Re: Dec 06 Test Notes - Leave Brawler FD Alone. - Page 4

Junaru · 12-10-2007, 02:58 PM

Poogy@Blackburrow wrote:

Junaru wrote:
Ok I have an idea to fix the accidental stand problem. If you make a macro with an insta-cast skill/spell in the 1st line then FD in the second it should keep you from standing since it will queue up the spell/skill and not hit FD (Because you can't cast while FDed). It's pretty sad that we need to come up with ideas like this to counter "fixes" that SOE puts in place.
That might help some people with the spamming aspect, but it doesn't do jack to fix the real problem of the refresh timers that this creates " />
I just realized how bad this is going to mess me up when FD fails. In addition to the 10 seconds of beatdown time waiting for the refresh, I also get additional beatdown time while I lay there waiting for the game to stand me back up on a failed FD.

I agree 100%. I find it funny though that I had to make up a macro to stop SOE "fix".

Cusashorn · 12-10-2007, 03:25 PM

We NEED a Developer comment on this. If they don't explain it to us on the boards, then they better explain it in a dev chat somewhere, or at a fan faire.

I hope they realize that it's the PLAYERBASE who knows what is best for this game. They may be the developers and programmers, but it's the playerbase that keep the game running. It's the playerbase who knows how the game should be changed to be more fun for all players.

And if by some chance that the developers are implimenting this change because ONE player was jealous of the brawler's abilities, then they need to remember that Majority Rule should always apply. If one player complains, it's not an issue. if HUNDREDS of players protest, then it needs to be addressed.

Avokk · 12-10-2007, 03:38 PM

"I hope they realize that it's the PLAYERBASE who knows what is best for this game"That made me laugh so hard i think i broke bonesSorry, but if playerbase was developing this game everyone would have lazer goggles, 1 gazillion HP god mode and 1000plat a day for shopping

Morrolan V · 12-10-2007, 04:37 PM

greenmantle wrote:

Geist wrote:
FD is one of the fews things not totally broken or gimped on Brawlers, please don't break the only thing that actually works for us by messing with it needlessly.
One of the best solo clases in the game a great tank (if the person behind the screen knows what they are doing) some problems getting into raids yes but then so does every other tank class.
So why does every minor change to bruisers become a 6 page whine fest of omg look how bad we are how dare they, its gotten pretty old pretty fast you want to try gimped try a ranger or a bard or perhaps learn your class rather than expecting the dev's to hand you the game on a platter.

I have long said that brawlers were excellent solo classes. A SIGNIFICANT reason for this is FD and our ability to move around difficult areas solo b/c of it. If they make this change with the refresh timer, it will really substantially reduce the soloability of this class.

circusgirl · 12-10-2007, 05:15 PM

Leave FD alone!

delbranson · 12-10-2007, 08:21 PM

I'm not terribly worried about my accidently doubleclicking the feign and cancelling it prematurely. It may happen on occasion, but we can adapt and just not click it repeatedly in a panic. Its still unnecessary though. The note rather showed the ignorance of the developer regarding this skill, saying to make it a toggle so we're not forced to exclusively just use a right-click cancel method of ending it. Nobody right-clicks and cancels anyway, and anyone who played a feign death class for more than a day would know that. Pressing the X key to stand was, is, and always will be fine, and any change is a waste of time.

If this change goes into effect and negatively impacts the reuse speed, then I meet it with absolute disapproval. If it's the intent to nerf the reuse speed on feign death, then that's just wrong and you need to find better ways to spend your time. There are significant defects in brawler classes already, to include poor scaling of damage potential through achievements compared to other fighters and near total absence of T8 armor and weapons. Other classes have legitimate problems as well. Why waste time nerfing aspects of a beloved ability that has been the same for years when that time could be spent focused on actually bettering the game in the areas people are concerned about?

Zabjade · 12-10-2007, 09:29 PM

Avokk wrote:

"I hope they realize that it's the PLAYERBASE who knows what is best for this game"That made me laugh so hard i think i broke bonesSorry, but if playerbase was developing this game everyone would have lazer goggles, 1 gazillion HP god mode and 1000plat a day for shopping

We are not talking about a single ex-wow-player more like a community with a consensus. We know what is broken they do not have any major developers who play a brawler of any kind as a main, or if they do then they should be ashamed of themselves for giga-nerfing us to a tradeskiller only class!

thepriz · 12-10-2007, 09:32 PM

This seems to be a problem with SOE designing games. They can't figure out how to give utility to characters and still make the game challenging. There biggest reason to not add levitation to the game is that it would allow people to pass mobs because you could just levitate over it. Another example is illusions don't work in EQ2 worth a dang. Players have come up with skills using there skills to beat the content in the game. Players should be rewarded for using skill not nerfed.Developers should develop content that allows characters use there skills to overcome content. I think the problem is that the Devs think people are bypassing content instead of overcoming it using a different technique. One of the worst things a DM could do in Dungeons & Dragons was force players to overcome content the exact way the DM envisioned the scene playing out. Just because a player uses spider climb to climb past, levitate to float over, or disarm to disarm a trap doesn't make it wrong it is just a different way to overcome the same problem.

Jobeson · 12-10-2007, 09:47 PM

making this toggle will be a terrible change please do not do it.

