Fan Faire /claim item

[PRALL]

Jynnan wrote:

Dreadpirate: You say "Wrong on both counts" and then admit that it IS easier for Americans to go to Fanfaire; you also say you know of "several people from Europe who have gone". Do you think it was as easy for them to attend as it was for the people living in the states? I don't think so. Besides, that's not the point I was making. The point is that there are in-game items being made available, generally, to people of one geographical area to the exclusion of people from other geographical areas, on the basis that it is FAR more difficult for them to meet the qualifying criteria.

Sutures: The fact that you met two people from Holland and one from England only goes to reinforce my point; as they say "One swallow does not a summer make". Secondly, where did I suggest that you needed American citizenship to attend Fanfaire?

Finally, who said anything about a "conspiracy"? As already mentioned, I simply commented on the fact that a nice fluff item is only available to people who meet a set of criteria that is very difficult for a sizeable portion of the paying customer base to achieve. There's no suggestion of a conspiracy and I suspect you are just using the description in an attempt to cheapen my comments.

Ah, but as another person has posted.. you said that Non-Americans were EXCLUDED. Not so. And my ticket to FF cost either 40,000 air miles or $1300 for a straight ticket. That's just airfare. Do you hear me complaining that they don't hold FF in Alaska? Nope.

I'm sorry, but suggesting that you got excluded and a select "clique" got a flluff item is a conspiracy theory no matter how you may phrase it. You are suggesting a favortism.

I'm done with the argument though. Can you please agree to keep this thread for the item, not the "fairness"? If you want to debate the fairness, please make another thread so that the cloak itself can be discussed here. (2nd request.)

[DreadPirate]

Jynnan wrote:

Dreadpirate: You say "Wrong on both counts" and then admit that it IS easier for Americans to go to Fanfaire; you also say you know of "several people from Europe who have gone". Do you think it was as easy for them to attend as it was for the people living in the states? I don't think so. Besides, that's not the point I was making. The point is that there are in-game items being made available, generally, to people of one geographical area to the exclusion of people from other geographical areas, on the basis that it is FAR more difficult for them to meet the qualifying criteria.

...

Finally, who said anything about a "conspiracy"? As already mentioned, I simply commented on the fact that a nice fluff item is only available to people who meet a set of criteria that is very difficult for a sizeable portion of the paying customer base to achieve. There's no suggestion of a conspiracy and I suspect you are just using the description in an attempt to cheapen my comments.

Easier? Yes.  EXCLUDED? No. 

And you're right, the "in-game item [is] being made available, generally, to people of one geographical area to the exclusion of people from other geographical areas."

Yep, absolutely right!  People that were in Las Vegas, Nevada attending the SOE Fan Faire will get the item, and everyone else in the 'Verse will not.  That's the only geography lesson involved here.  It's available to anyone with the financial means to get to the Fan Faire.  Are you going to want SOE to discount Overseas Air Fares next time?  Yeah... uh... not going to happen.  If you want it so badly, then go to the Fan Faire next time.  Personally, I don't think it's worth getting my panties in a twist.

"Besides, that's not the point I was making."  You have no point other than..  "I want the pretty cloak... gimme, gimme."

[L]

The cloak is so sexy with the LoN Mage carpet:

[ke'la]

LFG wrote:

The cloak is so sexy with the LoN Mage carpet:

Wich LoN carpet is that? and yeah it does look good... now you just need to get matching armor for your future appearance slots.

[Jynnan]

Othesus@Lucan DLere wrote:

Jynnan wrote:

Those players who live in America get to go to Fan-faire easily, whilst us people who live elsewhere in the world get excluded. Again.

I'm afraid that this game is starting to become a bit "cliquey", where only certain people seem to get the benefits. I shouldn't think that you'll see many Australasians, Europeans or Asians wearing that cloak!

It's not really worth arguing about but you may want to look up the word excluded in a dictionary.http://dictionary.reference.com/browse/excluded

Non-US residents are being excluded as a matter of their geography. You can't tell me that it is more expensive for an internal flight in the US to get to Las Vegas, than a flight from outside of the US?

This fact is borne out by the evidence; only a small handful of participants at the Fanfaire were non-US residents and I'll wager that that is a much smaller ratio of attendees compared with the number of US/Rest of the World players.

I'm quite happy with the use of the word "excluded"; the logistics involved justify the term.

