Rationale for non interuptible EVAC?

[Dreamz]

I am still pretty new to PVP having started in December.  I enjoy the game (and the Venekor server) and PVP adds a bit of something that keeps you on your toes.  My only complaint is with EVAC classes.  How is fair for them to engage in a fight and then use EVAC?  And if they use EVAC, why should it be non interuptible?  It allows them to attack and then decide ..oh well..I dont think I want to die..I picked on the wrong person?  For PVP..it doesn't make sense to me. Is there something I don't understand or am I wrong in describing how EVAC works?

[Norrsken]

Xhale@Venekor wrote:

I am still pretty new to PVP having started in December.  I enjoy the game (and the Venekor server) and PVP adds a bit of something that keeps you on your toes.  My only complaint is with EVAC classes.  How is fair for them to engage in a fight and then use EVAC?  And if they use EVAC, why should it be non interuptible?  It allows them to attack and then decide ..oh well..I dont think I want to die..I picked on the wrong person?  For PVP..it doesn't make sense to me. Is there something I don't understand or am I wrong in describing how EVAC works?

if you are engaged in pvp combat, you cannot use evac. you can still, however, be evaced by group members not in combat.

[Saintedone]

how can we gank you if you can evac??

I say bring back the wizzy evac as well and stop messin around, un-tie the casters hands her vrs the onslaught of scouts, give casters there real damage back and we can end the evacing right away.

But i guess the scouts would be up in arms and you would have to /bow to there 60-70% numbers vrs anything else on the servers.

Be well

[Gimet]

They run to get out of combat THEN evac.

[Grimfort]

Smoke vials allow use during combat.

[KatrinaDeath]

Grimfort wrote:

Smoke vials allow use during combat.

And they should... It is a smoke vial after all.Anyways my 2 cents... Evac shouldn't be castable once you get hit. And it should engage you in combat if you attampt to use it after being hit.

[Vilesummon]

Before a corporate yes-man assassin gets his two cents in telling you that scout evac can be easily countered...I will say that evac is becoming one of the hot topics for people. They are right, smoke vials can be used in combat. Bristlebane has the miracle that allows you to break combat, then use standard evac. Scouts can now be one of the most difficult updates to get because they can so easily decide the fights they will take.Yeah, we know Mr. Assassin, evac can easily be countered, know your terrain, use totems, carry lockets...etc. /yawn

[Raidyen]

Ulvhamne@Nagafen wrote:

Xhale@Venekor wrote:

I am still pretty new to PVP having started in December.  I enjoy the game (and the Venekor server) and PVP adds a bit of something that keeps you on your toes.  My only complaint is with EVAC classes.  How is fair for them to engage in a fight and then use EVAC?  And if they use EVAC, why should it be non interuptible?  It allows them to attack and then decide ..oh well..I dont think I want to die..I picked on the wrong person?  For PVP..it doesn't make sense to me. Is there something I don't understand or am I wrong in describing how EVAC works?

if you are engaged in pvp combat, you cannot use evac. you can still, however, be evaced by group members not in combat.

Not true anymore.  They fixed that in GU44.  Anyone in the scouts group that has engaged in pvp will not be taken with the evac.

[Norrsken]

Drocca@Venekor wrote:

Ulvhamne@Nagafen wrote:

Xhale@Venekor wrote:

I am still pretty new to PVP having started in December.  I enjoy the game (and the Venekor server) and PVP adds a bit of something that keeps you on your toes.  My only complaint is with EVAC classes.  How is fair for them to engage in a fight and then use EVAC?  And if they use EVAC, why should it be non interuptible?  It allows them to attack and then decide ..oh well..I dont think I want to die..I picked on the wrong person?  For PVP..it doesn't make sense to me. Is there something I don't understand or am I wrong in describing how EVAC works?

if you are engaged in pvp combat, you cannot use evac. you can still, however, be evaced by group members not in combat.

Not true anymore.  They fixed that in GU44.  Anyone in the scouts group that has engaged in pvp will not be taken with the evac.

Ah okay. I dont evac much so I didnt know.