Zabjade · 12-10-2007, 11:38 PM

Deran@Everfrost wrote:

This seems to be a problem with SOE designing games. They can't figure out how to give utility to characters and still make the game challenging. There biggest reason to not add levitation to the game is that it would allow people to pass mobs because you could just levitate over it. Another example is illusions don't work in EQ2 worth a dang. Players have come up with skills using there skills to beat the content in the game. Players should be rewarded for using skill not nerfed.Developers should develop content that allows characters use there skills to overcome content. I think the problem is that the Devs think people are bypassing content instead of overcoming it using a different technique. One of the worst things a DM could do in Dungeons & Dragons was force players to overcome content the exact way the DM envisioned the scene playing out. Just because a player uses spider climb to climb past, levitate to float over, or disarm to disarm a trap doesn't make it wrong it is just a different way to overcome the same problem.

Exactly! It is using your brains to overcome the lack of avoidance/mitigation. Rather then fighting through ^^^'s when there are few groups.

Igorsrath · 12-10-2007, 11:54 PM

Add this to the healer gear I get to now wear/lack of brawler quest rewards and its just one more reason to cancel my account.

Grimslap

Zabjade · 12-11-2007, 12:53 AM

I've been going to the Mastercrafted stuff which is going to get a boost in 41, and I think I'm going to need it.

kojuro · 12-11-2007, 02:39 AM

Wow. My monk is the only toon I play, and I've played it for 2 years now. FD is what I would call the brawler's class-defining ability. Messing with it so that the recast timer does not start until you stand up is simply unfair - we already have mediocre tanking and DPS abilities, so why the need to weaken FD as well? On the other hand, if you devs want to compensate us by giving us taunt that isn't just a pat on the [Removed for Content] or a couple of OMG damage attacks, then fine, nerf it. I just don't understand why the devs want this class to be just a tradeskill toon...

LEAVE FD ALONE, PLEASE!

Rhyls · 12-11-2007, 03:17 AM

Sheesh...I have been playing Everquest in some form or another since March of 2000. I was a raid main tank of a successful guild in EQ1. My play time will never be what it used to be, but still, I have been a loyal EQ/EQ2 gamer for a long time. Hell, my wife even started her own account and she has been playing almost every day since 2002.I leveled 3 characters to 70 and have many other 40+. Although my main in EQ1 was a warrior, my favorite character to play was my alt monk. When I came over to EQ2 I started a ranger and then got hit with nerf bat after nerf bat and switched to assassin. I realized that I should have learned my lesson from EQ1 and started an Iksar Bruiser. I did level a SK to 70 because of some friends, but the bruiser was always my favorite, and mostly for the same reason as it was in EQ1. I was able to DPS a little, solo well and get to places that most others could not. Monks were never the preferred melee based DPS in EQ1 and they are not in EQ2, but [Removed for Content] near everyone I knew had one as an alt. Why?Because when you could not find a group on your main, the monk in a fungi tunic was the most viable melee based solo class. Oh, and for another reason, they are [Removed for Content] fun to play. Part of that fun to play jalopy, was primarily the ability to solo and get places other classes could not. Now you want to nerf the class because the average brawler can feign down to the basement of SoS and get him some leet Legendary loot to pawn for 50 gold? Swell.Being that my bruiser is about the only thing that keeps me clinging to this game, if the nerf goes live, I will finally after almost eight years cancel my account. My wife has been looking for an excuse to go back to EQ1 to rejoin her old raid guild on Bristlebane.....or maybe go try out WoW where her tagolog speaking friends are. My void will be filled with far less nerf bat frustration by CoD4 and Assassins Creed.

Kaoru · 12-11-2007, 03:18 AM

FD has been worked fine for the past 3 years. There is absolutely no reason to change it now. Leave it alone SOE

Stonecut · 12-11-2007, 05:33 AM

"Press X"

The only stated rationale for this change in the test update notes is that you no longer have to explicitly right-click the ability to cancel it. As many have already said all you need to do to cancel FD, whether you are a brawler or other class currently under its effects, is to press X. Be it a raid or group setting, whenever I've used Fall of the Phoenix and someone was unclear on how to get up all I had to say was "type X" and the issue would be forever resolved. No one cancels FD through right-clicking once they learn about "pressing x."

I've often read but never felt compelled to post on these boards. I make a notable exception in this one case. This proposed "change", being instituted despite a host of other issues currently plaguing both the bruiser and monk classes which are discussed daily in their respective forums, is so profoundly misguided and devoid of justification as to receive the near universal condemnation and protest of the entire brawler community. If the proposed changes to the brawler strength AA line earlier this summer could be derailed through the objections of those who liked it for its roleplaying merits and those who felt the changes were no where near sufficient to justify their implementation then surely the growing chorus of resistance and the mounting threats of canceled subscriptions (hyperbolic though some may be) should be enough to demonstrate the manifest folly of this proposal.

The current mechanics of feign death work properly and as intended. If you don't want to cancel FD by right-clicking, simply "Press X."

ChrissyFaey · 12-11-2007, 06:03 AM

This is just horrible. There should be free class rerolls for brawlers after all of this. ;/

Exordus · 12-11-2007, 08:29 AM

Igorsrath wrote:

Add this to the healer gear I get to now wear/lack of brawler quest rewards and its just one more reason to cancel my account.
Grimslap

GRIMMY!!!!!!!

Love ya buddy.

