KOS AA changes with upcoming GU

[Ozgood]

Bard

• Strength 3 - Bladeturn: Increase avoidance skill bonuses from 2% to 2.5% per rank.
• Agility 3 - Wayfarer's Watch: Also grants a chance at avoiding non-direct area effect spells by 1% per rank.
• Agility 4 - Poison Concoction: Increased total tick count from 5 to 7, increased damage per tick.
• Agility 5 - Vanishing Act: The next attack made against any ally in stealth will be avoided.
• Stamina 3 - Skald's Defense: Also increases doubleattack by 10% at rank 1, and +4% for every rank thereafter.
• Stamina 4 - Fortissimo: Grants your group melee and ranged doubleattack at 1% per rank, and 2% per rank for allies that have a shield equipped.
• Stamina 5 - Shield Focus: Renamed to Lend Shielding: Allows you to block the next attack that would strike an ally.
• Wisdom 2 - Harmonizing Shot: Renamed to Messenger's Letter: It now increases hate towards the enemy's current target.
• Wisdom 4 - Allegro: Increased casting speed bonus from 0.9% to 1% per rank.
• Intelligence 3 - Minstrel's Aria: Increase skill bonus from 7% to 8% per rank.
• Intelligence 4 - Minstrel's Melody: Increased Haste/DPS bonus from 5% to 7% per rank.
• Intelligence 5 - Coin Toss: Renamed to Heroic Storytelling: Increases the effectiveness of all heroic opportunites in the group by 50%.

Thoughts?

AGI 4 might be the DPS boost we wanted, STA 4 looks promising.  AGI 5 looks PvP oriented but still doesn't make a lot of sense to me.  WIS 2 is confusing...  INT 5 COULD be nasty...

Thoughts?

[Ozgood]

Stamina 4 - Fortissimo: Grants your group melee and ranged doubleattack at 1% per rank, and 2% per rank for allies that have a shield equipped.

Hmm, wonder if this means that if you did decide to stay duel wield that your Double attack % could be 8%?

[Giland]

wis 2 looks kind of like one of the ranger abilities. Basically, the damage done by the attack goes to the person who is currently the target of the mob that was attacked. Think hate transfer for just one attack, and only to the person who is the current target of the mob gets it.

[Lornick]

I have to say that these changes are making me take a serious look at the stamina and int lines.  The int line really wasn't bad before.  But it just didn't have enough oomph to make me want to give up dktm.  The final ability to increase groups effectiveness with HO's really has me curious.  The thought of getting the rare scout HO enhanced by 50% has me drooling.  And with the change to macro's it is super easy to tie the HO openers to our chainers and with our bardly decrease in recast for the HO opener we can chain out HO's like no other increasing our odds of seeing it.  I'll definately be doing some experimenting when this goes live.

[Unwise]

For my own benefit I am just writing up a list of advantages this gives us per line:

Strength:

•  Extra 4% to avoidance skills (~ 1.5 parry?)

Agility:

•  Up to 8% chance to dodge AE
•  Increase poison damage by over 40%
•  1 x immunity while in stealth

Stamina:

•  -2% at least, personal Double Attack
•  Be aware our Double Attack will be worse than it appears. You do not have the points to buy 8 in both Skald's Defence and Fortissimo.
•  8% chance to double attack for most melee
•  16% chance to double attack for most warriors/crusaders
•  Allows you to block the next attack that would strike an ally.

Wisdom:

•  Ranged hate gain for your tank, good for ranged raid fights.
•  0.8% faster casting speed

Intelligence:

•  8% extra skill bonus
•  16% extra DPS buff (~5 DPS)
•  Increase HOs by 50%. Many people think this means doubling the effect. It should mean 100 damage will become 150.

 None of these changes seem too earth shattering to me. Its funny that the stamina line has probably become less attractive to soloists as it just lowered their DPS. Our better lines have hardly changed at all.

[Sferoflex]

Unwise wrote:

For my own benefit I am just writing up a list of advantages this gives us per line:

Strength:

•  Extra 4% to avoidance skills (~ 1.5 parry?)

