New haste round shield stacks with DT haste bracelet

Wulvereen · 10-18-2007, 01:03 PM

The new zone yielded a nice round shield that I noticed stacked with my DT reward bracelet. Any other items it stacks with ? Also would this be as good as the buckler of howler. DPS > Attack Speed ? Any comments would be appreciated.Assail

jarlaxle8 · 10-18-2007, 01:06 PM

Wulvereen wrote:

The new zone yielded a nice round shield that I noticed stacked with my DT reward bracelet. Any other items it stacks with ? Also would this be as good as the buckler of howler. DPS > Attack Speed ? Any comments would be appreciated.Assail

It would really help to answer your question if you provided some info about the new shield...

Elephanton · 10-18-2007, 01:13 PM

DPS definitely >>> Attack speed for rangers because our attack speed is self-buffed to the decent amount already.And due to diminished returns, adding +10 DPS has much better effect than adding +10 Attack Speed in this case.

Wulvereen · 10-18-2007, 02:17 PM

Sorry for being vague on the shield. SoF drop treasured trash mob + 25 attack speed 20 str 10 sta 20 agi 75 hlth 75 pwr 691 protection. The other item says increases attack speed by 23 so different description.Question was does the 25 constant attack speed beat out a procing dps buff. And ya diminishing returns turns 93 normal into 86 real attack speed. And I know our buffs put us way above both caps but just meant for a comparison on shields is all for dps. Howler buckler 27 str 27 sta 22 agi 155 hlth 25 pwr 972 magic poison5 parry 438 shield factor and chance to proc dps increase of 25 1.8 times per minute lasts 20 secs.Also can you explain why dps is greater than attack speed ? or what it modify's in comparison.Thanks a ton for responseAssail

Deterre · 10-18-2007, 02:36 PM

Wulvereen wrote:

Also can you explain why dps is greater than attack speed ? or what it modify's in comparison.

I'm not sure if I understood right, but DPS basically increases your auto attack damage by a certain %. For example 10 DPS = +12% auto attack damage. 200 DPS = +125% auto attack damage.

Ranja · 10-18-2007, 03:05 PM

Deterrent wrote:

Wulvereen wrote:
Also can you explain why dps is greater than attack speed ? or what it modify's in comparison.
I'm not sure if I understood right, but DPS basically increases your auto attack damage by a certain %. For example 10 DPS = +12% auto attack damage. 200 DPS = +125% auto attack damage.

In general, if you are starting out at 0 with each (dps and haste) then haste is the first thing you want to increase. This is because of proc mechanics. However, such is not the case for most classes. In our case, we can self buff our haste to 45 with M1 cloak of forest. Therefore, increasing haste would not give as much bang as increasing DPS from 0>10. For example, in my usual raid group I am with an illy. With thier haste buff I am at 131. If you count the time I pop focus and honed as well as when my agility ring procs, I am at or above 200. Anyhting higher than this is wasted. One can also argue that anything higher than 125 which is 100% haste is wasted. So increasing my haste in this situation is not the best use of my buffs. In contrast, I am sitting at 34 DPS (2 adorns, earring, shadow strider boots)This can be increase by 25 with the Marr cloak. For me, increasing my DPS from 34>44 is better than going haste from 131>156.So it all depends SMILEY

. Most evil classes buff DPS and good classes buff Haste. Therefore, evil always wants haste and good always wants DPS SMILEY

Wulvereen · 10-18-2007, 04:09 PM

You guys pretty much answered question. But in case you guys dont have howler buckler hey there is that crappy treasured shield ;P

Guitar_Guru · 10-18-2007, 06:37 PM

Just to add a little snippit, it does stack with the gauntlets. It ALSO stacks with the MC cape the adds atk speed. However, the cape does NOT stack with the gloves. So pick and choose wisely SMILEY

Balerius · 10-18-2007, 08:36 PM

ElephantonRU wrote:

DPS definitely >>> Attack speed for rangers because our attack speed is self-buffed to the decent amount already.And due to diminished returns, adding +10 DPS has much better effect than adding +10 Attack Speed in this case.

