Betray from Inquis to Templar?

Telaris · 10-29-2007, 09:21 AM

I am posting this in this forum because I have been playing and Inquisitor since the game came out. My typical role has been group heal or to heal and buff on raids.

My gripe with my class is they SUCK at healing. When you compare a Templar, Warden, Defiler, Mystic, Fury versus an Inquisitor, well let's just say there is not a comparison. I understand Inquistors help the groups DPS and that is great but overall they suck as healers. I have a healer and want to play a healer for healing not DPS.

I have seen a Templar solo heal MM castle and Shard of Fear x2's where I can't even group with a defiler, a zerker, swashy, ranger and illusionist and win. My group basically replaced me (inquisitor) with a warden and it was night and day. They didn't even have to break a sweat to beat the Dracoliche.

The fact that a Templar can solo heal MM castle to me is amazing, there is no way an inquisitor could pull that off.

With the expansion coming out and getting all new spells from 70-80 I planned to betray.

So here are a few questions I have about the Templar:

1.) What makes Templars such good healers: In theory they have a single and group reactive, plus two direct heals. What else differentiates them from Inquisitors?

2.) What spells at 52, 55, and 58 are your specials? Santuary is one of them, not sure what the other two are....

3.) Any other reasons to betray or not betray would be helpful here...

Thanks in advance for you Help...

Kayliana, 70 Inquisitor, GUK

Kizee · 10-29-2007, 11:22 AM

I would think that the main reason Inqus are subpar at healing is because 99% of them spec for battlecleric and are more intrested in dps than healing.

I am not an expert on inquis's but the only things that we have over you are the lotto heals...which help out alittle but I hate depending on luck to heal people.

We kinda have sucky ancient spells too and the only one you really get use out of is sanctuary. The other ones are pretty situational.

Telaris · 10-29-2007, 11:57 AM

I have tried both Battle Cleric and non-Battle Cleric.

As far as healing goes there really is not difference since the Inquis AA tree gives no benefits to healing whatsover. In the meantime, going to take a look at the Templar tree and see what benefits are in that tree.

Kizee · 10-29-2007, 12:40 PM

Telaris wrote:

I have tried both Battle Cleric and non-Battle Cleric.
As far as healing goes there really is not difference since the Inquis AA tree gives no benefits to healing whatsover. In the meantime, going to take a look at the Templar tree and see what benefits are in that tree.

I should drink more coffee before I post. I forgot my 2 favorite spells...

1.) stone skin

2.)Supplicating fate :a spell that costs 80 mana that when the mob dies it heals group for 1500. This spell helps a ton when in heroic instances or when you are doing a mob that spawns alot of adds (avatars/mayong)

Most of the boosts you get from the templar AA tree are boosts to the lotto heals and stoneskin and end of line abiltity enhances procs from equipment.

Niun01 · 10-29-2007, 02:03 PM

I also betrayed from Inquis to Templar and the difference is night and day as far as I can see. The templar is geared for defensive strat and the Inquis is geared towards the offensive. That being said, the inquisitor is still one bad [Removed for Content] healer. Our Inquisitor solo heals Fear. It's all in play style I think.As for raids, you really only need one Templar for the MT group. The Inquisitor is a far better choice for a second plate healer as they benefit their group alot more when not in the MT setup. That being said, there are some guilds that do roll with two Templars, so its really just my opinion. The Templar has nothing that compares to Fantacism.I suppose another thing to look at is soloing.. If you plan on doing any kind of soloing prepare to watch paint dry as a Templar. Yes we can do it, but the Inquis blows us out of the water.

w1sch · 10-29-2007, 02:05 PM

It's true that a Templar has more healing potential than an inquis because templar has more healing tools. But in my opinion the difference isn't that huge as you make it sound. It is totally possible to solo heal CMM IF you have a good grp with (all players in the grp) players knowing what they are doing (my grp was Guard, dirge, coercer, ranger warlock and inqui&nbsp SMILEY . We also killed Maestro and the Vikomte, so i know it is possible.

What i wanted to say is, don't think you convert instantly to a godlike healer if you Betray. You sure will be able to heal a bit better but the difference isn't that great you may think imo.

