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Zhern · 11-12-2007, 12:12 PM

I was in a discussion with my nephew this weekend about EQ2. I was explaining to him that in EQ1 certain races could only be certain classes. And the only reason we had this discussion was because of the Fae/Arashi. It is very unrealistic that a Fae could kill a Ogre, in one-on-one melee combat. The Ogre would just have to fall to kill a Fae/Halfling/Gnome. I am not saying that Fae couldn't kill one with magic,backstab,etc. Just not in one-on-one combat.

So I thought I would bring this on the forums.

I AM NOT SAYING CHANGE EVERQUEST.

But do you agree or disagree with certain Races being able to be certain classes?

Example:

Fae-Beserker

Troll-Wizard

Laoch69 · 11-12-2007, 12:17 PM

Sure, realistically its hard to picture a fae killing an ogre. Just like it is hard to picture my barbarian killing multiple giants at once.

/shrug, any race any class is just fine to me SMILEY

Femke · 11-12-2007, 12:18 PM

Maybe... maybe not... if that fae knows Kung Fu. Who knows? <- Just kidding.But if you want to have this kind of reality (whatever that means when talking about orges and trolls SMILEY

), then a lot would not be possible as we have it now....Femke.

TheSpin · 11-12-2007, 12:29 PM

Allowing every race to be any class was one of the big features that they said would be different in EQ2 vs. EQ1.

Races do have very different starting stats, but gear is the primary factor that determins how strong you are in EQ. If you look at it in that perspective the fae might be a lot stronger than he looks.

With the release of the new expansion they are adding some racial traits to make the races more in line with what you are talking about. Ogres are getting an extra attack with a stun and fae are getting a magical aoe attack or something like that. This way the race selection does matter, but you can still be effective at any class regardless of your race.

Walter_Quadkite · 11-12-2007, 12:33 PM

You lost me at unrealistic. How realistic is it for my guardian to run around with full plate armor, shield and sword with 6 huge bags full of more weapons, armor and other items? This is a fantasy rpg, look up the word fantasy

Effie · 11-12-2007, 12:38 PM

If real-life physics and rules applied to EQ2, then yes.. it would be impossible for a Fae to kill an Ogre.

phoenixshard · 11-12-2007, 12:42 PM

Have to agree with the other folks here. If its so hard to believe that a fae can kill an ogre, explain how the ogre can kill a giant in the realistic fantasy world you are talking about. Its all fantasy. SMILEY

Effie · 11-12-2007, 12:47 PM

Ogres and Fae don't exist in real life so they should be exempt from all those inconvenient constraints that come with living in a real (non fantasy) world.

Killerbee3000 · 11-12-2007, 12:51 PM

Walter_Quadkite wrote:

You lost me at unrealistic. How realistic is it for my guardian to run around with full plate armor, shield and sword with 6 huge bags full of more weapons, armor and other items? This is a fantasy rpg, look up the word fantasy

dont forget swimming around a continent with all that stuff on you just to increase your swimming skill

(yes, i've swom around anotnica many times to get swimming skill up)its a fantasy game guys... not everything has to be realistic...

Suelothvar · 11-12-2007, 02:27 PM

Zhern wrote:

I was in a discussion with my nephew this weekend about EQ2. I was explaining to him that in EQ1 certain races could only be certain classes. And the only reason we had this discussion was because of the Fae/Arashi. It is very unrealistic that a Fae could kill a Ogre, in one-on-one melee combat. The Ogre would just have to fall to kill a Fae/Halfling/Gnome. I am not saying that Fae couldn't kill one with magic,backstab,etc. Just not in one-on-one combat.
So I thought I would bring this on the forums.
I AM NOT SAYING CHANGE EVERQUEST.
But do you agree or disagree with certain Races being able to be certain classes?
Example:
Fae-Beserker
Troll-Wizard

Can see your point, but tbh, I can easily imagine a fay tearing an ogre apart in 1v1 combat.. eg: any martial arts film, tiny little monk vs huge thug, sure if the big guy lands a hit, the little guy is buggered, but the little guy is specialized in NOT geting hit.. While his hits don't land as hard as the huge guy, they do tend to hit faster and more often, result one very shoked huge guy laying on floor...Just like above, the Ogres are slow and so sure of thier strength they make mistakes and underestimate such a small enemy..The fay, has no such illusion, it knows to be hit by the ogre will be fatal, so it moves fast, precise and gives the fight its whole attention...Every race has it's warriors, they do the same thing but by different aproach (granted this isn't so hard to see ingame with 2 fighters just hiting same attacks SMILEY

)

Decad · 11-12-2007, 02:39 PM

Well, the new RoK racial traits should certainly make serious players make more educated decisions about what races go with certain classes. ie; it isn't going to be very smart at all to have a halfling SK, or barbarian wizard. That player will be missing out on some mild (at the least, some appear to be even more helpful) racial ability "buffs".

