Stop nerfing encounters. This is EQ2, not WoW.

Klaktar · 01-23-2008, 10:20 PM

The title says it all, but allow me to go into detail. You all know by now that Drusella Sathir in Maiden's was nerfed. Why? seriously, this was not a difficult encounter, it just required that people pay attention, but now Drusella does all the brain work for you. One of the major aspects of Everquest 2 that sets it apart from other MMORPGs is strategy. This mainly applies to epic encounters, but we finally got some single group mobs that require thought, and not just [Removed for Content] button mashing.Apparently that's too hard. SoE has to dumb this game down, systematically, because they think it will pull in more players, since WoW is so easy. Eventually the key demographic of EQ2 is going to be anyone in a [Removed for Content] coma. This [Removed for Content] seriously needs to stop. You guys release new encounters that are actually difficult, and then proceed to make them easier, and easier, and easier. Don't nerf Drusella, don't nerf any RoK raid mobs (I know this hasn't happened yet, but it will soon enough.). Sony, it's OKAY if some mobs aren't cleared the first time someone fights them! There HAS to be some sort of learning experience to this game, and you keep taking that away. Challenge is good, and as far as I'm concerned, anyone who thinks this game is "too hard" can [Removed for Content] well go back to playing WoW.The real reason WoW is so much more popular than Everquest 2 is because there are far more idiots in the world than smart people, but the smart people need a solid MMO to play too, you know.

ReficulFonwaps · 01-23-2008, 10:33 PM

I for one support this "nerf". Certain classes were at an extreme disadvantage with this encounter the way it was because 90% of their abilities have dot's on them. When an encounter elimantes the viability of certain classes it needs to be changed, as we see here in this update.

Catsy · 01-23-2008, 11:23 PM

Yeah, same here. Classes like assassins had to practically sit out most of the fight. You'll still have to keep the [Removed for Content] out of your group to avoid healing her when she puts up her bone shield, and the encounter will still be tough, but now some classes can actually participate with more than an autoattack every now and then.

Ama · 01-24-2008, 12:11 AM

ReficulFonwaps wrote:

I for one support this "nerf". Certain classes were at an extreme disadvantage with this encounter the way it was because 90% of their abilities have dot's on them. When an encounter elimantes the viability of certain classes it needs to be changed, as we see here in this update.

Yup and SKs are tanks that rely on their hate buffs. However it comes with a small nasty dmg proc on it. This in turn led to it being turned off. Also had to turn off weapon procs just in case something accidentally went off.

The idea of the encounter is sounds, but when you got a mob that heals itself through dmg some classes are kinda SoL on it. Preferably I would have liked it if the mob activated the spell at 80, 50, 30, and 10% health turning it into a darathar fight. This way some screws up it's alright, but ya gotta work 10x harder at it if the mob is at say 10%.

Aphelion012 · 01-24-2008, 03:45 AM

Sotanyavejin@Guk wrote:

Yeah, same here. Classes like assassins had to practically sit out most of the fight. You'll still have to keep the [I cannot control my vocabulary] out of your group to avoid healing her when she puts up her bone shield, and the encounter will still be tough, but now some classes can actually participate with more than an autoattack every now and then.

Really, because I main an assassin, and myself a Brigand, and a Defiler had absolutely no trouble Trio-ing her. The whole fight is about not being [Removed for Content]. And fyi, Assassins can still do crazy burst damage without using their dots. in fact there are only 4 total, and one is an AoE. The encounter was already ridiculously easy, and it just got alot easier which is kinda depressing.

Logan · 01-24-2008, 04:27 AM

The bulk of any online game is not made up of super talented gamers. That would be me I'm average. Partially I guess because when a fight dwindles down to me having to use a parser to figure out whats going on my eyes glaze and i skip it. I don't mind, however, that theres a mob or 2 in instances that me and my average friends can't beat; it's not a big deal.

The only real issue and its only sort if an issue is that certain classes had a hard time getting in on Maidens groups unless it was with guildies. mostly its an image issue and not that brawlers or whoever are useless. I dont think it was too big of an issue unless you were a strict PuG only player.

As far as difficulty..well one person says its hard nerf it...another says its too easy already. Does it matter if its already easy for someone if it gets toned down further?

Average players like me will still have a hard time with maiden's but odds are I wont bother with it much so the change doesn't matter to me.

Kaiser Sigma · 01-24-2008, 06:59 AM

Logannx wrote:

Does it matter if its already easy for someone if it gets toned down further?

Yeah, it does. Without challenge there's zero reason to bother doing it. Challenge keeps it interesting, walking through the park isn't anyone's idea of fun.To whoever said that as an assassin you have to sit out or just auto attack, you simply suck. Not because you put the entire weight of the class on four DoTs ignoring every single other CA we have but because you are so lazy you can't be arsed to time the shield and cancel your DoTs when it's up~.

Oxanda · 01-24-2008, 07:37 AM

Why can't we just hail an NPC and get a random item from Drusella's loot table?Unneeded change

Thunderthyze · 01-24-2008, 09:11 AM

Varuna@Mistmoore wrote:

The title says it all, but allow me to go into detail. You all know by now that Drusella Sathir in Maiden's was nerfed. Why? seriously, this was not a difficult encounter, it just required that people pay attention, but now Drusella does all the brain work for you. One of the major aspects of Everquest 2 that sets it apart from other MMORPGs is strategy. This mainly applies to epic encounters, but we finally got some single group mobs that require thought, and not just [I cannot control my vocabulary] button mashing.Apparently that's too hard. SoE has to dumb this game down, systematically, because they think it will pull in more players, since WoW is so easy. Eventually the key demographic of EQ2 is going to be anyone in a [I cannot control my vocabulary] coma. This [I cannot control my vocabulary] seriously needs to stop. You guys release new encounters that are actually difficult, and then proceed to make them easier, and easier, and easier. Don't nerf Drusella, don't nerf any RoK raid mobs (I know this hasn't happened yet, but it will soon enough.). Sony, it's OKAY if some mobs aren't cleared the first time someone fights them! There HAS to be some sort of learning experience to this game, and you keep taking that away. Challenge is good, and as far as I'm concerned, anyone who thinks this game is "too hard" can [Removed for Content] well go back to playing WoW.The real reason WoW is so much more popular than Everquest 2 is because there are far more idiots in the world than smart people, but the smart people need a solid MMO to play too, you know.

