New Player: Brigand/Swashbuckler Analysis

EQ2noob · 02-15-2008, 03:11 PM

Dear EQ2 Players,

I am brand new to EQ2. After 3+ years of World of Warcraft, I have made the leap of faith and decided to switch my hobbies from World of Warcraft to Everquest 2. I cannot describe how excited I am about the upcoming adventures and look forward learning, exploring and playing EQ2.

I have spent probably a dozen of hours reading and studying the classes and tried playing a few to level 10 or so to see various styles. I believe the scout class is the class for me. Out of the four scout types, I have narrowed it down to two - Swashbuckler and Brigand. I was wondering what you would recommend for a new player. Here is what I know (please correct me if any of what is below is wrong).

Swashbucklers and brigands have the easiest time soloing out of all scout classes.
Swashbucklers and brigands do less DPS (by a noticeable margin) than Assassins or Rangers but bring more utility (group and solo).
Swashbucklers and brigands are welcome in groups as DPS/Utility and generally do not have hard time finding groups.
Swashbucklers and brigands have end-game raiding potential for their DPS/Utility and have a well-defined raid role (DPS + Debuff).

Swashbucklers vs. Brigands

Less stuns.
Less useful debuffs.
Better ability to take blows (due to offensive debuffs).
SIGNIFICANTLY better ability to do damage to multiple targets.

(What am I missing? What else distinguishes the classes?)

Brigands vs. Swashbucklers

More stuns.
More useful debuffs.
Worse ability to take blows (due to defense debuffs).
SOMEWHAT better ability to do damage to single targets.

(What am I missing? What else distinguishes the classes?)

Questions:

Who is easier to solo? (Brigands can stun lock heroics. Can Swashbucklers stunlock heroics? Brigands do poorly on multiple mob encounters. Can Swashbucklers do well on multiple mob encounters consistently?)
Which class is cheaper to outfit? (Since armor/weapons will probably be the same, I am asking which class has generally cheaper Adept III CAs.)
Who is more wanted in groups?
Who is more wanted in raids? (I understand that brigands are more wanted in raids due to the ability to do dispatch rotation.)
What are your final thoughts on brigand/swashbuckler as a 1-80 class for a new player?

ANY OTHER FEEDBACK/THOUGHTS? (And yes, I realize swashbucklers have way cooler hats. )

I know it's a lot of questions but I would appreciate the feedback. (There may be other new players out there who have the same questions and this would be very helpful to have.)

Thank you in advance!

EQ2noob

Kursa · 02-15-2008, 03:29 PM

EQ2noob wrote:

Dear EQ2 Players,
Swashbucklers and brigands have the easiest time soloing out of all scout classes.
         Yes.
Swashbucklers and brigands do less DPS (by a noticeable margin) than Assassins or Rangers but bring more utility (group and solo).
           Some will disagree. I can out DPS on my Brigand than any Ranger
Swashbucklers and brigands are welcome in groups as DPS/Utility and generally do not have hard time finding groups.
          Well, any class will have no problem getting into groups. But, yes, brigands (more specifically) does bring a small gift of unbuffing mobs to the fight.
Swashbucklers and brigands have end-game raiding potential for their DPS/Utility and have a well-defined raid role (DPS + Debuff).
         Yes
Swashbucklers vs. Brigands
Less stuns.
Less useful debuffs.
Better ability to take blows (due to offensive debuffs).
SIGNIFICANTLY better ability to do damage to multiple targets.
Pretty much on target there
Brigands vs. Swashbucklers
More stuns.
More useful debuffs.
Worse ability to take blows (due to defense debuffs).
SOMEWHAT better ability to do damage to single targets.
I found Brigands can take more punishment but others, Im sure, will disagree
(What am I missing? What else distinguishes the classes?)
Questions:
Who is easier to solo? (Brigands can stun lock heroics. Can Swashbucklers stunlock heroics? Brigands do poorly on multiple mob encounters. Can Swashbucklers do well on multiple mob encounters consistently?)
        Lots of people will tell you Brigands can solo faster than Swashbucklers. Ive got both at very high levels. My Brigand lvled much faster (but not by much). Both are very good classes to solo with. Then again so is every class in EQ2 lol but at different lengths of time.
Which class is cheaper to outfit? (Since armor/weapons will probably be the same, I am asking which class has generally cheaper Adept III CAs.)
       I found that both are equally the same cost to outfit. In terms of which class is the most expensive, I would say Necromancers and Wizards
Who is more wanted in groups?
      You'll have no problems whatsoever if you picked a Swash or a Brigand in terms of desirability. It's pretty much 50/50 there
Who is more wanted in raids? (I understand that brigands are more wanted in raids due to the ability to do dispatch rotation.)
      Same as above
What are your final thoughts on brigand/swashbuckler as a 1-80 class for a new player?
      There isn't enough difference between a swash and a brigand as compared to a Paladin and Shadowknight. Both classes (rogues) can DPS very well, both are liked and both can be seen in raids and groups.
I have both classes. The only reason why i have both isnt beause of the utility differences but because of the alignment difference (which is purely cosmetic).
ANY OTHER FEEDBACK/THOUGHTS? (And yes, I realize swashbucklers have way cooler hats. )
lol. Just pick one and have fun!
I know it's a lot of questions but I would appreciate the feedback. (There may be other new players out there who have the same questions and this would be very helpful to have.)
Thank you in advance!
EQ2noob