Probably going to be a rather large flamefest towards the Devs once more people become aware of the new racial abilities, as there already is on other forum sites.

KBern · 11-12-2007, 02:44 PM

If it makes you feel better you can simply think of size as visual.

Who can explain the way their bone structure or muscle mass, or lack there of is configured at a physiological level.

I mean compare a chimpanzee to a 300lb man....Chimps are inordinately strong for their size.

Take the whole fantasy realm into consideration and it can explain many things in a "realistic" way.

TheSpin · 11-12-2007, 03:13 PM

Decadre@Najena wrote:

Well, the new RoK racial traits should certainly make serious players make more educated decisions about what races go with certain classes. ie; it isn't going to be very smart at all to have a halfling SK, or barbarian wizard. That player will be missing out on some mild (at the least, some appear to be even more helpful) racial ability "buffs".
Probably going to be a rather large flamefest towards the Devs once more people become aware of the new racial abilities, as there already is on other forum sites.

I think a lot of people are looking at these racial traits completely wrong. You say it's dumb to go with a halfling SK for instance...well the halfling SK has a free skills debuff which helps his tanking and a self ward on a 5 minute reuse that helps his tanking. Yes there are a few combinations that don't benefit as much, but it's harder to make a really poor decision than a pretty good decision with your race/class combo. Not to mention they are even now being tweaked a bit.

Zhern · 11-12-2007, 06:13 PM

Ok for the guys who said that this game is a fantasy game. That has got to be the lamest thing I have ever heard. Come up with something intelligent, or at least something believable.

With the same logic, then you could create anything to kill anything. In the next expansion the Fae will be driving M1A2s, with A-10 close air support.

All fantasy worlds have some rules. If you ever played D&D, you would see a ton of books on the subject.

Now in the Lord of the Rings (The grandfather of FANTASY). When Gandalf, Frodo and the gang were in the Mines of Mordia. The Orcs came pouring in with the Troll. Did Frodo jump up and say, " Hey you guys get behind me and see what a Halfling He-Man can do! "

Now what did Frodo do, he ran. Only after the troll drilled him did Sam and the other hobbit, jump on the trolls back. They didn't meet him head on.

Also by reading my first post, I could/should have said. Would you rather have the same Race to classes as EQ1. But like I said before, I am not saying this to get EQ2 changed like EQ1 or changed at all. Just for conversation.

TheSpin · 11-12-2007, 06:35 PM

Zhern wrote:

Ok for the guys who said that this game is a fantasy game. That has got to be the lamest thing I have ever heard. Come up with something intelligent, or at least something believable.
With the same logic, then you could create anything to kill anything. In the next expansion the Fae will be driving M1A2s, with A-10 close air support.
All fantasy worlds have some rules. If you ever played D&D, you would see a ton of books on the subject.
Now in the Lord of the Rings (The grandfather of FANTASY). When Gandalf, Frodo and the gang were in the Mines of Mordia. The Orcs came pouring in with the Troll. Did Frodo jump up and say, " Hey you guys get behind me and see what a Halfling He-Man can do! "
Now what did Frodo do, he ran. Only after the troll drilled him did Sam and the other hobbit, jump on the trolls back. They didn't meet him head on.
Also by reading my first post, I could/should have said. Would you rather have the same Race to classes as EQ1. But like I said before, I am not saying this to get EQ2 changed like EQ1 or changed at all. Just for conversation.

I think it deserves mentioning that the halflings in LOTR had no previous combat experience whatsoever. The dwarf was short and he certainly held his own in a fight.

I can definately see you're point, but I think the new racial traditions will be enough to make one race stand out over another in certain ways.

Zhern · 11-12-2007, 06:51 PM

Oh I have been in Beta and love the new AA screen.

But like I said earlier, my stance on this is not to change EQ2. This is not what its about.

Maybe more of a research for myself in the attitudes of MMO players in EQ2. (LOL)

But I was really curious to see how many people agreed that it should be that way or not.

As for me I don't agree with it. I won't cry about it, but don't agree.

And I definitely believe that its unfair in PvP.

Big Guy, big target, little guy little target, but both hit the same, BLAH.

Zarafein · 11-12-2007, 07:06 PM

Imo a smaller race needs much more experience or better equipment to (melee)fight a race like Ogre. In the roleyplaying game it's solved with clear advantages for ogres but they earn -25% experience(pretty huge peanlity)but p&p game and mmorpg is a completyl different story and this wouldn't work, but i keep this in mind while playing.

LaurnaRose Fauldorn · 11-12-2007, 07:21 PM

Have to say, I agree with the majority of responses. I see nothing wrong with being free to choose race/class w/o restriction. A prime example, dwarf vs. ogre ... ogre is bigger, but dwarf is smarter and built for fighting. Who is to say that that tiny little arasai didnt come from a long line of arasai fighters who has the smarts and skill to take on big dumb ogres? Unfortunately, there is no way for us to customize our body mass in the game so you cannot see the "real" size of the arasai fighter.

