It's not the # of kills per writ, it's endless kills without an update.

Izzypop · 02-14-2008, 07:50 PM

Some group based classes are ok with the new writs because they never knew what a token looked like before PvP writs came out.

Most group based classes needed 30 kills in a 6 way split to earn 5 tokens.

So for a completely group dependend class if it takes an average of 15 to 20 kills to generate 5 tokens things are still looking up for them.

Good pre writ solo token generating classses took a huge hit in the writ patch.

They should have to deal with their token rate being ballanced with other classes. It's only fair.

But nobody should have to deal with the maddening frustration of needed a class specific kill and having no idea how long it will take.

Sometimes it takes as little as 5 kills per update.

Most of the time players get stuck on needed 1 specific class kill.

It could take 1 more kill to get that update.

It could take 5 more kills to get that update.

It could take 10 more kills to get that update.

It could take 20 more kills to get that update.

It could take 50 more kills to get that update.

You just don't know, and it all amounts to dumb stupid luck unless you're pulling a cheap trick

like running around with tracking open and are duel boxing eq2 players,

or duel boxing a spy doing a /who then looking everybody up on eq2 players.

People have good days where they finish a writ in 6 to 8 kills, but every player will also have a bad luck streak where they go over 50 kills without getting the class they need. Every kills without an update just makes them angrier and angrier because they are helpless. It would be one thing if the writs demanded 15 or 20 kills to earn 5 tokens. It's another to demand 5 kills and then make you get another 20 on the technicallity that you were no lucky enough to kill the right classes. That just builds up hope, only to crush it.

There are a lot of things you can say to a player who looses fights in eq2 (L2P) , but what do you say to players who win fights all the time but fail to get updates? It's one thing to loose because you're new, you suck, or you choose to run solo/in a small group and you run into a larger group of players. That's just the nature of the game.

It's 100% unaccacpetable to loose when you win.

Every time a player gets a PvP kill without an update they pull defeat out of the jaws of victory. It's far more maddening to not get a class update than having a player not drop a chest, or having another player ninja loot your token. The problems of the old system were also upsetting, but they did not tend to happen 5, 10, 15, 20, 25, 30, 35, 40, 45, or 50+ times in a row with no progression made, and that's what has made the city players into an angry mob looking for the nearest dev.

KaiZas · 02-14-2008, 11:14 PM

You're right. I've been walking around with the same writ for days now. I'm not an extremely active pvp player. I do my quests, trying to gain 80 (which I did tonight, YAY!) and get my AA to 140. I take the PvP that comes my way. I see 'em, I run after them, that's how it works for me. It's a secondary goal for now. I tried to pick a pvp-writ that would be "easy" to fill. A warden and an assassin. Shouldn't be too hard, right? Wrong. Haven't seen an assassin for days now. Had me a serious kill streak going too, so it's not like I haven't made plenty of kills. Just didn't get lucky. I'm sitting on 53 measly tokens. That number has been static since they took out the exiles. Go figure. By the time I got my first piece, it's gonna be hello Tier 9.

Dojac · 02-15-2008, 03:47 AM

Lol, I picked up a writ with a warden and SK. Wandered around for 4 full days with 5 kills plus the warden kill. Continued to kill over that 4 day period and got 0 updates. I didn't even see an SK (much to my surprise, apparently they're not worth playing once you take HT outa the picture) over those 4 days. I decided screw it I'll re roll the writ.....Of course you know what happened......The very next kill was a SK. Not sayin the writs should get easier, I'm just saying they should get less frustrating. Not my fault my Illy cant track down a SK.

Spyderbite · 02-15-2008, 04:23 AM

My level 20 Fury completed 2 writs inside of 4 hours the other day. Just hanging around the Nek docks killing crabs. Didn't have to attack a soul. They attacked her. Go figure.Not sure if this is a Tier specific issue, but the T3-T5 seem to have plenty of targets on both sides out looking for each other. I can see where this might be an issue where the targets are more sparse though in T7-T8 or the targets harder to kill or both.Regardless, I hope class specific requirements are removed just like everyone else. Sitting on a Troubadour writ for 3 days on my brigand. :/

-Arctura- · 02-15-2008, 06:47 AM

(( yes. I wouldnt mind a writ for 500 kills, earn 200 tokens w/e. even for 100 tokens. (extreme example!)Aside from kvds and kill streaks, if you cant find the right class online, the kills are going to waste.