[Bloodfa]

Ulvhamne@Nagafen wrote:

Drocca@Venekor wrote:

Ulvhamne@Nagafen wrote:

Xhale@Venekor wrote:

I am still pretty new to PVP having started in December.  I enjoy the game (and the Venekor server) and PVP adds a bit of something that keeps you on your toes.  My only complaint is with EVAC classes.  How is fair for them to engage in a fight and then use EVAC?  And if they use EVAC, why should it be non interuptible?  It allows them to attack and then decide ..oh well..I dont think I want to die..I picked on the wrong person?  For PVP..it doesn't make sense to me. Is there something I don't understand or am I wrong in describing how EVAC works?

if you are engaged in pvp combat, you cannot use evac. you can still, however, be evaced by group members not in combat.

Not true anymore.  They fixed that in GU44.  Anyone in the scouts group that has engaged in pvp will not be taken with the evac.

Ah okay. " width="15" height="15" /> I dont evac much so I didnt know. " width="15" height="15" />

Not mentioned at all in the Update Notes: http://eq2players.station.sony.com/...ils.vm?id=44000

But that would explain a few awkward evacs where our tank got dusted after my near-dead [Removed for Content] got evacced by the other scout in our trio.  Bad landing at a heavily reinforced Sokokar post.  [Removed for Content], ninja-tweaks should be posted.  Would have saved that "wtfwuzzatwhydidn'tyougetevacced?!" confusion.

[Dracot]

Vilesummon@Venekor wrote:

Before a corporate yes-man assassin gets his two cents in telling you that scout evac can be easily countered...I will say that evac is becoming one of the hot topics for people. They are right, smoke vials can be used in combat. Bristlebane has the miracle that allows you to break combat, then use standard evac. Scouts can now be one of the most difficult updates to get because they can so easily decide the fights they will take.Yeah, we know Mr. Assassin, evac can easily be countered, know your terrain, use totems, carry lockets...etc. /yawn

Hey Notso, ever try to stun a scout evac.  Love that PING RESIST dontcha? Nothing is easy unlesss your the scout, anyone who argues this would never for a second leave town without the saftey blankets provided to the predator classes.  Hopefully AOC requires skill vs retardmode. Eq2 has got no clue how to tune a pvp environment.

[Vilesummon]

Actually, Notso is my son, but we conducted an experiment together. We used a couple of level 70 toons (when that was cap) to try to stop an evac on a 25 assassin that I had. The verdict, scout evac is way too safe unlike the caster versions but really why have it at all in pvp. It is one thing to pick some group up on track and know you are outnumbered, but if you let them get close enough to hit you, you should be locked in combat and not able to get out of it. Track range is high in the first place, if they get in range to strike you, shame on you if you didn't want the fight.

[Bloodfa]

So what change to evac would make everybody happy?  Make it uninterruptable for all classes that have it?  Make it more interruptable on a scout?  Seriously, what change?  I mean, my ideal suggestion would be to make castable on the run for everybody.  Really, if you think about it, it's the most important thing on somebody's mind when about to get whacked, the whole Bugs Bunny "GET ME OUTTA HEEEERE!" thing.  But then I'd wager that every class that doesn't get an evac would probably just get more upset. 

Know what I'd love to see, actually?  A Q/FP faction item (something with a cost along the lines of a pumice stone) that allows the user (regardless of class) to sacrifice themself so that the group, excluding the user, could evac.  That is assuming the user hadn't done anything that would normally prevent them from evaccing.  Ensuring that the user dies (root them in place for 30 seconds, heheheh, just to screw with anyone planning on popping that, then Manashield) would keep it from being abused.  Call it an "Amulet of Martyrdom", or somesuch.  And get rid of perma-immunity upon evaccing, make it a minute, max.

Any thoughts one way or another? 

[Sightless]

My personal feelings about evac lately is to just remove evac, and track completely from the game.. PvP aspects that is. It would be insanely easy for me to stalk groups with my Ranger if I didn't have to worry about the groups scout tracking me with see stealth.