What does concern me is the fact that a lot of the player base currently has characters that are over 3 years old and when the changes to race traits goes into effect, we are forced to stick with races that may possibly the worse ones for our profession, where when we choose those races the traits had no real bearing on our profession choice. There are a lot of us who probably would not change our race, but the fact that now, because they allowed us no limit or restrictions on race/class combo, the veteran players are being punished because they will not take the time to form a program (however dificult) to allow us to reselect the race for our already existing characters who will be effected by this change.

Femke · 11-12-2007, 07:33 PM

Zhern wrote:

Ok for the guys who said that this game is a fantasy game. That has got to be the lamest thing I have ever heard. Come up with something intelligent, or at least something believable.

*Puts on the Devils Advocate hat* You want to say it is not a fantasy game????? Hmmm.... believable.... *nodnods* Femke.

Zhern · 11-12-2007, 07:33 PM

Lhangion@Innovation wrote:

Imo a smaller race needs much more experience or better equipment to (melee)fight a race like Ogre. In the roleyplaying game it's solved with clear advantages for ogres but they earn -25% experience(pretty huge peanlity)but p&p game and mmorpg is a completyl different story and this wouldn't work, but i keep this in mind while playing.

I agree.

Zhern · 11-12-2007, 07:35 PM

Femke wrote:

Zhern wrote:
Ok for the guys who said that this game is a fantasy game. That has got to be the lamest thing I have ever heard. Come up with something intelligent, or at least something believable.
*Puts on the Devils Advocate hat*You want to say it is not a fantasy game?????Hmmm.... believable.... *nodnods*Femke.

Not what I meant, but touché.

What I meant was don't use that as an excuse. Of course it's a fantasy game. Isn't it ?

LOL

Femke · 11-12-2007, 07:39 PM

Zhern wrote:

What I meant was don't use that as an excuse. Of course it's a fantasy game. Isn't it ?
LOL

Haha.... of course it is. I mean, I cannot remember the last time I had a decent conversation with a troll in Real Life (ohhh... the contradictions in that line ^^ ))Femke.

Zhern · 11-12-2007, 07:39 PM

Anobabylon@Befallen wrote:

Have to say, I agree with the majority of responses. I see nothing wrong with being free to choose race/class w/o restriction. A prime example, dwarf vs. ogre ... ogre is bigger, but dwarf is smarter and built for fighting. Who is to say that that tiny little arasai didnt come from a long line of arasai fighters who has the smarts and skill to take on big dumb ogres? Unfortunately, there is no way for us to customize our body mass in the game so you cannot see the "real" size of the arasai fighter.
What does concern me is the fact that a lot of the player base currently has characters that are over 3 years old and when the changes to race traits goes into effect, we are forced to stick with races that may possibly the worse ones for our profession, where when we choose those races the traits had no real bearing on our profession choice. There are a lot of us who probably would not change our race, but the fact that now, because they allowed us no limit or restrictions on race/class combo, the veteran players are being punished because they will not take the time to form a program (however dificult) to allow us to reselect the race for our already existing characters who will be effected by this change.

I do agree with you since I am one of those players. They should allow either a race or class respect. And I read another post on the expansion forums. And I think my post was wrong timed since there are a lot of unhappy people with the new Racial Trait changes. I see the benefits to it for the long haul. And that is what a lot of people are missing. SOE is trying to get more people. And in most MMOs, not all races can be every class like here. Wow is just another case.

Zhern · 11-12-2007, 07:44 PM

Femke wrote:

Zhern wrote:
What I meant was don't use that as an excuse. Of course it's a fantasy game. Isn't it ?
LOL
Haha.... of course it is. I mean, I cannot remember the last time I had a decent conversation with a troll in Real Life (ohhh... the contradictions in that line ^^ ))Femke.

Can a troll be the OP and the same time?

LOL, well thank you anyway.

I didn't mean for my post to be taken the WRONG way. But it was just for argument.

My nephew has a Arashi Warlock and he loves him. But I came in and stated what I said before.

Leatherneck · 11-12-2007, 07:44 PM

Judge me by my size do you? And well you should not. For my ally is the Force, and a powerful ally it is. Life creates it, makes it grow. Its energy surrounds us and binds us. Luminous beings are we, not this crude matter. You must feel the Force around you, between you, me, the rock, the tree, Yes, even between the land and the ship

It's not an excuse. There are various "degrees" of fantasy. In High Fantasy (Belgariad, Mallorean, Greek Mythology, Everquest II) it's more fantastic, less realistic. In Low Fantasy (Thieves' World) it's the opposite. Within the confines of EQ2, it's quite consistant. Brownies, for example, are also small yet relatively powerful.