Agility:

•  Up to 8% chance to dodge AE
•  Increase poison damage by over 40%
•  1 x immunity while in stealth

Stamina:

•  -2% at least, personal Double Attack
•  Be aware our Double Attack will be worse than it appears. You do not have the points to buy 8 in both Skald's Defence and Fortissimo.
•  8% chance to double attack for most melee
•  16% chance to double attack for most warriors/crusaders
•  Allows you to block the next attack that would strike an ally.

Wisdom:

•  Ranged hate gain for your tank, good for ranged raid fights.
•  0.8% faster casting speed

Intelligence:

•  8% extra skill bonus
•  16% extra DPS buff (~5 DPS)
•  Increase HOs by 50%. Many people think this means doubling the effect. It should mean 100 damage will become 150.

 None of these changes seem too earth shattering to me. Its funny that the stamina line has probably become less attractive to soloists as it just lowered their DPS. Our better lines have hardly changed at all.

 I have to disagree on the highlighted section... Most soloists don't take the endline Stamina ability (or I didn't at anyrate)

with a Stamina spec of 4-4-8-8 you end up with a 62% dbl attack (6% higher than we previously had) if you're primarily soloing there is no need for the endline

but in the event that you wanted the endline you could go with...

4-4-8-6-1 which gives you 56% personal dbl attack (same as we had before) and 6%/18% group double attack

or

4-4-6-8-1 which gives you 54% personal and a 8%/24% group dbl attack

Really if you look at it ALL the Bard KoS AA lines were improved... that's worlds better than some of the other classes have it.

[Mildavyn]

Strength 3 - Bladeturn: Increase avoidance skill bonuses from 2% to 2.5% per rank. Give a total of 12% increase to avoidance songs...still garbage, but atleast it doesn't smell as bad.

Agility 3 - Wayfarer's Watch: Also grants a chance at avoiding non-direct area effect spells by 1% per rank. 8% AE avoidance... not that great in my opinion. Those who want AE avoidance will take the STR line.   Agility 4 - Poison Concoction: Increased total tick count from 5 to 7, increased damage per tick. Potentially a nice increase. The extra ticks are a waste as the spell over-writes itself well before the 5 ticks are up anyways.

Agility 5 - Vanishing Act: The next attack made against any ally in stealth will be avoided. Good for PvP, cant see much use other than that though.

Stamina 3 - Skald's Defense: Also increases doubleattack by 10% at rank 1, and +4% for every rank thereafter. 8% block and 38% double attack when using a sheild. Not too bad. Depending on your supply of 1handers (soon to be HUGE) this could be very nice

Stamina 4 - Fortissimo: Grants your group melee and ranged doubleattack at 1% per rank, and 2% per rank for allies that have a shield equipped. 16% w/ sheild and 8% without. I'm guessing this only applies to your group if YOU have a sheild equiped. 16% +38% from STA3 give the bard 54% double attack. 2% less than current.

Stamina 5 - Shield Focus: Renamed to Lend Shielding: Allows you to block the next attack that would strike an ally. Is this BLOCK the next attack, or intercept? Block = sweet. intercept = not so good.

Wisdom 2 - Harmonizing Shot: Renamed to Messenger's Letter: It now increases hate towards the enemy's current target. Somewhat offsets the hate changes to other classes. 4 bards in a raid basically giving the tank 4 extra taunts.

Wisdom 4 - Allegro: Increased casting speed bonus from 0.9% to 1% per rank. Meh.

Intelligence 3 - Minstrel's Aria: Increase skill bonus from 7% to 8% per rank. This is an insane bonus for PvP toons, just a nice bonus for PvE though.

Intelligence 4 - Minstrel's Melody: Increased Haste/DPS bonus from 5% to 7% per rank. 7% per rank = 56% increase for 8pts. this will boost group haste/DPS up to around 45.

