Can we get a FFA server already? - Page 4

Radigazt · 07-12-2007, 09:24 AM

Yosemite@Nagafen wrote:

Anyone can group with anyone anywhere and attack anyone. NO. Keep the level restrictions and we're fine. Or, even better, auto-mentor everyone to the same level per zone.
Only groupmates and perhaps guildmates are not attackable. YES
You can talk to everyone. YES
Titles based on KvD or total kill count (thousands to hundred of thousands per rank). YES. Total kills please, let's eliminate the running, suiciding, insta-evac'ing, and raid-PvP.
On death you drop all your money and treasured items. AMBIVALENT. Whatever setting encourages new players to play more often ... I want an FFA server with a huge population, not just a gank-fest of veterans killing fresh meat and then getting bored and leaving the server unpopulated.
No Perma immunity anywhere (not even in cities), chaos everywhere, let the players run the server. YES, except keep the cities immune. Otherwise crafting areas and banks would become the center of the PvP universe, and that's no fun IMHO.
No level restrictions. NO. Keep the level restrictions, orange cons are waaaaaaaay more powerful.
No PVP gear, enforce raiding! NO. Get rid of raiding ... WtheF! Already 100% of the servers are raid servers, give us PvP'ers a chance, make raiding pointless on an FFA PvP server.
PVP everywhere and anywhere, no more faction based pvp. YES.
Who's with me?

Fix mentoring, then auto-mentor everyone down to the PvP level of the zone. If they chose to mentor lower than that to experience PvE content, fine, but keep it so that we can always find PvP and have some semblance of balance ... not just some llama group of orange-cons running from everything except solos or a partial-group of green cons. Let's actually encourage PvP'ing everywhere and at all times ... not just when you're 95% certain that you're going to win. I don't care who gets what title of how many kills people get, just implement a system that ENCOURAGES PVP instead of encouraging running and raiding. After all, it would be a PvP server ... there are 20 or more raiding servers already ... let's have one for the people who just want to PvP.

Amphibia · 07-12-2007, 10:11 AM

Yonkec wrote:

Do this now please. I have too many friends switching up factions that its impossible to continue interacting with them in the current ruleset. FFA is where its at. Lots of good ideas being tossed around in this thread to. Not sure I like the forced pvp mode if your attacked, perhaps it only locks you in pvp if you are within a certain level range of each other and they arent in an X4 raid while your solo etc. No Immunities/ PVP Everywhere - great! You should only be safe in your own house. Talk to everyone - An absolute must, this is a social game not a single player chess game, we need some basic forms of interaction with the players we duel besides turning to 3rd party voicecoms. Titles based on KvD - sounds great fame is a little silly with its mechanics imo No pvp gear - Ehh I personally enjoy raiding more than farming gear entirely by pvp but if others like it why not, just dont make it the end all gear, just competitive with raid drops. Shoot, remove the speech barrier, immunities and lvl restrictions and im gtg~

Bleh. I don't wanna have to raid for gear.... did that for 6 months and now I'm totally burned out. I know of many others too who have absolutely zero interest in raiding, and came here mainly to PvP. Just think about it for a moment - if everyone have to raid to get gear they can actually compete with, when will people go out to PvP? Not very often, I'd wager. So the PvP rewards probably encourage PvP a lot more than some people might think. But I'm all for giving the same thing to exiles, maybe for the double amount of tokens since they have twice as many targets. Right now they get nothing, so most stay in the cave and rarely come out outside raid hours.... I don't blame'em for that at all. The other ideas you have sound interesting, though I can imagine some people would totally hate open channels. Imagine this: Andy tells Level_60-69: Bill u [I cannot control my vocabulary] [I cannot control my vocabulary], skydive more imo Bill tells Level_60-69: you were tagged heroic so [I cannot control my vocabulary] kktnxbye Andy tells Level_60-69: i was alone and u run like a japanese schoolgirl. but whatev Andy tells Level_60-69: i dont need help btw, i can beat [I cannot control my vocabulary] liek u solo any day, so suck my [I cannot control my vocabulary] ... and I'm sure this is a weak example compared to what people would actually say if there was such a thing as open channels on PvP servers. SMILEY

TniEradani · 07-12-2007, 10:54 PM

i'm sure this color scheme is going to look just dreadful /sorry

Yosemite@Nagafen wrote:

Anyone can group with anyone anywhere and attack anyone. YES with exceptions noted following
Only groupmates and perhaps guildmates are not attackable. YES and yes on the perhaps esp
You can talk to everyone. YES it really can't be that much worse than 10-19 anyways.
Titles based on KvD or total kill count (thousands to hundred of thousands per rank). Something other than the apparently RNG way titles work now
On death you drop all your money and treasured items. I don't like the sound of this very much, bad enough newbs learn by losing most of their money, they don't need to lose it all.
No Perma immunity anywhere (not even in cities), chaos everywhere, let the players run the server. No. Cities need to be safe. Well, sort of safe. I don't know, but I don't like the thought of running from the bank to the broker and back to the bank and getting ganked. Maybe some very small business area in evey city.
No Perma immunity: YES. BUT I really want some kind of very very quick camping so that I can deal with life sometimes and LD is just not an option considering the length of time it takes to restart the game. I know that some people will abuse it, but some people will abuse anything.
No level restrictions. This won't work. People complain now about lvl 14 noob twinks ganking newbs, you think they'll enjoy getting ganked by lvl 70 noob twinks any more? However, lvl restrictions don't work right now. Make them based on tier instead of zone.
No PVP gear, enforce raiding! NO NO NO I don't want to raid, I want to PVP
PVP everywhere and anywhere, no more faction based pvp. YES YES YES YES
Who's with me?

Points made by others:

Also, I'd like to see pvp death means you respawn in the city! Oh. This would really discourage PvP. I mean, you get killed in CL. Respawn in Qeynos. "uhhhh. I'm not running all the way back there guys. Think I'll just stay here."
I'd also like to see no potions or totems I'll agree with this. Makes certain classes more valuable and promotes /invite.
No recent list, except for tokens Have to think about this more.
No faction, all PvP gear requires tokens of the correct tier I don't really get the difference here
Exiles get no access to PvP gear because ... NO. No factions means no exiles, just a different city.
auto-mentor everyone down to the PvP level of the zone. This just sounds soo good, but I just can't see how it would work. (see comments in ... some other thread)

Other points:

Get rid of the griffons. Move the NQ and WFP guards to right in front of the gate or just get rid of the ones outside and double the ones inside. I really hate those gate wars with everyone cowering back there. Get out here and fight. OR. Come out and help fight. Get rid of all the guards out in the wild.
Let us kill those stupid npcs wandering around spamming. FFA on NPCs.