Valalor · 02-15-2008, 03:30 PM

Im probly not going to be much help here for i'm neather of those classes. but i am a scout.. I play a Ranger and find its very easy to solo...

But as for adepts and armor.. again not sure what kind of armor those scouts where, if its chain or leather.. You'll find chain is always more expenisve for the mastercrafted gear requires rare ore and rare ore is spendy... leather is cheaper, you can get a piece for normaly 20-80gold, the chain, is like 80+... adepts, again arent to bad till higher lvl... like 70-80 the rare loam (which come from ore nodes like the ores do) go for like 6plat... but before then still not bad.. If you harvest the rares. you will more then likely find someone that can make it for cheap.. even buying the rare sometimes and have someone make it for you will be cheaper then buying the gear from the broker directly. Like for me, in my guild we have metal armor makers, woodsworker and such up to 80.. so i just need rares and fuel costs.. im a tailor in the 40s right now so people in my guild dont have to worry bout that till they get higher in lvl..

But as for class. i'm not sure.. but if you do pick a scout. welcome to the scout class, and dont listen to the other rangers... they wine to much SMILEY you'll see what i'm talking about.

ke'la · 02-15-2008, 03:59 PM

I would have to say pick a race you like and go with the class that can be that race, because only Evil and Neutral Races can be a Brigand and only Good and Neutral Races can be a Swashbuckler, however if you choose a Neutral race I would pick Brigand over Swash because they can start in TD/Garowin wich is by far the best place to lvl 1-20 with rewards that can carry you into the 30s.

As far as DPS goes YES Swash and Brig are SUPPOSED to do slightly less CLOCKED dps then a Ranger or Assasin, however in practous it comes down to the gear and skill the player posseses as to wich does more clocked DPS. Now what do I mean by clocked dps, well what I mean is on parces if everything is equil(and it's not just ask the rangers) Assasins and Rangers parce better then a Swash or Brig, However, what is not factored into the equation is the large number of Debuffs both classes have, wich raises the total DPS of the group/raid. Both Swash and Brig do debuff against Melee attacks, however Brigs have more melee debuffs then Swashs, while swashes have some nice debuffs to defence against attacks from Mages, so Brigs are better at upping the damage output of Melee classes while Swashs can up the damage output of Mage classes, while at the same time lowering the amount of damage your tank takes.

Also remember if you plan on getting into a Raiding and your guild already has plenty of say Swashbucklers you can always betray your caractor and become a Brigand or Visa Versa, just remember if you do betray* all your combate art upgrades reset to app1 or go away if over lvl 50.

*betraying is moving from an evil city to a good one, or visa versa(kinda like going from the Alliance to the Horde), this allows you to swich your class to that alinements equivilant(or in the case of neutral classes choose the other class). This is at the cost of having all your skills reset however. You can also move between cities of the same allinment(a differant far easier quest) this does not let you swich classes but you do get to keep all your spell upgrades.

EQ2noob · 02-15-2008, 04:25 PM

ke'la wrote:

I would have to say pick a race you like and go with the class that can be that race, because only Evil and Neutral Races can be a Brigand and only Good and Neutral Races can be a Swashbuckler, however if you choose a Neutral race I would pick Brigand over Swash because they can start in TD/Garowin wich is by far the best place to lvl 1-20 with rewards that can carry you into the 30s.

It does look like Dark Elves and Ratonga have the best racials for a brigand, but I don't think I can bear to look at a ratonga or DE character for very long. I think humans / wood-elves are my cup of tea, but then wood-elves hardly bring any racial traits to swashbucklers. Le sigh.