[Calthine]

Oh, give it a rest already.  By your logic anyone who lived more than 500 or so miles away from Las Vegas was "excluded".  Anyone who bought a digital download of DoF instead of a box was excluded from having a monkey pet.  Anyone who didn't log on for two weeks in March was excluded from getting a Brell keg.Next you're going to bring out risk vs reward.It's a pretty, no-stats, fluff dress-up item.  It's not game breaking.  Please beat your "SOE hates non-US residents" drum elsewhere.

[Jynnan]

DreadPirate wrote:

You have no point other than..  "I want the pretty cloak... gimme, gimme."

Even if that were the case, could you really blame me? That cloak does look nice. OK, it's only a fluff item, but it is only available to a small, select (cliquey?) group who have the wherewithall to go to Las Vegas for a weekend.

It would be nice if SoE could come up with some ideas that involve all players from all nations for once, instead of just restricting competitions and in game gift items to (on the whole) US citizens.

[Chanaluss]

meh, softskins have no appreciation for things sebilisian anyway. Iksar good, softskins bad *leaves to start an iksar-only demonstration in front of the qeynos gates*

[SG_01]

Sutures@Antonia Bayle wrote:

Hey! Quit looking at my butt! 

 (Yeah, that screenie on Allah's is of me.)

I'm sure Promise and Trebs are eying it gently

[L]

Calthine wrote:

Oh, give it a rest already.  By your logic anyone who lived more than 500 or so miles away from Las Vegas was "excluded".  Anyone who bought a digital download of DoF instead of a box was excluded from having a monkey pet.  Anyone who didn't log on for two weeks in March was excluded from getting a Brell keg.Next you're going to bring out risk vs reward.It's a pretty, no-stats, fluff dress-up item.  It's not game breaking.  Please beat your "SOE hates non-US residents" drum elsewhere.

Wow, owned by Calthine!  <3She makes me so proud sometimes. 

[Jynnan]

Calthine wrote:

Oh, give it a rest already.  By your logic anyone who lived more than 500 or so miles away from Las Vegas was "excluded".  Anyone who bought a digital download of DoF instead of a box was excluded from having a monkey pet.  Anyone who didn't log on for two weeks in March was excluded from getting a Brell keg.Next you're going to bring out risk vs reward.It's a pretty, no-stats, fluff dress-up item.  It's not game breaking.  Please beat your "SOE hates non-US residents" drum elsewhere.

Why do you always feel the need to try to project someone's logic to ridiculous extremes? You're talking absolute rubbish now!

You've put "SOE hates non-US residents" in quotes - I didn't say anything of the sort simply because I don't agree with that sentiment. However, I DO believe that they could try to do more to include the rest of their playerbase once in a while. 

I thought you were an intelligent woman, Calthine!

[DreadPirate]

Jynnan wrote:

Calthine wrote:

Oh, give it a rest already.  By your logic anyone who lived more than 500 or so miles away from Las Vegas was "excluded".  Anyone who bought a digital download of DoF instead of a box was excluded from having a monkey pet.  Anyone who didn't log on for two weeks in March was excluded from getting a Brell keg.Next you're going to bring out risk vs reward.It's a pretty, no-stats, fluff dress-up item.  It's not game breaking.  Please beat your "SOE hates non-US residents" drum elsewhere.

Why do you always feel the need to try to project someone's logic to ridiculous extremes? You're talking absolute rubbish now!

You've put "SOE hates non-US residents" in quotes - I didn't say anything of the sort simply because I don't agree with that sentiment. However, I DO believe that they could try to do more to include the rest of their playerbase once in a while. 

I thought you were an intelligent woman, Calthine!

She is, but she's having a battle of wits with an unarmed person.

The only one taking rubbish here is you.

[Jynnan]

DreadPirate wrote:

Jynnan wrote:

Calthine wrote:

Oh, give it a rest already.  By your logic anyone who lived more than 500 or so miles away from Las Vegas was "excluded".  Anyone who bought a digital download of DoF instead of a box was excluded from having a monkey pet.  Anyone who didn't log on for two weeks in March was excluded from getting a Brell keg.Next you're going to bring out risk vs reward.It's a pretty, no-stats, fluff dress-up item.  It's not game breaking.  Please beat your "SOE hates non-US residents" drum elsewhere.

Why do you always feel the need to try to project someone's logic to ridiculous extremes? You're talking absolute rubbish now!

You've put "SOE hates non-US residents" in quotes - I didn't say anything of the sort simply because I don't agree with that sentiment. However, I DO believe that they could try to do more to include the rest of their playerbase once in a while. 

I thought you were an intelligent woman, Calthine!

She is, but she's having a battle of wits with an unarmed person.