Yonkec · 07-13-2007, 02:28 AM

Amphibia wrote:

Yonkec wrote:
Do this now please. I have too many friends switching up factions that its impossible to continue interacting with them in the current ruleset. FFA is where its at. Lots of good ideas being tossed around in this thread to. Not sure I like the forced pvp mode if your attacked, perhaps it only locks you in pvp if you are within a certain level range of each other and they arent in an X4 raid while your solo etc. No Immunities/ PVP Everywhere - great! You should only be safe in your own house. Talk to everyone - An absolute must, this is a social game not a single player chess game, we need some basic forms of interaction with the players we duel besides turning to 3rd party voicecoms. Titles based on KvD - sounds great fame is a little silly with its mechanics imo No pvp gear - Ehh I personally enjoy raiding more than farming gear entirely by pvp but if others like it why not, just dont make it the end all gear, just competitive with raid drops. Shoot, remove the speech barrier, immunities and lvl restrictions and im gtg~
Bleh. I don't wanna have to raid for gear.... did that for 6 months and now I'm totally burned out. I know of many others too who have absolutely zero interest in raiding, and came here mainly to PvP. Just think about it for a moment - if everyone have to raid to get gear they can actually compete with, when will people go out to PvP? Not very often, I'd wager. So the PvP rewards probably encourage PvP a lot more than some people might think. But I'm all for giving the same thing to exiles, maybe for the double amount of tokens since they have twice as many targets. Right now they get nothing, so most stay in the cave and rarely come out outside raid hours.... I don't blame'em for that at all. The other ideas you have sound interesting, though I can imagine some people would totally hate open channels. Imagine this: Andy tells Level_60-69: Bill u [I cannot control my vocabulary] [I cannot control my vocabulary], skydive more imo Bill tells Level_60-69: you were tagged heroic so [I cannot control my vocabulary] kktnxbye Andy tells Level_60-69: i was alone and u run like a japanese schoolgirl. but whatev Andy tells Level_60-69: i dont need help btw, i can beat [I cannot control my vocabulary] liek u solo any day, so suck my [I cannot control my vocabulary] ... and I'm sure this is a weak example compared to what people would actually say if there was such a thing as open channels on PvP servers.

Yeah thats a good point on the raiding, the only issue now is what to do with exiles, are they going to be the "raiding" faction or will there even be exiles if we do a FFA server. I definitely can see how people will abuse the chat system if we allow cross faction talking, why not keep the chat channels separated and perhaps even ooc and shout, etc. Just allow "mutually listed friends" to talk in tells and perhaps in say.

Spider · 07-13-2007, 04:05 PM

Yonkec wrote:

Amphibia wrote:
Yonkec wrote:
Do this now please. I have too many friends switching up factions that its impossible to continue interacting with them in the current ruleset. FFA is where its at. Lots of good ideas being tossed around in this thread to. Not sure I like the forced pvp mode if your attacked, perhaps it only locks you in pvp if you are within a certain level range of each other and they arent in an X4 raid while your solo etc. No Immunities/ PVP Everywhere - great! You should only be safe in your own house. Talk to everyone - An absolute must, this is a social game not a single player chess game, we need some basic forms of interaction with the players we duel besides turning to 3rd party voicecoms. Titles based on KvD - sounds great fame is a little silly with its mechanics imo No pvp gear - Ehh I personally enjoy raiding more than farming gear entirely by pvp but if others like it why not, just dont make it the end all gear, just competitive with raid drops. Shoot, remove the speech barrier, immunities and lvl restrictions and im gtg~
Bleh. I don't wanna have to raid for gear.... did that for 6 months and now I'm totally burned out. I know of many others too who have absolutely zero interest in raiding, and came here mainly to PvP. Just think about it for a moment - if everyone have to raid to get gear they can actually compete with, when will people go out to PvP? Not very often, I'd wager. So the PvP rewards probably encourage PvP a lot more than some people might think. But I'm all for giving the same thing to exiles, maybe for the double amount of tokens since they have twice as many targets. Right now they get nothing, so most stay in the cave and rarely come out outside raid hours.... I don't blame'em for that at all. The other ideas you have sound interesting, though I can imagine some people would totally hate open channels. Imagine this: Andy tells Level_60-69: Bill u [I cannot control my vocabulary] [I cannot control my vocabulary], skydive more imo Bill tells Level_60-69: you were tagged heroic so [I cannot control my vocabulary] kktnxbye Andy tells Level_60-69: i was alone and u run like a japanese schoolgirl. but whatev Andy tells Level_60-69: i dont need help btw, i can beat [I cannot control my vocabulary] liek u solo any day, so suck my [I cannot control my vocabulary] ... and I'm sure this is a weak example compared to what people would actually say if there was such a thing as open channels on PvP servers.
Yeah thats a good point on the raiding, the only issue now is what to do with exiles, are they going to be the "raiding" faction or will there even be exiles if we do a FFA server. I definitely can see how people will abuse the chat system if we allow cross faction talking, why not keep the chat channels separated and perhaps even ooc and shout, etc. Just allow "mutually listed friends" to talk in tells and perhaps in say.

its obvious none of you ever played swg

and never delt with the endless childish hate tells every time someone died in pvp

EQGu · 07-13-2007, 04:27 PM

Im all for FFA!!!!!!

but the immunity stuff has got to go, and YES it does discourage pvp. Basically here is what immunity does to the pvp server, some sure they go grab a drink or w/e in immunity but MOST people do the following.

1. Gank someone with all their timers evac and wait for them to come back up.

2. Evac and wait for the big mean pvpers to leave(no zone controle)

3. Sit in immunity til a contested is pulled and zerg them then evac back to immunity(not real contested pvp)

4. gives people the chance to get away from pvp at any time they wish.

so yes some people may use it for a quick afk but most just hug immunity til their timers are up or they see the solo person go gank them then their group evacs and waits for the next.

dru · 07-13-2007, 08:52 PM

Yosemite@Nagafen wrote:

Anyone can group with anyone anywhere and attack anyone.
Only groupmates and perhaps guildmates are not attackable.
You can talk to everyone.
Titles based on KvD or total kill count (thousands to hundred of thousands per rank).
On death you drop all your money and treasured items.
No Perma immunity anywhere (not even in cities), chaos everywhere, let the players run the server.
No level restrictions.
No PVP gear, enforce raiding!
PVP everywhere and anywhere, no more faction based pvp.
Who's with me?

