Two Rangers DPS Differences

Teneann · 10-19-2007, 04:22 PM

First off for the record want to state that both Rangers being compared are in the same guild and usually in the same group for raids, but yet, ranger B does approximately 200-500 DPS more than Ranger A.... This is something which has been bugging both rangers for a long while... The only real difference we can notice is Ranger B has100AA Ranger A has 98AA, Ranger A went AGI INT, Ranger B went STR AGI and Ranger B has about 4 more master level spells. Both are similar with Range haste and both have same bow... Ranger A has DW combo while Ranger B has 1HS/ Shield Combo.

Basically, both are geared close to each other. These are stats of both...

Ranger A Ranger B

Hps 7200+ 6600+

Power 6200+ 5700+

ATK 1500+ 1350+

Mit 43 43

STR 630+ 530+

AGI 440+ 370+

STA 430+ 380+

INT 130+ 120+

Wis 60+ 110+

The main question which is bothering us is how can Ranger A be doing less DPS.... could one problem be how the CA'S are setup on Hotbars? Both Rangers are pretty good overall.... At times Ranger A can spike a LOT higher DPS than Ranger B.... but overall Ranger B does more DPS either ZW or on a per mob basis.... Any suggestions or thoughts would be appreciated..... if more infor is needed, will gladly add that as it is gathered.

Kaleyen · 10-19-2007, 04:38 PM

Which bow are you both using.Which Arrows does A use and what arrows does B useWhat are A and B's EoF AA'sWhat poisons does A use what poisons does B use.

Teneann · 10-19-2007, 04:49 PM

We are both using Rigid Scale Bows

The arrows we use are the same... Usually adamantine Bodkin or Tender Arrows for named mobs.

Poisons we are using is about the same... depends on class leader for who uses which Poison on any given raid... so is a moot point overall... meaning we will use same poisons but on differing nights.... but DPS still stays separated by range

EOF AA... both have Double Arrow Tree maxxed out with exception of stream of arrows. Ranger A has maxxed out Conservation line with 5 caustic, 5 fettering, 5 ancillary, Ranger B has a mish mash of AA for Hook arrow and conservation, and both have focus fire maxxed and some in pathfinding.

Kaleyen · 10-19-2007, 04:54 PM

Well if all things are equal it's play style then.The difference is CA order between A and B and how good of a feel for auto attacking between CAs and what not.

BigChiefJJ · 10-19-2007, 06:03 PM

Next question would be potions, adornments, set pieces and individual buffs in raid. Is Ranger B using GM tactics and Ranger A not? Does Ranger B have more + crit chance on his gear than Ranger A? Does Ranger B have different equipment setup that allows for faster recast of more than just RoA and Snipers? Does Ranger B have more permanent + DPS mods and Ranger A have more temp DPS mods? Do you both have the same single target buffs on you?

You really need to get into ACT and see the differences zone wide between the two and see where the difference is coming from? Does Ranger B have a higher hit % than Ranger A possibly from more +ranged modifiers? Does one have more items that proc from ranged attacks than the other?

Ranja · 10-19-2007, 06:56 PM

Teneann wrote:

First off for the record want to state that both Rangers being compared are in the same guild and usually in the same group for raids, but yet, ranger B does approximately 200-500 DPS more than Ranger A.... This is something which has been bugging both rangers for a long while... The only real difference we can notice is Ranger B has100AA Ranger A has 98AA, Ranger A went AGI INT, Ranger B went STR AGI and Ranger B has about 4 more master level spells. Both are similar with Range haste and both have same bow... Ranger A has DW combo while Ranger B has 1HS/ Shield Combo.
Basically, both are geared close to each other. These are stats of both...
                                                       Ranger A                                                                           Ranger B
Hps                                                    7200+                                                                                6600+
Power                                              6200+                                                                                5700+
ATK                                                    1500+                                                                                1350+
Mit                                                        43                                                                                        43
STR                                                    630+                                                                                   530+
AGI                                                    440+                                                                                    370+
STA                                                    430+                                                                                    380+
INT                                                    130+                                                                                     120+
Wis                                                     60+                                                                                      110+
The main question which is bothering us is how can Ranger A be doing less DPS.... could one problem be how the CA'S are setup on Hotbars? Both Rangers are pretty good overall.... At times Ranger A can spike a LOT higher DPS than Ranger B.... but overall Ranger B does more DPS either ZW or on a per mob basis.... Any suggestions or thoughts would be appreciated..... if more infor is needed, will gladly add that as it is gathered.