[Bloodfa]

If Evac ever goes bye-bye, then a lot more players are going to get steamrolled by superior numbers than happens now.  Bird camping would reach new heights.

[Shadow_Viper]

Here we go again. Another "This class used Y ability to escape, my gank group didn't get a kill, nerf it!" thread

Just because someone was able to escape from you using ability Y doesn't mean ability Y should be nerfed.

This is a PVP server, you will be defeated, you will have enemy players escape from you, you will kill enemy players and you will escape from enemy players. If someone can not accept this

Evac is preventable, try stunning and stifling the scout.

Remember each class has their own abilities, advantages, and disadvantages. If you're having problems with a certain class escaping from you, I highly suggest visiting your class boards and asking for advice/search for information on how you can counter/stop/prevent a member of that class from escaping from you. Adapt and overcome. Complaining about something until it gets changed to your liking will never make you a better player.

I am glad though that evac was changed so that an out of combat evaccer can no longer evac-out in-combat groupmates.

[Roald]

Make scout evac the same as Wizard/Sk/Warden, then remove all perma immunity from EQ2.

[Natthan]

Shadow,Stunning a scout when they started evac doesn't stop it, Stifling a scout when they start evac doesn't stop it, mezing the scout when they cast evac stops it but unless you hit them with a stun or stifle to break the mez it will start recasting right away. Give me a good way to stop a scout evac? Evac = Anti PvP Simple as that.I love how your a certain Master Assassins little pawn too, Its really cute.

[Taldier]

Bloodfang@Nagafen wrote:

So what change to evac would make everybody happy?  Make it uninterruptable for all classes that have it?  Make it more interruptable on a scout?  Seriously, what change?  I mean, my ideal suggestion would be to make castable on the run for everybody.  Really, if you think about it, it's the most important thing on somebody's mind when about to get whacked, the whole Bugs Bunny "GET ME OUTTA HEEEERE!" thing.  But then I'd wager that every class that doesn't get an evac would probably just get more upset. 

Everyone can get an evac.  In fact everyone can get uninterruptible evacs.  We all know how to carry multiple evacs around.  Those of us who want to get rid of or nerf evac are of that opinion because we are not cowardly little [Removed for Content].

Sure I could carry 4-5 different evacs around with me all the time and never die....but that defeats the entire purpose of being on a [Removed for Content] pvp server in the first place.  Many of us are [Removed for Content] off that we can go out solo and have other solos, duos, and even trios evac from us because they actually might die on a pvp server.  If you go out in a group other full groups can simply evac away to escape actually having to fight a real fight.

EVAC SERVES ABSOLUTELY NO PURPOSE OTHER THEN DISCOURAGING PVP.

For the inevitable response:Knowing where your evac button is on your hotbar is not knowing how to survive in pvp.  I will happily laugh in the face of any scout who thinks so.  As a person who has never and will never have an evac I manage to evade many of the full groups that come after me even if they see me and are chasing me.  This is because I learned how to play the game.

Survival in PvP = being aware of your surrondings + using your surrondings to escape and/or turn the battle in your favor.

Activating your teleportation system to vanish into thin air is NOT survival.  Its using PvE game mechanics to escape PvP even though YOU chose to roll on a PvP server.

[Roald]

Taldier@Venekor wrote:

EVAC SERVES ABSOLUTELY NO PURPOSE OTHER THEN DISCOURAGING PVP.

QFE.

[Sorffats]

The solution is simple.  Just make all evac's interuptable.  Scouts' evac should be made where it can't be cast on the run, but only when the scout is standing still.  Stuns, knockbacks, drags, interupts, etc. will all interupt it.

[Sightless]

Taldier@Venekor wrote:

Bloodfang@Nagafen wrote:

So what change to evac would make everybody happy?  Make it uninterruptable for all classes that have it?  Make it more interruptable on a scout?  Seriously, what change?  I mean, my ideal suggestion would be to make castable on the run for everybody.  Really, if you think about it, it's the most important thing on somebody's mind when about to get whacked, the whole Bugs Bunny "GET ME OUTTA HEEEERE!" thing.  But then I'd wager that every class that doesn't get an evac would probably just get more upset. 

