please give sorcerors 15% hate transfer

miliskel · 07-22-2007, 05:58 AM

if u r lowering the tanks hate then lower the squishies hate too please , scouts wont relearn there class they will buy deaggro poisons and leave our corpses on the floor unless we get some neat hate tools.

miliskel · 07-22-2007, 06:11 AM

oh yeh i forgot this hehe , if 15% isnt enough there is space for even better hate trans

Deggials · 07-22-2007, 11:48 AM

miliskel wrote:

if u r lowering the tanks hate then lower the squishies hate too please , scouts wont relearn there class they will buy deaggro poisons and leave our corpses on the floor unless we get some neat hate tools.

How about instead of "Give sorcs 15% hate transfer ability" we have sages make a consumable spell that lowers hate for mages which will do 2 things,

1.Give sages a consumable

2. Give Mages something to buy like said scouts(poisons, etc)

Nathdorl · 07-22-2007, 12:05 PM

theres an even better solution for this: just revert this crap and keep it the way it is right now on live, period!

miliskel · 07-22-2007, 02:20 PM

what on earth would the consumable be that we wouldnt have to cast lol?

JohnDoe058 · 07-22-2007, 04:24 PM

Nathdorl wrote:

theres an even better solution for this: just revert this crap and keep it the way it is right now on live, period!

Yeah, that's a great idea. Keep scouts in easy mode, and keep sorcs inferior to them in every way. I LOOOVE that idea.

What, did that sound sarcastic? I REALLY didn't mean it to. Your idea is a bit of genius. You really should be like a scientist or something.

Tandy · 07-22-2007, 09:04 PM

The mechanic is in game for an 'expendable' spell scroll. Would be easy to implement something like a sage made 10 use scroll with a 1500 threat decrease castable every 60 seconds or something similar that isnt 'overpowered'. Would give sages something to make that is brokerable aside from spells and as long as they didnt cost a lot to make, mages could stock up just like poisons for scouts.

Draggoz · 07-22-2007, 09:25 PM

You brought this on your selves by some mage complaining about a scouts ability to deaggro when you get none. Think about it scouts sneak around and avoid notice. So don't ask for some hate transfer when you caused this mess that everyone has to deal with.

Gareorn · 07-22-2007, 10:56 PM

Draggoz wrote:

You brought this on your selves by some mage complaining about a scouts ability to deaggro when you get none. Think about it scouts sneak around and avoid notice. So don't ask for some hate transfer when you caused this mess that everyone has to deal with.

Besides, who would they transfer it too? Silly Wizzy, hate transfer is for those who know what to do with it.

miliskel · 07-23-2007, 04:42 AM

Draggoz wrote:

You brought this on your selves by some mage complaining about a scouts ability to deaggro when you get none. Think about it scouts sneak around and avoid notice. So don't ask for some hate transfer when you caused this mess that everyone has to deal with.

so 1 mage means hell for every other mage?.........

theriatis · 07-23-2007, 04:56 AM

Hi,

how about keeping stuff as it is AND giving Sorcs a " 15% Hate Decrease" permanent Spell / Skill ?

Until now i have to rely on my Deaggro Items (I have a lot) and a whole bunch of other classes (Troub, Illu, Dirge, Coercer, Paladin, Assassin etc. be it in my group or in the MTs group) to not steal aggro.

And yes, one Sorc complained, that one Sorcs opinion is NOT my opinion, so stop freaking generalizing please. Thanks.

Regards, theriatis

Lvl 70 Wizard.

Ruut Li · 07-23-2007, 05:48 AM

Talissa@Unrest wrote:

Would give sages something to make that is brokerable aside from spells and as long as they didnt cost a lot to make, mages could stock up just like poisons for scouts.

No not just yet thx. When we are on par with scouts with our transfers we can start paying for extra deaggro just like you. As for now we have a passive pet that gives 4% and a transfer that gives 4% @ m1...so no...mages should not pay for any deaggro just yet. Its silly enough that we have to spend tons of aa points to get some decent protection through deaggro.

dieschatten · 07-23-2007, 05:50 AM

We have a spell who tranfer 4%!!!!!!!!!! yeah 4 % ^^ Hate to an Tank. Make 15 or more in this spell like a swash or assa spell.