!00 strength. There is your difference right there. IF all else is equal, get your strength the same and see. IF it is still equal then it is because of your CA order. I would start with your strength and then compare your CA orders. Then also compare your +ranged skill and to hit percentages.

Gareorn · 10-19-2007, 07:02 PM

The problem is not STR. The higher DPS is going to the one with the lower STR. The stat not shown that would make a huge impact is +DPS.

Giland · 10-19-2007, 07:42 PM

What spells is it that ranger B has mastered that ranger A does not ?Are the ones that are not mastered, adept 3?Who is in the group, and are they casting any single target buffs ?

hawk987 · 10-20-2007, 01:28 AM

If buffs/masters/bows are = and the only variable is gear/skill, then its obvious if the ranger with better gear is looseing, then he lacks the skill. Most likely he isnt timing his auto atks or is just auto atking. Download ACT compare DPS breakdowns and youl answer your own question.

Deterre · 10-20-2007, 04:01 AM

None of that stuff could explain the difference. Ranger A just sucks as a ranger, and doesn't know how to play properly.

Beneld · 10-20-2007, 10:22 AM

ranger A take lessons from ranger b nuff said

Beldin_ · 10-20-2007, 12:11 PM

Teneann wrote:

The only real difference we can notice is Ranger B has100AA Ranger A has 98AA, Ranger A went AGI INT, Ranger B went STR AGI and Ranger B has about 4 more master level spells. Both are similar with Range haste and both have same bow... Ranger A has DW combo while Ranger B has 1HS/ Shield Combo.

STR line for the win SMILEY

Sorry .. i couldn't resist

pseudocide · 10-20-2007, 01:18 PM

what does their group typically look like? is there an illusionist giving ranger B illusory arm? does ranger A have stupid EoF aas? what is their unbuffed DPS and haste?

look at both rangers parses and compare their outgoing, are they doing the same % from autoattack? is ranger A underusing or overusing certain CAs compared to ranger B?

edit: also what weapons/shield do they use?

Teneann · 10-20-2007, 04:09 PM

Okay, from discussing with other Ranger.... Will try to answer questions.....

Come to find out Several CA for Ranger B are master level while Ranger A the same spells are AD3. (Which is the only reason that we come up with for the difference in DPS between us)

Another possibility is Ranger B has been playing Ranger nonstop since EQ2 came out while Ranger A has only been playing this class again Full Time since July... Played another scout class the past two years since Desert of Flames came out.

Weapons Ranger A is using are SoD and vampiric axe of balance Rigid Scale Bow

Weapons Ranger B is Vilucides sword of shielding and shield of the white dragon (no luck on Buckler of the howler yet) Rigid Scale Bow

In raids both are typically in the same group with basically self buffs....( we call it the scrub group) Occasionally we get in group with illusionist, inquis, DIrge (DPS group) but mostly just our buffs and such. Please keep in mind both have had high parses somewhere in region of 2700DPS... Just trying to figure out how both can be more consistent... and it keeps going back to the masters both have or do not have...

thanks

BigChiefJJ · 10-20-2007, 04:24 PM

Proper timing of your temp buffs could be another thing that is causing the differences - are you getting your focus cycle in with dispatch? are you both using killing instincts and Honed reflexes the same amount of time? Is one of the Masters Ranger A missing his offensive stance?

Again, I highly recomend running ACT yourself and looking at what the individual damage differences are including the number of hits and damage from each CA.

Even though Ranger A took the Int line his int is only 10 more than Ranger B - there looks to be some major gear differences here pretty much across the board as Ranger B has much less stats than ranger A and therefore could be using gear that has secondary benefits (+ranged or procs) over just plain stat gear.