I agree with everything except for no PVP Gear. I need to be able to get good gear from PVP. I hate raids.

Ba · 07-13-2007, 09:32 PM

totally with the OP here and I know many more who would jump back into EQ2 if this came to fruition. No-Drop gear killed RZ. /signed

Spider · 07-13-2007, 11:37 PM

Baru@Venekor wrote:

totally with the OP here and I know many more who would jump back into EQ2 if this came to fruition. No-Drop gear killed RZ. /signed

no , no one but the leet kiddies would play a server where u risked loosing your own gear if u died

Ba · 07-14-2007, 03:27 PM

seeing as the "leet kiddies" once populated an entire server, that would be enough wouldn't you think? Not to mention the so called "anti" guilds would no doubt form also. RZ pop didn't start declining until the release of LDoN. can't go through life bein' scared.

Spider · 07-14-2007, 06:07 PM

Baru@Venekor wrote:

seeing as the "leet kiddies" once populated an entire server, that would be enough wouldn't you think? Not to mention the so called "anti" guilds would no doubt form also. RZ pop didn't start declining until the release of LDoN. can't go through life bein' scared.

its not about being scared

no one wants to play a server where they start a new toon only to get jumped by people 60 levels higher and loose all there gear

thats simply we todd edd

Captain Apple Darkberry · 07-14-2007, 07:07 PM

Spider wrote:

Baru@Venekor wrote:
seeing as the "leet kiddies" once populated an entire server, that would be enough wouldn't you think? Not to mention the so called "anti" guilds would no doubt form also. RZ pop didn't start declining until the release of LDoN. can't go through life bein' scared.
its not about being scared
no one wants to play a server where they start a new toon only to get jumped by people 60 levels higher and loose all there gear
thats simply we todd edd

Why do you keep arguing against something that would be voluntary...? At character creation you would see PvE, PvP Faction, PvP FFA... ...the road you choose is yours. you seem to litter this thread with statements that keep implying folks shouldn't get to choose FFA or that it should be a watered down form of FFA. Well there is already a watered down version of PvP, so that is not what is needed... ...nor wanted. I'm a carebear and crappy PvP'er, but even I hate the ease and lack of any sense of danger with the current PvP system. Would the proposed rules foster a server with trash talking, ganking, ruthless gameplay, and more teen angst than could be fathomed? Yes, it would. But the server would be full, over full even, and you would find more than just, as you put it, leet kiddies. You would find all the people who WANT a tougher gaming experience, those who hate immunity, those who want to kill anyone who talks smack in Crafting_Channel, no matter the faction. So if you don't like the idea, fine, you've said as much. But quit telling the people who do want such an option that they shouldn't get it... The most mystifying thing about the whole concept is just this... Why hasn't it been done yet?

Spider · 07-14-2007, 07:31 PM

Apple@Venekor wrote:

Spider wrote:
Baru@Venekor wrote:
seeing as the "leet kiddies" once populated an entire server, that would be enough wouldn't you think? Not to mention the so called "anti" guilds would no doubt form also. RZ pop didn't start declining until the release of LDoN. can't go through life bein' scared.
its not about being scared
no one wants to play a server where they start a new toon only to get jumped by people 60 levels higher and loose all there gear
thats simply we todd edd
Why do you keep arguing against something that would be voluntary...? At character creation you would see PvE, PvP Faction, PvP FFA... ...the road you choose is yours. you seem to litter this thread with statements that keep implying folks shouldn't get to choose FFA or that it should be a watered down form of FFA. Well there is already a watered down version of PvP, so that is not what is needed... ...nor wanted. I'm a carebear and crappy PvP'er, but even I hate the ease and lack of any sense of danger with the current PvP system. Would the proposed rules foster a server with trash talking, ganking, ruthless gameplay, and more teen angst than could be fathomed? Yes, it would. But the server would be full, over full even, and you would find more than just, as you put it, leet kiddies. You would find all the people who WANT a tougher gaming experience, those who hate immunity, those who want to kill anyone who talks smack in Crafting_Channel, no matter the faction. So if you don't like the idea, fine, you've said as much. But quit telling the people who do want such an option that they shouldn't get it... The most mystifying thing about the whole concept is just this... Why hasn't it been done yet?

it hasnt been done because ITS A BAD IDEA!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

it would FAIL

im sure it would be all the rage for the first month till a few power gamers grind faster hean everyone else and start pickin on thelowbies then it would go totaly down hill from there

you keep insisting it would be full but look at other games with full ffa style pvp like this there EMPTY and there EMPTY for a reason

KodiakAsh · 07-14-2007, 10:54 PM

Anyone can group with anyone anywhere and attack anyone.
Only groupmates and perhaps guildmates are not attackable.
You can talk to everyone.
Titles based on KvD or total kill count (thousands to hundred of thousands per rank).
On death you drop all your money and treasured items.
No Perma immunity anywhere (not even in cities), chaos everywhere, let the players run the server.
No level restrictions.
No PVP gear, enforce raiding!
PVP everywhere and anywhere, no more faction based pvp.

