Some help with Master Spells possibly?

[Kwoung]

Any chance Test can get the PVP spell swap merchant (or a modified version)?

I have been playing here since day one and many of my T7 masters have either never dropped or are hidden away in someones bank, I just keep seing the same ones I have for sale over and over. I have no issue getting Masters in general, just ones I need. I think it would help the server considerably if we had a way to "Master up" our spells and abilities. If this was live, I would have bought them all eons ago off the broker (regardless of cost), but here it is a huge issue. Maybe I am confused about how it works on PVP, but if here on Test we could hand in a Master from any class and get one of our own back, even if a random one, that would improve my chances of getting a wizard master at least 100 fold.

Any chance of it happening or do you think it would corrupt the environment somehow? I personally think it would just help us get a bit closer to live gear wise. Which btw, other gear is not a big issue, I am pretty much wearing all fabled with some ledgendary pieces tossed in from our years of raiding here and have all the adornments added I need (including fabbled ones)... its just my spells that need help... I never see them!

[edbaja]

I agree. It would also be nice to have a merchant that you can buy spells and gear and such from, even at 1-2p a piece for T7. Some people don't want to bother harvesting and/or crafting [such as myself hehe].

[ZeyGnome]

Although it sucks not getting the things we want, this is no different than asking for a buff-bot, which you know is what a lot of the flames are coming from (besides the copies).

We can't have it both ways, either we are a self-sufficient server that trys to mimic Live as close as possible or we are a server environment that is strictly buff and gear capable. (and copy capable too, since once you start handing our gear/spells, you might as well allow copies)

At what point does the line get drawn?  For you its Masters, for others its fabled bear, and then poisons, potions, and repair kits?

There's weaponry on the broker right now that I badly want, but they are for trade only (and fabled) and yet I have nothing of value to trade.  As a Monk, I am not as effective as I could be with those fist weapons, but I wouldn't even think about asking for a vendor-bot to serve them up for me.  I make do with what I have the best I can and test what I can with what I have.  I knew coming into this server what the situation would be like.  

Not meaning to be a grinch, sorry,  I know you've been asking around for some things for a while, but this is not a solution that would benefit the current test server as it was set up.

[Kwoung]

ZeyGnome wrote:

Although it sucks not getting the things we want, this is no different than asking for a buff-bot, which you know is what a lot of the flames are coming from (besides the copies).

Actually it is different and I am not asking for a buff bot, I am asking for functionality that is being used on Live servers already, just the PvP ones though.. and while I am not, SOE is well aware of exactly what type of impact this may have. If you noticed, I am also not asking for anything "free", like the pickle you are in with the trade only broker junk, if you have no master spell to turn in, you can not get one. This does not add anything into our environment, it just makes what is already here useful.

On a side note, there IS a HUGE difference between making something useful for players who have dedicated/proven themselves to playing here and helping out, and putting a system in place that would buff and gear up any random person to drops in for an hour.

PS: As for whomever has the item you want/need and will not let go of it, they are an idiot. It is not like the server is flooded with any class, and the item in question will probably end up rotting on the broker if they are going to be picky about letting it go. Not to mention, we are getting 10 more levels soon.. so their item will then become pointless to have anyways... making it even less desireable.

[edbaja]

Actually making it so you can buy all Adept 3's and Mastercrafted gear for level 50+ would be a good way of doing it. We are not asking for Fabled gear, and what Kwoung was asking for [I think] is an NPC that if you give it a master you can get one for your class in return of the same level. Also, by *buy* I mean just that. They wouldn't be freebies, you would actually have to work and level on Test to purchase them. The amount of time you'd spend harvesting to get the rare and finding the sage or w/e would be equivalent to the amount of time it takes you to kill mobs to gain x amount of platinum to pay for spells or armor or w/e. There is a HUGE difference as Kwoung stated between this and buff-bots or fabled gear merchants.

[ZeyGnome]

But see, you've already expanded it.  First it was Kwoung wanting the Master spells, now you've added the gear because you don't like crafting/harvesting.  Then other people will want more.  It's a trend and if it starts, it won't stop.

What about guild items?  It's very hard to level a guild on Test so the big houses are not available to most, along with crafting machinery, title, etc.  Why not include a way to increase the guild levelling capability on Test?