Deterre · 10-21-2007, 05:49 AM

Are you both using bodkins, or just you? You guys should probably both use fieldpoints.However, I still believe that ranger A just doesn't know how to play.Next time you two are raiding together, look at the damage pie chart after the raid. See how many % of the damage comes from auto attack in both cases. If I'm right, ranger B has a higher portion of his damage from auto attack.

Shaulin Dolamite · 10-21-2007, 02:17 PM

There can never be a complete answer to this post. Skill is the biggest factor to any question of this nature and that cant have a numeric value assigned to it. : ) Fortinately for our class, gear isnt everything. Has alot to do with hitting the very high end of our class, but again you can have all the best gear in game you will never hit those 4-6k parses without alot of skill to use the equipment.

The ranger class is all about timing, fitting as much as you can inbetween bow auto attack, but without delaying bow auto attacks : )

EQ2Magroo · 10-21-2007, 05:18 PM

Ranger A should clearly be wiping the floor with Ranger B based on stats and AA.Sure, B has more masters but I doubt this would explain it, although it might help him draw level I suppose. That's assuming of course that they are both using AD3 for their non master spells. But I bet if Ranger A examines the damage from his AD3 spell, it will be quite close to Ranger B's master spell due to A's much higher STR.Maybe one of them is in defensive stance or has cast his offensive stance before maxing out his STR ?It could also be Focus Aim. Do they both have that as M2 ? Are they both using it ?You don't mention DPS/Haste buffs. DPS buffs can make a big difference to AA, and as they are using a nice high hitting bow then this could explain the difference.The only way to find out for sure what's going on here is to grab an ACT parse from both of them and post them for comparison.The parse info will let you get to the bottom of this in about 30 seconds.

xandez · 10-22-2007, 06:00 AM

i could only think of lack of (or improper) using of focus aim (both have this at M2, right?) since even spamming CA:s would results not missing that much autoattacks... of course it would decrease your DPS, but... shrug. and of course the DPS buffage by adornments and eq, also with CA and maybe other buffs aswell?? This could be it. Pretty much the same thoughts as the previous poster. Cant think of anything else which would matter.++Xan

jarlaxle8 · 10-22-2007, 07:22 AM

As others have mentioned, grab ACT and compare too see where the difference comes from. The only thing that may be hard to figure out with ACT is proper use of Focus Aim. The 2 Rangers should discuss when they use it and what CA order they doing.

Reidus · 10-26-2007, 07:36 PM

I cannot disagree with any of the advice posted above but I can offer a possibility from my own experiences. I had a very hard time timing CAs between my auto attacks. That is until i got Bazkul and started using Umbral Darknesses. The partical affect of the darknesses made it easier for me to time my CAs. Maybe Ranger B is better at that. Also, you might explain to Ranger A that depending on group configuration this timing will change. Every once in a while I notice difficulties with timing my CAs and if I stop using honed for a bit i figure out the rythmn and then start using it again. Just a thought. I hope he figures it out and I applaud you for helping the team. I was in two very good raid guilds and noone bothered to explain to me how to time CAs. While the second raid guild did tell me that I was not using my auto attacks properly the Class Leader refused to explain it to me. One of the reasons I am not with them anymore.

Teneann · 10-27-2007, 10:46 AM

First off, thanks for all the advice to try to figure this out..... Have a bit more info from both...

DPS mods Ranger A 25 (Unless lucky with Mischief cloak) Ranger B 35+

Haste Ranger A 70 Ranger B 90+

Ranger B has both stances Master Ranger A just has AD3.

Additionally Ranger B has more fabled pieces of Armor IE: KoS and EoF... while Ranger A just has EoF... So Ranger A is missing out on a few key pieces of Fabled gear which is why some of his stats appeared so skewed...

Though after a respec, both Ranger A and Ranger B are doing better dps... The difference is not as large as it once was. Ranger A had gone all the way down in the Conservation line while Ranger B just had 5 in caustic.

