Why is fury better dps then warden?

[Tulan]

Been reading thru alot of searched for post, and every keeps saying fury does more dps and dont bother to explain how really, i have seen a few say better nukes, yet there first nuke does not even come to the mid 20's while the warden already has sevral nukes by then. Does the furys power come much later? does there nuke do more damage then the 2 or more the warden has by then? does it recharge fast like the wardens or really slow?

[iceriven2]

Furies get more aoes and nukes that hit for harder.  they also get Int buffs.  And the Kos and EOF AA's compliment Fury DPS nicley and help increase it. Warden get smaller faster casting nukes.  But we don't get any int buffs.  And the kos and EoF AA lines don't favor casting nukes like what the furies get.  In theory (from what i heard down the grape vine)  Without AA A warden should be better at single target while the fury better with aoes.  But self buffs and having to heal comes into play and usually the warden dps isn't that great.  So Furies are built more towards DPSing high while warden if we do have the potential for it tend not to b/c we aren't really built for it.

[TheBu]

The power of the fury comes alot from the int buffs we maintain on the group. Wardens can do very well with ther spells if they raize ther int. My wiz noticed with a similar spell that the wardens did more damage with his when compare with the same int.

Also a fury's damage spells do come in latter. direct nuke @ lvl 23 Thunderbolt line wer a few can be master2s. aoe nuke start at lvl 32 wer some can be master2 picks. other aoe spells come in a bit latter Ring of Fire 55 Call of Storms 65

[Tulan]

Hmm the way you guys talk about it seems the fury comes into his power late in there elveling, so its gonna be boring trying to level one so slowly  in the early game?

[iceriven2]

yeah fury comes in when they get the first DD nuke which if the above poster is right its lvl 23 till then its slow going. But after from what i hear it just gets better and better

[onimarox]

the true answer is this, in Eq2 there are 24 archtypes 12 offencive 12 defencive. fury / warden fall as this Fury = offencive warden = defencive. warden get better cure lines // heal lines // better power management with heals ect..... while fury's get better nukes // offencive buffs // better power management with nukes.

[Rattfa]

You can level to 20 in a day if you try hard enough....even if you dont it doesnt take long before you get the Furies first big nuke (and it is big!) Regardless, Furies have 2 very nice DoTs up till then, and it's certainly not going to take long... When you get your nuke you will pretty much be able to oneshot even con solo mobs, and soloing is a piece of cake. This is when they come into power as far as dps is concerned, and get better all the way through the game. EVERY class gets new abilities in the 40s and 50s that make them stronger...so I guess you could say NO classes become powerful until late in the game.

[Tulan]

whats the cooldown on a nuke that big though?

[Miele]

15 seconds, can be reduced to 10s with AA points. At 23 you get the nuke, at 24 the option to upgrade it at master II, which is the mandatory choice unless you like to nerf yourself. At 32 you get the AE encounter based, with the master II option at 34. Furies do a bit more dps and bit less total healing than wardens given a same number of spell cast and equal spell quality. The gap will generally remain the same till a certain level and increase or decrease dependant on group composition. Give both  the warden and the fury their dream groups and the difference is not so large anymore. Furies tend to have an extra edge because: 1)They buff INT 2)They have better AE damage, especially past lvl 55

[Tulan]

what about single target killing? seems they are the king of AE between the 2 for sure, but would a warden win out with faster casting nukes  over time? they do less damage but cast faster and have more so on paper it seems they can kill a single target quicker.

[Miele]

Tulan wrote:

what about single target killing? seems they are the king of AE between the 2 for sure, but would a warden win out with faster casting nukes  over time? they do less damage but cast faster and have more so on paper it seems they can kill a single target quicker.

They are about the same, with fury slightly ahead, until of course, the fury gets the energy line and then energy vortex (EoF AA tree), from there on there is no comparison. EDIT: to avoid contradicting what I said in my previous post: without AA points, they are about the same, with the energy line, the balance goes in favour of the fury by quite a lot. The warden can convert his nukes in combat arts (or better said: have ALSO the combat arts together with the nukes, but on the same recast timer). These can only be adept I quality and not ad3 or master quality, which adds to the difference stated above, although the CA upgrade with your level and won't need you to get higher quality ones as you'd need for the nukes. I'd really like to see a warden in full melee outfit and with the right buffs, I'm sure it could pack a punch as well and get respectable dps, but it's a setup you rarely witness.

