Beta News

[TerabithianWhisperwi]

I'm not bashing anyone, but it is clear to see that sometimes the opinions and observations of others can be neglected around here.

I personally could care less what the guardians are now capable of. it gives them something to cheer about. yay them. while they are cheering for themselves, my zerker is killing more mobs. show me any guardian that can beat a zerker of equal level in a duel, and I'll show you a poorly-played zerker.

I personally wish people would stop whining about guardians in this forum, and instead focus on the things which make this class great. With some of the things seen in beta, this class is only getting better. I will humbly suggest that the "knowledge" of the berzerker class as seen through the guides and through the posts on here seems to me to be off-base, and do not line up with my own gameplay experience. many of the strategies shown here are not ones that I personally use.

However, all that being said, there is clear and tangible evidence that the people who commonly post around here are not really open to new suggestions and/or observations, at least, much less so than on other class-forum boards. I'm not sure why? maybe it's all the aggression in the room...I mean, we ARE all warriors here....

[ZhouyuTheGreat]

Bohow@Antonia Bayle wrote:

Have either of you ever actually raided Kaberu or Zhouyu? You claim to, but don't seem to have much experience with it by the way you talk. I don't care if its 8 mins into a fight, if you run oop, your going to lose aggro soon. END OF STORY. I don't care if you can have a coercer help you out, etc etc, the fact remains that we should not be required to use a certain class/item or combo of the two as a crutch to use our T8 AT, its that freaking simple. Also, if you actually READ the spell, it says on termination, not when it expires, but on termination. So I am assuming (since I aint in beta to test, and its bugged there anyways) that even if you click it off, oh look, you just terminated it, hello 100% power drain (50% + 5 10% ticks = 100% for those that can't do math). And btw, who the heck are you to look at Skel, who has MT'd everything in the game including AoM and say he doesn't know what he's talking about when it comes to raiding? that actually kinda made me lol

Yes I am MT infact as a zerker.

What you don't understand is, you will NOT run out of power, I don't think you have much experiance main tanking as a zerker. As OT zerker there may be times you run out of power depending on group set ups, but in the main tank group I hardly ever have to worry about power.

What I was telling you is that most trash encounters with proper raid dps and raid set up end in 30-40 seconds. We can use as much as power as we like for the 32 seconds, ONLY upon termination is when we start to lose our power. Which then we can regen and cancel it out if it is a longer fight, but most fights end before the power issue even come to play a role in the fight.

I'm not sure how much experiance you have MTing as a zerker, but if you are main tank and having pwer issues, then you need to speak with the mt coercer, make sure you have all of your power regen items, and make sure you are running power regen HOs as much as possible, all of that adds up. If I ask my coercer to keep my power up, even if i spam all my CAs i still wont go below 85% power. Thats spamming everything .... and I sure as hell don't need to spam my CAs to hold aggro.

As far as Skel goes, he was making a comment about our guild, he plays on a pve server easy mode. We are part of a pvp server on a faction only guild. We get to use only part of the classes availible. Our acomplishments take alot more skill than the PvEers does. Like that fact or not, but its easy not to complain about winter's cold weather when you are sitting in a warm room right next to a fire place. Try playing the game from scratch on a pvp server and a faction only guild, then we will see how far you can get with your "skills".

I liek to add this, I have had fights where mistakes happen for one reason or another and my power had completeky ran out, and still there is enough power being channeled to the main tank that even when yo uare sittign at 0% you can still gain enough to keep your CAs/taunt/DPS going, you may just not see a FULL power bar lol. It really isn't an issue, this ability will become an issue if you are not MT, in which case you are only usign this ability until MT is back up to save a raid wipe. In which case 32 seconds is enough tiemn for the MT being back up, buffed and rdy to go again, after that it is ok if your power hits 0 and oyu have no one to channel you some power. Why ? Because you just saved a wipe.

[Oldlore]

Reading this thread you'd think I'd logged into Eq2flames instead of the sony boards.  Been a while since I've seen zerker vs. zerker like this. 

The problem here is that everyone's playing their class with different goals in mind.  Some are into duels, some pvp, high-end raiding, group heroic content, etc.  Obviously everyone's going to have a different take on the ability depending on how useful it may seem to them. 

Adrenaline ain't a big deal either way to me.  I'm more disappointed in the lack of any changes to our EoF tree, boring upgrades to most of our CAs...seems the class has been stuck in place since EoF came out.  Oh, I'm also disappointed that our berserk went up by only 3/3 or so I've read?  I bet if you were to parse the extra dps ya got from beserk in KoS and compare to what it gives you in Rok it'd be a significant drop.

 Obviously ROK is about alot more than just class changes and the new zones, raid mobs, etc, all look like alot of fun.

[Kaberu]

TerabithianWhisperwind wrote:

I'm not bashing anyone, but it is clear to see that sometimes the opinions and observations of others can be neglected around here.

I personally could care less what the guardians are now capable of. it gives them something to cheer about. yay them. while they are cheering for themselves, my zerker is killing more mobs. show me any guardian that can beat a zerker of equal level in a duel, and I'll show you a poorly-played zerker.

I personally wish people would stop whining about guardians in this forum, and instead focus on the things which make this class great. With some of the things seen in beta, this class is only getting better. I will humbly suggest that the "knowledge" of the berzerker class as seen through the guides and through the posts on here seems to me to be off-base, and do not line up with my own gameplay experience. many of the strategies shown here are not ones that I personally use.

However, all that being said, there is clear and tangible evidence that the people who commonly post around here are not really open to new suggestions and/or observations, at least, much less so than on other class-forum boards. I'm not sure why? maybe it's all the aggression in the room...I mean, we ARE all warriors here....

