maximizing crane flock and other questions.

ArcticBlue182 · 09-21-2007, 10:18 AM

ive just recently changed my AA set up to try this and im wondering what the best way to use it is.. after i fire it off should still use some CA's or just let it auto attack for the 16 seconds bearing in mind im fully mastered (well all but storming palm)i was going to go down the 448 sta,int,wis but i read that you also need some good proc items to help up the dps which kinda put me off ad i dont have many, only boots from DT and whats on my weps the TC from labs and marrs fist. also is it better to have some of the dot proc adornments on the weps or the +12xxxx ones ? any recomended instances to farm for proc items ?and out of those 3 weps whats the best to use.. ive been using the high dmg TC and marrs fist, i very much doubt i will be able to get any of the better monk weps as i dont raid often on my monk as my trouby is always needed.

Dorieon · 09-21-2007, 11:08 AM

ArcticBlue182 wrote:

ive just recently changed my AA set up to try this and im wondering what the best way to use it is.. after i fire it off should still use some CA's or just let it auto attack for the 16 seconds bearing in mind im fully mastered (well all but storming palm)
I kinda had the same problem when I started playing again. I would cast CF and try and fit CA's in between the attacks. After a few raids, I tried it with just auto attacks and got much better results. Now, I mostly auto attack but will slip a few of our bigger Ca's in from time to time...you just have to know your weapons timing.i was going to go down the 448 sta,int,wis but i read that you also need some good proc items to help up the dps which kinda put me off ad i dont have many, only boots from DT and whats on my weps the TC from labs and marrs fist. also is it better to have some of the dot proc adornments on the weps or the +12xxxx ones ? any recomended instances to farm for proc items ?
You will get a ton of varying opinions about adornments. Some think straight dps and will be split on procs vs +skill though most I think will tell you to go +crushing when you can. Others will say to get the vampiric and phantom adornments which will give you health and mana boost while fighting. I personally prefer the vampiric and phantom (depending on weapon) because it helps in both raid and solo aspects of the game. So its kinda up to you...a bit more dps or a bit more survivabilty. and out of those 3 weps whats the best to use.. ive been using the high dmg TC and marrs fist, i very much doubt i will be able to get any of the better monk weps as i dont raid often on my monk as my trouby is always needed.
I think that you are using the best weapon combo that you have. I like marrs fist, the delay is better for bruisers but monks proc it way more often. After LU38 1.6 delay weapons became alot more viable for monks but I still prefer the 2.5 delay. I get better dps out of the higher delay weapons. I would say keep using what you have until you either get a drop from EoF that would rot, or your guild leader realizes how useful our new raid wide haste/casting haste buff is and you get in a raid on your brawler. Not saying its better than a troub, but if you have two troubs and no monk I think you could drop a troub and get a nice overall raid dps increase with a monk.
Hope that helps.

Hissori · 09-21-2007, 12:35 PM

I currently us CF as well. I tried messing with ca's in there, but honestly, I found better results with just letting auto attack go for the duration. Now I'm using very fast weapons...Scepter of Destruction and Bone Skewer at 1.2 or .6 with self buffed haste. This allows for a LOT of hits. Especially in a multiple mob encounter within the duration of the CF. so i NEVER use ca's within that time. The order how I go about setting up a CF with maximum dps is the following in order as of LU38.1. Tsunammi - I tend to gain aggro when hitting the following CF combination so I like to be prepared.2. Crane Flock - Auto attack only. with the exception of the immediate Devistation Fist.3. Devistation Fist - Stifles you, but you only really want to be autoattacking during Crane flock anyway....so it doesn't matter.The above is nice when all attacks are up.In adition to the above, use Everburning Blaze before initiating the above for the duration of CF. The increased haste means your going to get more hits. on a raid I have Everburing Blaze on 100% of the time, but in solo situations, just kick it on during the CF duration.Hope that helps.