~X~

JonnyBlaaze · 12-11-2007, 11:08 AM

Igorsrath wrote:
Add this to the healer gear I get to now wear/lack of brawler quest rewards and its just one more reason to cancel my account.
Grimslap

/agree

If this goes live, theyre gonna see alot of us stop playing. FD is the last class defining ability us brawlers have left. Take it away or beat it with the nerf bat and you essentially destroy whats left of this class.

With all the people whining about the ease of this expansion and how quick it was to level, why not focus resources on that? Why [Removed for Content] with something that isnt broken and [Removed for Content] off the masses?

Ganlu · 12-11-2007, 11:15 AM

While I may not think this change is warranted, some people are acting like feign death is useless if this change goes through. It still makes brawlers a very high survivability class, because you can feign if a pull goes badly or a fight is not going your way. As long as you pull away from the spawn spot, having to stand up and wait for feign to recharge won't matter.

Silence01 · 12-11-2007, 11:22 AM

Very Stupid Idea from SOE VERY VERY Stupid!!!

Junaru · 12-11-2007, 11:47 AM

Ganluan@Antonia Bayle wrote:

While I may not think this change is warranted, some people are acting like feign death is useless if this change goes through. It still makes brawlers a very high survivability class, because you can feign if a pull goes badly or a fight is not going your way. As long as you pull away from the spawn spot, having to stand up and wait for feign to recharge won't matter.

Clearly you don't understand the full effect. Say I'm on a raid and we charge a mob. Everyone wipes except I FD. Well before I could stand up, jump, FD again and hope to survive a hit or two and maybe an AoE. Then wait 7sec and repeat till I'm out of the danger zone and can res people.Now thats not an option. If I FD near a mob I'm as good as dead now. Sorry but FD was NEVER a "Get out of jail free" card and now it's worse.

KBern · 12-11-2007, 11:58 AM

If FD actually WIPED agro as opposed to SUSPENDED agro I would almost be OK with this change...almost.

But it doesnt work the way it worked in EQ1....many complained but we have gotten used to it over the years EQ2 has been out.

Now this change out of the blue for no actual stated reason but some PR fluff BS they are tossing around as if people actually complained to them in droves about not being able to cancel FD.

Now in the goodness of their hearts they are "helping" us all out with this wonderful new change.

At least cut the BS SOE and let us know the real reason this change is going through.

clizzy2000 · 12-11-2007, 02:12 PM

Rhyls wrote:

Sheesh... My void will be filled with far less nerf bat frustration by CoD4 and Assassins Creed.

I agree. I put a bunch of games on hold to come back and play this. It's not like I'm going to be bored and come running back if you do this. I have Bioshock, Half Life Ep2, COD4, crysis, oblivion, Protal, Mario Galaxies all waiting to be played or only half way played. You aren't the only thing out there. My account is canceled, and I'm not signing back up if this goes through.

Supp · 12-11-2007, 02:18 PM

Here's what we need to have happen. Maybe I should even make a new thread on this.

DOMINO !

We need Domino to make a brawler. Domino, make either brawler and roll her up, please. Since it's become clear that you are the only dev who isnt slathered with hatred or nerf complexes AND actually communicates with the community, we could really use you in our corner! I realize that youre responsible for crafting related content, but they apparently need to expand your power! Oh, and give her more money SOE!

Everything I hear about Domino is nothing but praise. I even heard that at fanfaire, her booth was more crowded than all other dev booths combined. Come on brawlers, lets get her!

Supp · 12-11-2007, 02:26 PM

clizzy2000 wrote:

Rhyls wrote:
Sheesh... My void will be filled with far less nerf bat frustration by CoD4 and Assassins Creed.
I agree. I put a bunch of games on hold to come back and play this. It's not like I'm going to be bored and come running back if you do this. I have Bioshock, Half Life Ep2, COD4, crysis, oblivion, Protal, Mario Galaxies all waiting to be played or only half way played. You aren't the only thing out there. My account is canceled, and I'm not signing back up if this goes through.

I'm right there with you Clizzy. I'm going to raid a few months if only to show some respect for my guildies and verify my thoughts, but I'm all but decided at this point that my two 3 year old accounts are getting deactivated and not getting reactivated until the next expansion, and that's only IF they reinstate the content that I enjoy. This brawler nerf and the AA switcher absurdity are only the icing on the cake for me. There is much missing from Kunark, much ignored. It's almost like they engineered it to make me personally quit.

Final Fantasy 12, Heavenly Sword and Eve Online all sit half played just waiting for their opportunity. And this is to say nothing of Final Fantasy 13, GTA4 and Star Wars The Force Unleashed, all due out in the March timeframe. As you say, there are many nonNerfhappy games awaiting me.

Novusod · 12-11-2007, 02:57 PM

Supple wrote:

I'm right there with you Clizzy. I'm going to raid a few months if only to show some respect for my guildies and verify my thoughts, but I'm all but decided at this point that my two 3 year old accounts are getting deactivated and not getting reactivated until the next expansion, and that's only IF they reinstate the content that I enjoy. This brawler nerf and the AA switcher absurdity are only the icing on the cake for me. There is much missing from Kunark, much ignored. It's almost like they engineered it to make me personally quit.
Final Fantasy 12, Heavenly Sword and Eve Online all sit half played just waiting for their opportunity. And this is to say nothing of Final Fantasy 13, GTA4 and Star Wars The Force Unleashed, all due out in the March timeframe. As you say, there are many nonNerfhappy games awaiting me.