As a person who's played just about every FFA game out there to date (since Ultima Online) there are some definitely important things that make a FFA environment good and there are other ideas that will make a FFA environment horribly bad. First off, when designing any set of FFA rules in a game you have to consider the base game mechanics. At the moment in EQ2, the games are heavily based on having towns available to players. We'll take just one (albeit large) aspect to the game: Crafting. Crafting is huge in this game. Every skill post 50 you get usually ends up being crafted by someone else. Whether it's App 4 or Adept 3 most people are roaming with those crafted skills. You can get a decent set of gear with crafting as well. However, the amount of time it takes to craft is enormous. This isn't something you do in your spare time every so often, this is something you do for endless upon endless hours here. While there are (a few) options to get away from the public, the ultimate factor here is crafting is way too reliant on towns to be effective in a FFA environment where you're attackable in the city. You will (most likely) be unable to put the time in needed to get that high and realistically no one wants to sit there and play guard duty at a trade station for 8 hours while you grind out your sage. This is just one example of the problem with the game mechanics. Things like brokers, houses, trainers, and even the basic travel system in the game is almost entirely reliant on having towns be a safe place for people to be. This not by preference in any way as it is just how the game works. You can fight that all you want, but it won't really change. Second off, when designing a consequence system you have be prepared and able to back it up without turning people away. In previous games where loot was dropped en-masse (thinking UO and AC1) loot was also ridiculously easy to obtain (so much that 12 hours wasn't needed). You didn't spend 12 hours farming in either game to watch it all go down the tubes. And even if it did go down the tubes, the loot was so easily replaced it wasn't an issue. Lost your reagents/money/etc? It took mere minutes to replace. EQ2 again, does not function like either of these games. Many things in this game that takes those 6-12 hours took either minutes to an hour in other games with similar rules to what you suggest. Killing people is one thing, but killing people's time is another. I'm all for FFA PvP even dry looting, if the game mechanics can support it. Unfortunately EQ2's game mechanics really do not support it, only a mild version of it (a bit above what you loose now in PvP). So a bit harsher drop system would be in order, say a few treasured items each death and coin, but entire looting of everything treasured is just not going to happen. Another great example is your raiding example. I know many individuals who do not want to have to raid for gear. Maybe occasionally but really not a full time thing like in WOW. The PvP gear gives them a good alternative to that, especially on a server that's supposed to be all about PvP! That is, ultimately, what I see is the flaw in your system. While a decent set of rules, there are many game mechanics that grate against the rule set. The other issue is that the rules are geared for a more "hardcore" style of approach. As someone else mentioned, this will just pull the "hardcore" gamers off the PvP servers splitting the already decently low populations into the ground. You may get a few individuals who will try it out, but ultimately since they have to raid (it's enforced.) and the ruleset is so heavily geared against the even semi-casual/hardcore crowd that you will get less people than anticipated. Even still a lot of the FFA crowd are very finicky about their games, so if the game-mechanics are bad they will leave within a month or two after coming to EQ2 to check out the FFA. The idea is to create a system that caters to the most amount of individuals that would be willing to play the server. The more extreme you make a system (either towards faction PvP or FFA PvP) you will ultimately end up loosing potential players on that server.

Ba · 07-15-2007, 12:00 AM

Spider wrote:

Baru@Venekor wrote:
seeing as the "leet kiddies" once populated an entire server, that would be enough wouldn't you think? Not to mention the so called "anti" guilds would no doubt form also. RZ pop didn't start declining until the release of LDoN. can't go through life bein' scared.
its not about being scared
no one wants to play a server where they start a new toon only to get jumped by people 60 levels higher and loose all there gear
thats simply we todd edd

Just make it to where only players within a 4 level range either way can loot then. And not all the loot just single item loot, you choose which. Hell I'll even take a straight up pvp level limit. Just put in Item loot. Jesus just make RZ for EQ2 ok! And I'm not sure if you recall (wait I am sure you don't) but the all item loot, permadeath EQ1 server worked out quite well. So you don't know it won't work. Now go refill that half empty glass of yours.

Amphibia · 07-15-2007, 01:36 AM

Apple@Venekor wrote:

Spider wrote:
Baru@Venekor wrote:
seeing as the "leet kiddies" once populated an entire server, that would be enough wouldn't you think? Not to mention the so called "anti" guilds would no doubt form also. RZ pop didn't start declining until the release of LDoN. can't go through life bein' scared.
its not about being scared
no one wants to play a server where they start a new toon only to get jumped by people 60 levels higher and loose all there gear
thats simply we todd edd
Why do you keep arguing against something that would be voluntary...? At character creation you would see PvE, PvP Faction, PvP FFA... ...the road you choose is yours. you seem to litter this thread with statements that keep implying folks shouldn't get to choose FFA or that it should be a watered down form of FFA. Well there is already a watered down version of PvP, so that is not what is needed... ...nor wanted. I'm a carebear and crappy PvP'er, but even I hate the ease and lack of any sense of danger with the current PvP system. Would the proposed rules foster a server with trash talking, ganking, ruthless gameplay, and more teen angst than could be fathomed? Yes, it would. But the server would be full, over full even, and you would find more than just, as you put it, leet kiddies. You would find all the people who WANT a tougher gaming experience, those who hate immunity, those who want to kill anyone who talks smack in Crafting_Channel, no matter the faction. So if you don't like the idea, fine, you've said as much. But quit telling the people who do want such an option that they shouldn't get it... The most mystifying thing about the whole concept is just this... Why hasn't it been done yet?

I think it would be cool with one server with a little tougher PvP environment, but to open a new server now in this particular game? I honestly hope that won't happen. Reason? I can't imagine where all those players would come from... except some from Venekor, Vox and Nagafen. And perhaps a few from the blue servers, but most who really wants to PvP have already rolled on one of the mentioned PvP servers, I think. If no transfers to this new server, which is typical for new servers - there would be an issue with having to reroll AGAIN.... and I think most people are interested in doing that only so many times. Most of us already had to do reroll once, and frankly this is one of the reasons why PvP servers aren't more popular than they are. They came too late, and now many people on blue servers can't bring themselves to reroll again. Maybe this would be a better solution: Make one of the existing server a little tougher. Not necessarily full FFA, but perhaps no permanent immunity, no safety on docks and open PvP range in most zones. Or at least much wider level range limits in most zones. As for which server it should be, well honestly I think best choice then would be Nagafen - as most of the hardcore PvP'ers are already here. Venekor would keep today's ruleset. Vox is an exchange server, so I'm keeping that out of this. PS: Losing attuned gear in PvP? Not going to happen ever, I think. They made all gear attunable for other reasons than PvP looooong before the first PvP server was launched (if I remember correctly), and changing this back now would screw up tons of things... like the economy.