I do understand where you are coming from, believe me.  I am not one of the 'it's not a game unless you sweat blood' crowd and I despise the unavailability of certain items on Test, but once it starts, it won't stop because everyone has their pet peeves that could be solved by adding another shortcut.

[Kwoung]

Nothing but Master Spell IMHO, everything else is obtainable, much of it rather easilly here. Getting full sets of mastercrafted armour or adept 3's takes a weekend of work at most. I have also just watched a close long term friend who was previously really casual, go from treasured to almost full Ledg/Fabled gear in a couple short months of semi-raiding here. The ONLY thing I see as an issue, is our spells, everything else is obtainable through normal hunting. Master spells though, work off a rotating table, so not all have a chance of dropping at any given time, some are only obtainable in certain zones, many of which see little to no action here on test, and even when you do hunt those zone, you have a better chance of winning the lottery than getting a Master spell you can use. In 3 years and 70 levels, I have had exactly 2 master spells drop that I could scribe. I have passed on, sold or munged hundreds of them though, during that time.

 I am as against buff bots and free gear as much, if not more, than the next guy here.. I DO consider Master spells, because of how they need to be obtained and how they drop, an exception to the rule though... but still not "free". Hell, I would even be willing to trade in 3-5 of them to get back one I could actually use.

[edbaja]

Never did I say it would be *free* to get gear or spells from the merchants. The price of which I imagine would be significant enough that it took more work to get the platinum to purchase them. It's a way of relieving the hassle. On live you can spend platinum to purchase rares off the broker. Your lucky to see more than two of any given T2+ rare raws on the broker here on test at any given time. On live, yes this isn't a good idea. However unless you've got a stockpile of about 200 of every tier every type of rare raw there is sitting around that you would be willing to put on the broker for 50g to 2p a piece, this can be useful here. You can argue that "It's obtainable by going out and harvesting etc for a weekend" and yeah sure that's true, but when it comes right down to it, your master spells are in the game. You just have to put the work in to find them. True, it can take hours, weeks, months to find even one of the 20ish 58+ masters your class needs, but that's just it. It is possible. Now I don't know what exactly this game's economy was built around, but on live, you are able to purchase just about anything that isn't no-trade so long as you have the plat. Test isn't like live, you/we have our precious economy[? what economy ? all I see is a whole bunch of [I'll hack my own expletive's, thank you.] on the broker that people will only give up for stuff they can use, never accept plat, donations, or anything else]. Therefore your Master merchant, my spells/gear merchant [mastercrafted not even legendary nor fabled] would be not only acceptable here in this community, but well used, paying close attention to the T6 and above only section. However, when you bring up the point ZeyGnome made... We can't have it both ways. So decide on what you all want, a *completely* self sufficient server mimicking a true live one, or one that supports buffs, copies, and all the other [once again I'm going to hack my own expletive] that comes along with that. Take into consideration that in order to properly test difficult raid content as it is released, we need a solid group of 24 [max level, whatever it is at the time] experienced, consistent players. We are working to that now, and I hope to see that idea fluctuate. If a fine line was drawn with a mastercrafted / adept3 merchant and a master spell buyback merchant, not pushing any further than that, we'd have quite a few more players willing to play here, because there time getting from 1-70 would not only be shorter, it would be easier. More like live. /rant off. I apologize to anyone I may have offended, and for my wishywashyness. No sleep will do it to you.

[EtoilePirate]

Honestly, I think they're all bad ideas. With the Masters, it's just a matter of Really Bad Luck for Kwoung, I have to say.  I mean, Kella's never been the first in line for Assassin masters and even so she's only missing a handful (and none of those are the really important ones -- and most of them are the 56-60 range as opposed to the 60-70 so they won't even matter soon anyway).  And even with as much competition as there is for Fury Masters -- because everyone and their grandmother has a Fury -- I've got several T7 M1s banked for Nimari, waiting for her to level.  (So... close... to... 60... ) The slope really is too slippery.  The second there's any sort of handout program -- even an expensive one -- is the second we start to lose the Test we've had and is the second we start to become the buff & copy Test the whiners think they want. (And frankly, we also NEED the Masters that no-one wants.  Kwoung, you're in the Guild That Ate Manhattan nowadays so maybe adornments are easier for you to come by, but a lot of the rest of us still have a lot of work to do there.)

[Aela@Test]

I agree 100% with Ssilan. 