And before going off because it's a Star Wars refrence, Star Wars is often categorized as Science Fantasy, a subset of Science Fiction.

Zhern · 11-12-2007, 07:50 PM

Leatherneck wrote:

Judge me by my size do you? And well you should not. For my ally is the Force, and a powerful ally it is. Life creates it, makes it grow. Its energy surrounds us and binds us. Luminous beings are we, not this crude matter. You must feel the Force around you, between you, me, the rock, the tree, Yes, even between the land and the ship
It's not an excuse. There are various "degrees" of fantasy. In High Fantasy (Belgariad, Mallorean, Greek Mythology, Everquest II) it's more fantastic, less realistic. In Low Fantasy (Thieves' World) it's the opposite. Within the confines of EQ2, it's quite consistant. Brownies, for example, are also small yet relatively powerful.
And before going off because it's a Star Wars refrence, Star Wars is often categorized as Science Fantasy, a subset of Science Fiction.

I agree with what you and Yoda are saying. But coming from the EQ1 world when EQ2 was released. I might have biased toward the OLD WAYS of the Force.

But the Brownies in my opinion weren't that powerful. I used to wipe them out in LF, a lot. Of course when I was a lot more powerful too, lol.

Leatherneck · 11-12-2007, 07:59 PM

Were you level 1 when you wiped them out in LF?

Zmobie · 11-12-2007, 08:32 PM

I happen to play one of the class/race combos the OP called out as being somewhat strange; a Troll Wizard.It's one of the things I love about EQ2, that I can play combos that are a bit different. In other MMOs, ones in which race played a huge factor, you ended up with cookie-cutter toons everywhere. If the Ogre was the be-all-end-all main tank... then all you saw was Ogre tanks. If the High Elves made the best Wizard... then you only saw High Elf wizards. Boring.I used to play a Troll Berserker, on a RP server. He was played as the standard troll, illiterate, big and dumb. When I rolled the Troll Wizard, he started the same way, until he started finding good gear with +INT. Now, he's very, very smart. Amazing what some magic clothes can do for ya.I'll be very, very dissapointed if after years of playing the game, they change it so that race makes a huge difference. If mt Troll Wizard wakes up one morning to find out he's relatively useless compared to an identically geared High Elf... I'll be extremely dissapointed.--Tusk

VladisSar · 11-12-2007, 08:58 PM

the only reason they did all races-all classes is to get away with pvp team balance nightmare that specific side will have less or more specific class types allowance due to racial distribution.

but personaly I would prefer a layout where class selection to a race is heavily bound by phisical characteristics and lore (erudites for exmaple looked down on phisical labor hence they woudl never consider profession of a warrior etc)

Lortet · 11-12-2007, 09:06 PM

When I want realism I can go to work.

When I want to relax and get away from it all, EQ2 is one of those outlets ie it is FUN - like a massive ogre scout sneaking around to backstab something, or a fae berserker swimming in plate armour, anyone using bows underwater etc.

Moves to make stereotypic race / class combinations would be a negative development. Have you noticed the number of threads concerning "what is the rarest race class combination?" - clearly a lot want to be different, not locked into min/max situations due to large racial discrepancies.

As an aside - if size/mass was to make a difference for eg tanking - would we also then ask for consideration to be made for fighting in confined spaces like stormhold, where an ogre often can't even stand up? Where would it end?

11-12-2007, 12:12 PM	#1
Zhern Loremaster Join Date: Nov 2004 Posts: 167	I was in a discussion with my nephew this weekend about EQ2. I was explaining to him that in EQ1 certain races could only be certain classes. And the only reason we had this discussion was because of the Fae/Arashi. It is very unrealistic that a Fae could kill a Ogre, in one-on-one melee combat. The Ogre would just have to fall to kill a Fae/Halfling/Gnome. I am not saying that Fae couldn't kill one with magic,backstab,etc. Just not in one-on-one combat. So I thought I would bring this on the forums. I AM NOT SAYING CHANGE EVERQUEST. But do you agree or disagree with certain Races being able to be certain classes? Example: Fae-Beserker Troll-Wizard __________________ If it was that easy, everyone would do it.

11-12-2007, 12:17 PM	#2
Laoch69 Loremaster Join Date: Nov 2004 Location: Vancouver, BC Posts: 189	Sure, realistically its hard to picture a fae killing an ogre. Just like it is hard to picture my barbarian killing multiple giants at once. /shrug, any race any class is just fine to me __________________

11-12-2007, 12:18 PM	#3
Femke Loremaster Join Date: Jan 2005 Location: The Netherlands Posts: 480	Maybe... maybe not... if that fae knows Kung Fu. Who knows? <- Just kidding.But if you want to have this kind of reality (whatever that means when talking about orges and trolls ), then a lot would not be possible as we have it now....Femke.