Everyone can get an evac.  In fact everyone can get uninterruptible evacs.  We all know how to carry multiple evacs around.  Those of us who want to get rid of or nerf evac are of that opinion because we are not cowardly little [I cannot control my vocabulary].

Sure I could carry 4-5 different evacs around with me all the time and never die....but that defeats the entire purpose of being on a [I cannot control my vocabulary] pvp server in the first place.  Many of us are [Removed for Content] off that we can go out solo and have other solos, duos, and even trios evac from us because they actually might die on a pvp server.  If you go out in a group other full groups can simply evac away to escape actually having to fight a real fight.

EVAC SERVES ABSOLUTELY NO PURPOSE OTHER THEN DISCOURAGING PVP.

For the inevitable response:Knowing where your evac button is on your hotbar is not knowing how to survive in pvp.  I will happily laugh in the face of any scout who thinks so.  As a person who has never and will never have an evac I manage to evade many of the full groups that come after me even if they see me and are chasing me.  This is because I learned how to play the game.

Survival in PvP = being aware of your surrondings + using your surrondings to escape and/or turn the battle in your favor.

Activating your teleportation system to vanish into thin air is NOT survival.  Its using PvE game mechanics to escape PvP even though YOU chose to roll on a PvP server.

Running around in a full gank group isn't PvP, but you do it. It also discourages PvP when full gank groups are running around killing solo blues, or greens, even duo's and trios. But you do it. The PvP in this game is full of unpleasant experiences, like Bruisers dragging others into mobs, and FD.. But you wouldn't know anything about that would you Taldier? What's worse is their was an uprise when Rangers could hook shot people into mobs/guards, AND RANGERS COULDN'T FEIGN DEATH!

I'm all for taking away Evac, but first they need to make it so gank groups get minimal benefit for killing solo players, green con, blue con, or even equal level. There is zero skill in running around in gank groups killing lower numbers and levels. You're lucky to find another full group as stacked as yours in any given night on Venekor.

[Gimet]

Sightless wrote:

Taldier@Venekor wrote:

Bloodfang@Nagafen wrote:

So what change to evac would make everybody happy?  Make it uninterruptable for all classes that have it?  Make it more interruptable on a scout?  Seriously, what change?  I mean, my ideal suggestion would be to make castable on the run for everybody.  Really, if you think about it, it's the most important thing on somebody's mind when about to get whacked, the whole Bugs Bunny "GET ME OUTTA HEEEERE!" thing.  But then I'd wager that every class that doesn't get an evac would probably just get more upset. 

Everyone can get an evac.  In fact everyone can get uninterruptible evacs.  We all know how to carry multiple evacs around.  Those of us who want to get rid of or nerf evac are of that opinion because we are not cowardly little [I cannot control my vocabulary].

Sure I could carry 4-5 different evacs around with me all the time and never die....but that defeats the entire purpose of being on a [I cannot control my vocabulary] pvp server in the first place.  Many of us are [Removed for Content] off that we can go out solo and have other solos, duos, and even trios evac from us because they actually might die on a pvp server.  If you go out in a group other full groups can simply evac away to escape actually having to fight a real fight.

EVAC SERVES ABSOLUTELY NO PURPOSE OTHER THEN DISCOURAGING PVP.

For the inevitable response:Knowing where your evac button is on your hotbar is not knowing how to survive in pvp.  I will happily laugh in the face of any scout who thinks so.  As a person who has never and will never have an evac I manage to evade many of the full groups that come after me even if they see me and are chasing me.  This is because I learned how to play the game.

Survival in PvP = being aware of your surrondings + using your surrondings to escape and/or turn the battle in your favor.

Activating your teleportation system to vanish into thin air is NOT survival.  Its using PvE game mechanics to escape PvP even though YOU chose to roll on a PvP server.