Everyone keeps talking timing of CA.... Does it matter how you have the Melee vs Ranged arts in your hotbar moreso than how fast you can click the hotkey or mouseover? Both Ranger A and Ranger B were taking a approach of mashing the buttons as they pop up.... both standing in the sweet spot to utilize both Melee and Ranged CA.

Ranger A is now doing the following..... Leads off with Ranged CA, then when all grey out hit a Melee CA, then right away hit Ranged auto attack.... then hit the ranged CA as they pop up. He also has rearranged his hotbar from left to right.... Fastest cast to slowest cast, which seemed to help. Both Rangers DPS seems to have increased to 1800-2800 per fight....

So in closing, just want to thank EVERYONE for the advice and constructive comments that have been posted to help get these two rangers doing more Optimum DPS for the betterment of Guild and most definitely CLASS

Deterre · 10-27-2007, 11:19 AM

I generally start off with intoxication and the poison debuff and mortal reminder. Then I stand at the sweet spot and cast ranged CAs, using auto attack whenever possible. When I'm out of ranged CAs, I cast melee CAs, timing them in between ranged auto attacks.

10-19-2007, 04:38 PM	#2
Kaleyen Loremaster Join Date: Nov 2004 Location: kk thx la~ Posts: 1,341	Which bow are you both using.Which Arrows does A use and what arrows does B useWhat are A and B's EoF AA'sWhat poisons does A use what poisons does B use. __________________ Blaye \| 80 Guardian \| Leader of Anomaly

10-19-2007, 04:54 PM	#4
Kaleyen Loremaster Join Date: Nov 2004 Location: kk thx la~ Posts: 1,341	Well if all things are equal it's play style then.The difference is CA order between A and B and how good of a feel for auto attacking between CAs and what not. __________________ Blaye \| 80 Guardian \| Leader of Anomaly

10-19-2007, 06:56 PM	#6
Ranja Loremaster Join Date: Feb 2005 Posts: 1,657	Teneann wrote: First off for the record want to state that both Rangers being compared are in the same guild and usually in the same group for raids, but yet, ranger B does approximately 200-500 DPS more than Ranger A.... This is something which has been bugging both rangers for a long while... The only real difference we can notice is Ranger B has100AA Ranger A has 98AA, Ranger A went AGI INT, Ranger B went STR AGI and Ranger B has about 4 more master level spells. Both are similar with Range haste and both have same bow... Ranger A has DW combo while Ranger B has 1HS/ Shield Combo. Basically, both are geared close to each other. These are stats of both... Ranger A Ranger B Hps 7200+ 6600+ Power 6200+ 5700+ ATK 1500+ 1350+ Mit 43 43 STR 630+ 530+ AGI 440+ 370+ STA 430+ 380+ INT 130+ 120+ Wis 60+ 110+ The main question which is bothering us is how can Ranger A be doing less DPS.... could one problem be how the CA'S are setup on Hotbars? Both Rangers are pretty good overall.... At times Ranger A can spike a LOT higher DPS than Ranger B.... but overall Ranger B does more DPS either ZW or on a per mob basis.... Any suggestions or thoughts would be appreciated..... if more infor is needed, will gladly add that as it is gathered. !00 strength. There is your difference right there. IF all else is equal, get your strength the same and see. IF it is still equal then it is because of your CA order. I would start with your strength and then compare your CA orders. Then also compare your +ranged skill and to hit percentages. __________________ Elbryan, 90 Half-elf Ranger Thoghmor, 70 Troll Bruiser Rotir, 90 Dark Elf Swash Terrano, 82 Dark Elf Dirge Aymon, 90, Barbarian Shadowknight The Destroyer of Worlds: http://s7.gladiatus.com/game/c.php?uid=84341

10-19-2007, 07:02 PM	#7
Gareorn Loremaster Join Date: Nov 2004 Posts: 1,144	The problem is not STR. The higher DPS is going to the one with the lower STR. The stat not shown that would make a huge impact is +DPS. __________________ Leader of the vast right-wing conspiricy... Hiding from the world's smartest woman in a bunker under a Hooter's restaurant.