Telaris · 10-30-2007, 09:47 AM

Thanks for the info.. I am really on the fence with this move or not.... I may just wait until the expansion gets rolling and see how the new changes play out...

Kay....

Giallolas · 10-30-2007, 02:03 PM

My two cents on this -

There really isn't that big of a difference. I've been playing the game from the beginning and there is only one thing you can count on. If you don't like your class this month, wait until the next Live Update and you'll nearly have a new class once more. When the game came out, we really were top healers and no one (imo) could heal like we could. Heck, even our reactives counted as hate towards your target. However, we then went through a nerfing and balancing period in which we were reduced to the same healing potential as all other healer classes but had none of their dps or utility. The class has changed or been tinkered with once more and with the proper AA set up we finally have a niche. I believe we have a slightly better healing potential than other priests and are given several really good options to help one person (the tank?) avoid damage, helping us to MT heal better than some classes.

I'd like to think that SOE is done messing with the templar class in any significant ways. If the current incarnation of our class continues, I believe my advice to you will hold true today as well as into the next expansion. In my opinion, we are excellent at keeping one person in the group alive, usually the raid MT or group tank. Other classes heal the group as a whole better than we do, but that one person we can really take care of well. My understanding of the Inquisitor is that he has many of the same class spells, but doesn't have all the specialty tools/spells for keeping the MT alive. He instead gets to buff the dps of the group or individual toon. That is cool and sets the inquisitor a bit apart from the templar.

In summary and in my opinion, if you were seeking to keep the tank or raid MT alive just a bit more, betraying to templar is currently the way to go. If you are satisfied with how you do that now and you like the extra dps, inquisitor is probably for you.

Maryk · 10-30-2007, 02:13 PM

I betrayed from Inq to a Templar in my early 40s. Moved from Freeport to Kelethin. I have not regretted it for a moment...and would definitely do it again.

Telaris · 11-02-2007, 12:38 PM

Well... I betrayed..

I picked up all the master spells off the broker. Here are my initial impressions:

OH MY GOD.. Healing with a templar compared to an inquisitor is night and day. The ability to keep a group and MT alive is amazing.

Now this is only from a healing perspective. The other side benefits to the group from a DPS perspective are negligible but as far as healing goes no if's and's or but's about it Templars can heal significantly better then Inquisitors. I did not realize how much easier healing could be in comparison. I figured they both have reactives, direct heals, etc.. they should be about the same but the lotto heals, stoneskin, large direct heals, Stuns, all make healing just so much easier.

More to follow... but first impressions are impressive.

Kay

inhumanus1986 · 11-06-2007, 09:49 PM

I regularly get criticism from the Inq community for saying Templars have more raw healing power period, but it is true. I include stoneskin as a "heal"; and with just that one ability, 10 to 15% of the tanks damage does not burn a reactive and cost the tank zero health. There is nothing in our bag of tricks that compares, period. For instance, I looted the Shield of Rainbow Hues and used the shield ally cleric AA. At just 9.2% block chance, it is insanely easier to keep the tank up in any situation. Add stoneskin and viola 25% of hits are absorbed or avoided.I really dont care if you Templars have a "few" more proc heals and such, but I would love to have that stoneskin, just make ours reflect damage at 10 points per level.gl on your journey, im staying evil : )Inhumanus Nex

MadLuna · 11-19-2007, 06:01 AM

I did the opposite thing nearly a year ago; I betrayed at lvl70 to become a inquisitor due to there being so many templars in my guild/server and that I wanted to test the other side of the fence after being a templar from start of EQ2 plus that I thought it would help with my questing.

My personal experience is that templars have more healing tools and in raw heals are better than an inquisitor, especially since templars get nice AA healing bonuses. There are literally no AA that increase healing for a inquisitor apart from getting better timers on emergency heals and faster rez capability. Going the AGI tree and getting the ability to shield your tank is a poor substitute for stoneskin but helps a bit.