What kind of limp wristed threat is that. If FD gets ruined in LU41 then I am gone and never coming back not even for EQ3 or any other product SoE puts out. RoK has been one disaster after another for my Bruiser. Where are the bruiser upgrades. Avoidance tanking has been broken since EoF came out and our dps has gone down to near irrelevance. Warriors get a sword that can auto attack for 4k and we get nothing but nerfs. One has to draw a line and know when to walk away. That time is now.

Dyse · 12-11-2007, 03:01 PM

If this goes through, and I hope it doesn't, it will prove one of 2 things.

1. Developers are not allowed to read these forums because they'll grow a conscience.

2. They don't speak english. (This must be true since the Anime character models and Mara) It's all left to English speaking PR people to sift through and not know how to report back that the playerbase doesn't like a change. The Live Update notes are translated with Google Language.

Why they fight us, I'll never know. They always win in the end. No way to turn tide. You can holler Cancel all you want, but 1% of everyone who says that actually does. There's no way, even if this thread goes to 100 pages before the fiascle goes live, will they go back on something they said. Makes them look week and bendable. Makes them think, "If we bend on this issue, they'll think we'll bend on a future issue... to hell with the customer... keep on with the Live Update as planned". SoE is God, don't you know. You can Pray all you want to them, it's like praying for a winning lottery ticket... not gonna happen.

It's in print 'Toggle' and it's gotta stay that way. So we just pay more to the Mender for a hastey click click click click.

My time here is almost at an end. Will be this weekend when I get my 4th 80 (SOLO) and be totally bored with an expansion that cost double and too easy to play.

Iari111 · 12-11-2007, 04:13 PM

Do my eyes deceive me, or is there not a single dev post in this entire thread? How disappointing.I've been playing this game since Jan '05. My monk has been my main since February of that same year. Since then, she and I have endured all of the changes done to the class. Some changes have been good. Most have been bad. In the nearly three years I've played, I've been outright laughed at when I suggested to a group that I tank. At one time, monks' dps more than made up for the stigma against us as sub-par tanks. We have been relegated to the status of a solo class.Just the other night, I hit FD. It failed. I used my /stand macro, hit group FD. That failed too. /stand, FD again, and I lived. Barely. HP was in the red. After this change goes live, with the FD timer not refreshing until FD is canceled, I would have been dead. As others have said, FD is a class defining ability. And now this change will go live, which removes a vital part to the solo brawler's survivability. I agree with a poster on page 2 or 3 who stated that the devs know exactly what they are doing. This is not about the ease of canceling FD. This is about nerfing our ability to FD our way through a zone/dungeon. But what the devs seem to be forgetting/ignoring is that they are severely gimping a defining ability from a class that has been relegated, by all of their other nerfs to it, to soloing. There isn't a dev post here because they don't have the guts to admit the real reason for this change, nor the ability to tell convincing lies and platitudes.But hey devs, thanks so much for this upcoming change: "Cockatrice housepets now have additional interactions." I guess I won't leave the game after all. /rollseyes

Arathy · 12-11-2007, 04:48 PM

Lunara@Butcherblock wrote:

Do my eyes deceive me, or is there not a single dev post in this entire thread? How disappointing.

Probably because they've got nothing but some weak excuse for this nerf. And if they are reading, then guess what guys. I've endured nerf after nerf on theis toon - the only toon I enjoy playing out of all 24 you all created for this game. If this goes live.. I'm out. I've had it. This is just sheer stupidity. Something that's worked fine for 4 years.. and all of a sudden it needs a change? Get bent. You want to fix something of ours? Start with our "superior" avoidance which is actually inferior in most cases.

12-10-2007, 02:58 PM	#91
Junaru Loremaster Join Date: Nov 2004 Posts: 1,471	Poogy@Blackburrow wrote: Junaru wrote: Ok I have an idea to fix the accidental stand problem. If you make a macro with an insta-cast skill/spell in the 1st line then FD in the second it should keep you from standing since it will queue up the spell/skill and not hit FD (Because you can't cast while FDed). It's pretty sad that we need to come up with ideas like this to counter "fixes" that SOE puts in place. That might help some people with the spamming aspect, but it doesn't do jack to fix the real problem of the refresh timers that this creates " /> I just realized how bad this is going to mess me up when FD fails. In addition to the 10 seconds of beatdown time waiting for the refresh, I also get additional beatdown time while I lay there waiting for the game to stand me back up on a failed FD. I agree 100%. I find it funny though that I had to make up a macro to stop SOE "fix". __________________

12-10-2007, 04:37 PM	#94
Morrolan V Loremaster Join Date: Dec 2004 Posts: 624	greenmantle wrote: Geist wrote: FD is one of the fews things not totally broken or gimped on Brawlers, please don't break the only thing that actually works for us by messing with it needlessly. One of the best solo clases in the game a great tank (if the person behind the screen knows what they are doing) some problems getting into raids yes but then so does every other tank class. So why does every minor change to bruisers become a 6 page whine fest of omg look how bad we are how dare they, its gotten pretty old pretty fast you want to try gimped try a ranger or a bard or perhaps learn your class rather than expecting the dev's to hand you the game on a platter. I have long said that brawlers were excellent solo classes. A SIGNIFICANT reason for this is FD and our ability to move around difficult areas solo b/c of it. If they make this change with the refresh timer, it will really substantially reduce the soloability of this class.