Intelligence 5 - Coin Toss: Renamed to Heroic Storytelling: Increases the effectiveness of all heroic opportunites in the group by 50%. This looks like a nice choice as well. Some of those group HOs can do 10k damage... now 15k.

Overall: We lost 2% double attack on the STA line, got a de-taunt bow attack which most people will barely miss changed into a taunt and we picked up a whole pile of bonuses (bonii?) Bards made out like bandits on this,  maybe we'll be somewhat equal in PvP now?

[Priestbane]

Yeah, by comparison I think we got the gem of the modifications.

Sferoflex, are you seeing something different on test?  Your numbers don't seem to match what the descriptions provide.  A bard with 8 points in Defense and Fortissimo (STA) would have a total of 54% double attack by having a round shield equipped:  10+(7x4)=38, 2 x 8 = 16; additively 54%.  Where are you seeing different numbers that add up to 56 and 62?  And 18% double attack for grouped members?  I see 8 and 16.

EDIT: and while yes, soloers who went down STA end up with at *least* 2% double attack loss, the line plays out sooo much better for groups now, that I still think it's an overall win.

[juz]

Had a long reply but yeah, what Sorschae just said lol

[Sferoflex]

*facepalm*

You're right about the  % loss.

This is what I get for posting on the forums without a few cups of coffee in me

But still... I do think we got it better than many of the classes.

[Btau]

for thoes that dont pay much attention to their HO's, theres a HO that has potential to up to 2 million dmg currently, mind u its rare, but still, something to not be overlooked. this is started by a scout, along with the other rare massive buffs, debuffs and the like. so with the end line for int will then have the potential to do a 4mil hit, even the basic scout dmg ho will do around 8-900. if u know how to chain everything u can use an HO every 5 seconds. this not only keeps up swindlers luck, which alows u a much greater chance to hit a mob, but it adds a little bit a dps. so int line will now truely be the best line to maximize grp dps

[Korpo]

Btau wrote:

for thoes that dont pay much attention to their HO's, theres a HO that has potential to up to 2 million dmg currently, mind u its rare, but still, something to not be overlooked. this is started by a scout, along with the other rare massive buffs, debuffs and the like. so with the end line for int will then have the potential to do a 4mil hit, even the basic scout dmg ho will do around 8-900. if u know how to chain everything u can use an HO every 5 seconds. this not only keeps up swindlers luck, which alows u a much greater chance to hit a mob, but it adds a little bit a dps. so int line will now truely be the best line to maximize grp dps

Increasing a HO that hits for 2mil by 50% would results in a HO hitting for 3mil, not 4mil.

[Killque]

Vanishing act is currently broken.

 Casting it in combat does nothing.

Ive tried turning off autoattack manually and casting it... nothing..

This ability is worthless to use with our stealth attack, which I was really hoping for when I selected it.

[phlebas]

What would the best dps setup be with the changes?  I am currently wis/str but wouldnt mind giving dps a shot with the new aa respec.

[Hazeroth]

Agility 5 - Vanishing Act: The next attack made against any ally in stealth will be avoided. This is what I'm getting out of this discription. It doesn't say "also" so Vanishing Act, will no longer be a group stealth. It sounds like it will be is a raid wide (it says Ally, not group member) one shot Attack (or AoE) avoidance for all scouts stealthed, either the next time they stealth or will only take effect if they are already stealthed when it's cast. Sounds like a really nice AoE avoid for the raid. Can anyone on Test confirm?

[Torrin]

