Shard of Fear : No mobs see invis.

Necodem · 10-04-2007, 08:38 AM

It's too easy to walk in this zone with a group stealth or invis, would be better to put all see invis/stealth ability.

Cusashorn · 10-04-2007, 08:58 AM

What the heck is wrong with you? You WANT more challenge?

Killerbee3000 · 10-04-2007, 08:58 AM

dunno if its much of an issue since everyone will want the exp form killing the mobs anyway once rok is out...

Necodem · 10-04-2007, 11:15 AM

Yes of course I want more challenge, btw the zone seems really easy.

Ookami-san · 10-04-2007, 11:50 AM

Cool.... since we're going to nerf the zone for stealth classes...

Let's make no taunts work in the zone... that'll effectively nerf the zone to tanks

Oh... and let's make it so that no heals work in the zone... that'll take care of the healers...

And we can't make sure all damage spells are 100% resisted... that should nerf the finger wagglers...

Oh... and let's make pets unsummonable in the zone and make debuffs impossible to land...

Did I miss anyone?

Necodem · 10-04-2007, 11:54 AM

The zone is way too easy, and with stealth pretty fast to clear.

Novusod · 10-04-2007, 12:05 PM

Why not just hide the loot in the trash mobs. Named only give AA and quest updates. If you want access to the zone's loot table you need to kill everything.

einar4 · 10-04-2007, 12:34 PM

Ookami-san wrote:

Cool.... since we're going to nerf the zone for stealth classes...
Let's make no taunts work in the zone... that'll effectively nerf the zone to tanks
Oh... and let's make it so that no heals work in the zone... that'll take care of the healers...
And we can't make sure all damage spells are 100% resisted... that should nerf the finger wagglers...
Oh... and let's make pets unsummonable in the zone and make debuffs impossible to land...
Did I miss anyone?

Well, lets see.

Taunts are contested skill checks

Healers can be stifled.

Damage spells can be resisted/mitigated

Pets can be killed

But stealth should be a get-through-the-zone-free card?

Freliant · 10-04-2007, 12:37 PM

Haven't been in the zone yet, but I for one do not intend on skipping trash, unless its a quick run. Once Rok comes out, I will not skip anything.

Runewind · 10-04-2007, 02:19 PM

Ikarri@Lucan DLere wrote:

Ookami-san wrote:
Cool.... since we're going to nerf the zone for stealth classes...
Let's make no taunts work in the zone... that'll effectively nerf the zone to tanks
Oh... and let's make it so that no heals work in the zone... that'll take care of the healers...
And we can't make sure all damage spells are 100% resisted... that should nerf the finger wagglers...
Oh... and let's make pets unsummonable in the zone and make debuffs impossible to land...
Did I miss anyone?
Well, lets see.
Taunts are contested skill checks
Healers can be stifled.
Damage spells can be resisted/mitigated
Pets can be killed
But stealth should be a get-through-the-zone-free card?

I think the issue was that the OP was suggesting making stealth USELESS in the zone, see?Darkhain@Venekor wrote:

It's too easy to walk in this zone with a group stealth or invis, would be better to put all see invis/stealth ability.

So putting SOME see invis mobs wouldn't be a bad idea but if you make them ALL see invis/stealth than stealth is useless which is what, I believe, Ookami was responding to.

Bre · 10-04-2007, 02:44 PM

SOE is aware of the lack of see invis mobs in the zone. I as a scout found it refreshing, but recognize and understand the need for see invis mobs. Although I do hope they don't go overboard with them. I don't think the zone is fully implimented yet, kind of a phase one thing right now imo.

Brega - 70 Ranger, Test Server

Kaiser Sigma · 10-04-2007, 02:47 PM

Novusod wrote:

Why not just hide the loot in the trash mobs. Named only give AA and quest updates. If you want access to the zone's loot table you need to kill everything.

Because trash mobs dropping loot is the worst idea ever. Look at Throne of New Tunaria as a fine example of how borked up the random system is. Stealth on some or all mobs is fine. As far as I recall, you couldn't stealth / invis in Nizara or Unrest and if the zone is as easy as they say then either trash sees stealth / invis or we have a new Nektropos Tribulation.