Faenril · 02-15-2008, 06:49 AM

Spyder, this is somewhat a tier specific issue, because tokens (= writs) are the only way to get pvp stuff end game (T7/T SMILEY

.On top of that, yes targets are more sparse end game, yes they know more how to avoid dying (or care more about not dying let's say), and ROK zones are wide. Most of the content is instanciated once you are done with the "solo questing part" (and most of the 80 population already is).So, on Veny in T8 zones you will find:- few players still questing/leveling (coz they are casual players or it's an alt).- few solo/duo/trio looking for pvp (poor guys)- one group travelling from his port spot to his target instance (if you are lucky to meet them)- one full group looking for pvp, probably camping a sokolar in KP.On my 80 toon, if I go in a non instanciated ROK zone, it's either in order to get an update for my epic (that won't last long), or more likely because I'm looking for pvp.You are maybe fine (or let's say you don't mind) with the writs because you get out for the pve part and take the occasionnal pvp fight.But for many of us, writs badly hurted this "get out for pvp" aspect of the game, because they are a source of frustration (waiting 40 kills for an update is no fun), and give the feeling the final reward is not achievable.Maybe it will be achievable for a very dedicated person, but for a vast majority it won't.As a consequence when this majority considers it's not worth any longer to get out to look for kills, the few ones who keep on trying are discouraged too because there is nobody left to fight.Don't get me wrong, for sure PVP has never been extremely active on Veny, but before writs I knew if I was patient I would regularly get fights, eventually good ones, and would get rewarded for it.Now getting out is just about being lucky, playing lotto...Yesterday we made our ROK tour with a friend, I needed a warlock to complete my writ (not the least played class on pvp servers, and not evac - able).After checking each ROK zone we racked about 15 kills, but had still no warlock.We could have started again the same tour (probably killing the same guys again), but I prefered to log an alt out of boredom (if we had got a group we would probably have made an instance run for epic updates).That's the way writs are counterproductive, and harm the overall (T SMILEY

pvp, and that's why the class requirement needs to go, or get fixed anyhow - while in principle I like the writs...

-Arctura- · 02-15-2008, 07:17 AM

(( eep!I just looked outside...

( i tried to tell them to calm down, but they are marching on the town square as we speak! >< *hides and boards up the windows and doors*

Tae · 02-15-2008, 08:44 AM

Yes, it's the utter randomness of it. I picked up an illusionist/warden writ on wednesday because that day we'd killed quite a lot of illusionists and I figured it was a good choice. Yesterday we came up against no illusionists at all, other than seeing Aizen sitting in immunity in Sebilis with a full group around him. Meanwhile my friend who took Conjurer and Fury managed to fill his writ, because there were furies coming out of the walls around us it seems. Yes before we'd go out in a duo and only get 5 or 6 tokens each. But now one of us can get 10 and the other one get nothing after 30 kills, and the randomness is what's frustrating about it. Also Arctura that image has broken the tables and now I have to scroll right and left to read stuff.

MuliganVanJurai · 02-15-2008, 11:01 AM

I think they should really consider merging the PvP servers together. I know it may sound like a bad idea to some but I know how you guys feel. Even on Nagafen I can carry a writ for a couple of days looking for specific class. If they don't change things it may not matter. The pvp servers may be on their way out. This would be a shame since they had such a good thing going.

Winter12345 · 02-16-2008, 08:49 PM

I've had no problem finishing pvp writs, and like Spyder said most of the classes i needed came to me. The longest time before I had finished a pvp writ was like around 45 min. Everything else was around 20min. Oh yeah and no I don't just charge into Darklight Wood with a raid or TD to kill any fp I see. Usually questing or in the city crafting.