11-12-2007, 12:33 PM	#5
Walter_Quadkite Loremaster Join Date: Feb 2005 Location: Missouri Posts: 35	You lost me at unrealistic. How realistic is it for my guardian to run around with full plate armor, shield and sword with 6 huge bags full of more weapons, armor and other items? This is a fantasy rpg, look up the word fantasy __________________

11-12-2007, 12:51 PM	#9
Killerbee3000 Loremaster Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: right behind you Posts: 1,802	Walter_Quadkite wrote: You lost me at unrealistic. How realistic is it for my guardian to run around with full plate armor, shield and sword with 6 huge bags full of more weapons, armor and other items? This is a fantasy rpg, look up the word fantasy dont forget swimming around a continent with all that stuff on you just to increase your swimming skill (yes, i've swom around anotnica many times to get swimming skill up)its a fantasy game guys... not everything has to be realistic... __________________ Whiskers without loosing Eyes in '08!

11-12-2007, 12:29 PM	#4
TheSpin Loremaster Join Date: Dec 2004 Posts: 2,587	Allowing every race to be any class was one of the big features that they said would be different in EQ2 vs. EQ1. Races do have very different starting stats, but gear is the primary factor that determins how strong you are in EQ. If you look at it in that perspective the fae might be a lot stronger than he looks. With the release of the new expansion they are adding some racial traits to make the races more in line with what you are talking about. Ogres are getting an extra attack with a stun and fae are getting a magical aoe attack or something like that. This way the race selection does matter, but you can still be effective at any class regardless of your race.

11-12-2007, 12:38 PM	#6
Effie Loremaster Join Date: Nov 2004 Posts: 933	If real-life physics and rules applied to EQ2, then yes.. it would be impossible for a Fae to kill an Ogre.

11-12-2007, 12:42 PM	#7
phoenixshard Loremaster Join Date: Apr 2006 Location: Raleigh, NC Posts: 403	Have to agree with the other folks here. If its so hard to believe that a fae can kill an ogre, explain how the ogre can kill a giant in the realistic fantasy world you are talking about. Its all fantasy.

11-12-2007, 12:47 PM	#8
Effie Loremaster Join Date: Nov 2004 Posts: 933	Ogres and Fae don't exist in real life so they should be exempt from all those inconvenient constraints that come with living in a real (non fantasy) world.

11-12-2007, 02:27 PM	#10
Suelothvar Server: Antonia Bayle Lorekeeper Join Date: Oct 2007 Posts: 50	Zhern wrote: I was in a discussion with my nephew this weekend about EQ2. I was explaining to him that in EQ1 certain races could only be certain classes. And the only reason we had this discussion was because of the Fae/Arashi. It is very unrealistic that a Fae could kill a Ogre, in one-on-one melee combat. The Ogre would just have to fall to kill a Fae/Halfling/Gnome. I am not saying that Fae couldn't kill one with magic,backstab,etc. Just not in one-on-one combat. So I thought I would bring this on the forums. I AM NOT SAYING CHANGE EVERQUEST. But do you agree or disagree with certain Races being able to be certain classes? Example: Fae-Beserker Troll-Wizard Can see your point, but tbh, I can easily imagine a fay tearing an ogre apart in 1v1 combat.. eg: any martial arts film, tiny little monk vs huge thug, sure if the big guy lands a hit, the little guy is buggered, but the little guy is specialized in NOT geting hit.. While his hits don't land as hard as the huge guy, they do tend to hit faster and more often, result one very shoked huge guy laying on floor...Just like above, the Ogres are slow and so sure of thier strength they make mistakes and underestimate such a small enemy..The fay, has no such illusion, it knows to be hit by the ogre will be fatal, so it moves fast, precise and gives the fight its whole attention...Every race has it's warriors, they do the same thing but by different aproach (granted this isn't so hard to see ingame with 2 fighters just hiting same attacks ) __________________ "umm I ment that to happen onest" Oopsy Daisy Accident prone Coercer...

11-12-2007, 02:39 PM	#11
Decad General Join Date: Nov 2004 Posts: 136	Well, the new RoK racial traits should certainly make serious players make more educated decisions about what races go with certain classes. ie; it isn't going to be very smart at all to have a halfling SK, or barbarian wizard. That player will be missing out on some mild (at the least, some appear to be even more helpful) racial ability "buffs". Probably going to be a rather large flamefest towards the Devs once more people become aware of the new racial abilities, as there already is on other forum sites. __________________

11-12-2007, 02:44 PM	#12
KBern Loremaster Join Date: Nov 2004 Posts: 2,372	If it makes you feel better you can simply think of size as visual. Who can explain the way their bone structure or muscle mass, or lack there of is configured at a physiological level. I mean compare a chimpanzee to a 300lb man....Chimps are inordinately strong for their size. Take the whole fantasy realm into consideration and it can explain many things in a "realistic" way. __________________