Morrias · 10-04-2007, 03:34 PM

Well, I dont think it will matter for a brawler or well, anyone that can run, those mobs hardly do any dmg, that zone seems WAY to easy..

Wilin · 10-04-2007, 04:45 PM

Novusod wrote:

Why not just hide the loot in the trash mobs. Named only give AA and quest updates. If you want access to the zone's loot table you need to kill everything.

You mean itemize all of the class armor on random mobs in the Plane of Fear so you have to kill all of the mobs to get all of the armor drops? That has never happened before...while they are at it, why don't they put each class'es armor on specific subsets of mobs. Nah... SMILEY

Cusashorn · 10-04-2007, 07:43 PM

The zone is still being reworked. the GM's have it set on easy right now to settle out some things.

Cocytus · 10-04-2007, 09:42 PM

Yeah, stealth is already pretty much useless in EQ2, why should we ever start making exceptions that make it useful?

Willias · 10-04-2007, 11:52 PM

wait, whatStealth is used for special attacks. Since there's group stealth, you can't have it be too useful in dungeon situations, or you just have people using stealth to get to named mobs while ignoring everything else.

Wilin · 10-05-2007, 12:38 PM

Willias@Unrest wrote:

wait, whatStealth is used for special attacks. Since there's group stealth, you can't have it be too useful in dungeon situations, or you just have people using stealth to get to named mobs while ignoring everything else.

Kinda like people using FD to get to named mobs while ignoring everything else. SMILEY

Aela@Test · 10-05-2007, 12:41 PM

Wilin wrote:

Willias@Unrest wrote:
wait, whatStealth is used for special attacks. Since there's group stealth, you can't have it be too useful in dungeon situations, or you just have people using stealth to get to named mobs while ignoring everything else.
Kinda like people using FD to get to named mobs while ignoring everything else. " width="15" height="15" />

So what classes get group FD?

I think that is more of the issue here. Not one person, but a group or a raid being able to do it.

Xanrn · 10-05-2007, 01:23 PM

Monks get Group FD on a 15 minute timer that has the habit of killing people.

Cusashorn · 10-05-2007, 02:19 PM

It's called Fall of the Phoenix. At master 1, it applies a 90% feign death success rate on each individual member of your group. People can still "Fall to the ground" while others successfully feign. Only monks get this skill, and it's a 15 minute timer. It also last 3 minutes and then you stand up. You can't use it to move an entire group past content.

Wilin · 10-05-2007, 03:03 PM

I'm not even talking about the monk's group FD. That will get you killed SMILEY

Oakum · 10-05-2007, 03:18 PM

Wilin wrote:

Willias@Unrest wrote:
wait, whatStealth is used for special attacks. Since there's group stealth, you can't have it be too useful in dungeon situations, or you just have people using stealth to get to named mobs while ignoring everything else.
Kinda like people using FD to get to named mobs while ignoring everything else. " width="15" height="15" />

While players do use FD to train groups/raids past mobs they don't want to or can't kill, their is always a chance of it failing for those with quick reuse timers or the player being stunned. Stealth and invis both remove any danger at all where the mobs can't see us until we want them to.

If you are not a brawler/sk/necro and want to use fd all you have to do is be a tinkerer for a secondary tradeskill.

Of course everyone over lvl 30 can stealth or invis with totems so thats even easier for anyone that wants to use them but doesn't have them as a spell/ca ability.

Ookami-san · 10-05-2007, 03:34 PM

Ikarri@Lucan DLere wrote:

Well, lets see.
Taunts are contested skill checks
Healers can be stifled.
Damage spells can be resisted/mitigated
Pets can be killed
But stealth should be a get-through-the-zone-free card?

Not saying stealth should be a get-through-the-zone-free card, but a little more use of a CLASS DEFINING skill would be nice for a change.

How often do you see people complaining the the mobs aren't immune to taunts, or the mobs aren't immune to DD spells or DoTs, or the zone is too easy because it allows conjurers to summon pets, etc.?!

I get sick of people without certain skills complaining that it makes things easier for those that have them. Guess what... if my swashy had taunts and could wear plate... it'd be EASIER for me to solo things. In fact, if I could play songs while wearing plate casting massive DDs while my pet pummeled things and I healed myself... that would make it easier too... oh wait... I can't do any of that stuff... so.... let's nerf the zone so no one else can heal, cast, summon, taunt or tank...