QFE

Wholeheartedly agree! Well said.

KBern · 01-24-2008, 11:12 AM

ReficulFonwaps wrote:

I for one support this "nerf". Certain classes were at an extreme disadvantage with this encounter the way it was because 90% of their abilities have dot's on them. When an encounter elimantes the viability of certain classes it needs to be changed, as we see here in this update.

Pfft..I am one of those classes that are probably most gimped when fighting this mob and I am totally against this change.

They took an easy fight where people simply had to pay attention and not spam hot keys and made the mob into a loot pinata.

Ridiculous change to what should be the top end single group instance in the game today.

Aphelion012 · 01-24-2008, 11:23 AM

Karel@Lucan DLere wrote:

To whoever said that as an assassin you have to sit out or just auto attack, you simply suck. Not because you put the entire weight of the class on four DoTs ignoring every single other CA we have but because you are so lazy you can't be arsed to time the shield and cancel your DoTs when it's up~.

QFE

Bramwe · 01-24-2008, 12:05 PM

I like the change. I am a regular of pick up groups and this encounter is not fun in its current state on live.

Bledso · 01-24-2008, 12:17 PM

Varuna@Mistmoore wrote:

The title says it all, but allow me to go into detail. You all know by now that Drusella Sathir in Maiden's was nerfed. Why? seriously, this was not a difficult encounter, it just required that people pay attention, but now Drusella does all the brain work for you. One of the major aspects of Everquest 2 that sets it apart from other MMORPGs is strategy. This mainly applies to epic encounters, but we finally got some single group mobs that require thought, and not just [I cannot control my vocabulary] button mashing.Apparently that's too hard. SoE has to dumb this game down, systematically, because they think it will pull in more players, since WoW is so easy. Eventually the key demographic of EQ2 is going to be anyone in a [I cannot control my vocabulary] coma. This [I cannot control my vocabulary] seriously needs to stop. You guys release new encounters that are actually difficult, and then proceed to make them easier, and easier, and easier. Don't nerf Drusella, don't nerf any RoK raid mobs (I know this hasn't happened yet, but it will soon enough.). Sony, it's OKAY if some mobs aren't cleared the first time someone fights them! There HAS to be some sort of learning experience to this game, and you keep taking that away. Challenge is good, and as far as I'm concerned, anyone who thinks this game is "too hard" can [Removed for Content] well go back to playing WoW.The real reason WoW is so much more popular than Everquest 2 is because there are far more idiots in the world than smart people, but the smart people need a solid MMO to play too, you know.

Calling WoW players idiots is not a good way for you to try and make any kind of point - I played WoW for years and take complete offense at your analogy.

The other flaw in your system is limited to your class - as others are pointing out before you impose any type of view you need to look at the system like the Devs do - globally not restricted to your small world of limited classes you played.

Try every class and try that encounter then come here and make your points - it may have been ok for you but for a larger player base it was not fun - and regardless of your preferences - like you enjoy an extremely tough challange - others do not - it should be difficult and it should be fun - fun being the optimum word.

To degrade players will lose any support of any of your ideas - going back to idiots play WoW so people who are liking this change = WoW players = idiots.

Sorry you need to learn to present ideas and not just retort to ranting - there's a real challenge for you.

Thunderthyze · 01-24-2008, 12:24 PM

Bledso wrote:

Varuna@Mistmoore wrote:
The title says it all, but allow me to go into detail. You all know by now that Drusella Sathir in Maiden's was nerfed. Why? seriously, this was not a difficult encounter, it just required that people pay attention, but now Drusella does all the brain work for you. One of the major aspects of Everquest 2 that sets it apart from other MMORPGs is strategy. This mainly applies to epic encounters, but we finally got some single group mobs that require thought, and not just [I cannot control my vocabulary] button mashing.Apparently that's too hard. SoE has to dumb this game down, systematically, because they think it will pull in more players, since WoW is so easy. Eventually the key demographic of EQ2 is going to be anyone in a [I cannot control my vocabulary] coma. This [I cannot control my vocabulary] seriously needs to stop. You guys release new encounters that are actually difficult, and then proceed to make them easier, and easier, and easier. Don't nerf Drusella, don't nerf any RoK raid mobs (I know this hasn't happened yet, but it will soon enough.). Sony, it's OKAY if some mobs aren't cleared the first time someone fights them! There HAS to be some sort of learning experience to this game, and you keep taking that away. Challenge is good, and as far as I'm concerned, anyone who thinks this game is "too hard" can [Removed for Content] well go back to playing WoW.The real reason WoW is so much more popular than Everquest 2 is because there are far more idiots in the world than smart people, but the smart people need a solid MMO to play too, you know.
Calling WoW players idiots is not a good way for you to try and make any kind of point - I played WoW for years and take complete offense at your analogy.
The other flaw in your system is limited to your class - as others are pointing out before you impose any type of view you need to look at the system like the Devs do - globally not restricted to your small world of limited classes you played.
Try every class and try that encounter then come here and make your points - it may have been ok for you but for a larger player base it was not fun - and regardless of your preferences - like you enjoy an extremely tough challange - others do not - it should be difficult and it should be fun - fun being the optimum word.
To degrade players will lose any support of any of your ideas - going back to idiots play WoW so people who are liking this change = WoW players = idiots.
Sorry you need to learn to present ideas and not just retort to ranting - there's a real challenge for you.

I think the point is that EQ2 began life as a more in depth, complicated, mature game than WoW. I really don't see the point why SOE think that there is enough room in the market for 2 WoWs....there isn't. Leave WoW to the younger players and consolidate EQ2 as a game for people searching for something a little more involved. You will never do WoW as well as Blizzard do.....stop trying.