Timaarit · 09-22-2007, 04:20 AM

Looking at how my DPS builds up, I am always using CA's with crane flock. After all, on a single target CF doubles my autoattack DPS for the duration and gives multiplier of 1 for each add. Currently with me using CF every now and then, 55% of my DPS is from autoattack so especially on a single target, if you are not using CA's, you are not doing much extra damage.Note that CF gives the double attack on both, main hand and off hand weapons. Only the AE hit is from main hand. So against single targets, there is no need to switch for 2-hander while using CF.Anyway, if I can, I do try to use CF when my CA's are recycling, however I will also use all CA's that pop up while CF is up.

ArcticBlue182 · 09-22-2007, 08:31 AM

funny you should say that about raids and our raid wide buff.. our latest labs run which is now used to mainly gear up alts i was still not allowed to use my monk as they wanted power regen in each group, we had 2 troubs and 2 dirge on that raid, sometimes we can have 3 troubies and 3 dirge all wanting to come and i still cannot drop my troub for the monk :/ instead 1 of the other troubs gets to bring his SK.i currently have the +12xx on both TC weps and a dot on marrs fist but with out looking i cant remember i think its the poison one.. i live in hope that the monk class gets some raid improvements so i can take him more often instead of parking him out side in case any brawler items drop (kos raids) i currently have zero chance of getting any EoF items and it looks very bleak for the next expansion, from where im sitting anyway. SMILEY

Siatfallen · 09-22-2007, 10:06 AM

Hissori, if you are using the bonetooth skewer and scepter of destruction after LU 38, then remember that 33% delay was added. Assuming that you are sitting around 100% haste, that makes your delay:1.2 * 1.33 / 2 = 0.798.This is still a far cry from the 0.94 CA cast time we get with Swift Calm up. However, try speccing to have 5 points in the second ability in the agi tree (Baton Flurry). Now, when you hit that ablility, you should see your CA cast time + recovery time hit 0.81 seconds (more points in Baton Flurry can, I guess, lower it even more).Doing the above, you should lose very very few autoattacks while chaining CAs, seeing how the difference is down to 0.012 seconds (give or take, I only ever calculated the recovery time with two decimals, so I suppose there's some variance at play there, but whatever the case, you should not be wasting more than 2% of your autoattack time with the above setup).- When you get more haste due to master skills, group buffs or the like, more points in Baton Flurry can help... But likely not much, and you may want to save your points for other things. Alternately, change to 2.5 delay weapons... They are a tiny little notch above double delay of 1.2 after all. By my calculations, 105% haste is ideal for them with the above model.Finally: In order to do the above without wasting DPS, my current spec in the brawler tree is int 448 / wis 48822 / agi 45. Better specs may well be possible.

Hissori · 09-22-2007, 02:47 PM

Thanks for the info Siatfallen. I'm always looking to try new things to see what works best. I did at one point have the typical Agi/Sta/Int 448 and did get a nice increase in dps by using batton flurry. However when I was messing around one day with a 5g respec I went to Crane Flock to give it a shot. I had a MAJOR zone wide increase with dps using crane flock. In fact the #3 skill erm...passive crane twirl (the proc ae) i put 8 points in. Crane Twirl is actually my 2nd best zonewide damage on parses right after Flailing Centipede (crush/pierce first of course). I have recently switched to the FoB instead of the Bonetooth depending on situation. I use FoB for Raids and the Bonetooth because of stuns for solo/heroic. Just 2 more steps in SOD to get the soulfire, which at that time I'll use FoB and the Kama. But in closing I really found a significant increase in Dps zonewide (i'm mostly a raiding monk) by going down the Wis line instead of the Agi and putting 8 pts into the passive proccing ae. Perhaps I'll give it another shot though as you specced to see how it goes. But just went to the bottom of Int tree as well right now basically for soloability. Right now I'm getting between 1100 and 1500 dps zonewide depending on the raid zone with zerker, brig, dirge, ranger, mystic as my standard group. But I still struggle to even hit 2k on a single fight. Have only done it a couple of times.