10-20-2007, 10:22 AM	#11
Beneld General Join Date: Nov 2004 Location: Mississippi Posts: 11	ranger A take lessons from ranger b nuff said __________________

10-19-2007, 04:22 PM	#1
Teneann Loremaster Join Date: Nov 2004 Posts: 18	First off for the record want to state that both Rangers being compared are in the same guild and usually in the same group for raids, but yet, ranger B does approximately 200-500 DPS more than Ranger A.... This is something which has been bugging both rangers for a long while... The only real difference we can notice is Ranger B has100AA Ranger A has 98AA, Ranger A went AGI INT, Ranger B went STR AGI and Ranger B has about 4 more master level spells. Both are similar with Range haste and both have same bow... Ranger A has DW combo while Ranger B has 1HS/ Shield Combo. Basically, both are geared close to each other. These are stats of both... Ranger A Ranger B Hps 7200+ 6600+ Power 6200+ 5700+ ATK 1500+ 1350+ Mit 43 43 STR 630+ 530+ AGI 440+ 370+ STA 430+ 380+ INT 130+ 120+ Wis 60+ 110+ The main question which is bothering us is how can Ranger A be doing less DPS.... could one problem be how the CA'S are setup on Hotbars? Both Rangers are pretty good overall.... At times Ranger A can spike a LOT higher DPS than Ranger B.... but overall Ranger B does more DPS either ZW or on a per mob basis.... Any suggestions or thoughts would be appreciated..... if more infor is needed, will gladly add that as it is gathered.

10-19-2007, 04:49 PM	#3
Teneann Loremaster Join Date: Nov 2004 Posts: 18	We are both using Rigid Scale Bows The arrows we use are the same... Usually adamantine Bodkin or Tender Arrows for named mobs. Poisons we are using is about the same... depends on class leader for who uses which Poison on any given raid... so is a moot point overall... meaning we will use same poisons but on differing nights.... but DPS still stays separated by range EOF AA... both have Double Arrow Tree maxxed out with exception of stream of arrows. Ranger A has maxxed out Conservation line with 5 caustic, 5 fettering, 5 ancillary, Ranger B has a mish mash of AA for Hook arrow and conservation, and both have focus fire maxxed and some in pathfinding.

10-19-2007, 06:03 PM	#5
BigChiefJJ Loremaster Join Date: Feb 2006 Posts: 415	Next question would be potions, adornments, set pieces and individual buffs in raid. Is Ranger B using GM tactics and Ranger A not? Does Ranger B have more + crit chance on his gear than Ranger A? Does Ranger B have different equipment setup that allows for faster recast of more than just RoA and Snipers? Does Ranger B have more permanent + DPS mods and Ranger A have more temp DPS mods? Do you both have the same single target buffs on you? You really need to get into ACT and see the differences zone wide between the two and see where the difference is coming from? Does Ranger B have a higher hit % than Ranger A possibly from more +ranged modifiers? Does one have more items that proc from ranged attacks than the other?

10-19-2007, 07:42 PM	#8
Giland Tester Join Date: Mar 2005 Posts: 323	What spells is it that ranger B has mastered that ranger A does not ?Are the ones that are not mastered, adept 3?Who is in the group, and are they casting any single target buffs ?

10-20-2007, 01:28 AM	#9
hawk987 Loremaster Join Date: Jul 2005 Posts: 35	If buffs/masters/bows are = and the only variable is gear/skill, then its obvious if the ranger with better gear is looseing, then he lacks the skill. Most likely he isnt timing his auto atks or is just auto atking. Download ACT compare DPS breakdowns and youl answer your own question.

10-20-2007, 04:01 AM	#10
Deterre General Join Date: Apr 2007 Posts: 341	None of that stuff could explain the difference. Ranger A just sucks as a ranger, and doesn't know how to play properly.