The only one taking rubbish here is you.

Ahhh! Are you sticking up for her now? THere, there ... that's nice, very cosy!

What was I saying about cliques?

[Calthine]

/raises an eyebrowOoookay.  Enjoy your world./walks away.

[Jynnan]

Calthine wrote:

/raises an eyebrowOoookay.  Enjoy your world./walks away.

Byeeee!

[Gagla]

Jynnan wrote:

DreadPirate wrote:

You have no point other than..  "I want the pretty cloak... gimme, gimme."

Even if that were the case, could you really blame me? That cloak does look nice. OK, it's only a fluff item, but it is only available to a small, select (cliquey?) group who have the wherewithall to go to Las Vegas for a weekend.

It would be nice if SoE could come up with some ideas that involve all players from all nations for once, instead of just restricting competitions and in game gift items to (on the whole) US citizens.

I don't think Fan Faire was directed at Americans. It was directed at SOE customers with money. "If you have money, come spend it!" Is the basic principle and if you can't understand why a company would want to make money, then I'm not sure what to tell you.And at the end of the night SOE was like, "Thanks for spending money, here's a worthless item to bring you back next year."

[ke'la]

Jynnan wrote:

Othesus@Lucan DLere wrote:

Jynnan wrote:

Those players who live in America get to go to Fan-faire easily, whilst us people who live elsewhere in the world get excluded. Again.

I'm afraid that this game is starting to become a bit "cliquey", where only certain people seem to get the benefits. I shouldn't think that you'll see many Australasians, Europeans or Asians wearing that cloak!

It's not really worth arguing about but you may want to look up the word excluded in a dictionary.http://dictionary.reference.com/browse/excluded

Non-US residents are being excluded as a matter of their geography. You can't tell me that it is more expensive for an internal flight in the US to get to Las Vegas, than a flight from outside of the US?

This fact is borne out by the evidence; only a small handful of participants at the Fanfaire were non-US residents and I'll wager that that is a much smaller ratio of attendees compared with the number of US/Rest of the World players.

I'm quite happy with the use of the word "excluded"; the logistics involved justify the term.

I just looked up a flight from Paris France to Las Vegas leaving Wendsday and returning Sunday(about what it would be going to Fan Fair), guess what? The prices started at $865 round trip toping out at $1813, seeing as this is the ONLY major expence that would be any differant between a US citizen and a Non-Citizen and that a previous poster already said it cost him almost $1200 I would say that your "Logistics" argument just got blown out of the water. And BTW, including layovers you can spend more time flying coast to coast in the US then you can flying from Europe to the US.

::EDIT::Looks like I just did. I am sorry but you seem unaware of a) the Geography of the US and b) the shear SIZE of the US. What your are saying it basicly is that it is Cheaper for someone to fly from Moscow to Paris then from New York to Paris, because Moscow to Paris is on the same Contenant. It also does not take into account that ALOT of US airports are in remote areas and only servace a few cities. For exsample if you want to fly on a Contenatal Airlines plane from Denver(hardly a remote city) to anywhere West of Denver(say vegas) you have to either Fly to Newark, New Jersy(east coast), Atlanta, Georga(East Coast), or Houston,Texas(south East of Denver) wich means to Fly WEST from Denver you accually have to fly EAST first.

[Jynnan]

ke'la wrote:

I just looked up a flight from Paris France to Las Vegas leaving Wendsday and returning Sunday(about what it would be going to Fan Fair), guess what? The prices started at $865 round trip toping out at $1813, seeing as this is the ONLY major expence that would be any differant between a US citizen and a Non-Citizen and that a previous poster already said it cost him almost $1200 I would say that your "Logistics" argument just got blown out of the water. And BTW, including layovers you can spend more time flying coast to coast in the US then you can flying from Europe to the US.

... and I still stand by my "exclusive" claim. The poster above you really knocks it on the head - it's all about money and so that still makes it exclusive. How can you say that spending $1813 is a trifling amount for people to pay, and use it to justify your claim that it blows my argument out of the water? If you've got spare money to throw away like that, then good for you, but the numbers of non-US players who showed up at Fanfaire confirm that that is not a trifling amount.

Sheesh!

[ke'la]

Jynnan wrote:

ke'la wrote:

I just looked up a flight from Paris France to Las Vegas leaving Wendsday and returning Sunday(about what it would be going to Fan Fair), guess what? The prices started at $865 round trip toping out at $1813, seeing as this is the ONLY major expence that would be any differant between a US citizen and a Non-Citizen and that a previous poster already said it cost him almost $1200 I would say that your "Logistics" argument just got blown out of the water. And BTW, including layovers you can spend more time flying coast to coast in the US then you can flying from Europe to the US.