12-10-2007, 09:29 PM	#97
Zabjade Loremaster Join Date: Feb 2005 Posts: 4,631	Avokk wrote: "I hope they realize that it's the PLAYERBASE who knows what is best for this game"That made me laugh so hard i think i broke bonesSorry, but if playerbase was developing this game everyone would have lazer goggles, 1 gazillion HP god mode and 1000plat a day for shopping We are not talking about a single ex-wow-player more like a community with a consensus. We know what is broken they do not have any major developers who play a brawler of any kind as a main, or if they do then they should be ashamed of themselves for giga-nerfing us to a tradeskiller only class! __________________

12-10-2007, 09:32 PM	#98
thepriz Loremaster Join Date: Dec 2004 Posts: 219	This seems to be a problem with SOE designing games. They can't figure out how to give utility to characters and still make the game challenging. There biggest reason to not add levitation to the game is that it would allow people to pass mobs because you could just levitate over it. Another example is illusions don't work in EQ2 worth a dang. Players have come up with skills using there skills to beat the content in the game. Players should be rewarded for using skill not nerfed.Developers should develop content that allows characters use there skills to overcome content. I think the problem is that the Devs think people are bypassing content instead of overcoming it using a different technique. One of the worst things a DM could do in Dungeons & Dragons was force players to overcome content the exact way the DM envisioned the scene playing out. Just because a player uses spider climb to climb past, levitate to float over, or disarm to disarm a trap doesn't make it wrong it is just a different way to overcome the same problem. __________________

12-10-2007, 11:38 PM	#100
Zabjade Loremaster Join Date: Feb 2005 Posts: 4,631	Deran@Everfrost wrote: This seems to be a problem with SOE designing games. They can't figure out how to give utility to characters and still make the game challenging. There biggest reason to not add levitation to the game is that it would allow people to pass mobs because you could just levitate over it. Another example is illusions don't work in EQ2 worth a dang. Players have come up with skills using there skills to beat the content in the game. Players should be rewarded for using skill not nerfed.Developers should develop content that allows characters use there skills to overcome content. I think the problem is that the Devs think people are bypassing content instead of overcoming it using a different technique. One of the worst things a DM could do in Dungeons & Dragons was force players to overcome content the exact way the DM envisioned the scene playing out. Just because a player uses spider climb to climb past, levitate to float over, or disarm to disarm a trap doesn't make it wrong it is just a different way to overcome the same problem. Exactly! It is using your brains to overcome the lack of avoidance/mitigation. Rather then fighting through ^^^'s when there are few groups. __________________

12-10-2007, 03:25 PM	#92
Cusashorn Loremaster Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: Cheeseland, USA Posts: 14,919	We NEED a Developer comment on this. If they don't explain it to us on the boards, then they better explain it in a dev chat somewhere, or at a fan faire. I hope they realize that it's the PLAYERBASE who knows what is best for this game. They may be the developers and programmers, but it's the playerbase that keep the game running. It's the playerbase who knows how the game should be changed to be more fun for all players. And if by some chance that the developers are implimenting this change because ONE player was jealous of the brawler's abilities, then they need to remember that Majority Rule should always apply. If one player complains, it's not an issue. if HUNDREDS of players protest, then it needs to be addressed.

12-10-2007, 03:38 PM	#93
Avokk Loremaster Join Date: Nov 2004 Posts: 102	"I hope they realize that it's the PLAYERBASE who knows what is best for this game"That made me laugh so hard i think i broke bonesSorry, but if playerbase was developing this game everyone would have lazer goggles, 1 gazillion HP god mode and 1000plat a day for shopping

12-10-2007, 05:15 PM	#95
circusgirl Loremaster Join Date: Dec 2004 Posts: 1,424	Leave FD alone!

12-10-2007, 08:21 PM	#96
delbranson Loremaster Join Date: Mar 2005 Location: USA Posts: 49	I'm not terribly worried about my accidently doubleclicking the feign and cancelling it prematurely. It may happen on occasion, but we can adapt and just not click it repeatedly in a panic. Its still unnecessary though. The note rather showed the ignorance of the developer regarding this skill, saying to make it a toggle so we're not forced to exclusively just use a right-click cancel method of ending it. Nobody right-clicks and cancels anyway, and anyone who played a feign death class for more than a day would know that. Pressing the X key to stand was, is, and always will be fine, and any change is a waste of time. If this change goes into effect and negatively impacts the reuse speed, then I meet it with absolute disapproval. If it's the intent to nerf the reuse speed on feign death, then that's just wrong and you need to find better ways to spend your time. There are significant defects in brawler classes already, to include poor scaling of damage potential through achievements compared to other fighters and near total absence of T8 armor and weapons. Other classes have legitimate problems as well. Why waste time nerfing aspects of a beloved ability that has been the same for years when that time could be spent focused on actually bettering the game in the areas people are concerned about?

12-10-2007, 09:47 PM	#99
Jobeson Loremaster Join Date: Jan 2005 Posts: 127	making this toggle will be a terrible change please do not do it.