It'd be a nice change to see certain zones where certain classes or archtypes could shine. You don't tho... because of whiners... it's too easy (cry a river)... people can stealth thru (cry a river)... I want to be a class that doesn't have stealth (whine)... so why should anyone else be able to do things I can't (whine)...

So you can't do everything in the game.... SUCK IT UP! That's life. Find a class you like and play it.... if you want to try a different class... do it... just stop the whining!

Geez!

Sapphirius · 10-05-2007, 04:06 PM

Oakum wrote:

While players do use FD to train groups/raids past mobs they don't want to or can't kill, their is always a chance of it failing for those with quick reuse timers or the player being stunned. Stealth and invis both remove any danger at all where the mobs can't see us until we want them to.
If you are not a brawler/sk/necro and want to use fd all you have to do is be a tinkerer for a secondary tradeskill.
Of course everyone over lvl 30 can stealth or invis with totems so thats even easier for anyone that wants to use them but doesn't have them as a spell/ca ability.

TeeHee! That 4% failure rate gets me into more trouble than anything else in that game. The time I most need my FD is the time when that 4% decides it wants to play.

KBern · 10-05-2007, 04:14 PM

Ookami-san wrote:

Ikarri@Lucan DLere wrote:
Well, lets see.
Taunts are contested skill checks
Healers can be stifled.
Damage spells can be resisted/mitigated
Pets can be killed
But stealth should be a get-through-the-zone-free card?
Not saying stealth should be a get-through-the-zone-free card, but a little more use of a CLASS DEFINING skill would be nice for a change.
How often do you see people complaining the the mobs aren't immune to taunts, or the mobs aren't immune to DD spells or DoTs, or the zone is too easy because it allows conjurers to summon pets, etc.?!
I get sick of people without certain skills complaining that it makes things easier for those that have them. Guess what... if my swashy had taunts and could wear plate... it'd be EASIER for me to solo things. In fact, if I could play songs while wearing plate casting massive DDs while my pet pummeled things and I healed myself... that would make it easier too... oh wait... I can't do any of that stuff... so.... let's nerf the zone so no one else can heal, cast, summon, taunt or tank...
It'd be a nice change to see certain zones where certain classes or archtypes could shine. You don't tho... because of whiners... it's too easy (cry a river)... people can stealth thru (cry a river)... I want to be a class that doesn't have stealth (whine)... so why should anyone else be able to do things I can't (whine)...
So you can't do everything in the game.... SUCK IT UP! That's life. Find a class you like and play it.... if you want to try a different class... do it... just stop the whining!
Geez!

I kind of see what you are saying. It is annoying how useless the designers have made steath and invis, but do you really see stealth as your CLASS DEFINING skill?

Windowlicker · 10-05-2007, 04:29 PM

I'm sorry but there's no way a zone like this should have no see-invis mobs in it. Not only should it be completely riddled with see-invis mobs, but it should literally be impossible to move through it without taking down a minimum set of required content.

"Stealth" is not class defining. If it was, then only ONE or TWO classes would have it. As it stands, all scouts have this ability. It already comes in more then handy in this game without being able to waltz through this instance. I say this as someone with a 70 Dirge, and a nearly 40 Swash.

Especially something that is currently top level content in this game.

Beyond that, the last thing Scouts need is the ability to walk around in a zone like this without taking aggro. As it stands Scouts are literally the #1 class that tends to not follow the tank, not follow the group .. and get themselves and the group killed by wandering around touching things they shouldn't.

Nerf it I say, Nerf it hard.

Wilin · 10-05-2007, 05:13 PM

Oakum wrote:

While players do use FD to train groups/raids past mobs they don't want to or can't kill, their is always a chance of it failing for those with quick reuse timers or the player being stunned. Stealth and invis both remove any danger at all where the mobs can't see us until we want them to.
If you are not a brawler/sk/necro and want to use fd all you have to do is be a tinkerer for a secondary tradeskill.
Of course everyone over lvl 30 can stealth or invis with totems so thats even easier for anyone that wants to use them but doesn't have them as a spell/ca ability.

Agreed.

Don't forget rogues though. They can FD too if specced.