 (and Kella)

[Purr]

I do too. And I have yet to solo anything that drops me any master of a usuable level.

 Purr~

[nat_lyte]

well really i think it is a VERY slippery slope, and i think there are other ways of helping us that dont involve handouts,  like in the " did you know" thing on the launcher  " did you know playing on test can get you special access to beta testing " did you know " UT is the guild that ate manhattan" did you know, "players on the test server get 50% more xp and free cookies" (spark) that just gave me a great idea! but yeah slippery slope, i think there are ways around the problems without creating new ones, everyone had some really good valid points but in the end......

[edbaja]

Not to mention some of us get /nibbles from youknowwho

[Kwoung]

EtoilePirate wrote:

(And frankly, we also NEED the Masters that no-one wants.  Kwoung, you're in the Guild That Ate Manhattan nowadays so maybe adornments are easier for you to come by, but a lot of the rest of us still have a lot of work to do there.)

I take ofence at that, Zindi and I spent a good 3 months doing littl more than farming Masters, much like Aela and crew. The guild we are in has NOTHING to do with my adornments, Zin and I spent months of time collecting masters and other drops to have munged to make them... and I had them BEFORE I joined UT. Yes, some of you do have a lot of work to do, but that does not mean I haven't already done it.

As for bad luck with masters, yeah I guess so. The only folks on the server that have farmed them mor than Zin and I to my knowledge are Aela and crew, and I still need most of mine after months of hard core farming for them.

[Aela@Test]

Okay..  I take offenese to THAT.

Ironically, we never farmed masters. Never.  Not one.  We also haven't munged a single master (unlike others here)..mainly because there are people out there who still need them.  If i can trade one of the masters we have looted..for a master that one of the Alat-Seldi people can use then thats more valuable to me then a munge, at least right now.   Any time you see us in a dungon, we're working quests.  Most of our 60+ masters came out of the SoS questline, Class Hats, and Claymore lines. 

Had you not munged the master drops you got, maybe you'd have something to trade for the spells you need.  But thats a whole seperate discussion.

[EtoilePirate]

Kwoung wrote:

EtoilePirate wrote:

(And frankly, we also NEED the Masters that no-one wants.  Kwoung, you're in the Guild That Ate Manhattan nowadays so maybe adornments are easier for you to come by, but a lot of the rest of us still have a lot of work to do there.)

I take ofence at that, Zindi and I spent a good 3 months doing littl more than farming Masters, much like Aela and crew. The guild we are in has NOTHING to do with my adornments, Zin and I spent months of time collecting masters and other drops to have munged to make them... and I had them BEFORE I joined UT. Yes, some of you do have a lot of work to do, but that does not mean I haven't already done it.

As for bad luck with masters, yeah I guess so. The only folks on the server that have farmed them mor than Zin and I to my knowledge are Aela and crew, and I still need most of mine after months of hard core farming for them.

Take offense if you want, where none was meant or given, but I won't change my statement.  Part of the inherent advantage of and desire for a large guild comes from the ability of members to provide other members with goods and services.  That's what guilds DO.  They take care of each other.

[Kwoung]

EtoilePirate wrote:

Take offense if you want, where none was meant or given, but I won't change my statement.  Part of the inherent advantage of and desire for a large guild comes from the ability of members to provide other members with goods and services.  That's what guilds DO.  They take care of each other.

My bad, sorry for the misconstrue Kella!

I guess we all have our quirks, some think using Masters to upgrade gear with adornments or even farming them is a bad thing, I generally take it as a bad thing when folks think I have not worked for what I got. And you are correct, guild members do/should take care of each other, I tend to give away a lot myself and not ask for much in return and generally prefer to pay someone if they do have something for me.. I am just wierd that way. I guess I feel indepted when folks help me out and since my memory suxxors, I know I will forget who has done what for me... heh.

[Zindicatt]

The program Kwoung suggested is not "hand-outs", nor is it so special.  It is on PvP already.  It requires that you already have a Master to trade for the one you need.  To get a Master, you need to kill the mobs that drop them.  So you have already worked for it.  Correct me if I am wrong, but I am under the impression that the drop table for Master spells do not spread evenly among all named mobs and they do not all have the same chance to drop.  That means if some mobs are never killed, some masters will never drop.  That also means that if not enough named-killing is going on, some masters will have very little chance to drop.  Due to the low population of Test server and the fact that some nameds have never been killed, I would assume that it will take a much longer time for Test to see some of the Masters. In the context of trying to get to the top tier game with the current Test population so we are in a better position to test all of the content, we thought perhaps if we had had our Masters, it would make us a strong army. 