That's a good way to boil it down and it also brings up a good point...Both Guardians and Berserkers are Warriors... we really shouldn't be that far off in capabilities, but merely by approach. It's not like Shadowknights and Paladins where they have this whole "polar opposite" vibe going on. Warriors of all flavors are soldiers through and through. We both wade into battle with determination. It's just Berserkers are wild and uncouth about it and our Guardian brethren are calculated and precise.From a game mechanics perspective, I see no reason why Guardians shouldn't inch closer to our offense output while we take a page from their defensive playbook. Having a solid "Wowsers!"-quality defensive ability compliments our Open Wounds/Destruction offensive combo quite nicely. Having two anti-death abilities on top of that is just icing on the cake =)

[Wargurine]

ZhouyuTheGreat wrote:

Bohow@Antonia Bayle wrote:

Have either of you ever actually raided Kaberu or Zhouyu? You claim to, but don't seem to have much experience with it by the way you talk. I don't care if its 8 mins into a fight, if you run oop, your going to lose aggro soon. END OF STORY. I don't care if you can have a coercer help you out, etc etc, the fact remains that we should not be required to use a certain class/item or combo of the two as a crutch to use our T8 AT, its that freaking simple. Also, if you actually READ the spell, it says on termination, not when it expires, but on termination. So I am assuming (since I aint in beta to test, and its bugged there anyways) that even if you click it off, oh look, you just terminated it, hello 100% power drain (50% + 5 10% ticks = 100% for those that can't do math). And btw, who the heck are you to look at Skel, who has MT'd everything in the game including AoM and say he doesn't know what he's talking about when it comes to raiding? that actually kinda made me lol

Yes I am MT infact as a zerker.

What you don't understand is, you will NOT run out of power, I don't think you have much experiance main tanking as a zerker. As OT zerker there may be times you run out of power depending on group set ups, but in the main tank group I hardly ever have to worry about power.

What I was telling you is that most trash encounters with proper raid dps and raid set up end in 30-40 seconds. We can use as much as power as we like for the 32 seconds, ONLY upon termination is when we start to lose our power. Which then we can regen and cancel it out if it is a longer fight, but most fights end before the power issue even come to play a role in the fight.

I'm not sure how much experiance you have MTing as a zerker, but if you are main tank and having pwer issues, then you need to speak with the mt coercer, make sure you have all of your power regen items, and make sure you are running power regen HOs as much as possible, all of that adds up. If I ask my coercer to keep my power up, even if i spam all my CAs i still wont go below 85% power. Thats spamming everything .... and I sure as hell don't need to spam my CAs to hold aggro.

As far as Skel goes, he was making a comment about our guild, he plays on a pve server easy mode. We are part of a pvp server on a faction only guild. We get to use only part of the classes availible. Our acomplishments take alot more skill than the PvEers does. Like that fact or not, but its easy not to complain about winter's cold weather when you are sitting in a warm room right next to a fire place. Try playing the game from scratch on a pvp server and a faction only guild, then we will see how far you can get with your "skills".

I liek to add this, I have had fights where mistakes happen for one reason or another and my power had completeky ran out, and still there is enough power being channeled to the main tank that even when yo uare sittign at 0% you can still gain enough to keep your CAs/taunt/DPS going, you may just not see a FULL power bar lol. It really isn't an issue, this ability will become an issue if you are not MT, in which case you are only usign this ability until MT is back up to save a raid wipe. In which case 32 seconds is enough tiemn for the MT being back up, buffed and rdy to go again, after that it is ok if your power hits 0 and oyu have no one to channel you some power. Why ? Because you just saved a wipe.

And how far has your guild gotten? Have you ever tanked something for more than say, 3 mins? Ever done MMIS mayong? thats a 10 min fight, gl keeping much power going during a marathon fight like that. Howabout Rumbler? thats 15-20mins. Blow adrenaline to eat the AE's from the trisected split (I remember someone mentioning before that it would be a good time to use it there) and you are seriously [Removed for Content]'d for the next 20 mins. Once you hit rock bottom 0 power, getting back up at all can be a pita. I can't comment on Avatar's or other contested as I haven't done them, but I do believe they are even longer fights then that. You need all the regen you can get just to make it to the end of the fight, and thats without blowing all of your power in one go. Your also assuming that no one else in your grp might need some regen love. Think your healers are gonna make it for 20 mins without a little help from the coercer? I think not, so now your hoarding every drop of mana regen you can and your gonna be sucking towards the last of the fight, and this little useless ability won't make enough of a diff then (still trying to figure out how you figure we won't run oop using this ability, I mean, you even emphasised NOT, but if you actually read it its 50% +10 5% ticks = 50% + 50% = 100% gg)And who really cares about trash mobs btw? they are called TRASH for a reason. If your having to blow something like adrenaline on trash mobs, boy do you got some problems. And hellooooo, you won't be able to cancel the power drain off, so I don't care how freaking uber your regen is, for 30 seconds your gonna be totally oop. Unless you can somehow regen 6%+ for 30 straight seconds, you won't have any power, and that only gets you 1% power a tick, not even enough to do anything with. I'm not trying to turn this into a flame fest, or eq2flames, however, its extremely frustrating trying to talk to someone that refuses to listen. Its like saying the sky is blue and someone walking up, pointing at the only cloud in the sky, and saying that the sky is white because of the one cloud. They don't care if 99.99% of the sky is blue, since that ONE itty bitty cloud is there on the horizon, they sky MUST be classified as white...P.S stop using being on a pvp server as a crutch. you chose it, deal with it. stop trying to make us feel sorry for you because you chose to not have all the game options open to you. thats why the exile guilds are farther in progression than the faction ones, you dug your grave, so lay in it.

