Monks everywhere are dancing in the streets.

im dancing with them.  im all for player > class...   but this was two players at the top of their game and in a 10 mimute or so encounter the summoner should have out parsed the monk hands down.    are not necros the long fight dps ?  

[interstellarmatter]

You are DPS and some utility.  If you aren't making towards the top of the parse, then you are lacking good gear.  In fact, summoners rolls in raids are a lot more secure than some of the other classes. 

Room for improvement?  Sure, there is room for all the classes to be improved.  Anything to be overly concerned about? No.

[Davngr1]

interstellarmatter wrote:

You are DPS and some utility.  If you aren't making towards the top of the parse, then you are lacking good gear.  In fact, summoners rolls in raids are a lot more secure than some of the other classes. 

Room for improvement?  Sure, there is room for all the classes to be improved.  Anything to be overly concerned about? No.

what classes do you play?   do you raid with a necro?    what type of gear does this necro you raid with that is at the top of your parse have?   better yet what type of gear do your preds/rouges/sorc have?  

[Morgane]

Davngr1 wrote:

ok,   but summoner dps is no where near what it was in T7 and in fact it's so low that i have seen parses where a necro with a mythincal pet was out parsed by a monk. 

 Can I have the name of that Monk? I gotta know what he/she is doing that allows him/her to out-DPS a necro! I am clearly doing something wrong.

[Davngr1]

Morgane@Everfrost wrote:

Davngr1 wrote:

ok,   but summoner dps is no where near what it was in T7 and in fact it's so low that i have seen parses where a necro with a mythincal pet was out parsed by a monk. 

 Can I have the name of that Monk? I gotta know what he/she is doing that allows him/her to out-DPS a necro! I am clearly doing something wrong.

he is a great player.. not gona give names out coz it's not my place to. but the fact stands necros are suppose to be top tier dps SoE said they where from the time they made them not suck..  and to now in T8 make them some kind of *solo class* at the expense of raid dps is wrong.  if necro are no longer raid DPS then, hey  SoE..    give necros some REAL utility give necros a raid wide buff that will make raid leaders say..  lets make sure we have a necro.  because as it stands now that 3rd illy or that second wiz looks WAY better for the mage spot   hell screw the mage  get a scout.

[Drewz]

I want to read this post or see the website where SoE listed what tier and how much dmg each class should do that everyone keeps referencing in these posts.

[Morgane]

Davngr1 wrote:

he is a great player.. not gona give names out coz it's not place to, but the fact stands necros are suppose to be top tier dps SoE said they where from the time they made them not suck..  and to konw in T8 make them some kind of *solo class* at the expense of raid dps is wrong.  if im no longer raid DPS then hey  SoE..    give me some REAL utility give me a raid wide buff that will make raid leaders say..  lets make sure we have a necro.  because as it stands now that 3rd illy or that second wiz looks WAY better for the mage spot   hell screw the mage  get a scout.

I admittedly don't know squat about necros but have you done some research on your AA's? Maybe compare your AA trees to another raid necro? Maybe you're not optimizing your AA pts or something. I know that when I finally respeced my Monk for pure DPS I started doing much more damage. Just a thought. I certainly understand your frustration... we Monks have been living in No Man's Land forever... we're a good solo class to be sure, maybe one of the best... but we most def lack in the raid department... we're not DPS, we're not tank (we'll certainly do in a pinch but we're not usually sought after for out tanking abilities).

Anyway... good luck!

[LordPazuzu]

hrt plz

[Davngr1]

Drewzor wrote:

I want to read this post or see the website where SoE listed what tier and how much dmg each class should do that everyone keeps referencing in these posts.

that post was discredited long ago, and i dont feel like fishing thru these forums to link it for you.  the reason for my post is that till T8 summoners where raid DPS and are now some solo/wanna be utillity class it seems.  i dont mind being a utility class but i would like some real utility so that when my DPS is crap my raid leader doesn't start thinking it's time to replace me..  since im not going to give 110% as i do now for 5th place on parse.. thats no fun..  expacially after being top parse in T7.

[KBern]

Yes Necro DPS is not what it was and it mainly the pet.

With the many proc items, + to crit, + to spell damage, our pets are not keeping up with the Joneses. 

They do not get our gear benefits so everyone else around the summoners are getting 100 of the DPS output adjusted in some way, while the summoners only get their portion of their DPS boosted the pet stays the same.

But we still do good DPS, just a bit harder to get near the top of the parse again.  As long as you are not totally sucking, and have proven your self in your guild you should be OK.

Even some of the more vocal necros on EQ2 flames are saying about the same thing right now.

[Davngr1]

Morgane@Everfrost wrote:

Davngr1 wrote:

he is a great player.. not gona give names out coz it's not place to, but the fact stands necros are suppose to be top tier dps SoE said they where from the time they made them not suck..  and to konw in T8 make them some kind of *solo class* at the expense of raid dps is wrong.  if im no longer raid DPS then hey  SoE..    give me some REAL utility give me a raid wide buff that will make raid leaders say..  lets make sure we have a necro.  because as it stands now that 3rd illy or that second wiz looks WAY better for the mage spot   hell screw the mage  get a scout.

