Which Cloak to use

[foomonk]

Fellow Monks

I know this has probably been covered before. Which cloak would you wear? The Cloak of Flames or the Cloak of Valor. Both have there upsides. The real question is does the DPS modifier on the Cloak of Valor out weigh the haste boost from the Cloak of Flames.

Fooguy

Guk

70 Monk/70 Prov

[kleiner_drache]

I use the Cloak of Valor because I am already at max haste.

[Prothos]

Use Valor

[Morrolan V]

Valor absolutely.

Get every DPS buff you can find.  Period.

[Zabjade]

How does one get the Valor Cloak? Is it a raid drop or a questline? Atm all I have is the Mastercrafted cloak and it's haste buff.

Neeed DDDPPPPSSSSSS           o.o

[Ja]

It's from the Mithaniel Marr Deity Quest. mfg Javo

[Bladewind]

I'd go for the life tap cloak from Unrest.

[Zabjade]

Bladewind wrote:

I'd go for the life tap cloak from Unrest.

Considering I'm Agnostic so Mithy's cloak is out,  how does one get the Lifetap cloak Lifetap is almost as good as DPS as it keeps you alive.

[Bladewind]

I think it is much better than the Valor cloak.  It gives a life tap proc, +12str and either sta or agi, and some health+power vs the 50 str/16 dps proc on the valor cloak.  It is a rare drop off of Garanel - boss mob of the zone.

[Zabjade]

I thank you for the information...Dang if only there were more groups on when I need them lol. I don't get much time other then week-ends but for some reason I see few groups gathering...might have to lok for more pick-ups.

[Cirth_Beer]

valor or +2% crit cloak (drop of named of mmis)

[BChizzle]

Ya mayongs cloak is great

[Xanthar]

I think it depends on how much haste you have without the Cloak of Flames. I wear the Cloak of Flames, but I have arm guards that give me 20 haste. I need a different cloak. The CoF is only giving me an additional 5 haste, since haste does not stack when on gear, you only get the highest overall value. I am working on getting the Valor Cloak. However, if you only have a 10 haste modifier from your gear, maybe you wear the Cloak of Flames until you get higher gear haste.

I think haste is the better stat. It works full-time. A 2% crit chance means 2 of 100 attacks will crit for a higher damage than they would have otherwise. So, if your attack would have hit for 500 (we're talking about Monks here, not Assassins), but it crits for 750 (150% gain), that's a benefit of an additional 500 damage in 100 attacks. That may not change your DPS enough to up it 1 whole number. I'm assuming when a Monk ability crits it's not an inflated number like 200% or 300% of the original damage value. Obviously, if it is then my theory would change.

I like higher haste. It seems to be more consistent. It's hard to measure and compare, though, because haste is a real number that's part of the overall modifier (I think 200 max), while crit chance is a percentage of 100. Stats and abilities would be much easier to choose if everything was based off a percentage (apples to apples).

Summary: if the haste cloak ups your haste 20, or maybe even 15, I'd go haste. If it only ups it 5 or even 10, the Valor cloak is probably the way to go.

[Squigglle]

kleiner_drache wrote:

I use the Cloak of Valor because I am already at max haste.

whats max?

[BChizzle]

Xanthar@Unrest wrote:

I think it depends on how much haste you have without the Cloak of Flames. I wear the Cloak of Flames, but I have arm guards that give me 20 haste. I need a different cloak. The CoF is only giving me an additional 5 haste, since haste does not stack when on gear, you only get the highest overall value. I am working on getting the Valor Cloak. However, if you only have a 10 haste modifier from your gear, maybe you wear the Cloak of Flames until you get higher gear haste.

I think haste is the better stat. It works full-time. A 2% crit chance means 2 of 100 attacks will crit for a higher damage than they would have otherwise. So, if your attack would have hit for 500 (we're talking about Monks here, not Assassins), but it crits for 750 (150% gain), that's a benefit of an additional 500 damage in 100 attacks. That may not change your DPS enough to up it 1 whole number. I'm assuming when a Monk ability crits it's not an inflated number like 200% or 300% of the original damage value. Obviously, if it is then my theory would change.

I like higher haste. It seems to be more consistent. It's hard to measure and compare, though, because haste is a real number that's part of the overall modifier (I think 200 max), while crit chance is a percentage of 100. Stats and abilities would be much easier to choose if everything was based off a percentage (apples to apples).

Summary: if the haste cloak ups your haste 20, or maybe even 15, I'd go haste. If it only ups it 5 or even 10, the Valor cloak is probably the way to go.

Wrong when you throw in dps mods and a higher spread weapon you will crit for 1500 and crits become way more important.

[Ramius613]

Squigglle wrote:

kleiner_drache wrote:

I use the Cloak of Valor because I am already at max haste.

whats max?

I think by max he means ~130ish, which is about the maximum a monk can achieve self buffed.  I run about that with Master Everburning Flame, Group haste buff, Mark of awakening.  200 is the cap, and is usually only achieved with other class buffs

[Squigglle]

Ramius613 wrote:

Squigglle wrote:

kleiner_drache wrote:

I use the Cloak of Valor because I am already at max haste.

whats max?