[Kaberu]

I think what Bohow is trying to say is, "The sky is falling, the sky is falling!!"We've been saying all along that Adrenaline is situational. People have been trying to illustrate how it can be used in a successful manner, not list the end all and be all of Adrenaline usage. Just because you can think of examples where it's not useful doesn't mean the ability is not. You remind me of that one guy who says the sky is white just because he can see a cloud in the sky and doesn't even care if 99.99% of the sky is blue. But because that ONE itty bitty cloud is there on the horizon, the sky MUST be classified as white...I mean seriously, who does that?It's not even live and I can already think of plenty of places in my own gaming experiences where it would have come in handy and saved a wipe or at least a huge mess. If you can't see it's usefulness, then try harder! No one is THAT short sighted.And just for the fun of it, here's the "Two Worlds" version of my post:Mayhap I think what Bohow forsooth is trying to say is, "Mayhap the sky is falling, Forsooth the sky is falling!!"Mayhap we've been saying all forsooth along that mayhap Adrenaline is situational. Forsooth, people mayhap been trying to illustrate forsooth it can be used, mayhap in a successful manner, mayhap not list the end all and mayhap be all of Adrenaline usage. Forsooth, just mayhap you can forsooth think of examples, mayhap where it's not useful doesn't mayhap mean the ability forsooth is not. Mayhap, you remind me forsooth of that one guy who mayhap says the sky forsooth is white mayhap because he can forsooth see a cloud mayhap in the sky and forsooth doesn't even care if mayhap 99.99% of the sky is blue. Forsooth, because that mayhap ONE itty bitty cloud is there forsooth on the horizon, mayhap the sky MUST forsooth be classified as white...Forsooth, I mean seriously, mayhap does that?Mayhap it's not forsooth even live and mayhap I can already think forsooth of plenty of places, mayhap in my own gaming experiences forsooth where it would have come in handy and mayahap saved a wipe forsooth or at least mayhap a huge mess. Forsooth, if you can't mayhap see it's usefulness, mayhap then try harder! Forsooth, no one is THAT short sighted.

[Wargurine]

Kaberu wrote:

I think what Bohow is trying to say is, "The sky is falling, the sky is falling!!"We've been saying all along that Adrenaline is situational. People have been trying to illustrate how it can be used in a successful manner, not list the end all and be all of Adrenaline usage. Just because you can think of examples where it's not useful doesn't mean the ability is not. You remind me of that one guy who says the sky is white just because he can see a cloud in the sky and doesn't even care if 99.99% of the sky is blue. But because that ONE itty bitty cloud is there on the horizon, the sky MUST be classified as white...I mean seriously, who does that?It's not even live and I can already think of plenty of places in my own gaming experiences where it would have come in handy and saved a wipe or at least a huge mess. If you can't see it's usefulness, then try harder! No one is THAT short sighted.And just for the fun of it, here's the "Two Worlds" version of my post:Mayhap I think what Bohow forsooth is trying to say is, "Mayhap the sky is falling, Forsooth the sky is falling!!"Mayhap we've been saying all forsooth along that mayhap Adrenaline is situational. Forsooth, people mayhap been trying to illustrate forsooth it can be used, mayhap in a successful manner, mayhap not list the end all and mayhap be all of Adrenaline usage. Forsooth, just mayhap you can forsooth think of examples, mayhap where it's not useful doesn't mayhap mean the ability forsooth is not. Mayhap, you remind me forsooth of that one guy who mayhap says the sky forsooth is white mayhap because he can forsooth see a cloud mayhap in the sky and forsooth doesn't even care if mayhap 99.99% of the sky is blue. Forsooth, because that mayhap ONE itty bitty cloud is there forsooth on the horizon, mayhap the sky MUST forsooth be classified as white...Forsooth, I mean seriously, mayhap does that?Mayhap it's not forsooth even live and mayhap I can already think forsooth of plenty of places, mayhap in my own gaming experiences forsooth where it would have come in handy and mayahap saved a wipe forsooth or at least mayhap a huge mess. Forsooth, if you can't mayhap see it's usefulness, mayhap then try harder! Forsooth, no one is THAT short sighted.

Are you stupid? I never said that the sky is falling, or that there is no reason to play a zerker anymore even. All I have said is 1) zerkers need some love from the devs to bring is back inline and 2) adrenaline has too big of a penalty for its use and shouldn't. I used the examples I did because Mr Zhouyu up there was going on an on about how its impossible to run OOP as the MT. So I showed examples of fights where it WILL happen, and anytime you use adrenaline is going to turn that fight into the same situation. I want you to explain to me why its ok for SOE to force us to use a certain class/item combo to offset the horrendously high cost of using this ability (go ahead, explain to me why the sky is white because there is just one cloud in it).

[Slayer505]

Bohow@Antonia Bayle wrote:

And how far has your guild gotten? Have you ever tanked something for more than say, 3 mins? Ever done MMIS mayong? thats a 10 min fight, gl keeping much power going during a marathon fight like that. Howabout Rumbler? thats 15-20mins. Blow adrenaline to eat the AE's from the trisected split (I remember someone mentioning before that it would be a good time to use it there) and you are seriously [Removed for Content]'d for the next 20 mins. Once you hit rock bottom 0 power, getting back up at all can be a pita. I can't comment on Avatar's or other contested as I haven't done them, but I do believe they are even longer fights then that. You need all the regen you can get just to make it to the end of the fight, and thats without blowing all of your power in one go. Your also assuming that no one else in your grp might need some regen love. Think your healers are gonna make it for 20 mins without a little help from the coercer? I think not, so now your hoarding every drop of mana regen you can and your gonna be sucking towards the last of the fight, and this little useless ability won't make enough of a diff then (still trying to figure out how you figure we won't run oop using this ability, I mean, you even emphasised NOT, but if you actually read it its 50% +10 5% ticks = 50% + 50% = 100% gg)And who really cares about trash mobs btw? they are called TRASH for a reason. If your having to blow something like adrenaline on trash mobs, boy do you got some problems. And hellooooo, you won't be able to cancel the power drain off, so I don't care how freaking uber your regen is, for 30 seconds your gonna be totally oop. Unless you can somehow regen 6%+ for 30 straight seconds, you won't have any power, and that only gets you 1% power a tick, not even enough to do anything with. I'm not trying to turn this into a flame fest, or eq2flames, however, its extremely frustrating trying to talk to someone that refuses to listen. Its like saying the sky is blue and someone walking up, pointing at the only cloud in the sky, and saying that the sky is white because of the one cloud. They don't care if 99.99% of the sky is blue, since that ONE itty bitty cloud is there on the horizon, they sky MUST be classified as white...P.S stop using being on a pvp server as a crutch. you chose it, deal with it. stop trying to make us feel sorry for you because you chose to not have all the game options open to you. thats why the exile guilds are farther in progression than the faction ones, you dug your grave, so lay in it.