I admittedly don't know squat about necros but have you done some research on your AA's? Maybe compare your AA trees to another raid necro? Maybe you're not optimizing your AA pts or something. I know that when I finally respeced my Monk for pure DPS I started doing much more damage. Just a thought. I certainly understand your frustration... we Monks have been living in No Man's Land forever... we're a good solo class to be sure, maybe one of the best... but we most def lack in the raid department... we're not DPS, we're not tank (we'll certainly do in a pinch but we're not usually sought after for out tanking abilities).

Anyway... good luck! " width="15" height="15" />

a dps oriented necro.. i live for parses. necro has 51% crit self buffed and 1k +spell dmg.   i have the best possible AA set up and casting sequence availabel to necro at this time.  it's not my play ability in question.. it's DEV's desion to totaly [Removed for Content] a classes main role with out giving them another.

[Davngr1]

Saurakk@Guk wrote:

Yes Necro DPS is not what it was and it mainly the pet.

With the many proc items, + to crit, + to spell damage, our pets are not keeping up with the Joneses. 

They do not get our gear benefits so everyone else around the summoners are getting 100 of the DPS output adjusted in some way, while the summoners only get their portion of their DPS boosted the pet stays the same.

But we still do good DPS, just a bit harder to get near the top of the parse again.  As long as you are not totally sucking, and have proven your self in your guild you should be OK.

Even some of the more vocal necros on EQ2 flames are saying about the same thing right now.

i still do good dmg.  but the dmg im doing just does not justify the work im putting in..  so i would like some utility from SoE.      and you make a great point an established necro that has ben a guild is doing ok..   but what if your not?  is anyone that has a necro doomed to solo and pick up groups?

[KBern]

Yep hopefully they look at the pets and realize summoners are the only class that doesn't have some way to boost 100% of their DPS tools.

All other mages have their offensive spells boosted by + spell dmg and + spell crt.

We have ours only and not the pet.  They need to have summoners spell crits and plus to spell dmg work for the pet and we would be back to normal.

[Davngr1]

Saurakk@Guk wrote:

Yep hopefully they look at the pets and realize summoners are the only class that doesn't have some way to boost 100% of their DPS tools.

All other mages have their offensive spells boosted by + spell dmg and + spell crt.

We have ours only and not the pet.  They need to have summoners spell crits and plus to spell dmg work for the pet and we would be back to normal.

not to mention the fact that the T8 master mage pet only nukes for about 2% -5% more than the T7 master pet but, the master T7 pet hits for about 20% more dmg than the T6/T5 pet.  also our pets did not recive a new spell/CA as all pets have till this point

[Davngr1]

SoE DEVs   you left summoners about 2K ext DPS behind evryone and dint give them any real utillity to make up for that loss.   it's fine if expansions cater to certain classes more than others. there is nothing wrong with that, but you neglected summoners to the point where, what summoners  bring to the raid does not matter.  the only reason necros are still in raiding guilds is because they had ben in them for sometime.  

   The class needs more dmg or utillity.    all classes can solo and many can solo better than summoners, expecialy any mobs woth soloing.   you dont see too many necros soloing The Queen in chardrok do you?

  I'm not here only to ask for change with out offering suggestions. I think the wisdom line of summoner AA line should changed to a + CA/spell for pet and casting haste for the summoner.  After all,  all mages get a casting haste AA line why would summoners not get one?  i feel the changes are fair and should have ben made long ago.      

[Drager]

it seems like your prob is the pars. the guy must be a vary good player and most likely had alot of buffs on him.dont let it kill your time. if you pertend the pars dosent exist then it wont bother you

[bryldan]

Davngr1 wrote:

bryldan wrote:

Ya necros still do pretty good dps. Granted it is not like they were in t7 but still justifies them a spot in any raid with what they contribute to the raid. Hearts are very important to most named encounters in this game especially since some of them can last over 10 mins

 thre are so many regen items/gear in game and other classes that bring more regen,  equal personal dmg, better group buffs and raid wide buffs.   in that ten min encouter would you rather 2 healers and the tank get 10% mana regen..  or only one healer and the tank got 10% mana regen?

Then obviously you are not raiding much if you think they are not needed or wanted. Why is it that i see constant calls in raid for hearts... I guess they are just useless..

[Davngr1]

Drager@Nektulos wrote:

it seems like your prob is the pars. the guy must be a vary good player and most likely had alot of buffs on him.dont let it kill your time. if you pertend the pars dosent exist then it wont bother you

the parse not only exist but it's a HUGE part of rading with out it current encounters would be impossible.   so to as for it to be ignored is not even an option.

[Davngr1]

Drager@Nektulos wrote:double post..  sorry

[Davngr1]

bryldan wrote:

Davngr1 wrote:

bryldan wrote:

Ya necros still do pretty good dps. Granted it is not like they were in t7 but still justifies them a spot in any raid with what they contribute to the raid. Hearts are very important to most named encounters in this game especially since some of them can last over 10 mins

 thre are so many regen items/gear in game and other classes that bring more regen,  equal personal dmg, better group buffs and raid wide buffs.   in that ten min encouter would you rather 2 healers and the tank get 10% mana regen..  or only one healer and the tank got 10% mana regen?

Then obviously you are not raiding much if you think they are not needed or wanted. Why is it that i see constant calls in raid for hearts... I guess they are just useless..

yea because 80 mana every 4 seconds is raid breaking regen.