TuinalOfTheNexus · 07-23-2007, 05:58 AM

theriatis wrote:

Hi,
how about keeping stuff as it is AND giving Sorcs a " 15% Hate Decrease" permanent Spell / Skill ?
Until now i have to rely on my Deaggro Items (I have a lot) and a whole bunch of other classes (Troub, Illu, Dirge, Coercer, Paladin, Assassin etc. be it in my group or in the MTs group) to not steal aggro.
And yes, one Sorc complained, that one Sorcs opinion is NOT my opinion, so stop freaking generalizing please. Thanks.
Regards, theriatis
Lvl 70 Wizard.

The Kineticist AA line gives a 16% passive deaggro.

The problem is Sorcerers are unwilling to take this line because the dps discrepancy with scouts is such that on a single target, they feel they need a full damage spec to compete.

I think personally a better route to take would to have been to change the swash and assassin transfers so they still give the tank the same amount of hate, but don't take it away from the scout. So an Assassin would still be giving the tank 26% of his hate, but generating 26% more too than with the current arrangement. While they're trying to make aggro a concern for scouts with this patch, by nerfing transfers they're hitting Sorcerers harder.

GerOcrana · 07-23-2007, 07:55 AM

if the Wizards get a 15% aggro transfer, theres no Raid outside to invite an Assassin. Good DPS, Manaburn, Mana Transfer and a Hate Trans ? Range high damage spikes with Transfer, hey thats a bad joke. Which Raid needs an Assassin ? i say you the truth answer (remember Wrath of Fury T5 Times) : no one needs any Transfer Class SMILEY

the Wizzy can throw much dps than any Melee, you problem is the aggromanagment and you have to work with it. Our Prob is to survive at the raidmonster ^^ Transfer 4 Wizzy ? Overpowered ! SMILEY

my one Penny Greetz Ocrana

Siclone · 07-23-2007, 10:29 AM

this is already a caster's game

Casters can stand back out of danger and smash buttons and lead parses. with little effort.

Scouts have to run in, get in postion, with a moving mob, in full AE damage range. The only advantage scouts have is hate. Which they are trying to reduce.

Gareorn · 07-23-2007, 10:45 AM

If you are an Assassin or a Swashie, and you don't put your hate transfer on a Sorceror at least once after reading this thread. You have no sense of humor. SMILEY

theriatis · 07-23-2007, 10:59 AM

@geocrana / siclone

Go, play a Sorc !!

You have no Idea what you are talking about.

I didn't say that i want the scouts hate transfer nerfed... I RELY COMPLETELY on them for my deaggro.

There's NO FREAKING WAY to control my aggro without an assassin & Dirge / Coercer in MT Group and Illusionist / Trouba in the Castergroup... even now, without the changes i rely on them. Giving a Sorc a 15% Hategain Decrease would mean, i could stick to damagegear and stop pressing my "wonderful" deaggro spells everytime when they're up. But that DOES NOT MEAN i don't need Scouts anymore !!! With the changes i have to take the kineticist line, with deaggro written all over.... costs me 12% Mana AND a lot DPS. Without at least a trouba i'm faster oom (with FT at cap) and dead (because of aggro). Nerf the Scouts means nerf the Casters. It's as simple as that.

The Standard Wizard needs at least Trouba / Illu for Deaggro & Mana & TC, and an Assassin & Dirge / Coercer in MT for Hate, so that he can play his potential... and not even to the fullest, because Manaburn (which got nerfed) / Fusion means INSTANT DEATH.

And, yes, Casters have to (see the difference between "have to" and "can" ?) stand back.... and do you know why ? Otherwise we are dead, faster as you can say "Paper-Armor" and "Less HP".

We have since day one problems with mana (spells cost to much), aggro and our casting timers... without 4 additional classes which we RELY ON, we can do nearly nothing. Do you need 4 additional classes catered around you to play your charakter on a raid effectively ?

Regards, theriatis,

Lvl 70 wizard.

Ruut Li · 07-23-2007, 11:24 AM

Siclone wrote:

this is already a caster's game
Casters can stand back out of danger and smash buttons and lead parses. with little effort.
Scouts have to run in, get in postion, with a moving mob, in full AE damage range. The only advantage scouts have is hate. Which they are trying to reduce.