Meribor · 02-15-2008, 04:26 PM

A couple months ago I created an Arasai brigand just to do the betrayal questline since I had never done it before and wanted to try playing rogue. Fell in love with her and now my Arasai swashbuckler is my main character and no intention of betraying back. Don't think you can go wrong with either class in my not so humble opinion. So pick the one that appeals to you.As for recommending Timorous Deep for leveling 1-20, I'll agree though any race and alignment can easily get to Gorowyn via the Sinking Sands carpets (evil goes direct and good can take the griffon near the Butcherblock docks) and run to the Timorous Deep starter area.

Dreadpatch · 02-15-2008, 04:41 PM

gnone swashbucker ftw....

Kursa · 02-15-2008, 08:27 PM

ke'la wrote:

I would have to say pick a race you like and go with the class that can be that race, because only Evil and Neutral Races can be a Brigand and only Good and Neutral Races can be a Swashbuckler, however if you choose a Neutral race I would pick Brigand over Swash because they can start in TD/Garowin wich is by far the best place to lvl 1-20 with rewards that can carry you into the 30s.

Ah but you can bring a lvl 1 swashy to TD to level. I did it with my ranger and illusionist.

Tommara · 02-16-2008, 08:58 AM

Well, I can't answer any of those questions except about the Adept III CA's, since I can make those.

The cost is the same. But I don't bother making either one, since they are hard to sell compared to the jewelry that I can also make. I can make more by selling the ingredients.

You'll find prices at extreme ranges for both. You can find some bargains from those of us who just want them out of our inventory, made them for grinding crafting exp, and some steep prices from those with greater patience.

Castonu · 02-16-2008, 12:13 PM

EQ2noob wrote:

ke'la wrote:
It does look like Dark Elves and Ratonga have the best racials for a brigand, but I don't think I can bear to look at a ratonga or DE character for very long. I think humans / wood-elves are my cup of tea, but then wood-elves hardly bring any racial traits to swashbucklers. Le sigh.

Hehe...don't let the dark elves fool ya...we know we are the superior race!!!

02-15-2008, 03:11 PM	#1
EQ2noob Loremaster Join Date: Feb 2008 Posts: 24	Dear EQ2 Players, I am brand new to EQ2. After 3+ years of World of Warcraft, I have made the leap of faith and decided to switch my hobbies from World of Warcraft to Everquest 2. I cannot describe how excited I am about the upcoming adventures and look forward learning, exploring and playing EQ2. I have spent probably a dozen of hours reading and studying the classes and tried playing a few to level 10 or so to see various styles. I believe the scout class is the class for me. Out of the four scout types, I have narrowed it down to two - Swashbuckler and Brigand. I was wondering what you would recommend for a new player. Here is what I know (please correct me if any of what is below is wrong). Swashbucklers and brigands have the easiest time soloing out of all scout classes. Swashbucklers and brigands do less DPS (by a noticeable margin) than Assassins or Rangers but bring more utility (group and solo). Swashbucklers and brigands are welcome in groups as DPS/Utility and generally do not have hard time finding groups. Swashbucklers and brigands have end-game raiding potential for their DPS/Utility and have a well-defined raid role (DPS + Debuff). Swashbucklers vs. Brigands Less stuns. Less useful debuffs. Better ability to take blows (due to offensive debuffs). SIGNIFICANTLY better ability to do damage to multiple targets. (What am I missing? What else distinguishes the classes?) Brigands vs. Swashbucklers More stuns. More useful debuffs. Worse ability to take blows (due to defense debuffs). SOMEWHAT better ability to do damage to single targets. (What am I missing? What else distinguishes the classes?) Questions: Who is easier to solo? (Brigands can stun lock heroics. Can Swashbucklers stunlock heroics? Brigands do poorly on multiple mob encounters. Can Swashbucklers do well on multiple mob encounters consistently?) Which class is cheaper to outfit? (Since armor/weapons will probably be the same, I am asking which class has generally cheaper Adept III CAs.) Who is more wanted in groups? Who is more wanted in raids? (I understand that brigands are more wanted in raids due to the ability to do dispatch rotation.) What are your final thoughts on brigand/swashbuckler as a 1-80 class for a new player? ANY OTHER FEEDBACK/THOUGHTS? (And yes, I realize swashbucklers have way cooler hats. ) I know it's a lot of questions but I would appreciate the feedback. (There may be other new players out there who have the same questions and this would be very helpful to have.) Thank you in advance! EQ2noob