12-10-2007, 11:54 PM	#101
Igorsrath Loremaster Join Date: Apr 2006 Posts: 21	Add this to the healer gear I get to now wear/lack of brawler quest rewards and its just one more reason to cancel my account. Grimslap

12-11-2007, 12:53 AM	#102
Zabjade Loremaster Join Date: Feb 2005 Posts: 4,631	I've been going to the Mastercrafted stuff which is going to get a boost in 41, and I think I'm going to need it. __________________

12-11-2007, 02:39 AM	#103
kojuro Loremaster Join Date: Aug 2006 Posts: 23	Wow. My monk is the only toon I play, and I've played it for 2 years now. FD is what I would call the brawler's class-defining ability. Messing with it so that the recast timer does not start until you stand up is simply unfair - we already have mediocre tanking and DPS abilities, so why the need to weaken FD as well? On the other hand, if you devs want to compensate us by giving us taunt that isn't just a pat on the [Removed for Content] or a couple of OMG damage attacks, then fine, nerf it. I just don't understand why the devs want this class to be just a tradeskill toon... LEAVE FD ALONE, PLEASE!

12-11-2007, 03:17 AM	#104
Rhyls Loremaster Join Date: Mar 2005 Posts: 17	Sheesh...I have been playing Everquest in some form or another since March of 2000. I was a raid main tank of a successful guild in EQ1. My play time will never be what it used to be, but still, I have been a loyal EQ/EQ2 gamer for a long time. Hell, my wife even started her own account and she has been playing almost every day since 2002.I leveled 3 characters to 70 and have many other 40+. Although my main in EQ1 was a warrior, my favorite character to play was my alt monk. When I came over to EQ2 I started a ranger and then got hit with nerf bat after nerf bat and switched to assassin. I realized that I should have learned my lesson from EQ1 and started an Iksar Bruiser. I did level a SK to 70 because of some friends, but the bruiser was always my favorite, and mostly for the same reason as it was in EQ1. I was able to DPS a little, solo well and get to places that most others could not. Monks were never the preferred melee based DPS in EQ1 and they are not in EQ2, but [Removed for Content] near everyone I knew had one as an alt. Why?Because when you could not find a group on your main, the monk in a fungi tunic was the most viable melee based solo class. Oh, and for another reason, they are [Removed for Content] fun to play. Part of that fun to play jalopy, was primarily the ability to solo and get places other classes could not. Now you want to nerf the class because the average brawler can feign down to the basement of SoS and get him some leet Legendary loot to pawn for 50 gold? Swell.Being that my bruiser is about the only thing that keeps me clinging to this game, if the nerf goes live, I will finally after almost eight years cancel my account. My wife has been looking for an excuse to go back to EQ1 to rejoin her old raid guild on Bristlebane.....or maybe go try out WoW where her tagolog speaking friends are. My void will be filled with far less nerf bat frustration by CoD4 and Assassins Creed.

12-11-2007, 03:18 AM	#105
Kaoru Server: Blackburrow Guild: Nemesis Rank: Officer Loremaster Join Date: Nov 2004 Posts: 51	FD has been worked fine for the past 3 years. There is absolutely no reason to change it now. Leave it alone SOE __________________

12-11-2007, 05:33 AM	#106
Stonecut Loremaster Join Date: Dec 2005 Posts: 11	"Press X" The only stated rationale for this change in the test update notes is that you no longer have to explicitly right-click the ability to cancel it. As many have already said all you need to do to cancel FD, whether you are a brawler or other class currently under its effects, is to press X. Be it a raid or group setting, whenever I've used Fall of the Phoenix and someone was unclear on how to get up all I had to say was "type X" and the issue would be forever resolved. No one cancels FD through right-clicking once they learn about "pressing x." I've often read but never felt compelled to post on these boards. I make a notable exception in this one case. This proposed "change", being instituted despite a host of other issues currently plaguing both the bruiser and monk classes which are discussed daily in their respective forums, is so profoundly misguided and devoid of justification as to receive the near universal condemnation and protest of the entire brawler community. If the proposed changes to the brawler strength AA line earlier this summer could be derailed through the objections of those who liked it for its roleplaying merits and those who felt the changes were no where near sufficient to justify their implementation then surely the growing chorus of resistance and the mounting threats of canceled subscriptions (hyperbolic though some may be) should be enough to demonstrate the manifest folly of this proposal. The current mechanics of feign death work properly and as intended. If you don't want to cancel FD by right-clicking, simply "Press X."

12-11-2007, 06:03 AM	#107
ChrissyFaey Loremaster Join Date: Jun 2007 Posts: 231	This is just horrible. There should be free class rerolls for brawlers after all of this. ;/

12-11-2007, 08:29 AM	#108
Exordus Loremaster Join Date: May 2005 Posts: 164	Igorsrath wrote: Add this to the healer gear I get to now wear/lack of brawler quest rewards and its just one more reason to cancel my account. Grimslap GRIMMY!!!!!!! Love ya buddy. ~X~ __________________

12-11-2007, 11:08 AM	#109
JonnyBlaaze Loremaster Join Date: Nov 2004 Posts: 48	Igorsrath wrote: Add this to the healer gear I get to now wear/lack of brawler quest rewards and its just one more reason to cancel my account. Grimslap /agree If this goes live, theyre gonna see alot of us stop playing. FD is the last class defining ability us brawlers have left. Take it away or beat it with the nerf bat and you essentially destroy whats left of this class. With all the people whining about the ease of this expansion and how quick it was to level, why not focus resources on that? Why [Removed for Content] with something that isnt broken and [Removed for Content] off the masses? __________________ ------------------ Abe Frohman, Sausage King of Chicago

12-11-2007, 11:15 AM	#110
Ganlu General Join Date: Aug 2005 Posts: 315	While I may not think this change is warranted, some people are acting like feign death is useless if this change goes through. It still makes brawlers a very high survivability class, because you can feign if a pull goes badly or a fight is not going your way. As long as you pull away from the spawn spot, having to stand up and wait for feign to recharge won't matter. __________________