If walking the thin line between stealing aggro and doing good dps is an activity that requires, as you put it, little effort then I guess you dont mind the changes to scouts..because its so easy walk that line. thx for your support! SMILEY

Oh and please show me effortless & mindless button mashing top parsing lvl 70 raiding warlock. You cannot, because its one of the most complicated dps classes out there, if you want to be high on the parse list and DONT raid with slackers.

My beef has never even been with preds. Im just amazed that there are utility and semi-utility classes with no aggro problems at all doing sorc/pred kinda dps....I think soe is going after the wrong classes with the nerf bat.

Zyphius · 07-23-2007, 08:17 PM

GerOcrana wrote:

if the Wizards get a 15% aggro transfer, theres no Raid outside to invite an Assassin. Good DPS, Manaburn, Mana Transfer and a Hate Trans ? Range high damage spikes with Transfer, hey thats a bad joke. Which Raid needs an Assassin ? i say you the truth answer (remember Wrath of Fury T5 Times) : no one needs any Transfer Class the Wizzy can throw much dps than any Melee, you problem is the aggromanagment and you have to work with it. Our Prob is to survive at the raidmonster ^^ Transfer 4 Wizzy ? Overpowered ! my one Penny Greetz Ocrana

Do you even have a brain? No, really. I'm serious. I am really curious...

Manaburn SUCKS already on LIVE. You actually think MB INCREASES DPS??? Yea, I can top the parse on a freaking 20 second fight, whoop-de-doo. Give me a REAL [Removed for Content] fight and MB does nothing but LOWER DPS. And now they are NERFING it (AGAIN) too!!!! OMG I [Removed for Content] HATE SOE!!!

Any necro, conjurer, swashy, ranger, or assassin that can't outdps a wizard (with or without manaburn) either truely sucks to all hell, or is AFK.

Obsidiann · 07-23-2007, 08:24 PM

It seems like SOE just needs to re-think aggro altogether... it's getting overly complicated with so many classes having transfers, deaggro spells etc. To me it feels like an unnecessary mechanic to begin with, especially when not all hate is measurable.

Froed20 · 07-24-2007, 10:36 AM

The hell with hate transfer.... I want teh plate armor!!!

IronHydra · 07-24-2007, 12:53 PM

In all honesty I like this change... With the new abilities given to monks... this will make them usful in raids now. So I doubt they will change it back... this will balance the classes more so, which is what the Dev's are trying to accompish.

Pelda · 07-24-2007, 01:40 PM

We shouldn't have to rely on hate transfers to successfully hold aggro. A tank should be able to hold their aggro with the skills they have instead of having to rely on 2 classes giving the MT hate on top of all the deaggros that everyone already has. They need to adjust the hate gain by fighters to offset the nerfing of the hate transfers. That in the end would help everyone including squishies.

liveja · 07-24-2007, 01:49 PM

Siclone wrote:

this is already a caster's game
Casters can stand back out of danger and smash buttons and lead parses. with little effort.
Scouts have to run in, get in postion, with a moving mob, in full AE damage range. The only advantage scouts have is hate. Which they are trying to reduce.

ROFL.

Please tell me you don't actually play a Scout, or a Mage.

zixtent · 07-24-2007, 10:42 PM

Froed2004 wrote:

The hell with hate transfer.... I want the plate armor!!!

Yeah!!! I take the plate armor too.

Kwoung · 07-25-2007, 08:24 PM

Siclone wrote:

this is already a caster's game
Casters can stand back out of danger and smash buttons and lead parses. with little effort.
Scouts have to run in, get in postion, with a moving mob, in full AE damage range. The only advantage scouts have is hate. Which they are trying to reduce.

Considering some of my best spells only have a 5' cast range (a bit more with AA's)... as a wizzy, I also need to run in and get position in full AE damage range of the mob... I am sorry, what was your point again? What advantage do I have now that I am standing next to the mob wearing my paper armour?

Hellswrath · 07-26-2007, 04:24 PM

For those saying this balances the classes: When sorcs get built in deaggro abilities that accounts for 16+% hate without having to spend AA points to get them, then we will be balanced with scouts. Until then, we are unbalanced, and will have an even harder job due to the nerfing of the hate transfers.