As a blanket statement, I disagree with this statement.

First, it's important to realize (not saying that you don't) that +haste and +dps modifiers are mathematically identical. Say you have a 9 sec bow that averages 3000 damage per shot with no haste/dps modifiers.

At 100% dps modifier, the bow would hit for 3000 x 2 = 6000 per 9 secs

At 100% haste modifier, the bow would hit for 3000 per 4.5 secs which is equal to 6000 per 9 secs.

The factor to be considered is proc rates. As you know, procs represent roughly (very roughly) 25% of our dps. Since the number of procs per minute is based on your unhastened bow speed, haste has the benefit of significantly incresing your procs per minute. DPS modifiers, of course, do not provide any bonus to actual procs per minute.

Now it's quite true that since we get our haste self buff that each point of dps modifier is worth incrementally more than each point of haste buff until the two (haste modifier and dps modifier) are equal due to the diminishing return curve of modifiers. But that's not the same as saying that "dps is more valuable to a ranger than haste". It all depends on how much haste and how much dps the modifiers will grant.

It takes a lot to overcome the significantly increased procs that haste between a value of 41 and 125 will give you. And it's actually quite trivial to compute the break point for when +dps modifiers become better than +haste modifiers. But the breakpoint is unique to each player and that's player's gear, etc.

The point I'm making is that you have to factor in the total haste and dps togther with procs before you can say at what point dps modifiers are better than haste modifiers. And it's not at 42 haste and 1 dps.

TerriBlades · 10-18-2007, 08:58 PM

Anyone wanna take bets on how long it take them to fix this? Or did I just miss the memo where they decided to let item haste stack with item haste?

Wulvereen · 10-18-2007, 11:56 PM

As far as it being nerfed who knows just thought i would give the fellow rangers a heads up is all. And ask a few questions that I had been pondering. Also what are some of your guys poison proc high hits ? Mine so far 1197 with reg caustic poison.Assail

Bre · 10-19-2007, 01:12 AM

http://forums.station.sony.com/eq2/...topic_id=384926

My guess on the reason it is stacking is because the effect isn't listed as Haste, it's listed as +25 Attack Speed.

Stats are 20 str 10 stam 20 agil 75 health and power 691 Protection +25 to Attack Speed

Brega - 70 Ranger, Test Server

Arleonenis · 10-19-2007, 02:17 PM

Whichever is better depend mostly on your raid setup, if you get illu in group its pointless but if you mostly run with dirge/coercer dps buffs and only self haste than haste shield.

So to sum it all up imho whichever is better is strictly situational and best is to have both and switch between them depending on your group setup SMILEY

Beneld · 10-20-2007, 10:31 AM

ive seen 2k+ procs with seeds

JAFO74 · 10-22-2007, 05:13 PM

Nerfed. Changed from +25 attack speed to haste. So bye to your 93% self buffed haste.

Iago

Mion da Peon · 10-22-2007, 06:57 PM

wow no way, bummer guys.

jarlaxle8 · 10-23-2007, 06:24 AM

Sucks, but the nerf incoming was kinda obvious. Well, at least it still serves as another option besides DT bracelet or gloves to get some decent haste.

Deterre · 10-23-2007, 10:39 AM

That update is coming to european servers today. I was really excited about the new shield until I read this SMILEY

Gareorn · 10-23-2007, 07:14 PM

JAFO74 wrote:

Nerfed. Changed from +25 attack speed to haste. So bye to your 93% self buffed haste.
Iago

That was subtle. lol

Ranja · 10-24-2007, 11:53 AM

Gareorn wrote:

JAFO74 wrote:
Nerfed. Changed from +25 attack speed to haste. So bye to your 93% self buffed haste.
Iago
That was subtle. lol

This is what I can't stand about the devs. They are mocking and insulting to their playerbase. It makes me think they are a bunch of kids that enjoy slinging insults at their playerbase. Someone really needs to give them a class on communication and PR. Every post I read from a red name has some kind of subtle insult and a mocking tone.Anyone remember "Some rangers felt it approrpiate to take advantage of the proc mechanics and exploited it by using slow delay weapons". I swear everytime I see a red name it is to comment on a meaningless post in a way that demeans and mocks the playerbase.