Leorange · 02-17-2008, 09:07 AM

"It could take 50 more kills to get that update"

That's what I thought when I picked up my pvp writ, the first day after update. Me, conjuror, mostly solo in quest mode.. I wouldn't have a chance to get 5 freeps, 2 exiles, a warden and an assasin within -say- a month. An assasin! As if I EVER get a jump on them, haha. But I picked it up anyway. Fun.

Well..

Then the update-update came, and the exiles were taken from the list. After login that evening I went for a check in my journal. That's when I was most surprised.. since then I have the 5 freeps 'checked off' and the assasin too! And I didn't even kill anyone for it! Really, i didn't, not even in group. None. Fact! O.o

Strange huh SMILEY I seem to have done 85% of my writ without even me being there!! hehe

Hope that will happen to you guys, seeking the last update, too, long before you hit the 50th kill..

PS: Will that freep warden with a deathwish or afk-fetish pls contact me at 1-800-KILLMENOW . thanks!

Roald · 02-17-2008, 10:46 AM

50 kills after getting the second writ and I still need a Fury of all things! JUst imgaine If I'd got a mystic or a dirge SMILEY

FinalOrder · 02-17-2008, 11:19 AM

I wonder if the reason why SOE decided to put specific classes per writ in there was because they wanted variety. Instead of just, kill 10 people.. boring btw.. it would be, kill 10 people and then a specific class. That specific class, if roleplayed, would be considered a high priority target. But instead of saying a Warden or Templar, why not a class archetype. Priest. It will be much more acceptable to the player base and also a good roleplay standpoint.

For instance.. the pvp writ guy says to you, "Adventurer, thank you for your support for defending Qeynos from our enemies. I have another important task for you. Our scouts reported that 10 of Lucan's loyal followers, headed by a priest, has been sighed in the vicinity. Go out and show these would-be murderers that Qeynos will not stand for their tresspassing!"

Just an example of what could be said. You now have 10 freeport targets to kill and a priest of any class. More freedom for the playerbase imo, and still adds something more than just... "Kill 10 nubs, bring their heads, you get bling-bling."

Just a thought... I do agree though, those powerful soloists haven taken a hit on tokens (as well as should be) and group based classes that were getting borked before have it better now (as well as should be)... Considering this is a team based game, so look at it from that perspective. Soloing STILL works and is a choice. SOE wants players to have choices, but when concept is around teamplay, every choice has its advantages and disadvantages.. now it seems that grouping is starting to be better... (well, it always has been better for me and alot of other people, but there have always been powerful soloists who fared much better solo than grouping in regards to tokens per hour. By no means do soloists HAVE to stop soloing.. I will still solo myself since I dont have much time to play these days, but grouping is now a more reliable choice)

Rottk

-Arctura- · 02-17-2008, 01:45 PM

(( I can understand why the writs are not armor-piece-reward for quest format, thats alot of different quests and alot of coding and dialogue-writing. But there are many options to choose from when ameliorating this situation instead of that alternative. *pokes*

Stuckx · 02-17-2008, 05:18 PM

A good fix for this would be to offer different quest for the different PVP items and then give a set amount of kills per quest until you finish the quest.