That's what the idea was based on.  We do have our own experience to back it up.  Between Jaly, Kwoung and myself, we have opened many Exquisit Chests (some know that we hunted in Nek 3, MCC and SoS regularly prior to our little excursion to LOTRO) but have yet found even 1/5 of the Masters we need.  Nor have we seen them on the broker.  I have not picked up one single Defiler Master of my own, even though I have been on countless raids and hunts and in many cases, I was the only T7 defiler in the group or on the Raid.  A few people on the server have been giving me the few Master spells I own today and sometimes I get offered the same spells over and over again.  Without them, I would have had none.  But even now, I still do not own any of my key masters.  Not one.   

I can see the reasons both ways but I thought it is not an outragious thing to ask for, given our experience.  If your experience differ, do speak up. But I do ask that you take an idea as an idea, instead of some base for personal judgements. 

[Kwoung]

I have still not seen anyone post why implementing this functionality on Test that already exists on some live servers is a bad idea... other than a few folks who misinterpretted what I posted to think it is some sort of hand out program.

Any chance we could have this so we could accelerate our ability a bit to test the higher end content? (and by accelerate, I mean getting us to a point less than 2 years behind what they do on live).

[ZeyGnome]

You know, just because we don't agree with you doesn't mean we misinterpreted your request.  I know exactly what you are asking for and reading the other responses, they do as well.  You want a mechanism that was created for PvP servers moved to the PvE environment of Test.   It was created on the PvP servers because the changes to the loot code (not tables) would be daunting, though I am betting that we might see that particular thing going away on PvP soon considering they have made headway by being able to assign class specific loot drops and it probably could (and may be) extended to things like this.

Since you are saying we are misinterpreting your intent, you are dismissing the comments against the idea.  What is being said is that when you start making allowances of this sort, then suddenly the flood gates are opened and other requests for things of this nature are going to be made also.  You can't deny this, especially since right after you posted this, Dugger added an extension to this by way of a vendor to sell items of a certain level and up.

You've had rotten luck, and people don't seem to trade as much as you want them to, this is also a problem on Live, though not to the degree it is here.   Maybe a better tack would be to start a thread asking if this new, tuned loot code could be extended to Master drops so that people on a raid (or group) could get the drops that would most be appropriate to the people actually on the hunt.  This would benefit you and the Live servers and would fit more in the mission of the Test server.

If you start with one request of this nature, then it will balloon.  Why would you expect it to stop with this one request anyway, and why should it, other people can come up with other valid reasons to extend it to other things.

I'm sorry I disagree with you but I think this is a very bad idea and will set a very bad precedent if it was implemented, but I understand what you are asking for, so please don't say I don't.

[Kwoung]

They already have functionality on Test that doesn't exist on Live that has a much great impact than this would, ie: 1.5x XP. Anyhow, if you do not agree, please at least post a valid reason why not, just saying you do not agree doesn't carry much weight in a debate, nor does saying if they make one change it will open the flood gates to many others. Since that obviously didn't happen with 1.5x XP gain here on Test, I would say the only valid example we have of differing from live proves just the opposite. I have not seen any flood of Test only changes in the past few years since they implemented that functionality.

Whether some see it or not, getting Master spells on Test is a valid issue, with very similar reasons (only compounded) to why they implemented what they did on PvP. On PVP they are restricted to trading with only half the normal server population, so they receieved a special vendor to make up for the one area in which it actually hurt them. On test we have 1/10th the normal population to trade with, so why not here as well? SOE already decided that Master Spells are a special case (not me) and made adjustments on the PVP servers, I am simply asking they possibly look at our economy as well amd possibly offer the same adjustment for much the same reason.

And once again, our entire point of being here is to "Test", if we are unable to do so effectively because our population is not only smaller, but many of the players here have a much different mindset than a live server player, then something does need to be done to compensate for that. having a group or three of players that occassionally hunt areas that have a chance of dropping master spells, is not good enough, on live the areas that drop masters are almost all hunted nearly 24x7. This issue does not exist on live, there is narry a raider there in any decent force that is not fully Mastered. On Test only the classes whose spells drop commonly in easy places have full masters, the rest of us are pretty much out of luck.