Cocytus · 10-05-2007, 05:52 PM

I just think it's stupid that the point of stealth is not to be seen, and yet the only occassions where you can't train past mobs, or you'll die....Are the occassions where things see stealth.

If that's how it' s going to be they need to rename it to "Stealth attack preparation" since it has no other useful function.

Kendricke · 10-05-2007, 05:59 PM

The zone is far too easy for release at this point. Difficulty across the board needs to be ramped up.

Absolutely there need to be more see-invisibility and see-stealth creatures in here. There should be some level of ...well, fear. With a totem that costs less than a gold, I can currently walk essentially anywhere I want right now with impunity.

That's right. In your face (er, whatever) Cazic! I can waltz around your puny Shard without ANY FEAR AT ALL. I'm not scared. I'm not even breaking a sweat. I can dance a jig at the feet of every nastry critter in here. WOOHOO! That's right. WOOHOO!

10-04-2007, 08:58 AM	#3
Killerbee3000 Loremaster Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: right behind you Posts: 1,802	dunno if its much of an issue since everyone will want the exp form killing the mobs anyway once rok is out... __________________ Whiskers without loosing Eyes in '08!

10-04-2007, 11:50 AM	#5
Ookami-san Loremaster Join Date: Nov 2004 Location: Allentown, PA Posts: 336	Cool.... since we're going to nerf the zone for stealth classes... Let's make no taunts work in the zone... that'll effectively nerf the zone to tanks Oh... and let's make it so that no heals work in the zone... that'll take care of the healers... And we can't make sure all damage spells are 100% resisted... that should nerf the finger wagglers... Oh... and let's make pets unsummonable in the zone and make debuffs impossible to land... Did I miss anyone? __________________ _____________________________________ Life is pain Princess! Anyone who tells you differently, is selling something!

10-04-2007, 12:05 PM	#7
Novusod Loremaster Join Date: Mar 2006 Posts: 1,719	Why not just hide the loot in the trash mobs. Named only give AA and quest updates. If you want access to the zone's loot table you need to kill everything. __________________

10-04-2007, 12:34 PM	#8
einar4 General Join Date: Nov 2004 Posts: 496	Ookami-san wrote: Cool.... since we're going to nerf the zone for stealth classes... Let's make no taunts work in the zone... that'll effectively nerf the zone to tanks Oh... and let's make it so that no heals work in the zone... that'll take care of the healers... And we can't make sure all damage spells are 100% resisted... that should nerf the finger wagglers... Oh... and let's make pets unsummonable in the zone and make debuffs impossible to land... Did I miss anyone? Well, lets see. Taunts are contested skill checks Healers can be stifled. Damage spells can be resisted/mitigated Pets can be killed But stealth should be a get-through-the-zone-free card? __________________ Pagris, Jhervais etc. "Sage, did I err?" Groo the Wanderer.

10-04-2007, 12:37 PM	#9
Freliant Loremaster Join Date: Nov 2004 Posts: 1,016	Haven't been in the zone yet, but I for one do not intend on skipping trash, unless its a quick run. Once Rok comes out, I will not skip anything. __________________ "Change is inevitable" - AM Sephastus 80 Wizard - Retired Onosphire 80 Guardian- Retired

10-04-2007, 08:38 AM	#1
Necodem General Join Date: May 2006 Location: France Posts: 325	It's too easy to walk in this zone with a group stealth or invis, would be better to put all see invis/stealth ability.

10-04-2007, 08:58 AM	#2
Cusashorn Loremaster Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: Cheeseland, USA Posts: 14,919	What the heck is wrong with you? You WANT more challenge?

10-04-2007, 11:15 AM	#4
Necodem General Join Date: May 2006 Location: France Posts: 325	Yes of course I want more challenge, btw the zone seems really easy.

10-04-2007, 11:54 AM	#6
Necodem General Join Date: May 2006 Location: France Posts: 325	The zone is way too easy, and with stealth pretty fast to clear.

