"My way is the best/only way!"

ScaledMystic · 08-20-2007, 05:16 PM

When it comes to discussing present and future content of EQ2, it is unfortunate that the most time-honored of flamewar catalysts: choice of entertainment, is most often the one and only type of discussion that can be carried on for many pages in a given thread. I've even seen it hijack threads not even originally intended for such an endless and counterproductive argument, such as the one about Unrest being bugged. What I mean, for clarification, is the endless conflict between "soloists," "groupists," and "raiders." Whenever SOE decides to make new content that satisfies one instead of the other, or even, content that attempts to satisfy more than one, sure enough, the next few threads and replies involve the a flamewar between playstyles. Raiders complain whenever solo content is made, or when outside zones are eased down. Groupists don't like when some loot is out of their reach, or when solo content is made. Soloists don't like that a lot of loot is out of their reach, and also the "I chew glass every morning, I am better than you" attitude that raiders tend to have towards them. The flamewars are pointless and neverending. SOE would benefit, GREATLY, from our suggestions and feedback. I just wish that more people would think outside their narrow sphere of preference of entertainment. Raiders, not all of us want to sit around for 40 minutes while some guy on teamspeak rattles off min/max statistics and DKP points. Groupists, not all of us want to have 6 people be able to kill anything in the game. Every game needs its bigger challenges. Soloists, this is an online massively multiplayer game, mmmkay? See? We're all guilty. (I despise raiding, largely due to bad experiences in that-game-which-can't-be-named, so forgive any bias that appears in this post) Not everyone plays the way we, as individuals, play. That's not gonna change. We shouldn't constantly pine for content ONLY to suit our own playstyles. More content is a good thing, and diversity is strength. In short, we should all just get along. More raid content, more group content, more solo content, more bloody content altogether!

Jardon · 08-20-2007, 05:27 PM

And of course you just did the same thing by implying that someone who solos should not be playing a MMORPG.

Please note that the multi-player in MMORPG does not indicate that the many players are playing "together", just that they are online, in the same environment at the same time.

Since I partake of all three types of content, I am always happy when Sony adds new content.

Leatherneck · 08-20-2007, 05:31 PM

Jardon@Antonia Bayle wrote:

And of course you just did the same thing by implying that someone who solos should not be playing a MMORPG.

He also did the same thing to groupers and raiders. That was kinda his point when he said "See? We're all guilty. (I despise raiding, largely due to bad experiences in that-game-which-can't-be-named, so forgive any bias that appears in this post) Not everyone plays the way we, as individuals, play. That's not gonna change. We shouldn't constantly pine for content ONLY to suit our own playstyles. More content is a good thing, and diversity is strength."

StormCinder · 08-20-2007, 05:33 PM

Jardon@Antonia Bayle wrote:

And of course you just did the same thing by implying that someone who solos should not be playing a MMORPG.
Please note that the multi-player in MMORPG does not indicate that the many players are playing "together", just that they are online, in the same environment at the same time.
Since I partake of all three types of content, I am always happy when Sony adds new content.

The point "non-soloists" never seem to get. I agree completely.

SC

ScaledMystic · 08-20-2007, 05:46 PM

Leatherneck wrote:

Jardon@Antonia Bayle wrote:
And of course you just did the same thing by implying that someone who solos should not be playing a MMORPG.
He also did the same thing to groupers and raiders. That was kinda his point when he said "See? We're all guilty. (I despise raiding, largely due to bad experiences in that-game-which-can't-be-named, so forgive any bias that appears in this post) Not everyone plays the way we, as individuals, play. That's not gonna change. We shouldn't constantly pine for content ONLY to suit our own playstyles. More content is a good thing, and diversity is strength."

THANK YOU. Someone gets it. SMILEY

I was anticipating, with dread, one of three canned responses in this thread: "Nuh uh! You're a hypocrit because you said something mean about meeeee!" It's kind of sad. It seems like people cherry-pick threads for things specifically supporting/offending their chosen style of play. It's this "everyone for themself" attitude that hurts us all.

ScaledMystic · 08-20-2007, 05:47 PM

By the way, I solo about 80% of the time, especially in Deserts of Flame. If that didn't become apparent in my first post, well, I guess I did a good job hiding some of my own bias. SMILEY

interstellarmatter · 08-20-2007, 05:50 PM

If there was no drama on the board, no one would come here to post anything.

StormCinder · 08-20-2007, 06:10 PM

My way is MY WAY. If devs are going to tweak the game to accomodate certain playstyles, as they have in the past...then the squeaky wheel gets the oil. It's not the players' fault. The devs pit each playstyle against each other when they make changes that favor one playstyle over another.