02-14-2008, 07:50 PM	#1
Izzypop Loremaster Join Date: Nov 2004 Posts: 1,064	Some group based classes are ok with the new writs because they never knew what a token looked like before PvP writs came out. Most group based classes needed 30 kills in a 6 way split to earn 5 tokens. So for a completely group dependend class if it takes an average of 15 to 20 kills to generate 5 tokens things are still looking up for them. Good pre writ solo token generating classses took a huge hit in the writ patch. They should have to deal with their token rate being ballanced with other classes. It's only fair. But nobody should have to deal with the maddening frustration of needed a class specific kill and having no idea how long it will take. Sometimes it takes as little as 5 kills per update. Most of the time players get stuck on needed 1 specific class kill. It could take 1 more kill to get that update. It could take 5 more kills to get that update. It could take 10 more kills to get that update. It could take 20 more kills to get that update. It could take 50 more kills to get that update. You just don't know, and it all amounts to dumb stupid luck unless you're pulling a cheap trick like running around with tracking open and are duel boxing eq2 players, or duel boxing a spy doing a /who then looking everybody up on eq2 players. People have good days where they finish a writ in 6 to 8 kills, but every player will also have a bad luck streak where they go over 50 kills without getting the class they need. Every kills without an update just makes them angrier and angrier because they are helpless. It would be one thing if the writs demanded 15 or 20 kills to earn 5 tokens. It's another to demand 5 kills and then make you get another 20 on the technicallity that you were no lucky enough to kill the right classes. That just builds up hope, only to crush it. There are a lot of things you can say to a player who looses fights in eq2 (L2P) , but what do you say to players who win fights all the time but fail to get updates? It's one thing to loose because you're new, you suck, or you choose to run solo/in a small group and you run into a larger group of players. That's just the nature of the game. It's 100% unaccacpetable to loose when you win. Every time a player gets a PvP kill without an update they pull defeat out of the jaws of victory. It's far more maddening to not get a class update than having a player not drop a chest, or having another player ninja loot your token. The problems of the old system were also upsetting, but they did not tend to happen 5, 10, 15, 20, 25, 30, 35, 40, 45, or 50+ times in a row with no progression made, and that's what has made the city players into an angry mob looking for the nearest dev. __________________

02-15-2008, 06:49 AM	#6
Faenril Server: Nagafen Guild: Purity Rank: Sushi Maker - Alt Loremaster Join Date: Mar 2006 Posts: 2,136	Spyder, this is somewhat a tier specific issue, because tokens (= writs) are the only way to get pvp stuff end game (T7/T.On top of that, yes targets are more sparse end game, yes they know more how to avoid dying (or care more about not dying let's say), and ROK zones are wide. Most of the content is instanciated once you are done with the "solo questing part" (and most of the 80 population already is).So, on Veny in T8 zones you will find:- few players still questing/leveling (coz they are casual players or it's an alt).- few solo/duo/trio looking for pvp (poor guys)- one group travelling from his port spot to his target instance (if you are lucky to meet them)- one full group looking for pvp, probably camping a sokolar in KP.On my 80 toon, if I go in a non instanciated ROK zone, it's either in order to get an update for my epic (that won't last long), or more likely because I'm looking for pvp.You are maybe fine (or let's say you don't mind) with the writs because you get out for the pve part and take the occasionnal pvp fight.But for many of us, writs badly hurted this "get out for pvp" aspect of the game, because they are a source of frustration (waiting 40 kills for an update is no fun), and give the feeling the final reward is not achievable.Maybe it will be achievable for a very dedicated person, but for a vast majority it won't.As a consequence when this majority considers it's not worth any longer to get out to look for kills, the few ones who keep on trying are discouraged too because there is nobody left to fight.Don't get me wrong, for sure PVP has never been extremely active on Veny, but before writs I knew if I was patient I would regularly get fights, eventually good ones, and would get rewarded for it.Now getting out is just about being lucky, playing lotto...Yesterday we made our ROK tour with a friend, I needed a warlock to complete my writ (not the least played class on pvp servers, and not evac - able).After checking each ROK zone we racked about 15 kills, but had still no warlock.We could have started again the same tour (probably killing the same guys again), but I prefered to log an alt out of boredom (if we had got a group we would probably have made an instance run for epic updates).That's the way writs are counterproductive, and harm the overall (T pvp, and that's why the class requirement needs to go, or get fixed anyhow - while in principle I like the writs...