09-21-2007, 11:08 AM	#2
Dorieon Server: Guk Guild: Despair Rank: Member Loremaster Join Date: Jun 2007 Posts: 171	ArcticBlue182 wrote: ive just recently changed my AA set up to try this and im wondering what the best way to use it is.. after i fire it off should still use some CA's or just let it auto attack for the 16 seconds bearing in mind im fully mastered (well all but storming palm) I kinda had the same problem when I started playing again. I would cast CF and try and fit CA's in between the attacks. After a few raids, I tried it with just auto attacks and got much better results. Now, I mostly auto attack but will slip a few of our bigger Ca's in from time to time...you just have to know your weapons timing.i was going to go down the 448 sta,int,wis but i read that you also need some good proc items to help up the dps which kinda put me off ad i dont have many, only boots from DT and whats on my weps the TC from labs and marrs fist. also is it better to have some of the dot proc adornments on the weps or the +12xxxx ones ? any recomended instances to farm for proc items ? You will get a ton of varying opinions about adornments. Some think straight dps and will be split on procs vs +skill though most I think will tell you to go +crushing when you can. Others will say to get the vampiric and phantom adornments which will give you health and mana boost while fighting. I personally prefer the vampiric and phantom (depending on weapon) because it helps in both raid and solo aspects of the game. So its kinda up to you...a bit more dps or a bit more survivabilty. and out of those 3 weps whats the best to use.. ive been using the high dmg TC and marrs fist, i very much doubt i will be able to get any of the better monk weps as i dont raid often on my monk as my trouby is always needed. I think that you are using the best weapon combo that you have. I like marrs fist, the delay is better for bruisers but monks proc it way more often. After LU38 1.6 delay weapons became alot more viable for monks but I still prefer the 2.5 delay. I get better dps out of the higher delay weapons. I would say keep using what you have until you either get a drop from EoF that would rot, or your guild leader realizes how useful our new raid wide haste/casting haste buff is and you get in a raid on your brawler. Not saying its better than a troub, but if you have two troubs and no monk I think you could drop a troub and get a nice overall raid dps increase with a monk. Hope that helps.

09-22-2007, 10:06 AM	#6
Siatfallen Loremaster Join Date: Jun 2005 Location: Denmark Posts: 258	Hissori, if you are using the bonetooth skewer and scepter of destruction after LU 38, then remember that 33% delay was added. Assuming that you are sitting around 100% haste, that makes your delay:1.2 * 1.33 / 2 = 0.798.This is still a far cry from the 0.94 CA cast time we get with Swift Calm up. However, try speccing to have 5 points in the second ability in the agi tree (Baton Flurry). Now, when you hit that ablility, you should see your CA cast time + recovery time hit 0.81 seconds (more points in Baton Flurry can, I guess, lower it even more).Doing the above, you should lose very very few autoattacks while chaining CAs, seeing how the difference is down to 0.012 seconds (give or take, I only ever calculated the recovery time with two decimals, so I suppose there's some variance at play there, but whatever the case, you should not be wasting more than 2% of your autoattack time with the above setup).- When you get more haste due to master skills, group buffs or the like, more points in Baton Flurry can help... But likely not much, and you may want to save your points for other things. Alternately, change to 2.5 delay weapons... They are a tiny little notch above double delay of 1.2 after all. By my calculations, 105% haste is ideal for them with the above model.Finally: In order to do the above without wasting DPS, my current spec in the brawler tree is int 448 / wis 48822 / agi 45. Better specs may well be possible. __________________ --- Eilien, 80 monk of Soulforged, Antonia Bayle.

09-22-2007, 02:47 PM	#7
Hissori Loremaster Join Date: Dec 2004 Posts: 14	Thanks for the info Siatfallen. I'm always looking to try new things to see what works best. I did at one point have the typical Agi/Sta/Int 448 and did get a nice increase in dps by using batton flurry. However when I was messing around one day with a 5g respec I went to Crane Flock to give it a shot. I had a MAJOR zone wide increase with dps using crane flock. In fact the #3 skill erm...passive crane twirl (the proc ae) i put 8 points in. Crane Twirl is actually my 2nd best zonewide damage on parses right after Flailing Centipede (crush/pierce first of course). I have recently switched to the FoB instead of the Bonetooth depending on situation. I use FoB for Raids and the Bonetooth because of stuns for solo/heroic. Just 2 more steps in SOD to get the soulfire, which at that time I'll use FoB and the Kama. But in closing I really found a significant increase in Dps zonewide (i'm mostly a raiding monk) by going down the Wis line instead of the Agi and putting 8 pts into the passive proccing ae. Perhaps I'll give it another shot though as you specced to see how it goes. But just went to the bottom of Int tree as well right now basically for soloability. Right now I'm getting between 1100 and 1500 dps zonewide depending on the raid zone with zerker, brig, dirge, ranger, mystic as my standard group. But I still struggle to even hit 2k on a single fight. Have only done it a couple of times. __________________