12-11-2007, 11:22 AM	#111
Silence01 Loremaster Join Date: Nov 2004 Posts: 89	Very Stupid Idea from SOE VERY VERY Stupid!!! __________________

12-11-2007, 11:47 AM	#112
Junaru Loremaster Join Date: Nov 2004 Posts: 1,471	Ganluan@Antonia Bayle wrote: While I may not think this change is warranted, some people are acting like feign death is useless if this change goes through. It still makes brawlers a very high survivability class, because you can feign if a pull goes badly or a fight is not going your way. As long as you pull away from the spawn spot, having to stand up and wait for feign to recharge won't matter. Clearly you don't understand the full effect. Say I'm on a raid and we charge a mob. Everyone wipes except I FD. Well before I could stand up, jump, FD again and hope to survive a hit or two and maybe an AoE. Then wait 7sec and repeat till I'm out of the danger zone and can res people.Now thats not an option. If I FD near a mob I'm as good as dead now. Sorry but FD was NEVER a "Get out of jail free" card and now it's worse. __________________

12-11-2007, 11:58 AM	#113
KBern Loremaster Join Date: Nov 2004 Posts: 2,372	If FD actually WIPED agro as opposed to SUSPENDED agro I would almost be OK with this change...almost. But it doesnt work the way it worked in EQ1....many complained but we have gotten used to it over the years EQ2 has been out. Now this change out of the blue for no actual stated reason but some PR fluff BS they are tossing around as if people actually complained to them in droves about not being able to cancel FD. Now in the goodness of their hearts they are "helping" us all out with this wonderful new change. At least cut the BS SOE and let us know the real reason this change is going through. __________________

12-11-2007, 02:12 PM	#114
clizzy2000 Loremaster Join Date: Jan 2006 Posts: 13	Rhyls wrote: Sheesh... My void will be filled with far less nerf bat frustration by CoD4 and Assassins Creed. I agree. I put a bunch of games on hold to come back and play this. It's not like I'm going to be bored and come running back if you do this. I have Bioshock, Half Life Ep2, COD4, crysis, oblivion, Protal, Mario Galaxies all waiting to be played or only half way played. You aren't the only thing out there. My account is canceled, and I'm not signing back up if this goes through.

12-11-2007, 02:18 PM	#115
Supp General Join Date: Feb 2005 Posts: 687	Here's what we need to have happen. Maybe I should even make a new thread on this. DOMINO ! We need Domino to make a brawler. Domino, make either brawler and roll her up, please. Since it's become clear that you are the only dev who isnt slathered with hatred or nerf complexes AND actually communicates with the community, we could really use you in our corner! I realize that youre responsible for crafting related content, but they apparently need to expand your power! Oh, and give her more money SOE! Everything I hear about Domino is nothing but praise. I even heard that at fanfaire, her booth was more crowded than all other dev booths combined. Come on brawlers, lets get her! __________________ 80 Barbarian Necromancer \| 139 AA \| 380 Tinkerer of Antonia Bayle 80 Fae Warlock \| 135 AA \| 400 Tinkerer of Antonia Bayle 80 Teir'Dal Bruiser \| 132 AA \| 76 Carpenter \| 350 Tinkerer of Antonia Bayle 80 Arasai Mystic \| 132 AA \| 370 Tinkerer of Antonia Bayle 71 Barbarian Guardian \| 108 AA \| 350 Muter of Antonia Bayle 70 Teir'Dal Fury \| 81 AA \| 80 Sage \| 400 Transmuter of Antonia Bayle 61 Sarnak Ranger \| 75 AA of Antonia Bayle Betrayals: Bruiser (2) \| Fury (1) \| Warlock (2) \| Mystic (1) \| Guardian (1) \| Ranger (1) \| Others (3)

12-11-2007, 02:26 PM	#116
Supp General Join Date: Feb 2005 Posts: 687	clizzy2000 wrote: Rhyls wrote: Sheesh... My void will be filled with far less nerf bat frustration by CoD4 and Assassins Creed. I agree. I put a bunch of games on hold to come back and play this. It's not like I'm going to be bored and come running back if you do this. I have Bioshock, Half Life Ep2, COD4, crysis, oblivion, Protal, Mario Galaxies all waiting to be played or only half way played. You aren't the only thing out there. My account is canceled, and I'm not signing back up if this goes through. I'm right there with you Clizzy. I'm going to raid a few months if only to show some respect for my guildies and verify my thoughts, but I'm all but decided at this point that my two 3 year old accounts are getting deactivated and not getting reactivated until the next expansion, and that's only IF they reinstate the content that I enjoy. This brawler nerf and the AA switcher absurdity are only the icing on the cake for me. There is much missing from Kunark, much ignored. It's almost like they engineered it to make me personally quit. Final Fantasy 12, Heavenly Sword and Eve Online all sit half played just waiting for their opportunity. And this is to say nothing of Final Fantasy 13, GTA4 and Star Wars The Force Unleashed, all due out in the March timeframe. As you say, there are many nonNerfhappy games awaiting me. __________________ 80 Barbarian Necromancer \| 139 AA \| 380 Tinkerer of Antonia Bayle 80 Fae Warlock \| 135 AA \| 400 Tinkerer of Antonia Bayle 80 Teir'Dal Bruiser \| 132 AA \| 76 Carpenter \| 350 Tinkerer of Antonia Bayle 80 Arasai Mystic \| 132 AA \| 370 Tinkerer of Antonia Bayle 71 Barbarian Guardian \| 108 AA \| 350 Muter of Antonia Bayle 70 Teir'Dal Fury \| 81 AA \| 80 Sage \| 400 Transmuter of Antonia Bayle 61 Sarnak Ranger \| 75 AA of Antonia Bayle Betrayals: Bruiser (2) \| Fury (1) \| Warlock (2) \| Mystic (1) \| Guardian (1) \| Ranger (1) \| Others (3)