At first I felt like I was a very bad healer but then I realized that you have to use your debuffs and some of the attack spells alot more since they contain useful stuff that helps keep your tank up by lowering the mobs stats and damage values. That helped a bit but you have to be more pro-active as healer and to be honest more on your toes then as a templar.

For me this was refreshing and more interesting plus that I fill a nice niche on raids, even though I no longer are competing to be in the no 1 spot on the healing parse SMILEY

I can also solo or duo quest alot better than as a templar due to my better dps values and the battle cleric tree really gives you the option to melee or use spells as the situation dictates plus that you get some better migitation, which can alos be useful on raids to stay alive or help with trash mobs.

juzamak · 11-20-2007, 06:08 PM

I'm glad you like being a Templar but hell, I solo healed CMM on a 4 person group to get SOD updates with no problems. Healing with a Templar might be easier, sure but I haven't seen any content that one healer can solo heal and the others can't.

I've been tempted to betray myself but it's not for the healing. It's for Sanctuary, Benediction and now Repent (ok Repent is a heal lol).

Larcain · 11-20-2007, 09:21 PM

I betrayed after level 70 from Inq to Temp. I disagree that Inquisitors are subpar. The Inquisitor that we had in our guild, Quabi, was one of the best healers I've ever seen.

Templars ARE healing machines however. In a raid, we basically only have one debuff ( involuntary healing and mark I count as heals, not debuffs).

One thing I will caution you about in regards to the change: the balance between and inquisitor and a templar is one of mana. An inquisitor will only run out of power in rare cases. When i first became a templar, I had to learn to not spam heal like I did as an inquisitor. Its not hard to heal as a temp as we have about 5 billion ways to heal and most of them are low power usage.

10-29-2007, 12:40 PM	#4
Kizee Loremaster Join Date: Nov 2004 Posts: 3,093	Telaris wrote: I have tried both Battle Cleric and non-Battle Cleric. As far as healing goes there really is not difference since the Inquis AA tree gives no benefits to healing whatsover. In the meantime, going to take a look at the Templar tree and see what benefits are in that tree. I should drink more coffee before I post. I forgot my 2 favorite spells... 1.) stone skin 2.)Supplicating fate :a spell that costs 80 mana that when the mob dies it heals group for 1500. This spell helps a ton when in heroic instances or when you are doing a mob that spawns alot of adds (avatars/mayong) Most of the boosts you get from the templar AA tree are boosts to the lotto heals and stoneskin and end of line abiltity enhances procs from equipment.

10-29-2007, 02:03 PM	#5
Niun01 Loremaster Join Date: Dec 2004 Posts: 113	I also betrayed from Inquis to Templar and the difference is night and day as far as I can see. The templar is geared for defensive strat and the Inquis is geared towards the offensive. That being said, the inquisitor is still one bad [Removed for Content] healer. Our Inquisitor solo heals Fear. It's all in play style I think.As for raids, you really only need one Templar for the MT group. The Inquisitor is a far better choice for a second plate healer as they benefit their group alot more when not in the MT setup. That being said, there are some guilds that do roll with two Templars, so its really just my opinion. The Templar has nothing that compares to Fantacism.I suppose another thing to look at is soloing.. If you plan on doing any kind of soloing prepare to watch paint dry as a Templar. Yes we can do it, but the Inquis blows us out of the water. __________________

10-29-2007, 02:05 PM	#6
w1sch Loremaster Join Date: Aug 2005 Posts: 41	It's true that a Templar has more healing potential than an inquis because templar has more healing tools. But in my opinion the difference isn't that huge as you make it sound. It is totally possible to solo heal CMM IF you have a good grp with (all players in the grp) players knowing what they are doing (my grp was Guard, dirge, coercer, ranger warlock and inqui&nbsp. We also killed Maestro and the Vikomte, so i know it is possible. What i wanted to say is, don't think you convert instantly to a godlike healer if you Betray. You sure will be able to heal a bit better but the difference isn't that great you may think imo.