[Dendro]

I have a 66 warden and a 27 fury. The warden CA AAs do a lot of damage, but they have much longer recast timers than their equivalent spells.  Choosing melee spec as a warden is handy for grey-grinding for L&Ls, and I enjoy it in groups because the faster casting time means I can perform my secondary function (dps) more quickly while fulfilling my first (healing). If I were soloing as a warden trying to kill single difficult mobs, I wouldn't spec melee, I'd focus on the druid int line and enhancing my roots on the warden page.  But fury damage spells really are remarkably powerful, and the fury achievements are much better than those for wardens--energy vortex and animal form are amazing.

[iceriven2]

Wardens have some nice DPS potential but it is rarely seen.  the nuking warden lacks Int even in most grp set ups.  take a lot of equipment changes...switching from your healing gear to dps gear while having some int buff casting classes to get your full potential.  Same for melee oriented warden.  I spent a handful of plat buying stuff to try these AA lines out. I managed 260ish str on my own.  Only time i got 500ish is with all the right classes n the grp.  Ppl that have better str have a lot of fabled str items.  Basically wardens can get some nice DPS it just takes all that i stated above to get to it while for furies they get alot of what they need from there own buffing and AA line.  Thats where the big difference in the two class dps comes from...least where i think it comes from.

[MrFurious99]

I'm probably going to offend a few wardens here, but for all the questions you're asking about Fury nukes and such.. Furies *should* be out damaging Wardens in both single target and AE encounters. The only time I can see this being wrong is when a fury and a warden are racing to burn down a mob with little hit points. But, since you don't seem to be in that situation don't worry about it.  All in all, Furies are the offensive druid type.  Wardens are the defensive counter part.  And while we don't get a big nuke until 23 or so, we do get our dots which are more than enough to tide you over.  It doesn't really matter that wardens are receiving their nukes earlier because once you compare the damage between the warden's primary direct damage spell and the fury's Thunderbolt-line nuke.. well, you'll see. I can honestly say that leveling up, there wasn't any stretch of the grind that felt especially bad.  Plus once you hit 55 and get Ring of Fire.. well, life becomes very good. I wouldn't worry too much about casting times and such.  It's so easy to gain AA-xp these days, you can just start out going down the energy line in the EOF tree.  21 points in you'll get Energy Vortex and then you'll become (IMHO) even more untouchable by a warden.

[iceriven2]

MrFurious99 wrote:

I'm probably going to offend a few wardens here, but for all the questions you're asking about Fury nukes and such.. Furies *should* be out damaging Wardens in both single target and AE encounters. The only time I can see this being wrong is when a fury and a warden are racing to burn down a mob with little hit points. But, since you don't seem to be in that situation don't worry about it.  All in all, Furies are the offensive druid type.  Wardens are the defensive counter part.  And while we don't get a big nuke until 23 or so, we do get our dots which are more than enough to tide you over.  It doesn't really matter that wardens are receiving their nukes earlier because once you compare the damage between the warden's primary direct damage spell and the fury's Thunderbolt-line nuke.. well, you'll see. I can honestly say that leveling up, there wasn't any stretch of the grind that felt especially bad.  Plus once you hit 55 and get Ring of Fire.. well, life becomes very good. I wouldn't worry too much about casting times and such.  It's so easy to gain AA-xp these days, you can just start out going down the energy line in the EOF tree.  21 points in you'll get Energy Vortex and then you'll become (IMHO) even more untouchable by a warden.

Yes furies should be top dps and do, and think most wardens here agree with u.  OP asked why furies dps more..wanted the details behind it.  And for a minor side note the whole Furies offensive..true...wardens defensive..so untrue.  The only defensive thing we get that furies dont is sandstorm and if everyone is basing the notion wardens are defensive b/c of it, there wrong.  Where actually more offensive then defensive. 