10-04-2007, 02:19 PM	#10
Runewind Fansite Staff Join Date: Nov 2004 Posts: 341	Ikarri@Lucan DLere wrote: Ookami-san wrote: Cool.... since we're going to nerf the zone for stealth classes... Let's make no taunts work in the zone... that'll effectively nerf the zone to tanks Oh... and let's make it so that no heals work in the zone... that'll take care of the healers... And we can't make sure all damage spells are 100% resisted... that should nerf the finger wagglers... Oh... and let's make pets unsummonable in the zone and make debuffs impossible to land... Did I miss anyone? Well, lets see. Taunts are contested skill checks Healers can be stifled. Damage spells can be resisted/mitigated Pets can be killed But stealth should be a get-through-the-zone-free card? I think the issue was that the OP was suggesting making stealth USELESS in the zone, see?Darkhain@Venekor wrote: It's too easy to walk in this zone with a group stealth or invis, would be better to put all see invis/stealth ability. So putting SOME see invis mobs wouldn't be a bad idea but if you make them ALL see invis/stealth than stealth is useless which is what, I believe, Ookami was responding to. __________________

10-04-2007, 02:44 PM	#11
Bre General Join Date: Nov 2004 Posts: 366	SOE is aware of the lack of see invis mobs in the zone. I as a scout found it refreshing, but recognize and understand the need for see invis mobs. Although I do hope they don't go overboard with them. I don't think the zone is fully implimented yet, kind of a phase one thing right now imo. Brega - 70 Ranger, Test Server

10-04-2007, 02:47 PM	#12
Kaiser Sigma Loremaster Join Date: Jan 2005 Posts: 361	Novusod wrote: Why not just hide the loot in the trash mobs. Named only give AA and quest updates. If you want access to the zone's loot table you need to kill everything. Because trash mobs dropping loot is the worst idea ever. Look at Throne of New Tunaria as a fine example of how borked up the random system is. Stealth on some or all mobs is fine. As far as I recall, you couldn't stealth / invis in Nizara or Unrest and if the zone is as easy as they say then either trash sees stealth / invis or we have a new Nektropos Tribulation.

10-04-2007, 03:34 PM	#13
Morrias Server: Antonia Bayle Guild: Dynasty Reborn Rank: Member Loremaster Join Date: Dec 2005 Posts: 552	Well, I dont think it will matter for a brawler or well, anyone that can run, those mobs hardly do any dmg, that zone seems WAY to easy..

10-04-2007, 04:45 PM	#14
Wilin Loremaster Join Date: Nov 2004 Posts: 1,151	Novusod wrote: Why not just hide the loot in the trash mobs. Named only give AA and quest updates. If you want access to the zone's loot table you need to kill everything. You mean itemize all of the class armor on random mobs in the Plane of Fear so you have to kill all of the mobs to get all of the armor drops? That has never happened before...while they are at it, why don't they put each class'es armor on specific subsets of mobs. Nah... __________________

10-04-2007, 07:43 PM	#15
Cusashorn Loremaster Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: Cheeseland, USA Posts: 14,919	The zone is still being reworked. the GM's have it set on easy right now to settle out some things.

10-04-2007, 09:42 PM	#16
Cocytus Loremaster Join Date: Feb 2005 Posts: 1,908	Yeah, stealth is already pretty much useless in EQ2, why should we ever start making exceptions that make it useful?

10-04-2007, 11:52 PM	#17
Willias Loremaster Join Date: Jan 2006 Location: Louisville, Kentucky, USA Posts: 182	wait, whatStealth is used for special attacks. Since there's group stealth, you can't have it be too useful in dungeon situations, or you just have people using stealth to get to named mobs while ignoring everything else.

10-05-2007, 12:38 PM	#18
Wilin Loremaster Join Date: Nov 2004 Posts: 1,151	Willias@Unrest wrote: wait, whatStealth is used for special attacks. Since there's group stealth, you can't have it be too useful in dungeon situations, or you just have people using stealth to get to named mobs while ignoring everything else. Kinda like people using FD to get to named mobs while ignoring everything else. __________________

10-05-2007, 12:41 PM	#19
Aela@Test Tester Join Date: Jun 2006 Posts: 171	Wilin wrote: Willias@Unrest wrote: wait, whatStealth is used for special attacks. Since there's group stealth, you can't have it be too useful in dungeon situations, or you just have people using stealth to get to named mobs while ignoring everything else. Kinda like people using FD to get to named mobs while ignoring everything else. " width="15" height="15" /> So what classes get group FD? I think that is more of the issue here. Not one person, but a group or a raid being able to do it.