Vendolyn · 01-24-2008, 12:49 PM

I can't comment on the Drusilla encounter, as I've yet to see her. But I do agree with what some people are saying. I play this game, as I see it as a better middle ground. I played EQ1 for nearly 6 years, 2 boxing a bard and a shaman (yep, I heart button mashing!). But, in the end, it was too much for me. 4am Klandicar raids boxing my own group just so we'd have a shot at Sleeper's wore me down.I played WoW for a couple of years. I played beta and quit roughly 1 year into it being live. Running a semi raid guild, the drama within, and the younger player base killed the game for me. I came back because my boyfriend wanted to start playing again. I prefered EQ2, but it was something we could do together. It took us under a week to go from 60 to the new cap of 70. All it ended up being was grind PVP for gear, run Kara 20,000 times for gear, have random people make fun of you because your character that sat for over a year unplayed was wearing "old world" gear. In the end, it wasn't enough.Finally get internet set up at my new place and return to EQ2. No 72 man raids and endless keying required. Nothing so easy you can get sufficient amounts of MODs to play the game for you. The challenge is here. The lore that kept me playing EQ1 for so long is here. The community I would want from an MMO is here. I really understand what people are talking about here. We love this game. We want it to be EQ2 and nothing else.

Frigid2000 · 01-24-2008, 01:05 PM

I also, hate the fact this was nerfed. Didn't you people read all of the complaints about the game being too easy already? Most of the instances are snooze fests.

I LOVED going through Nizara, City of the Nyad - man, that was HARD. I laughed when I died because I was enjoying it so much. Frankly, I'm surprised that hasn't felt the nerf bat. I feel the same way about Maiden's. Now you're just succumbing to the whiners that cannot think.

Mhedic · 01-24-2008, 01:29 PM

While i have never encounter Druzalla (sp), I have to agree with the OP. I have seen a growing trend in this game that reminds me much of SWG (for those who played it from the begining and the great NGE nerf). SWG started out with you being able to pick and choose your path and there was a lot of diversity in the game and some challenge on getting your skills up there. Even becoming a Jedi was a year long process, and now you can start as one. They really dumbed down the game to the new player and it really become pointless and no fun to play anymore for those of us who played from the begining.

I see this in many ways happening to EQ2 and i really don't want to see something like NGE hit EQ2. Leave us some challenges and for those of you who cannot do some epic mobs or dungeons, stop complaining about it and look up some infomation on those mobs or dungeons to help you survive them. Do some research and maybe you will be able to do them. I am sure that all mobs can be killed with the proper knowledge and that is part of the game. If there is a 50/50 base of people whining and those telling you its easy, just leave it alone in my opinion.

We love challenge and if you take it away we will be forced to move to another game that will give it to us.

Junaru · 01-24-2008, 01:33 PM

I agree with 1/2 of the changes. I see no reason why having her remove any hostile spells on her is a bad thing. It gives some DoT heavy classes the ability to use these skills/spells where they couldn't before.Now the second change I think is dumb. There is no reason why she would just stand there while her bone cage is up. You would have to be a complete noob to not be able to beat her now.

Virulence · 01-24-2008, 01:54 PM

Frankly who cares, the "challenge" crowd has likely already run Maidens so many times they could do it in their sleep. Drusella drops the only loot most are looking for/the only reason people do it again and again. The whole place is a 60 min milk run.

I would center my attention on FAR more pressing issues because once the epic questlines are out, doubt there will be much concern over this.

I still cant believe people arent infuriated that places like the Shard of Fear arent dropping T8 Masters.

krrr · 01-24-2008, 01:57 PM

Quote:

I agree with 1/2 of the changes. I see no reason why having her remove any hostile spells on her is a bad thing. It gives some DoT heavy classes the ability to use these skills/spells where they couldn't before.

Don`t want to ruin your perfect picture, but you know that you can cancel any DOT that you have running?

Vorlak · 01-24-2008, 02:03 PM

Games are designed for enjoyment and at the end of the day if you didnt enjoy something maybe it needs tweeking. some people like challenge, others are just challenged to the point soe has to change the mechanics. You relize that the encounter hasnt changed to much. They are just allowing people to use DOT based abilities now. She just strips off all the dots/debuffs when the shield goes up, she will still heal if you damage her or re-aply the dots makeing it just as hard. The fact that she removes debuffs now is probably the reason she will no longer auto attack while in bone shield, kind of like how us players get stunned or dazed when we do something special, but its all in balance. I really dont see the big issue on drusilla. My biggest issue is with why they changed the first named, i mean hell they might as well of made the mob perma rooted and summon players on its hate list if they wanted you to fight him on his platform.

KBern · 01-24-2008, 02:05 PM

This fight was very simple...yes..simple...once you understood the encounter, which takes not very long and there are enough spoilers to be found anyway.

You actually had to think a little bit and not spam every ability you had, no when to stop attacking, and the fight basically just took a little longer than some of the others.

This encounter gave many people who choose not to raid a challenging encounter that is akin to a raid type encounter (limitations on abilities, timing required, not just mass button pushing) and rewarded decent loot for the effort.

Now you dont even have to think when fighting this mob. I can spam every dot, use my pet and simply pull pet off when the cage goes off....this change does all the work for me, I dont need to think anymore, dont need timing, just need to pull my pet back once in a while and stop casting for a few seconds...

Pathetic change. If you couldnt beat this mob, you didnt and dont deserve the loot she has on her table. As someone said, why not just let people hail her and get a random loot item 01 for their trouble.

quasigenx · 01-24-2008, 02:29 PM

ReficulFonwaps wrote:

When an encounter elimantes the viability of certain classes it needs to be changed, as we see here in this update.

I don't agree with this, in general. I would love to see encounters here and there that make certain classes much less effective. Cleric reactives heals cause an AoE to wipe the raid? Bring it on! As long as it's not used too much, it would add some nice flavor.

Gorhauth · 01-24-2008, 05:02 PM

Mhedicin wrote:

I have seen a growing trend in this game that reminds me much of SWG (for those who played it from the begining and the great NGE nerf). SWG started out with you being able to pick and choose your path and there was a lot of diversity in the game and some challenge on getting your skills up there.

Your idea of diversity is one of three templates to be viable while doing faction missions (mainly because of the PVP that you were guaranteed to encounter while running them)? SWG was anything but diverse in classes. First, it was all Creature Handlers. After they got nerfed, it was all either a fencer template (for the dodge) or CM/Rifleman. Occasionally you'd find the Expert BH/Pistoleer. That is hardly diverse.