07-12-2007, 09:24 AM	#91
Radigazt Loremaster Join Date: Jan 2006 Posts: 491	Yosemite@Nagafen wrote: Anyone can group with anyone anywhere and attack anyone. NO. Keep the level restrictions and we're fine. Or, even better, auto-mentor everyone to the same level per zone. Only groupmates and perhaps guildmates are not attackable. YES You can talk to everyone. YES Titles based on KvD or total kill count (thousands to hundred of thousands per rank). YES. Total kills please, let's eliminate the running, suiciding, insta-evac'ing, and raid-PvP. On death you drop all your money and treasured items. AMBIVALENT. Whatever setting encourages new players to play more often ... I want an FFA server with a huge population, not just a gank-fest of veterans killing fresh meat and then getting bored and leaving the server unpopulated. No Perma immunity anywhere (not even in cities), chaos everywhere, let the players run the server. YES, except keep the cities immune. Otherwise crafting areas and banks would become the center of the PvP universe, and that's no fun IMHO. No level restrictions. NO. Keep the level restrictions, orange cons are waaaaaaaay more powerful. No PVP gear, enforce raiding! NO. Get rid of raiding ... WtheF! Already 100% of the servers are raid servers, give us PvP'ers a chance, make raiding pointless on an FFA PvP server. PVP everywhere and anywhere, no more faction based pvp. YES. Who's with me? Fix mentoring, then auto-mentor everyone down to the PvP level of the zone. If they chose to mentor lower than that to experience PvE content, fine, but keep it so that we can always find PvP and have some semblance of balance ... not just some llama group of orange-cons running from everything except solos or a partial-group of green cons. Let's actually encourage PvP'ing everywhere and at all times ... not just when you're 95% certain that you're going to win. I don't care who gets what title of how many kills people get, just implement a system that ENCOURAGES PVP instead of encouraging running and raiding. After all, it would be a PvP server ... there are 20 or more raiding servers already ... let's have one for the people who just want to PvP.

07-12-2007, 10:11 AM	#92
Amphibia Loremaster Join Date: Dec 2004 Posts: 2,256	Yonkec wrote: Do this now please. I have too many friends switching up factions that its impossible to continue interacting with them in the current ruleset. FFA is where its at. Lots of good ideas being tossed around in this thread to. Not sure I like the forced pvp mode if your attacked, perhaps it only locks you in pvp if you are within a certain level range of each other and they arent in an X4 raid while your solo etc. No Immunities/ PVP Everywhere - great! You should only be safe in your own house. Talk to everyone - An absolute must, this is a social game not a single player chess game, we need some basic forms of interaction with the players we duel besides turning to 3rd party voicecoms. Titles based on KvD - sounds great fame is a little silly with its mechanics imo No pvp gear - Ehh I personally enjoy raiding more than farming gear entirely by pvp but if others like it why not, just dont make it the end all gear, just competitive with raid drops. Shoot, remove the speech barrier, immunities and lvl restrictions and im gtg~ Bleh. I don't wanna have to raid for gear.... did that for 6 months and now I'm totally burned out. I know of many others too who have absolutely zero interest in raiding, and came here mainly to PvP. Just think about it for a moment - if everyone have to raid to get gear they can actually compete with, when will people go out to PvP? Not very often, I'd wager. So the PvP rewards probably encourage PvP a lot more than some people might think. But I'm all for giving the same thing to exiles, maybe for the double amount of tokens since they have twice as many targets. Right now they get nothing, so most stay in the cave and rarely come out outside raid hours.... I don't blame'em for that at all. The other ideas you have sound interesting, though I can imagine some people would totally hate open channels. Imagine this: Andy tells Level_60-69: Bill u [I cannot control my vocabulary] [I cannot control my vocabulary], skydive more imo Bill tells Level_60-69: you were tagged heroic so [I cannot control my vocabulary] kktnxbye Andy tells Level_60-69: i was alone and u run like a japanese schoolgirl. but whatev Andy tells Level_60-69: i dont need help btw, i can beat [I cannot control my vocabulary] liek u solo any day, so suck my [I cannot control my vocabulary] ... and I'm sure this is a weak example compared to what people would actually say if there was such a thing as open channels on PvP servers. __________________

07-12-2007, 10:54 PM	#93
TniEradani Loremaster Join Date: Dec 2006 Posts: 356	i'm sure this color scheme is going to look just dreadful /sorry Yosemite@Nagafen wrote: Anyone can group with anyone anywhere and attack anyone. YES with exceptions noted following Only groupmates and perhaps guildmates are not attackable. YES and yes on the perhaps esp You can talk to everyone. YES it really can't be that much worse than 10-19 anyways. Titles based on KvD or total kill count (thousands to hundred of thousands per rank). Something other than the apparently RNG way titles work now On death you drop all your money and treasured items. I don't like the sound of this very much, bad enough newbs learn by losing most of their money, they don't need to lose it all. No Perma immunity anywhere (not even in cities), chaos everywhere, let the players run the server. No. Cities need to be safe. Well, sort of safe. I don't know, but I don't like the thought of running from the bank to the broker and back to the bank and getting ganked. Maybe some very small business area in evey city. No Perma immunity: YES. BUT I really want some kind of very very quick camping so that I can deal with life sometimes and LD is just not an option considering the length of time it takes to restart the game. I know that some people will abuse it, but some people will abuse anything. No level restrictions. This won't work. People complain now about lvl 14 noob twinks ganking newbs, you think they'll enjoy getting ganked by lvl 70 noob twinks any more? However, lvl restrictions don't work right now. Make them based on tier instead of zone. No PVP gear, enforce raiding! NO NO NO I don't want to raid, I want to PVP PVP everywhere and anywhere, no more faction based pvp. YES YES YES YES Who's with me? Points made by others: Also, I'd like to see pvp death means you respawn in the city! Oh. This would really discourage PvP. I mean, you get killed in CL. Respawn in Qeynos. "uhhhh. I'm not running all the way back there guys. Think I'll just stay here." I'd also like to see no potions or totems I'll agree with this. Makes certain classes more valuable and promotes /invite. No recent list, except for tokens Have to think about this more. No faction, all PvP gear requires tokens of the correct tier I don't really get the difference here Exiles get no access to PvP gear because ... NO. No factions means no exiles, just a different city. auto-mentor everyone down to the PvP level of the zone. This just sounds soo good, but I just can't see how it would work. (see comments in ... some other thread) Other points: Get rid of the griffons. Move the NQ and WFP guards to right in front of the gate or just get rid of the ones outside and double the ones inside. I really hate those gate wars with everyone cowering back there. Get out here and fight. OR. Come out and help fight. Get rid of all the guards out in the wild. Let us kill those stupid npcs wandering around spamming. FFA on NPCs.