I think by max he means ~130ish, which is about the maximum a monk can achieve self buffed.  I run about that with Master Everburning Flame, Group haste buff, Mark of awakening.  200 is the cap, and is usually only achieved with other class buffs

haha 200 haste would be awsome, thats what? 0.5 attack speed?

[BChizzle]

Squigglle wrote:

Ramius613 wrote:

Squigglle wrote:

kleiner_drache wrote:

I use the Cloak of Valor because I am already at max haste.

whats max?

I think by max he means ~130ish, which is about the maximum a monk can achieve self buffed.  I run about that with Master Everburning Flame, Group haste buff, Mark of awakening.  200 is the cap, and is usually only achieved with other class buffs

haha 200 haste would be awsome, thats what? 0.5 attack speed?

You have to keep in mind that they have that curve and past 130 or so you really don't get much return for adding more speed.

[Bewts]

DPS

Critical

Damage Proc

Haste

Thats my order, although I tend to stick with the 2% critical cloak in most situations.  If I find myself with a bunch of sorcerors, its DPS mod instead.

[Xanthar]

BChizzle wrote:

Wrong when you throw in dps mods and a higher spread weapon you will crit for 1500 and crits become way more important.

My point is that if you crit for, as you say, 1500, twice every minute (2%), what's the real gain? The CA that hit critical may have hit for 700 or 800 without the crit. So, you can't take that raw number (1500) and say that's your gain for using a crit stat.

Don't underestimate haste. Look at the whole picture.

[Fleaba]

Xanthar@Unrest wrote:

BChizzle wrote:

Wrong when you throw in dps mods and a higher spread weapon you will crit for 1500 and crits become way more important.

My point is that if you crit for, as you say, 1500, twice every minute (2%), what's the real gain? The CA that hit critical may have hit for 700 or 800 without the crit. So, you can't take that raw number (1500) and say that's your gain for using a crit stat.

Don't underestimate haste. Look at the whole picture.

I can't remember how it all works or the math involved, but a lot of high end raiders pick crit over haste any day. Self buffed, one piece of +20ish haste gear, and an agi ring keeps me procin' at 170+ haste thru most fights raiding and seen 230+ a few times with Illusionists/Inquisitor buffs...which is a waste. (I end up in the melee group most of the time with dirge buffs for higher chances of procing, thus the constant state of agi ring, cloak of valor proc....). Coercers and dirges are my buffers of choice and the only time I'd pick an Illusionist over a Coercer (Haste buffs over DPS buffs)  for buffage is if I'm either going to get Illusionary Arm or gonna spend a fight doing nothing but ranged auto attacking, like the golems in MMIS, 3rd named in FTH and a few in EH. (I've seen Memberous Spine Sheath get up to 900 dps auto attack on the parse with the right buffs). Haste should always go to Assasins and Rangers first, be it from gear or buffs, then dang near every other melee class next before a monk IMHO.

[BChizzle]

Xanthar@Unrest wrote:

BChizzle wrote:

Wrong when you throw in dps mods and a higher spread weapon you will crit for 1500 and crits become way more important.

My point is that if you crit for, as you say, 1500, twice every minute (2%), what's the real gain? The CA that hit critical may have hit for 700 or 800 without the crit. So, you can't take that raw number (1500) and say that's your gain for using a crit stat.

Don't underestimate haste. Look at the whole picture.

You are completely wrong.  Anyhow no sense arguing with you since one day you will come around and see the light.

[Xanthar]

I'm not arguing, just stating my opinions. But, if you feel my opinion is wrong, maybe you can explain exactly what I said that was wrong. You said I was wrong, but didn't say what was wrong. If I am wrong about how the critical percentage and hits work, by all means enlighten me.

I think the reason most raid Monks go with the crit cloak is because their haste is already near the top of the curve without a cloak. I would think if your haste is low it is more valuable than you think.

Also, I am not saying haste is always better than critical hit improvement. I said if your haste is toward the lower end of the scale you might consider raising it before you get too much critical improvement. I believe a balance of both is good.

[BChizzle]

Xanthar@Unrest wrote:

I'm not arguing, just stating my opinions. But, if you feel my opinion is wrong, maybe you can explain exactly what I said that was wrong. You said I was wrong, but didn't say what was wrong. If I am wrong about how the critical percentage and hits work, by all means enlighten me.

I think the reason most raid Monks go with the crit cloak is because their haste is already near the top of the curve without a cloak. I would think if your haste is low it is more valuable than you think.

Also, I am not saying haste is always better than critical hit improvement. I said if your haste is toward the lower end of the scale you might consider raising it before you get too much critical improvement. I believe a balance of both is good.

Let me see if I can explain this, maybe one of you guys who track stats on parses etc can explain it a little better. Speed is part of the curve and you are already getting bad returns with self buffs.  Crits increase at a static rate.  Also crits hit for CA's while your attack speed doesn't help your CA's in anyway.  Also the way crits work is you are hitting for way more then the average your weapon is hitting for so 2% crit doesn't mean you are hitting for 2% more dmg it means you popping a hard hit out of your weapon range on 2% of hits.  The amount the crit hits for also increase with dps buffs and dmg spread.  For us it is much easier to have our dps buffs grow because we aren't in the diminishing part of that return most of the time. So double attack, dps buffs, crits and good dmg spread = best way for a monk to parse high.  Haste really doesn't help much since it might not add much but an extra few autoattacks a min.