Mhedic · 01-24-2008, 05:20 PM

Gorhauth wrote:

Mhedicin wrote:
I have seen a growing trend in this game that reminds me much of SWG (for those who played it from the begining and the great NGE nerf). SWG started out with you being able to pick and choose your path and there was a lot of diversity in the game and some challenge on getting your skills up there.
Your idea of diversity is one of three templates to be viable while doing faction missions (mainly because of the PVP that you were guaranteed to encounter while running them)? SWG was anything but diverse in classes. First, it was all Creature Handlers. After they got nerfed, it was all either a fencer template (for the dodge) or CM/Rifleman. Occasionally you'd find the Expert BH/Pistoleer. That is hardly diverse.

Yes, but there was the option for diversity there, not that everybody used it. I know myself was a CH/Pistoleer until NGE. My son was a BH/Rifleman. And i know there was an awesome template for PVP that all people who PVP'd used. But it doesn't take away the option that was there for people to use. Just like what did you keep when you went Jedi. Again more diversity was available. Thats all i was saying there. Let us keep our options open.

krrr · 01-24-2008, 06:15 PM

Gorhauth wrote:

Mhedicin wrote:
I have seen a growing trend in this game that reminds me much of SWG (for those who played it from the begining and the great NGE nerf). SWG started out with you being able to pick and choose your path and there was a lot of diversity in the game and some challenge on getting your skills up there.
Your idea of diversity is one of three templates to be viable while doing faction missions (mainly because of the PVP that you were guaranteed to encounter while running them)? SWG was anything but diverse in classes. First, it was all Creature Handlers. After they got nerfed, it was all either a fencer template (for the dodge) or CM/Rifleman. Occasionally you'd find the Expert BH/Pistoleer. That is hardly diverse.

It`s not lack of diversity, it`s lack of ballance.

Cadori Seraphim · 01-24-2008, 06:19 PM

More cursing and annoying posts please! That will surely get the Devs to listen to you.. yup.

Trepan · 01-24-2008, 06:41 PM

ReficulFonwaps wrote:

When an encounter elimantes the viability of certain classes it needs to be changed, as we see here in this update.

Wow, then Coercers have some hope against Every Single Named in ROK?Oh, wait, sorry... I was dreaming again.PS: As a clarification all true heroic+ named that I've run into in RoK are immune to stifle, stun, mez and root. Reactives still work, but it really does shut down a majority of the things a group learns to depend on from my class.... oh yeah, and they also took away the power drain on Mr. Spermy... so yay, you're absolutely right. SMILEY<img mce_tsrc=

----------Now, regarding the actual topic. I would LOVE encounters that are really really really hard to beat that don't get nerfed that single groups can try again and again. Those who complete it would have bragging rights. Those who don't beat it will have whining rights, but no change to the encounter after it is implemented. I understand that encounters that were put in place with the expectation that everyone would face and defeat it will have to be tuned down if too difficult... I'd just like to see some encounters with a different expectation.Thanks!

KBern · 01-24-2008, 06:48 PM

Trepan wrote:

ReficulFonwaps wrote:
When an encounter elimantes the viability of certain classes it needs to be changed, as we see here in this update.
Wow, then Coercers have some hope against Every Single Named in ROK?Oh, wait, sorry... I was dreaming again.PS: As a clarification all true heroic+ named that I've run into in RoK are immune to stifle, stun, mez and root. Reactives still work, but it really does shut down a majority of the things a group learns to depend on from my class.... oh yeah, and they also took away the power drain on Mr. Spermy... so yay, you're absolutely right. " width="15" height="15">----------

lol yeah.

And almost every raid encounter in game eliminates or reduces the viability of many abilities of many classes. We adapt and beat the mob.

People who dont raid asked and begged for challenging raid type encounters that offered challenge and reward. This was it.

I stress the word WAS.

I guess in the end much of this whining for better content wasnt about being offered a challenge commensurate with raiding as was said, but simply about having access to loot as many thought.

Gungo · 01-24-2008, 07:01 PM

Vorlak wrote:

Games are designed for enjoyment and at the end of the day if you didnt enjoy something maybe it needs tweeking.some people like challenge, others are just challenged to the point soe has to change the mechanics.You relize that the encounter hasnt changed to much. They are just allowing people to use DOT based abilities now.She just strips off all the dots/debuffs when the shield goes up, she will still heal if you damage her or re-aply the dots makeing it just as hard.The fact that she removes debuffs now is probably the reason she will no longer auto attack while in bone shield, kind of like how us players get stunned or dazed when we do something special, but its all in balance.I really dont see the big issue on drusilla. My biggest issue is with why they changed the first named, i mean hell they might as well of made the mob perma rooted and summon players on its hate list if they wanted you to fight him on his platform.

You apparently did a poor job of reading the patch notes. maybe her dispelling all her dots and debuffs is warrented for the lazy acorwd that pays no attention. Fine hey at least she strips all debuffs now making her hit harder... O wait no

Now she does absolutely no damage whatso ever when the sheild is up. It doesnt even matter anymore if someone pulls agro becuase she cant do anything.

yes this encounter has been completely gimped making the 3 sisters actually a harder fight. Why? i have no clue becuase every pickup group/guild group i been in this zone with has had no issues killing this mob. Yet it needed to be completely made into a non damageing non healing joke? Come on now. Dont be so blind by your own inadeqate playing.