10-20-2007, 12:11 PM	#12
Beldin_ Loremaster Join Date: Nov 2004 Posts: 3,343	Teneann wrote: The only real difference we can notice is Ranger B has100AA Ranger A has 98AA, Ranger A went AGI INT, Ranger B went STR AGI and Ranger B has about 4 more master level spells. Both are similar with Range haste and both have same bow... Ranger A has DW combo while Ranger B has 1HS/ Shield Combo. STR line for the win Sorry .. i couldn't resist __________________

10-20-2007, 01:18 PM	#13
pseudocide Loremaster Join Date: Nov 2004 Posts: 244	what does their group typically look like? is there an illusionist giving ranger B illusory arm? does ranger A have stupid EoF aas? what is their unbuffed DPS and haste? look at both rangers parses and compare their outgoing, are they doing the same % from autoattack? is ranger A underusing or overusing certain CAs compared to ranger B? edit: also what weapons/shield do they use? __________________

10-20-2007, 04:09 PM	#14
Teneann Loremaster Join Date: Nov 2004 Posts: 18	Okay, from discussing with other Ranger.... Will try to answer questions..... Come to find out Several CA for Ranger B are master level while Ranger A the same spells are AD3. (Which is the only reason that we come up with for the difference in DPS between us) Another possibility is Ranger B has been playing Ranger nonstop since EQ2 came out while Ranger A has only been playing this class again Full Time since July... Played another scout class the past two years since Desert of Flames came out. Weapons Ranger A is using are SoD and vampiric axe of balance Rigid Scale Bow Weapons Ranger B is Vilucides sword of shielding and shield of the white dragon (no luck on Buckler of the howler yet) Rigid Scale Bow In raids both are typically in the same group with basically self buffs....( we call it the scrub group) Occasionally we get in group with illusionist, inquis, DIrge (DPS group) but mostly just our buffs and such. Please keep in mind both have had high parses somewhere in region of 2700DPS... Just trying to figure out how both can be more consistent... and it keeps going back to the masters both have or do not have... thanks

10-20-2007, 04:24 PM	#15
BigChiefJJ Loremaster Join Date: Feb 2006 Posts: 415	Proper timing of your temp buffs could be another thing that is causing the differences - are you getting your focus cycle in with dispatch? are you both using killing instincts and Honed reflexes the same amount of time? Is one of the Masters Ranger A missing his offensive stance? Again, I highly recomend running ACT yourself and looking at what the individual damage differences are including the number of hits and damage from each CA. Even though Ranger A took the Int line his int is only 10 more than Ranger B - there looks to be some major gear differences here pretty much across the board as Ranger B has much less stats than ranger A and therefore could be using gear that has secondary benefits (+ranged or procs) over just plain stat gear.

10-21-2007, 05:49 AM	#16
Deterre General Join Date: Apr 2007 Posts: 341	Are you both using bodkins, or just you? You guys should probably both use fieldpoints.However, I still believe that ranger A just doesn't know how to play.Next time you two are raiding together, look at the damage pie chart after the raid. See how many % of the damage comes from auto attack in both cases. If I'm right, ranger B has a higher portion of his damage from auto attack.

10-21-2007, 02:17 PM	#17
Shaulin Dolamite Loremaster Join Date: Dec 2004 Posts: 158	There can never be a complete answer to this post. Skill is the biggest factor to any question of this nature and that cant have a numeric value assigned to it. : ) Fortinately for our class, gear isnt everything. Has alot to do with hitting the very high end of our class, but again you can have all the best gear in game you will never hit those 4-6k parses without alot of skill to use the equipment. The ranger class is all about timing, fitting as much as you can inbetween bow auto attack, but without delaying bow auto attacks : )

10-21-2007, 05:18 PM	#18
EQ2Magroo Loremaster Join Date: Oct 2006 Posts: 756	Ranger A should clearly be wiping the floor with Ranger B based on stats and AA.Sure, B has more masters but I doubt this would explain it, although it might help him draw level I suppose. That's assuming of course that they are both using AD3 for their non master spells. But I bet if Ranger A examines the damage from his AD3 spell, it will be quite close to Ranger B's master spell due to A's much higher STR.Maybe one of them is in defensive stance or has cast his offensive stance before maxing out his STR ?It could also be Focus Aim. Do they both have that as M2 ? Are they both using it ?You don't mention DPS/Haste buffs. DPS buffs can make a big difference to AA, and as they are using a nice high hitting bow then this could explain the difference.The only way to find out for sure what's going on here is to grab an ACT parse from both of them and post them for comparison.The parse info will let you get to the bottom of this in about 30 seconds.