10-05-2007, 01:23 PM	#20
Xanrn Loremaster Join Date: Dec 2004 Posts: 458	Monks get Group FD on a 15 minute timer that has the habit of killing people. __________________

10-05-2007, 02:19 PM	#21
Cusashorn Loremaster Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: Cheeseland, USA Posts: 14,919	It's called Fall of the Phoenix. At master 1, it applies a 90% feign death success rate on each individual member of your group. People can still "Fall to the ground" while others successfully feign. Only monks get this skill, and it's a 15 minute timer. It also last 3 minutes and then you stand up. You can't use it to move an entire group past content.

10-05-2007, 03:03 PM	#22
Wilin Loremaster Join Date: Nov 2004 Posts: 1,151	I'm not even talking about the monk's group FD. That will get you killed __________________

10-05-2007, 03:18 PM	#23
Oakum Loremaster Join Date: Feb 2005 Posts: 1,441	Wilin wrote: Willias@Unrest wrote: wait, whatStealth is used for special attacks. Since there's group stealth, you can't have it be too useful in dungeon situations, or you just have people using stealth to get to named mobs while ignoring everything else. Kinda like people using FD to get to named mobs while ignoring everything else. " width="15" height="15" /> While players do use FD to train groups/raids past mobs they don't want to or can't kill, their is always a chance of it failing for those with quick reuse timers or the player being stunned. Stealth and invis both remove any danger at all where the mobs can't see us until we want them to. If you are not a brawler/sk/necro and want to use fd all you have to do is be a tinkerer for a secondary tradeskill. Of course everyone over lvl 30 can stealth or invis with totems so thats even easier for anyone that wants to use them but doesn't have them as a spell/ca ability. __________________

10-05-2007, 03:34 PM	#24
Ookami-san Loremaster Join Date: Nov 2004 Location: Allentown, PA Posts: 336	Ikarri@Lucan DLere wrote: Well, lets see. Taunts are contested skill checks Healers can be stifled. Damage spells can be resisted/mitigated Pets can be killed But stealth should be a get-through-the-zone-free card? Not saying stealth should be a get-through-the-zone-free card, but a little more use of a CLASS DEFINING skill would be nice for a change. How often do you see people complaining the the mobs aren't immune to taunts, or the mobs aren't immune to DD spells or DoTs, or the zone is too easy because it allows conjurers to summon pets, etc.?! I get sick of people without certain skills complaining that it makes things easier for those that have them. Guess what... if my swashy had taunts and could wear plate... it'd be EASIER for me to solo things. In fact, if I could play songs while wearing plate casting massive DDs while my pet pummeled things and I healed myself... that would make it easier too... oh wait... I can't do any of that stuff... so.... let's nerf the zone so no one else can heal, cast, summon, taunt or tank... It'd be a nice change to see certain zones where certain classes or archtypes could shine. You don't tho... because of whiners... it's too easy (cry a river)... people can stealth thru (cry a river)... I want to be a class that doesn't have stealth (whine)... so why should anyone else be able to do things I can't (whine)... So you can't do everything in the game.... SUCK IT UP! That's life. Find a class you like and play it.... if you want to try a different class... do it... just stop the whining! Geez! __________________ _____________________________________ Life is pain Princess! Anyone who tells you differently, is selling something!

10-05-2007, 04:06 PM	#25
Sapphirius Loremaster Join Date: May 2005 Posts: 2,399	Oakum wrote: While players do use FD to train groups/raids past mobs they don't want to or can't kill, their is always a chance of it failing for those with quick reuse timers or the player being stunned. Stealth and invis both remove any danger at all where the mobs can't see us until we want them to. If you are not a brawler/sk/necro and want to use fd all you have to do is be a tinkerer for a secondary tradeskill. Of course everyone over lvl 30 can stealth or invis with totems so thats even easier for anyone that wants to use them but doesn't have them as a spell/ca ability. TeeHee! That 4% failure rate gets me into more trouble than anything else in that game. The time I most need my FD is the time when that 4% decides it wants to play. __________________ Decorating is 1% inspiration, 9% work, and 90% tweaking. I've spent many an hour just moving things I've placed an inch or so over "that-a-way."