Zombo611 · 08-09-2007, 04:14 PM

Maybe I am missing something but the last time I checked our (Warlock not sure about Wizzies) Aggro transfer is 1st only transfers to Fighters , which is fine, 2nd is a proc (2 times a min), which is ok, 3rd Only procs if the Fighter is taking Melee damage, 4th Does not stack with other simular spells!

Deaggro last for 15 sec which gives us time to cast 2 good nukes and if you are not watching your maintained spells close then you may miss the the whole thing.

so lets recap

you have to watch your maintained so you can fight for your turn with the deaggro wait for it to proc make sure you do not miss the new maintained spell from the proc blast for 2 nukes for small 4% bleed of aggro

I would say take all of my deaggro (all 4 of them) and replace with

1. a sort of rescue decrease hate by 1 position insta cast 2 min recast

2. a 3-4% bleed from total aggro to a fighter proced from our hostel spells maybe a 1.2 times per min

3. make what we have proc from our spells and make it stackable or lose the fighter part

simpwrx02 · 08-13-2007, 12:57 PM

Zombo611 wrote:

Maybe I am missing something but the last time I checked our (Warlock not sure about Wizzies) Aggro transfer is 1st only transfers to Fighters , which is fine, 2nd is a proc (2 times a min), which is ok, 3rd Only procs if the Fighter is taking Melee damage, 4th Does not stack with other simular spells!
Deaggro last for 15 sec which gives us time to cast 2 good nukes and if you are not watching your maintained spells close then you may miss the the whole thing.
so lets recap
you have to watch your maintained so you can fight for your turn with the deaggro wait for it to proc make sure you do not miss the new maintained spell from the proc blast for 2 nukes for small 4% bleed of aggro
I would say take all of my deaggro (all 4 of them) and replace with
1. a sort of rescue decrease hate by 1 position insta cast 2 min recast
2. a 3-4% bleed from total aggro to a fighter proced from our hostel spells maybe a 1.2 times per min
3. make what we have proc from our spells and make it stackable or lose the fighter part

The wizzy/warlock aggro trasfer is 4% at master one to any fighter in group/raid, this spell also has a proc chance to give 91 power 10% of the time when target gets melee damage and you are correct only one can be on a fighter.

Sorcs do need loving for deaggro abilities, but that is part of the fun in playing the class is walking that line, it becomes even more interesting in EH when the trees strip buffs no more deaggro on you or hate gain on MT. My favorite is when the [Removed for Content] necros lifeburn right after the buff removal lag get aggro and die.

The decrease threat by one position is awesome, brigs use to have it, but SoE took it away from them so I dont see them giving it to any other class, mages can get it as a proc on the claymore reward.

If you are good aligned you can get a real nice deaggro cloak by following Quillenos(sp) has a proc that reduces hate gain by a good amount.

Sorcs do not top the parse unless they have a group setup around them aka troub/illy/warlock/templar even then it will be a fight for top. Our MT assassin normally tops the parse or a necro that lifeburns, when our ranger raids he is up there a lot as well. I am noramlly top 5 on the parse but that is it, I almost never get an illy SMILEY .

07-22-2007, 11:48 AM	#3
Deggials Loremaster Join Date: Feb 2007 Posts: 138	miliskel wrote: if u r lowering the tanks hate then lower the squishies hate too please , scouts wont relearn there class they will buy deaggro poisons and leave our corpses on the floor unless we get some neat hate tools. How about instead of "Give sorcs 15% hate transfer ability" we have sages make a consumable spell that lowers hate for mages which will do 2 things, 1.Give sages a consumable 2. Give Mages something to buy like said scouts(poisons, etc)

07-22-2007, 04:24 PM	#6
JohnDoe058 Loremaster Join Date: Dec 2004 Posts: 237	Nathdorl wrote: theres an even better solution for this: just revert this crap and keep it the way it is right now on live, period! Yeah, that's a great idea. Keep scouts in easy mode, and keep sorcs inferior to them in every way. I LOOOVE that idea. What, did that sound sarcastic? I REALLY didn't mean it to. Your idea is a bit of genius. You really should be like a scientist or something.