Been playing with a dirge testing the new stuff on PvPTest, since i didn't /testcopy and just made a toon i kinda got screwed. 1) they only gave me 70AAs not 100AAs (not a biggie really). 2) they gave out KOS relic armor, 1 dual wield weapon and the Qeynos Kilij as a one-hander.. no Shield. Despite those setbacks I've been playing with the AAs..  It doesn't seem Agi line is all the wonderful, actually it rather sucks.  Bump is nice for a fast stealth, the poison concoction doesn't do jack to anyone, The Parry is really nice though.  Vanishing Act doesn't seem to do anything in PvP.. I don't appear to go into stealth, and I don't dodge any attacks.  So either it's broken or i'm missing something here.  Used it against an assassin, bruiser, shadowknight, ranger so far and hasn't worked once yet. The Sta line actually sounds a bit over the top and will be the new AA line of choice hands down. Think about it.  Sta- small health boost / health regen.. Knockback / Stun ability.. Increased chance to block with a roundshield as well as double attack with a one-hander.. group-wide increased chance to double attack, extra bonus for having a shield equipped..  and if you get the end line you can shield anyone in your group or raid from 1 attack while also shielding yourself from 1 attack completely..  Where is the downside here? isn't one unless you're stubborn and stick with dual wielders. However with the upcoming weapon changes, the best Dual Wield weapons will become the best 1-handed weapons so why not use sword & board then? Sure the Bard double attack won't be anything near other classes, but geez you're buffing your own double attack nicely plus buffing everyone else in the group's even more. I know our typical dps build, being a Q-only guild involves; Dirge, Monk, Berserker, Ranger, Swash, Healer or 2 Rangers in place of Swash or Monk.  that's increasing the double attack for all of those.. Swash is already high, it gets even higher.. Ranger gets ranged double attack increase which is, i believe, the only place outside of EoF Set and Double Shot to get double attack on ranged..  Monks already attack fast, now they have a chance to hit twice as well.. and berserker geez they'll tear things apart. Then the last ability, Raid-wide.  So that means the Bards in the Raid can act as pseudo- tanks by popping Lend Shielding when the MT gets a little low. be like their own personal intercept, except nobody takes damage. So now for my dirge i'm torn on Sta/Wis Wis/Int or Sta/Int..

[juz]

The original Vanishing Act never puts you in stealth while in combat but does put the rest of the group into stealth. So not putting you into stealth while in combat is not a bug. However if it's not putting the people in your group then something is wrong.

[naMessiah]

Does Lend Shielding... 1) Block 1 attack for 1 random ally (= first one to get hit)? 2) Block 1 attack for 1 ally of your choice? 3) Block 1 attack for everyone in the group/raid?

[Borias]

This sounds really interesting, might be time to dust off the old Ferox Stony Wing and start to rethink a new spec.

[Mildavyn]

All comments come from the perspective of a PvP troubador. (yes, we have the same KoS AAs as your dirges) 

Torrin wrote:

It doesn't seem Agi line is all the wonderful, actually it rather sucks.  Bump is nice for a fast stealth, the poison concoction doesn't do jack to anyone, The Parry is really nice though. 

I've just tested this line myself. Vanishing act doesn't appear to work at all when in-combat. Also, the +parry AA (AGI3) is only giving 1% chance to avoid AEs, rather than the full 8% (1 per point). The increase to the poison proc was so small i didnt even notice it.

I'm going to be going with INT/STA or INT/WIS after this update. The STA line looks to be the melee DPS improving line, however, INT is a large boost to the haste/DPS song as well. And I love INT because it boosts Dove Song to +46 to casting skills and +93 to focus.

Losing the WIS line (while i was testing was annoying... I almost felt nekid without DKtM and Allegro... my buff bar was somehow... empty.

The STR line hasn't really changed. The good parts (AE avoidance and the +STR/STA/AGI for the stats buff) are still the same. The increase to defence/parry is still crap, it just doesn't smell quite so bad.

The STA line is VERY nice now. The final ability is 100% block on next hit. you can cast it on yourself, or your target. It's not an intercede, it completely blocks the next hit. No one takes ANY damage at all.

WIS is astill good, and leaving it will be painful...

[thecynic315]

a screen shot from test for all of yall

[Unwise]

Thanks for the info.

Can we please get a screenshot of Lending Shield?

I just really want to know what the recast is on it, can you remember? That will be what makes or breaks the ability.

I love the fact it can be cast on yourself. I also like the fact that Fortissomo can be used even when you are not using a shield youseld. I was hoping that they would allow 16% chance for ranged attacks while using a shield too. I guess they correctly realised we would glue rangers to the dirges if that happened.