Running around in a full gank group isn't PvP, but you do it. It also discourages PvP when full gank groups are running around killing solo blues, or greens, even duo's and trios. But you do it. The PvP in this game is full of unpleasant experiences, like Bruisers dragging others into mobs, and FD.. But you wouldn't know anything about that would you Taldier? What's worse is their was an uprise when Rangers could hook shot people into mobs/guards, AND RANGERS COULDN'T FEIGN DEATH!

I'm all for taking away Evac, but first they need to make it so gank groups get minimal benefit for killing solo players, green con, blue con, or even equal level. There is zero skill in running around in gank groups killing lower numbers and levels. You're lucky to find another full group as stacked as yours in any given night on Venekor.

I've done a thread about gank groups before...I can link it if you'd like.

Simple answer to yoru request, no. Mages, fighters, and priests....let's say a Majority of the classes do not have evac. Where was the reduction of anything for us this whole time others could evac? Make the evac interruptable, fair enough. But just because you guys lose the ability to run from gank groups, something everyone else COULDN'T do, does not change this statement....

You run solo, you risk being killed.

Grouping is a viable option, FOR ALL, no matter class or skill not to be killed. Grouping is also important for many aspects of the game. If you discourage grouping, whether they kill the poor soloists or not, you're empowering Scouts once again.

[Taldier]

Sightless wrote:

Running around in a full gank group isn't PvP, but you do it. It also discourages PvP when full gank groups are running around killing solo blues, or greens, even duo's and trios. But you do it. The PvP in this game is full of unpleasant experiences, like Bruisers dragging others into mobs, and FD.. But you wouldn't know anything about that would you Taldier? What's worse is their was an uprise when Rangers could hook shot people into mobs/guards, AND RANGERS COULDN'T FEIGN DEATH!

I have never dragged a solo player into agro.  I have used drag to fight back against groups while Im solo and see absolutely no problem with that.  Honestly the only way in which drag is actually useful is if you can use a piece of terrain (canyon, cliff, steep hill, etc) to seperate someone from their group and fight them.  Of course this only works if they dont run away, most of the time they jump to their death or evac the moment they find themselves 30 feet away from their group.

As for your mention of ranger's hookshot, I beleive that change was made because lowbie rangers were using it to pull other lowbies into guards.  Bruisers cant do the same thing until t7 at which point there arent really any guards and you've hopefully learned to not blindly follow any brawler into agro.  If a t8 ranger wants hookshot back I really doubt anyone would care.

I'm all for taking away Evac, but first they need to make it so gank groups get minimal benefit for killing solo players, green con, blue con, or even equal level. There is zero skill in running around in gank groups killing lower numbers and levels.

I agree with this sentiment 100%.  In fact if you look at my forum postings you will find that I made the exact same suggestion and even designed a numeric based reward system for it.

You're lucky to find another full group as stacked as yours in any given night on Venekor.

Absolutely hilarious!  Would you mind listing the names of this supposed gank group?  Guess its a little bit hard since your just pulling it all out of your [I cannot control my vocabulary] ehh?  Yeah I thought so.  Just cause I occasionally attack full groups while Im solo doesnt mean I actually count as a full group all by myself.

Funny but are you sure you dont have me confused with someone else?

I mean seriously... I think the last time I actually had a full group for pvp was like a couple weeks ago, and there was a x3 of q's in the zone at that time.

[Norrsken]

Natthan@Venekor wrote:

Shadow,Stunning a scout when they started evac doesn't stop it, Stifling a scout when they start evac doesn't stop it, mezing the scout when they cast evac stops it but unless you hit them with a stun or stifle to break the mez it will start recasting right away. Give me a good way to stop a scout evac? Evac = Anti PvP Simple as that.I love how your a certain Master Assassins little pawn too, Its really cute.

Actually, I managed to stop a scout from evacing with a pure stun a few days ago. I were pretty [Removed for Content] surprised when it worked.