JAFO74 · 10-28-2007, 09:49 PM

Ranja wrote:

Gareorn wrote:
JAFO74 wrote:
Nerfed. Changed from +25 attack speed to haste. So bye to your 93% self buffed haste.
Iago
That was subtle. lol
This is what I can't stand about the devs. They are mocking and insulting to their playerbase. It makes me think they are a bunch of kids that enjoy slinging insults at their playerbase. Someone really needs to give them a class on communication and PR. Every post I read from a red name has some kind of subtle insult and a mocking tone.Anyone remember "Some rangers felt it approrpiate to take advantage of the proc mechanics and exploited it by using slow delay weapons". I swear everytime I see a red name it is to comment on a meaningless post in a way that demeans and mocks the playerbase.

I am not sure what you are getting at here. Are you thinking that I was a dev and was posting something to make fun of people, or is your post aimed at devs in general.

I am a 70 ranger on permafrost and have been playing since a couple of months after launch. I am as bummed about this as anyone especially since i forked out 5p for this shield the day sof went live as a supplement to my Buckler of the Howler. Now the shield is transmute fuel....

Anyway, it sucks it was nerfed. Sorry if I offended anyone by the way i posted it. Was just putting something up there to prevent anyone else from making the same mistake i did....

Iago

Ranja · 10-29-2007, 11:14 AM

JAFO74 wrote:

Ranja wrote:
Gareorn wrote:
JAFO74 wrote:
Nerfed. Changed from +25 attack speed to haste. So bye to your 93% self buffed haste.
Iago
That was subtle. lol
This is what I can't stand about the devs. They are mocking and insulting to their playerbase. It makes me think they are a bunch of kids that enjoy slinging insults at their playerbase. Someone really needs to give them a class on communication and PR. Every post I read from a red name has some kind of subtle insult and a mocking tone.Anyone remember "Some rangers felt it approrpiate to take advantage of the proc mechanics and exploited it by using slow delay weapons". I swear everytime I see a red name it is to comment on a meaningless post in a way that demeans and mocks the playerbase.
I am not sure what you are getting at here. Are you thinking that I was a dev and was posting something to make fun of people, or is your post aimed at devs in general.
I am a 70 ranger on permafrost and have been playing since a couple of months after launch. I am as bummed about this as anyone especially since i forked out 5p for this shield the day sof went live as a supplement to my Buckler of the Howler. Now the shield is transmute fuel....
Anyway, it sucks it was nerfed. Sorry if I offended anyone by the way i posted it. Was just putting something up there to prevent anyone else from making the same mistake i did....
Iago

It was directed at the devs.

10-18-2007, 01:06 PM	#2
jarlaxle8 General Join Date: Apr 2005 Posts: 512	Wulvereen wrote: The new zone yielded a nice round shield that I noticed stacked with my DT reward bracelet. Any other items it stacks with ? Also would this be as good as the buckler of howler. DPS > Attack Speed ? Any comments would be appreciated.Assail It would really help to answer your question if you provided some info about the new shield... __________________

10-18-2007, 02:36 PM	#5
Deterre General Join Date: Apr 2007 Posts: 341	Wulvereen wrote: Also can you explain why dps is greater than attack speed ? or what it modify's in comparison. I'm not sure if I understood right, but DPS basically increases your auto attack damage by a certain %. For example 10 DPS = +12% auto attack damage. 200 DPS = +125% auto attack damage.