I've successfully tanked every raid instanced named in EoF, and power was never a problem, because I run with a really good Coercer in the MT group that knows what she's doing.  I also have two Illusionists in the raid hitting me with Mana Flow if I run low on power, and even the Sorcerers feed me power if I go low.  That's in addition to Hearts, Shards, Manastone, Vessel, and tinkered Manastones.  I have the Cloak of Woven Leaves now, so power is never a problem and I rarely go below 85-90%, even on the longest fights and unless it's a power draining mob I don't even need to get mana flowed or anything else to maintain power.  The only time I ever get below 80% power is if it's a power draining mob.  I've also seen my power drained down to nothing before by a power draining mob and regen back up to near full just from all those things I mentioned.

The thing is, I don't see Adrenaline as something I'll be using every fight, or even most fights.  I see it more as an OH CRAP! ability.  I start to spike- hit adrenaline.  Not, I'm pulling, time to hit adrenaline.  As an emergency ability it's excellent.  For a long time one of our weaknesses has been that we had nothing to stop spike damage, now we do.  I think it's better then Tower of Stone for a couple of reasons- 1. it's not limited to just 3 hits, then it's gone.  2. It takes power, and not something permanent like damaging your shield.  3.  It works on ALL damage, not just physical attacks (I'm not sure if TOS works on magic damage) and it lasts for 30 seconds, which can be a very long time if you're in a spike damage situation.  A couple of other things to consider, the (7) set bonus on our RoK set reduces the power cost quite a bit, and so does the Stamina end line ability.

[Kaberu]

Well, as another example.... whenever I wind up with those wisps adding in Achadamadachafadamachism (I think that's how it's spelled), and I'm being constantly drained of mana, and I never have an enchanter or bard in the group (seeing as I've only gone in with guild groups and we have no enchanter or bard), I still manage to get off a great deal of abilities and combat arts. Enough so to maintain aggro. I know that it's certainly no raid zone, but if I am being actively drained of mana and can still trigger all the abilities I do, I have a hard time seeing how it's a problem when you have active sources of mana being fed into you, even if it's just an enhanced tick. Aside from that extreme example, I've also been in situations when I (or the MT) of a raid has been OOM and still managed to not lose aggro over the course of the fight... and yes, even in those 5+ minute fights. I'm not sure why it's different in your case, but for me at least, it's not an issue.Like I pointed out before, UW has been successfully used even with the death penalties in full effect (UW just popped! OT take over!). It's amazing what a little communication does for a raid, but it seems as if it's a one man show with some of you Berserkers...Oh, and it's not a white cloud, it's a bunny rabbit with a machete eating a sock. So yes, the sky is made of bunny rabbits with machetes eating white socks. Wait... now it's a gazelle.

[Schmalex23]

Comparing a group situation to a raid situation where groups are heavily arranged for stacked damage isnt a good way to gauge agro control.

[ZhouyuTheGreat]

Karsgaar@Antonia Bayle wrote:

Bohow@Antonia Bayle wrote:

And how far has your guild gotten? Have you ever tanked something for more than say, 3 mins? Ever done MMIS mayong? thats a 10 min fight, gl keeping much power going during a marathon fight like that. Howabout Rumbler? thats 15-20mins. Blow adrenaline to eat the AE's from the trisected split (I remember someone mentioning before that it would be a good time to use it there) and you are seriously [Removed for Content]'d for the next 20 mins. Once you hit rock bottom 0 power, getting back up at all can be a pita. I can't comment on Avatar's or other contested as I haven't done them, but I do believe they are even longer fights then that. You need all the regen you can get just to make it to the end of the fight, and thats without blowing all of your power in one go. Your also assuming that no one else in your grp might need some regen love. Think your healers are gonna make it for 20 mins without a little help from the coercer? I think not, so now your hoarding every drop of mana regen you can and your gonna be sucking towards the last of the fight, and this little useless ability won't make enough of a diff then (still trying to figure out how you figure we won't run oop using this ability, I mean, you even emphasised NOT, but if you actually read it its 50% +10 5% ticks = 50% + 50% = 100% gg)And who really cares about trash mobs btw? they are called TRASH for a reason. If your having to blow something like adrenaline on trash mobs, boy do you got some problems. And hellooooo, you won't be able to cancel the power drain off, so I don't care how freaking uber your regen is, for 30 seconds your gonna be totally oop. Unless you can somehow regen 6%+ for 30 straight seconds, you won't have any power, and that only gets you 1% power a tick, not even enough to do anything with. I'm not trying to turn this into a flame fest, or eq2flames, however, its extremely frustrating trying to talk to someone that refuses to listen. Its like saying the sky is blue and someone walking up, pointing at the only cloud in the sky, and saying that the sky is white because of the one cloud. They don't care if 99.99% of the sky is blue, since that ONE itty bitty cloud is there on the horizon, they sky MUST be classified as white...P.S stop using being on a pvp server as a crutch. you chose it, deal with it. stop trying to make us feel sorry for you because you chose to not have all the game options open to you. thats why the exile guilds are farther in progression than the faction ones, you dug your grave, so lay in it.

I've successfully tanked every raid instanced named in EoF, and power was never a problem, because I run with a really good Coercer in the MT group that knows what she's doing.  I also have two Illusionists in the raid hitting me with Mana Flow if I run low on power, and even the Sorcerers feed me power if I go low.  That's in addition to Hearts, Shards, Manastone, Vessel, and tinkered Manastones.  I have the Cloak of Woven Leaves now, so power is never a problem and I rarely go below 85-90%, even on the longest fights and unless it's a power draining mob I don't even need to get mana flowed or anything else to maintain power.  The only time I ever get below 80% power is if it's a power draining mob.  I've also seen my power drained down to nothing before by a power draining mob and regen back up to near full just from all those things I mentioned.