12-11-2007, 02:57 PM	#117
Novusod Loremaster Join Date: Mar 2006 Posts: 1,719	Supple wrote: I'm right there with you Clizzy. I'm going to raid a few months if only to show some respect for my guildies and verify my thoughts, but I'm all but decided at this point that my two 3 year old accounts are getting deactivated and not getting reactivated until the next expansion, and that's only IF they reinstate the content that I enjoy. This brawler nerf and the AA switcher absurdity are only the icing on the cake for me. There is much missing from Kunark, much ignored. It's almost like they engineered it to make me personally quit. Final Fantasy 12, Heavenly Sword and Eve Online all sit half played just waiting for their opportunity. And this is to say nothing of Final Fantasy 13, GTA4 and Star Wars The Force Unleashed, all due out in the March timeframe. As you say, there are many nonNerfhappy games awaiting me. What kind of limp wristed threat is that. If FD gets ruined in LU41 then I am gone and never coming back not even for EQ3 or any other product SoE puts out. RoK has been one disaster after another for my Bruiser. Where are the bruiser upgrades. Avoidance tanking has been broken since EoF came out and our dps has gone down to near irrelevance. Warriors get a sword that can auto attack for 4k and we get nothing but nerfs. One has to draw a line and know when to walk away. That time is now. __________________

12-11-2007, 03:01 PM	#118
Dyse Loremaster Join Date: Nov 2004 Location: South Dakota Posts: 78	If this goes through, and I hope it doesn't, it will prove one of 2 things. 1. Developers are not allowed to read these forums because they'll grow a conscience. 2. They don't speak english. (This must be true since the Anime character models and Mara) It's all left to English speaking PR people to sift through and not know how to report back that the playerbase doesn't like a change. The Live Update notes are translated with Google Language. Why they fight us, I'll never know. They always win in the end. No way to turn tide. You can holler Cancel all you want, but 1% of everyone who says that actually does. There's no way, even if this thread goes to 100 pages before the fiascle goes live, will they go back on something they said. Makes them look week and bendable. Makes them think, "If we bend on this issue, they'll think we'll bend on a future issue... to hell with the customer... keep on with the Live Update as planned". SoE is God, don't you know. You can Pray all you want to them, it's like praying for a winning lottery ticket... not gonna happen. It's in print 'Toggle' and it's gotta stay that way. So we just pay more to the Mender for a hastey click click click click. My time here is almost at an end. Will be this weekend when I get my 4th 80 (SOLO) and be totally bored with an expansion that cost double and too easy to play. __________________ 90 Troub - 81 Ranger - 86 Warden - 90 Necro - 80 Guardian - 80 Palidan - 82 Bruiser - 76 Assassin

12-11-2007, 04:13 PM	#119
Iari111 Loremaster Join Date: Jan 2005 Location: AZ Posts: 159	Do my eyes deceive me, or is there not a single dev post in this entire thread? How disappointing.I've been playing this game since Jan '05. My monk has been my main since February of that same year. Since then, she and I have endured all of the changes done to the class. Some changes have been good. Most have been bad. In the nearly three years I've played, I've been outright laughed at when I suggested to a group that I tank. At one time, monks' dps more than made up for the stigma against us as sub-par tanks. We have been relegated to the status of a solo class.Just the other night, I hit FD. It failed. I used my /stand macro, hit group FD. That failed too. /stand, FD again, and I lived. Barely. HP was in the red. After this change goes live, with the FD timer not refreshing until FD is canceled, I would have been dead. As others have said, FD is a class defining ability. And now this change will go live, which removes a vital part to the solo brawler's survivability. I agree with a poster on page 2 or 3 who stated that the devs know exactly what they are doing. This is not about the ease of canceling FD. This is about nerfing our ability to FD our way through a zone/dungeon. But what the devs seem to be forgetting/ignoring is that they are severely gimping a defining ability from a class that has been relegated, by all of their other nerfs to it, to soloing. There isn't a dev post here because they don't have the guts to admit the real reason for this change, nor the ability to tell convincing lies and platitudes.But hey devs, thanks so much for this upcoming change: "Cockatrice housepets now have additional interactions." I guess I won't leave the game after all. /rollseyes

12-11-2007, 04:48 PM	#120
Arathy General Join Date: Dec 2004 Posts: 171	Lunara@Butcherblock wrote: Do my eyes deceive me, or is there not a single dev post in this entire thread? How disappointing. Probably because they've got nothing but some weak excuse for this nerf. And if they are reading, then guess what guys. I've endured nerf after nerf on theis toon - the only toon I enjoy playing out of all 24 you all created for this game. If this goes live.. I'm out. I've had it. This is just sheer stupidity. Something that's worked fine for 4 years.. and all of a sudden it needs a change? Get bent. You want to fix something of ours? Start with our "superior" avoidance which is actually inferior in most cases.