07-13-2007, 02:28 AM	#94
Yonkec Loremaster Join Date: Nov 2004 Posts: 8	Amphibia wrote: Yonkec wrote: Do this now please. I have too many friends switching up factions that its impossible to continue interacting with them in the current ruleset. FFA is where its at. Lots of good ideas being tossed around in this thread to. Not sure I like the forced pvp mode if your attacked, perhaps it only locks you in pvp if you are within a certain level range of each other and they arent in an X4 raid while your solo etc. No Immunities/ PVP Everywhere - great! You should only be safe in your own house. Talk to everyone - An absolute must, this is a social game not a single player chess game, we need some basic forms of interaction with the players we duel besides turning to 3rd party voicecoms. Titles based on KvD - sounds great fame is a little silly with its mechanics imo No pvp gear - Ehh I personally enjoy raiding more than farming gear entirely by pvp but if others like it why not, just dont make it the end all gear, just competitive with raid drops. Shoot, remove the speech barrier, immunities and lvl restrictions and im gtg~ Bleh. I don't wanna have to raid for gear.... did that for 6 months and now I'm totally burned out. I know of many others too who have absolutely zero interest in raiding, and came here mainly to PvP. Just think about it for a moment - if everyone have to raid to get gear they can actually compete with, when will people go out to PvP? Not very often, I'd wager. So the PvP rewards probably encourage PvP a lot more than some people might think. But I'm all for giving the same thing to exiles, maybe for the double amount of tokens since they have twice as many targets. Right now they get nothing, so most stay in the cave and rarely come out outside raid hours.... I don't blame'em for that at all. The other ideas you have sound interesting, though I can imagine some people would totally hate open channels. Imagine this: Andy tells Level_60-69: Bill u [I cannot control my vocabulary] [I cannot control my vocabulary], skydive more imo Bill tells Level_60-69: you were tagged heroic so [I cannot control my vocabulary] kktnxbye Andy tells Level_60-69: i was alone and u run like a japanese schoolgirl. but whatev Andy tells Level_60-69: i dont need help btw, i can beat [I cannot control my vocabulary] liek u solo any day, so suck my [I cannot control my vocabulary] ... and I'm sure this is a weak example compared to what people would actually say if there was such a thing as open channels on PvP servers. Yeah thats a good point on the raiding, the only issue now is what to do with exiles, are they going to be the "raiding" faction or will there even be exiles if we do a FFA server. I definitely can see how people will abuse the chat system if we allow cross faction talking, why not keep the chat channels separated and perhaps even ooc and shout, etc. Just allow "mutually listed friends" to talk in tells and perhaps in say.

07-13-2007, 04:05 PM	#95
Spider Loremaster Join Date: Jun 2006 Posts: 1,112	Yonkec wrote: Amphibia wrote: Yonkec wrote: Do this now please. I have too many friends switching up factions that its impossible to continue interacting with them in the current ruleset. FFA is where its at. Lots of good ideas being tossed around in this thread to. Not sure I like the forced pvp mode if your attacked, perhaps it only locks you in pvp if you are within a certain level range of each other and they arent in an X4 raid while your solo etc. No Immunities/ PVP Everywhere - great! You should only be safe in your own house. Talk to everyone - An absolute must, this is a social game not a single player chess game, we need some basic forms of interaction with the players we duel besides turning to 3rd party voicecoms. Titles based on KvD - sounds great fame is a little silly with its mechanics imo No pvp gear - Ehh I personally enjoy raiding more than farming gear entirely by pvp but if others like it why not, just dont make it the end all gear, just competitive with raid drops. Shoot, remove the speech barrier, immunities and lvl restrictions and im gtg~ Bleh. I don't wanna have to raid for gear.... did that for 6 months and now I'm totally burned out. I know of many others too who have absolutely zero interest in raiding, and came here mainly to PvP. Just think about it for a moment - if everyone have to raid to get gear they can actually compete with, when will people go out to PvP? Not very often, I'd wager. So the PvP rewards probably encourage PvP a lot more than some people might think. But I'm all for giving the same thing to exiles, maybe for the double amount of tokens since they have twice as many targets. Right now they get nothing, so most stay in the cave and rarely come out outside raid hours.... I don't blame'em for that at all. The other ideas you have sound interesting, though I can imagine some people would totally hate open channels. Imagine this: Andy tells Level_60-69: Bill u [I cannot control my vocabulary] [I cannot control my vocabulary], skydive more imo Bill tells Level_60-69: you were tagged heroic so [I cannot control my vocabulary] kktnxbye Andy tells Level_60-69: i was alone and u run like a japanese schoolgirl. but whatev Andy tells Level_60-69: i dont need help btw, i can beat [I cannot control my vocabulary] liek u solo any day, so suck my [I cannot control my vocabulary] ... and I'm sure this is a weak example compared to what people would actually say if there was such a thing as open channels on PvP servers. Yeah thats a good point on the raiding, the only issue now is what to do with exiles, are they going to be the "raiding" faction or will there even be exiles if we do a FFA server. I definitely can see how people will abuse the chat system if we allow cross faction talking, why not keep the chat channels separated and perhaps even ooc and shout, etc. Just allow "mutually listed friends" to talk in tells and perhaps in say. its obvious none of you ever played swg and never delt with the endless childish hate tells every time someone died in pvp

07-13-2007, 04:27 PM	#96
EQGu General Join Date: Nov 2004 Posts: 96	Im all for FFA!!!!!! but the immunity stuff has got to go, and YES it does discourage pvp. Basically here is what immunity does to the pvp server, some sure they go grab a drink or w/e in immunity but MOST people do the following. 1. Gank someone with all their timers evac and wait for them to come back up. 2. Evac and wait for the big mean pvpers to leave(no zone controle) 3. Sit in immunity til a contested is pulled and zerg them then evac back to immunity(not real contested pvp) 4. gives people the chance to get away from pvp at any time they wish. so yes some people may use it for a quick afk but most just hug immunity til their timers are up or they see the solo person go gank them then their group evacs and waits for the next. __________________

07-13-2007, 08:52 PM	#97
dru General Join Date: Nov 2004 Posts: 24	Yosemite@Nagafen wrote: Anyone can group with anyone anywhere and attack anyone. Only groupmates and perhaps guildmates are not attackable. You can talk to everyone. Titles based on KvD or total kill count (thousands to hundred of thousands per rank). On death you drop all your money and treasured items. No Perma immunity anywhere (not even in cities), chaos everywhere, let the players run the server. No level restrictions. No PVP gear, enforce raiding! PVP everywhere and anywhere, no more faction based pvp. Who's with me? I agree with everything except for no PVP Gear. I need to be able to get good gear from PVP. I hate raids.