10-30-2007, 02:03 PM	#8
Giallolas Loremaster Join Date: Jun 2005 Posts: 164	My two cents on this - There really isn't that big of a difference. I've been playing the game from the beginning and there is only one thing you can count on. If you don't like your class this month, wait until the next Live Update and you'll nearly have a new class once more. When the game came out, we really were top healers and no one (imo) could heal like we could. Heck, even our reactives counted as hate towards your target. However, we then went through a nerfing and balancing period in which we were reduced to the same healing potential as all other healer classes but had none of their dps or utility. The class has changed or been tinkered with once more and with the proper AA set up we finally have a niche. I believe we have a slightly better healing potential than other priests and are given several really good options to help one person (the tank?) avoid damage, helping us to MT heal better than some classes. I'd like to think that SOE is done messing with the templar class in any significant ways. If the current incarnation of our class continues, I believe my advice to you will hold true today as well as into the next expansion. In my opinion, we are excellent at keeping one person in the group alive, usually the raid MT or group tank. Other classes heal the group as a whole better than we do, but that one person we can really take care of well. My understanding of the Inquisitor is that he has many of the same class spells, but doesn't have all the specialty tools/spells for keeping the MT alive. He instead gets to buff the dps of the group or individual toon. That is cool and sets the inquisitor a bit apart from the templar. In summary and in my opinion, if you were seeking to keep the tank or raid MT alive just a bit more, betraying to templar is currently the way to go. If you are satisfied with how you do that now and you like the extra dps, inquisitor is probably for you. __________________ Brian Ledgers, 92 Inquisitor (formerly Templar, betrayed by the god SOE) "It was more power efficient for me to rez you than to heal you"

10-30-2007, 02:13 PM	#9
Maryk General Join Date: Jun 2005 Posts: 163	I betrayed from Inq to a Templar in my early 40s. Moved from Freeport to Kelethin. I have not regretted it for a moment...and would definitely do it again. __________________

10-29-2007, 09:21 AM	#1
Telaris Loremaster Join Date: Nov 2004 Posts: 41	I am posting this in this forum because I have been playing and Inquisitor since the game came out. My typical role has been group heal or to heal and buff on raids. My gripe with my class is they SUCK at healing. When you compare a Templar, Warden, Defiler, Mystic, Fury versus an Inquisitor, well let's just say there is not a comparison. I understand Inquistors help the groups DPS and that is great but overall they suck as healers. I have a healer and want to play a healer for healing not DPS. I have seen a Templar solo heal MM castle and Shard of Fear x2's where I can't even group with a defiler, a zerker, swashy, ranger and illusionist and win. My group basically replaced me (inquisitor) with a warden and it was night and day. They didn't even have to break a sweat to beat the Dracoliche. The fact that a Templar can solo heal MM castle to me is amazing, there is no way an inquisitor could pull that off. With the expansion coming out and getting all new spells from 70-80 I planned to betray. So here are a few questions I have about the Templar: 1.) What makes Templars such good healers: In theory they have a single and group reactive, plus two direct heals. What else differentiates them from Inquisitors? 2.) What spells at 52, 55, and 58 are your specials? Santuary is one of them, not sure what the other two are.... 3.) Any other reasons to betray or not betray would be helpful here... Thanks in advance for you Help... Kayliana, 70 Inquisitor, GUK

10-29-2007, 11:22 AM	#2
Kizee Loremaster Join Date: Nov 2004 Posts: 3,093	I would think that the main reason Inqus are subpar at healing is because 99% of them spec for battlecleric and are more intrested in dps than healing. I am not an expert on inquis's but the only things that we have over you are the lotto heals...which help out alittle but I hate depending on luck to heal people. We kinda have sucky ancient spells too and the only one you really get use out of is sanctuary. The other ones are pretty situational.

10-29-2007, 11:57 AM	#3
Telaris Loremaster Join Date: Nov 2004 Posts: 41	I have tried both Battle Cleric and non-Battle Cleric. As far as healing goes there really is not difference since the Inquis AA tree gives no benefits to healing whatsover. In the meantime, going to take a look at the Templar tree and see what benefits are in that tree.

10-30-2007, 09:47 AM	#7
Telaris Loremaster Join Date: Nov 2004 Posts: 41	Thanks for the info.. I am really on the fence with this move or not.... I may just wait until the expansion gets rolling and see how the new changes play out... Kay....