If you picture a Venn diagram with 3 overlapping circles, content cannot be limited to the central part of the diagram where all three overlap. So as they add content into the other parts of the diagram, those in the parts not "getting any love" see those that complain getting what they want.

It's human nature. If you think an MMORPG is going to find a way to short-circuit human nature, I'm afraid you're going to be disappointed in the long run. If you're young, and this is your first exposure to this side of human nature...get used to it.

SC

PS. The forums are to the game as talk-radio is to politics--all you hear are the most extreme opinions and probably not the opinions of the majority of players.

ScaledMystic · 08-20-2007, 06:14 PM

StormCinder wrote:

My way is MY WAY. If devs are going to tweak the game to accomodate certain playstyles, as they have in the past...then the squeaky wheel gets the oil. It's not the players' fault. The devs pit each playstyle against each other when they make changes that favor one playstyle over another.
If you picture a Venn diagram with 3 overlapping circles, content cannot be limited to the central part of the diagram where all three overlap. So as they add content into the other parts of the diagram, those in the parts not "getting any love" see those that complain getting what they want.
It's human nature. If you think an MMORPG is going to find a way to short-circuit human nature, I'm afraid you're going to be disappointed in the long run. If you're young, and this is your first exposure to this side of human nature...get used to it.
SC
PS. The forums are to the game as talk-radio is to politics--all you hear are the most extreme opinions and probably not the opinions of the majority of players.

Yes sir, the "get over it/get used to it" nonsense decisively ends any discussion. Not. Oh, bonus points for dragging the age card into it. Very cute, go back under your bridge.

LordPazuzu · 08-20-2007, 08:18 PM

ScaledMystic wrote:

What I mean, for clarification, is the endless conflict between "soloists," "groupists," and "raiders." Whenever SOE decides to make new content that satisfies one instead of the other, or even, content that attempts to satisfy more than one, sure enough, the next few threads and replies involve the a flamewar between playstyles. Raiders complain whenever solo content is made, or when outside zones are eased down. Groupists don't like when some loot is out of their reach, or when solo content is made. Soloists don't like that a lot of loot is out of their reach, and also the "I chew glass every morning, I am better than you" attitude that raiders tend to have towards them. The flamewars are pointless and neverending. SOE would benefit, GREATLY, from our suggestions and feedback. I just wish that more people would think outside their narrow sphere of preference of entertainment. Raiders, not all of us want to sit around for 40 minutes while some guy on teamspeak rattles off min/max statistics and DKP points. Groupists, not all of us want to have 6 people be able to kill anything in the game. Every game needs its bigger challenges. Soloists, this is an online massively multiplayer game, mmmkay? See? We're all guilty. (I despise raiding, largely due to bad experiences in that-game-which-can't-be-named, so forgive any bias that appears in this post) Not everyone plays the way we, as individuals, play. That's not gonna change. We shouldn't constantly pine for content ONLY to suit our own playstyles. More content is a good thing, and diversity is strength. In short, we should all just get along. More raid content, more group content, more solo content, more bloody content altogether!

SOE seems dedicated to providing content for all three of your categories, categories I've used myself. I agree, sometimes people can become very irritable when one category gets something and the others do not. However, SOE seems to produce in cycles, so when one category gets something, you can be sure something is in the pipeline for the other two as well. The only other alternative, that I see anyways, is to sit on finished content until content is completed for all three categories and release them all simultaneously. Of course, then everyone would [Removed for Content] about how long it took between content patches.

Gnobrin · 08-20-2007, 08:19 PM

Ok folks, if you can't reply with considertaion, threads such as this are closed. If such inconsiderate behavior persists, those that choose to degrade topics shall be removed from the forums. Please, have proper respect and courtesy for your fellow forum'ites. If you're caused an issue, tis' a simple task to report the person causing the issue and leaving it be for us to then handle.

~Gnobrin.

08-20-2007, 05:27 PM	#2
Jardon Loremaster Join Date: Feb 2005 Posts: 445	And of course you just did the same thing by implying that someone who solos should not be playing a MMORPG. Please note that the multi-player in MMORPG does not indicate that the many players are playing "together", just that they are online, in the same environment at the same time. Since I partake of all three types of content, I am always happy when Sony adds new content. __________________ Razgar, 90 Dirge/90 Jeweler, Antonia Bayle Jardor, 90 Assassian/90 Tailor, Antonia Bayle Jardon, 90 Guardian/90 Woodworker, Antonia Bayle Raztok, 90 Troubador/90 Alchemist, Antonia Bayle Jardok 90 Bruiser/90 Weaponsmith, Antonia Bayle Razmer, 90 Zerker/90 Armorer, Antonia Bayle Jarrel, 90 Brig/90 Provisioner, Antonia Bayle Raznyk, 80 Wizard/90 Carpenter, Antonia Bayle Jazdar, 90 Inquisitor/90 Sage, Antonia Bayle