11-12-2007, 03:13 PM	#13
TheSpin Loremaster Join Date: Dec 2004 Posts: 2,587	Decadre@Najena wrote: Well, the new RoK racial traits should certainly make serious players make more educated decisions about what races go with certain classes. ie; it isn't going to be very smart at all to have a halfling SK, or barbarian wizard. That player will be missing out on some mild (at the least, some appear to be even more helpful) racial ability "buffs". Probably going to be a rather large flamefest towards the Devs once more people become aware of the new racial abilities, as there already is on other forum sites. I think a lot of people are looking at these racial traits completely wrong. You say it's dumb to go with a halfling SK for instance...well the halfling SK has a free skills debuff which helps his tanking and a self ward on a 5 minute reuse that helps his tanking. Yes there are a few combinations that don't benefit as much, but it's harder to make a really poor decision than a pretty good decision with your race/class combo. Not to mention they are even now being tweaked a bit.

11-12-2007, 06:13 PM	#14
Zhern Loremaster Join Date: Nov 2004 Posts: 167	Ok for the guys who said that this game is a fantasy game. That has got to be the lamest thing I have ever heard. Come up with something intelligent, or at least something believable. With the same logic, then you could create anything to kill anything. In the next expansion the Fae will be driving M1A2s, with A-10 close air support. All fantasy worlds have some rules. If you ever played D&D, you would see a ton of books on the subject. Now in the Lord of the Rings (The grandfather of FANTASY). When Gandalf, Frodo and the gang were in the Mines of Mordia. The Orcs came pouring in with the Troll. Did Frodo jump up and say, " Hey you guys get behind me and see what a Halfling He-Man can do! " Now what did Frodo do, he ran. Only after the troll drilled him did Sam and the other hobbit, jump on the trolls back. They didn't meet him head on. Also by reading my first post, I could/should have said. Would you rather have the same Race to classes as EQ1. But like I said before, I am not saying this to get EQ2 changed like EQ1 or changed at all. Just for conversation. __________________ If it was that easy, everyone would do it.

11-12-2007, 06:35 PM	#15
TheSpin Loremaster Join Date: Dec 2004 Posts: 2,587	Zhern wrote: Ok for the guys who said that this game is a fantasy game. That has got to be the lamest thing I have ever heard. Come up with something intelligent, or at least something believable. With the same logic, then you could create anything to kill anything. In the next expansion the Fae will be driving M1A2s, with A-10 close air support. All fantasy worlds have some rules. If you ever played D&D, you would see a ton of books on the subject. Now in the Lord of the Rings (The grandfather of FANTASY). When Gandalf, Frodo and the gang were in the Mines of Mordia. The Orcs came pouring in with the Troll. Did Frodo jump up and say, " Hey you guys get behind me and see what a Halfling He-Man can do! " Now what did Frodo do, he ran. Only after the troll drilled him did Sam and the other hobbit, jump on the trolls back. They didn't meet him head on. Also by reading my first post, I could/should have said. Would you rather have the same Race to classes as EQ1. But like I said before, I am not saying this to get EQ2 changed like EQ1 or changed at all. Just for conversation. I think it deserves mentioning that the halflings in LOTR had no previous combat experience whatsoever. The dwarf was short and he certainly held his own in a fight. I can definately see you're point, but I think the new racial traditions will be enough to make one race stand out over another in certain ways.

11-12-2007, 06:51 PM	#16
Zhern Loremaster Join Date: Nov 2004 Posts: 167	Oh I have been in Beta and love the new AA screen. But like I said earlier, my stance on this is not to change EQ2. This is not what its about. Maybe more of a research for myself in the attitudes of MMO players in EQ2. (LOL) But I was really curious to see how many people agreed that it should be that way or not. As for me I don't agree with it. I won't cry about it, but don't agree. And I definitely believe that its unfair in PvP. Big Guy, big target, little guy little target, but both hit the same, BLAH. __________________ If it was that easy, everyone would do it.

11-12-2007, 07:06 PM	#17
Zarafein Loremaster Join Date: Dec 2005 Posts: 471	Imo a smaller race needs much more experience or better equipment to (melee)fight a race like Ogre. In the roleyplaying game it's solved with clear advantages for ogres but they earn -25% experience(pretty huge peanlity)but p&p game and mmorpg is a completyl different story and this wouldn't work, but i keep this in mind while playing.