I want to see how Lending Shield and Vanishing Act compare when VA is working properly. If Lending Shield does not have a much better recast, I think VA may be the better abililty.

Part of me was hoping they would nerf Bladedance (sacrilege I know) so that raiding dirges would be free to pick 2 AA lines for themselves. Rather than one being required.

  Just for the record, I love the changes, we made out like bandits. I think they are all nice, but not particularly game changing. My only disappointment is the personal double attack thing. We will be significantly lowering our DPS to use the STA line now I feel.

[thecynic315]

Here ya go

[Mildavyn]

Unwise wrote:

Just for the record, I love the changes, we made out like bandits. I think they are all nice, but not particularly game changing. My only disappointment is the personal double attack thing. We will be significantly lowering our DPS to use the STA line now I feel.

If you already HAD the STA line, then all you are losing is 2% double attack. You're gaining more than you lost if you alreayd had the line. If you didn't... well i think the double attack is going to be worth more than 7.5% crits.

[XHousedog]

So whats your experience on the testserver, do I actually get a DPS increase when I choose STA Line over the WIS Line now (when using Dualwields). If there is a DPS increase or at least same DPS when I use STA over WIS I can have the additional benefit of switching between Dualwields and Onehander with Shield according to the situation (group, raid, solo). Tydus

[thecynic315]

XHousedog wrote:

So whats your experience on the testserver, do I actually get a DPS increase when I choose STA Line over the WIS Line now (when using Dualwields). If there is a DPS increase or at least same DPS when I use STA over WIS I can have the additional benefit of switching between Dualwields and Onehander with Shield according to the situation (group, raid, solo). Tydus

Havent been able to do any real hard testing yet but heres what Ill try, that toon is currently speced WIS/INT ( sorta how Im specked on Live) so Ill use him to see what its like vs say 100 mobs in SoS entry way. Ill create another test toon spec him say INT/STA kill a similar 100 or so mobs in SoS entry way to get the comparison. Ill run this guy both with a dual wield setup and bord-sword (well actualy its more of a 1h peirce). Now heres the fun part if youve never been beta buffed, they give out one(1) GDoH and one(1) Kilji you get no shield and no second dual weild weapon. Oh and I forgot to mention the PvP test server where Im looking at these things has NOT gotten the weapon changes yet, so there actualy are dual weilds, if the weapon changes get patched in while Im testing this out, I will restart my tests or my results will be skewed. This will all have to wait till after work today though.

[Jal]

Just remember the dual wield changes dont go live with the AA changes.  So basing the output on current setups(i.e. existing DW) is probably better.

[Borias]

Hm, fortissimo doesn't give kite shield wearers extra double attack?

[thecynic315]

Borias@Venekor wrote:

Hm, fortissimo doesn't give kite shield wearers extra double attack?

Just bugged and did feedback on that. update on testing just finished 100 fights with INT/WIS now for the STA/INT test 1st dual weild then sword bord the joys of test I have a GDoH and a Sharpened Chitin Blade for my dual tests. and a Kilji and a lvl 34 round shield for testing horray for the broker!

[thecynic315]

1st round of tests compleate Constants for this round: Weapons GDoH and a Sharpened Chitin Blade Buffs LotD, Brias, Rianas, Harls, Tombs, Death EoF AAs 5-shourd 5-brias 5-tombs 5-CoB LoTD 3-Garsins 1-Verliens I fought only in SoS:Mouth of the Scantum. 100 fights per test. 1st test was WIS(4 - 4 - 8 - 6 - 1) INT(4 - 6 - 4 - 8 - 1 ) Total DPS and break down as follows 2nd test was Dual Weild with STA(4 - 4 - 8 - 8 - 1) INT(4 - 6 - 4 - 8 - 1) STR(1) Total DPS and break down as follows Test PVP was broght down at 1910 GMT -5 when its back up Ill do sword/bord STA/INT same as above. then Ill test STA/WIS