08-20-2007, 05:31 PM	#3
Leatherneck Loremaster Join Date: Nov 2004 Posts: 697	Jardon@Antonia Bayle wrote: And of course you just did the same thing by implying that someone who solos should not be playing a MMORPG. He also did the same thing to groupers and raiders. That was kinda his point when he said "See? We're all guilty. (I despise raiding, largely due to bad experiences in that-game-which-can't-be-named, so forgive any bias that appears in this post) Not everyone plays the way we, as individuals, play. That's not gonna change. We shouldn't constantly pine for content ONLY to suit our own playstyles. More content is a good thing, and diversity is strength."

08-20-2007, 05:33 PM	#4
StormCinder Loremaster Join Date: Mar 2005 Posts: 1,009	Jardon@Antonia Bayle wrote: And of course you just did the same thing by implying that someone who solos should not be playing a MMORPG. Please note that the multi-player in MMORPG does not indicate that the many players are playing "together", just that they are online, in the same environment at the same time. Since I partake of all three types of content, I am always happy when Sony adds new content. The point "non-soloists" never seem to get. I agree completely. SC __________________ ______________________________________________ Hostis Humani Generis curÂ·mudgÂ·eon (kr-mjn) n. An ill-tempered person full of resentment and stubborn notions.

08-20-2007, 05:46 PM	#5
ScaledMystic Defender Join Date: Jul 2007 Posts: 31	Leatherneck wrote: Jardon@Antonia Bayle wrote: And of course you just did the same thing by implying that someone who solos should not be playing a MMORPG. He also did the same thing to groupers and raiders. That was kinda his point when he said "See? We're all guilty. (I despise raiding, largely due to bad experiences in that-game-which-can't-be-named, so forgive any bias that appears in this post) Not everyone plays the way we, as individuals, play. That's not gonna change. We shouldn't constantly pine for content ONLY to suit our own playstyles. More content is a good thing, and diversity is strength." THANK YOU. Someone gets it. I was anticipating, with dread, one of three canned responses in this thread: "Nuh uh! You're a hypocrit because you said something mean about meeeee!" It's kind of sad. It seems like people cherry-pick threads for things specifically supporting/offending their chosen style of play. It's this "everyone for themself" attitude that hurts us all.

08-20-2007, 05:50 PM	#7
interstellarmatter Loremaster Join Date: May 2005 Location: A small place Posts: 1,362	If there was no drama on the board, no one would come here to post anything. __________________

08-20-2007, 05:16 PM	#1
ScaledMystic Defender Join Date: Jul 2007 Posts: 31	When it comes to discussing present and future content of EQ2, it is unfortunate that the most time-honored of flamewar catalysts: choice of entertainment, is most often the one and only type of discussion that can be carried on for many pages in a given thread. I've even seen it hijack threads not even originally intended for such an endless and counterproductive argument, such as the one about Unrest being bugged. What I mean, for clarification, is the endless conflict between "soloists," "groupists," and "raiders." Whenever SOE decides to make new content that satisfies one instead of the other, or even, content that attempts to satisfy more than one, sure enough, the next few threads and replies involve the a flamewar between playstyles. Raiders complain whenever solo content is made, or when outside zones are eased down. Groupists don't like when some loot is out of their reach, or when solo content is made. Soloists don't like that a lot of loot is out of their reach, and also the "I chew glass every morning, I am better than you" attitude that raiders tend to have towards them. The flamewars are pointless and neverending. SOE would benefit, GREATLY, from our suggestions and feedback. I just wish that more people would think outside their narrow sphere of preference of entertainment. Raiders, not all of us want to sit around for 40 minutes while some guy on teamspeak rattles off min/max statistics and DKP points. Groupists, not all of us want to have 6 people be able to kill anything in the game. Every game needs its bigger challenges. Soloists, this is an online massively multiplayer game, mmmkay? See? We're all guilty. (I despise raiding, largely due to bad experiences in that-game-which-can't-be-named, so forgive any bias that appears in this post) Not everyone plays the way we, as individuals, play. That's not gonna change. We shouldn't constantly pine for content ONLY to suit our own playstyles. More content is a good thing, and diversity is strength. In short, we should all just get along. More raid content, more group content, more solo content, more bloody content altogether!

08-20-2007, 05:47 PM	#6
ScaledMystic Defender Join Date: Jul 2007 Posts: 31	By the way, I solo about 80% of the time, especially in Deserts of Flame. If that didn't become apparent in my first post, well, I guess I did a good job hiding some of my own bias.