[Tralex]

To whoever was worrying its going to be slow to 23, don't fret. It goes by extremely quickly. Took me 20 hours to get to 23 and I took it slow so I could do all the quests/AA and tradeskill/harvesting.

[Kocia]

Warden is the defensive variety, fury is the offensive one.  If you dont like it, betray. GG

[MrFurious99]

iceriven2 wrote:

Yes furies should be top dps and do, and think most wardens here agree with u.  OP asked why furies dps more..wanted the details behind it.  And for a minor side note the whole Furies offensive..true...wardens defensive..so untrue.  The only defensive thing we get that furies dont is sandstorm and if everyone is basing the notion wardens are defensive b/c of it, there wrong.  Where actually more offensive then defensive. 

Why DPS more?  The short answer is.. our nukes hit harder. Furies are most offensive based than wardens.  Simple fact.  That is what I was getting at.

[Menaelin]

I've never played a warden, so I'm not sure what their damage spells are like. But I'm a healing spec'd fury (Wild Regeneration/Heal Crits in the Druid tree, Enhanced Hibernation/E-heals/Buffs/Pact of Nature in the EoF tree) and I still sometimes make the parse during raids. I would say that, if I've got the luxury to actually do dps during a raid, I normally parse in the 400-700 range. I can't help but think that a warden similarly spec'd for healing (I'm not sure what their EoF tree looks like) would come in significantly lower than that.

[Kocia]

Fury is not likely to ever see the MT group, but they have higher DPS.  That's the tradeoff.  If you want to be MT healer you gotta be a warden, if you want to have higher dps it's Fury.

[Menaelin]

Kocia wrote:

Fury is not likely to ever see the MT group, but they have higher DPS.  That's the tradeoff.  If you want to be MT healer you gotta be a warden, if you want to have higher dps it's Fury.

This all depends on your guild. If you're around people who respect proven skill over class designations, then you'll get a chance to heal in the MT group as a Fury. At the end of the day, though, it's actually a complement to be asked to heal the mage group, especially if it's full of necros, because that means that the raid leader trusts you to be quick on your toes and prevent the most vulnerable players from dying. Healing the MT group is generally a pretty safe position to be in for a raid healer.

[thebunny]

Menaelin wrote:

Kocia wrote:

Fury is not likely to ever see the MT group, but they have higher DPS.  That's the tradeoff.  If you want to be MT healer you gotta be a warden, if you want to have higher dps it's Fury.

This all depends on your guild. If you're around people who respect proven skill over class designations, then you'll get a chance to heal in the MT group as a Fury. At the end of the day, though, it's actually a complement to be asked to heal the mage group, especially if it's full of necros, because that means that the raid leader trusts you to be quick on your toes and prevent the most vulnerable players from dying. Healing the MT group is generally a pretty safe position to be in for a raid healer.

Couldn't agree more.  IMO it's pretty boring to be a MT healer.  I'd much rather be in the mage group any day.

[DevilsEnvy]

Furies are able to better dps for a couple of reasons.  First off though, it's important to note that the split becomes much more apparent at high levels with max AA.  I'm a level 70 fury with 100AA.

 1. Furies can buff int in two ways, a group int/wis buff and a single target int/pwr buff.  As a fury, my int is much higher than my wis.  In my dps setup, I can self buff my int to around 800, where as my wis is about 550-600.  Higher int = higher spell damage

2. Both share the druid AA tree, so getting max spell crits and disruption will put them on even par with each other.  However, most furies take the int line, but not all wardens do.

3. Fury AA tree, the fury is able to reduce the recast time on many of their nukes by about 1/3.  This means that you can cast your nukes more often, and by doing so, do more damage.

4. Furies get an AA ability that allows your nukes to do 40% more damage and cost 40% more power, while reducing your heal effectiveness by 50%, for a limited time.  As long as your power pool holds up, you can do some serious damage.

 5. Furies are often put in the dps group on raids, which includes a troubador, which greatly increases your dps.  The reason that furies are put in the dps group is because the nature of their heals, as well as their ability to dps.  Furies have a great ability (likely the best) to heal a group up quickly with their group heals.  We get 3 group heals + 1 emerge group heal, and are unmatched in sheer group healing power.