07-22-2007, 09:04 PM	#7
Tandy Loremaster Join Date: Mar 2005 Posts: 284	The mechanic is in game for an 'expendable' spell scroll. Would be easy to implement something like a sage made 10 use scroll with a 1500 threat decrease castable every 60 seconds or something similar that isnt 'overpowered'. Would give sages something to make that is brokerable aside from spells and as long as they didnt cost a lot to make, mages could stock up just like poisons for scouts. __________________

07-22-2007, 10:56 PM	#9
Gareorn Loremaster Join Date: Nov 2004 Posts: 1,144	Draggoz wrote: You brought this on your selves by some mage complaining about a scouts ability to deaggro when you get none. Think about it scouts sneak around and avoid notice. So don't ask for some hate transfer when you caused this mess that everyone has to deal with. Besides, who would they transfer it too? Silly Wizzy, hate transfer is for those who know what to do with it. __________________ Leader of the vast right-wing conspiricy... Hiding from the world's smartest woman in a bunker under a Hooter's restaurant.

07-23-2007, 04:42 AM	#10
miliskel Lord Join Date: Feb 2007 Posts: 432	Draggoz wrote: You brought this on your selves by some mage complaining about a scouts ability to deaggro when you get none. Think about it scouts sneak around and avoid notice. So don't ask for some hate transfer when you caused this mess that everyone has to deal with. so 1 mage means hell for every other mage?.........

07-22-2007, 05:58 AM	#1
miliskel Lord Join Date: Feb 2007 Posts: 432	if u r lowering the tanks hate then lower the squishies hate too please , scouts wont relearn there class they will buy deaggro poisons and leave our corpses on the floor unless we get some neat hate tools.

07-22-2007, 06:11 AM	#2
miliskel Lord Join Date: Feb 2007 Posts: 432	oh yeh i forgot this hehe , if 15% isnt enough there is space for even better hate trans

07-22-2007, 12:05 PM	#4
Nathdorl Loremaster Join Date: Nov 2004 Posts: 366	theres an even better solution for this: just revert this crap and keep it the way it is right now on live, period!

07-22-2007, 02:20 PM	#5
miliskel Lord Join Date: Feb 2007 Posts: 432	what on earth would the consumable be that we wouldnt have to cast lol?

07-22-2007, 09:25 PM	#8
Draggoz Loremaster Join Date: May 2006 Posts: 70	You brought this on your selves by some mage complaining about a scouts ability to deaggro when you get none. Think about it scouts sneak around and avoid notice. So don't ask for some hate transfer when you caused this mess that everyone has to deal with.

07-23-2007, 04:56 AM	#11
theriatis Loremaster Join Date: Nov 2004 Posts: 927	Hi, how about keeping stuff as it is AND giving Sorcs a " 15% Hate Decrease" permanent Spell / Skill ? Until now i have to rely on my Deaggro Items (I have a lot) and a whole bunch of other classes (Troub, Illu, Dirge, Coercer, Paladin, Assassin etc. be it in my group or in the MTs group) to not steal aggro. And yes, one Sorc complained, that one Sorcs opinion is NOT my opinion, so stop freaking generalizing please. Thanks. Regards, theriatis Lvl 70 Wizard. __________________ If you're laughing at my (english) grammar, just try writing in my language; i need a good laugh now and then, too

07-23-2007, 05:48 AM	#12
Ruut Li Loremaster Join Date: Aug 2005 Posts: 561	Talissa@Unrest wrote: Would give sages something to make that is brokerable aside from spells and as long as they didnt cost a lot to make, mages could stock up just like poisons for scouts. No not just yet thx. When we are on par with scouts with our transfers we can start paying for extra deaggro just like you. As for now we have a passive pet that gives 4% and a transfer that gives 4% @ m1...so no...mages should not pay for any deaggro just yet. Its silly enough that we have to spend tons of aa points to get some decent protection through deaggro.

07-23-2007, 05:50 AM	#13
dieschatten Loremaster Join Date: Nov 2004 Posts: 190	We have a spell who tranfer 4%!!!!!!!!!! yeah 4 % ^^ Hate to an Tank. Make 15 or more in this spell like a swash or assa spell.