[Bloodfa]

Ulvhamne@Nagafen wrote:

Natthan@Venekor wrote:

Shadow,Stunning a scout when they started evac doesn't stop it, Stifling a scout when they start evac doesn't stop it, mezing the scout when they cast evac stops it but unless you hit them with a stun or stifle to break the mez it will start recasting right away. Give me a good way to stop a scout evac? Evac = Anti PvP Simple as that.I love how your a certain Master Assassins little pawn too, Its really cute.

Actually, I managed to stop a scout from evacing with a pure stun a few days ago. I were pretty [I cannot control my vocabulary] surprised when it worked.

Surprises the crap outta the Scouts when it happens and it's not a Brig doing it.

[Dracot]

Eragahn@Nagafen wrote:

The solution is simple.  Just make all evac's interuptable.  Scouts' evac should be made where it can't be cast on the run, but only when the scout is standing still.  Stuns, knockbacks, drags, interupts, etc. will all interupt it.

Be careful, thinking like this will get scout on these forums upset and we'll see a 30 page thread whining about a PROPOSED idea in 2 days. You cannot make a scout actually use a skillbased strategy, its not in the CLASS LORE.

[Bloodfa]

Careful, Dracot ... you'll lose those Scouts that do want to see changes made to the game with broad statements like that.  I've got no problem championing the cause of improving somebody elses class, but not at the expense of anybody elses, especially my own.  Self preservation and all that.

[Raidyen]

Taldier@Venekor wrote:

Bloodfang@Nagafen wrote:

So what change to evac would make everybody happy?  Make it uninterruptable for all classes that have it?  Make it more interruptable on a scout?  Seriously, what change?  I mean, my ideal suggestion would be to make castable on the run for everybody.  Really, if you think about it, it's the most important thing on somebody's mind when about to get whacked, the whole Bugs Bunny "GET ME OUTTA HEEEERE!" thing.  But then I'd wager that every class that doesn't get an evac would probably just get more upset. 

Everyone can get an evac.  In fact everyone can get uninterruptible evacs.  We all know how to carry multiple evacs around.  Those of us who want to get rid of or nerf evac are of that opinion because we are not cowardly little [I cannot control my vocabulary].

Sure I could carry 4-5 different evacs around with me all the time and never die....but that defeats the entire purpose of being on a [I cannot control my vocabulary] pvp server in the first place.  Many of us are [Removed for Content] off that we can go out solo and have other solos, duos, and even trios evac from us because they actually might die on a pvp server.  If you go out in a group other full groups can simply evac away to escape actually having to fight a real fight.

EVAC SERVES ABSOLUTELY NO PURPOSE OTHER THEN DISCOURAGING PVP.

For the inevitable response:Knowing where your evac button is on your hotbar is not knowing how to survive in pvp.  I will happily laugh in the face of any scout who thinks so.  As a person who has never and will never have an evac I manage to evade many of the full groups that come after me even if they see me and are chasing me.  This is because I learned how to play the game.

Survival in PvP = being aware of your surrondings + using your surrondings to escape and/or turn the battle in your favor.

Activating your teleportation system to vanish into thin air is NOT survival.  Its using PvE game mechanics to escape PvP even though YOU chose to roll on a PvP server.

Tell you what Taldier, They take away the Bruisers ability to drag people into mobs then FD, ill agree to taking out evac's.  Do NOT come here pretending to be some big promoter of PvP when you yourself use tactics like these in T8 in order to wipe out full groups.  The only defense to this tactic sometimes IS to evac.  Its players like yourself that use cheap tactics and game exploits that discourage PvP, not evac.

[Shadow_Viper]

Natthan@Venekor wrote:

Shadow,Stunning a scout when they started evac doesn't stop it, Stifling a scout when they start evac doesn't stop it, mezing the scout when they cast evac stops it but unless you hit them with a stun or stifle to break the mez it will start recasting right away. Give me a good way to stop a scout evac? Evac = Anti PvP Simple as that.I love how your a certain Master Assassins little pawn too, Its really cute.

So you stun and stifle a scout before they have a chance to cast evac, pretty simple.

If you need any other advice on tactics to use against a scout, I highly suggest visiting your class boards, they really are a great resource.

So because you disagree with my opinions I'm now a pawn of some kind?