On raid trash, where I'm not healing and in my dps gear, I can easily parse 1500 without miracles, and on a rare occassion hit 2k.

I think that explains the split between warden and fury at the top end, from a dps perspective.

[FrontenStuermer]

The answer were given many times here.

I can only say, in a raid i am in the mt group sometimes...

But more i am in the mage group and thats fine for me.

My last raid i started no heal fighting a named.

i used my "Bengel" the spell to increase the miti from the MT about 2240 and with AA i have a passive healing with 156 each 2 seconds

Otherwise i nuked as much as i can

With my vortex i can make really good damage each 10 seconds.

[Goozman]

Wardens are defensive for a couple reasons; some of which aren't so obvious to the untrained eye.

The warden Primitive Instinct buff, while it may seem offensive, is actually a defensive spell in that it can be cast ont he tank to completely counter the drawbacks of their defensive stance, and allow them to hold aggro. It's a defensive offensive buff.

Wardens get the group defense buff + reactive stun, of which Furies have nothing similar. While many wardens debate its use, particularly in a raiding situation, it is still a defensive buff.

Wardens buff wisdom (and agility to a lesser extent) which gives resists, and power to healers (as healers are defensive classes, in general, giving them more power is also defensive). The agility increases the base avoidance of groupmates. Again, many wardens will debate the use of these abilities (admittedly wisdom and agility are fairly undesirable).

Wardens get a multicure spell that heals quite a bit per effect cured, while Furies get a useless low dps spell that stuns them. This is more evidence of the Warden's defensive nature. Wardens also debate the usefulness of this spell because of its 60 second recast, but I disagree with the complaints and happen to find it pretty nice in both raiding and grouping.

Wardens also get a single target heal proc, which is obviously defensive. I don't believe any warden debates the usefulness of this spell, as it is pretty cool.

And most recently, through EoF aa's, Wardens have become even more "defensive" by being allowed .5s cast combat arts. This allows them to unload all their damage abilities without hindering their ability to heal whatsoever, where a Fury cannot simultaneously unload damage and healing.

Wardens still have the potential to do respectable damage, but can no longer match that of an equally specced/geared Fury, like they could in KoS. You will practically never see Wardens meeting their potential, though, because people who play Wardens are typically not interested in DPS (sad, but true). This would require the STR line combined with the INT line, and the combat arts/crits. With infusion up, spamming group heals, cures, etc inbetween large critical hits and combat arts, a Warden can achieve the DPS of an Inquisitor, Templar, or Mystic (~1500-2000) but won't match the Fury (~2500-3000)

Also here's a breakdown of damage spells (I will not include Call of Storms, as it actually lowers dps) since there's a lot of missinformation about who has more damage spells.

Fury = 1 nuke, 2 Dot's, 1 ae, 1 pbae dot

Warden = 2 nukes, 1 dot, 1 ae, 1 st swarm pet

So as far as damage spells, they are equal. The Fury pulled ahead in EoF when they reduced the recast of their nuke and ae and added in Energy Vortex.

edit: oh and like others have mentioned lulz. Furies can buff INT by  about 210 on level 70, which theoretically increases their spell damage by about 20%. Wardens do not buff STR or INT and miss out on that regard.

[Laithi]

How odd.  I have been in both groups and I have done better then any other healer that they put into the MT group and better then anyone in the Mage group.  I guess it doesn't really have anything to do with class and all to do with player skill.....gasp...oh no not skill.

[MullenSkywatcher]

I think most of the information here is spot on, with good comparative analysis.  I think going STR/INT loses too much healing in the crits (STA) to be worth the extra damage from Infusion, but I cant argue it would be more DPS.  Tougher for the melee warden to get STR than the fury to get INT, with the current buff setup, but not impossible (although I don't think I could hit 800 STR without spending a lot of DKP and looking over my shoulder for angry guild monks/bruisers.)

 Thanks for posting well thought out (and accurate!) information.  So rare these days...