10-18-2007, 03:05 PM	#6
Ranja Loremaster Join Date: Feb 2005 Posts: 1,657	Deterrent wrote: Wulvereen wrote: Also can you explain why dps is greater than attack speed ? or what it modify's in comparison. I'm not sure if I understood right, but DPS basically increases your auto attack damage by a certain %. For example 10 DPS = +12% auto attack damage. 200 DPS = +125% auto attack damage. In general, if you are starting out at 0 with each (dps and haste) then haste is the first thing you want to increase. This is because of proc mechanics. However, such is not the case for most classes. In our case, we can self buff our haste to 45 with M1 cloak of forest. Therefore, increasing haste would not give as much bang as increasing DPS from 0>10. For example, in my usual raid group I am with an illy. With thier haste buff I am at 131. If you count the time I pop focus and honed as well as when my agility ring procs, I am at or above 200. Anyhting higher than this is wasted. One can also argue that anything higher than 125 which is 100% haste is wasted. So increasing my haste in this situation is not the best use of my buffs. In contrast, I am sitting at 34 DPS (2 adorns, earring, shadow strider boots)This can be increase by 25 with the Marr cloak. For me, increasing my DPS from 34>44 is better than going haste from 131>156.So it all depends . Most evil classes buff DPS and good classes buff Haste. Therefore, evil always wants haste and good always wants DPS __________________ Elbryan, 90 Half-elf Ranger Thoghmor, 70 Troll Bruiser Rotir, 90 Dark Elf Swash Terrano, 82 Dark Elf Dirge Aymon, 90, Barbarian Shadowknight The Destroyer of Worlds: http://s7.gladiatus.com/game/c.php?uid=84341

10-18-2007, 08:36 PM	#9
Balerius Loremaster Join Date: Nov 2004 Posts: 259	ElephantonRU wrote: DPS definitely >>> Attack speed for rangers because our attack speed is self-buffed to the decent amount already.And due to diminished returns, adding +10 DPS has much better effect than adding +10 Attack Speed in this case. As a blanket statement, I disagree with this statement. First, it's important to realize (not saying that you don't) that +haste and +dps modifiers are mathematically identical. Say you have a 9 sec bow that averages 3000 damage per shot with no haste/dps modifiers. At 100% dps modifier, the bow would hit for 3000 x 2 = 6000 per 9 secs At 100% haste modifier, the bow would hit for 3000 per 4.5 secs which is equal to 6000 per 9 secs. The factor to be considered is proc rates. As you know, procs represent roughly (very roughly) 25% of our dps. Since the number of procs per minute is based on your unhastened bow speed, haste has the benefit of significantly incresing your procs per minute. DPS modifiers, of course, do not provide any bonus to actual procs per minute. Now it's quite true that since we get our haste self buff that each point of dps modifier is worth incrementally more than each point of haste buff until the two (haste modifier and dps modifier) are equal due to the diminishing return curve of modifiers. But that's not the same as saying that "dps is more valuable to a ranger than haste". It all depends on how much haste and how much dps the modifiers will grant. It takes a lot to overcome the significantly increased procs that haste between a value of 41 and 125 will give you. And it's actually quite trivial to compute the break point for when +dps modifiers become better than +haste modifiers. But the breakpoint is unique to each player and that's player's gear, etc. The point I'm making is that you have to factor in the total haste and dps togther with procs before you can say at what point dps modifiers are better than haste modifiers. And it's not at 42 haste and 1 dps.

10-18-2007, 08:58 PM	#10
TerriBlades Loremaster Join Date: Nov 2004 Posts: 588	Anyone wanna take bets on how long it take them to fix this? Or did I just miss the memo where they decided to let item haste stack with item haste? __________________

10-18-2007, 01:03 PM	#1
Wulvereen Loremaster Join Date: Jan 2005 Posts: 18	The new zone yielded a nice round shield that I noticed stacked with my DT reward bracelet. Any other items it stacks with ? Also would this be as good as the buckler of howler. DPS > Attack Speed ? Any comments would be appreciated.Assail

10-18-2007, 01:13 PM	#3
Elephanton General Join Date: Sep 2006 Posts: 985	DPS definitely >>> Attack speed for rangers because our attack speed is self-buffed to the decent amount already.And due to diminished returns, adding +10 DPS has much better effect than adding +10 Attack Speed in this case.