08-20-2007, 06:10 PM	#8
StormCinder Loremaster Join Date: Mar 2005 Posts: 1,009	My way is MY WAY. If devs are going to tweak the game to accomodate certain playstyles, as they have in the past...then the squeaky wheel gets the oil. It's not the players' fault. The devs pit each playstyle against each other when they make changes that favor one playstyle over another. If you picture a Venn diagram with 3 overlapping circles, content cannot be limited to the central part of the diagram where all three overlap. So as they add content into the other parts of the diagram, those in the parts not "getting any love" see those that complain getting what they want. It's human nature. If you think an MMORPG is going to find a way to short-circuit human nature, I'm afraid you're going to be disappointed in the long run. If you're young, and this is your first exposure to this side of human nature...get used to it. SC PS. The forums are to the game as talk-radio is to politics--all you hear are the most extreme opinions and probably not the opinions of the majority of players. __________________ ______________________________________________ Hostis Humani Generis curÂ·mudgÂ·eon (kr-mjn) n. An ill-tempered person full of resentment and stubborn notions.

08-20-2007, 06:14 PM	#9
ScaledMystic Defender Join Date: Jul 2007 Posts: 31	StormCinder wrote: My way is MY WAY. If devs are going to tweak the game to accomodate certain playstyles, as they have in the past...then the squeaky wheel gets the oil. It's not the players' fault. The devs pit each playstyle against each other when they make changes that favor one playstyle over another. If you picture a Venn diagram with 3 overlapping circles, content cannot be limited to the central part of the diagram where all three overlap. So as they add content into the other parts of the diagram, those in the parts not "getting any love" see those that complain getting what they want. It's human nature. If you think an MMORPG is going to find a way to short-circuit human nature, I'm afraid you're going to be disappointed in the long run. If you're young, and this is your first exposure to this side of human nature...get used to it. SC PS. The forums are to the game as talk-radio is to politics--all you hear are the most extreme opinions and probably not the opinions of the majority of players. Yes sir, the "get over it/get used to it" nonsense decisively ends any discussion. Not. Oh, bonus points for dragging the age card into it. Very cute, go back under your bridge.

08-20-2007, 08:18 PM	#10
LordPazuzu Loremaster Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: Tampa, FL Posts: 2,157	ScaledMystic wrote: What I mean, for clarification, is the endless conflict between "soloists," "groupists," and "raiders." Whenever SOE decides to make new content that satisfies one instead of the other, or even, content that attempts to satisfy more than one, sure enough, the next few threads and replies involve the a flamewar between playstyles. Raiders complain whenever solo content is made, or when outside zones are eased down. Groupists don't like when some loot is out of their reach, or when solo content is made. Soloists don't like that a lot of loot is out of their reach, and also the "I chew glass every morning, I am better than you" attitude that raiders tend to have towards them. The flamewars are pointless and neverending. SOE would benefit, GREATLY, from our suggestions and feedback. I just wish that more people would think outside their narrow sphere of preference of entertainment. Raiders, not all of us want to sit around for 40 minutes while some guy on teamspeak rattles off min/max statistics and DKP points. Groupists, not all of us want to have 6 people be able to kill anything in the game. Every game needs its bigger challenges. Soloists, this is an online massively multiplayer game, mmmkay? See? We're all guilty. (I despise raiding, largely due to bad experiences in that-game-which-can't-be-named, so forgive any bias that appears in this post) Not everyone plays the way we, as individuals, play. That's not gonna change. We shouldn't constantly pine for content ONLY to suit our own playstyles. More content is a good thing, and diversity is strength. In short, we should all just get along. More raid content, more group content, more solo content, more bloody content altogether! SOE seems dedicated to providing content for all three of your categories, categories I've used myself. I agree, sometimes people can become very irritable when one category gets something and the others do not. However, SOE seems to produce in cycles, so when one category gets something, you can be sure something is in the pipeline for the other two as well. The only other alternative, that I see anyways, is to sit on finished content until content is completed for all three categories and release them all simultaneously. Of course, then everyone would [Removed for Content] about how long it took between content patches.

08-20-2007, 08:19 PM	#11
Gnobrin Steam-monkey Join Date: Jul 2007 Location: Ak'Anon Posts: 1,007	Ok folks, if you can't reply with considertaion, threads such as this are closed. If such inconsiderate behavior persists, those that choose to degrade topics shall be removed from the forums. Please, have proper respect and courtesy for your fellow forum'ites. If you're caused an issue, tis' a simple task to report the person causing the issue and leaving it be for us to then handle. ~Gnobrin.