02-15-2008, 07:17 AM	#7
-Arctura- Loremaster Join Date: Nov 2004 Location: Canada Posts: 1,589	(( eep!I just looked outside...( i tried to tell them to calm down, but they are marching on the town square as we speak! >< hides and boards up the windows and doors

02-15-2008, 11:01 AM	#9
MuliganVanJurai Loremaster Join Date: Nov 2004 Location: Illinios Posts: 83	I think they should really consider merging the PvP servers together. I know it may sound like a bad idea to some but I know how you guys feel. Even on Nagafen I can carry a writ for a couple of days looking for specific class. If they don't change things it may not matter. The pvp servers may be on their way out. This would be a shame since they had such a good thing going. __________________ Muligan Van'Jurai Wood Elf Assassin Bad Habits

02-17-2008, 09:07 AM	#11
Leorange Loremaster Join Date: Nov 2004 Location: Qeynos, Norrath Posts: 236	"It could take 50 more kills to get that update" That's what I thought when I picked up my pvp writ, the first day after update. Me, conjuror, mostly solo in quest mode.. I wouldn't have a chance to get 5 freeps, 2 exiles, a warden and an assasin within -say- a month. An assasin! As if I EVER get a jump on them, haha. But I picked it up anyway. Fun. Well.. Then the update-update came, and the exiles were taken from the list. After login that evening I went for a check in my journal. That's when I was most surprised.. since then I have the 5 freeps 'checked off' and the assasin too! And I didn't even kill anyone for it! Really, i didn't, not even in group. None. Fact! O.o Strange huh I seem to have done 85% of my writ without even me being there!! hehe Hope that will happen to you guys, seeking the last update, too, long before you hit the 50th kill.. PS: Will that freep warden with a deathwish or afk-fetish pls contact me at 1-800-KILLMENOW . thanks! __________________

02-14-2008, 11:14 PM	#2
KaiZas Loremaster Join Date: Nov 2004 Posts: 36	You're right. I've been walking around with the same writ for days now. I'm not an extremely active pvp player. I do my quests, trying to gain 80 (which I did tonight, YAY!) and get my AA to 140. I take the PvP that comes my way. I see 'em, I run after them, that's how it works for me. It's a secondary goal for now. I tried to pick a pvp-writ that would be "easy" to fill. A warden and an assassin. Shouldn't be too hard, right? Wrong. Haven't seen an assassin for days now. Had me a serious kill streak going too, so it's not like I haven't made plenty of kills. Just didn't get lucky. I'm sitting on 53 measly tokens. That number has been static since they took out the exiles. Go figure. By the time I got my first piece, it's gonna be hello Tier 9.

02-15-2008, 03:47 AM	#3
Dojac Server: Vox Guild: Storms Brew Rank: Boss Loremaster Join Date: Aug 2007 Posts: 167	Lol, I picked up a writ with a warden and SK. Wandered around for 4 full days with 5 kills plus the warden kill. Continued to kill over that 4 day period and got 0 updates. I didn't even see an SK (much to my surprise, apparently they're not worth playing once you take HT outa the picture) over those 4 days. I decided screw it I'll re roll the writ.....Of course you know what happened......The very next kill was a SK. Not sayin the writs should get easier, I'm just saying they should get less frustrating. Not my fault my Illy cant track down a SK.

02-15-2008, 04:23 AM	#4
Spyderbite Server: Venekor Guild: Dark Vengeance Rank: Member Loremaster Join Date: Oct 2006 Location: Connecticut Posts: 4,262	My level 20 Fury completed 2 writs inside of 4 hours the other day. Just hanging around the Nek docks killing crabs. Didn't have to attack a soul. They attacked her. Go figure.Not sure if this is a Tier specific issue, but the T3-T5 seem to have plenty of targets on both sides out looking for each other. I can see where this might be an issue where the targets are more sparse though in T7-T8 or the targets harder to kill or both.Regardless, I hope class specific requirements are removed just like everyone else. Sitting on a Troubadour writ for 3 days on my brigand. :/

02-15-2008, 06:47 AM	#5
-Arctura- Loremaster Join Date: Nov 2004 Location: Canada Posts: 1,589	(( yes. I wouldnt mind a writ for 500 kills, earn 200 tokens w/e. even for 100 tokens. (extreme example!)Aside from kvds and kill streaks, if you cant find the right class online, the kills are going to waste.