10-22-2007, 06:00 AM	#19
xandez Loremaster Join Date: Nov 2004 Posts: 1,044	i could only think of lack of (or improper) using of focus aim (both have this at M2, right?) since even spamming CA:s would results not missing that much autoattacks... of course it would decrease your DPS, but... shrug. and of course the DPS buffage by adornments and eq, also with CA and maybe other buffs aswell?? This could be it. Pretty much the same thoughts as the previous poster. Cant think of anything else which would matter.++Xan __________________ One can survive everything, nowadays, except death, and live down everything except a good reputation.

10-22-2007, 07:22 AM	#20
jarlaxle8 General Join Date: Apr 2005 Posts: 512	As others have mentioned, grab ACT and compare too see where the difference comes from. The only thing that may be hard to figure out with ACT is proper use of Focus Aim. The 2 Rangers should discuss when they use it and what CA order they doing. __________________

10-26-2007, 07:36 PM	#21
Reidus Loremaster Join Date: Dec 2004 Posts: 4	I cannot disagree with any of the advice posted above but I can offer a possibility from my own experiences. I had a very hard time timing CAs between my auto attacks. That is until i got Bazkul and started using Umbral Darknesses. The partical affect of the darknesses made it easier for me to time my CAs. Maybe Ranger B is better at that. Also, you might explain to Ranger A that depending on group configuration this timing will change. Every once in a while I notice difficulties with timing my CAs and if I stop using honed for a bit i figure out the rythmn and then start using it again. Just a thought. I hope he figures it out and I applaud you for helping the team. I was in two very good raid guilds and noone bothered to explain to me how to time CAs. While the second raid guild did tell me that I was not using my auto attacks properly the Class Leader refused to explain it to me. One of the reasons I am not with them anymore.

10-27-2007, 10:46 AM	#22
Teneann Loremaster Join Date: Nov 2004 Posts: 18	First off, thanks for all the advice to try to figure this out..... Have a bit more info from both... DPS mods Ranger A 25 (Unless lucky with Mischief cloak) Ranger B 35+ Haste Ranger A 70 Ranger B 90+ Ranger B has both stances Master Ranger A just has AD3. Additionally Ranger B has more fabled pieces of Armor IE: KoS and EoF... while Ranger A just has EoF... So Ranger A is missing out on a few key pieces of Fabled gear which is why some of his stats appeared so skewed... Though after a respec, both Ranger A and Ranger B are doing better dps... The difference is not as large as it once was. Ranger A had gone all the way down in the Conservation line while Ranger B just had 5 in caustic. Everyone keeps talking timing of CA.... Does it matter how you have the Melee vs Ranged arts in your hotbar moreso than how fast you can click the hotkey or mouseover? Both Ranger A and Ranger B were taking a approach of mashing the buttons as they pop up.... both standing in the sweet spot to utilize both Melee and Ranged CA. Ranger A is now doing the following..... Leads off with Ranged CA, then when all grey out hit a Melee CA, then right away hit Ranged auto attack.... then hit the ranged CA as they pop up. He also has rearranged his hotbar from left to right.... Fastest cast to slowest cast, which seemed to help. Both Rangers DPS seems to have increased to 1800-2800 per fight.... So in closing, just want to thank EVERYONE for the advice and constructive comments that have been posted to help get these two rangers doing more Optimum DPS for the betterment of Guild and most definitely CLASS

10-27-2007, 11:19 AM	#23
Deterre General Join Date: Apr 2007 Posts: 341	I generally start off with intoxication and the poison debuff and mortal reminder. Then I stand at the sweet spot and cast ranged CAs, using auto attack whenever possible. When I'm out of ranged CAs, I cast melee CAs, timing them in between ranged auto attacks.