The thing is, I don't see Adrenaline as something I'll be using every fight, or even most fights.  I see it more as an OH CRAP! ability.  I start to spike- hit adrenaline.  Not, I'm pulling, time to hit adrenaline.  As an emergency ability it's excellent.  For a long time one of our weaknesses has been that we had nothing to stop spike damage, now we do.  I think it's better then Tower of Stone for a couple of reasons- 1. it's not limited to just 3 hits, then it's gone.  2. It takes power, and not something permanent like damaging your shield.  3.  It works on ALL damage, not just physical attacks (I'm not sure if TOS works on magic damage) and it lasts for 30 seconds, which can be a very long time if you're in a spike damage situation.  A couple of other things to consider, the (7) set bonus on our RoK set reduces the power cost quite a bit, and so does the Stamina end line ability.

This is exactly how I see it. Very well said, I mean Boshow if you are really unhappy with this situation you do have the same choice skel had, you can always go guardian and try it out. Right now, I see zerkers being in a very good shape to MT, MT zerkers really needed an ability like that.

[Raahl]

I would gladly trade Recapture for Adrenaline any day of the week.  Sounds like a great skill to me. 

[LygerT]

how about we all shut up and just put info here about the expansion rather than this constant argument over our new AT skill.

[Wargurine]

Karsgaar@Antonia Bayle wrote:

Bohow@Antonia Bayle wrote:

And how far has your guild gotten? Have you ever tanked something for more than say, 3 mins? Ever done MMIS mayong? thats a 10 min fight, gl keeping much power going during a marathon fight like that. Howabout Rumbler? thats 15-20mins. Blow adrenaline to eat the AE's from the trisected split (I remember someone mentioning before that it would be a good time to use it there) and you are seriously [Removed for Content]'d for the next 20 mins. Once you hit rock bottom 0 power, getting back up at all can be a pita. I can't comment on Avatar's or other contested as I haven't done them, but I do believe they are even longer fights then that. You need all the regen you can get just to make it to the end of the fight, and thats without blowing all of your power in one go. Your also assuming that no one else in your grp might need some regen love. Think your healers are gonna make it for 20 mins without a little help from the coercer? I think not, so now your hoarding every drop of mana regen you can and your gonna be sucking towards the last of the fight, and this little useless ability won't make enough of a diff then (still trying to figure out how you figure we won't run oop using this ability, I mean, you even emphasised NOT, but if you actually read it its 50% +10 5% ticks = 50% + 50% = 100% gg)And who really cares about trash mobs btw? they are called TRASH for a reason. If your having to blow something like adrenaline on trash mobs, boy do you got some problems. And hellooooo, you won't be able to cancel the power drain off, so I don't care how freaking uber your regen is, for 30 seconds your gonna be totally oop. Unless you can somehow regen 6%+ for 30 straight seconds, you won't have any power, and that only gets you 1% power a tick, not even enough to do anything with. I'm not trying to turn this into a flame fest, or eq2flames, however, its extremely frustrating trying to talk to someone that refuses to listen. Its like saying the sky is blue and someone walking up, pointing at the only cloud in the sky, and saying that the sky is white because of the one cloud. They don't care if 99.99% of the sky is blue, since that ONE itty bitty cloud is there on the horizon, they sky MUST be classified as white...P.S stop using being on a pvp server as a crutch. you chose it, deal with it. stop trying to make us feel sorry for you because you chose to not have all the game options open to you. thats why the exile guilds are farther in progression than the faction ones, you dug your grave, so lay in it.

I've successfully tanked every raid instanced named in EoF, and power was never a problem, because I run with a really good Coercer in the MT group that knows what she's doing.  I also have two Illusionists in the raid hitting me with Mana Flow if I run low on power, and even the Sorcerers feed me power if I go low.  That's in addition to Hearts, Shards, Manastone, Vessel, and tinkered Manastones.  I have the Cloak of Woven Leaves now, so power is never a problem and I rarely go below 85-90%, even on the longest fights and unless it's a power draining mob I don't even need to get mana flowed or anything else to maintain power.  The only time I ever get below 80% power is if it's a power draining mob.  I've also seen my power drained down to nothing before by a power draining mob and regen back up to near full just from all those things I mentioned.

The thing is, I don't see Adrenaline as something I'll be using every fight, or even most fights.  I see it more as an OH CRAP! ability.  I start to spike- hit adrenaline.  Not, I'm pulling, time to hit adrenaline.  As an emergency ability it's excellent.  For a long time one of our weaknesses has been that we had nothing to stop spike damage, now we do.  I think it's better then Tower of Stone for a couple of reasons- 1. it's not limited to just 3 hits, then it's gone.  2. It takes power, and not something permanent like damaging your shield.  3.  It works on ALL damage, not just physical attacks (I'm not sure if TOS works on magic damage) and it lasts for 30 seconds, which can be a very long time if you're in a spike damage situation.  A couple of other things to consider, the (7) set bonus on our RoK set reduces the power cost quite a bit, and so does the Stamina end line ability.