07-23-2007, 05:58 AM	#14
TuinalOfTheNexus Loremaster Join Date: Nov 2004 Posts: 589	theriatis wrote: Hi, how about keeping stuff as it is AND giving Sorcs a " 15% Hate Decrease" permanent Spell / Skill ? Until now i have to rely on my Deaggro Items (I have a lot) and a whole bunch of other classes (Troub, Illu, Dirge, Coercer, Paladin, Assassin etc. be it in my group or in the MTs group) to not steal aggro. And yes, one Sorc complained, that one Sorcs opinion is NOT my opinion, so stop freaking generalizing please. Thanks. Regards, theriatis Lvl 70 Wizard. The Kineticist AA line gives a 16% passive deaggro. The problem is Sorcerers are unwilling to take this line because the dps discrepancy with scouts is such that on a single target, they feel they need a full damage spec to compete. I think personally a better route to take would to have been to change the swash and assassin transfers so they still give the tank the same amount of hate, but don't take it away from the scout. So an Assassin would still be giving the tank 26% of his hate, but generating 26% more too than with the current arrangement. While they're trying to make aggro a concern for scouts with this patch, by nerfing transfers they're hitting Sorcerers harder.

07-23-2007, 07:55 AM	#15
GerOcrana Loremaster Join Date: Sep 2006 Posts: 28	if the Wizards get a 15% aggro transfer, theres no Raid outside to invite an Assassin. Good DPS, Manaburn, Mana Transfer and a Hate Trans ? Range high damage spikes with Transfer, hey thats a bad joke. Which Raid needs an Assassin ? i say you the truth answer (remember Wrath of Fury T5 Times) : no one needs any Transfer Class the Wizzy can throw much dps than any Melee, you problem is the aggromanagment and you have to work with it. Our Prob is to survive at the raidmonster ^^ Transfer 4 Wizzy ? Overpowered ! my one Penny Greetz Ocrana

07-23-2007, 10:29 AM	#16
Siclone Loremaster Join Date: Jun 2006 Posts: 717	this is already a caster's game Casters can stand back out of danger and smash buttons and lead parses. with little effort. Scouts have to run in, get in postion, with a moving mob, in full AE damage range. The only advantage scouts have is hate. Which they are trying to reduce.

07-23-2007, 10:45 AM	#17
Gareorn Loremaster Join Date: Nov 2004 Posts: 1,144	If you are an Assassin or a Swashie, and you don't put your hate transfer on a Sorceror at least once after reading this thread. You have no sense of humor. __________________ Leader of the vast right-wing conspiricy... Hiding from the world's smartest woman in a bunker under a Hooter's restaurant.

07-23-2007, 10:59 AM	#18
theriatis Loremaster Join Date: Nov 2004 Posts: 927	@geocrana / siclone Go, play a Sorc !! You have no Idea what you are talking about. I didn't say that i want the scouts hate transfer nerfed... I RELY COMPLETELY on them for my deaggro. There's NO FREAKING WAY to control my aggro without an assassin & Dirge / Coercer in MT Group and Illusionist / Trouba in the Castergroup... even now, without the changes i rely on them. Giving a Sorc a 15% Hategain Decrease would mean, i could stick to damagegear and stop pressing my "wonderful" deaggro spells everytime when they're up. But that DOES NOT MEAN i don't need Scouts anymore !!! With the changes i have to take the kineticist line, with deaggro written all over.... costs me 12% Mana AND a lot DPS. Without at least a trouba i'm faster oom (with FT at cap) and dead (because of aggro). Nerf the Scouts means nerf the Casters. It's as simple as that. The Standard Wizard needs at least Trouba / Illu for Deaggro & Mana & TC, and an Assassin & Dirge / Coercer in MT for Hate, so that he can play his potential... and not even to the fullest, because Manaburn (which got nerfed) / Fusion means INSTANT DEATH. And, yes, Casters have to (see the difference between "have to" and "can" ?) stand back.... and do you know why ? Otherwise we are dead, faster as you can say "Paper-Armor" and "Less HP". We have since day one problems with mana (spells cost to much), aggro and our casting timers... without 4 additional classes which we RELY ON, we can do nearly nothing. Do you need 4 additional classes catered around you to play your charakter on a raid effectively ? Regards, theriatis, Lvl 70 wizard. __________________ If you're laughing at my (english) grammar, just try writing in my language; i need a good laugh now and then, too