11-12-2007, 07:21 PM	#18
LaurnaRose Fauldorn Loremaster Join Date: Mar 2005 Posts: 759	Have to say, I agree with the majority of responses. I see nothing wrong with being free to choose race/class w/o restriction. A prime example, dwarf vs. ogre ... ogre is bigger, but dwarf is smarter and built for fighting. Who is to say that that tiny little arasai didnt come from a long line of arasai fighters who has the smarts and skill to take on big dumb ogres? Unfortunately, there is no way for us to customize our body mass in the game so you cannot see the "real" size of the arasai fighter. What does concern me is the fact that a lot of the player base currently has characters that are over 3 years old and when the changes to race traits goes into effect, we are forced to stick with races that may possibly the worse ones for our profession, where when we choose those races the traits had no real bearing on our profession choice. There are a lot of us who probably would not change our race, but the fact that now, because they allowed us no limit or restrictions on race/class combo, the veteran players are being punished because they will not take the time to form a program (however dificult) to allow us to reselect the race for our already existing characters who will be effected by this change. __________________ Ahria ~ Templar/Provisioner (90) ~~~ Anobabylon ~ Warden (90) /Alchemist Anobelle ~ Coercer/Jeweler ~~~ Beah ~ Warlock/Sage Dharknehz ~ Assasin (90) /Weaponsmith ~~~ Jeffica ~ Bruiser/Tailor Laurn ~ Defiler (90) /Carpenter (90) ~~~ Psahng ~ Troubador/Woodworker Vacri ~ ShadowKnight (90) /Armorer ~~~ Xhexania ~ Necromancer/Unskilled FAYDARK --> BEFALLEN --> OASIS

11-12-2007, 07:33 PM	#19
Femke Loremaster Join Date: Jan 2005 Location: The Netherlands Posts: 480	Zhern wrote: Ok for the guys who said that this game is a fantasy game. That has got to be the lamest thing I have ever heard. Come up with something intelligent, or at least something believable. Puts on the Devils Advocate hat You want to say it is not a fantasy game????? Hmmm.... believable.... nodnods Femke.

11-12-2007, 07:33 PM	#20
Zhern Loremaster Join Date: Nov 2004 Posts: 167	Lhangion@Innovation wrote: Imo a smaller race needs much more experience or better equipment to (melee)fight a race like Ogre. In the roleyplaying game it's solved with clear advantages for ogres but they earn -25% experience(pretty huge peanlity)but p&p game and mmorpg is a completyl different story and this wouldn't work, but i keep this in mind while playing. I agree. __________________ If it was that easy, everyone would do it.

11-12-2007, 07:35 PM	#21
Zhern Loremaster Join Date: Nov 2004 Posts: 167	Femke wrote: Zhern wrote: Ok for the guys who said that this game is a fantasy game. That has got to be the lamest thing I have ever heard. Come up with something intelligent, or at least something believable. Puts on the Devils Advocate hatYou want to say it is not a fantasy game?????Hmmm.... believable.... nodnodsFemke. Not what I meant, but touché. What I meant was don't use that as an excuse. Of course it's a fantasy game. Isn't it ? LOL __________________ If it was that easy, everyone would do it.

11-12-2007, 07:39 PM	#22
Femke Loremaster Join Date: Jan 2005 Location: The Netherlands Posts: 480	Zhern wrote: What I meant was don't use that as an excuse. Of course it's a fantasy game. Isn't it ? LOL Haha.... of course it is. I mean, I cannot remember the last time I had a decent conversation with a troll in Real Life (ohhh... the contradictions in that line ^^ ))Femke.

11-12-2007, 07:39 PM	#23
Zhern Loremaster Join Date: Nov 2004 Posts: 167	Anobabylon@Befallen wrote: Have to say, I agree with the majority of responses. I see nothing wrong with being free to choose race/class w/o restriction. A prime example, dwarf vs. ogre ... ogre is bigger, but dwarf is smarter and built for fighting. Who is to say that that tiny little arasai didnt come from a long line of arasai fighters who has the smarts and skill to take on big dumb ogres? Unfortunately, there is no way for us to customize our body mass in the game so you cannot see the "real" size of the arasai fighter. What does concern me is the fact that a lot of the player base currently has characters that are over 3 years old and when the changes to race traits goes into effect, we are forced to stick with races that may possibly the worse ones for our profession, where when we choose those races the traits had no real bearing on our profession choice. There are a lot of us who probably would not change our race, but the fact that now, because they allowed us no limit or restrictions on race/class combo, the veteran players are being punished because they will not take the time to form a program (however dificult) to allow us to reselect the race for our already existing characters who will be effected by this change. I do agree with you since I am one of those players. They should allow either a race or class respect. And I read another post on the expansion forums. And I think my post was wrong timed since there are a lot of unhappy people with the new Racial Trait changes. I see the benefits to it for the long haul. And that is what a lot of people are missing. SOE is trying to get more people. And in most MMOs, not all races can be every class like here. Wow is just another case. __________________ If it was that easy, everyone would do it.

11-12-2007, 07:44 PM	#24
Zhern Loremaster Join Date: Nov 2004 Posts: 167	Femke wrote: Zhern wrote: What I meant was don't use that as an excuse. Of course it's a fantasy game. Isn't it ? LOL Haha.... of course it is. I mean, I cannot remember the last time I had a decent conversation with a troll in Real Life (ohhh... the contradictions in that line ^^ ))Femke. Can a troll be the OP and the same time? LOL, well thank you anyway. I didn't mean for my post to be taken the WRONG way. But it was just for argument. My nephew has a Arashi Warlock and he loves him. But I came in and stated what I said before. __________________ If it was that easy, everyone would do it.