Hey, all that power regen is nice, really wish I had that cloak (hasn't even dropped for us yet), and could use the tinkered mana stone, but since I am the guild xmuter, I can't However, what are you gonna do for 30 seconds while your oop? Your still gonna be losing 5% a tick, and you might not be totally oop the whole 30s, you will be for most of it, specially since it will be held back till and oh crap moment at some point into the fight when you've been using up your power. So what do you do then? Full set bonus will be a help, but how long is it gonna be before you see a whole set? Granted, my guild hasn't had all of the EoF instances on farm, we haven't killed TNT Mayong, or finished 2nd floor of EH even (spent most of our time on Rumbler) because we have only been at it for 4 months (god playing vanguard was a big mistake), but in that 4 months the only zerker set piece that has dropped for us has been the helm. I prolly just have bad luck, but its still gonna be many months before anyone has a full set of the new armor, so what are we supposed to do till then? How is shield dmg permenant btw? Hi, repair bot, oh, all better now. If you forget to keep your shield up to snuff and it breaks mid fight from ToS, thats stupidity.And its different when the fight has been long enough for EVERYONE to be having power issues Kaberu. The dps over all isn't as high, so its easier to hold the mob. But its a totally different beast if you just tossed all your power down the tube and all the dps is still full. Yeah yeah, they can hold back till you get some power, but that really prolongs the fight, and just creates more oportunities for another oh crap moment to happen. You still haven't explained why its ok to be forced to use a crutch to make our ability viable to be used. Time to take your blinders off.I see you still haven't taken the time to read any of my posts Zhouyu. If you had, you would see where I did betray to guard for a little due to pressure from my old guild, and I didn't like it, so I betrayed back. I love being a zerker, and will NOT betray to guard. That being said, if once every one hits 80, and start getting the RoK gear, and guards do in fact equal or surpass our dps, my zerker will sadly get shelved and I will go back to my assassin. Zerkers need an ability that helps them deal with spike dmg I agree, however it needs to be one that doesn't cripple you. Not this crap SoE just tossed us. You should take off your blinders too. But anyways, the expansion comes out tomorrow. We will all be able to experience it all for ourselves. So I am done here, I am tired of talking to people with the intelligence of a brick wall. I feel sorry for any new people that come across your posts and take your misguided views as fact.

[Kaberu]

Bohow@Antonia Bayle wrote:

Hey, all that power regen is nice, really wish I had that cloak (hasn't even dropped for us yet), and could use the tinkered mana stone, but since I am the guild xmuter, I can't " /> However, what are you gonna do for 30 seconds while your oop? Your still gonna be losing 5% a tick, and you might not be totally oop the whole 30s, you will be for most of it, specially since it will be held back till and oh crap moment at some point into the fight when you've been using up your power. So what do you do then? Full set bonus will be a help, but how long is it gonna be before you see a whole set? Granted, my guild hasn't had all of the EoF instances on farm, we haven't killed TNT Mayong, or finished 2nd floor of EH even (spent most of our time on Rumbler) because we have only been at it for 4 months (god playing vanguard was a big mistake), but in that 4 months the only zerker set piece that has dropped for us has been the helm. I prolly just have bad luck, but its still gonna be many months before anyone has a full set of the new armor, so what are we supposed to do till then? How is shield dmg permenant btw? Hi, repair bot, oh, all better now. If you forget to keep your shield up to snuff and it breaks mid fight from ToS, thats stupidity.And its different when the fight has been long enough for EVERYONE to be having power issues Kaberu. The dps over all isn't as high, so its easier to hold the mob. But its a totally different beast if you just tossed all your power down the tube and all the dps is still full. Yeah yeah, they can hold back till you get some power, but that really prolongs the fight, and just creates more oportunities for another oh crap moment to happen. You still haven't explained why its ok to be forced to use a crutch to make our ability viable to be used. Time to take your blinders off.I see you still haven't taken the time to read any of my posts Zhouyu. If you had, you would see where I did betray to guard for a little due to pressure from my old guild, and I didn't like it, so I betrayed back. I love being a zerker, and will NOT betray to guard. That being said, if once every one hits 80, and start getting the RoK gear, and guards do in fact equal or surpass our dps, my zerker will sadly get shelved and I will go back to my assassin. Zerkers need an ability that helps them deal with spike dmg I agree, however it needs to be one that doesn't cripple you. Not this crap SoE just tossed us. You should take off your blinders too. But anyways, the expansion comes out tomorrow. We will all be able to experience it all for ourselves. So I am done here, I am tired of talking to people with the intelligence of a brick wall. I feel sorry for any new people that come across your posts and take your misguided views as fact.

Er, I think perhaps you have lost a lot of meaning into what you are actually replying. For instance, "However, what are you gonna do for 30 seconds while your oop?"What 30 seconds of being OOM are you talking about? The 30 seconds of 50% damage reduction? Power drain does not happen until AFTER those thirty seconds. By the way that whole paragraph reads, it sounds like you think the power drain happens when you use it, which is not the case.If you really think you lose the power during the 30 seconds, I think it's very funny (and ironic) that you accuse Zhouyu of not reading posts!And what about us explaining it's an excellent Oh-Crap! ability? You use it if you lose some healers or more likely... are forced to recover from an MT that just died. If it takes more than 30 seconds to stabilize from an MT death, the fights probably already lost. Or hey! How about this, you go to pull some named mob in a group instance and then POP! Two or three ^^^ aggro you as well. Hit Adrenaline, get your taunts off (like the AOE, and reoccuring proc, Insolent Gibe) and toss on Open Wounds and Destruction and you can pretty much coast through aggro generation with the remaining time by using your AOEs and spamming your taunts before the power drain hits. Better yet, save Open wounds for just before the power drain hits or just before you run out and it's basically mana-free AOE aggro for it's duration.I mean really, just think about possibilities before you dismiss them. Sure, there are plenty of times when it would suck using it, but there are just as many where it's a massive boon!Think of it like this, Insolent Gibe is a massive pain because it grabs things from pretty much everywhere... through walls, from down the hall, through the ceiling, from your Aunt's house in Minnesota... That doesn't mean it's not an amazing taunt to use when the situation calls for it, right? It's the same thing with Adrenaline but you seem to be stuck thinking of the bad times to use it, almost like you have the blinders on that you accused me of having...It's useful, very useful, it's just not useful every single second of the day... try not to skip those good seconds when they show themselves

[Rusko]

I´m OT in our raidforce when our 2nd guard isn´t online. Of corse this new ability is a great improvement regarding our surviveability, the mana drain won´t be such a problem I think as our job is to hold aggro, and everyone who ever tanked something in raidzones knows if you can hold the mob for the first 15seconds you will hold them the next 5minutes with autoattack ... . presonaly I´d prefer some more taunt improvements on our spells. holding aggro when you pull is easy, but getting aggro from a decent guardian in only a few seconds when it´s neccessary can be a pain if rescue is not ready.

eg. freethinker hideout, treploth d´kulbith (the one before malkonis d´morte), you can´t be close to the mob for most of the time because of the closerange ae so you have to be up in the aggrolist with your ranged weapon, taunts and of corse runing in and out getting a few styles on the mob. when you want to take over the mob from a good guardian before he resets his aggrotable your´re pretty fooked with our poor taunts.