07-23-2007, 11:24 AM	#19
Ruut Li Loremaster Join Date: Aug 2005 Posts: 561	Siclone wrote: this is already a caster's game Casters can stand back out of danger and smash buttons and lead parses. with little effort. Scouts have to run in, get in postion, with a moving mob, in full AE damage range. The only advantage scouts have is hate. Which they are trying to reduce. If walking the thin line between stealing aggro and doing good dps is an activity that requires, as you put it, little effort then I guess you dont mind the changes to scouts..because its so easy walk that line. thx for your support! Oh and please show me effortless & mindless button mashing top parsing lvl 70 raiding warlock. You cannot, because its one of the most complicated dps classes out there, if you want to be high on the parse list and DONT raid with slackers. My beef has never even been with preds. Im just amazed that there are utility and semi-utility classes with no aggro problems at all doing sorc/pred kinda dps....I think soe is going after the wrong classes with the nerf bat.

07-23-2007, 08:17 PM	#20
Zyphius Loremaster Join Date: Dec 2004 Posts: 544	GerOcrana wrote: if the Wizards get a 15% aggro transfer, theres no Raid outside to invite an Assassin. Good DPS, Manaburn, Mana Transfer and a Hate Trans ? Range high damage spikes with Transfer, hey thats a bad joke. Which Raid needs an Assassin ? i say you the truth answer (remember Wrath of Fury T5 Times) : no one needs any Transfer Class the Wizzy can throw much dps than any Melee, you problem is the aggromanagment and you have to work with it. Our Prob is to survive at the raidmonster ^^ Transfer 4 Wizzy ? Overpowered ! my one Penny Greetz Ocrana Do you even have a brain? No, really. I'm serious. I am really curious... Manaburn SUCKS already on LIVE. You actually think MB INCREASES DPS??? Yea, I can top the parse on a freaking 20 second fight, whoop-de-doo. Give me a REAL [Removed for Content] fight and MB does nothing but LOWER DPS. And now they are NERFING it (AGAIN) too!!!! OMG I [Removed for Content] HATE SOE!!! Any necro, conjurer, swashy, ranger, or assassin that can't outdps a wizard (with or without manaburn) either truely sucks to all hell, or is AFK. __________________ Exalted Zyphius Most'Dieus, Destroyer of Fairies, 80 Wizard/80 Sage of Unrest Arion Cessation, 26 Necro of Unrest Twilight Raiders

07-23-2007, 08:24 PM	#21
Obsidiann Loremaster Join Date: Feb 2007 Posts: 159	It seems like SOE just needs to re-think aggro altogether... it's getting overly complicated with so many classes having transfers, deaggro spells etc. To me it feels like an unnecessary mechanic to begin with, especially when not all hate is measurable.

07-24-2007, 10:36 AM	#22
Froed20 General Join Date: Jan 2005 Posts: 464	The hell with hate transfer.... I want teh plate armor!!!

07-24-2007, 12:53 PM	#23
IronHydra Loremaster Join Date: Nov 2004 Posts: 49	In all honesty I like this change... With the new abilities given to monks... this will make them usful in raids now. So I doubt they will change it back... this will balance the classes more so, which is what the Dev's are trying to accompish. __________________

07-24-2007, 01:40 PM	#24
Pelda General Join Date: Dec 2004 Posts: 165	We shouldn't have to rely on hate transfers to successfully hold aggro. A tank should be able to hold their aggro with the skills they have instead of having to rely on 2 classes giving the MT hate on top of all the deaggros that everyone already has. They need to adjust the hate gain by fighters to offset the nerfing of the hate transfers. That in the end would help everyone including squishies.

07-24-2007, 01:49 PM	#25
liveja General Join Date: Sep 2005 Location: Foster's Home For Imaginary Friends Posts: 4,793	Siclone wrote: this is already a caster's game Casters can stand back out of danger and smash buttons and lead parses. with little effort. Scouts have to run in, get in postion, with a moving mob, in full AE damage range. The only advantage scouts have is hate. Which they are trying to reduce. ROFL. Please tell me you don't actually play a Scout, or a Mage. __________________

07-24-2007, 10:42 PM	#26
zixtent Loremaster Join Date: Apr 2005 Location: Oklahoma Posts: 161	Froed2004 wrote: The hell with hate transfer.... I want the plate armor!!! Yeah!!! I take the plate armor too. __________________