11-12-2007, 07:44 PM	#25
Leatherneck Loremaster Join Date: Nov 2004 Posts: 697	Judge me by my size do you? And well you should not. For my ally is the Force, and a powerful ally it is. Life creates it, makes it grow. Its energy surrounds us and binds us. Luminous beings are we, not this crude matter. You must feel the Force around you, between you, me, the rock, the tree, Yes, even between the land and the ship It's not an excuse. There are various "degrees" of fantasy. In High Fantasy (Belgariad, Mallorean, Greek Mythology, Everquest II) it's more fantastic, less realistic. In Low Fantasy (Thieves' World) it's the opposite. Within the confines of EQ2, it's quite consistant. Brownies, for example, are also small yet relatively powerful. And before going off because it's a Star Wars refrence, Star Wars is often categorized as Science Fantasy, a subset of Science Fiction.

11-12-2007, 07:50 PM	#26
Zhern Loremaster Join Date: Nov 2004 Posts: 167	Leatherneck wrote: Judge me by my size do you? And well you should not. For my ally is the Force, and a powerful ally it is. Life creates it, makes it grow. Its energy surrounds us and binds us. Luminous beings are we, not this crude matter. You must feel the Force around you, between you, me, the rock, the tree, Yes, even between the land and the ship It's not an excuse. There are various "degrees" of fantasy. In High Fantasy (Belgariad, Mallorean, Greek Mythology, Everquest II) it's more fantastic, less realistic. In Low Fantasy (Thieves' World) it's the opposite. Within the confines of EQ2, it's quite consistant. Brownies, for example, are also small yet relatively powerful. And before going off because it's a Star Wars refrence, Star Wars is often categorized as Science Fantasy, a subset of Science Fiction. I agree with what you and Yoda are saying. But coming from the EQ1 world when EQ2 was released. I might have biased toward the OLD WAYS of the Force. But the Brownies in my opinion weren't that powerful. I used to wipe them out in LF, a lot. Of course when I was a lot more powerful too, lol. __________________ If it was that easy, everyone would do it.

11-12-2007, 07:59 PM	#27
Leatherneck Loremaster Join Date: Nov 2004 Posts: 697	Were you level 1 when you wiped them out in LF?

11-12-2007, 08:32 PM	#28
Zmobie Loremaster Join Date: Nov 2004 Location: Seattle, WA Posts: 271	I happen to play one of the class/race combos the OP called out as being somewhat strange; a Troll Wizard.It's one of the things I love about EQ2, that I can play combos that are a bit different. In other MMOs, ones in which race played a huge factor, you ended up with cookie-cutter toons everywhere. If the Ogre was the be-all-end-all main tank... then all you saw was Ogre tanks. If the High Elves made the best Wizard... then you only saw High Elf wizards. Boring.I used to play a Troll Berserker, on a RP server. He was played as the standard troll, illiterate, big and dumb. When I rolled the Troll Wizard, he started the same way, until he started finding good gear with +INT. Now, he's very, very smart. Amazing what some magic clothes can do for ya.I'll be very, very dissapointed if after years of playing the game, they change it so that race makes a huge difference. If mt Troll Wizard wakes up one morning to find out he's relatively useless compared to an identically geared High Elf... I'll be extremely dissapointed.--Tusk

11-12-2007, 08:58 PM	#29
VladisSar Loremaster Join Date: Nov 2005 Posts: 111	the only reason they did all races-all classes is to get away with pvp team balance nightmare that specific side will have less or more specific class types allowance due to racial distribution. but personaly I would prefer a layout where class selection to a race is heavily bound by phisical characteristics and lore (erudites for exmaple looked down on phisical labor hence they woudl never consider profession of a warrior etc) __________________ List of Current EQ2 problems: 1) Save TS: bring back the sub-combines! 2) WE NEED MORE CHAR. SLOTS!!! Join the char rerol option movement!

11-12-2007, 09:06 PM	#30
Lortet Loremaster Join Date: Feb 2006 Posts: 885	When I want realism I can go to work. When I want to relax and get away from it all, EQ2 is one of those outlets ie it is FUN - like a massive ogre scout sneaking around to backstab something, or a fae berserker swimming in plate armour, anyone using bows underwater etc. Moves to make stereotypic race / class combinations would be a negative development. Have you noticed the number of threads concerning "what is the rarest race class combination?" - clearly a lot want to be different, not locked into min/max situations due to large racial discrepancies. As an aside - if size/mass was to make a difference for eg tanking - would we also then ask for consideration to be made for fighting in confined spaces like stormhold, where an ogre often can't even stand up? Where would it end?