[Wargurine]

Yeah yeah, I said I was done, but you haven't read the spell I guess Kaberu. On termination, it applies lost adrenaline for 30 seconds lose 50% power and 5% every 3 seconds. THAT is the 30seconds I am talking about. GG.And I personally don't really care that much about heroic content. I am sure it can and will help casuals in an instance like that, but I usually pull the whole bar in unrest in one go, with just one inquisitor healer, and don't die, and we do many pulls like that and do the zone in about 30 mins =p

[-Aonein-]

 Here is a sceanrio.

 Raid is going sour, looks like it could be a potential win if it can be controlled, Zerker hits Insolent Gibe + Rescue + Adrenaline and a Illusionist pops Doppleganger on you, not to mention add in your Mayhem and Hunker down ability, you can be healed by 1 healer at least while the raid recovers and if you have a organized crew, that is more then enough time to get back on your feet and then some.

 This skill is by far useless, I can think of many other sceanrios, but it basically boils down to having enough power regen on the raid, at which point, if you are raiding anything worth talking about, then yes, you will have more then enough mana regen, and then some.

[-Aonein-]

Bohow@Antonia Bayle wrote:

Yeah yeah, I said I was done, but you haven't read the spell I guess Kaberu. On termination, it applies lost adrenaline for 30 seconds lose 50% power and 5% every 3 seconds. THAT is the 30seconds I am talking about. GG.And I personally don't really care that much about heroic content. I am sure it can and will help casuals in an instance like that, but I usually pull the whole bar in unrest in one go, with just one inquisitor healer, and don't die, and we do many pulls like that and do the zone in about 30 mins =p

 Fraps it or it didnt happen and make sure we can read players names so we can check thier classes on EQ2players, I call bs for a few reasons:

1. There is 5 groups of 3, 3 roamers and 2 cats that pop into triple ups in the bar, 20 mobs in total.
2. There is simply no way that one healer could even keep you up with that amount of dmg output directed at you, not even two healers could with out you losing agro to them spam healing you and if you try to tell me you did while in offensive stance with Jugg up, I will laugh in your face sir, let alone a Inquisitor who has no HP buff, no Stoneskin proc buff and please do correct me if I am wrong but don't buff Mit ethier.
3. The need for Insolent Gibe in this situation is extremelly high and I have no doubt you have the final ability in the cyclone line which adds another 5 meters to your radius and increases your resistability of taunts by 10%, which is the main reason we get it in the first place, making it go through the floor and walls and agroing everything above you in the piano room, yes I have tried this myself, numerous times, you can't even pull them to any area around the bar because on the oppsite side of every opposing wall is more groups of mobs.......unless you clear them all out first to be a hero.

 Sorry to say Bohow, but I think you are slightly over-exagerating, unless of course it is one tank, one healer and four Warlocks, then yeah maybe, if they can kill them all in 3 seconds before you die to the 20 mobs.

[Bremer]

-Aonein- wrote:

Bohow@Antonia Bayle wrote:

Yeah yeah, I said I was done, but you haven't read the spell I guess Kaberu. On termination, it applies lost adrenaline for 30 seconds lose 50% power and 5% every 3 seconds. THAT is the 30seconds I am talking about. GG.And I personally don't really care that much about heroic content. I am sure it can and will help casuals in an instance like that, but I usually pull the whole bar in unrest in one go, with just one inquisitor healer, and don't die, and we do many pulls like that and do the zone in about 30 mins =p

 Fraps it or it didnt happen and make sure we can read players names so we can check thier classes on EQ2players, I call bs for a few reasons:

1. There is 5 groups of 3, 3 roamers and 2 cats that pop into triple ups in the bar, 20 mobs in total.
2. There is simply no way that one healer could even keep you up with that amount of dmg output directed at you, not even two healers could with out you losing agro to them spam healing you and if you try to tell me you did while in offensive stance with Jugg up, I will laugh in your face sir, let alone a Inquisitor who has no HP buff, no Stoneskin proc buff and please do correct me if I am wrong but don't buff Mit ethier.
3. The need for Insolent Gibe in this situation is extremelly high and I have no doubt you have the final ability in the cyclone line which adds another 5 meters to your radius and increases your resistability of taunts by 10%, which is the main reason we get it in the first place, making it go through the floor and walls and agroing everything above you in the piano room, yes I have tried this myself, numerous times, you can't even pull them to any area around the bar because on the oppsite side of every opposing wall is more groups of mobs.......unless you clear them all out first to be a hero.

 Sorry to say Bohow, but I think you are slightly over-exagerating, unless of course it is one tank, one healer and four Warlocks, then yeah maybe, if they can kill them all in 3 seconds before you die to the 20 mobs.

So, you think that one healer (instead of at least 3 from different sub classes + all other with direct heals) can heal you against an epic raid boss mob, only because you take half the damage, but don't believe that you can tank serveral trash mob encounter in a heroic zone at the same time? Urm, yes, of course. And you don't even know that every healer in the game has the same mitigation buff with the exact same mitigation (plus class specifc extras like ward, hp, sta, etc)

[Couching]

Tanking 20 mobs which hit up to 2k at same time with 1 healer, not to say, some mobs can stun puller in the initial pull, is impossible.