[ZeyGnome]

Why is opening the floodgates not a valid reason?  Because you don't think its a valid reason?

So what about Dugger's request?  Does that not illustrate something?

You don't think its a valid reason, I do. 

[Kwoung]

ZeyGnome wrote:

Why is opening the floodgates not a valid reason?  Because you don't think its a valid reason?

So what about Dugger's request?  Does that not illustrate something?

You don't think its a valid reason, I do. 

Because in the only example of that possibly happening, it didn't. And no, his post does not illustrate anything, any more than live players asking for copies, etc does. Like I said, SOE decided that Master Spells are a special case, not me, I am just asking that they extend to us what they have already done elsewhere. I also trust SOE to use all the data they have on how it affected the servers on which it was implemented, to decide whether or not they should do it here... not just use an "opinion" whether it is yours, mine or anyone elses.

[Kwoung]

On a related note, SOE is ALWAYS looking for ways to entice players to come play on Test, I think this addition would also suit that purpose very well.

[Bre]

Kwoung's point about SOE's looking for ways to entice players to come to Test I feel is a very valid one. Lets face it guys, we are not testing everything the game has to offer. Not because of lack of desire or skill or dedication, but it is due to a lack of populace. I don't believe SOE is wanting thousands upon thousands of players here, but as it stands right now we do need more than what we have. Why not another bonus feature? The addition of a master trade merchant is already ingame. It is working so it's not like we are forging new ground here. There is no easy button being pushed because it is a M1 (random I think) trade. So I guess I am failing to see what is bad here.

And to address the whole slippery slope thing. If we stayed the same way forever and never risked a change, then how would we ever hope to catch up. Because as it stands right now, we are just falling further behind. Some action must be taken. And I for one am all for trying out something as small as a m1 trade merchant. Maybe it will help, maybe it won't. But to deny the effort seems to be a bad decision. If you want proof that something needs to be done then all you have to do is ask around about how many times Mayong, Hurricanus, MO, 3P, EH, TNT, DT, CMF, MMIS, PHH, or Any Avatar has been beaten. The answer is 0.

Something needs to be done. I'm just hoping it will be a small change first.

Brega

[Zeral498]

Brega wrote:

Kwoung's point about SOE's looking for ways to entice players to come to Test I feel is a very valid one. Lets face it guys, we are not testing everything the game has to offer. Not because of lack of desire or skill or dedication, but it is due to a lack of populace. I don't believe SOE is wanting thousands upon thousands of players here, but as it stands right now we do need more than what we have. Why not another bonus feature? The addition of a master trade merchant is already ingame. It is working so it's not like we are forging new ground here. There is no easy button being pushed because it is a M1 (random I think) trade. So I guess I am failing to see what is bad here.

Brega

It's going to be a 2-way street. Although implementing a Master-Trading merchant may lure some more people onto the Test Server, it's going to drive some players such as myself out. The more extra features we get, the more I feel like a 2nd hand citizen, and the more I feel like I'm playing a different game than everyone else. More features on the Test Server will create a further gap between the Live/Test Players because it will seem that we're not a "real" server. I don't know how many people share my feelings, but I assure you that I'm not the only one. EDIT: Other than this possible consequence, it's not a bad idea IMO. I personally embrace change and progress, so I say go with the change and see what happens. You might lose some people but you'll might also get some new blood.

[Kethaera]

Correct me if I'm wrong, but I thought the way the master trade thing worked on PvP was if you're, say, good side and get an evil side master, you could take it to the NPC and get back a random good side master so that you could sell it on the broker. I'm not really sure how this would help us, since we can sell to both sides.

[Kwoung]

I believe the way it works there actualy, is you get a cross class spell back. So say you trade a Paly spell in, you get a SK spell back, or Necro/Conj etc.. I am asking for a slight modification of that, where we trade in any class master(or 2-3) and get a random one back for your class (or a selectible class if it is to hard to detect what class the person is). The similarity we have to PVP is, there they get a wasted drop because that class does not play their side, so the Master Spell is pure vendor trash or mungable. Here you get a wasted drop, because the only person (or few people) that play that class, already have that spell.

Like Zindi pointed out and I have the same experience, we get offered the same 4-5 Master spells for our class constantly, and we scribed them years ago.. meanwhile, the ones we want and need to progress, never turn up.