09-21-2007, 10:18 AM	#1
ArcticBlue182 Loremaster Join Date: Oct 2005 Posts: 209	ive just recently changed my AA set up to try this and im wondering what the best way to use it is.. after i fire it off should still use some CA's or just let it auto attack for the 16 seconds bearing in mind im fully mastered (well all but storming palm)i was going to go down the 448 sta,int,wis but i read that you also need some good proc items to help up the dps which kinda put me off ad i dont have many, only boots from DT and whats on my weps the TC from labs and marrs fist. also is it better to have some of the dot proc adornments on the weps or the +12xxxx ones ? any recomended instances to farm for proc items ?and out of those 3 weps whats the best to use.. ive been using the high dmg TC and marrs fist, i very much doubt i will be able to get any of the better monk weps as i dont raid often on my monk as my trouby is always needed.

09-21-2007, 12:35 PM	#3
Hissori Loremaster Join Date: Dec 2004 Posts: 14	I currently us CF as well. I tried messing with ca's in there, but honestly, I found better results with just letting auto attack go for the duration. Now I'm using very fast weapons...Scepter of Destruction and Bone Skewer at 1.2 or .6 with self buffed haste. This allows for a LOT of hits. Especially in a multiple mob encounter within the duration of the CF. so i NEVER use ca's within that time. The order how I go about setting up a CF with maximum dps is the following in order as of LU38.1. Tsunammi - I tend to gain aggro when hitting the following CF combination so I like to be prepared.2. Crane Flock - Auto attack only. with the exception of the immediate Devistation Fist.3. Devistation Fist - Stifles you, but you only really want to be autoattacking during Crane flock anyway....so it doesn't matter.The above is nice when all attacks are up.In adition to the above, use Everburning Blaze before initiating the above for the duration of CF. The increased haste means your going to get more hits. on a raid I have Everburing Blaze on 100% of the time, but in solo situations, just kick it on during the CF duration.Hope that helps. __________________

09-22-2007, 04:20 AM	#4
Timaarit Loremaster Join Date: Feb 2005 Posts: 1,462	Looking at how my DPS builds up, I am always using CA's with crane flock. After all, on a single target CF doubles my autoattack DPS for the duration and gives multiplier of 1 for each add. Currently with me using CF every now and then, 55% of my DPS is from autoattack so especially on a single target, if you are not using CA's, you are not doing much extra damage.Note that CF gives the double attack on both, main hand and off hand weapons. Only the AE hit is from main hand. So against single targets, there is no need to switch for 2-hander while using CF.Anyway, if I can, I do try to use CF when my CA's are recycling, however I will also use all CA's that pop up while CF is up.

09-22-2007, 08:31 AM	#5
ArcticBlue182 Loremaster Join Date: Oct 2005 Posts: 209	funny you should say that about raids and our raid wide buff.. our latest labs run which is now used to mainly gear up alts i was still not allowed to use my monk as they wanted power regen in each group, we had 2 troubs and 2 dirge on that raid, sometimes we can have 3 troubies and 3 dirge all wanting to come and i still cannot drop my troub for the monk :/ instead 1 of the other troubs gets to bring his SK.i currently have the +12xx on both TC weps and a dot on marrs fist but with out looking i cant remember i think its the poison one.. i live in hope that the monk class gets some raid improvements so i can take him more often instead of parking him out side in case any brawler items drop (kos raids) i currently have zero chance of getting any EoF items and it looks very bleak for the next expansion, from where im sitting anyway.