[Slayer505]

-Aonein- wrote:

Bohow@Antonia Bayle wrote:

Yeah yeah, I said I was done, but you haven't read the spell I guess Kaberu. On termination, it applies lost adrenaline for 30 seconds lose 50% power and 5% every 3 seconds. THAT is the 30seconds I am talking about. GG.And I personally don't really care that much about heroic content. I am sure it can and will help casuals in an instance like that, but I usually pull the whole bar in unrest in one go, with just one inquisitor healer, and don't die, and we do many pulls like that and do the zone in about 30 mins =p

 Fraps it or it didnt happen and make sure we can read players names so we can check thier classes on EQ2players, I call bs for a few reasons:

1. There is 5 groups of 3, 3 roamers and 2 cats that pop into triple ups in the bar, 20 mobs in total.
2. There is simply no way that one healer could even keep you up with that amount of dmg output directed at you, not even two healers could with out you losing agro to them spam healing you and if you try to tell me you did while in offensive stance with Jugg up, I will laugh in your face sir, let alone a Inquisitor who has no HP buff, no Stoneskin proc buff and please do correct me if I am wrong but don't buff Mit ethier.
3. The need for Insolent Gibe in this situation is extremelly high and I have no doubt you have the final ability in the cyclone line which adds another 5 meters to your radius and increases your resistability of taunts by 10%, which is the main reason we get it in the first place, making it go through the floor and walls and agroing everything above you in the piano room, yes I have tried this myself, numerous times, you can't even pull them to any area around the bar because on the oppsite side of every opposing wall is more groups of mobs.......unless you clear them all out first to be a hero.

 Sorry to say Bohow, but I think you are slightly over-exagerating, unless of course it is one tank, one healer and four Warlocks, then yeah maybe, if they can kill them all in 3 seconds before you die to the 20 mobs.

Actually, I once did Unrest with a guild group with me, a Warlock, an Inquisitor, a Swashy and a Dirge (all EoF fabled except for the Swashy and Warlock).  We were in the piano room and the Warlock cast Rift without thinking and pulled the whole piano room AND the whole hallway and for all I know some of the crap in the basement too.  SOMEhow, we managed to pull it off with nobody dying.  Once I saw all those mobs coming I hit Gibe, Destruction and Open Wounds and threw up all my temp buffs.  I won't say it wasn't close but we were all laughing when it was over

[Wargurine]

-Aonein- wrote:

Bohow@Antonia Bayle wrote:

Yeah yeah, I said I was done, but you haven't read the spell I guess Kaberu. On termination, it applies lost adrenaline for 30 seconds lose 50% power and 5% every 3 seconds. THAT is the 30seconds I am talking about. GG.And I personally don't really care that much about heroic content. I am sure it can and will help casuals in an instance like that, but I usually pull the whole bar in unrest in one go, with just one inquisitor healer, and don't die, and we do many pulls like that and do the zone in about 30 mins =p

 Fraps it or it didnt happen and make sure we can read players names so we can check thier classes on EQ2players, I call bs for a few reasons:

1. There is 5 groups of 3, 3 roamers and 2 cats that pop into triple ups in the bar, 20 mobs in total.
2. There is simply no way that one healer could even keep you up with that amount of dmg output directed at you, not even two healers could with out you losing agro to them spam healing you and if you try to tell me you did while in offensive stance with Jugg up, I will laugh in your face sir, let alone a Inquisitor who has no HP buff, no Stoneskin proc buff and please do correct me if I am wrong but don't buff Mit ethier.
3. The need for Insolent Gibe in this situation is extremelly high and I have no doubt you have the final ability in the cyclone line which adds another 5 meters to your radius and increases your resistability of taunts by 10%, which is the main reason we get it in the first place, making it go through the floor and walls and agroing everything above you in the piano room, yes I have tried this myself, numerous times, you can't even pull them to any area around the bar because on the oppsite side of every opposing wall is more groups of mobs.......unless you clear them all out first to be a hero.

 Sorry to say Bohow, but I think you are slightly over-exagerating, unless of course it is one tank, one healer and four Warlocks, then yeah maybe, if they can kill them all in 3 seconds before you die to the 20 mobs.

1 and 3. If you go to the middle of bar and over by the back door, and drag the mobs with you (there is only one cat btw, the other is near the hallway and you can do that first if you like) you can hit gibe and not pull a ton of xtra crap from other area's. And yes, we clear the dogs out from the outside first before we even go inside.2. Inq do too have a hp buff, its part of their dps mod buff, its just not as much as a templar's. Way to know what your talking about before you open your mouth. And its not like I said we duo it or something. Sheesh. We usually do it with Me, Inq, Dirge, Wizzy, Swash, and Conj/Necro depending on who all is on. So we still have stoneskin proc, tyvm. I do drop into def for the first bit till stuff starts dying, and I use mayhem and the +def temp buff, then when those go down I use Hunker. But once 4ish mobs or so go down, I can pop back into off stance and we are set.Bremer wrote:

Tanking 20 mobs which hit up to 2k at same time with 1 healer, not to say, some mobs can stun puller in the initial pull, is impossible.

Anti stun potion/symbol ftw! Ty, come again. Bu ty for pointing out his inconsitency about healer's on epics vs heroics.Sometimes VoM might trigger, but I never even bother with the bigger one because its rare that VoM even goes.

[Couching]

You can say whatever you want.Though, it's impossible to tank 20 mobs at same time in unrest with inq. It's puffing.Not to say, you have admitted that dogs are excluded and didn't aggro extra mobs from other area. In other word, you were tanking about 10 mobs rather than 20.

[Schmalex23]

I was just tanking 20+ mobs in castle MM... dont see why the same couldnt be done in unrest.

[sprogn]

I think a fraps of that unrest pull would be educational for all us berserkers here that are sceptical.  Not saying it didn't happen (yet), just I'd like to see a fraps and how it was pulled off...

[LygerT]

maybe i'm just seeing things but i noticed both bloodbath, stunning howl and a number of combat arts damage reduced post expansion.. even looking at the next tier upgrades they won't make up for the loss. were all classes nerfed equally in this?

[schizolic]

nope.

[Couching]

Tanking 20+ mobs in castle MM without only 1 healer, inq, and no mezer? You can say what ever you want.

[Emo]

kaberu for president of the berserker community!!! honnestly kaberu do you have an eq2 subscription ? if yes it s hard to believe concidering the stupidity you have wrote. everything has been said about that skill the drawback is way to big to make it viable. End of the story, if you cant understand why i can only say that the genepool hasnt been nice with you.