... and I still stand by my "exclusive" claim. The poster above you really knocks it on the head - it's all about money and so that still makes it exclusive. How can you say that spending $1813 is a trifling amount for people to pay,I didn't and I notice you glossed over the $865 wich is CHEAPER then what others who live in the US pay. and use it to justify your claim that it blows my argument out of the water? What I am blowing out of the water is this this agrument you gave "You can't tell me that it is more expensive for an internal flight in the US to get to Las Vegas, than a flight from outside of the US?" If you've got spare money to throw away like that, then good for you, but the numbers of non-US players who showed up at Fanfaire confirm that that is not a trifling amount.

Sheesh!

I see you skipped over the $865 lowest price, convinant. You are saying that they are excluding people from outside the US because it costs to much to get to the US. When I PROVED that it is the same price or CHEAPER to get to Vegas from outside the US you then change the "exclution" to cost. Yes, if you can't afford to Pre-Register and goto Fan Fair you don't get a cool cloak, but to say it excludes those outside the US is just flat wrong. It ONLY excludes those unwilling or unable to spend the money to go thier. Guess what there where people who LIVE IN VEGAS that did not want to spend the $80ish Dollars to go there and they are not getting the iteam either. The sad thing is you knew LONG befor now that if you did not goto Fan Fair(wich anyone that wants to go can goto) that you would not be getting an iteam in game that those that went did. It was your CHOICE not to spend the money to go. In order to be excluded from something there has to be NO POSSABLE WAY for you to join in, there was and therefor you where not excluded.

[SG_01]

Let me get this straight, you're complaining about not being able to get a fluff item? Is that it? Seriously, I wouldn't go to Fan Faire just to get an item, that's an utter waste of the money. You could get the item by just pre-registering, even if you where not going to attend.

Really, you didn't need to attend Fan Faire to get the item. But spending $89 just to get this cloak sounds like an utter waste to me.

Aside from all that, the reason they don't do Fan Faires outside of the US, is that it's too expensive to arrange it elsewhere, probably. If not, it'll have to do with the different laws that they'd have to research to even be able to get there.

See, if it's too expensive for you to attend, then why don't you look at it the other way around? How expensive would it be for them to do a Fan Faire here. To start they'd need to fly out a bunch of employees, at the cost that you're not even willing to pay for yourself. Then they need to spend extra to research if they can even hold it, and find a location.

Seriously, what are you thinking?

[Jynnan]

ke'la wrote:

I see you skipped over the $865 lowest price, convinant... It ONLY excludes those unwilling or unable to spend the money to go thier... In order to be excluded from something there has to be NO POSSABLE WAY for you to join in, there was and therefor you where not excluded.

I didn't skip over the $865, I just didn't mention it - didn't need to. (and the word is "convenient&quot

Secondly, you just confirmed my argument for me, and for that I thank you, with the words "It ONLY excludes those unwilling or unable to spend the money ...". So you admit that it is exclusive then?

Finally, you say "In order to be excluded from something there has to be NO POSSABLE (sic) WAY for you to join in". It is not POSSIBLE for me to spare $865, therefore, ipso-facto, I was excluded!

QED

[SG_01]

Do you think he even read my post? ^^

[Jynnan]

SG_01 wrote:

Let me get this straight, you're complaining about not being able to get a fluff item? Is that it? Seriously, I wouldn't go to Fan Faire just to get an item, that's an utter waste of the money. You could get the item by just pre-registering, even if you where not going to attend.

Really, you didn't need to attend Fan Faire to get the item. But spending $89 just to get this cloak sounds like an utter waste to me.

Aside from all that, the reason they don't do Fan Faires outside of the US, is that it's too expensive to arrange it elsewhere, probably. If not, it'll have to do with the different laws that they'd have to research to even be able to get there.

See, if it's too expensive for you to attend, then why don't you look at it the other way around? How expensive would it be for them to do a Fan Faire here. To start they'd need to fly out a bunch of employees, at the cost that you're not even willing to pay for yourself. Then they need to spend extra to research if they can even hold it, and find a location.

Seriously, what are you thinking?

No, I'm not complaining about not being able to get a fluff item; what I'm essentially "complaining" about is that non-US residents tend to miss out on a lot of extras that are offered, simply because of their geographical location. It may seem like a whinge to you, but it is a truism that we pay the same, if not more, to play this game and essentially get less for our money.