02-15-2008, 03:29 PM	#2
Kursa Loremaster Join Date: Nov 2004 Posts: 345	EQ2noob wrote: Dear EQ2 Players, Swashbucklers and brigands have the easiest time soloing out of all scout classes. Yes. Swashbucklers and brigands do less DPS (by a noticeable margin) than Assassins or Rangers but bring more utility (group and solo). Some will disagree. I can out DPS on my Brigand than any Ranger Swashbucklers and brigands are welcome in groups as DPS/Utility and generally do not have hard time finding groups. Well, any class will have no problem getting into groups. But, yes, brigands (more specifically) does bring a small gift of unbuffing mobs to the fight. Swashbucklers and brigands have end-game raiding potential for their DPS/Utility and have a well-defined raid role (DPS + Debuff). Yes Swashbucklers vs. Brigands Less stuns. Less useful debuffs. Better ability to take blows (due to offensive debuffs). SIGNIFICANTLY better ability to do damage to multiple targets. Pretty much on target there Brigands vs. Swashbucklers More stuns. More useful debuffs. Worse ability to take blows (due to defense debuffs). SOMEWHAT better ability to do damage to single targets. I found Brigands can take more punishment but others, Im sure, will disagree (What am I missing? What else distinguishes the classes?) Questions: Who is easier to solo? (Brigands can stun lock heroics. Can Swashbucklers stunlock heroics? Brigands do poorly on multiple mob encounters. Can Swashbucklers do well on multiple mob encounters consistently?) Lots of people will tell you Brigands can solo faster than Swashbucklers. Ive got both at very high levels. My Brigand lvled much faster (but not by much). Both are very good classes to solo with. Then again so is every class in EQ2 lol but at different lengths of time. Which class is cheaper to outfit? (Since armor/weapons will probably be the same, I am asking which class has generally cheaper Adept III CAs.) I found that both are equally the same cost to outfit. In terms of which class is the most expensive, I would say Necromancers and Wizards Who is more wanted in groups? You'll have no problems whatsoever if you picked a Swash or a Brigand in terms of desirability. It's pretty much 50/50 there Who is more wanted in raids? (I understand that brigands are more wanted in raids due to the ability to do dispatch rotation.) Same as above What are your final thoughts on brigand/swashbuckler as a 1-80 class for a new player? There isn't enough difference between a swash and a brigand as compared to a Paladin and Shadowknight. Both classes (rogues) can DPS very well, both are liked and both can be seen in raids and groups. I have both classes. The only reason why i have both isnt beause of the utility differences but because of the alignment difference (which is purely cosmetic). ANY OTHER FEEDBACK/THOUGHTS? (And yes, I realize swashbucklers have way cooler hats. ) lol. Just pick one and have fun! I know it's a lot of questions but I would appreciate the feedback. (There may be other new players out there who have the same questions and this would be very helpful to have.) Thank you in advance! EQ2noob __________________

02-15-2008, 03:30 PM	#3
Valalor Loremaster Join Date: Dec 2007 Posts: 80	Im probly not going to be much help here for i'm neather of those classes. but i am a scout.. I play a Ranger and find its very easy to solo... But as for adepts and armor.. again not sure what kind of armor those scouts where, if its chain or leather.. You'll find chain is always more expenisve for the mastercrafted gear requires rare ore and rare ore is spendy... leather is cheaper, you can get a piece for normaly 20-80gold, the chain, is like 80+... adepts, again arent to bad till higher lvl... like 70-80 the rare loam (which come from ore nodes like the ores do) go for like 6plat... but before then still not bad.. If you harvest the rares. you will more then likely find someone that can make it for cheap.. even buying the rare sometimes and have someone make it for you will be cheaper then buying the gear from the broker directly. Like for me, in my guild we have metal armor makers, woodsworker and such up to 80.. so i just need rares and fuel costs.. im a tailor in the 40s right now so people in my guild dont have to worry bout that till they get higher in lvl.. But as for class. i'm not sure.. but if you do pick a scout. welcome to the scout class, and dont listen to the other rangers... they wine to much you'll see what i'm talking about. __________________ Mistmoore lvl 80 Ranger Companions of Twilight