02-15-2008, 08:44 AM	#8
Tae Server: Venekor Guild: Someone Gonna Die Rank: Officer General Join Date: Jan 2007 Location: Europe Posts: 735	Yes, it's the utter randomness of it. I picked up an illusionist/warden writ on wednesday because that day we'd killed quite a lot of illusionists and I figured it was a good choice. Yesterday we came up against no illusionists at all, other than seeing Aizen sitting in immunity in Sebilis with a full group around him. Meanwhile my friend who took Conjurer and Fury managed to fill his writ, because there were furies coming out of the walls around us it seems. Yes before we'd go out in a duo and only get 5 or 6 tokens each. But now one of us can get 10 and the other one get nothing after 30 kills, and the randomness is what's frustrating about it. Also Arctura that image has broken the tables and now I have to scroll right and left to read stuff.

02-16-2008, 08:49 PM	#10
Winter12345 Loremaster Join Date: May 2007 Location: Nagafan Qeynos only Posts: 486	I've had no problem finishing pvp writs, and like Spyder said most of the classes i needed came to me. The longest time before I had finished a pvp writ was like around 45 min. Everything else was around 20min. Oh yeah and no I don't just charge into Darklight Wood with a raid or TD to kill any fp I see. Usually questing or in the city crafting.

02-17-2008, 10:46 AM	#12
Roald Loremaster Join Date: May 2005 Location: London Posts: 1,417	50 kills after getting the second writ and I still need a Fury of all things! JUst imgaine If I'd got a mystic or a dirge __________________ Lickle Milambers Qtoon

02-17-2008, 11:19 AM	#13
FinalOrder Loremaster Join Date: Sep 2005 Posts: 69	I wonder if the reason why SOE decided to put specific classes per writ in there was because they wanted variety. Instead of just, kill 10 people.. boring btw.. it would be, kill 10 people and then a specific class. That specific class, if roleplayed, would be considered a high priority target. But instead of saying a Warden or Templar, why not a class archetype. Priest. It will be much more acceptable to the player base and also a good roleplay standpoint. For instance.. the pvp writ guy says to you, "Adventurer, thank you for your support for defending Qeynos from our enemies. I have another important task for you. Our scouts reported that 10 of Lucan's loyal followers, headed by a priest, has been sighed in the vicinity. Go out and show these would-be murderers that Qeynos will not stand for their tresspassing!" Just an example of what could be said. You now have 10 freeport targets to kill and a priest of any class. More freedom for the playerbase imo, and still adds something more than just... "Kill 10 nubs, bring their heads, you get bling-bling." Just a thought... I do agree though, those powerful soloists haven taken a hit on tokens (as well as should be) and group based classes that were getting borked before have it better now (as well as should be)... Considering this is a team based game, so look at it from that perspective. Soloing STILL works and is a choice. SOE wants players to have choices, but when concept is around teamplay, every choice has its advantages and disadvantages.. now it seems that grouping is starting to be better... (well, it always has been better for me and alot of other people, but there have always been powerful soloists who fared much better solo than grouping in regards to tokens per hour. By no means do soloists HAVE to stop soloing.. I will still solo myself since I dont have much time to play these days, but grouping is now a more reliable choice) Rottk

02-17-2008, 01:45 PM	#14
-Arctura- Loremaster Join Date: Nov 2004 Location: Canada Posts: 1,589	(( I can understand why the writs are not armor-piece-reward for quest format, thats alot of different quests and alot of coding and dialogue-writing. But there are many options to choose from when ameliorating this situation instead of that alternative. pokes

02-17-2008, 05:18 PM	#15
Stuckx Server: Nagafen Loremaster Join Date: Aug 2007 Posts: 754	A good fix for this would be to offer different quest for the different PVP items and then give a set amount of kills per quest until you finish the quest. __________________ Making all your dreams come true,the crushing them in a fiery explosion!