There have recently been two "competitions" announced on these forums, both of them were EXCLUSIVELY for US residents! One was a competition to win a makeover for your in-game house and the second was for a "Player of the Year".

SoE, to date, has not come up with anything to make non-US players feel part of the community in the same way that they have for US players. This is fact. It is not made up. Do you understand now how this sort of thing can get up people's noses?

Also, do you really believe that SoE are so impoverished that they can't arrange something in Europe or Australia? They are part of one the world's biggest companies.

Seriously, what are you thinking?

[Jynnan]

SG_01 wrote:

Do you think he even read my post? ^^

No, he didn't. He got a call at work he had to deal with first.

[SG_01]

Jynnan wrote:

SG_01 wrote:

Let me get this straight, you're complaining about not being able to get a fluff item? Is that it? Seriously, I wouldn't go to Fan Faire just to get an item, that's an utter waste of the money. You could get the item by just pre-registering, even if you where not going to attend.

Really, you didn't need to attend Fan Faire to get the item. But spending $89 just to get this cloak sounds like an utter waste to me.

Aside from all that, the reason they don't do Fan Faires outside of the US, is that it's too expensive to arrange it elsewhere, probably. If not, it'll have to do with the different laws that they'd have to research to even be able to get there.

See, if it's too expensive for you to attend, then why don't you look at it the other way around? How expensive would it be for them to do a Fan Faire here. To start they'd need to fly out a bunch of employees, at the cost that you're not even willing to pay for yourself. Then they need to spend extra to research if they can even hold it, and find a location.

Seriously, what are you thinking?

No, I'm not complaining about not being able to get a fluff item; what I'm essentially "complaining" about is that non-US residents tend to miss out on a lot of extras that are offered, simply because of their geographical location. It may seem like a whinge to you, but it is a truism that we pay the same, if not more, to play this game and essentially get less for our money.

There have recently been two "competitions" announced on these forums, both of them were EXCLUSIVELY for US residents! One was a competition to win a makeover for your in-game house and the second was for a "Player of the Year".

SoE, to date, has not come up with anything to make non-US players feel part of the community in the same way that they have for US players. This is fact. It is not made up. Do you understand now how this sort of thing can get up people's noses?

Also, do you really believe that SoE are so impoverished that they can't arrange something in Europe or Australia? They are part of one the world's biggest companies.

Seriously, what are you thinking?

I think you need to reread that. In fact, the "Player of the Year" competition was NOT limited to US residents, only the price of them flying you in was.

Next to that, I don't think you realize the cost of these events. So yea, I think they wouldn't be able to keep their current schedule and host an event in Europe. Besides, they where at the game converence in Berlin, so if you were there, you could meet them. Where you there?

And actually, I think I feel pretty much part of the community, even though I am even further from the US than you are, thank you. As such I did went to the Fan Faire this year, and had a blast. I don't think you even took the time to read where I'm from, now did ya?

[SG_01]

Jynnan wrote:

SG_01 wrote:

Do you think he even read my post? ^^

No, he didn't. He got a call at work he had to deal with first. " width="15" height="15" />

You work that many hours and still arn't able to pay for a trip to the US? Dang.

[Jynnan]

SG_01 wrote:

Jynnan wrote:

SG_01 wrote:

Do you think he even read my post? ^^

No, he didn't. He got a call at work he had to deal with first. " width="15" height="15">

You work that many hours and still arn't able to pay for a trip to the US? Dang.

Actually, I'm due to be made redundant at the end of September, so spending that amount plus accommodation would probably be a bit frivolous or irresponsible, don't you think?

[SG_01]

Jynnan wrote:

SG_01 wrote:

Jynnan wrote:

SG_01 wrote:

Do you think he even read my post? ^^

No, he didn't. He got a call at work he had to deal with first. " width="15" height="15">

You work that many hours and still arn't able to pay for a trip to the US? Dang.

Actually, I'm due to be made redundant at the end of September, so spending that amount plus accommodation would probably be a bit frivolous or irresponsible, don't you think? " width="15" height="15" />

Perhaps. Over here though, I believe they need to try and fit you in somewhere else before they lay you off. Or help you get a new job. That is, unless you are fired for somekind of offense.

[Calthine]

Wow, this is almost as good as when I worked at Flames.  Only without the cussing.  /makes popcorn.

[SG_01]

Calthine wrote:

Wow, this is almost as good as when I worked at Flames.  Only without the cussing.  /makes popcorn.

*hugs Calthine and steals some popcorn*