10-05-2007, 04:14 PM	#26
KBern Loremaster Join Date: Nov 2004 Posts: 2,372	Ookami-san wrote: Ikarri@Lucan DLere wrote: Well, lets see. Taunts are contested skill checks Healers can be stifled. Damage spells can be resisted/mitigated Pets can be killed But stealth should be a get-through-the-zone-free card? Not saying stealth should be a get-through-the-zone-free card, but a little more use of a CLASS DEFINING skill would be nice for a change. How often do you see people complaining the the mobs aren't immune to taunts, or the mobs aren't immune to DD spells or DoTs, or the zone is too easy because it allows conjurers to summon pets, etc.?! I get sick of people without certain skills complaining that it makes things easier for those that have them. Guess what... if my swashy had taunts and could wear plate... it'd be EASIER for me to solo things. In fact, if I could play songs while wearing plate casting massive DDs while my pet pummeled things and I healed myself... that would make it easier too... oh wait... I can't do any of that stuff... so.... let's nerf the zone so no one else can heal, cast, summon, taunt or tank... It'd be a nice change to see certain zones where certain classes or archtypes could shine. You don't tho... because of whiners... it's too easy (cry a river)... people can stealth thru (cry a river)... I want to be a class that doesn't have stealth (whine)... so why should anyone else be able to do things I can't (whine)... So you can't do everything in the game.... SUCK IT UP! That's life. Find a class you like and play it.... if you want to try a different class... do it... just stop the whining! Geez! I kind of see what you are saying. It is annoying how useless the designers have made steath and invis, but do you really see stealth as your CLASS DEFINING skill? __________________

10-05-2007, 04:29 PM	#27
Windowlicker Loremaster Join Date: Mar 2005 Location: Toronto, Ontario Posts: 1,257	I'm sorry but there's no way a zone like this should have no see-invis mobs in it. Not only should it be completely riddled with see-invis mobs, but it should literally be impossible to move through it without taking down a minimum set of required content. "Stealth" is not class defining. If it was, then only ONE or TWO classes would have it. As it stands, all scouts have this ability. It already comes in more then handy in this game without being able to waltz through this instance. I say this as someone with a 70 Dirge, and a nearly 40 Swash. Especially something that is currently top level content in this game. Beyond that, the last thing Scouts need is the ability to walk around in a zone like this without taking aggro. As it stands Scouts are literally the #1 class that tends to not follow the tank, not follow the group .. and get themselves and the group killed by wandering around touching things they shouldn't. Nerf it I say, Nerf it hard. __________________ -------------------------- Rikko - 80 Berserker Zahne - 80 Warlock

10-05-2007, 05:13 PM	#28
Wilin Loremaster Join Date: Nov 2004 Posts: 1,151	Oakum wrote: While players do use FD to train groups/raids past mobs they don't want to or can't kill, their is always a chance of it failing for those with quick reuse timers or the player being stunned. Stealth and invis both remove any danger at all where the mobs can't see us until we want them to. If you are not a brawler/sk/necro and want to use fd all you have to do is be a tinkerer for a secondary tradeskill. Of course everyone over lvl 30 can stealth or invis with totems so thats even easier for anyone that wants to use them but doesn't have them as a spell/ca ability. Agreed. Don't forget rogues though. They can FD too if specced. __________________

10-05-2007, 05:52 PM	#29
Cocytus Loremaster Join Date: Feb 2005 Posts: 1,908	I just think it's stupid that the point of stealth is not to be seen, and yet the only occassions where you can't train past mobs, or you'll die....Are the occassions where things see stealth. If that's how it' s going to be they need to rename it to "Stealth attack preparation" since it has no other useful function.

10-05-2007, 05:59 PM	#30
Kendricke Loremaster Join Date: Nov 2004 Posts: 4,032	The zone is far too easy for release at this point. Difficulty across the board needs to be ramped up. Absolutely there need to be more see-invisibility and see-stealth creatures in here. There should be some level of ...well, fear. With a totem that costs less than a gold, I can currently walk essentially anywhere I want right now with impunity. That's right. In your face (er, whatever) Cazic! I can waltz around your puny Shard without ANY FEAR AT ALL. I'm not scared. I'm not even breaking a sweat. I can dance a jig at the feet of every nastry critter in here. WOOHOO! That's right. WOOHOO! __________________ * -Opinions expressed in this post do not represent any current or past employers.