01-23-2008, 11:23 PM	#3
Catsy Loremaster Join Date: Nov 2005 Posts: 331	Yeah, same here. Classes like assassins had to practically sit out most of the fight. You'll still have to keep the [Removed for Content] out of your group to avoid healing her when she puts up her bone shield, and the encounter will still be tough, but now some classes can actually participate with more than an autoattack every now and then. __________________ Sotanyavejin: 80 Fury / Provisioner Truancy: 70 Coercer / Sage Old World Guardians @ Guk

01-24-2008, 12:11 AM	#4
Ama General Join Date: May 2005 Posts: 2,833	ReficulFonwaps wrote: I for one support this "nerf". Certain classes were at an extreme disadvantage with this encounter the way it was because 90% of their abilities have dot's on them. When an encounter elimantes the viability of certain classes it needs to be changed, as we see here in this update. Yup and SKs are tanks that rely on their hate buffs. However it comes with a small nasty dmg proc on it. This in turn led to it being turned off. Also had to turn off weapon procs just in case something accidentally went off. The idea of the encounter is sounds, but when you got a mob that heals itself through dmg some classes are kinda SoL on it. Preferably I would have liked it if the mob activated the spell at 80, 50, 30, and 10% health turning it into a darathar fight. This way some screws up it's alright, but ya gotta work 10x harder at it if the mob is at say 10%. __________________

01-24-2008, 03:45 AM	#5
Aphelion012 General Join Date: Jul 2005 Posts: 14	Sotanyavejin@Guk wrote: Yeah, same here. Classes like assassins had to practically sit out most of the fight. You'll still have to keep the [I cannot control my vocabulary] out of your group to avoid healing her when she puts up her bone shield, and the encounter will still be tough, but now some classes can actually participate with more than an autoattack every now and then. Really, because I main an assassin, and myself a Brigand, and a Defiler had absolutely no trouble Trio-ing her. The whole fight is about not being [Removed for Content]. And fyi, Assassins can still do crazy burst damage without using their dots. in fact there are only 4 total, and one is an AoE. The encounter was already ridiculously easy, and it just got alot easier which is kinda depressing. __________________

01-24-2008, 06:59 AM	#7
Kaiser Sigma Loremaster Join Date: Jan 2005 Posts: 361	Logannx wrote: Does it matter if its already easy for someone if it gets toned down further? Yeah, it does. Without challenge there's zero reason to bother doing it. Challenge keeps it interesting, walking through the park isn't anyone's idea of fun.To whoever said that as an assassin you have to sit out or just auto attack, you simply suck. Not because you put the entire weight of the class on four DoTs ignoring every single other CA we have but because you are so lazy you can't be arsed to time the shield and cancel your DoTs when it's up~.

01-24-2008, 07:37 AM	#8
Oxanda Loremaster Join Date: May 2005 Location: South Qeynos Posts: 73	Why can't we just hail an NPC and get a random item from Drusella's loot table?Unneeded change __________________

01-23-2008, 10:20 PM	#1
Klaktar Loremaster Join Date: Jan 2006 Posts: 99	The title says it all, but allow me to go into detail. You all know by now that Drusella Sathir in Maiden's was nerfed. Why? seriously, this was not a difficult encounter, it just required that people pay attention, but now Drusella does all the brain work for you. One of the major aspects of Everquest 2 that sets it apart from other MMORPGs is strategy. This mainly applies to epic encounters, but we finally got some single group mobs that require thought, and not just [Removed for Content] button mashing.Apparently that's too hard. SoE has to dumb this game down, systematically, because they think it will pull in more players, since WoW is so easy. Eventually the key demographic of EQ2 is going to be anyone in a [Removed for Content] coma. This [Removed for Content] seriously needs to stop. You guys release new encounters that are actually difficult, and then proceed to make them easier, and easier, and easier. Don't nerf Drusella, don't nerf any RoK raid mobs (I know this hasn't happened yet, but it will soon enough.). Sony, it's OKAY if some mobs aren't cleared the first time someone fights them! There HAS to be some sort of learning experience to this game, and you keep taking that away. Challenge is good, and as far as I'm concerned, anyone who thinks this game is "too hard" can [Removed for Content] well go back to playing WoW.The real reason WoW is so much more popular than Everquest 2 is because there are far more idiots in the world than smart people, but the smart people need a solid MMO to play too, you know.

01-23-2008, 10:33 PM	#2
ReficulFonwaps Loremaster Join Date: Nov 2004 Posts: 161	I for one support this "nerf". Certain classes were at an extreme disadvantage with this encounter the way it was because 90% of their abilities have dot's on them. When an encounter elimantes the viability of certain classes it needs to be changed, as we see here in this update.

01-24-2008, 04:27 AM	#6
Logan General Join Date: Nov 2004 Posts: 75	The bulk of any online game is not made up of super talented gamers. That would be me I'm average. Partially I guess because when a fight dwindles down to me having to use a parser to figure out whats going on my eyes glaze and i skip it. I don't mind, however, that theres a mob or 2 in instances that me and my average friends can't beat; it's not a big deal. The only real issue and its only sort if an issue is that certain classes had a hard time getting in on Maidens groups unless it was with guildies. mostly its an image issue and not that brawlers or whoever are useless. I dont think it was too big of an issue unless you were a strict PuG only player. As far as difficulty..well one person says its hard nerf it...another says its too easy already. Does it matter if its already easy for someone if it gets toned down further? Average players like me will still have a hard time with maiden's but odds are I wont bother with it much so the change doesn't matter to me.

01-24-2008, 09:11 AM	#9
Thunderthyze Loremaster Join Date: Sep 2005 Location: Old South Wales Posts: 2,050	Varuna@Mistmoore wrote: The title says it all, but allow me to go into detail. You all know by now that Drusella Sathir in Maiden's was nerfed. Why? seriously, this was not a difficult encounter, it just required that people pay attention, but now Drusella does all the brain work for you. One of the major aspects of Everquest 2 that sets it apart from other MMORPGs is strategy. This mainly applies to epic encounters, but we finally got some single group mobs that require thought, and not just [I cannot control my vocabulary] button mashing.Apparently that's too hard. SoE has to dumb this game down, systematically, because they think it will pull in more players, since WoW is so easy. Eventually the key demographic of EQ2 is going to be anyone in a [I cannot control my vocabulary] coma. This [I cannot control my vocabulary] seriously needs to stop. You guys release new encounters that are actually difficult, and then proceed to make them easier, and easier, and easier. Don't nerf Drusella, don't nerf any RoK raid mobs (I know this hasn't happened yet, but it will soon enough.). Sony, it's OKAY if some mobs aren't cleared the first time someone fights them! There HAS to be some sort of learning experience to this game, and you keep taking that away. Challenge is good, and as far as I'm concerned, anyone who thinks this game is "too hard" can [Removed for Content] well go back to playing WoW.The real reason WoW is so much more popular than Everquest 2 is because there are far more idiots in the world than smart people, but the smart people need a solid MMO to play too, you know. QFE Wholeheartedly agree! Well said. __________________