02-15-2008, 03:59 PM	#4
ke'la Loremaster Join Date: Dec 2004 Posts: 5,445	I would have to say pick a race you like and go with the class that can be that race, because only Evil and Neutral Races can be a Brigand and only Good and Neutral Races can be a Swashbuckler, however if you choose a Neutral race I would pick Brigand over Swash because they can start in TD/Garowin wich is by far the best place to lvl 1-20 with rewards that can carry you into the 30s. As far as DPS goes YES Swash and Brig are SUPPOSED to do slightly less CLOCKED dps then a Ranger or Assasin, however in practous it comes down to the gear and skill the player posseses as to wich does more clocked DPS. Now what do I mean by clocked dps, well what I mean is on parces if everything is equil(and it's not just ask the rangers) Assasins and Rangers parce better then a Swash or Brig, However, what is not factored into the equation is the large number of Debuffs both classes have, wich raises the total DPS of the group/raid. Both Swash and Brig do debuff against Melee attacks, however Brigs have more melee debuffs then Swashs, while swashes have some nice debuffs to defence against attacks from Mages, so Brigs are better at upping the damage output of Melee classes while Swashs can up the damage output of Mage classes, while at the same time lowering the amount of damage your tank takes. Also remember if you plan on getting into a Raiding and your guild already has plenty of say Swashbucklers you can always betray your caractor and become a Brigand or Visa Versa, just remember if you do betray* all your combate art upgrades reset to app1 or go away if over lvl 50. *betraying is moving from an evil city to a good one, or visa versa(kinda like going from the Alliance to the Horde), this allows you to swich your class to that alinements equivilant(or in the case of neutral classes choose the other class). This is at the cost of having all your skills reset however. You can also move between cities of the same allinment(a differant far easier quest) this does not let you swich classes but you do get to keep all your spell upgrades. __________________

02-15-2008, 04:25 PM	#5
EQ2noob Loremaster Join Date: Feb 2008 Posts: 24	ke'la wrote: I would have to say pick a race you like and go with the class that can be that race, because only Evil and Neutral Races can be a Brigand and only Good and Neutral Races can be a Swashbuckler, however if you choose a Neutral race I would pick Brigand over Swash because they can start in TD/Garowin wich is by far the best place to lvl 1-20 with rewards that can carry you into the 30s. It does look like Dark Elves and Ratonga have the best racials for a brigand, but I don't think I can bear to look at a ratonga or DE character for very long. I think humans / wood-elves are my cup of tea, but then wood-elves hardly bring any racial traits to swashbucklers. Le sigh.

02-15-2008, 04:26 PM	#6
Meribor Tester Join Date: Jul 2005 Posts: 25	A couple months ago I created an Arasai brigand just to do the betrayal questline since I had never done it before and wanted to try playing rogue. Fell in love with her and now my Arasai swashbuckler is my main character and no intention of betraying back. Don't think you can go wrong with either class in my not so humble opinion. So pick the one that appeals to you.As for recommending Timorous Deep for leveling 1-20, I'll agree though any race and alignment can easily get to Gorowyn via the Sinking Sands carpets (evil goes direct and good can take the griffon near the Butcherblock docks) and run to the Timorous Deep starter area.

02-15-2008, 04:41 PM	#7
Dreadpatch Loremaster Join Date: Dec 2007 Posts: 575	gnone swashbucker ftw.... __________________ Elusion 90 Coercer 250 AA Alendril 90 Troubador 250 AA Ribatio 90 Mystic 242 AA Dreadpatch 90 Swashbuckler 171 AA Delanar 70 Guardian Blackghost 39 (BG) Assassin

02-15-2008, 08:27 PM	#8
Kursa Loremaster Join Date: Nov 2004 Posts: 345	ke'la wrote: I would have to say pick a race you like and go with the class that can be that race, because only Evil and Neutral Races can be a Brigand and only Good and Neutral Races can be a Swashbuckler, however if you choose a Neutral race I would pick Brigand over Swash because they can start in TD/Garowin wich is by far the best place to lvl 1-20 with rewards that can carry you into the 30s. Ah but you can bring a lvl 1 swashy to TD to level. I did it with my ranger and illusionist. __________________

02-16-2008, 08:58 AM	#9
Tommara Loremaster Join Date: Dec 2006 Posts: 301	Well, I can't answer any of those questions except about the Adept III CA's, since I can make those. The cost is the same. But I don't bother making either one, since they are hard to sell compared to the jewelry that I can also make. I can make more by selling the ingredients. You'll find prices at extreme ranges for both. You can find some bargains from those of us who just want them out of our inventory, made them for grinding crafting exp, and some steep prices from those with greater patience.

02-16-2008, 12:13 PM	#10
Castonu Loremaster Join Date: May 2005 Posts: 220	EQ2noob wrote: ke'la wrote: It does look like Dark Elves and Ratonga have the best racials for a brigand, but I don't think I can bear to look at a ratonga or DE character for very long. I think humans / wood-elves are my cup of tea, but then wood-elves hardly bring any racial traits to swashbucklers. Le sigh. Hehe...don't let the dark elves fool ya...we know we are the superior race!!!