10-18-2007, 02:17 PM	#4
Wulvereen Loremaster Join Date: Jan 2005 Posts: 18	Sorry for being vague on the shield. SoF drop treasured trash mob + 25 attack speed 20 str 10 sta 20 agi 75 hlth 75 pwr 691 protection. The other item says increases attack speed by 23 so different description.Question was does the 25 constant attack speed beat out a procing dps buff. And ya diminishing returns turns 93 normal into 86 real attack speed. And I know our buffs put us way above both caps but just meant for a comparison on shields is all for dps. Howler buckler 27 str 27 sta 22 agi 155 hlth 25 pwr 972 magic poison5 parry 438 shield factor and chance to proc dps increase of 25 1.8 times per minute lasts 20 secs.Also can you explain why dps is greater than attack speed ? or what it modify's in comparison.Thanks a ton for responseAssail

10-18-2007, 04:09 PM	#7
Wulvereen Loremaster Join Date: Jan 2005 Posts: 18	You guys pretty much answered question. But in case you guys dont have howler buckler hey there is that crappy treasured shield ;P

10-18-2007, 06:37 PM	#8
Guitar_Guru Loremaster Join Date: Apr 2005 Posts: 98	Just to add a little snippit, it does stack with the gauntlets. It ALSO stacks with the MC cape the adds atk speed. However, the cape does NOT stack with the gloves. So pick and choose wisely

10-18-2007, 11:56 PM	#11
Wulvereen Loremaster Join Date: Jan 2005 Posts: 18	As far as it being nerfed who knows just thought i would give the fellow rangers a heads up is all. And ask a few questions that I had been pondering. Also what are some of your guys poison proc high hits ? Mine so far 1197 with reg caustic poison.Assail

10-19-2007, 01:12 AM	#12
Bre General Join Date: Nov 2004 Posts: 366	http://forums.station.sony.com/eq2/...topic_id=384926 My guess on the reason it is stacking is because the effect isn't listed as Haste, it's listed as +25 Attack Speed. Stats are 20 str 10 stam 20 agil 75 health and power 691 Protection +25 to Attack Speed Brega - 70 Ranger, Test Server

10-19-2007, 02:17 PM	#13
Arleonenis Loremaster Join Date: Mar 2005 Posts: 98	Whichever is better depend mostly on your raid setup, if you get illu in group its pointless but if you mostly run with dirge/coercer dps buffs and only self haste than haste shield. So to sum it all up imho whichever is better is strictly situational and best is to have both and switch between them depending on your group setup

10-20-2007, 10:31 AM	#14
Beneld General Join Date: Nov 2004 Location: Mississippi Posts: 11	ive seen 2k+ procs with seeds __________________

10-22-2007, 05:13 PM	#15
JAFO74 Loremaster Join Date: May 2005 Posts: 79	Nerfed. Changed from +25 attack speed to haste. So bye to your 93% self buffed haste. Iago

10-22-2007, 06:57 PM	#16
Mion da Peon Loremaster Join Date: Dec 2004 Posts: 177	wow no way, bummer guys.

10-23-2007, 06:24 AM	#17
jarlaxle8 General Join Date: Apr 2005 Posts: 512	Sucks, but the nerf incoming was kinda obvious. Well, at least it still serves as another option besides DT bracelet or gloves to get some decent haste. __________________

10-23-2007, 10:39 AM	#18
Deterre General Join Date: Apr 2007 Posts: 341	That update is coming to european servers today. I was really excited about the new shield until I read this

10-23-2007, 07:14 PM	#19
Gareorn Loremaster Join Date: Nov 2004 Posts: 1,144	JAFO74 wrote: Nerfed. Changed from +25 attack speed to haste. So bye to your 93% self buffed haste. Iago That was subtle. lol __________________ Leader of the vast right-wing conspiricy... Hiding from the world's smartest woman in a bunker under a Hooter's restaurant.