07-13-2007, 09:32 PM	#98
Ba Server: Venekor Guild: Not The Face Rank: Big Nerd General Join Date: Jul 2005 Posts: 109	totally with the OP here and I know many more who would jump back into EQ2 if this came to fruition. No-Drop gear killed RZ. /signed __________________ Bring Back RZ!

07-13-2007, 11:37 PM	#99
Spider Loremaster Join Date: Jun 2006 Posts: 1,112	Baru@Venekor wrote: totally with the OP here and I know many more who would jump back into EQ2 if this came to fruition. No-Drop gear killed RZ. /signed no , no one but the leet kiddies would play a server where u risked loosing your own gear if u died

07-14-2007, 03:27 PM	#100
Ba Server: Venekor Guild: Not The Face Rank: Big Nerd General Join Date: Jul 2005 Posts: 109	seeing as the "leet kiddies" once populated an entire server, that would be enough wouldn't you think? Not to mention the so called "anti" guilds would no doubt form also. RZ pop didn't start declining until the release of LDoN. can't go through life bein' scared. __________________ Bring Back RZ!

07-14-2007, 06:07 PM	#101
Spider Loremaster Join Date: Jun 2006 Posts: 1,112	Baru@Venekor wrote: seeing as the "leet kiddies" once populated an entire server, that would be enough wouldn't you think? Not to mention the so called "anti" guilds would no doubt form also. RZ pop didn't start declining until the release of LDoN. can't go through life bein' scared. its not about being scared no one wants to play a server where they start a new toon only to get jumped by people 60 levels higher and loose all there gear thats simply we todd edd

07-14-2007, 07:07 PM	#102
Captain Apple Darkberry Loremaster Join Date: Mar 2005 Posts: 394	Spider wrote: Baru@Venekor wrote: seeing as the "leet kiddies" once populated an entire server, that would be enough wouldn't you think? Not to mention the so called "anti" guilds would no doubt form also. RZ pop didn't start declining until the release of LDoN. can't go through life bein' scared. its not about being scared no one wants to play a server where they start a new toon only to get jumped by people 60 levels higher and loose all there gear thats simply we todd edd Why do you keep arguing against something that would be voluntary...? At character creation you would see PvE, PvP Faction, PvP FFA... ...the road you choose is yours. you seem to litter this thread with statements that keep implying folks shouldn't get to choose FFA or that it should be a watered down form of FFA. Well there is already a watered down version of PvP, so that is not what is needed... ...nor wanted. I'm a carebear and crappy PvP'er, but even I hate the ease and lack of any sense of danger with the current PvP system. Would the proposed rules foster a server with trash talking, ganking, ruthless gameplay, and more teen angst than could be fathomed? Yes, it would. But the server would be full, over full even, and you would find more than just, as you put it, leet kiddies. You would find all the people who WANT a tougher gaming experience, those who hate immunity, those who want to kill anyone who talks smack in Crafting_Channel, no matter the faction. So if you don't like the idea, fine, you've said as much. But quit telling the people who do want such an option that they shouldn't get it... The most mystifying thing about the whole concept is just this... Why hasn't it been done yet?

07-14-2007, 07:31 PM	#103
Spider Loremaster Join Date: Jun 2006 Posts: 1,112	Apple@Venekor wrote: Spider wrote: Baru@Venekor wrote: seeing as the "leet kiddies" once populated an entire server, that would be enough wouldn't you think? Not to mention the so called "anti" guilds would no doubt form also. RZ pop didn't start declining until the release of LDoN. can't go through life bein' scared. its not about being scared no one wants to play a server where they start a new toon only to get jumped by people 60 levels higher and loose all there gear thats simply we todd edd Why do you keep arguing against something that would be voluntary...? At character creation you would see PvE, PvP Faction, PvP FFA... ...the road you choose is yours. you seem to litter this thread with statements that keep implying folks shouldn't get to choose FFA or that it should be a watered down form of FFA. Well there is already a watered down version of PvP, so that is not what is needed... ...nor wanted. I'm a carebear and crappy PvP'er, but even I hate the ease and lack of any sense of danger with the current PvP system. Would the proposed rules foster a server with trash talking, ganking, ruthless gameplay, and more teen angst than could be fathomed? Yes, it would. But the server would be full, over full even, and you would find more than just, as you put it, leet kiddies. You would find all the people who WANT a tougher gaming experience, those who hate immunity, those who want to kill anyone who talks smack in Crafting_Channel, no matter the faction. So if you don't like the idea, fine, you've said as much. But quit telling the people who do want such an option that they shouldn't get it... The most mystifying thing about the whole concept is just this... Why hasn't it been done yet? it hasnt been done because ITS A BAD IDEA!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! it would FAIL im sure it would be all the rage for the first month till a few power gamers grind faster hean everyone else and start pickin on thelowbies then it would go totaly down hill from there you keep insisting it would be full but look at other games with full ffa style pvp like this there EMPTY and there EMPTY for a reason