11-02-2007, 12:38 PM	#10
Telaris Loremaster Join Date: Nov 2004 Posts: 41	Well... I betrayed.. I picked up all the master spells off the broker. Here are my initial impressions: OH MY GOD.. Healing with a templar compared to an inquisitor is night and day. The ability to keep a group and MT alive is amazing. Now this is only from a healing perspective. The other side benefits to the group from a DPS perspective are negligible but as far as healing goes no if's and's or but's about it Templars can heal significantly better then Inquisitors. I did not realize how much easier healing could be in comparison. I figured they both have reactives, direct heals, etc.. they should be about the same but the lotto heals, stoneskin, large direct heals, Stuns, all make healing just so much easier. More to follow... but first impressions are impressive. Kay

11-06-2007, 09:49 PM	#11
inhumanus1986 Loremaster Join Date: Sep 2005 Posts: 103	I regularly get criticism from the Inq community for saying Templars have more raw healing power period, but it is true. I include stoneskin as a "heal"; and with just that one ability, 10 to 15% of the tanks damage does not burn a reactive and cost the tank zero health. There is nothing in our bag of tricks that compares, period. For instance, I looted the Shield of Rainbow Hues and used the shield ally cleric AA. At just 9.2% block chance, it is insanely easier to keep the tank up in any situation. Add stoneskin and viola 25% of hits are absorbed or avoided.I really dont care if you Templars have a "few" more proc heals and such, but I would love to have that stoneskin, just make ours reflect damage at 10 points per level.gl on your journey, im staying evil : )Inhumanus Nex

11-19-2007, 06:01 AM	#12
MadLuna Loremaster Join Date: Nov 2004 Location: Sweden Posts: 73	I did the opposite thing nearly a year ago; I betrayed at lvl70 to become a inquisitor due to there being so many templars in my guild/server and that I wanted to test the other side of the fence after being a templar from start of EQ2 plus that I thought it would help with my questing. My personal experience is that templars have more healing tools and in raw heals are better than an inquisitor, especially since templars get nice AA healing bonuses. There are literally no AA that increase healing for a inquisitor apart from getting better timers on emergency heals and faster rez capability. Going the AGI tree and getting the ability to shield your tank is a poor substitute for stoneskin but helps a bit. At first I felt like I was a very bad healer but then I realized that you have to use your debuffs and some of the attack spells alot more since they contain useful stuff that helps keep your tank up by lowering the mobs stats and damage values. That helped a bit but you have to be more pro-active as healer and to be honest more on your toes then as a templar. For me this was refreshing and more interesting plus that I fill a nice niche on raids, even though I no longer are competing to be in the no 1 spot on the healing parse I can also solo or duo quest alot better than as a templar due to my better dps values and the battle cleric tree really gives you the option to melee or use spells as the situation dictates plus that you get some better migitation, which can alos be useful on raids to stay alive or help with trash mobs.

11-20-2007, 06:08 PM	#13
juzamak General Join Date: Feb 2006 Posts: 62	I'm glad you like being a Templar but hell, I solo healed CMM on a 4 person group to get SOD updates with no problems. Healing with a Templar might be easier, sure but I haven't seen any content that one healer can solo heal and the others can't. I've been tempted to betray myself but it's not for the healing. It's for Sanctuary, Benediction and now Repent (ok Repent is a heal lol).

11-20-2007, 09:21 PM	#14
Larcain Loremaster Join Date: Feb 2005 Posts: 45	I betrayed after level 70 from Inq to Temp. I disagree that Inquisitors are subpar. The Inquisitor that we had in our guild, Quabi, was one of the best healers I've ever seen. Templars ARE healing machines however. In a raid, we basically only have one debuff ( involuntary healing and mark I count as heals, not debuffs). One thing I will caution you about in regards to the change: the balance between and inquisitor and a templar is one of mana. An inquisitor will only run out of power in rare cases. When i first became a templar, I had to learn to not spam heal like I did as an inquisitor. Its not hard to heal as a temp as we have about 5 billion ways to heal and most of them are low power usage. __________________