10-24-2007, 11:53 AM	#20
Ranja Loremaster Join Date: Feb 2005 Posts: 1,657	Gareorn wrote: JAFO74 wrote: Nerfed. Changed from +25 attack speed to haste. So bye to your 93% self buffed haste. Iago That was subtle. lol This is what I can't stand about the devs. They are mocking and insulting to their playerbase. It makes me think they are a bunch of kids that enjoy slinging insults at their playerbase. Someone really needs to give them a class on communication and PR. Every post I read from a red name has some kind of subtle insult and a mocking tone.Anyone remember "Some rangers felt it approrpiate to take advantage of the proc mechanics and exploited it by using slow delay weapons". I swear everytime I see a red name it is to comment on a meaningless post in a way that demeans and mocks the playerbase. __________________ Elbryan, 90 Half-elf Ranger Thoghmor, 70 Troll Bruiser Rotir, 90 Dark Elf Swash Terrano, 82 Dark Elf Dirge Aymon, 90, Barbarian Shadowknight The Destroyer of Worlds: http://s7.gladiatus.com/game/c.php?uid=84341

10-28-2007, 09:49 PM	#21
JAFO74 Loremaster Join Date: May 2005 Posts: 79	Ranja wrote: Gareorn wrote: JAFO74 wrote: Nerfed. Changed from +25 attack speed to haste. So bye to your 93% self buffed haste. Iago That was subtle. lol This is what I can't stand about the devs. They are mocking and insulting to their playerbase. It makes me think they are a bunch of kids that enjoy slinging insults at their playerbase. Someone really needs to give them a class on communication and PR. Every post I read from a red name has some kind of subtle insult and a mocking tone.Anyone remember "Some rangers felt it approrpiate to take advantage of the proc mechanics and exploited it by using slow delay weapons". I swear everytime I see a red name it is to comment on a meaningless post in a way that demeans and mocks the playerbase. I am not sure what you are getting at here. Are you thinking that I was a dev and was posting something to make fun of people, or is your post aimed at devs in general. I am a 70 ranger on permafrost and have been playing since a couple of months after launch. I am as bummed about this as anyone especially since i forked out 5p for this shield the day sof went live as a supplement to my Buckler of the Howler. Now the shield is transmute fuel.... Anyway, it sucks it was nerfed. Sorry if I offended anyone by the way i posted it. Was just putting something up there to prevent anyone else from making the same mistake i did.... Iago

10-29-2007, 11:14 AM	#22
Ranja Loremaster Join Date: Feb 2005 Posts: 1,657	JAFO74 wrote: Ranja wrote: Gareorn wrote: JAFO74 wrote: Nerfed. Changed from +25 attack speed to haste. So bye to your 93% self buffed haste. Iago That was subtle. lol This is what I can't stand about the devs. They are mocking and insulting to their playerbase. It makes me think they are a bunch of kids that enjoy slinging insults at their playerbase. Someone really needs to give them a class on communication and PR. Every post I read from a red name has some kind of subtle insult and a mocking tone.Anyone remember "Some rangers felt it approrpiate to take advantage of the proc mechanics and exploited it by using slow delay weapons". I swear everytime I see a red name it is to comment on a meaningless post in a way that demeans and mocks the playerbase. I am not sure what you are getting at here. Are you thinking that I was a dev and was posting something to make fun of people, or is your post aimed at devs in general. I am a 70 ranger on permafrost and have been playing since a couple of months after launch. I am as bummed about this as anyone especially since i forked out 5p for this shield the day sof went live as a supplement to my Buckler of the Howler. Now the shield is transmute fuel.... Anyway, it sucks it was nerfed. Sorry if I offended anyone by the way i posted it. Was just putting something up there to prevent anyone else from making the same mistake i did.... Iago It was directed at the devs. __________________ Elbryan, 90 Half-elf Ranger Thoghmor, 70 Troll Bruiser Rotir, 90 Dark Elf Swash Terrano, 82 Dark Elf Dirge Aymon, 90, Barbarian Shadowknight The Destroyer of Worlds: http://s7.gladiatus.com/game/c.php?uid=84341