Volgrant, this would actually make Test more similar to Live that different. On Live, you go out and hunt, you get a Master Spell drop you can not use, so you put it up for sale on the broker and sell it. You then use your proceeds to turn around and buy one you can use right off the broker, because on live the spells you need ARE there for sale. Granted, if you are after a high demand rare spell, you may need to sell multiple more common Masters (or other things) before being able to afford the one you want(thus my suggestion of making it 2-3 to one trade rate), but the end result is the same... If you take the time to make the plats needed, you can generally buy what you need directly off the broker. On Test you can not do that, we are missing a huge piece of the game here because of our population, this idea would correct the anomoly we have on Test, not make us more different that Live.

[Zeral498]

Kwoung wrote:

Volgrant, this would actually make Test more similar to Live that different. On Live, you go out and hunt, you get a Master Spell drop you can not use, so you put it up for sale on the broker and sell it. You then use your proceeds to turn around and buy one you can use right off the broker, because on live the spells you need ARE there for sale. Granted, if you are after a high demand rare spell, you may need to sell multiple more common Masters (or other things) before being able to afford the one you want(thus my suggestion of making it 2-3 to one trade rate), but the end result is the same... If you take the time to make the plats needed, you can generally buy what you need directly off the broker. On Test you can not do that, we are missing a huge piece of the game here because of our population, this idea would correct the anomoly we have on Test.

Although you may simulate the environment, the mechanics of the game is going to change. This is going to be an instant turn-off to all the semi-hardcore/hardcore players. I can already picture the guys on EQ2Flames stroking their egos, who would probably say something along the lines of, "Hahaha what a n00b server, they can't even play the game the way its meant to be played." In their eyes, the Test Server is the crap-shoot. So what about the casuals? They probably don't even know this server exists. I'm drawing a number out of my bum, but I'd say that only about 20%-40% of the EQ2 population reads these forums actively. My point being that most casual people don't tend to read these boards. And if you don't read the forums actively, you'd probably have no idea that the Test Server exists. Even by chance you learned of its existence, you'd have no desire to go there. So if you implement a Master-Trade-In system, what will happen? It will help the current players on the Test Server immensely. Great! But it's not going to help our population problem at all, whatsoever. And THAT is the root of ALL of our problems. So how do we get our population up? I say we treat the Test Server more like a Live Server. For a start, I say do the following: - Don't call it the Test Server. Call it something else. Kerafrym Server. Darathur Server. Venril Sathir Server. Whatever. Just not the "Test Server." Put a parenthesis next to it with (Test PvE) inside it. - Somehow, list the server as a playable server during character creation process on Live. I know this is problematic since Test and Live uses different client builds, but by having it appear on the character creation process, it's going to lure a lot more casual players. Casuals probably don't know how to do the copy/paste-make-your-own-Test-directory thing we have to do to play the Test Server, so by making it all automatic, we'll probably get a lot of new blood. If the devs can get this to work, I think it will help a lot. - Representation in EQ2Players. If we're included, we become more of a real server.

[Kwoung]

The true Hardcore players will never play on Test and always spew garbage out about us on their flame board, regardless of what happens here. Those type of players are not playing the game to help or test it, they are playing to stroke their egos, and playing on Test doesn't do it and never will for them.

As for your assumption that no one will hear about any bonus on Test, I disagree. In my years here I have seen the question asked in test channel by a new players here more times than I can remember, "Is it true you have a XP bonus here on Test?". That in itself proved 2 things, they not only found our server, but also somehow heard about both the XP Bonus AND our hardly advertised Test Channel. People do hear things and the word does get around over time.

Getting the word out to play on Test is SOE's job, having another carrot to dangle makes it easier, they have many communication options to announce things to players, these forums are but one of them. They have already attracted a good number of the current players here with the XP bonus. They have also lost a good many of them, because our broker system is borked and those players could not buy much of what they are used to having available on Live. My idea would not only attract new players, but would in a small way, also address the broker issue those that do come here have. Currently, you have to be half masochist and love doing everything the hard way to play on Test, I think that most of the playerbase does not fall into that category, and reducing the hardship factor would definately help our server grow.

Also, I am not going to turn this into a "How to get players on test" thread. That can be a seperate thread, there are a ton of ideas on how to do that, many of which have been hashed out already over the years.