01-24-2008, 11:12 AM	#10
KBern Loremaster Join Date: Nov 2004 Posts: 2,372	ReficulFonwaps wrote: I for one support this "nerf". Certain classes were at an extreme disadvantage with this encounter the way it was because 90% of their abilities have dot's on them. When an encounter elimantes the viability of certain classes it needs to be changed, as we see here in this update. Pfft..I am one of those classes that are probably most gimped when fighting this mob and I am totally against this change. They took an easy fight where people simply had to pay attention and not spam hot keys and made the mob into a loot pinata. Ridiculous change to what should be the top end single group instance in the game today. __________________

01-24-2008, 11:23 AM	#11
Aphelion012 General Join Date: Jul 2005 Posts: 14	Karel@Lucan DLere wrote: To whoever said that as an assassin you have to sit out or just auto attack, you simply suck. Not because you put the entire weight of the class on four DoTs ignoring every single other CA we have but because you are so lazy you can't be arsed to time the shield and cancel your DoTs when it's up~. QFE __________________

01-24-2008, 12:05 PM	#12
Bramwe General Join Date: Nov 2004 Posts: 492	I like the change. I am a regular of pick up groups and this encounter is not fun in its current state on live. __________________ width="485" height="151"

01-24-2008, 12:17 PM	#13
Bledso Loremaster Join Date: Apr 2006 Posts: 222	Varuna@Mistmoore wrote: The title says it all, but allow me to go into detail. You all know by now that Drusella Sathir in Maiden's was nerfed. Why? seriously, this was not a difficult encounter, it just required that people pay attention, but now Drusella does all the brain work for you. One of the major aspects of Everquest 2 that sets it apart from other MMORPGs is strategy. This mainly applies to epic encounters, but we finally got some single group mobs that require thought, and not just [I cannot control my vocabulary] button mashing.Apparently that's too hard. SoE has to dumb this game down, systematically, because they think it will pull in more players, since WoW is so easy. Eventually the key demographic of EQ2 is going to be anyone in a [I cannot control my vocabulary] coma. This [I cannot control my vocabulary] seriously needs to stop. You guys release new encounters that are actually difficult, and then proceed to make them easier, and easier, and easier. Don't nerf Drusella, don't nerf any RoK raid mobs (I know this hasn't happened yet, but it will soon enough.). Sony, it's OKAY if some mobs aren't cleared the first time someone fights them! There HAS to be some sort of learning experience to this game, and you keep taking that away. Challenge is good, and as far as I'm concerned, anyone who thinks this game is "too hard" can [Removed for Content] well go back to playing WoW.The real reason WoW is so much more popular than Everquest 2 is because there are far more idiots in the world than smart people, but the smart people need a solid MMO to play too, you know. Calling WoW players idiots is not a good way for you to try and make any kind of point - I played WoW for years and take complete offense at your analogy. The other flaw in your system is limited to your class - as others are pointing out before you impose any type of view you need to look at the system like the Devs do - globally not restricted to your small world of limited classes you played. Try every class and try that encounter then come here and make your points - it may have been ok for you but for a larger player base it was not fun - and regardless of your preferences - like you enjoy an extremely tough challange - others do not - it should be difficult and it should be fun - fun being the optimum word. To degrade players will lose any support of any of your ideas - going back to idiots play WoW so people who are liking this change = WoW players = idiots. Sorry you need to learn to present ideas and not just retort to ranting - there's a real challenge for you.

01-24-2008, 12:24 PM	#14
Thunderthyze Loremaster Join Date: Sep 2005 Location: Old South Wales Posts: 2,050	Bledso wrote: Varuna@Mistmoore wrote: The title says it all, but allow me to go into detail. You all know by now that Drusella Sathir in Maiden's was nerfed. Why? seriously, this was not a difficult encounter, it just required that people pay attention, but now Drusella does all the brain work for you. One of the major aspects of Everquest 2 that sets it apart from other MMORPGs is strategy. This mainly applies to epic encounters, but we finally got some single group mobs that require thought, and not just [I cannot control my vocabulary] button mashing.Apparently that's too hard. SoE has to dumb this game down, systematically, because they think it will pull in more players, since WoW is so easy. Eventually the key demographic of EQ2 is going to be anyone in a [I cannot control my vocabulary] coma. This [I cannot control my vocabulary] seriously needs to stop. You guys release new encounters that are actually difficult, and then proceed to make them easier, and easier, and easier. Don't nerf Drusella, don't nerf any RoK raid mobs (I know this hasn't happened yet, but it will soon enough.). Sony, it's OKAY if some mobs aren't cleared the first time someone fights them! There HAS to be some sort of learning experience to this game, and you keep taking that away. Challenge is good, and as far as I'm concerned, anyone who thinks this game is "too hard" can [Removed for Content] well go back to playing WoW.The real reason WoW is so much more popular than Everquest 2 is because there are far more idiots in the world than smart people, but the smart people need a solid MMO to play too, you know. Calling WoW players idiots is not a good way for you to try and make any kind of point - I played WoW for years and take complete offense at your analogy. The other flaw in your system is limited to your class - as others are pointing out before you impose any type of view you need to look at the system like the Devs do - globally not restricted to your small world of limited classes you played. Try every class and try that encounter then come here and make your points - it may have been ok for you but for a larger player base it was not fun - and regardless of your preferences - like you enjoy an extremely tough challange - others do not - it should be difficult and it should be fun - fun being the optimum word. To degrade players will lose any support of any of your ideas - going back to idiots play WoW so people who are liking this change = WoW players = idiots. Sorry you need to learn to present ideas and not just retort to ranting - there's a real challenge for you. I think the point is that EQ2 began life as a more in depth, complicated, mature game than WoW. I really don't see the point why SOE think that there is enough room in the market for 2 WoWs....there isn't. Leave WoW to the younger players and consolidate EQ2 as a game for people searching for something a little more involved. You will never do WoW as well as Blizzard do.....stop trying. __________________