07-14-2007, 10:54 PM	#104
KodiakAsh Lord Join Date: Apr 2006 Posts: 27	Anyone can group with anyone anywhere and attack anyone. Only groupmates and perhaps guildmates are not attackable. You can talk to everyone. Titles based on KvD or total kill count (thousands to hundred of thousands per rank). On death you drop all your money and treasured items. No Perma immunity anywhere (not even in cities), chaos everywhere, let the players run the server. No level restrictions. No PVP gear, enforce raiding! PVP everywhere and anywhere, no more faction based pvp. As a person who's played just about every FFA game out there to date (since Ultima Online) there are some definitely important things that make a FFA environment good and there are other ideas that will make a FFA environment horribly bad. First off, when designing any set of FFA rules in a game you have to consider the base game mechanics. At the moment in EQ2, the games are heavily based on having towns available to players. We'll take just one (albeit large) aspect to the game: Crafting. Crafting is huge in this game. Every skill post 50 you get usually ends up being crafted by someone else. Whether it's App 4 or Adept 3 most people are roaming with those crafted skills. You can get a decent set of gear with crafting as well. However, the amount of time it takes to craft is enormous. This isn't something you do in your spare time every so often, this is something you do for endless upon endless hours here. While there are (a few) options to get away from the public, the ultimate factor here is crafting is way too reliant on towns to be effective in a FFA environment where you're attackable in the city. You will (most likely) be unable to put the time in needed to get that high and realistically no one wants to sit there and play guard duty at a trade station for 8 hours while you grind out your sage. This is just one example of the problem with the game mechanics. Things like brokers, houses, trainers, and even the basic travel system in the game is almost entirely reliant on having towns be a safe place for people to be. This not by preference in any way as it is just how the game works. You can fight that all you want, but it won't really change. Second off, when designing a consequence system you have be prepared and able to back it up without turning people away. In previous games where loot was dropped en-masse (thinking UO and AC1) loot was also ridiculously easy to obtain (so much that 12 hours wasn't needed). You didn't spend 12 hours farming in either game to watch it all go down the tubes. And even if it did go down the tubes, the loot was so easily replaced it wasn't an issue. Lost your reagents/money/etc? It took mere minutes to replace. EQ2 again, does not function like either of these games. Many things in this game that takes those 6-12 hours took either minutes to an hour in other games with similar rules to what you suggest. Killing people is one thing, but killing people's time is another. I'm all for FFA PvP even dry looting, if the game mechanics can support it. Unfortunately EQ2's game mechanics really do not support it, only a mild version of it (a bit above what you loose now in PvP). So a bit harsher drop system would be in order, say a few treasured items each death and coin, but entire looting of everything treasured is just not going to happen. Another great example is your raiding example. I know many individuals who do not want to have to raid for gear. Maybe occasionally but really not a full time thing like in WOW. The PvP gear gives them a good alternative to that, especially on a server that's supposed to be all about PvP! That is, ultimately, what I see is the flaw in your system. While a decent set of rules, there are many game mechanics that grate against the rule set. The other issue is that the rules are geared for a more "hardcore" style of approach. As someone else mentioned, this will just pull the "hardcore" gamers off the PvP servers splitting the already decently low populations into the ground. You may get a few individuals who will try it out, but ultimately since they have to raid (it's enforced.) and the ruleset is so heavily geared against the even semi-casual/hardcore crowd that you will get less people than anticipated. Even still a lot of the FFA crowd are very finicky about their games, so if the game-mechanics are bad they will leave within a month or two after coming to EQ2 to check out the FFA. The idea is to create a system that caters to the most amount of individuals that would be willing to play the server. The more extreme you make a system (either towards faction PvP or FFA PvP) you will ultimately end up loosing potential players on that server.

07-15-2007, 12:00 AM	#105
Ba Server: Venekor Guild: Not The Face Rank: Big Nerd General Join Date: Jul 2005 Posts: 109	Spider wrote: Baru@Venekor wrote: seeing as the "leet kiddies" once populated an entire server, that would be enough wouldn't you think? Not to mention the so called "anti" guilds would no doubt form also. RZ pop didn't start declining until the release of LDoN. can't go through life bein' scared. its not about being scared no one wants to play a server where they start a new toon only to get jumped by people 60 levels higher and loose all there gear thats simply we todd edd Just make it to where only players within a 4 level range either way can loot then. And not all the loot just single item loot, you choose which. Hell I'll even take a straight up pvp level limit. Just put in Item loot. Jesus just make RZ for EQ2 ok! And I'm not sure if you recall (wait I am sure you don't) but the all item loot, permadeath EQ1 server worked out quite well. So you don't know it won't work. Now go refill that half empty glass of yours. __________________ Bring Back RZ!

07-15-2007, 01:36 AM	#106
Amphibia Loremaster Join Date: Dec 2004 Posts: 2,256	Apple@Venekor wrote: Spider wrote: Baru@Venekor wrote: seeing as the "leet kiddies" once populated an entire server, that would be enough wouldn't you think? Not to mention the so called "anti" guilds would no doubt form also. RZ pop didn't start declining until the release of LDoN. can't go through life bein' scared. its not about being scared no one wants to play a server where they start a new toon only to get jumped by people 60 levels higher and loose all there gear thats simply we todd edd Why do you keep arguing against something that would be voluntary...? At character creation you would see PvE, PvP Faction, PvP FFA... ...the road you choose is yours. you seem to litter this thread with statements that keep implying folks shouldn't get to choose FFA or that it should be a watered down form of FFA. Well there is already a watered down version of PvP, so that is not what is needed... ...nor wanted. I'm a carebear and crappy PvP'er, but even I hate the ease and lack of any sense of danger with the current PvP system. Would the proposed rules foster a server with trash talking, ganking, ruthless gameplay, and more teen angst than could be fathomed? Yes, it would. But the server would be full, over full even, and you would find more than just, as you put it, leet kiddies. You would find all the people who WANT a tougher gaming experience, those who hate immunity, those who want to kill anyone who talks smack in Crafting_Channel, no matter the faction. So if you don't like the idea, fine, you've said as much. But quit telling the people who do want such an option that they shouldn't get it... The most mystifying thing about the whole concept is just this... Why hasn't it been done yet? I think it would be cool with one server with a little tougher PvP environment, but to open a new server now in this particular game? I honestly hope that won't happen. Reason? I can't imagine where all those players would come from... except some from Venekor, Vox and Nagafen. And perhaps a few from the blue servers, but most who really wants to PvP have already rolled on one of the mentioned PvP servers, I think. If no transfers to this new server, which is typical for new servers - there would be an issue with having to reroll AGAIN.... and I think most people are interested in doing that only so many times. Most of us already had to do reroll once, and frankly this is one of the reasons why PvP servers aren't more popular than they are. They came too late, and now many people on blue servers can't bring themselves to reroll again. Maybe this would be a better solution: Make one of the existing server a little tougher. Not necessarily full FFA, but perhaps no permanent immunity, no safety on docks and open PvP range in most zones. Or at least much wider level range limits in most zones. As for which server it should be, well honestly I think best choice then would be Nagafen - as most of the hardcore PvP'ers are already here. Venekor would keep today's ruleset. Vox is an exchange server, so I'm keeping that out of this. PS: Losing attuned gear in PvP? Not going to happen ever, I think. They made all gear attunable for other reasons than PvP looooong before the first PvP server was launched (if I remember correctly), and changing this back now would screw up tons of things... like the economy. __________________