07-25-2007, 08:24 PM	#27
Kwoung Tester Join Date: Nov 2004 Posts: 710	Siclone wrote: this is already a caster's game Casters can stand back out of danger and smash buttons and lead parses. with little effort. Scouts have to run in, get in postion, with a moving mob, in full AE damage range. The only advantage scouts have is hate. Which they are trying to reduce. Considering some of my best spells only have a 5' cast range (a bit more with AA's)... as a wizzy, I also need to run in and get position in full AE damage range of the mob... I am sorry, what was your point again? What advantage do I have now that I am standing next to the mob wearing my paper armour? __________________ Everquest II Test Server Community

07-26-2007, 04:24 PM	#28
Hellswrath Loremaster Join Date: Dec 2004 Posts: 1,036	For those saying this balances the classes: When sorcs get built in deaggro abilities that accounts for 16+% hate without having to spend AA points to get them, then we will be balanced with scouts. Until then, we are unbalanced, and will have an even harder job due to the nerfing of the hate transfers. __________________

08-09-2007, 04:14 PM	#29
Zombo611 Loremaster Join Date: Dec 2004 Posts: 51	Maybe I am missing something but the last time I checked our (Warlock not sure about Wizzies) Aggro transfer is 1st only transfers to Fighters , which is fine, 2nd is a proc (2 times a min), which is ok, 3rd Only procs if the Fighter is taking Melee damage, 4th Does not stack with other simular spells! Deaggro last for 15 sec which gives us time to cast 2 good nukes and if you are not watching your maintained spells close then you may miss the the whole thing. so lets recap you have to watch your maintained so you can fight for your turn with the deaggro wait for it to proc make sure you do not miss the new maintained spell from the proc blast for 2 nukes for small 4% bleed of aggro I would say take all of my deaggro (all 4 of them) and replace with 1. a sort of rescue decrease hate by 1 position insta cast 2 min recast 2. a 3-4% bleed from total aggro to a fighter proced from our hostel spells maybe a 1.2 times per min 3. make what we have proc from our spells and make it stackable or lose the fighter part __________________ Warlocks New ability kind of like a deaggro / Evac it costs 10% on your gear and some xp but it drops aggro by 100% and teleports you to a safe place in the zone.

08-13-2007, 12:57 PM	#30
simpwrx02 Loremaster Join Date: Apr 2006 Posts: 919	Zombo611 wrote: Maybe I am missing something but the last time I checked our (Warlock not sure about Wizzies) Aggro transfer is 1st only transfers to Fighters , which is fine, 2nd is a proc (2 times a min), which is ok, 3rd Only procs if the Fighter is taking Melee damage, 4th Does not stack with other simular spells! Deaggro last for 15 sec which gives us time to cast 2 good nukes and if you are not watching your maintained spells close then you may miss the the whole thing. so lets recap you have to watch your maintained so you can fight for your turn with the deaggro wait for it to proc make sure you do not miss the new maintained spell from the proc blast for 2 nukes for small 4% bleed of aggro I would say take all of my deaggro (all 4 of them) and replace with 1. a sort of rescue decrease hate by 1 position insta cast 2 min recast 2. a 3-4% bleed from total aggro to a fighter proced from our hostel spells maybe a 1.2 times per min 3. make what we have proc from our spells and make it stackable or lose the fighter part The wizzy/warlock aggro trasfer is 4% at master one to any fighter in group/raid, this spell also has a proc chance to give 91 power 10% of the time when target gets melee damage and you are correct only one can be on a fighter. Sorcs do need loving for deaggro abilities, but that is part of the fun in playing the class is walking that line, it becomes even more interesting in EH when the trees strip buffs no more deaggro on you or hate gain on MT. My favorite is when the [Removed for Content] necros lifeburn right after the buff removal lag get aggro and die. The decrease threat by one position is awesome, brigs use to have it, but SoE took it away from them so I dont see them giving it to any other class, mages can get it as a proc on the claymore reward. If you are good aligned you can get a real nice deaggro cloak by following Quillenos(sp) has a proc that reduces hate gain by a good amount. Sorcs do not top the parse unless they have a group setup around them aka troub/illy/warlock/templar even then it will be a fight for top. Our MT assassin normally tops the parse or a necro that lifeburns, when our ranger raids he is up there a lot as well. I am noramlly top 5 on the parse but that is it, I almost never get an illy .