01-24-2008, 12:49 PM	#15
Vendolyn Lordette Join Date: Mar 2006 Location: The Valley of the Techs Posts: 458	I can't comment on the Drusilla encounter, as I've yet to see her. But I do agree with what some people are saying. I play this game, as I see it as a better middle ground. I played EQ1 for nearly 6 years, 2 boxing a bard and a shaman (yep, I heart button mashing!). But, in the end, it was too much for me. 4am Klandicar raids boxing my own group just so we'd have a shot at Sleeper's wore me down.I played WoW for a couple of years. I played beta and quit roughly 1 year into it being live. Running a semi raid guild, the drama within, and the younger player base killed the game for me. I came back because my boyfriend wanted to start playing again. I prefered EQ2, but it was something we could do together. It took us under a week to go from 60 to the new cap of 70. All it ended up being was grind PVP for gear, run Kara 20,000 times for gear, have random people make fun of you because your character that sat for over a year unplayed was wearing "old world" gear. In the end, it wasn't enough.Finally get internet set up at my new place and return to EQ2. No 72 man raids and endless keying required. Nothing so easy you can get sufficient amounts of MODs to play the game for you. The challenge is here. The lore that kept me playing EQ1 for so long is here. The community I would want from an MMO is here. I really understand what people are talking about here. We love this game. We want it to be EQ2 and nothing else. __________________

01-24-2008, 01:05 PM	#16
Frigid2000 Loremaster Join Date: Dec 2004 Posts: 208	I also, hate the fact this was nerfed. Didn't you people read all of the complaints about the game being too easy already? Most of the instances are snooze fests. I LOVED going through Nizara, City of the Nyad - man, that was HARD. I laughed when I died because I was enjoying it so much. Frankly, I'm surprised that hasn't felt the nerf bat. I feel the same way about Maiden's. Now you're just succumbing to the whiners that cannot think.

01-24-2008, 01:29 PM	#17
Mhedic General Join Date: Feb 2005 Posts: 32	While i have never encounter Druzalla (sp), I have to agree with the OP. I have seen a growing trend in this game that reminds me much of SWG (for those who played it from the begining and the great NGE nerf). SWG started out with you being able to pick and choose your path and there was a lot of diversity in the game and some challenge on getting your skills up there. Even becoming a Jedi was a year long process, and now you can start as one. They really dumbed down the game to the new player and it really become pointless and no fun to play anymore for those of us who played from the begining. I see this in many ways happening to EQ2 and i really don't want to see something like NGE hit EQ2. Leave us some challenges and for those of you who cannot do some epic mobs or dungeons, stop complaining about it and look up some infomation on those mobs or dungeons to help you survive them. Do some research and maybe you will be able to do them. I am sure that all mobs can be killed with the proper knowledge and that is part of the game. If there is a 50/50 base of people whining and those telling you its easy, just leave it alone in my opinion. We love challenge and if you take it away we will be forced to move to another game that will give it to us. __________________ WWW.GOBIDIT.COM

01-24-2008, 01:33 PM	#18
Junaru Loremaster Join Date: Nov 2004 Posts: 1,471	I agree with 1/2 of the changes. I see no reason why having her remove any hostile spells on her is a bad thing. It gives some DoT heavy classes the ability to use these skills/spells where they couldn't before.Now the second change I think is dumb. There is no reason why she would just stand there while her bone cage is up. You would have to be a complete noob to not be able to beat her now. __________________

01-24-2008, 01:54 PM	#19
Virulence Seer Join Date: Aug 2007 Posts: 164	Frankly who cares, the "challenge" crowd has likely already run Maidens so many times they could do it in their sleep. Drusella drops the only loot most are looking for/the only reason people do it again and again. The whole place is a 60 min milk run. I would center my attention on FAR more pressing issues because once the epic questlines are out, doubt there will be much concern over this. I still cant believe people arent infuriated that places like the Shard of Fear arent dropping T8 Masters.

01-24-2008, 02:03 PM	#21
Vorlak Loremaster Join Date: Dec 2004 Posts: 293	Games are designed for enjoyment and at the end of the day if you didnt enjoy something maybe it needs tweeking. some people like challenge, others are just challenged to the point soe has to change the mechanics. You relize that the encounter hasnt changed to much. They are just allowing people to use DOT based abilities now. She just strips off all the dots/debuffs when the shield goes up, she will still heal if you damage her or re-aply the dots makeing it just as hard. The fact that she removes debuffs now is probably the reason she will no longer auto attack while in bone shield, kind of like how us players get stunned or dazed when we do something special, but its all in balance. I really dont see the big issue on drusilla. My biggest issue is with why they changed the first named, i mean hell they might as well of made the mob perma rooted and summon players on its hate list if they wanted you to fight him on his platform.

01-24-2008, 02:05 PM	#22
KBern Loremaster Join Date: Nov 2004 Posts: 2,372	This fight was very simple...yes..simple...once you understood the encounter, which takes not very long and there are enough spoilers to be found anyway. You actually had to think a little bit and not spam every ability you had, no when to stop attacking, and the fight basically just took a little longer than some of the others. This encounter gave many people who choose not to raid a challenging encounter that is akin to a raid type encounter (limitations on abilities, timing required, not just mass button pushing) and rewarded decent loot for the effort. Now you dont even have to think when fighting this mob. I can spam every dot, use my pet and simply pull pet off when the cage goes off....this change does all the work for me, I dont need to think anymore, dont need timing, just need to pull my pet back once in a while and stop casting for a few seconds... Pathetic change. If you couldnt beat this mob, you didnt and dont deserve the loot she has on her table. As someone said, why not just let people hail her and get a random loot item 01 for their trouble. __________________

01-24-2008, 02:29 PM	#23
quasigenx Loremaster Join Date: Nov 2005 Posts: 400	ReficulFonwaps wrote: When an encounter elimantes the viability of certain classes it needs to be changed, as we see here in this update. I don't agree with this, in general. I would love to see encounters here and there that make certain classes much less effective. Cleric reactives heals cause an AoE to wipe the raid? Bring it on! As long as it's not used too much, it would add some nice flavor. __________________

01-24-2008, 05:02 PM	#24
Gorhauth Loremaster Join Date: Nov 2004 Posts: 373	Mhedicin wrote: I have seen a growing trend in this game that reminds me much of SWG (for those who played it from the begining and the great NGE nerf). SWG started out with you being able to pick and choose your path and there was a lot of diversity in the game and some challenge on getting your skills up there. Your idea of diversity is one of three templates to be viable while doing faction missions (mainly because of the PVP that you were guaranteed to encounter while running them)? SWG was anything but diverse in classes. First, it was all Creature Handlers. After they got nerfed, it was all either a fencer template (for the dodge) or CM/Rifleman. Occasionally you'd find the Expert BH/Pistoleer. That is hardly diverse.

