str and int aa lines ? why are they not worth it ?

Angelisdarker · 10-27-2007, 02:37 PM

bladesing, bladeturn, minstrel's aria, and minstrel's melody

are these troubador aa's not worth any thing ....becuase i may be mistaken in hinking a troubadors main purpuse is group support so why ievery onefocusing on dps .... thats a solo tactic is it not ...

or are these just so terrible that they dont increase the group alot better

Mildavyn · 10-27-2007, 03:00 PM

Angelisdarker wrote:

bladesing, bladeturn, minstrel's aria, and minstrel's melody
are these troubador aa's not worth any thing ....becuase i may be mistaken in hinking a troubadors main purpuse is group support so why ievery onefocusing on dps .... thats a solo tactic is it not ...
or are these just so terrible that they dont increase the group alot better

Bladesing and Bladeturn between the two of them, add up to about 30 STR and STA when you're raiding. This is because no one bothers with Baletic Avoidance. Points spent there are completely wasted.

Minstrel's Aria and Minstrel's Melody. One buffs Dove Song, which alot of Troubadors refuse to play at all, and really, Dove Song is good enough as it is. The other increases Haste, which quite often doesn't get played in a raid group and has such a small impact on overall DPS that it's hardly worth it.

Now for the REAL reason why STR and INT lines aren't taken for DPS. There are two of them, Fortismo (STA-line Double-attack) and Don't Kill the Messenger (WIS line final, 7.5% crits) Either one of these will increase DPS more than all four of the STR/INT passive buffs combined. INT and STR dont suck, just that WIS and STA are MUCH better.

missing_peace · 10-27-2007, 03:17 PM

The problem is that these achievements are weak in several areas. Together, these weaknesses make them far less attractive than the alternatives.

Each of these achievements only affects a single buff. Despite the gereral nature of the description, there is only one buff that corresponds to each achievement. Minstrel's Aris increases 'Bard group songs that affect combat or casting skills' but it only changes the magical boon line of buffs (end ability is dove song). Bladeturn affects 'songs that increase avoidance skills', but again that only helps the insatiable ardor line (ends in balletic avoidance.) So, in general the return per point is kindof low.

In addition to the above, the returns are a percentage of the current skill. It may be necessary to spend many achievement points before getting any visible increase in the affected skills. This again means that the return per point invested is low.

Other classes can already buff many of these skills better than a troubadour. Self buffs and offensive/defensive abilities for other classes can already increase skill far higher than troubadour can. Eventually, you will reach the point of diminishing returns making each point spent in these lines even less valuable.

Other achievements are just better. Minstrel's Melody will increase the haste buff for bards, but the return per point is far less than taking the stamina line and putting a full eight points into fortissimo. DKTM is still the only end ability worth taking for solo, group and raiding.

All of these points taken together are why these particular achievements are rarely chosen by players. For a solution you either have to change the buff so that the achievement is useful or change the achievement itself. In their current state, I see no reason to choose those achievement lines.

Angelisdarker · 10-27-2007, 03:19 PM

thanks thats the answer i was looking for

*^_^*

10-27-2007, 03:00 PM	#2
Mildavyn Loremaster Join Date: Dec 2004 Posts: 1,301	Angelisdarker wrote: bladesing, bladeturn, minstrel's aria, and minstrel's melody are these troubador aa's not worth any thing ....becuase i may be mistaken in hinking a troubadors main purpuse is group support so why ievery onefocusing on dps .... thats a solo tactic is it not ... or are these just so terrible that they dont increase the group alot better Bladesing and Bladeturn between the two of them, add up to about 30 STR and STA when you're raiding. This is because no one bothers with Baletic Avoidance. Points spent there are completely wasted. Minstrel's Aria and Minstrel's Melody. One buffs Dove Song, which alot of Troubadors refuse to play at all, and really, Dove Song is good enough as it is. The other increases Haste, which quite often doesn't get played in a raid group and has such a small impact on overall DPS that it's hardly worth it. Now for the REAL reason why STR and INT lines aren't taken for DPS. There are two of them, Fortismo (STA-line Double-attack) and Don't Kill the Messenger (WIS line final, 7.5% crits) Either one of these will increase DPS more than all four of the STR/INT passive buffs combined. INT and STR dont suck, just that WIS and STA are MUCH better. __________________ Paikis, Troubador Ashk, Guardian Sslyth, Necromancer Mirbolt, Shadowknight Mildayvin, Assasin Verminius, Defiler

10-27-2007, 02:37 PM	#1
Angelisdarker Loremaster Join Date: Oct 2007 Posts: 2	bladesing, bladeturn, minstrel's aria, and minstrel's melody are these troubador aa's not worth any thing ....becuase i may be mistaken in hinking a troubadors main purpuse is group support so why ievery onefocusing on dps .... thats a solo tactic is it not ... or are these just so terrible that they dont increase the group alot better

10-27-2007, 03:17 PM	#3
missing_peace Loremaster Join Date: Nov 2004 Posts: 90	The problem is that these achievements are weak in several areas. Together, these weaknesses make them far less attractive than the alternatives. Each of these achievements only affects a single buff. Despite the gereral nature of the description, there is only one buff that corresponds to each achievement. Minstrel's Aris increases 'Bard group songs that affect combat or casting skills' but it only changes the magical boon line of buffs (end ability is dove song). Bladeturn affects 'songs that increase avoidance skills', but again that only helps the insatiable ardor line (ends in balletic avoidance.) So, in general the return per point is kindof low. In addition to the above, the returns are a percentage of the current skill. It may be necessary to spend many achievement points before getting any visible increase in the affected skills. This again means that the return per point invested is low. Other classes can already buff many of these skills better than a troubadour. Self buffs and offensive/defensive abilities for other classes can already increase skill far higher than troubadour can. Eventually, you will reach the point of diminishing returns making each point spent in these lines even less valuable. Other achievements are just better. Minstrel's Melody will increase the haste buff for bards, but the return per point is far less than taking the stamina line and putting a full eight points into fortissimo. DKTM is still the only end ability worth taking for solo, group and raiding. All of these points taken together are why these particular achievements are rarely chosen by players. For a solution you either have to change the buff so that the achievement is useful or change the achievement itself. In their current state, I see no reason to choose those achievement lines.

10-27-2007, 03:19 PM	#4
Angelisdarker Loremaster Join Date: Oct 2007 Posts: 2	thanks thats the answer i was looking for ^_^