01-24-2008, 05:20 PM	#25
Mhedic General Join Date: Feb 2005 Posts: 32	Gorhauth wrote: Mhedicin wrote: I have seen a growing trend in this game that reminds me much of SWG (for those who played it from the begining and the great NGE nerf). SWG started out with you being able to pick and choose your path and there was a lot of diversity in the game and some challenge on getting your skills up there. Your idea of diversity is one of three templates to be viable while doing faction missions (mainly because of the PVP that you were guaranteed to encounter while running them)? SWG was anything but diverse in classes. First, it was all Creature Handlers. After they got nerfed, it was all either a fencer template (for the dodge) or CM/Rifleman. Occasionally you'd find the Expert BH/Pistoleer. That is hardly diverse. Yes, but there was the option for diversity there, not that everybody used it. I know myself was a CH/Pistoleer until NGE. My son was a BH/Rifleman. And i know there was an awesome template for PVP that all people who PVP'd used. But it doesn't take away the option that was there for people to use. Just like what did you keep when you went Jedi. Again more diversity was available. Thats all i was saying there. Let us keep our options open. __________________ WWW.GOBIDIT.COM

01-24-2008, 06:15 PM	#26
krrr Loremaster Join Date: Jan 2006 Posts: 197	Gorhauth wrote: Mhedicin wrote: I have seen a growing trend in this game that reminds me much of SWG (for those who played it from the begining and the great NGE nerf). SWG started out with you being able to pick and choose your path and there was a lot of diversity in the game and some challenge on getting your skills up there. Your idea of diversity is one of three templates to be viable while doing faction missions (mainly because of the PVP that you were guaranteed to encounter while running them)? SWG was anything but diverse in classes. First, it was all Creature Handlers. After they got nerfed, it was all either a fencer template (for the dodge) or CM/Rifleman. Occasionally you'd find the Expert BH/Pistoleer. That is hardly diverse. It`s not lack of diversity, it`s lack of ballance.

01-24-2008, 06:19 PM	#27
Cadori Seraphim Loremaster Join Date: Nov 2004 Location: Dallas, TX Posts: 965	More cursing and annoying posts please! That will surely get the Devs to listen to you.. yup.

01-24-2008, 06:41 PM	#28
Trepan Loremaster Join Date: Nov 2004 Location: Hellbound Handbasket Posts: 417	ReficulFonwaps wrote: When an encounter elimantes the viability of certain classes it needs to be changed, as we see here in this update. Wow, then Coercers have some hope against Every Single Named in ROK?Oh, wait, sorry... I was dreaming again.PS: As a clarification all true heroic+ named that I've run into in RoK are immune to stifle, stun, mez and root. Reactives still work, but it really does shut down a majority of the things a group learns to depend on from my class.... oh yeah, and they also took away the power drain on Mr. Spermy... so yay, you're absolutely right. ----------Now, regarding the actual topic. I would LOVE encounters that are really really really hard to beat that don't get nerfed that single groups can try again and again. Those who complete it would have bragging rights. Those who don't beat it will have whining rights, but no change to the encounter after it is implemented. I understand that encounters that were put in place with the expectation that everyone would face and defeat it will have to be tuned down if too difficult... I'd just like to see some encounters with a different expectation.Thanks! __________________

01-24-2008, 06:48 PM	#29
KBern Loremaster Join Date: Nov 2004 Posts: 2,372	Trepan wrote: ReficulFonwaps wrote: When an encounter elimantes the viability of certain classes it needs to be changed, as we see here in this update. Wow, then Coercers have some hope against Every Single Named in ROK?Oh, wait, sorry... I was dreaming again.PS: As a clarification all true heroic+ named that I've run into in RoK are immune to stifle, stun, mez and root. Reactives still work, but it really does shut down a majority of the things a group learns to depend on from my class.... oh yeah, and they also took away the power drain on Mr. Spermy... so yay, you're absolutely right. " width="15" height="15">---------- lol yeah. And almost every raid encounter in game eliminates or reduces the viability of many abilities of many classes. We adapt and beat the mob. People who dont raid asked and begged for challenging raid type encounters that offered challenge and reward. This was it. I stress the word WAS. I guess in the end much of this whining for better content wasnt about being offered a challenge commensurate with raiding as was said, but simply about having access to loot as many thought. __________________

01-24-2008, 07:01 PM	#30
Gungo Loremaster Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: Crushbone Posts: 5,378	Vorlak wrote: Games are designed for enjoyment and at the end of the day if you didnt enjoy something maybe it needs tweeking.some people like challenge, others are just challenged to the point soe has to change the mechanics.You relize that the encounter hasnt changed to much. They are just allowing people to use DOT based abilities now.She just strips off all the dots/debuffs when the shield goes up, she will still heal if you damage her or re-aply the dots makeing it just as hard.The fact that she removes debuffs now is probably the reason she will no longer auto attack while in bone shield, kind of like how us players get stunned or dazed when we do something special, but its all in balance.I really dont see the big issue on drusilla. My biggest issue is with why they changed the first named, i mean hell they might as well of made the mob perma rooted and summon players on its hate list if they wanted you to fight him on his platform. You apparently did a poor job of reading the patch notes. maybe her dispelling all her dots and debuffs is warrented for the lazy acorwd that pays no attention. Fine hey at least she strips all debuffs now making her hit harder... O wait no Now she does absolutely no damage whatso ever when the sheild is up. It doesnt even matter anymore if someone pulls agro becuase she cant do anything. yes this encounter has been completely gimped making the 3 sisters actually a harder fight. Why? i have no clue becuase every pickup group/guild group i been in this zone with has had no issues killing this mob. Yet it needed to be completely made into a non damageing non healing joke? Come on now. Dont be so blind by your own inadeqate playing.